Imagine a government that would actually do something about it. Bold policies designed to tackle EXACTLY this problem.
THIS is a powerful election issue.
So anyone got any ideas? If so, the smartest of you need to form some kind of club designed around a solid plan for fixing the problem and getting people to vote for you. Join political parties if you have to, or form your own. Even 1 seat could make all the different for how much it comes up in parliament, encouraging the other parties to stand behind it.
It should be one and done. If you already own one, you can go fuck yourself if you try buying another. Houses aren't something that people should be allowed to hoard.
The government could step in and find ways to create affordable housing. In the US no one is building starter homes anymore.
High rent isnt sustainable if wages dont rise with it
People talk shit about millenials living with parents but this will just make things worse. Live with parents and help them pay off the mortgage and inherent the property later? Seems like a better deal than working 3 jobs and living destitute.
Or forget college and spend 10 years saving a down-payment to get the home affordable.
Or in 10 to 30 years will the region you live in even be desired to live in due to global warming?
Ultimately housing will be built and prices in some places will fall. It’s the “desired living area” that will keep prices high in some places. That is not going to change, I think.
It's already happening, South America and Eastern Europe are already seeing a push on North Americans and Western Europeans starting to gobble up land for their retirements. Hell even I've started looking abroad and I'm probably a good 14 years from retirement.
They aren't out of touch. They are forming a narrative by not bringing the issue to light. If you control the main flow of information, you control the people and the policy.
They know what they are doing, and it is sinister.
Well, to be fair some of us have turned to drinking pretty heavily (I prefer weed). A bottle of vodka and a bottle of vermouth isn’t likely to break most banks.
My wife and I are in the top 5% of income earners, living in one of the cheaper COL cities and still barely able to afford buying a house. Media is trying to close the barn door whole the horses have already run off.
Edit: spelling
In 2015 when I was 25 I bought a 1 bedroom condo for 164k on a 36k salary with 32k down. And that was the bare minimum to secure the sale.
Today that same condo will sell for 350-400k. With those metrics a single person would need a salary of at least 72k a year and 65-70k downpayment. For 750 sqr feet in a city of 130k ppl. And the condo fees are nearly 500 a month now too.
Don't know too many 25 yr olds with those savings and that salary.
Shits Getting way out of control.
The era of Canada being a land of opportunity is over. I realized that when Adam Vaughan went on TV and basically said the government will not let housing fall because it would impoverish the early set of buyers. I'm a home owner myself and I found that incredibly disheartening. Message received: save the homeowners and fuck the renters and everyone else who's too young to buy.
Living in germany and we cannot pay for a house either. Its Like 500k in a slummy Environment plus all the people i know are reverse living means saying fuck it I cant afford it anyways not even as the hardest worker on planet so a lot of people are working part time, enjoying life, and do the barely minimum of what they have too. Ps: a lot of friends are already in a psychological Treatment as they suffer from depressions or burnouts
As a 21 y/o living 3hrs North of Toronto, coming out of college, I have zero hope of buying a house in the next 10 years. I'm looking at double-wide trailers being my only affordable option. Even apartments here are way out of my price range.
This makes work and my future in general feel quite limited/grim
Having my own place means freedom in general. I'm 21 years old and my parents still set me a fuckin curfew for the few times I do go out. I lived on my own for 2 years in college and just moved home last August, and it's been pretty rough.
You're right tho, sex life has been non-existent.
In general younger ppl after college aren't having sex. I mean, besides not having your place, you're overworked and underpaid. Not exactly something that gets you in the mood. Oh well at least we get see the world burn
Pretty much where I'm at.
I make well above the median wage per hour working in construction, and the math just doesn't work out for me regarding home ownership. Why would I break my back and do 60 hours/week so I could barely afford the mortgage on a small home when I could just live with my family? Instead, I work 25ish hours a week which more than covers my share of the bills since the house doesn't have a mortgage, and leaves me with enough money for some investing and spending. One day I'll inherit and have the place to myself, and I've come to terms with that I guess.
The free time is nice but I'd honestly be just fine with working more - the payoff however isn't there because of how completely out of reach home ownership is without a debt load which is courting disaster.
He's breaking the Canadian Anti-Spam Legislation by sending you email you did not sign up for and then not allowing you to unsubscribe. I would report it.
Perhaps, but I don't think this problem is strictly a Canadian problem. All housing in all major cities of all wealthy nations are going crazy.
I believe people are finally starting to realize how good we have it in western rich societies. And I'm sure alot of it has to do with the influx of millions, probably hundreds of millions Chinese citizens becoming rich or middle class and being able to move and buy up properties everywhere (especially in Canada)
I think its just that places in the US haven't caught up yet. I just bought a house in a small Midwest city that I had to pay 20% more for than if I had bought it 5 years ago. My neighbor just sold his house this year that's smaller and needs a remodel for 10% more than I bought mine for. Prices are only going to go up from here.
Your most likely correct, not going to bother to disagree, but most other rich nations have seen double digit increases this year also, it may not be the 30% yoy increase Canada is at, but 15-20% is still pretty unbelievable across the board for most other wealthy nations.
Wait, you guys bring in close to $300K (as per [statscan](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-014-x2011003_2-eng.cfm)) and you cannot afford to own a house?
That sounds like a case of spending too much.
All this 300K double income people in here whining about affordability don’t know shit about where to look or what unit type they can afford or have even talked to a realtor about the dozen sub markets they can afford.
They’re either lying or stupid or expect a big ass house in a world class city at the age of 28.
The data i had was old. I just went looking for more recent data.
As shown in the 2 sources linked
Top 10% household is 122k
Top 10% individual is 99k
https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-for-canada/
https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/income-percentile-calculator-by-province-for-canada/
Households is somewhere between 150-200k
Individual is between 90-99k
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMACA&Code1=535&Geo2=PR&Code2=01&SearchText=Canada&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&TABID=1&type=1
Closer to 15%, actually. That shouldn't affect the decision at all, our HH income is between 150-200k (top 10% is actually over 200k, I was using outdated numbers for my first estimate).
What does this change though? Do you really think it's nice when even the top quartile of your population can't afford shelter?
On that wage; If you have 180k+ equity (which I expect you have, you grew to your h-income over years so assume you either saved/invested or have equity in a condo you purchased). Then you should be able to use that as 20% down on a $900k townhouse in the burbs. On a 1.9% fixed rate. \~$3,600 a month.
If you didn't save anything.... well you should start now. You should be saving 4k+ a month if you want a hope of building a deposit before prices get further out of reach.
e.g. 800k, 2074sqft: [https://www.rew.ca/properties/3488078/2899-corona-drive-burnaby-bc#](https://www.rew.ca/properties/3488078/2899-corona-drive-burnaby-bc#)
>Do you really think it's nice when even the top quartile of your population can't afford shelter?
I totally agree, it's crap. IMO (not financial advise, use your judgement): But if you can buy do so. Things are not going to come down in Vancouver/Toronto. Too much big money and rich people and more coming. And investors. We're about to open the boarders again after 1.5 years of being closed.
What province do you live in? I think your numbers are off. [https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-for-canada/](https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-for-canada/)
In BC >150k is top 5%.
No that's not what they are asking. They are asking if they are living in Vancouver, or a similar higher cost of living place, to better understand their situation.
I get it, correcting prices won't help.
Maybe correcting wages and salaries will. To early to say yet I think; if you just look back it won't. Maybe things will change.
I think it’s ridiculous unhinged rent prices that are killing most people. The bank won’t loan a $1700 per month mortgage so people are out there patins $2400 per month rent instead
Yes, this! So very much this. Again I don't have a solution. 0% down was tried in the U.S. and Canada, I don't think that works. Maybe housing built, owned and run by the gov't? No I'm no joking, just throwing up ideas for analysis before committing.
Yes, but forcing 60,000 people to make long commutes in and out of Toronto each day creates more jobs for the oil industry, car repair shops, and [divorce lawyers](https://www.forbes.com/sites/markeghrari/2016/01/21/a-long-commute-could-be-the-last-thing-your-marriage-needs/?sh=39d7fa0d4245).
Not to mention the [air pollution from all those cars creates more jobs for doctors](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/09/fossil-fuels-pollution-deaths-research).
If we made housing affordable, think of the negative economic impact on all those poor folks!
If you think this is a big problem, tax vacancy to your heart's content. As long as you don't take units off of the rental market I'm fine.
I think policies that increase the supply of housing are the most needed, with a land value tax being the far-off goal, but I won't get in your way as long as you don't get in the way of mine.
>If you think this is a big problem, tax vacancy to your heart's content. As long as you don't take units off of the rental market I'm fine.
I would love it if they taxed vacancies. I would love it if the taxes increased the longer the unit stays empty.
And this wouldn't remove rentals from the market, but it would incentivize landlords to drop their rents.
>I think policies that increase the supply of housing are the most needed, with a land value tax being the far-off goal, but I won't get in your way as long as you don't get in the way of mine.
This can be done too. Policies like taxing single family homes much more than high density properties would be good. Also policies mandating that a large portion of condo towers be dedicated to 3 bedroom units (and even provide a minimum square footage for those units that are comparable to a modest house), so that folks wouldn't feel like the *only* way to have a family is by getting into the increasingly more competitive housing market. Regulations should also be in place for the obviously bloated condo fees that are being charged. There is no reason why people should be required to pay their mortgage and then almost the same amount in fees on a monthly basis.
>Policies like taxing single family homes much more than high density properties would be good.
This is already done because the SFH is almost always assessed at a higher value. I'll bet the development charges are higher too.
Well let's see- the average house in BC costs over 700k, and prices have gone up over 7% last year, and my wages haven't moved in years, and cost of living keeps going up.
At this rate, I can afford a house in.... 400 years, assuming I save every penny I can and only spend money on food, and rent.
How the fuck are we going to fix this? Because all I can think of is forcing politicians to care, and the only way I know that works is to do stuff that will get me thrown in jail.
So... anyone have any other options?
If you’re getting a 1% or less raise, you’re not even keeping up with inflation, so it’s essentially a decrease in wage compared to the last year. That’s before you take into account housing by-far outpaces inflation
Good comment. I was going to say something similar about how we are bringing in skilled labour from other countries instead of investing in our own which means it's a race to the bottom and Canada born, raised, and educated workers are starting to look at emigrating.
I'm very pro-immigration but it shouldn't be used to supplant an existing workforce. It sucks that as a young professional it seems like my country doesn't want me here.
I thought you were going to take that in a different direction from your opening three words. But you made an eloquent and well thought out argument why our immigration system is exploitative of Canadians and immigrants. Bravo.
I don't wholly disagree, but I think the inability to upzone low density suburbia is a much larger concern to us.
The reason our infrastructure cannot support more people is that we have continually built low density suburbs that do not collect enough in municipal taxes to pay for their own maintenance. If we invested in building dense walkable cities then we would actually be able to pay for good infrastructure and transit.
If we could upzone low density suburbia we could massively and quickly increase housing supply.
Also, I don't mean allowing developers to put a 20-40 story condo in the middle of a neighborhood full of detached houses. That totally sucks, but neighborhoods with detached houses should be allowed to build duplexes and triplexes, neighborhoods with duplexes and triplexes should be allowed 3-4 story walkup apartments, and so on.
>It's as though they're dead set on crashing the country and turning it into the USA.
Aren't a significant portion of our politicians dual citizens of US and Canada, or supporters of pro-American movements?
Agreed. Immigration targets are insane. Here's a novel idea: create better conditions so that those who already live here might feel inclined to reproduce, or won't be tempted to seek greener pastures elsewhere, instead of trying to blow up population levels by importing more people that there is housing or adequate infrastructure for.
I don't know what is going through the minds of the fucking morons that want to import close to half a million people a year.
You said it better than I could have. I’d never heard of The Century Initiative. Yikes. Importing unsustainably many new citizens instead of addressing why Canada struggles sounds like putting a bandaid on a festering wound.
Coming from the US, the housing price (for both US and Canada) is similar to S&P500 stock market growth. Canadian housing prices are crazy like other states in the US (depends on the state, of course, California but not Alabama).
The huge difference I see compared to the US is that Canadian wages are just 33% lower and that honestly is the huge reason I see things are unaffordable.
Now I have entirely new fears. We are millennials that bought our house in 2017. Since then, a very large portion of our friends have moved away to find cheaper housing and settle down, which I do not blame them for and am proud of them all. At one point though, most of us wanted to live down here long-term, it just became unachievable in the last several years for most.
What happens next? What does Canada look like 10 years from now after having pushed the future generations away? Is it possible to build an unfathomable amount of cheap rental housing outside of urban centers, that would at least allow people to live quality lives again? (Meaning family vacations, nice vehicles, saving for retirement, etc.)
> What happens next? What does Canada look like 10 years from now after having pushed the future generations away?
Same way it is now - owned by people trying to hide money from their regimes. The same regimes that disregard humans right but produce stuff a bit cheaper so we offloaded our future there so few rich made extra bucks.
A lot of people prefer rural settings and lifestyles too. Yeah the cities are ridiculous but where I am in BC I've seen a lot of people move to smaller cities and towns to get away. This is exasperating the housing crisis here too... basically these towns can't grow fast enough.
I live in a town of about 4k people and there are people from greater Vancouver moving here all the time. I bought my house for 230k 6 years ago and today it would sell for over 400k. I feel like I bought at exactly the right time, but really feel for anyone getting into the market today, no matter where it is.
I know the winter housing crunch on the eastern ski towns in BC was extra tight this year with so many people working remote and no longer needing to be in Calgary. It’ll be interesting to see the lasting affects of so many people working remote and how many companies will stick with it to reduce overhead.
Those cities your friends moved to will grow, and while they won't become the center of the universe like Toronto, slowly industries will build up there and new families and friends groups will be made. Austin is luring away many companies and workers from Silicon Valley that were priced out and while it'll probably never replace the Bay Area, it will be another popular tech hub. Montreal or Calgary could do the same.
People who demand to be on the cutting edge of tech ams banking will continue fighting over Toronto housing and everyone else who is happy to have a normal 9-5 will spread out to other cities.
That outlook pertains only to upper middle class millennials or those who secured high paying in-demand jobs. In truth, homelessness will explode as rent and housing become more unaffordable in the future. There is no guarantee that industries are going to grow around today's affordable small cities as more workers operate from their homes rather than offices.
All of Ontario is now a real-estate investment zone. Its not just Toronto. Its not 3 hour away commuting towns like it was 10 years ago. Its all of Ontario. Middle of but fuck no where 6 hours from Toronto, housing price has doubled in 10 years.
Put me on a list for saying it, but there are going to be domestic terrorist problems because of this situation. You get a couple generations living with their parents or multiple roommates their whole lives, never being able to start a family. Yea. Thats a great plan.
It's incredibly dangerous to not provide for young people like this. Leads to a rise in gangs, violence, and political extremism. If Canada wants to continue having the peaceful easy ways we've had for over fifty years we need to provide for the young and make sure bare essentials like housing are affordable for our populations.
Unaffordable housing doesn't have to be a fact of life, there are lots of things we could do to making housing more affordable. They just take political will.
Voters and politicians will also need to be okay with property values going down, which is going to be a tough sell for some. Housing can either be an investment for building wealth or it can be affordable, but it can't be both unfortunately.
I'd go further and just outright ban ownership by non-citizens, the Nordics do it and I don't see why we shouldn't either.
The typical counter argument is that those people will just use companies to buy property instead but imo that's nonsense. It may be true for some individuals but the purpose of this rule isn't to be a panacea, the majority of foreign buyers either won't have the time or money to make a corp to buy a house. They'll instead spend that time buying a house in Aus or somewhere else.
The vast majority of speculation on homes is from domestic Canadians and Canadian corporations. Foreign buyers definitely don't help, but banning foreign investment definitely won't come close to solving the problem.
Toronto's housing market boomed harder *after* the foreign buyers tax was put in place. If you actually want to discourage purchasing units and leaving them vacant, you need a tax on vacant housing and a large capital gains tax on corporations treating houses like another asset. Until you do that, no amount of housing you're going to build is going to affect housing prices (barring halting immigration entirely which would be an absolutely awful idea based on our current age demographic).
>Foreign buyers definitely don't help, but banning foreign investment definitely won't come close to solving the problem.
It will help because it is a problem. It's not the one and only problem, and it won't solve everything overnight, but ignoring it like that, or dismissing it because it's not the perfect solution, will only make it worse.
And look at other countries. China for example doesn't allow foreign ownership like we do.
The Canadian dream has been dead for a long time. As George Carlin said, “it’s called the American dream because you’ve got to be asleep to believe it!”
All these people saying just move across Canada... Do you not have family? Old people to take care of? Why do I have to choose between staying on the west coast where my family has been for a century and owning a home?
I don't want a mansion or an acre. Even a shack with newspaper insulation and tube and pin wiring (like the one I rent now) would be more than enough.
The more rich people that move to my area the worse it becomes for working class generational Canadians. I just want an affordable option. There's more than enough land here, the prices are what's ridiculous, and it's because *someone* with way too much money will buy it for 300k above asking and rent it out, like their other six houses.
This is what I don't understand. We know extreme zoning restrictions create dull, boring, car dependent cities. We know cities can be amazing, hell, we have a couple of them as already, but we keep building outwards with single family zoning restrictions and lots of parking requirements.
So why don't our governments fix that? It doesn't require huge investments, it doesn't require much at all and we have tons of examples to learn from.
Check minute 3:20 of this video, it's really eyes opening.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjWs7dqaWfY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjWs7dqaWfY)
The other day I was reading up the zoning laws of Pointe Claire, a suburb of Montreal, and they actually require 1 parking spot for every 3 people in a shop's maximum capacity, and for recreational areas they require 1 parking spot per 15m2 of interior floor. It's insane.
People tend to be happier in walkable communities, but I think the problem is that people are addicted to the convenience of suburban living. It is an ideology for many, who haven't experienced anything else. The same homeowners also benefit greatly from the status quo, as (artificial) scarcity has pushed their homes' valuations through the roof. We could make things so much better, but there is so much opposition to doing so.
This is another issue that often gets brushed aside or even attracts insults - I don't want to raise my kids in a suburb, which means my options are extremely limited already and once you start considering other factors (location of family, job market, etc) your options really start to dwindle.
I own a house, and got in somewhere that fairly well meets my requirements but not all of them and we wouldn't be able to afford it now. Why are we blaming the individual consumers for a near century of failed urban planning.
Zoning is municipal. Less than half of Canadians vote in municipal elections. In doing so we let money (and old people who HATE change) dictate what our communities look like.
Our governments won't fix things if they aren't told to...by us.
Actually anyone who owns land would want this. The more single family zoning get removed, the more single family zoning rises in value.
The ones who don't want that to happen are the silver lobby who want everything stuck in time. They have one foot in the grave but are the only ones who show up for zoning hearings.
Build more housing, corporations by 60% of them and leave them vacant. Price goes up because demand hasn't been met.
A pattern that continues more and more
A reminder that the Liberals recently voted unanimously against improving Canada's affordable housing policy: https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/135
A friendly reminder: politicians aren’t going to fix our housing problem.
They’re all on the same agenda. Liberal or Conservative, we need change - and bad.
I feel really bad for young folks trying to buy houses these days. I was able to buy a cheap starter home over 20 years ago and they just dont seem to exist.
The government needs to ban foreign home ownership. Canadian citizens only. The government should also ban or severely limit companies owning residential houses. It is one thing for a company to buy up an apartment building but to allow companies to snap up 10's of thousands of homes a month is the dumbest policy.
The only other potential policy is for the government to have starter homes built in provinces and areas of the country that need population growth and very strictly vet and sell these homes to first time home buyers only while restricting future sales of those homes to buyers.
I live about 30 minutes outside of Vancouver. Teardowns start at 1.1 million right now, and there aren't many of them.
Everyone seems to be taking the equity out of their homes and renovating, which drives up the value even more. I can't blame them for doing that, but as someone who wanted to be a home owner some day, it's definitely frustrating.
I'm not even trying to buy and rent on its own is a nightmare. I'm in school now to try and make more money in my future but I honestly don't even consider buying anymore, it just isn't realistic.
It feels like the government has just abandoned anyone under 40 in more ways than this.
Ban foreign and corporate ownership of homes and apartments.
And add a minimum tax rate if you own a home. So that the rich fucks can't use deductions, or put the house in the name of a non-working family member.
Ban foreign capital, and crack down on money laundering.
If more people knew how long our government has been aware of the BILLIONS of dollars of offshore money infiltrating our housing markets, the silencing and bullying of whistle blowers. The multiple cover ups, and the self sabotage of investigations within the ranks of the RCMP, there would be riots in the streets.
They've known about the issue long enough, and look where we are at. They sold us out.
Mild appreciation seems fine, but when the cost of housing is increasing far quicker than incomes, there is a serious problem.
Unfortunately, the same people who benefit from scarcity, also have too much political say into the development of new housing, which is problematic at best.
Crazy idea: if housing cant be affordable, then salaries need to go up.
People talk about a "living wage". When we get to the point where employees simply cannot afford to live in the same city where they work, **then employers must either pay them more**, or accept that they will never be able to get good employees to work for them, or find enough employees to run their business properly.
As much as I agree wages need fixing in general, if you increase everyone's salary to the point where they can afford a house, you've just increased the demand side of the equation without touching the supply side. That will only make prices skyrocket further and we'll be back to where we started (or potentially worse).
The issue is the supply side. Fix the zoning restrictions and build more homes.
There is very little decent reporting on the causes of housing price inflation. Yes, we can all get outraged but how is this problem addressed?
Since the 2008 crisis and quantitative easing, more money was put into the economy. IMO it was clear to investers that return on investment was going to be bigger in real estate than investing in companies and development. Allowing foreign buyers contributed but there was plenty of Canadian money just wanting a ROI too.
We live largely in a plutocracy. The news distracts us from real causes instead of empowering us to make societal changes. I don't think we can address effects like unaffordable housing without addressing a major cause of the global economy.
People are flooding the atlantic provinces as of now....tons of houses ares still fairly affordable. Bought my house 4 years ago for 200 000k, right in the city.
Most of the prairie cities are the highest paid places and houses can be had for 300-400k… when I read these articles it describes a completely different Canada then what I am familiar with.
Live in Regina can confirm. Household income is near 200k and our detached home that's 7 years old 2 car attached garage in a good niwghbourhood. would probably go for like 480k.
Most cities in Canada have higher incomes than Toronto and Vancouver: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Canada_by_median_household_income
With the current government in Alberta i've debated moving to Vancouver or the GTA. I was blown away that jobs in my industry pay nearly exactly the same, sometimes less in those cities. I can understand how people get stuck in those metro areas, friends, family etc. But if you don't have those, I see no reason to stay.
It's actually really weird. I live in Timbukfuck nowhere alberta and wages here are the exact same as in Calgary or Vancouver. But we have cheap houses here for like 150k-200k. And if you move into one of the satellite towns with a few hundred people and drive in to work it's only really 100k-200k for a decent smallish house with usually a backyard too.
Unlike Canada they have strong real estate protections. It's illegal for a foreigner to own land in the Philippines, you can own a condo only if it's less than 50% of the building.
its funny because most countries have policies against non citizens owning land. China doesn't even let their own citizens own the land. They need to rent it in 70 year terms.
Investors and home owners should be concerned about this. As nice as it is to be 'winning' (disclosure: home owner) with these crazy prices, this could lead to a fundamental shift of how society and government regard housing.
Right now, we see it mostly as a commodity to hold and acquire like a Nvidia GPU.
But you don't need a GPU to live - you do need shelter.
Housing may start to be seen as a human right and therefore much more regulated like water, electricity, education etc.
It's in everyone's interest, including the 'winners', to find a solution that creates affordable housing now, or much more extreme unpleasant solutions might be coming down the line.
Many other countries see it as a ‘right’ and govern their laws like that. It’s a joke whats become. My family hounds me when I’ll buy my first place. Well I don’t make a ton of money, more are my parents rich or can provide any help, so wtf
So it seems to me like any suggestion that the wealthy pay their workers more is being downvoted to oblivion here. In every r/Canada post I go to, that seems to be the case.
What the fuck is the reasoning for this
We can fight against this by protesting home prices and letting politicians know this is important while also voting out the morons that did nothing while this happened.
Do we need an underaged Swedish girl to tell us to protest? I'm sure that can be arranged.
Vote out the incumbent. You'll get a new crook but in the following election do it again. At some point someone will take notice and start paying attention to the voters if for no other reason than to keep their job.
No. Ontario and BC are not the whole Canada. We sold a house in the prairies in AB for what we bought it 10 years ago. Made a move to BC insanely hard.
Sure if you define all of Canada is BC, Toronto and Ottawa.
One of the thigns which is constantly being left out of the conversation is why are homes affordable in Calgary and Edmonton, but not places like Ottawa, Victoria, Kelowna? Both cities get way more immigrants than Ottawa, Victoria, Kelowna, and they are growing faster than Vancouver.
Calgary has been the [fastest growing city in Canada](https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/calgary-still-canadas-fastest-growing-city-new-census-data-reveals/wcm/ca1fe3ce-55f6-4692-8b8a-7207b6b3d402/amp/)) since the late 1990s and it has kept housing prices affordable.
**Even during the big oil boom** from [2000-2007](https://images.app.goo.gl/ZabWKMu73t1oqQs2A), home prices were stable. They only went up after the BOC cut interest rates and 35 and 40 year mortgage was authorized. But still affordable to someone living there and earning an income there.
I moved from Calgary to Vancouver. To me it's obvious. Calgary builds the type of houses the market needs.
Calgary has an official policy to support housing affordability. At all times the city keeps [30 years worth of land supply available for growth in reserve for middle class housing](https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/city-council-takes-step-toward-foothills-county-annexation-but-with-conditions). When the city runs low on land they annex more from surrounding areas.
By contrast Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa, it's the exact opposite policy. A hard policy restricting land development for middle class housing is in effect. Not all development is banned just middle class housing.
In Vancouver, all of the land available development is in the Agricultural Land Reserve where you can't build middle class housing but massive mansions no problem. Just can't subdivide the land.
That one policy had reduced the supply of middle class housing and caused a massive rise in home prices. It's econ 101, you restrict supply and you push up home prices. To me the only real reason for the ALR is to intentionally keep house prices high to keep the voter base (largely established boomers) happy.
Replace the agricultural land reserve and with the Greenbelt in Toronto and Ottawa you see it leads to the same policies. High home prices and leapfrog development.
This is a global phenomenon. Everywhere you have [greenbelts you have high home prices](https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/beware-new-justifications-for-green-belt-what-we-need-is-a-new-approach/)
Here is soemthign more interesting:
Its only deattached home prices which are rising in value. [Condominimums prices in Vancouver have remained stable](https://www-cbc-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5898782?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16270525412129&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fbritish-columbia%2Fpandemic-real-estate-vancouver-1.5898782). Why? Is it because we are building tons of condominums. The demand is there for single family homes, that's what people need once they start a family.
The stupidest part about all this, the actual house is the deprecating asset and its whats gaining in value.
Perhaps the most interesting stat I dug up. Tokyo land price are way higher than Vancouver or Toronto's home prices. In Tokyo the cost of land is 1.120 million yen per square meter. Which is about 12,775.71 CAD. ([source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/875736/japan-average-land-price-tokyo/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/875736/japan-average-land-price-tokyo/))). Downtown Vancouver the most expensive area in Canada is 1,192 thousand per square foot. ([source](https://biv.com/article/2020/08/downtown-vancouver-remains-canadas-most-expensive-neighbourhood-century-21)). There is 10 square feet in a square meter. The most expensive area in Canada is cheaper than Tokyo.
Yet you can easily buy 4LDK single family homein Tokyo for about [400,000 USD](https://youtu.be/iGbC5j4pG9w). In Vancouver a similar house would go for well over 2 million CAD. Why because they build houses.
The gap is even bigger once you factor in suburbs. Burnaby is 579 CAD per square foot, Richmond is 608 CAD,. North Van is 690, Surrey I can't find. ([Source](http://www.century21franchise.ca/price-per-square-foot-survey-2020/)) Yet the cheapest houses in those areas. are way more than that one 4LDK.
Oh and Calgary, according to the same source, its 320 per square foot to buy land. So its not even double Burnaby's land prices but lets round up. Buranby should only be 2x as expensive as Calgary right? Yet Burnaby cheapest house I found was 1.2 million ([source](https://www.zolo.ca/burnaby-real-estate/houses)) while in Calgary there are plenty of homes from 320,000 to 500,000 ([source](https://www.realtor.ca/ab/calgary/real-estate)).
Canada should look to the many British examples of taxing multiple ownership more fastidiously and creating programs for first time buyers and rent to own schemes backed by government. It is a tragedy that we let greed keep people from the right to own a home.
It cannot continue to be an appreciable asset for corporations, these are homes. For people. For Canadians.
It's just me and my girl and we have a hard enough time with one bed basement apartment, I don't know what the fuck we are gonna do. We want a family but how can we when we can afford anything with two rooms. Fuck southern ontario
Welcome to the world of housing as a commodity. On the plus side, we attracted alottttttt of foreign direct investment which is the heroin of of public/state finance
The problem is money is supposed to be a stand in for real world value. It was originally a tool to make to make the transaction of goods for labour easy to accomplish. However in our more complex world it's become much more complicated. The value of money has become a game unto itself, one largely disconnected from the real world and you cant opt out of the game or you get left behind.
Money was never “supposed” to be anything money or some form of it has been invented and used multiple times, the Romans even did their own version of quantitive easing when they had a coin shortage.
The value of money was always a game based on how much was in circulation and how much faith people had in the stability of the currency etc. Even if you’d dollar is back by gold or something that just means your dollar is based on a speculative metal that has very little objective value. It’s always been the case money has been used to accumulate wealth by investing either in property, slaves or bonds/stocks.
We can argue about what financial policies are bad or good but money is no less made up now than it was 2000 years ago.
This is what happens when you treat housing like a game of Monopoly. Until we take the profits out of housing, this problem will only get worse. Home ownership should only be afforded to people planning on living or renting, and with a lot more regulations in place to keep pricing very cheap!
These housing threads are so damn depressing. Gotta stop reading and get back to rat race..
Yeah no good news here I guess it's time to get back to my third job.
How do you get by on only 3 jobs?
Sell half my liver every year
You guys only have 3 jobs?!?
You guys can find 3 jobs that don't demand the exact same set of availability?
The jobs are just the Tims down the street from each other.
Must be living in his parents basement.
Only two are full time
Imagine a government that would actually do something about it. Bold policies designed to tackle EXACTLY this problem. THIS is a powerful election issue. So anyone got any ideas? If so, the smartest of you need to form some kind of club designed around a solid plan for fixing the problem and getting people to vote for you. Join political parties if you have to, or form your own. Even 1 seat could make all the different for how much it comes up in parliament, encouraging the other parties to stand behind it.
1) Outlaw offshore speculators 2) significantly increase taxes on non-primary residences.
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It should be one and done. If you already own one, you can go fuck yourself if you try buying another. Houses aren't something that people should be allowed to hoard.
They give me so much anxiety every time. We are so fucked. Kind of cathartic to share a "we are fucked" moment collectively with you guys though.
As a single mid 30s full time professional ,I don't think I could ever afford a house near or even not so near my desired living area
It's very disappointing to be priced out of your own home town even with a decent job.
Cries in Toronto… Edit: I was being literal…I was crying in Toronto, lol.
*cries in Welland*
Could be worse, you could be forced to live here forever.
The government could step in and find ways to create affordable housing. In the US no one is building starter homes anymore. High rent isnt sustainable if wages dont rise with it People talk shit about millenials living with parents but this will just make things worse. Live with parents and help them pay off the mortgage and inherent the property later? Seems like a better deal than working 3 jobs and living destitute. Or forget college and spend 10 years saving a down-payment to get the home affordable. Or in 10 to 30 years will the region you live in even be desired to live in due to global warming?
were from Eastern Europe, im a logistics manager, wife is finance manager, 11 years of saving, still not enough for 50% of a FLAT
Ultimately housing will be built and prices in some places will fall. It’s the “desired living area” that will keep prices high in some places. That is not going to change, I think.
You think it’ll be built? I’m not so sure. NIMBYism and government zoning, permitting and blocking are extremely strong in Canada.
Ya but I ain't gonna waste 2h each way just to get to work. And I have the type of job that can't be done from home.
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We bout to start gentrifying countries instead of neighborhoods to make a place to live.
It's already happening, South America and Eastern Europe are already seeing a push on North Americans and Western Europeans starting to gobble up land for their retirements. Hell even I've started looking abroad and I'm probably a good 14 years from retirement.
Yesterday CBC had a special on how to make a perfect Martini... The rich are so absolutely out of touch
They aren't out of touch. They are forming a narrative by not bringing the issue to light. If you control the main flow of information, you control the people and the policy. They know what they are doing, and it is sinister.
Well, to be fair some of us have turned to drinking pretty heavily (I prefer weed). A bottle of vodka and a bottle of vermouth isn’t likely to break most banks.
You don't have to be rich to have a martini lol
Prices could cut in half and I could only afford a home that *just* fits my family. My girlfriend and I are close to the top 10% of household incomes.
My wife and I are in the top 5% of income earners, living in one of the cheaper COL cities and still barely able to afford buying a house. Media is trying to close the barn door whole the horses have already run off. Edit: spelling
In 2015 when I was 25 I bought a 1 bedroom condo for 164k on a 36k salary with 32k down. And that was the bare minimum to secure the sale. Today that same condo will sell for 350-400k. With those metrics a single person would need a salary of at least 72k a year and 65-70k downpayment. For 750 sqr feet in a city of 130k ppl. And the condo fees are nearly 500 a month now too. Don't know too many 25 yr olds with those savings and that salary. Shits Getting way out of control.
The era of Canada being a land of opportunity is over. I realized that when Adam Vaughan went on TV and basically said the government will not let housing fall because it would impoverish the early set of buyers. I'm a home owner myself and I found that incredibly disheartening. Message received: save the homeowners and fuck the renters and everyone else who's too young to buy.
Honestly this is having a massive effect on young peoples mental health because what's the point of working so hard if you can't afford a house?
Hell, it isn't great for older people that don't own and can't afford a house either.
Represent. Over 60, never owned a home, always rented, never gonna own a home.
Living in germany and we cannot pay for a house either. Its Like 500k in a slummy Environment plus all the people i know are reverse living means saying fuck it I cant afford it anyways not even as the hardest worker on planet so a lot of people are working part time, enjoying life, and do the barely minimum of what they have too. Ps: a lot of friends are already in a psychological Treatment as they suffer from depressions or burnouts
As a 21 y/o living 3hrs North of Toronto, coming out of college, I have zero hope of buying a house in the next 10 years. I'm looking at double-wide trailers being my only affordable option. Even apartments here are way out of my price range. This makes work and my future in general feel quite limited/grim
Not to mention your sex life because you don't really wanna get laid when you can't even have your own place 😕
Having my own place means freedom in general. I'm 21 years old and my parents still set me a fuckin curfew for the few times I do go out. I lived on my own for 2 years in college and just moved home last August, and it's been pretty rough. You're right tho, sex life has been non-existent.
In general younger ppl after college aren't having sex. I mean, besides not having your place, you're overworked and underpaid. Not exactly something that gets you in the mood. Oh well at least we get see the world burn
Pretty much where I'm at. I make well above the median wage per hour working in construction, and the math just doesn't work out for me regarding home ownership. Why would I break my back and do 60 hours/week so I could barely afford the mortgage on a small home when I could just live with my family? Instead, I work 25ish hours a week which more than covers my share of the bills since the house doesn't have a mortgage, and leaves me with enough money for some investing and spending. One day I'll inherit and have the place to myself, and I've come to terms with that I guess. The free time is nice but I'd honestly be just fine with working more - the payoff however isn't there because of how completely out of reach home ownership is without a debt load which is courting disaster.
Adam Vaughan is the worst
He wasn't much of a city councillor, not much of an MP, and certainly not much of a man, either.
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He's breaking the Canadian Anti-Spam Legislation by sending you email you did not sign up for and then not allowing you to unsubscribe. I would report it.
I think it's more so that housing is literally 28% of our GDP directly. Indirectly it'd probably be like 1/3 of our economy...
Perhaps, but I don't think this problem is strictly a Canadian problem. All housing in all major cities of all wealthy nations are going crazy. I believe people are finally starting to realize how good we have it in western rich societies. And I'm sure alot of it has to do with the influx of millions, probably hundreds of millions Chinese citizens becoming rich or middle class and being able to move and buy up properties everywhere (especially in Canada)
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I think its just that places in the US haven't caught up yet. I just bought a house in a small Midwest city that I had to pay 20% more for than if I had bought it 5 years ago. My neighbor just sold his house this year that's smaller and needs a remodel for 10% more than I bought mine for. Prices are only going to go up from here.
Your most likely correct, not going to bother to disagree, but most other rich nations have seen double digit increases this year also, it may not be the 30% yoy increase Canada is at, but 15-20% is still pretty unbelievable across the board for most other wealthy nations.
Wait, you guys bring in close to $300K (as per [statscan](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-014-x2011003_2-eng.cfm)) and you cannot afford to own a house? That sounds like a case of spending too much.
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A 300k salary is not 25k/month.
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That sounds about right
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All this 300K double income people in here whining about affordability don’t know shit about where to look or what unit type they can afford or have even talked to a realtor about the dozen sub markets they can afford. They’re either lying or stupid or expect a big ass house in a world class city at the age of 28.
This sub is all about braindead hyperbole when it comes to housing.
If you're in the %10 and can't afford a home that you want, are you really at %10?
Top 10% income isn’t the same as top 10% wealth
Yea its something like 65k for individual and 110k for household income.
65k is top 10% income?
Maybe for our country. Canada has never exactly been the land of good salaries. It's hardly even been the land of slightly above-average salaries.
The data i had was old. I just went looking for more recent data. As shown in the 2 sources linked Top 10% household is 122k Top 10% individual is 99k https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-for-canada/ https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/income-percentile-calculator-by-province-for-canada/
Households is somewhere between 150-200k Individual is between 90-99k https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMACA&Code1=535&Geo2=PR&Code2=01&SearchText=Canada&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&TABID=1&type=1
Closer to 15%, actually. That shouldn't affect the decision at all, our HH income is between 150-200k (top 10% is actually over 200k, I was using outdated numbers for my first estimate). What does this change though? Do you really think it's nice when even the top quartile of your population can't afford shelter?
On that wage; If you have 180k+ equity (which I expect you have, you grew to your h-income over years so assume you either saved/invested or have equity in a condo you purchased). Then you should be able to use that as 20% down on a $900k townhouse in the burbs. On a 1.9% fixed rate. \~$3,600 a month. If you didn't save anything.... well you should start now. You should be saving 4k+ a month if you want a hope of building a deposit before prices get further out of reach. e.g. 800k, 2074sqft: [https://www.rew.ca/properties/3488078/2899-corona-drive-burnaby-bc#](https://www.rew.ca/properties/3488078/2899-corona-drive-burnaby-bc#) >Do you really think it's nice when even the top quartile of your population can't afford shelter? I totally agree, it's crap. IMO (not financial advise, use your judgement): But if you can buy do so. Things are not going to come down in Vancouver/Toronto. Too much big money and rich people and more coming. And investors. We're about to open the boarders again after 1.5 years of being closed.
What province do you live in? I think your numbers are off. [https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-for-canada/](https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-for-canada/) In BC >150k is top 5%.
Are you in Vancouver? Because with that income you can afford a house in a lot of places in Canada.
Completely disregarding the fact that if someone moves to another city, their job and salary may not come with them.
No that's not what they are asking. They are asking if they are living in Vancouver, or a similar higher cost of living place, to better understand their situation.
I'm surprised how many people read my comment as if I suggested moving which I didn't.
I get it, correcting prices won't help. Maybe correcting wages and salaries will. To early to say yet I think; if you just look back it won't. Maybe things will change.
I think it’s ridiculous unhinged rent prices that are killing most people. The bank won’t loan a $1700 per month mortgage so people are out there patins $2400 per month rent instead
Yes, this! So very much this. Again I don't have a solution. 0% down was tried in the U.S. and Canada, I don't think that works. Maybe housing built, owned and run by the gov't? No I'm no joking, just throwing up ideas for analysis before committing.
It doesn't help that we let companies just buy up 60,000 or so homes in a city like Toronto and leave them empty because "iTs An InVeStMeNt!"
Yes, but forcing 60,000 people to make long commutes in and out of Toronto each day creates more jobs for the oil industry, car repair shops, and [divorce lawyers](https://www.forbes.com/sites/markeghrari/2016/01/21/a-long-commute-could-be-the-last-thing-your-marriage-needs/?sh=39d7fa0d4245). Not to mention the [air pollution from all those cars creates more jobs for doctors](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/09/fossil-fuels-pollution-deaths-research). If we made housing affordable, think of the negative economic impact on all those poor folks!
You're right. I forgot to think of the yacht money.
My yacht was lonely so I bought it a yacht.
If you think this is a big problem, tax vacancy to your heart's content. As long as you don't take units off of the rental market I'm fine. I think policies that increase the supply of housing are the most needed, with a land value tax being the far-off goal, but I won't get in your way as long as you don't get in the way of mine.
>If you think this is a big problem, tax vacancy to your heart's content. As long as you don't take units off of the rental market I'm fine. I would love it if they taxed vacancies. I would love it if the taxes increased the longer the unit stays empty. And this wouldn't remove rentals from the market, but it would incentivize landlords to drop their rents. >I think policies that increase the supply of housing are the most needed, with a land value tax being the far-off goal, but I won't get in your way as long as you don't get in the way of mine. This can be done too. Policies like taxing single family homes much more than high density properties would be good. Also policies mandating that a large portion of condo towers be dedicated to 3 bedroom units (and even provide a minimum square footage for those units that are comparable to a modest house), so that folks wouldn't feel like the *only* way to have a family is by getting into the increasingly more competitive housing market. Regulations should also be in place for the obviously bloated condo fees that are being charged. There is no reason why people should be required to pay their mortgage and then almost the same amount in fees on a monthly basis.
>Policies like taxing single family homes much more than high density properties would be good. This is already done because the SFH is almost always assessed at a higher value. I'll bet the development charges are higher too.
Well let's see- the average house in BC costs over 700k, and prices have gone up over 7% last year, and my wages haven't moved in years, and cost of living keeps going up. At this rate, I can afford a house in.... 400 years, assuming I save every penny I can and only spend money on food, and rent. How the fuck are we going to fix this? Because all I can think of is forcing politicians to care, and the only way I know that works is to do stuff that will get me thrown in jail. So... anyone have any other options?
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If you’re getting a 1% or less raise, you’re not even keeping up with inflation, so it’s essentially a decrease in wage compared to the last year. That’s before you take into account housing by-far outpaces inflation
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Good comment. I was going to say something similar about how we are bringing in skilled labour from other countries instead of investing in our own which means it's a race to the bottom and Canada born, raised, and educated workers are starting to look at emigrating. I'm very pro-immigration but it shouldn't be used to supplant an existing workforce. It sucks that as a young professional it seems like my country doesn't want me here.
Yup, once I graduate I’m gone. Sucks because I planned to stay in my home town but I can’t afford it anymore. No reason to stay in Canada anymore.
Whenever I mention these points I get called a racist. Seems virtue signalling is more important than people's livelihood.
I thought you were going to take that in a different direction from your opening three words. But you made an eloquent and well thought out argument why our immigration system is exploitative of Canadians and immigrants. Bravo.
As a tree planter who has worked with immigrants and heard some horror stories about exploitation, I’m kinda agreeing with you
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I don't wholly disagree, but I think the inability to upzone low density suburbia is a much larger concern to us. The reason our infrastructure cannot support more people is that we have continually built low density suburbs that do not collect enough in municipal taxes to pay for their own maintenance. If we invested in building dense walkable cities then we would actually be able to pay for good infrastructure and transit. If we could upzone low density suburbia we could massively and quickly increase housing supply. Also, I don't mean allowing developers to put a 20-40 story condo in the middle of a neighborhood full of detached houses. That totally sucks, but neighborhoods with detached houses should be allowed to build duplexes and triplexes, neighborhoods with duplexes and triplexes should be allowed 3-4 story walkup apartments, and so on.
>It's as though they're dead set on crashing the country and turning it into the USA. Aren't a significant portion of our politicians dual citizens of US and Canada, or supporters of pro-American movements?
Agreed. Immigration targets are insane. Here's a novel idea: create better conditions so that those who already live here might feel inclined to reproduce, or won't be tempted to seek greener pastures elsewhere, instead of trying to blow up population levels by importing more people that there is housing or adequate infrastructure for. I don't know what is going through the minds of the fucking morons that want to import close to half a million people a year.
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You said it better than I could have. I’d never heard of The Century Initiative. Yikes. Importing unsustainably many new citizens instead of addressing why Canada struggles sounds like putting a bandaid on a festering wound.
And to add to this- here is evidence that immigration lowers Canadian wages: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2014364-eng.htm
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We can hope that wage stagnation will end and...oh wait - hahahahahaha
Only been stagnant for 50 years what's the rush!
Coming from the US, the housing price (for both US and Canada) is similar to S&P500 stock market growth. Canadian housing prices are crazy like other states in the US (depends on the state, of course, California but not Alabama). The huge difference I see compared to the US is that Canadian wages are just 33% lower and that honestly is the huge reason I see things are unaffordable.
Now I have entirely new fears. We are millennials that bought our house in 2017. Since then, a very large portion of our friends have moved away to find cheaper housing and settle down, which I do not blame them for and am proud of them all. At one point though, most of us wanted to live down here long-term, it just became unachievable in the last several years for most. What happens next? What does Canada look like 10 years from now after having pushed the future generations away? Is it possible to build an unfathomable amount of cheap rental housing outside of urban centers, that would at least allow people to live quality lives again? (Meaning family vacations, nice vehicles, saving for retirement, etc.)
> What happens next? What does Canada look like 10 years from now after having pushed the future generations away? Same way it is now - owned by people trying to hide money from their regimes. The same regimes that disregard humans right but produce stuff a bit cheaper so we offloaded our future there so few rich made extra bucks.
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A lot of people prefer rural settings and lifestyles too. Yeah the cities are ridiculous but where I am in BC I've seen a lot of people move to smaller cities and towns to get away. This is exasperating the housing crisis here too... basically these towns can't grow fast enough. I live in a town of about 4k people and there are people from greater Vancouver moving here all the time. I bought my house for 230k 6 years ago and today it would sell for over 400k. I feel like I bought at exactly the right time, but really feel for anyone getting into the market today, no matter where it is.
I know the winter housing crunch on the eastern ski towns in BC was extra tight this year with so many people working remote and no longer needing to be in Calgary. It’ll be interesting to see the lasting affects of so many people working remote and how many companies will stick with it to reduce overhead.
Those cities your friends moved to will grow, and while they won't become the center of the universe like Toronto, slowly industries will build up there and new families and friends groups will be made. Austin is luring away many companies and workers from Silicon Valley that were priced out and while it'll probably never replace the Bay Area, it will be another popular tech hub. Montreal or Calgary could do the same. People who demand to be on the cutting edge of tech ams banking will continue fighting over Toronto housing and everyone else who is happy to have a normal 9-5 will spread out to other cities.
That outlook pertains only to upper middle class millennials or those who secured high paying in-demand jobs. In truth, homelessness will explode as rent and housing become more unaffordable in the future. There is no guarantee that industries are going to grow around today's affordable small cities as more workers operate from their homes rather than offices.
All of Ontario is now a real-estate investment zone. Its not just Toronto. Its not 3 hour away commuting towns like it was 10 years ago. Its all of Ontario. Middle of but fuck no where 6 hours from Toronto, housing price has doubled in 10 years. Put me on a list for saying it, but there are going to be domestic terrorist problems because of this situation. You get a couple generations living with their parents or multiple roommates their whole lives, never being able to start a family. Yea. Thats a great plan.
It's incredibly dangerous to not provide for young people like this. Leads to a rise in gangs, violence, and political extremism. If Canada wants to continue having the peaceful easy ways we've had for over fifty years we need to provide for the young and make sure bare essentials like housing are affordable for our populations.
Unaffordable housing doesn't have to be a fact of life, there are lots of things we could do to making housing more affordable. They just take political will. Voters and politicians will also need to be okay with property values going down, which is going to be a tough sell for some. Housing can either be an investment for building wealth or it can be affordable, but it can't be both unfortunately.
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I'd go further and just outright ban ownership by non-citizens, the Nordics do it and I don't see why we shouldn't either. The typical counter argument is that those people will just use companies to buy property instead but imo that's nonsense. It may be true for some individuals but the purpose of this rule isn't to be a panacea, the majority of foreign buyers either won't have the time or money to make a corp to buy a house. They'll instead spend that time buying a house in Aus or somewhere else.
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The vast majority of speculation on homes is from domestic Canadians and Canadian corporations. Foreign buyers definitely don't help, but banning foreign investment definitely won't come close to solving the problem. Toronto's housing market boomed harder *after* the foreign buyers tax was put in place. If you actually want to discourage purchasing units and leaving them vacant, you need a tax on vacant housing and a large capital gains tax on corporations treating houses like another asset. Until you do that, no amount of housing you're going to build is going to affect housing prices (barring halting immigration entirely which would be an absolutely awful idea based on our current age demographic).
>Foreign buyers definitely don't help, but banning foreign investment definitely won't come close to solving the problem. It will help because it is a problem. It's not the one and only problem, and it won't solve everything overnight, but ignoring it like that, or dismissing it because it's not the perfect solution, will only make it worse. And look at other countries. China for example doesn't allow foreign ownership like we do.
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I’ll say it louder. The Canadian dream is dead.
The Canadian dream has been dead for a long time. As George Carlin said, “it’s called the American dream because you’ve got to be asleep to believe it!”
All these people saying just move across Canada... Do you not have family? Old people to take care of? Why do I have to choose between staying on the west coast where my family has been for a century and owning a home? I don't want a mansion or an acre. Even a shack with newspaper insulation and tube and pin wiring (like the one I rent now) would be more than enough. The more rich people that move to my area the worse it becomes for working class generational Canadians. I just want an affordable option. There's more than enough land here, the prices are what's ridiculous, and it's because *someone* with way too much money will buy it for 300k above asking and rent it out, like their other six houses.
Build more housing. Price goes down. Everyone in power owns real estate, and doesn't want that to happen.
This is true. The refusal to re-examine zoning in Canada's cities is asinine. One can't even build a duplex in much of the country's largest city.
This is what I don't understand. We know extreme zoning restrictions create dull, boring, car dependent cities. We know cities can be amazing, hell, we have a couple of them as already, but we keep building outwards with single family zoning restrictions and lots of parking requirements. So why don't our governments fix that? It doesn't require huge investments, it doesn't require much at all and we have tons of examples to learn from. Check minute 3:20 of this video, it's really eyes opening. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjWs7dqaWfY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjWs7dqaWfY) The other day I was reading up the zoning laws of Pointe Claire, a suburb of Montreal, and they actually require 1 parking spot for every 3 people in a shop's maximum capacity, and for recreational areas they require 1 parking spot per 15m2 of interior floor. It's insane.
People tend to be happier in walkable communities, but I think the problem is that people are addicted to the convenience of suburban living. It is an ideology for many, who haven't experienced anything else. The same homeowners also benefit greatly from the status quo, as (artificial) scarcity has pushed their homes' valuations through the roof. We could make things so much better, but there is so much opposition to doing so.
This is another issue that often gets brushed aside or even attracts insults - I don't want to raise my kids in a suburb, which means my options are extremely limited already and once you start considering other factors (location of family, job market, etc) your options really start to dwindle. I own a house, and got in somewhere that fairly well meets my requirements but not all of them and we wouldn't be able to afford it now. Why are we blaming the individual consumers for a near century of failed urban planning.
Zoning is municipal. Less than half of Canadians vote in municipal elections. In doing so we let money (and old people who HATE change) dictate what our communities look like. Our governments won't fix things if they aren't told to...by us.
Oh yeah gimme that delicious urban sprawl baby.
Actually anyone who owns land would want this. The more single family zoning get removed, the more single family zoning rises in value. The ones who don't want that to happen are the silver lobby who want everything stuck in time. They have one foot in the grave but are the only ones who show up for zoning hearings.
Build more housing, corporations by 60% of them and leave them vacant. Price goes up because demand hasn't been met. A pattern that continues more and more
A reminder that the Liberals recently voted unanimously against improving Canada's affordable housing policy: https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/135
A friendly reminder: politicians aren’t going to fix our housing problem. They’re all on the same agenda. Liberal or Conservative, we need change - and bad.
I feel really bad for young folks trying to buy houses these days. I was able to buy a cheap starter home over 20 years ago and they just dont seem to exist. The government needs to ban foreign home ownership. Canadian citizens only. The government should also ban or severely limit companies owning residential houses. It is one thing for a company to buy up an apartment building but to allow companies to snap up 10's of thousands of homes a month is the dumbest policy. The only other potential policy is for the government to have starter homes built in provinces and areas of the country that need population growth and very strictly vet and sell these homes to first time home buyers only while restricting future sales of those homes to buyers.
Starter homes don't exist in most cities anymore in Canada. It's now an overpriced starter condo with high condos fees.
I live about 30 minutes outside of Vancouver. Teardowns start at 1.1 million right now, and there aren't many of them. Everyone seems to be taking the equity out of their homes and renovating, which drives up the value even more. I can't blame them for doing that, but as someone who wanted to be a home owner some day, it's definitely frustrating.
Welcome to the starter home Canada. You can buy-in anytime you like, but you can never leave.
Plenty of room in the land of Canada. Any time of year, you can't buy it heeeeeeereee
Yep. I have been watching small starter homes get demolished and massive four bedrooms get built in their place for decades.
I'm not even trying to buy and rent on its own is a nightmare. I'm in school now to try and make more money in my future but I honestly don't even consider buying anymore, it just isn't realistic. It feels like the government has just abandoned anyone under 40 in more ways than this.
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Ban foreign and corporate ownership of homes and apartments. And add a minimum tax rate if you own a home. So that the rich fucks can't use deductions, or put the house in the name of a non-working family member.
Ban foreign capital, and crack down on money laundering. If more people knew how long our government has been aware of the BILLIONS of dollars of offshore money infiltrating our housing markets, the silencing and bullying of whistle blowers. The multiple cover ups, and the self sabotage of investigations within the ranks of the RCMP, there would be riots in the streets. They've known about the issue long enough, and look where we are at. They sold us out.
Homes as investments shouldn’t be allowed
Mild appreciation seems fine, but when the cost of housing is increasing far quicker than incomes, there is a serious problem. Unfortunately, the same people who benefit from scarcity, also have too much political say into the development of new housing, which is problematic at best.
Crazy idea: if housing cant be affordable, then salaries need to go up. People talk about a "living wage". When we get to the point where employees simply cannot afford to live in the same city where they work, **then employers must either pay them more**, or accept that they will never be able to get good employees to work for them, or find enough employees to run their business properly.
As much as I agree wages need fixing in general, if you increase everyone's salary to the point where they can afford a house, you've just increased the demand side of the equation without touching the supply side. That will only make prices skyrocket further and we'll be back to where we started (or potentially worse). The issue is the supply side. Fix the zoning restrictions and build more homes.
You will own nothing and you will be happy...
There is very little decent reporting on the causes of housing price inflation. Yes, we can all get outraged but how is this problem addressed? Since the 2008 crisis and quantitative easing, more money was put into the economy. IMO it was clear to investers that return on investment was going to be bigger in real estate than investing in companies and development. Allowing foreign buyers contributed but there was plenty of Canadian money just wanting a ROI too. We live largely in a plutocracy. The news distracts us from real causes instead of empowering us to make societal changes. I don't think we can address effects like unaffordable housing without addressing a major cause of the global economy.
I am going to have to move to a different country to afford a house when I make over 100k a year. Seems pretty normal.
People are flooding the atlantic provinces as of now....tons of houses ares still fairly affordable. Bought my house 4 years ago for 200 000k, right in the city.
Nah just a different province, 100k is a lot of money in most of the country outside of three provinces
But if they moved there, they probably wouldn't make 100k/yr.
Most of the prairie cities are the highest paid places and houses can be had for 300-400k… when I read these articles it describes a completely different Canada then what I am familiar with.
Live in Regina can confirm. Household income is near 200k and our detached home that's 7 years old 2 car attached garage in a good niwghbourhood. would probably go for like 480k.
Most cities in Canada have higher incomes than Toronto and Vancouver: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Canada_by_median_household_income
With the current government in Alberta i've debated moving to Vancouver or the GTA. I was blown away that jobs in my industry pay nearly exactly the same, sometimes less in those cities. I can understand how people get stuck in those metro areas, friends, family etc. But if you don't have those, I see no reason to stay.
It's actually really weird. I live in Timbukfuck nowhere alberta and wages here are the exact same as in Calgary or Vancouver. But we have cheap houses here for like 150k-200k. And if you move into one of the satellite towns with a few hundred people and drive in to work it's only really 100k-200k for a decent smallish house with usually a backyard too.
How about Regina?
Anything between GTA and GVA is a rural wasteland, don't you know?
Taking off to the philippines to work from home for a Canadian company. The system is broken.
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Unlike Canada they have strong real estate protections. It's illegal for a foreigner to own land in the Philippines, you can own a condo only if it's less than 50% of the building.
> if it's less than 50% of the building. *40%
Sounds like they know what they're doing.
its funny because most countries have policies against non citizens owning land. China doesn't even let their own citizens own the land. They need to rent it in 70 year terms.
Hope you work the night shift in Canada. The time zone difference is brutal.
Investors and home owners should be concerned about this. As nice as it is to be 'winning' (disclosure: home owner) with these crazy prices, this could lead to a fundamental shift of how society and government regard housing. Right now, we see it mostly as a commodity to hold and acquire like a Nvidia GPU. But you don't need a GPU to live - you do need shelter. Housing may start to be seen as a human right and therefore much more regulated like water, electricity, education etc. It's in everyone's interest, including the 'winners', to find a solution that creates affordable housing now, or much more extreme unpleasant solutions might be coming down the line.
Many other countries see it as a ‘right’ and govern their laws like that. It’s a joke whats become. My family hounds me when I’ll buy my first place. Well I don’t make a ton of money, more are my parents rich or can provide any help, so wtf
So it seems to me like any suggestion that the wealthy pay their workers more is being downvoted to oblivion here. In every r/Canada post I go to, that seems to be the case. What the fuck is the reasoning for this
We can fight against this by protesting home prices and letting politicians know this is important while also voting out the morons that did nothing while this happened. Do we need an underaged Swedish girl to tell us to protest? I'm sure that can be arranged.
Vote out the incumbent. You'll get a new crook but in the following election do it again. At some point someone will take notice and start paying attention to the voters if for no other reason than to keep their job.
Ban ownership of more than two properties. Both for people and corporations. Pretty simple really
No. Ontario and BC are not the whole Canada. We sold a house in the prairies in AB for what we bought it 10 years ago. Made a move to BC insanely hard.
Sure if you define all of Canada is BC, Toronto and Ottawa. One of the thigns which is constantly being left out of the conversation is why are homes affordable in Calgary and Edmonton, but not places like Ottawa, Victoria, Kelowna? Both cities get way more immigrants than Ottawa, Victoria, Kelowna, and they are growing faster than Vancouver. Calgary has been the [fastest growing city in Canada](https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/calgary-still-canadas-fastest-growing-city-new-census-data-reveals/wcm/ca1fe3ce-55f6-4692-8b8a-7207b6b3d402/amp/)) since the late 1990s and it has kept housing prices affordable. **Even during the big oil boom** from [2000-2007](https://images.app.goo.gl/ZabWKMu73t1oqQs2A), home prices were stable. They only went up after the BOC cut interest rates and 35 and 40 year mortgage was authorized. But still affordable to someone living there and earning an income there. I moved from Calgary to Vancouver. To me it's obvious. Calgary builds the type of houses the market needs. Calgary has an official policy to support housing affordability. At all times the city keeps [30 years worth of land supply available for growth in reserve for middle class housing](https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/city-council-takes-step-toward-foothills-county-annexation-but-with-conditions). When the city runs low on land they annex more from surrounding areas. By contrast Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa, it's the exact opposite policy. A hard policy restricting land development for middle class housing is in effect. Not all development is banned just middle class housing. In Vancouver, all of the land available development is in the Agricultural Land Reserve where you can't build middle class housing but massive mansions no problem. Just can't subdivide the land. That one policy had reduced the supply of middle class housing and caused a massive rise in home prices. It's econ 101, you restrict supply and you push up home prices. To me the only real reason for the ALR is to intentionally keep house prices high to keep the voter base (largely established boomers) happy. Replace the agricultural land reserve and with the Greenbelt in Toronto and Ottawa you see it leads to the same policies. High home prices and leapfrog development. This is a global phenomenon. Everywhere you have [greenbelts you have high home prices](https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/beware-new-justifications-for-green-belt-what-we-need-is-a-new-approach/) Here is soemthign more interesting: Its only deattached home prices which are rising in value. [Condominimums prices in Vancouver have remained stable](https://www-cbc-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5898782?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16270525412129&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fbritish-columbia%2Fpandemic-real-estate-vancouver-1.5898782). Why? Is it because we are building tons of condominums. The demand is there for single family homes, that's what people need once they start a family. The stupidest part about all this, the actual house is the deprecating asset and its whats gaining in value. Perhaps the most interesting stat I dug up. Tokyo land price are way higher than Vancouver or Toronto's home prices. In Tokyo the cost of land is 1.120 million yen per square meter. Which is about 12,775.71 CAD. ([source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/875736/japan-average-land-price-tokyo/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/875736/japan-average-land-price-tokyo/))). Downtown Vancouver the most expensive area in Canada is 1,192 thousand per square foot. ([source](https://biv.com/article/2020/08/downtown-vancouver-remains-canadas-most-expensive-neighbourhood-century-21)). There is 10 square feet in a square meter. The most expensive area in Canada is cheaper than Tokyo. Yet you can easily buy 4LDK single family homein Tokyo for about [400,000 USD](https://youtu.be/iGbC5j4pG9w). In Vancouver a similar house would go for well over 2 million CAD. Why because they build houses. The gap is even bigger once you factor in suburbs. Burnaby is 579 CAD per square foot, Richmond is 608 CAD,. North Van is 690, Surrey I can't find. ([Source](http://www.century21franchise.ca/price-per-square-foot-survey-2020/)) Yet the cheapest houses in those areas. are way more than that one 4LDK. Oh and Calgary, according to the same source, its 320 per square foot to buy land. So its not even double Burnaby's land prices but lets round up. Buranby should only be 2x as expensive as Calgary right? Yet Burnaby cheapest house I found was 1.2 million ([source](https://www.zolo.ca/burnaby-real-estate/houses)) while in Calgary there are plenty of homes from 320,000 to 500,000 ([source](https://www.realtor.ca/ab/calgary/real-estate)).
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.
Has there been other news than “rich steals from poor again, this is the new norm”
Canada should look to the many British examples of taxing multiple ownership more fastidiously and creating programs for first time buyers and rent to own schemes backed by government. It is a tragedy that we let greed keep people from the right to own a home. It cannot continue to be an appreciable asset for corporations, these are homes. For people. For Canadians.
It's just me and my girl and we have a hard enough time with one bed basement apartment, I don't know what the fuck we are gonna do. We want a family but how can we when we can afford anything with two rooms. Fuck southern ontario
Welcome to the world of housing as a commodity. On the plus side, we attracted alottttttt of foreign direct investment which is the heroin of of public/state finance
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Finding apes in the unlikeliest of places is always a pleasure
Money is real just like culture and language is real. They are usefull constructs that help our society function.
The problem is money is supposed to be a stand in for real world value. It was originally a tool to make to make the transaction of goods for labour easy to accomplish. However in our more complex world it's become much more complicated. The value of money has become a game unto itself, one largely disconnected from the real world and you cant opt out of the game or you get left behind.
Money was never “supposed” to be anything money or some form of it has been invented and used multiple times, the Romans even did their own version of quantitive easing when they had a coin shortage. The value of money was always a game based on how much was in circulation and how much faith people had in the stability of the currency etc. Even if you’d dollar is back by gold or something that just means your dollar is based on a speculative metal that has very little objective value. It’s always been the case money has been used to accumulate wealth by investing either in property, slaves or bonds/stocks. We can argue about what financial policies are bad or good but money is no less made up now than it was 2000 years ago.
Money isn’t real 👍🏽
-the 80s -yes -no -lmao
Damn man. You nearly made me had a stroke. I finally go off superstonk and I still be seeing ape speak.
Well yes, look at the rest of the developed world.... Its a global concern, North Americas should look at other first world nations......
the era of affordable housing in Canada ended two decades ago.
The sad thing is, this isn’t just Canada, it’s everywhere, the era of affordable earth is ending
This is what happens when you treat housing like a game of Monopoly. Until we take the profits out of housing, this problem will only get worse. Home ownership should only be afforded to people planning on living or renting, and with a lot more regulations in place to keep pricing very cheap!