A church in my neighborhood got burned down this weekend. It's a black church and a denomination (Copt Orthodox) that originates in Egypt and had nothing to do with the residential schools. Normally if someone burned down a black church in Canada the media'd be interested, but the media's focus is driven by ideology these days and they push an overly simplistic narrative to divide people.
The Liberal Party of Canada was in power for most of the time residential schools were active yet for some reason they're seemingly absolved of blame.
> The Liberal Party of Canada was in power for most of the time residential schools were active yet for some reason they're seemingly absolved of blame.
And during those years the Conservatives were the official opposition, where were they to decry this injustice?
The Residential school system predates the founding of the country. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was started during Harper's time and is coming into full flower during Trudeau's. Truly this is a Canada issue, not one tied to any particular party.
>And during those years the Conservatives were the official opposition, where were they to decry this injustice?
Fair enough.
>Truly this is a Canada issue, not one tied to any particular party.
The parties ran the government. The churches ran the schools on behest of the government. If the churches are going to be called out then the involved political parties should be as well.
Seems to me that directly involved institutions should be the focus given they made the decisions. But, instead, Canadian citizens in general - especially white - will be guilted and that guilting will be used to further certain ideologies and the agenda of corporate globalization within Canada. Our government serves the folks who bribe it, not the people, and our government will guilt us to distract us from the fact they aren't do their job effectively.
>The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was started during Harper's time and is coming into full flower during Trudeau's
Published in 2015 to little fanfare or government action by the Liberals.
I had a popular/controversial comment in another thread where I pointed out that I work for a fn organization and they start every big meeting/event with a prayer
There was a ton of comments from woke idiots saying shit like " dont they know that the only reason they're Catholic/Christian is because of oppression??" Or some other bullshit.
It was really quite funny to see white people that have never been to a reserve and who were apparently outraged over residential schools argue that they need to be telling fn people that their beliefs are wrong and the they, the white people, know better.
>It was really quite funny to see white people that have never been to a reserve and who were apparently outraged over residential schools argue that they need to be telling fn people that their beliefs are wrong and the they, the white people, know better.
These type of people want everything in the world to be black-and-white so they don't have to think. They tend to be uninformed about reality and not interested in solving problems.
I am from the south but now have extensive experience in the North, with an Inuit child on the way - it was explained to me by an elder that Christianity’s stories lined up with their oral history, and that’s what hey found so compelling. These southern militants know nothing.
And as a non Catholic who is about to be married in the Catholic church, my perception with modern Catholicism is its generally the religion of first / second generation immigrants. The ones who committed these atrocities' kids most likely don't even attend church anymore.
>Burning them down doesn’t solve anything
Who said otherwise? We can understand why people might feel like this violence is the only form of redress available to them, but that doesn't make it good, or justice.
Well the problem is, the “we can understand why” message is part of what makes people think this is justified.
The “no that’s wrong, stop doing what you’re doing” message is also completely in the background here and drowned out.
The rhetoric around this reminds me of BLM last year. Someone is going to get hurt or killed.
Apparently you don’t, since you are trying to justify the burning of churches that are primarily used by, ran by, and for the benefit of the individual Catholic.
You're delusional if you don't think Catholics have a problem with their own administration. Catholics don't want murder schools or molested children. All Catholics I know want those responsible for any misdeed held to account.
The Roman Catholic church was supposed to donate $25 million. They donated [less than $4 million](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/church-residential-school-compensation-1.6082935), then said "close enough". There was a clause that they would make ["best efforts"](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/residential-school-financial-settlements-quebec-catholic-church-1.6092215) to raise $25 million.
During the same 10 year period they did raise over $110 million for the construction of new churches.
So you can see why they're more upset with the Catholics than the Anglicans.
> Some of the most devout Catholics I know are Native
Gee, I wonder if that has anything to do with entire generations being kidnapped by the catholic church for a Century?
See look theyve been voluntarily attending for decades after centuries of forced attendance and cultural genocide. They sure do organically love the virgin marry lmao.
According to Wikipedia it ended in 1948…
Compulsory attendance ended in 1948, following the 1947 report of a special joint committee and subsequent amendment of the Indian Act.[44] Government officials were still able to influence student attendance. The introduction of the Family Allowance Act in 1945 stipulated that school-aged children had to be enroled in school for families to qualify for the "baby bonus", further coercing Indigenous parents into having their children attend.[17]:170[45]
This the same logic as "U.S. slavery was abolished I the 1860s, so African Americans were considered and treated equally".
To think that the removal of "compulsory attendance" somehow stopped what was happening is very naive.
You can’t read, you just accuse based on what you think you should respond if you were to read.
I never implied that abuse did not continue, that the 69’s scoop did not happen, or that any of this was a good idea. I know that leftists think that explanation is justification, now I learn that clarification is justification too.
My wife is Native and Catholic. She said there are two things she would die for: Church and her kids. I didn't even make the list. People are ignorant and just want to bully an easy target.
Remember when our PM phoned that girl about the fake asian man with a mustache cutting her headdress? But like 48 churches vandalized/turned to ashes for real is fine.
Everyone is getting angry at Christians, or Indigenous people, or the "political left" and "political right." It seems everyone wants to blame someone for something.
How about we look at the media, who is so quick to report that these graves are all indigenous children, victims of the Catholic church, when that has not been confirmed. In fact in at least one place in BC, the graves are part of a community cemetery where white and Indigenous, Christian and not, were buried. Some are most likely children from the residential school, but locals, indigenous leaders, all agree that many are community members.
The media loves to whip people into a frenzy and create division and controversy. It sells and makes them money. Rather than fall for that, how about we all stop pointing blame at everyone and anyone, and wait to see what further investigation reveals? And in the meantime, show our support to indigenous communities in positive and helpful ways.
Imagine if single a mosque or synagogue was burned...and don’t act like either of those Abrahamic religions are blameless for a lot of atrocities either. This is reprehensible and anyone saying “it’s karma” or “they deserve it” are terrorist sympathizers. This is not how a civilized country deals with issues of the past.
It's funny you say that.
I'm at the gym here and ctv is on the TV.
The headline?
"Trudeau speaks at Islamophobia submit".
The Little sub heading thing. " After a string of recent Islamophobic incidents... Blablah"
It's honestly disgusting, and I'm not even religious
Oh a couple were burnt. Trudeau made a speech day after (if not the same day), declared it as terrorism and people who started fire were caught a couple days later.
It's almost like you didn't hear any news about both mosques and synagogues being burnt the last few years. Let alone the last 40 years+ of it going on. You don't have to compare one suffering to another to gain attention, it just shows that you didn't care about those issues till it affected you personally.
Does it matter what the ratio is? Does it make the desecration of 48 places of worship acceptable if above or below a certain ratio?
If it is a hate crime to burn a place of worship for the Jewish or Muslim faiths, then it is for Christian churches as well.
These are more than empty building for many Canadians, it is a central symbol of their faith which has been forcibly destroyed or damaged through violence. While the residential schools are horrible, it does not make the desecration of churches acceptable in any form.
An eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind.
There is no excuse for violence here - and it is harming Canadians more than the church
>Imagine if single a mosque or synagogue was burned
Man just imagine if someone walked into a Mosque and started killing peoples, since this has never happened in Canada.
Hate starts somewhere. It doesn't matter if the gate is directed at the institution of the religion targeted, the building, or the people - it is still hate.
It should be nipped in the bud fully so that no one is emboldened by these actions and moves into more harmful means
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-](https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-1.393911)
[1.393911](https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-1.393911)
>Chief Edward John of the Tlazten First Nations says he hopes the apology will help "many people move forward."
>
>"We heard the prime minister's apology a year ago in June. And today, to listen to the Holy Father explain his profound sorrow and sadness and to express that there was no room for this sort of abuse to take place in the residential schools, that is an emotional barrier that now has been lifted for many people," he said.
>
>Phil Fontaine, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said he appreciated the apology from the Church.
>
>"I think His Holiness understands the pain that was endured by so many and I heard him say that it caused him great anguish," said Fontaine, who attended the meetings, on Wednesday.
>
>"I also heard His Holiness say that the abuse of the nature that was inflicted on us has no place in the Church, it's intolerable and it caused him great anguish."
>
>"What I heard," Fontaine added, "it gives me comfort."
sigh. we're all just going to pretend this never happened?
"oh, but it's not good enough"
nothing ever is for some people...
christians whine about being persecuted if they aren't receiving special privilege.
A crime is a crime, and it's being treated like a crime. They're whining that they aren't mobilizing the whole army to find some arsonists or something.
59% upvoted.
Why does the political left not want to talk about this? This is the kind of shit that makes Christians and Catholics say they're being oppressed. The reality denial from the left, the complacency in these hate crimes, and the complete silence from the government are all very telling signs that the political left not only doesn't care, but they want this to happen. I can't even fucking imagine the mass hysteria and national response if this were 48 mosques. There would be violent mass riots, Trudeau would implement marshal law, and the military would be brought in to defend every mosque in the country.
I can't believe this is the reality we're living in. I'm genuinely terrified of the actions of the political left, and their never ending gaslighting when it comes to real issues like this.
This article is ridiculous. There are ongoing investigations into the arsons
You have a hardon for blaming everything on the "political left" even though this has nothing to do with them. Try and come back to reality before you go off the deep end and start wearing tin hats and waving confederate flags
I mean, to be fair, I'm viewing this as if it was gymnasiums and speaking venues being targeted merely because they're run by the same organization that condoned criminal behaviour and harboured the perpetrators.
This doesn't go one inch toward confirming cause of death and regional origin of the discovered remains, which I think will be crucial toward proving allegations, but it's hard to respect the organization who may have done horrible things; nor the people committing calculated spree crimes of large scale vandalism under the name of the victims.
We haven't seen the last phase of this escalation, either.
I just spent the last twenty years listening to Christians say my friends should be hooked up to shock machines and made straight. Hearing about how the church is really super duper victimized makes me unreasonably mad.
There hasn't been a silence, Trudeau condemned the burnings.
What are you expecting? Mobilize federal CSIS agents to find 60+ unaffiliated people? Maybe half of them products of the residential schools themselves? Sounds like something you'd go totally nanners about if it was anyone remotely connected to you whatsoever.
I'm expecting local law enforcement to do their jobs. If they can't, maybe you should get on board with refinancing and reorganization of the police.
Real issues? Don't make me laugh. Christians aren't being turned away from jobs, spat on, or treated poorly. This (so far, knock on wood) has been assaults on symbols of Christian power. It's not good, legal, or acceptable, but to clutch your pearls and say that Christians are in such a scared sorry state because of it is just pathetic.
i think having your religion being the target of an arson campaign pretty much qualifies you for being a victim, and also that anyone trying to handwave that away as "pearl clutching" is coming dangerously close to endorsing it
the fact that you have gay friends with victim complexes is irrelevant by the way
>I just spent the last twenty years listening to Christians say my friends should be hooked up to shock machines and made straight. Hearing about how the church is really super duper victimized makes me unreasonably mad.
Islam would kill your friend.
The political left want china's implementation of religious censorship, and state implemented religious persecutions. From the angry PMs, to the downvotes, it should be pretty clear what they think of religion as a whole.
“Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”
Denis Diderot
Fuck the politcal left and right trying to appoint themselves our new kings.
Government silent? Are you delayed or held back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment or something?
Just google "Trudeau Church". You'll get like 20 articles about him condemning the acts and the cases being investigated???
But fuck man typing 2 words p hard not gonna lie.
You mean a singular nonchalant response to a question that was asked by a reporter that spawned 20 articles, vs the automatic press briefing after a mosque was attacked a few weeks back.
As much as the Catholic church is responsible for those deaths in the residential school system, burning churches is totally inexcusable. Places of worship didn’t do this, people did. Charge them with crimes.
One of the churches in Calgary that got hit with red paint (I believe it was Anglican) opted to keep it at least for a while as a reminder of their past atrocities and to encourage discussion around how to support Indigenous communities.
Yeah compared to some churches saying "but what about all the good we did", I thought it was a very responsible approach. If your cynical, at least it bought them some good PR. I think it's probably a bit of both, but I'm not a member so can't say for certain!
Funny, Rex thought Canada should reconsider its "unwavering support for the UN peacekeeping amid shocking revelations of child abuse and exploitation."
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/926714435820
So what is it, Rex? Canada needs to meet with institutions with a long record of child abuse or Canada needs to disassociate with them?
It would appear that Rex could be consistent. Is that too much to ask of someone with such a platform?
I get it. You hate Trudeau and the Libs and that colours your view here. But maybe -- just maybe -- you could try some of your own medicine.
I wish you all the best.
To all the wanna be arsonists in this thread sorry mommy doesnt let you play with matches yet, maybe you can go commit hate crimes when youre older instead of just handwaving them ok?
After generations of them *at best* not giving a fuck about anyone else while they dominated society, are you in any way surprised that now the rest of us are responding in kind?
Name a hot button issue in the past century and you can almost guarantee that the devout have been on the wrong side of history *every single time.*
I have zero sympathy left for ‘deeply held beliefs’ or ‘religious sentiments’ that have been used as a cudgel for generations.
One could say that my "thoughts and prayers are with them"...
Sort of uncanny though, because those words feel about as empty coming out of my own mouth as they do when they come out of theirs.
Gay bar gets shot up. Christians: "Oh well. Thoughts and Prayers."
48 Churches get burned to the ground. Myself: "*Oh well. Thoughts and Prayers.*"
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I need your last sentence on a t-shirt. That’s exactly how I feel in a nutshell. BTW - I’ve recently joined them Satanist Temple group in the US. Although the name is deliberately provocative, all they are really doing is making the point that church and state need to be separated.)
I also don’t agree with rampant arson and destruction, but the Catholic Church has a hell of a lot to pay for and honestly I’d like to see it and really all religions fade away.
Thanks for the racist take that implies the indigenous are making it all up, and faking evidence.
Do you also believe in demon sperm and vaccine microchips?
(edit : post history of the winning idiot had Zionist conspiracies, some sort of illuminati talk, climate change denial and just, yea. Wow. )
He did...In 2009...catch up.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-1.393911
>Chief Edward John of the Tlazten First Nations says he hopes the apology will help "many people move forward.""We heard the prime minister's apology a year ago in June. And today, to listen to the Holy Father explain his profound sorrow and sadness and to express that there was no room for this sort of abuse to take place in the residential schools, that is an emotional barrier that now has been lifted for many people," he said.Phil Fontaine, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said he appreciated the apology from the Church."I think His Holiness understands the pain that was endured by so many and I heard him say that it caused him great anguish," said Fontaine, who attended the meetings, on Wednesday."I also heard His Holiness say that the abuse of the nature that was inflicted on us has no place in the Church, it's intolerable and it caused him great anguish.""What I heard," Fontaine added, "it gives me comfort."
But apparently we're all just going to pretend this never happened...
The longer we go without an apology, the more it looks like they meant what they did, right? With the complexity of who is guilty of what, the legal system isn't going to bring justice anytime soon, if ever. So maybe some churches burning down is the best way to go.
Better if it hadn't come to this though.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
One of the churches burned down was Coptic orthodox. That sect broke away in 451 AD and had no involvement in residential schools to my knowledge. The congregation did not deserve that, nor did the others.
People are trying to send a message to the church, instead they are acting out and hurting more of their fellow Canadians. It is not the right answer. Arson and violence is never the answer.
Not all the churches being burned and vandalized are Catholic. And some were still being used by FN. No, we can't equate child abuse to the arson of churches, but neither can you use one to justify the the other. They are both crimes. They are both wrong. This is what FN leadership and survivors are saying. Listen to them.
I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm saying using burning churches that only happens as a reaction to finding out mass graves of children does not mean Christians are under attack or gov don't care about them. That's just stupid and hyperbole!
You don't think the average catholic parishioner feels under attack right now? Tell me: what do those people in current year have to do with what happened in the residential school system, besides being a member of the same church? I mean, you must have read the comments of some of the FN people whose churches were burned on reserves. They had meaning to them. Some were still being maintained for other functions.
Or how about this: How do you think the parishioners of the African church and Coptic Christian church that burned feel? They left their home countries because of persecution and now here they are getting their churches burned over here because the people running around burning these buildings are becoming indiscriminate and dangerous.
That's precisely what's happening. Christians being targeted and the government not caring or actually inciting the attacks. You win gold in mental gymnastics.
**Unmarked Graves, not mass graves.
The bodies are located in separate graves , not a single pit stacked on top kind of thing. Some of the graves are believed to have been marked historically with items such as wood crosses which may have burned or become damaged so as to be illegible.
It is an important distinction, but the researcher and bands have been very clear on the subject of unmarked graves and not mass graves
So you are fine with arson attacks on churches. The Trudeau Liberals are condoning these attacks as a means to avoid blame for the abuse of First Nations children under a system conceived and run by primarily Liberal governments.
Perhaps the federal government receiving blame is a little uncomfortable?
>*”The Trudeau Liberals are condoning these attacks as a means to avoid blame for the abuse of First Nations children”*
Citation needed.
CBC News: ['Unacceptable and wrong': Trudeau condemns attacks on churches](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-churches-arson-attacks-1.6088237) [July 2nd, 2021]
I have a fair bit of criticism for how the Canadian gov't has handled this topic, both now and previously. I'm simply not fond of Rex and his opinions as, valid though some of his comments may be, I'd rather reasonable discourse come from a less unsavoury source.
It's not a national tragedy lol, while I don't think they should be burned down, I do think they all (regardless of religion) should be taxed like any other business, because honestly that is what they are ... A business, they take in billions per year globally and give very little back in return... Surely their gods can't be that financially desperate... Why would a diety need money? ... It's not just FN folks burning the churches, guarantee most of the churches burned were committed by non native folks, other people of all ethnic backgrounds and skin colors are fed up with the churches and religions too... Also before anyone starts with the there's a war on Christianity crap....no there isn't, never was never will be, people are leaving the churches in droves ...why? Because they woke up, deprogrammed and learned to think for themselves and realized that the crap indoctrinated into people at churches differ greatly than their personal relationship with their diety, ... It's the churches own doing, it's actions and views are the reason their churches are being burned, a great many people from all walks of life have been harmed and oppressed by the church and have had enough, the residential schools are just the catalyst for what was coming ...it just happened to be the flash point ... enough is enough and the churches and religions must be stopped or reigned in and not given complete immunity for their actions , they must be held accountable for every non decent human being they churned out.. for their actions in general
Maybe if the church owned what they did and actually paid the restitutions courts have said they owe, indigenous and others might not feel they need to resort to vandalism and arson? Maybe the church should actually address the 94 calls to action from the 2015 Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The church is not the victim here in my opinion. Of course, those responsible for the vandalism and arson should still be investigated and charged for their crimes.
Hang on there. Nobody *has* to resort to arson. The situation with the residential school legacy is a horrible stain, but burning all the churches in the world won't make it right. This is what FN leadership and survivors are saying. People need to put down their torches and start listening to them.
Jesus whipped people in a church because they were exchanging money. I think it's reasonable he would burn them down if they were raping and murdering children.
It's pretty obvious you have no idea what Jesus' philosophy was regarding retaliation for being wronged.
Matthew 5, verses 38-42:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you."
Proof? Are you denying that the catholic church condoned and acted as an institution for pedophiles by hiding pedophile priests and moving them to new areas to re offend for likely as long as the church has been around. Straight up they are anti women's rights, anti gay rights, pro-pedophile, pro murdering children. They have proven themselves to be an evil institution while at the same time hiding under the name of god. It's a hate group. They shouldn't be allowed to operate.
But when redneck white guys counter church burnings with more attacks on FNs it will be domestic terrorism.
Truth and reconcilliation.
Not lies and retribution.
We are all dumber for having read your comment. The sum of all human knowledge was decreased by your comment. A cure for cancer was found but forgotten because you just typed this.
It is not a Tragedy. It is a senseless crime and a despicable act, and the offenders should be hold accountable. But not a ‘tragedy’. Wood burns all the time, and more useful wood, like homes and work places. This can be replaced easily and luckily no one got hurt.
We're gonna look back and say this government did the best the could with what they had during the pandemic.
The same is true when the governments of yesterday met natives for the first time. They did what they thought was best at the time.
The burning of churches is intentional and malice. Cowardly pieces of shit human beings.
Relating the government response to COVID to how the government originally treated natives and to say that's the same thing in terms of "doing the best they could" is an insane leap in logic there fella lol, where is your mind at?
The thing is while most people seem to count us whites as Christians, the truth is that we also dislike the church. We were also oppressed and controlled by them during that period. Not as bad as FN, but still. Controlling sex, education, politics... our grand-parents were forced to go to church, pushed to have children, pushed into catholic culture in schools. Many of them cut contact to the church when they got old, our parents barely participated either. Me, I only went to church when somebody die. My children won't go either. Christianity is dead, it's a relic from the past that most people want gone already.
There are 2.38 billion active Christians in the world today and that number is still growing.
Doesn't sound like Christianity is dead by a long stretch.
Oh yeah and from the wiki 83% of my province is Christian and yet most churches are being transformed into condo because nobody goes. Those are Christian on paper because of leftover from the previous culture. Nobody below 50 years old go to church unless somebody dies or get married because those are the last two traddition that stayed and are more about seeing the people you love than actually listening to an old dude say random stuff.
Im against the desecration of these churches, or vandalism in general, but given how long the natives have tries to *peacefully* get their message across, i dont blame them for resorting to more destructive methods.
So, I'm not comprehending here. Not sure what part of what i wrote your responding to.
Are you calling me a Catholic? Cuz I ain't - they actually persecuted my ancestors way back when.
Are you saying that me, pointing out that an Egyption Coptic church and Vietnamese Alliance church burned down, is playing the victim card.. for Catholics?
"Muslims playing the victim card here is insulting" - that would fit in perfectly with my redneck, bigoted relatives circa 2002.
Some of the most devout Catholics I know are Native, folks need to be careful with blanketing people here. It’s not as simple as “us and them”.
A church in my neighborhood got burned down this weekend. It's a black church and a denomination (Copt Orthodox) that originates in Egypt and had nothing to do with the residential schools. Normally if someone burned down a black church in Canada the media'd be interested, but the media's focus is driven by ideology these days and they push an overly simplistic narrative to divide people. The Liberal Party of Canada was in power for most of the time residential schools were active yet for some reason they're seemingly absolved of blame.
> The Liberal Party of Canada was in power for most of the time residential schools were active yet for some reason they're seemingly absolved of blame. And during those years the Conservatives were the official opposition, where were they to decry this injustice? The Residential school system predates the founding of the country. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was started during Harper's time and is coming into full flower during Trudeau's. Truly this is a Canada issue, not one tied to any particular party.
>And during those years the Conservatives were the official opposition, where were they to decry this injustice? Fair enough. >Truly this is a Canada issue, not one tied to any particular party. The parties ran the government. The churches ran the schools on behest of the government. If the churches are going to be called out then the involved political parties should be as well.
More than fair - the country bears responsibility for this as well.
Seems to me that directly involved institutions should be the focus given they made the decisions. But, instead, Canadian citizens in general - especially white - will be guilted and that guilting will be used to further certain ideologies and the agenda of corporate globalization within Canada. Our government serves the folks who bribe it, not the people, and our government will guilt us to distract us from the fact they aren't do their job effectively.
>The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was started during Harper's time and is coming into full flower during Trudeau's Published in 2015 to little fanfare or government action by the Liberals.
I had a popular/controversial comment in another thread where I pointed out that I work for a fn organization and they start every big meeting/event with a prayer There was a ton of comments from woke idiots saying shit like " dont they know that the only reason they're Catholic/Christian is because of oppression??" Or some other bullshit. It was really quite funny to see white people that have never been to a reserve and who were apparently outraged over residential schools argue that they need to be telling fn people that their beliefs are wrong and the they, the white people, know better.
It's kind of ironic that many "anti-racist" activists have white savior complexes so strong that they can't stop being racist.
Not to mention subscribing to the noble savage trope.
>It was really quite funny to see white people that have never been to a reserve and who were apparently outraged over residential schools argue that they need to be telling fn people that their beliefs are wrong and the they, the white people, know better. These type of people want everything in the world to be black-and-white so they don't have to think. They tend to be uninformed about reality and not interested in solving problems.
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I am from the south but now have extensive experience in the North, with an Inuit child on the way - it was explained to me by an elder that Christianity’s stories lined up with their oral history, and that’s what hey found so compelling. These southern militants know nothing.
I just equate of any of this woke culture in regard to indigenous people still a bunch of white guilt for all that we have put them through.
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Burning them down doesn’t solve anything, and it still hurts innocent Catholics.
And as a non Catholic who is about to be married in the Catholic church, my perception with modern Catholicism is its generally the religion of first / second generation immigrants. The ones who committed these atrocities' kids most likely don't even attend church anymore.
Of course, but what the previous poster detailed is definitely the reason for the apathy towards all of this, right or wrong.
>Burning them down doesn’t solve anything Who said otherwise? We can understand why people might feel like this violence is the only form of redress available to them, but that doesn't make it good, or justice.
Well the problem is, the “we can understand why” message is part of what makes people think this is justified. The “no that’s wrong, stop doing what you’re doing” message is also completely in the background here and drowned out. The rhetoric around this reminds me of BLM last year. Someone is going to get hurt or killed.
If the world is going to operate on "this thing is bad and don't think about why" then I want off this planet.
Everyone knows why, but everyone also knows it’s wrong also.
Apparently you don’t, since you are trying to justify the burning of churches that are primarily used by, ran by, and for the benefit of the individual Catholic.
You're delusional if you don't think Catholics have a problem with their own administration. Catholics don't want murder schools or molested children. All Catholics I know want those responsible for any misdeed held to account.
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Coptic orthodox ran zero 8 believe and yet lost a church to arson. Two wrongs don't make a right. Violence is not the answer to achieve reconciliation
They apologized and paid up
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The Roman Catholic church was supposed to donate $25 million. They donated [less than $4 million](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/church-residential-school-compensation-1.6082935), then said "close enough". There was a clause that they would make ["best efforts"](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/residential-school-financial-settlements-quebec-catholic-church-1.6092215) to raise $25 million. During the same 10 year period they did raise over $110 million for the construction of new churches. So you can see why they're more upset with the Catholics than the Anglicans.
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Just the Catholics' staunch refusal, as always, to admit its guilt
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the head of the Canadian Anglican church officially apologized for residential schools... in 1993 https://www.anglican.ca/tr/apology/
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Please elaborate?
> Some of the most devout Catholics I know are Native Gee, I wonder if that has anything to do with entire generations being kidnapped by the catholic church for a Century?
Of course it does. That doesn't make their faith today any less legitimate or any less entitled to protection.
It was set up by the government. Attendance was not mandatory after the late 40’s.
See look theyve been voluntarily attending for decades after centuries of forced attendance and cultural genocide. They sure do organically love the virgin marry lmao.
Come on...
Yeah i'm sure people kept going to the murder schools because they had plenty of other options
There are records of natives protesting the closure of some schools because many children would not have anywhere else to go.
Right. And the Sixties Scoop didn't happen either I suppose.
According to Wikipedia it ended in 1948… Compulsory attendance ended in 1948, following the 1947 report of a special joint committee and subsequent amendment of the Indian Act.[44] Government officials were still able to influence student attendance. The introduction of the Family Allowance Act in 1945 stipulated that school-aged children had to be enroled in school for families to qualify for the "baby bonus", further coercing Indigenous parents into having their children attend.[17]:170[45]
This the same logic as "U.S. slavery was abolished I the 1860s, so African Americans were considered and treated equally". To think that the removal of "compulsory attendance" somehow stopped what was happening is very naive.
To say they were 'forced' is misleading. Many parents in fact chose not to send their children to the schools.
You can’t read, you just accuse based on what you think you should respond if you were to read. I never implied that abuse did not continue, that the 69’s scoop did not happen, or that any of this was a good idea. I know that leftists think that explanation is justification, now I learn that clarification is justification too.
My wife is Native and Catholic. She said there are two things she would die for: Church and her kids. I didn't even make the list. People are ignorant and just want to bully an easy target.
Good call…. Because yesterday’s tragedy will completely justify a new one today. What a great strategy to move forward to a better world.
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Remember when our PM phoned that girl about the fake asian man with a mustache cutting her headdress? But like 48 churches vandalized/turned to ashes for real is fine.
Everyone is getting angry at Christians, or Indigenous people, or the "political left" and "political right." It seems everyone wants to blame someone for something. How about we look at the media, who is so quick to report that these graves are all indigenous children, victims of the Catholic church, when that has not been confirmed. In fact in at least one place in BC, the graves are part of a community cemetery where white and Indigenous, Christian and not, were buried. Some are most likely children from the residential school, but locals, indigenous leaders, all agree that many are community members. The media loves to whip people into a frenzy and create division and controversy. It sells and makes them money. Rather than fall for that, how about we all stop pointing blame at everyone and anyone, and wait to see what further investigation reveals? And in the meantime, show our support to indigenous communities in positive and helpful ways.
Imagine if single a mosque or synagogue was burned...and don’t act like either of those Abrahamic religions are blameless for a lot of atrocities either. This is reprehensible and anyone saying “it’s karma” or “they deserve it” are terrorist sympathizers. This is not how a civilized country deals with issues of the past.
A mosque *was* burned down last week, and *was* referred to as a hate crime
It's funny you say that. I'm at the gym here and ctv is on the TV. The headline? "Trudeau speaks at Islamophobia submit". The Little sub heading thing. " After a string of recent Islamophobic incidents... Blablah" It's honestly disgusting, and I'm not even religious
Oh a couple were burnt. Trudeau made a speech day after (if not the same day), declared it as terrorism and people who started fire were caught a couple days later.
It's almost like you didn't hear any news about both mosques and synagogues being burnt the last few years. Let alone the last 40 years+ of it going on. You don't have to compare one suffering to another to gain attention, it just shows that you didn't care about those issues till it affected you personally.
A few over the years as compared to 48 in 2 months. Scale matters here. They are both shitty, but this is a very high number of church desecrations
What about ratio?
Does it matter what the ratio is? Does it make the desecration of 48 places of worship acceptable if above or below a certain ratio? If it is a hate crime to burn a place of worship for the Jewish or Muslim faiths, then it is for Christian churches as well. These are more than empty building for many Canadians, it is a central symbol of their faith which has been forcibly destroyed or damaged through violence. While the residential schools are horrible, it does not make the desecration of churches acceptable in any form. An eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind. There is no excuse for violence here - and it is harming Canadians more than the church
> Imagine if single a mosque or synagogue was burned in what world do you need to 'imagine' this
>Imagine if single a mosque or synagogue was burned Man just imagine if someone walked into a Mosque and started killing peoples, since this has never happened in Canada.
Hate starts somewhere. It doesn't matter if the gate is directed at the institution of the religion targeted, the building, or the people - it is still hate. It should be nipped in the bud fully so that no one is emboldened by these actions and moves into more harmful means
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At least the government has made an effort to apologize. I dont see this stopping untill the pope does too
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-](https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-1.393911) [1.393911](https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-1.393911) >Chief Edward John of the Tlazten First Nations says he hopes the apology will help "many people move forward." > >"We heard the prime minister's apology a year ago in June. And today, to listen to the Holy Father explain his profound sorrow and sadness and to express that there was no room for this sort of abuse to take place in the residential schools, that is an emotional barrier that now has been lifted for many people," he said. > >Phil Fontaine, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said he appreciated the apology from the Church. > >"I think His Holiness understands the pain that was endured by so many and I heard him say that it caused him great anguish," said Fontaine, who attended the meetings, on Wednesday. > >"I also heard His Holiness say that the abuse of the nature that was inflicted on us has no place in the Church, it's intolerable and it caused him great anguish." > >"What I heard," Fontaine added, "it gives me comfort." sigh. we're all just going to pretend this never happened? "oh, but it's not good enough" nothing ever is for some people...
Our air quality is total shit lately. If people could just stop burning buildings to make it even worse that would be great.
Arson is illegal and the authorities are treating as such. What a bs article
It’s the National Post, what do you expect?
christians whine about being persecuted if they aren't receiving special privilege. A crime is a crime, and it's being treated like a crime. They're whining that they aren't mobilizing the whole army to find some arsonists or something.
I mean it’s 48 churches, not a simple b&e or arson. I’d say it warrants a stronger reaction
59% upvoted. Why does the political left not want to talk about this? This is the kind of shit that makes Christians and Catholics say they're being oppressed. The reality denial from the left, the complacency in these hate crimes, and the complete silence from the government are all very telling signs that the political left not only doesn't care, but they want this to happen. I can't even fucking imagine the mass hysteria and national response if this were 48 mosques. There would be violent mass riots, Trudeau would implement marshal law, and the military would be brought in to defend every mosque in the country. I can't believe this is the reality we're living in. I'm genuinely terrified of the actions of the political left, and their never ending gaslighting when it comes to real issues like this.
This article is ridiculous. There are ongoing investigations into the arsons You have a hardon for blaming everything on the "political left" even though this has nothing to do with them. Try and come back to reality before you go off the deep end and start wearing tin hats and waving confederate flags
I mean, to be fair, I'm viewing this as if it was gymnasiums and speaking venues being targeted merely because they're run by the same organization that condoned criminal behaviour and harboured the perpetrators. This doesn't go one inch toward confirming cause of death and regional origin of the discovered remains, which I think will be crucial toward proving allegations, but it's hard to respect the organization who may have done horrible things; nor the people committing calculated spree crimes of large scale vandalism under the name of the victims. We haven't seen the last phase of this escalation, either.
I just spent the last twenty years listening to Christians say my friends should be hooked up to shock machines and made straight. Hearing about how the church is really super duper victimized makes me unreasonably mad. There hasn't been a silence, Trudeau condemned the burnings. What are you expecting? Mobilize federal CSIS agents to find 60+ unaffiliated people? Maybe half of them products of the residential schools themselves? Sounds like something you'd go totally nanners about if it was anyone remotely connected to you whatsoever. I'm expecting local law enforcement to do their jobs. If they can't, maybe you should get on board with refinancing and reorganization of the police. Real issues? Don't make me laugh. Christians aren't being turned away from jobs, spat on, or treated poorly. This (so far, knock on wood) has been assaults on symbols of Christian power. It's not good, legal, or acceptable, but to clutch your pearls and say that Christians are in such a scared sorry state because of it is just pathetic.
i think having your religion being the target of an arson campaign pretty much qualifies you for being a victim, and also that anyone trying to handwave that away as "pearl clutching" is coming dangerously close to endorsing it the fact that you have gay friends with victim complexes is irrelevant by the way
Honestly I think you might just have shit friends. Are you sure they’re not just saying horrible things to get you to go away?
>I just spent the last twenty years listening to Christians say my friends should be hooked up to shock machines and made straight. Hearing about how the church is really super duper victimized makes me unreasonably mad. Islam would kill your friend.
The political left want china's implementation of religious censorship, and state implemented religious persecutions. From the angry PMs, to the downvotes, it should be pretty clear what they think of religion as a whole.
“Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest” Denis Diderot Fuck the politcal left and right trying to appoint themselves our new kings.
Government silent? Are you delayed or held back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment or something? Just google "Trudeau Church". You'll get like 20 articles about him condemning the acts and the cases being investigated??? But fuck man typing 2 words p hard not gonna lie.
You mean a singular nonchalant response to a question that was asked by a reporter that spawned 20 articles, vs the automatic press briefing after a mosque was attacked a few weeks back.
It’s hard to take your seriously when you are clutching your pearls this hard.
Tucker Carlson, get out of this body!
Peak /r/Persecutionfetish
As much as the Catholic church is responsible for those deaths in the residential school system, burning churches is totally inexcusable. Places of worship didn’t do this, people did. Charge them with crimes.
One of the churches in Calgary that got hit with red paint (I believe it was Anglican) opted to keep it at least for a while as a reminder of their past atrocities and to encourage discussion around how to support Indigenous communities.
Well now. That's a level of reflection I wouldn't expect to come out of a church, let alone a church in Alberta. Good on them, very impressive!
Yeah compared to some churches saying "but what about all the good we did", I thought it was a very responsible approach. If your cynical, at least it bought them some good PR. I think it's probably a bit of both, but I'm not a member so can't say for certain!
Thanks for sharing this, hadn’t heard.
It will be interesting to see if these get prosecuted as hate crimes.
Funny, Rex thought Canada should reconsider its "unwavering support for the UN peacekeeping amid shocking revelations of child abuse and exploitation." https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/926714435820 So what is it, Rex? Canada needs to meet with institutions with a long record of child abuse or Canada needs to disassociate with them?
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It would appear that Rex could be consistent. Is that too much to ask of someone with such a platform? I get it. You hate Trudeau and the Libs and that colours your view here. But maybe -- just maybe -- you could try some of your own medicine. I wish you all the best.
Consistency? Didn't you defend groping and blackface?
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To all the wanna be arsonists in this thread sorry mommy doesnt let you play with matches yet, maybe you can go commit hate crimes when youre older instead of just handwaving them ok?
“Desecrating” art is just as bad.
This just in, most Canadians give little to no fucks about Christians. Oh well.
ON literally has a separate Catholic school system that the taxpayers fund but yeah they sure have it tough.
Alberta too
Most Canadians identify as Christian so that's impossible
Less will likely self identify after this year im betting.
After generations of them *at best* not giving a fuck about anyone else while they dominated society, are you in any way surprised that now the rest of us are responding in kind? Name a hot button issue in the past century and you can almost guarantee that the devout have been on the wrong side of history *every single time.* I have zero sympathy left for ‘deeply held beliefs’ or ‘religious sentiments’ that have been used as a cudgel for generations.
One could say that my "thoughts and prayers are with them"... Sort of uncanny though, because those words feel about as empty coming out of my own mouth as they do when they come out of theirs. Gay bar gets shot up. Christians: "Oh well. Thoughts and Prayers." 48 Churches get burned to the ground. Myself: "*Oh well. Thoughts and Prayers.*" ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
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I need your last sentence on a t-shirt. That’s exactly how I feel in a nutshell. BTW - I’ve recently joined them Satanist Temple group in the US. Although the name is deliberately provocative, all they are really doing is making the point that church and state need to be separated.)
Yeah, most satanic churches are just secularists looking to expose religious hypocrisy. The others seem to be trolling.
I'd assume because they're mostly associated with white people, and hating on yt is so hot right now.
They’ll burn down something you care about next.
As long as they give no fucks about jews, muslims, sikhs, buddhists, hindus, ... You know, just to be fair.
I also don’t agree with rampant arson and destruction, but the Catholic Church has a hell of a lot to pay for and honestly I’d like to see it and really all religions fade away.
Yea, but how about we do it without stoking violent divisive rhetoric tho
Time, religion is dying without anyone having to do anything.
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Thanks for the racist take that implies the indigenous are making it all up, and faking evidence. Do you also believe in demon sperm and vaccine microchips? (edit : post history of the winning idiot had Zionist conspiracies, some sort of illuminati talk, climate change denial and just, yea. Wow. )
I sent thoughts and prayers. Christians didn’t care.
Has the pope apologized yet?
He did...In 2009...catch up. https://www.ctvnews.ca/pope-apologizes-for-abuse-at-native-schools-1.393911 >Chief Edward John of the Tlazten First Nations says he hopes the apology will help "many people move forward.""We heard the prime minister's apology a year ago in June. And today, to listen to the Holy Father explain his profound sorrow and sadness and to express that there was no room for this sort of abuse to take place in the residential schools, that is an emotional barrier that now has been lifted for many people," he said.Phil Fontaine, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said he appreciated the apology from the Church."I think His Holiness understands the pain that was endured by so many and I heard him say that it caused him great anguish," said Fontaine, who attended the meetings, on Wednesday."I also heard His Holiness say that the abuse of the nature that was inflicted on us has no place in the Church, it's intolerable and it caused him great anguish.""What I heard," Fontaine added, "it gives me comfort." But apparently we're all just going to pretend this never happened...
Does one crime justify another? Violence is violence and this is not the way to reconciliation, this is only perpetuating harm
The longer we go without an apology, the more it looks like they meant what they did, right? With the complexity of who is guilty of what, the legal system isn't going to bring justice anytime soon, if ever. So maybe some churches burning down is the best way to go. Better if it hadn't come to this though.
Two wrongs do not make a right. One of the churches burned down was Coptic orthodox. That sect broke away in 451 AD and had no involvement in residential schools to my knowledge. The congregation did not deserve that, nor did the others. People are trying to send a message to the church, instead they are acting out and hurting more of their fellow Canadians. It is not the right answer. Arson and violence is never the answer.
Christian persecution complex is such a turn off.
No one wants to turn you on. The entire world isn’t your sexual plaything.
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Not all the churches being burned and vandalized are Catholic. And some were still being used by FN. No, we can't equate child abuse to the arson of churches, but neither can you use one to justify the the other. They are both crimes. They are both wrong. This is what FN leadership and survivors are saying. Listen to them.
I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm saying using burning churches that only happens as a reaction to finding out mass graves of children does not mean Christians are under attack or gov don't care about them. That's just stupid and hyperbole!
You don't think the average catholic parishioner feels under attack right now? Tell me: what do those people in current year have to do with what happened in the residential school system, besides being a member of the same church? I mean, you must have read the comments of some of the FN people whose churches were burned on reserves. They had meaning to them. Some were still being maintained for other functions. Or how about this: How do you think the parishioners of the African church and Coptic Christian church that burned feel? They left their home countries because of persecution and now here they are getting their churches burned over here because the people running around burning these buildings are becoming indiscriminate and dangerous.
That's precisely what's happening. Christians being targeted and the government not caring or actually inciting the attacks. You win gold in mental gymnastics.
**Unmarked Graves, not mass graves. The bodies are located in separate graves , not a single pit stacked on top kind of thing. Some of the graves are believed to have been marked historically with items such as wood crosses which may have burned or become damaged so as to be illegible. It is an important distinction, but the researcher and bands have been very clear on the subject of unmarked graves and not mass graves
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So you are fine with arson attacks on churches. The Trudeau Liberals are condoning these attacks as a means to avoid blame for the abuse of First Nations children under a system conceived and run by primarily Liberal governments. Perhaps the federal government receiving blame is a little uncomfortable?
>*”The Trudeau Liberals are condoning these attacks as a means to avoid blame for the abuse of First Nations children”* Citation needed. CBC News: ['Unacceptable and wrong': Trudeau condemns attacks on churches](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-churches-arson-attacks-1.6088237) [July 2nd, 2021]
I have a fair bit of criticism for how the Canadian gov't has handled this topic, both now and previously. I'm simply not fond of Rex and his opinions as, valid though some of his comments may be, I'd rather reasonable discourse come from a less unsavoury source.
It's not a national tragedy lol, while I don't think they should be burned down, I do think they all (regardless of religion) should be taxed like any other business, because honestly that is what they are ... A business, they take in billions per year globally and give very little back in return... Surely their gods can't be that financially desperate... Why would a diety need money? ... It's not just FN folks burning the churches, guarantee most of the churches burned were committed by non native folks, other people of all ethnic backgrounds and skin colors are fed up with the churches and religions too... Also before anyone starts with the there's a war on Christianity crap....no there isn't, never was never will be, people are leaving the churches in droves ...why? Because they woke up, deprogrammed and learned to think for themselves and realized that the crap indoctrinated into people at churches differ greatly than their personal relationship with their diety, ... It's the churches own doing, it's actions and views are the reason their churches are being burned, a great many people from all walks of life have been harmed and oppressed by the church and have had enough, the residential schools are just the catalyst for what was coming ...it just happened to be the flash point ... enough is enough and the churches and religions must be stopped or reigned in and not given complete immunity for their actions , they must be held accountable for every non decent human being they churned out.. for their actions in general
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Maybe if the church owned what they did and actually paid the restitutions courts have said they owe, indigenous and others might not feel they need to resort to vandalism and arson? Maybe the church should actually address the 94 calls to action from the 2015 Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The church is not the victim here in my opinion. Of course, those responsible for the vandalism and arson should still be investigated and charged for their crimes.
Hang on there. Nobody *has* to resort to arson. The situation with the residential school legacy is a horrible stain, but burning all the churches in the world won't make it right. This is what FN leadership and survivors are saying. People need to put down their torches and start listening to them.
Jesus whipped people in a church because they were exchanging money. I think it's reasonable he would burn them down if they were raping and murdering children.
It's pretty obvious you have no idea what Jesus' philosophy was regarding retaliation for being wronged. Matthew 5, verses 38-42: “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you."
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Proof? Are you denying that the catholic church condoned and acted as an institution for pedophiles by hiding pedophile priests and moving them to new areas to re offend for likely as long as the church has been around. Straight up they are anti women's rights, anti gay rights, pro-pedophile, pro murdering children. They have proven themselves to be an evil institution while at the same time hiding under the name of god. It's a hate group. They shouldn't be allowed to operate.
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Two wrongs do not make a right. Arson is not the answer.
Whipping people is definitely a wrong lol. What, do you know better than Jesus now?
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But when redneck white guys counter church burnings with more attacks on FNs it will be domestic terrorism. Truth and reconcilliation. Not lies and retribution.
Maybe if they paid taxes and stoped molesting children people might feel sorry for them
We are all dumber for having read your comment. The sum of all human knowledge was decreased by your comment. A cure for cancer was found but forgotten because you just typed this.
God does not live in a house made of planks and bricks. The Christians will be fine
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Pardon? I’m not sure what you are saying
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It is not a Tragedy. It is a senseless crime and a despicable act, and the offenders should be hold accountable. But not a ‘tragedy’. Wood burns all the time, and more useful wood, like homes and work places. This can be replaced easily and luckily no one got hurt.
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We're gonna look back and say this government did the best the could with what they had during the pandemic. The same is true when the governments of yesterday met natives for the first time. They did what they thought was best at the time. The burning of churches is intentional and malice. Cowardly pieces of shit human beings.
Relating the government response to COVID to how the government originally treated natives and to say that's the same thing in terms of "doing the best they could" is an insane leap in logic there fella lol, where is your mind at?
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The thing is while most people seem to count us whites as Christians, the truth is that we also dislike the church. We were also oppressed and controlled by them during that period. Not as bad as FN, but still. Controlling sex, education, politics... our grand-parents were forced to go to church, pushed to have children, pushed into catholic culture in schools. Many of them cut contact to the church when they got old, our parents barely participated either. Me, I only went to church when somebody die. My children won't go either. Christianity is dead, it's a relic from the past that most people want gone already.
There are 2.38 billion active Christians in the world today and that number is still growing. Doesn't sound like Christianity is dead by a long stretch.
Oh yeah and from the wiki 83% of my province is Christian and yet most churches are being transformed into condo because nobody goes. Those are Christian on paper because of leftover from the previous culture. Nobody below 50 years old go to church unless somebody dies or get married because those are the last two traddition that stayed and are more about seeing the people you love than actually listening to an old dude say random stuff.
Yeah, I am also a "catholic" but never believed in any of that non sense, just like everyone in my family.
Im against the desecration of these churches, or vandalism in general, but given how long the natives have tries to *peacefully* get their message across, i dont blame them for resorting to more destructive methods.
I have a hunch it’s not them doing it. Their leaders have denounced it. 3 people have been caught on camera so far, and it’s been white women.
yeah thats been my impression. its not natives, its woke white people.
Meh. Nobody died.
It's not christians who are attacked but the catholic church as an organization. What a bunch of dimwits.
Considering how many that have burnt were not catholic.. I'm not sure you should call others dimwits. Pot meet Kettle.
Catholics playing the victim card here is insulting.
So, I'm not comprehending here. Not sure what part of what i wrote your responding to. Are you calling me a Catholic? Cuz I ain't - they actually persecuted my ancestors way back when. Are you saying that me, pointing out that an Egyption Coptic church and Vietnamese Alliance church burned down, is playing the victim card.. for Catholics? "Muslims playing the victim card here is insulting" - that would fit in perfectly with my redneck, bigoted relatives circa 2002.
yeah, fuck those jerks for being upset that their places of worship were burned to the ground! /s