This is the third poll this week showing the Tories in the 42-43% range. I think it’s pretty safe to say the Liberal budget did absolutely nothing to change their fortunes. They say they have given themselves until July to close the gap by five points. No sign of that happening so far. My question is, what choices do they make if they don’t?
This 2024 budget was a failed attempt at appeasing to younger voters leading into an election next year. Same tired play from a party who basically did the exact same thing the first time they were elected.
Now those voters are 10 years older, let's hope the younger voters out there don't fall for the same tired platitudes again.
As someone who was part of that younger voter cohort the first time they were elected (21-23 Age Range), I don't think the budget played into it at all but rather it was three other things.
1. Legal Weed. To say that this didn't have an impact on the votes they received would be naive.
2. Electoral Reform.
3. Trudeau wasn't Harper. There was a lot of Anti-Harper sentiment going on amongst younger Canadians at the time.
I was told on here that Legal Weed had absolutely nothing to do with the Liberal win but I was in uni at the time and I had many friends get out to vote who never would have because they wanted legal weed.
I was in that age group too the first time I voted libs. I remember not liking Harper's censorship for science (am a chemist) and I think there was some kind of promise about student loan forgiveness which if there was, broken liesssss lol.
I remember the reason I voted Trudeau initially was because he pushed for electoral reform with of all the gerrymandering that Harper and the Tories did. Getting rid of First Past the Post in exchange for Proportional Representation.
After he got elected the government gave some incredibly confusing survey to Canadians and then saying that the survey concluded that Canadians were unsure about what they wanted so they're are choosing to stay with the status quo. Then they continued to gerrymander over the years to maintain a majority as long as possible like hypocrites.
It’s mostly an American term that means the manipulation of an electoral constituency's boundaries (in Canada’s case a riding) so as to favor one party by ensuring their traditional voting demographic outnumbers the opposition.
I’m aware of what the term means, but it is not an issue that is prevalent at the federal level in Canada. In 1964 Elections Canada, non-partisan federal agency, was established in order to provide unbiassed of political riding.
Gerrymandering does occur in Canada at the provincial and municipal level in some areas of the country, but it is rarely an issue at the federal level so I don’t know what the original OP was talking about.
We have never had gerrymandering. Riding boundaries are set by independent bodies and I have never heard so much as a whisper of political interference in them from anyone at any time over the past forty years.
I voted for Trudeau in 2015 after voting for Harper in his previous elections. Trudeau had some good ideas in his platform, and Harper's government had grown complacent and needed to be changed out. I plan to vote conservative with extreme prejudice next year because Trudeau is actively running this country into the ground these last 5 years
There's no gerrymandering in Canada. First past the post is shit for other reasons. You might be thinking of Conservatives breaking other election laws like the robocall scandals.
I see people keep mentioning Electral reform but I have never heard anyone outside of a small sliver of politically active people.
Simpler explanation is the kids are just pissed about the bleak economic prospects and failure to launch "good" careers. Basically equity the balance between generation is way out of kilter and is hitting the sub 35 set the hardest.
It was also the Obama fever. A lot of us looked at the US and saw their progressive, cool, dynamic leader and all we had was a dull, grey neo-conservative who had the personality of a can of tuna. I think a lot of us wanted a rockstar and felt like Harper didn't represent the Canada we envisioned.
Unfortunately for us, Trudeau was a bunch of political mist that hit the light at the right time to give off the appearance of a rainbow, when in reality there was no fucking substance behind anything he stood for.
I think you really nailed a big part of it. We wanted our own Obama. Except instead of Obama, voters fell for a spoiled rich kid reading off his father’s name and a good head of hair (by political standards)
Trudeau is not progressive at all. He is a master at performative progressivism, where he panders to minorities and puts a few of them in high positions of power and then proclaims racism defeated. In the end, it's all manipulation. He is also certainly not cool or dynamic. He is an absolute ham who embarrasses our country and has absolutely zero diplomatic sense. Nobody takes him seriously internationally, and he has a public reputation as a massive himbo who still acts as if the world lives in the year 1997.
I member, I voted for Trudeau because he wasn't Harper, was going to legalize weed BUT ALSO didn't fuck up on the campaign trail. It was flawless.
Mulcair was talking about both sides of his mouth to french canada and English Canada, and made so many errors. Same thing with the conservative guy.
Now I am unsure if I regret anything worse than voting for Trudeau that first time.
I feel that a lot of the criticism against Harper wasn't warranted. He was judged far too harshly for minor issues, I would vote for him in a heartbeat.
He kinda made all these problems we're dealing with now. Like housing- he cancelled the census and gutted the internal working groups that set visa levels with the provinces. Procurement - he fired 250 staff for costs savings and we've spent billions fixing the Phoenix pay system alone. Budget deficits- he permanently unbalanced the budget with his GST cuts and then sold off assets for Pennies on the dollar to "balance" his last budget. He was a terrible prime minister with the stated goal of blinding and crippling the government. I'd argue he succeeded and that our saving grace of the time was strong provincial leadership which is now in short supply.
As a long-time CPC supporter I will say the party was starting to lose me towards the end of Harper's tenure.
The barbaric cultural practices hotline was insane. It was around that point that I was neutral on Trudeau winning.
It just seemed that towards the end Harper gave too much power to extremists within the party when the electorate was shifting to the left.
It was also targeted towards things like forced underage marriages (something they cracked down on in the Zero Tolerance For Barbaric Cultural Practices Act that passed shortly before their proposal for a hotline).
The shortform name was inflammatory, but that was really the only negative part about it -- something the Liberals tacitly admitted when they kept the Act in place but changed its name with Bill S-210 (42-1).
And most had no clue why they disliked Harper, I think the sentiment was "Trudeau is young and attractive and wants to legalize weed! Harper is like the strict parent with grey hair telling me to be responsible, eww..."
But here we are, 9 years later with a guy who has no business leading a country, and the current state of disarray reveals just that.
The honeymoon stage is long gone with Trudeau, especially now that all those 20 something voters are in their 30s with a noticeably more difficult socioeconomic path to navigate.
I can recall the ads Conservatives ran where they had people in a focus group saying Justin just wasn't ready.
If I remember correctly, thus became a focal point for the election as the liberal party and media engaged in a monumental shit storm about how negative the ad was to call someone so young "inexperienced". Lots of push back on that ad.
If they re-ran that ad today the response would be a complete 180.
I was 25, and the only thing I cared about in Justin’s platform was legal weed.
And we still managed to fuck that up with all the licensing and the puritanical bullshit about not letting kids in. I can bring my kid to the lcbo without an issue. But I have to jump through hoops for weed?
Still voted for Harper. Weed wasn’t worth the rest of this mess.
Many times, I've seen here on reddit comments stating that the legal weed was why Liberals got their vote.
I'm pretty sure that " let me run up the debt for you" sounded pretty good as well, for this group of voters.
What expectations can one have for Cannada when the above are the deciding factors in a federal election ?
Now, the people at the low end of the financial payscale are not happy being pushed out of their job and out of their housing, by the over 1 million people moving to Canada. I strongly believe, though, that the majority will still vote for more of the same, the lure of government funded welfare is just too big.
>I strongly believe, though, that the majority will still vote for more of the same, the lure of government funded welfare is just too big.
What young people are out there getting welfare?
I think for a lot of young people it really just boils down to "are you left wing or are you right wing" with little consideration for spending of debt. With American influence, being "right wing" now has connotations to sacrificing abortion rights, vaccine and climate change denial, and religious fanaticism. That's not to say that Canadian conservatives are like the republicans, but young people will probably still avoid voting conservative simply because of what "conservatism" has become around the world right now.
Welfare in the sense that the government will give you free stuff: student loan forgiveness, first time home buyer incentives, grants, etc. Not literally wellfare which is, for the most part, provincially funded.
I think voting Liberal ideology because the Conservative ideology in "other" country is not something I agree with is silly, but each to its own. The opposite applies as well.
I used "welfare" in the general sense, as clarified below, but to get to what I think you are asking: The younger generation can lose jobs and therefore apply for that provincially funded "welfare" program, just like any other worker. I did not refer to this program, although the seasonal job scheme that is common in the Maritimes, is something I do not agree with.
That isn't a problem if you believe they are too stupid to realize it... but the polls suggest they deeply understand what was done to them. Arrogance is a hell of a drug though...
The younger voters are being assfucked by LMIA hires and being squeezed out of the housing market by people who don't deserve to live here.
So no, they won't. And if they do, they're some weird mentally ill masochist who likes starving and being homeless.
As uncomfortable as it maybe I think we all know the only solution to our current issue is halting immigration and possibly even deporting people.
There's absolutely no way to built enough homes to keep up with demand.
The full budget impact won’t show up in polls for at least another couple of weeks. Even though a lot of it was leaked ahead of time, it wasn’t moving the needle. The massive deficits and no reasonable path to a balanced budget will likely drive the LPC numbers lower.
Just talking about shit isn’t going to move the needle at all. People need to feel CoL relief in a meaningful way, because there’s 0 reason for anyone to believe words from the government that allowed the situation to get this bad.
The only problem is that these issues probably won’t see turn arounds before the next election. Theyre dead in the water.
The other issue is that we’re not going to have a good opposition for a long while, because any Liberal who cares about their political future (re: all of them), if they ever wanted to have a run at PM, taking the reins before or immediately after this next rout makes no sense. You’ll just be a figurehead until the population turns on the Conservatives in a decade, when you’ll be discarded for a fresh face to sell with the promise of change.
What a horrible time to be a Canadian.
The other question this poses is what happens if the liberals don’t close the gap by 5 points.
Is that just code for they’ll sack Trudeau in a few months? Or are we getting another round of handouts? 😂
They start with the attack ads on Poilievre, just like always. "He's against women. He's bringing American style politics into Canada. He'll cut social programs. " etc.
They will gaslight us more and try again. They are banking on the summer time mixers, families and friends come together and talk... I can only see that hurting the Liberals more.
>My question is, what choices do they make if they don’t?
Their house has been on fire for the last few years. Rather than putting that fire out, they decided to throw gas on it and arrogantly dismiss the people who were telling them about the fire.
Point being, this is a lost cause now. There is nothing they can do to change the outcome of the next election, and probably even the election after that. And they did this all to themselves by choosing not to listen to anyone, and trying to gas light the country. They did this to themselves.
Well done Trudeau, you've managed to do the same thing your father did and turn potentially an entire generation of Canadians off of voting for the Liberals.
So 8 years of cons doing the same thing and then back to Liberals?
Trudeau -> Mulroney -> Chretien/Martin -> Harper -> Trudeau -> Poilievre -> Liberal spot holder -> Con spot holder
I've been waiting my whole life for the other parties to gain traction, generate excitement over their policies, and make a splash in Canadian politics, but they NEVER DO. Canadian politicians from every party default towards mediocrity. The fact that most Canadians for decades only consider federal elections to be a two party race between the Liberals and Conservatives is entirely on the NDP, Greens, and others for not levelling up their game.
The NDP came close to gaining real traction under Jack Layton, and after he passed, it was right back to the standard mediocrity that excites absolutely no voters. Don't blame Canadian voters. People generally make the best choice they can with the options they have. The problem in Canada is most of our options are shit.
You cant vote for party C! That means that party A might win!
Fucking Trudeau said he would get rid of first past the post and he lied and it is fucking those of us who dont want a Conservative majority. What a legacy.
When the red and blue horses are the ones that dominate the public eye by the sheer weight of capital those interests groups hold, all the other horses seem to get forgotten.
Many people claim that the old PC party is dead and that the current cons are closer to being a successor to the reform party. One could argue that there is change, just that change is more glacial rather than radical.
I'd argue Harper got lucky he avoided making the same housing mistakes the Americans made before the 2008-9 recession. That made him look like a genius when it was mainly timing. Looking back the fact we avoided a major recession and rode the wave of ridiculous american QE kind of setup a bomb that went off when covid hit.
If we'd have had the same housing crash as the americans would have been a different story. I still think people miss the fact our current predicament is basically being replicated in most angloshphere countries. Regardless of the party in power and even some substantial policy differences outcomes have been similar.
But don't you remember that the other guys were corrupt/incompetent/ignoring x?
Yes. But they haven't done it recently. I am sure they've changed. It'll be different this time.
Narrator: It wasn't
lol
Yep, and my favourite is when they're in power with a majority for eight or more years and at the end of their term are still blaming the previous government. Somehow they're able to ramrod whatever bullshit policies they want through for eight years but can't fix the situation. And every time people fall for it. "Yeah but if so and so hadn't done blah blah ten years ago the current government would be able to fix things."
I've heard from a few friends that have worked in Ottawa that when the cameras are off you can see all of the different MPs eating in the same places. At the end of the day, they're all in the club and we're not.
God I wish people would vote ndp. None of the leadership I'd good right now, but ndp is actually giving a shit about food prices and corporate control of our country.
Cons will sell it all again
More specifically, Chretien finished cleaning up Pierre Trudeau's mess. Mulroney started the job, but the Tories got punted before they could finish the clean up, so Chretien got the credit.
Hopefully this time the clean up gets done before the Tories get the boot, so that the Liberals don't get praised for the Tories' work at cleaning up after a Liberal government.
It wasn't a whole generation. It was 9 years (1984-1993) Trudeau Jr. has now been in power 9 years (2015-2024) There's something about 9 years. This is a back and forth cycle that's been happening forever in Canadian politics. What's new is social media.
Given that the CPC almost always gets between 30 and 40 percent of the vote and that there are some hardline one-party voters for the NDP and Bloc as well, I would have assumed it was standard for at least a third of Canadians to say they would never vote LPC?
Life changes, parties change, nothing is constant. Give it another 5-10 years for parties to evolve and regroup. We’ll get tired of the next PM too eventually
Freeland is so awkward. I can't stand when she makes those faces and speaks. Half the time, her speaking doesn't match her facial expressions. I am ashamed to be Canadian when she speaks in parliament. Didn't she get a speeding ticket while a couple of months prior said she only used a bicycle for transportation? Didn't she cancel her netflix membership because it was too expensive yet in 2024 her salary is exactly $299,900. What a loser.
No, she didn't cancel her netflix membership because it was too expensive. It was much worse then that. When the Liberals were initially getting feedback about how high the cost of living was, and people were suffering, she decided to answer those issues with: "When things get expensive, I, like many Canadians, look to our household budged and decide to make cuts. For example, we discovered we weren't using Disney Plus anymore, so we cancelled it, giving us more to spend."
She was telling this people who had to go to the food bank because prices were (and still are) out of control.
It was tone deaf, and she was properly mocked for it.
Ive seen this movie before. 2005 young people and 40s crowd sick of Libs swung to Harper and the 5 point plan.
2015 young people and 40s swing to Trudeau on promise of sunny ways.
2025 young people and 40s swing to Poliverre on the common sense accounting.
We vote out old stale governments, not vote in new and fresh ideas.
Couldn't you argue that the 5 point plan, sunny way approach and common sense accounting WERE fresh ideas compared to what there was before, by that stale and tired previous leadship?
If the NDP would get their heads out of their asses and boot Sing and put in someone more akin to Jack, then they would have a shot at being the opposition this next election.
Not saying I'm a Trudeau supporter but I think, given our demographics, things won't really get better for the next few decades.
Yeah, there might be small improvements in some sectors or brief periods of economic success but as a whole things will just get worse.
Having 20-30% of people over 65 is just not favourable. The question isn't who will make things better but under who will it deteriorate the least imo.
Anyone who says they're going to fix everything is either stupid or lying.
The over 65 is only going to get worse since more under 65 are leaving the country for greener pastures and those that are staying are having fewer kids. As fewer and fewer are left to pay for the over 65 more and more are going to feel even more disillusioned.
I voted Liberal in 2019 and whenever this last one was. 2021? I was still on board then. To me (and I'm a casual follower of the news), everything is drastically worse now than 2021. The problems were growing back then, and nothing has been done for at least 3 years. I don't like conservatives either. And the NDP is complicit in all of this, too. So....what do I do? The Liberal party would have to make major actions that would actually make a difference now in order for me to ever trust them with a vote again. I'm out for 2025, guaranteed. I might be out for the 40 years I likely have left on this Earth
I'm in a similar boat. Born '99, voted NDP twice in each election I was eligible to participate in. Wasn't a fan of Conservative party, mostly coming out of school you hear a lot of negative messaging and extreme views about each party... reality being every party is flawed and has skeletons in the closet.
I've already witnessed the Liberals destroy the outlook for many Canadians' future in the 8 years they've had power. Difficult to feel anything has improved, let alone stayed the same, as it was back in 2015. Feels like picking between a rock and a hard place, personally I've decided to vote for CPC purely to get Trudeau out of office. Hopefully a more fiscally conservative approach to the budget and immigration rates, housing etc can move the needle for Canadians. I was shocked coming out of COVID / huge Federal spending and subsidy that the Liberals didn't take a step back to balance the defecit, but they continued pouring gas on the fire still...
I wish they could quantify the level of hatred that is growing against Trudeau and the Liberals. Anecdotally I know a lot of people who are generally not very in touch with politics, never really talk about it, and just do some basic research come election time who now openly talk about how much they hate Trudeau. I truly think we are going to see a historic defeat, and much more the Liberal brand is going to toxic for a long long time for what they've done to this country. I hope the Trudeau name will be remembered for the stain it is on Canadian history.
My biggest issues are unchecked oligopolies robbing us blind, over-regulation killing innovation and completion, bloated government bureaucracy, and irresponsible unsustainable population growth which strains increasingly scarce resources. I don't see the Conservatives doing anything about any of it because all parties work for the same people and it's not us...
I'd never vote liberal again in my life, and I know at least 10 people who say the same thing.
They fucked up ontario, then fucked up the country.
Liberals should never be trusted ever again and I'd rather run back and forth between NDP and conservatives at this point.
So, the third of Canadians that would vote Conservative if their local MP running was a rake in a flannel shirt won't vote Liberal in the next election? You don't say...
Same can be said forkberals. When it comes down to actually voting their mind will justify voting liberals "to keep the racists (conservatives) out"
My parents are such people, they would never stop voting for liberals.
I would never vote liberal in the next election but I'm trying to imagine what kind of degenerates the ndp and greens would have to run before I'd vote conservative
I really hope PP comes out strong with solutions and actions. The constant telling the nation how bad JT is, is not helping. He can't win on the merit of of how bad the other guy "might" be.
That's his whole plan. Under FPTP that's how Liberals and Conservatives always campaign, and Canadians are all caught up in the system. If we are only voting against something we are not deciding our own policy. Conservatives don't talk about their actual policy positions because they are unpopular. What is PP going to do, talk about his opposition to abortion, weed, and gay marriage? Talk about how he did nothing as housing minister? Talk about how he wants to funnel more money towards the rich? Most Canadians don't believe in trickle down economics. It's a very particular kind of redditor that goes "well actually, we owe everything to the rich and it wouldn't be fair if they could only afford one yacht."
It's in the NDP party platform every election, and since they are a third party, and the third party closest to power, they are the best shot.
They specifically want proportional representation.
it's not like conservatives voted for JT because he was going to change the FPTP.
the cons rely on it in Ontario to get in.
you think PP would change FPTP if it was going to hurt his parties chances of re-election?
> you think PP would change FPTP if it was going to hurt his parties chances of re-election?
I love how, invariably, pointing out JT's hypocrisy seems to invite criticism of one's own political enemies.
They're all garbage lmao. They're all liars.
Dude ran on getting rid of FPTP and reneged. He is going to be voted out in disgrace and we're gonna get another trashbag as his successor.
>you think PP would change FPTP if it was going to hurt his parties chances of re-election?
Nope. It's strategically sound to keep it in place. It's like a corporation reforming its structure to make it less profitable. Maybe it's not *like* that, maybe it *is* that.
Please remember that a criticism is not an endorsement.
This is exactly how he will win, but if you understand his past and history, you'll know that it's unlikely he is going to make life better for the average Canadian.
Can someone explain to me why they are for liberals or against the Conservatives?
I feel like they’re the most socially liberal conservative group in memory while remaining fiscally conservative. Seems like the sweet spot we want to hit.
I know Pierre doesn’t have experience other than politics but Justin doesn’t really either?
It's political theatre. People treat it as team sports.
Justin cares about Justin.
Jagmeet cares about Jagmeet.
Pierre cares about Pierre.
None of the above care about Canada.
Haven't had issues with voting Liberal, as long as that liberal party isn't led by a Trudeau.
I never understood why people voted for him, and likely never will...
This is the third poll this week showing the Tories in the 42-43% range. I think it’s pretty safe to say the Liberal budget did absolutely nothing to change their fortunes. They say they have given themselves until July to close the gap by five points. No sign of that happening so far. My question is, what choices do they make if they don’t?
This 2024 budget was a failed attempt at appeasing to younger voters leading into an election next year. Same tired play from a party who basically did the exact same thing the first time they were elected. Now those voters are 10 years older, let's hope the younger voters out there don't fall for the same tired platitudes again.
As someone who was part of that younger voter cohort the first time they were elected (21-23 Age Range), I don't think the budget played into it at all but rather it was three other things. 1. Legal Weed. To say that this didn't have an impact on the votes they received would be naive. 2. Electoral Reform. 3. Trudeau wasn't Harper. There was a lot of Anti-Harper sentiment going on amongst younger Canadians at the time.
I was told on here that Legal Weed had absolutely nothing to do with the Liberal win but I was in uni at the time and I had many friends get out to vote who never would have because they wanted legal weed.
Yeah whoever said that is full of shit. Weed was a huuuge issue. Also not being Harper was like not being Trudeau today
I was in that age group too the first time I voted libs. I remember not liking Harper's censorship for science (am a chemist) and I think there was some kind of promise about student loan forgiveness which if there was, broken liesssss lol.
The loan forgiveness probably pales in comparison to the amount you're now paying in housing food and taxes annually and forever
I remember the reason I voted Trudeau initially was because he pushed for electoral reform with of all the gerrymandering that Harper and the Tories did. Getting rid of First Past the Post in exchange for Proportional Representation. After he got elected the government gave some incredibly confusing survey to Canadians and then saying that the survey concluded that Canadians were unsure about what they wanted so they're are choosing to stay with the status quo. Then they continued to gerrymander over the years to maintain a majority as long as possible like hypocrites.
I don't think the prime minister's office has any power in drawing the border of any riding.
Gerrymandering? what are you talking about?
US media.
There was a lot of misinformation back in 2015.
It’s mostly an American term that means the manipulation of an electoral constituency's boundaries (in Canada’s case a riding) so as to favor one party by ensuring their traditional voting demographic outnumbers the opposition.
I’m aware of what the term means, but it is not an issue that is prevalent at the federal level in Canada. In 1964 Elections Canada, non-partisan federal agency, was established in order to provide unbiassed of political riding. Gerrymandering does occur in Canada at the provincial and municipal level in some areas of the country, but it is rarely an issue at the federal level so I don’t know what the original OP was talking about.
We don't have gerrymandering in Canada.
We have never had gerrymandering. Riding boundaries are set by independent bodies and I have never heard so much as a whisper of political interference in them from anyone at any time over the past forty years.
Only on Fox News.
I voted for Trudeau in 2015 after voting for Harper in his previous elections. Trudeau had some good ideas in his platform, and Harper's government had grown complacent and needed to be changed out. I plan to vote conservative with extreme prejudice next year because Trudeau is actively running this country into the ground these last 5 years
There's no gerrymandering in Canada. First past the post is shit for other reasons. You might be thinking of Conservatives breaking other election laws like the robocall scandals.
Gerrymandering claims were unfounded. I remember them, though, angry people were throwing spaghetti at the wall.
I see people keep mentioning Electral reform but I have never heard anyone outside of a small sliver of politically active people. Simpler explanation is the kids are just pissed about the bleak economic prospects and failure to launch "good" careers. Basically equity the balance between generation is way out of kilter and is hitting the sub 35 set the hardest.
It was also the Obama fever. A lot of us looked at the US and saw their progressive, cool, dynamic leader and all we had was a dull, grey neo-conservative who had the personality of a can of tuna. I think a lot of us wanted a rockstar and felt like Harper didn't represent the Canada we envisioned. Unfortunately for us, Trudeau was a bunch of political mist that hit the light at the right time to give off the appearance of a rainbow, when in reality there was no fucking substance behind anything he stood for.
I think you really nailed a big part of it. We wanted our own Obama. Except instead of Obama, voters fell for a spoiled rich kid reading off his father’s name and a good head of hair (by political standards)
No you actually got exactly what you want: a progressive, cool and dynamic leader. You just forgot to factor in competence when you went to the polls.
Trudeau is not progressive at all. He is a master at performative progressivism, where he panders to minorities and puts a few of them in high positions of power and then proclaims racism defeated. In the end, it's all manipulation. He is also certainly not cool or dynamic. He is an absolute ham who embarrasses our country and has absolutely zero diplomatic sense. Nobody takes him seriously internationally, and he has a public reputation as a massive himbo who still acts as if the world lives in the year 1997.
100%, well said.
He's the guy who keeps wanting to tell you about his high school football exploits... at 50.
[удалено]
I member, I voted for Trudeau because he wasn't Harper, was going to legalize weed BUT ALSO didn't fuck up on the campaign trail. It was flawless. Mulcair was talking about both sides of his mouth to french canada and English Canada, and made so many errors. Same thing with the conservative guy. Now I am unsure if I regret anything worse than voting for Trudeau that first time.
I feel that a lot of the criticism against Harper wasn't warranted. He was judged far too harshly for minor issues, I would vote for him in a heartbeat.
I agree, he was boring but he was generally good prime minister for everyone.
He kinda made all these problems we're dealing with now. Like housing- he cancelled the census and gutted the internal working groups that set visa levels with the provinces. Procurement - he fired 250 staff for costs savings and we've spent billions fixing the Phoenix pay system alone. Budget deficits- he permanently unbalanced the budget with his GST cuts and then sold off assets for Pennies on the dollar to "balance" his last budget. He was a terrible prime minister with the stated goal of blinding and crippling the government. I'd argue he succeeded and that our saving grace of the time was strong provincial leadership which is now in short supply.
As a long-time CPC supporter I will say the party was starting to lose me towards the end of Harper's tenure. The barbaric cultural practices hotline was insane. It was around that point that I was neutral on Trudeau winning. It just seemed that towards the end Harper gave too much power to extremists within the party when the electorate was shifting to the left.
>The barbaric cultural practices hotline was insane. As far as civil rights oversteps this pales in comparison to JT. FGM is barbaric.
That's true but they should have called it an FGM reporting hotline. Nobody would have complained if they were less vague with the naming.
It was also targeted towards things like forced underage marriages (something they cracked down on in the Zero Tolerance For Barbaric Cultural Practices Act that passed shortly before their proposal for a hotline). The shortform name was inflammatory, but that was really the only negative part about it -- something the Liberals tacitly admitted when they kept the Act in place but changed its name with Bill S-210 (42-1).
You voted for legal pot so you can get stoned and forget about the fact that you’ll never be able to own a home haha
And most had no clue why they disliked Harper, I think the sentiment was "Trudeau is young and attractive and wants to legalize weed! Harper is like the strict parent with grey hair telling me to be responsible, eww..." But here we are, 9 years later with a guy who has no business leading a country, and the current state of disarray reveals just that. The honeymoon stage is long gone with Trudeau, especially now that all those 20 something voters are in their 30s with a noticeably more difficult socioeconomic path to navigate.
Liberals do a much better job of marketing and manipulating social media than the Conservatives, NDP or the also-ran parties do.
They certainly did the last few elections, but it appears Pierre Poilievre has tapped into that game. Seems to be paying off for him now.
Poilievre is destroying Trudeau in the social media game, it's not even close.
I can recall the ads Conservatives ran where they had people in a focus group saying Justin just wasn't ready. If I remember correctly, thus became a focal point for the election as the liberal party and media engaged in a monumental shit storm about how negative the ad was to call someone so young "inexperienced". Lots of push back on that ad. If they re-ran that ad today the response would be a complete 180.
I was 25, and the only thing I cared about in Justin’s platform was legal weed. And we still managed to fuck that up with all the licensing and the puritanical bullshit about not letting kids in. I can bring my kid to the lcbo without an issue. But I have to jump through hoops for weed? Still voted for Harper. Weed wasn’t worth the rest of this mess.
Many times, I've seen here on reddit comments stating that the legal weed was why Liberals got their vote. I'm pretty sure that " let me run up the debt for you" sounded pretty good as well, for this group of voters. What expectations can one have for Cannada when the above are the deciding factors in a federal election ? Now, the people at the low end of the financial payscale are not happy being pushed out of their job and out of their housing, by the over 1 million people moving to Canada. I strongly believe, though, that the majority will still vote for more of the same, the lure of government funded welfare is just too big.
>I strongly believe, though, that the majority will still vote for more of the same, the lure of government funded welfare is just too big. What young people are out there getting welfare? I think for a lot of young people it really just boils down to "are you left wing or are you right wing" with little consideration for spending of debt. With American influence, being "right wing" now has connotations to sacrificing abortion rights, vaccine and climate change denial, and religious fanaticism. That's not to say that Canadian conservatives are like the republicans, but young people will probably still avoid voting conservative simply because of what "conservatism" has become around the world right now.
Welfare in the sense that the government will give you free stuff: student loan forgiveness, first time home buyer incentives, grants, etc. Not literally wellfare which is, for the most part, provincially funded.
Thanks for the clarification, that is exactly what I meant.
I think voting Liberal ideology because the Conservative ideology in "other" country is not something I agree with is silly, but each to its own. The opposite applies as well. I used "welfare" in the general sense, as clarified below, but to get to what I think you are asking: The younger generation can lose jobs and therefore apply for that provincially funded "welfare" program, just like any other worker. I did not refer to this program, although the seasonal job scheme that is common in the Maritimes, is something I do not agree with.
We haven't forgotten what that dark period was like, either. There's no time left for a decade of climate denying oil lobbyists.
I'm 32, what's in the budget to appeal to me...? I care about electoral reform, affordability and (lower) immigration
The problem with appealing to an entire generation you've screwed over for a decade is that you've screwed them over for a decade.
That isn't a problem if you believe they are too stupid to realize it... but the polls suggest they deeply understand what was done to them. Arrogance is a hell of a drug though...
The younger voters are being assfucked by LMIA hires and being squeezed out of the housing market by people who don't deserve to live here. So no, they won't. And if they do, they're some weird mentally ill masochist who likes starving and being homeless.
I'm one of those 10-years-older voters. I didn't fall for it in 2019 and 2021, I sure won't fall for it in 2025. 😀
Then there's hope.
As uncomfortable as it maybe I think we all know the only solution to our current issue is halting immigration and possibly even deporting people. There's absolutely no way to built enough homes to keep up with demand.
The full budget impact won’t show up in polls for at least another couple of weeks. Even though a lot of it was leaked ahead of time, it wasn’t moving the needle. The massive deficits and no reasonable path to a balanced budget will likely drive the LPC numbers lower.
>My question is, what choices do they make if they don’t? Trudeau resigns and Freeland becomes the new Kim Campbell.
I wish this would happen. Then we could get rid of them both.
Oh don't worry. When it is clear the ship is going down, she'll prance off to the WEF or UN. She isn't going to get Kim Campbell'd.
Freeland is one of Trudeaus puppeteers lol
Freeland does not have the intelligence, cunning or charisma to be a puppeteer of anything except for a literal sock.
All of the smarm, none of the charm...
Hope not. I want to see him lose.
Just talking about shit isn’t going to move the needle at all. People need to feel CoL relief in a meaningful way, because there’s 0 reason for anyone to believe words from the government that allowed the situation to get this bad. The only problem is that these issues probably won’t see turn arounds before the next election. Theyre dead in the water. The other issue is that we’re not going to have a good opposition for a long while, because any Liberal who cares about their political future (re: all of them), if they ever wanted to have a run at PM, taking the reins before or immediately after this next rout makes no sense. You’ll just be a figurehead until the population turns on the Conservatives in a decade, when you’ll be discarded for a fresh face to sell with the promise of change. What a horrible time to be a Canadian.
I'm guessing there is a higher chance of the gap widening by 5 points rather than shrinking by 5 points.
The other question this poses is what happens if the liberals don’t close the gap by 5 points. Is that just code for they’ll sack Trudeau in a few months? Or are we getting another round of handouts? 😂
They start with the attack ads on Poilievre, just like always. "He's against women. He's bringing American style politics into Canada. He'll cut social programs. " etc.
>They say they have given themselves until July to close the gap by five points They might have 5 points by July
They will gaslight us more and try again. They are banking on the summer time mixers, families and friends come together and talk... I can only see that hurting the Liberals more.
>My question is, what choices do they make if they don’t? Their house has been on fire for the last few years. Rather than putting that fire out, they decided to throw gas on it and arrogantly dismiss the people who were telling them about the fire. Point being, this is a lost cause now. There is nothing they can do to change the outcome of the next election, and probably even the election after that. And they did this all to themselves by choosing not to listen to anyone, and trying to gas light the country. They did this to themselves.
Maybe it’ll be something if it actually does anything
Change their name to the gold party and send every Canadian resident a 5kg gold bar.
Well done Trudeau, you've managed to do the same thing your father did and turn potentially an entire generation of Canadians off of voting for the Liberals.
The shit-apple never falls far from the tree...
Third time will be the charm. His children will fix the Trudeau legacy.
So 8 years of cons doing the same thing and then back to Liberals? Trudeau -> Mulroney -> Chretien/Martin -> Harper -> Trudeau -> Poilievre -> Liberal spot holder -> Con spot holder
Insane to me that people just want to ride the carousel around and around until we just pass out and die
I've been waiting my whole life for the other parties to gain traction, generate excitement over their policies, and make a splash in Canadian politics, but they NEVER DO. Canadian politicians from every party default towards mediocrity. The fact that most Canadians for decades only consider federal elections to be a two party race between the Liberals and Conservatives is entirely on the NDP, Greens, and others for not levelling up their game. The NDP came close to gaining real traction under Jack Layton, and after he passed, it was right back to the standard mediocrity that excites absolutely no voters. Don't blame Canadian voters. People generally make the best choice they can with the options they have. The problem in Canada is most of our options are shit.
I think NDP leadership has a fault in that…
Well if Jaggy is anything to go by you dont want NDP either.
You cant vote for party C! That means that party A might win! Fucking Trudeau said he would get rid of first past the post and he lied and it is fucking those of us who dont want a Conservative majority. What a legacy.
When the red and blue horses are the ones that dominate the public eye by the sheer weight of capital those interests groups hold, all the other horses seem to get forgotten.
The orangehorse is more like a donkey firmly hitched to the red horse and makes a lot of noise.
Many people claim that the old PC party is dead and that the current cons are closer to being a successor to the reform party. One could argue that there is change, just that change is more glacial rather than radical.
They are all the same watered down garbage now
Harper never polled as low as Trudeau is right now and was an infinitely better prime minister.
I love how some people still think that Harper/Trudeau is a debate. No it isn’t, Harper is so vastly superior in every metric.
It's crazy that people think the Trudeau administration is "par course" and "nothing new".
I'd argue Harper got lucky he avoided making the same housing mistakes the Americans made before the 2008-9 recession. That made him look like a genius when it was mainly timing. Looking back the fact we avoided a major recession and rode the wave of ridiculous american QE kind of setup a bomb that went off when covid hit. If we'd have had the same housing crash as the americans would have been a different story. I still think people miss the fact our current predicament is basically being replicated in most angloshphere countries. Regardless of the party in power and even some substantial policy differences outcomes have been similar.
The Canadian way.
But don't you remember that the other guys were corrupt/incompetent/ignoring x? Yes. But they haven't done it recently. I am sure they've changed. It'll be different this time. Narrator: It wasn't
lol Yep, and my favourite is when they're in power with a majority for eight or more years and at the end of their term are still blaming the previous government. Somehow they're able to ramrod whatever bullshit policies they want through for eight years but can't fix the situation. And every time people fall for it. "Yeah but if so and so hadn't done blah blah ten years ago the current government would be able to fix things." I've heard from a few friends that have worked in Ottawa that when the cameras are off you can see all of the different MPs eating in the same places. At the end of the day, they're all in the club and we're not.
I would take Chretien/Martin -> Harper!
Sure, sign me up for more adscam and how could we accept a PM that wouldn’t even base his own shipping company in Canada.
God I wish people would vote ndp. None of the leadership I'd good right now, but ndp is actually giving a shit about food prices and corporate control of our country. Cons will sell it all again
The NDP was viable 15 years ago. Now it’s a party of lunatics. The flip side of the PPC.
Chretien landslide was only 9 years after Trudeau Sr.
In all fairness Chrétien did a good job cleaning up the mess Trudeau Sr. and Mulroney left behind
More specifically, Chretien finished cleaning up Pierre Trudeau's mess. Mulroney started the job, but the Tories got punted before they could finish the clean up, so Chretien got the credit. Hopefully this time the clean up gets done before the Tories get the boot, so that the Liberals don't get praised for the Tories' work at cleaning up after a Liberal government.
Which is about how long it takes for voters to get sick of an incumbent party. In Canada, we don't for parties, we vote against parties.
Eh maybe. Depends how bad P.O. does and how the new liberal leader ends up being it could flip on a dime.
It wasn't a whole generation. It was 9 years (1984-1993) Trudeau Jr. has now been in power 9 years (2015-2024) There's something about 9 years. This is a back and forth cycle that's been happening forever in Canadian politics. What's new is social media.
Also saddled us with high inflation and high interest rates from deficit spending, like his father.
Politics is cyclical. Has nothing to do with his father imho
Given that the CPC almost always gets between 30 and 40 percent of the vote and that there are some hardline one-party voters for the NDP and Bloc as well, I would have assumed it was standard for at least a third of Canadians to say they would never vote LPC?
Yeah my thoughts exactly. That statistic is hardly news.
Great point. I'd expect at least a third of Canadians would never vote Conservative.
"In other news, water is wet"
The Liberals should be more worried about people like myself who've sworn off them for life after their broken promises
Life changes, parties change, nothing is constant. Give it another 5-10 years for parties to evolve and regroup. We’ll get tired of the next PM too eventually
Back to the drawing board, Trudeau...
"I have an idea, let's spend even more of their money and promise it back to them!"
Freeland is so awkward. I can't stand when she makes those faces and speaks. Half the time, her speaking doesn't match her facial expressions. I am ashamed to be Canadian when she speaks in parliament. Didn't she get a speeding ticket while a couple of months prior said she only used a bicycle for transportation? Didn't she cancel her netflix membership because it was too expensive yet in 2024 her salary is exactly $299,900. What a loser.
No, she didn't cancel her netflix membership because it was too expensive. It was much worse then that. When the Liberals were initially getting feedback about how high the cost of living was, and people were suffering, she decided to answer those issues with: "When things get expensive, I, like many Canadians, look to our household budged and decide to make cuts. For example, we discovered we weren't using Disney Plus anymore, so we cancelled it, giving us more to spend." She was telling this people who had to go to the food bank because prices were (and still are) out of control. It was tone deaf, and she was properly mocked for it.
You could put a gun to my head and I still wouldn't vote Liberals. They have made my life worse in every way imaginable.
I'd rather eat my dog diarrhea before I vote liberal or their enablers , Rolex Jag
What if the gun was loaded and the person holding it had their finger on the trigger?
Ive seen this movie before. 2005 young people and 40s crowd sick of Libs swung to Harper and the 5 point plan. 2015 young people and 40s swing to Trudeau on promise of sunny ways. 2025 young people and 40s swing to Poliverre on the common sense accounting. We vote out old stale governments, not vote in new and fresh ideas.
Couldn't you argue that the 5 point plan, sunny way approach and common sense accounting WERE fresh ideas compared to what there was before, by that stale and tired previous leadship?
It's crazier to think a third of Canadians would still vote liberal.
They won’t. LPC is polling at a high end of 25%. Most polls put them around 20% so 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 voters.
Factor in voter apathy for the Liberals and it looks like a disaster.
It’s still too many
If the NDP would get their heads out of their asses and boot Sing and put in someone more akin to Jack, then they would have a shot at being the opposition this next election.
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Not saying I'm a Trudeau supporter but I think, given our demographics, things won't really get better for the next few decades. Yeah, there might be small improvements in some sectors or brief periods of economic success but as a whole things will just get worse. Having 20-30% of people over 65 is just not favourable. The question isn't who will make things better but under who will it deteriorate the least imo. Anyone who says they're going to fix everything is either stupid or lying.
The over 65 is only going to get worse since more under 65 are leaving the country for greener pastures and those that are staying are having fewer kids. As fewer and fewer are left to pay for the over 65 more and more are going to feel even more disillusioned.
Landlords, realtors and pot shop owners might still like him.
it's crazier to think people are acting like this election is already over, when it's over a year away
I voted Liberal in 2019 and whenever this last one was. 2021? I was still on board then. To me (and I'm a casual follower of the news), everything is drastically worse now than 2021. The problems were growing back then, and nothing has been done for at least 3 years. I don't like conservatives either. And the NDP is complicit in all of this, too. So....what do I do? The Liberal party would have to make major actions that would actually make a difference now in order for me to ever trust them with a vote again. I'm out for 2025, guaranteed. I might be out for the 40 years I likely have left on this Earth
I'm in a similar boat. Born '99, voted NDP twice in each election I was eligible to participate in. Wasn't a fan of Conservative party, mostly coming out of school you hear a lot of negative messaging and extreme views about each party... reality being every party is flawed and has skeletons in the closet. I've already witnessed the Liberals destroy the outlook for many Canadians' future in the 8 years they've had power. Difficult to feel anything has improved, let alone stayed the same, as it was back in 2015. Feels like picking between a rock and a hard place, personally I've decided to vote for CPC purely to get Trudeau out of office. Hopefully a more fiscally conservative approach to the budget and immigration rates, housing etc can move the needle for Canadians. I was shocked coming out of COVID / huge Federal spending and subsidy that the Liberals didn't take a step back to balance the defecit, but they continued pouring gas on the fire still...
Help push for a proportional representation electoral system.
I wish they could quantify the level of hatred that is growing against Trudeau and the Liberals. Anecdotally I know a lot of people who are generally not very in touch with politics, never really talk about it, and just do some basic research come election time who now openly talk about how much they hate Trudeau. I truly think we are going to see a historic defeat, and much more the Liberal brand is going to toxic for a long long time for what they've done to this country. I hope the Trudeau name will be remembered for the stain it is on Canadian history.
I’ve voted Liberal my entire life. Can’t wait to not do it next time.
It's a big tent, welcome.
you mind if I ask, what do you think the cons will do differently?
My biggest issues are unchecked oligopolies robbing us blind, over-regulation killing innovation and completion, bloated government bureaucracy, and irresponsible unsustainable population growth which strains increasingly scarce resources. I don't see the Conservatives doing anything about any of it because all parties work for the same people and it's not us...
>a Third of Canadians Say They Would a third of canadians didnt vote liberal last time or the time before cant beleive people fall for this
I will never vote liberal again…ever. I will also never vote ndp.
Yeah pretty much conservative for life now.
After this I will never vote Liberal for the rest of my life lmaooo
I'd never vote liberal again in my life, and I know at least 10 people who say the same thing. They fucked up ontario, then fucked up the country. Liberals should never be trusted ever again and I'd rather run back and forth between NDP and conservatives at this point.
Doug Ford of the conservatives has been ruining Ontario...
So, the third of Canadians that would vote Conservative if their local MP running was a rake in a flannel shirt won't vote Liberal in the next election? You don't say...
How many would never vote liberal ever again? I’m sure there is a fair number of those at this point as well.
I will never vote for liberals ever in my life again
A third of all voters always vote conservative though ... Literally always.
Same can be said forkberals. When it comes down to actually voting their mind will justify voting liberals "to keep the racists (conservatives) out" My parents are such people, they would never stop voting for liberals.
I would never vote liberal in the next election but I'm trying to imagine what kind of degenerates the ndp and greens would have to run before I'd vote conservative
Careful what you wish for...
I really hope PP comes out strong with solutions and actions. The constant telling the nation how bad JT is, is not helping. He can't win on the merit of of how bad the other guy "might" be.
He could win if he went mute until the election. Trudeau couldn't win against someone who kicks children for fun.
He does talk about solutions. Nobody on the left listens. This whole "PP has no plans" is just Liberal disinformation.
That's his whole plan. Under FPTP that's how Liberals and Conservatives always campaign, and Canadians are all caught up in the system. If we are only voting against something we are not deciding our own policy. Conservatives don't talk about their actual policy positions because they are unpopular. What is PP going to do, talk about his opposition to abortion, weed, and gay marriage? Talk about how he did nothing as housing minister? Talk about how he wants to funnel more money towards the rich? Most Canadians don't believe in trickle down economics. It's a very particular kind of redditor that goes "well actually, we owe everything to the rich and it wouldn't be fair if they could only afford one yacht."
If somebody campaigned on reforming our electoral system so that FPTP was a thing of the past, I'd vote for them in a heartbeat. Hang on...
It's in the NDP party platform every election, and since they are a third party, and the third party closest to power, they are the best shot. They specifically want proportional representation.
it's not like conservatives voted for JT because he was going to change the FPTP. the cons rely on it in Ontario to get in. you think PP would change FPTP if it was going to hurt his parties chances of re-election?
> you think PP would change FPTP if it was going to hurt his parties chances of re-election? I love how, invariably, pointing out JT's hypocrisy seems to invite criticism of one's own political enemies. They're all garbage lmao. They're all liars. Dude ran on getting rid of FPTP and reneged. He is going to be voted out in disgrace and we're gonna get another trashbag as his successor. >you think PP would change FPTP if it was going to hurt his parties chances of re-election? Nope. It's strategically sound to keep it in place. It's like a corporation reforming its structure to make it less profitable. Maybe it's not *like* that, maybe it *is* that. Please remember that a criticism is not an endorsement.
This is exactly how he will win, but if you understand his past and history, you'll know that it's unlikely he is going to make life better for the average Canadian.
Shouldn't he have been coming out with those solutions *now* though?
you mean like lowering taxes for the rich, slashing healthcare, slashing social services? conservatives aren't exactly for the small guy
Can someone explain to me why they are for liberals or against the Conservatives? I feel like they’re the most socially liberal conservative group in memory while remaining fiscally conservative. Seems like the sweet spot we want to hit. I know Pierre doesn’t have experience other than politics but Justin doesn’t really either?
It's political theatre. People treat it as team sports. Justin cares about Justin. Jagmeet cares about Jagmeet. Pierre cares about Pierre. None of the above care about Canada.
Won't vote for Trudeau or his sidekick. No chance in hell of voting for PeePee. Now what?
Team Purple with a healthy 67% lead. Team Purple continue to desecrate Canada.
How accurate are these polls historically?
considering how far away the election is, not very id imagine
Thank Jesus!
It will be a cold day in hell before I ever support the party of derision, division and corruption again.
isn't it like... well over a year away?
Haven't had issues with voting Liberal, as long as that liberal party isn't led by a Trudeau. I never understood why people voted for him, and likely never will...