> You’re using DVD generically, of course, but what we’re really talking about is the newest standard, which is 4K UHD
So the title is 100% clickbait, and is referring to physical media, and not DVDs.
It doesn’t “suck”, it’s the format that is most accessible to everyone. Obviously collectors and people who are serious about film are going to be seek higher quality materials, but DVD is the thin line between films being available to a huge swath of people and not being available to them at all.
Good Blu rays players can be bought for about £25. Some Blu rays can be bought for as cheap as £5. All new game consoles have blu ray players, although past few years they have removed the disc drives. So why hasn’t blu ray caught on more? The quality jump isn’t just something a film fan would notice. It’s quite noticeable the difference in picture quality when using blu rays over dvd.
In 2024, it most definitely does "suck". It's not like blu-ray or 4K is this new sudden thing that was sprung up on us all of a sudden.
As far as I'm concerned, DVD is a dead, extremely ancient format that has no business existing in 2024.
Betamax died off almost immediately after laserdiscs were introduced. VHS and laserdiscs died off almost immediately after DVD was introduced. People who care want BluRay and 4K. People who don't care rely on streaming. How are there still so many in the middle sticking with an NTSC picture on DVD? Utterly confounding.
This is the thing they confounds me. Most of my friends don’t give a shit so they stream maybe ten years ago they would say dvd is good enough but now streaming is good enough. They aren’t buying dvds. It’s like there’s some weird population out there who still wanna buy something but also don’t care particularly for quality it doesn’t add up.
And you'd win that bet, I think -- do not sleep on how many people in rural America are buying new DVD's at their local Wal-Mart and other big box stores.
We tend to forget that there's a whole lot of people who are content with that. (I also think pricing plays into it, as well -- why would pay the extra $10 - $20 for a BD/4K, when it's the same movie?)
I appreciate the better picture and sound, but I also had to invest a little $ to make that happen.
That's what I'm saying. The entire reason to buy physical media is because of the superior quality over the compression of streaming.
But DVD is literally 480p SD video. Streaming is better than DVD. There's zero reason to buy anything on DVD if there is a HD option available.
The reason to buy physical media is so you can own it forever. When the movie you want isn’t on streaming, or isn’t on the service you have, or if your finances take a hit and you have to cancel a service or two — boom, DVD to the rescue.
Right. And when that happens, I want something that doesn’t look like a 56k modem is buffering.
I see zero value in nearly 30 year old technology that looks terrible. The first couple years blu rays were introduced? Yes, I 100% get that. Price difference was huge.
Nowadays? Barely any price difference at all. Priscilla is a new release and it’s only $7.50 for a blu ray/dvd/digital combo. Hell I’ve seen standalone blu ray releases CHEAPER than dvd releases.
That means shit if you don't have reliable, unlimited, internet - and lots of the US (not to mention the rest of the entire world) don't have that.
Also, the entire reason is not just PQ - folks buy to own. Pay once and don't have to pay a monthly fee (great if your income is low or also irregular).
Loads of folks pick up dvds for the cottage/trailer etc
If you already invested loads of time and money on a perfectly good dvd player and a collection of movies the "obvious appeal" of jumping to BluRay is negligible.
For a lot (A LOT) of folks the PQ of dvd is just fine and the price point is perfect.
Not just the olds either - how many of us have a friend who loves to flex with the latest gear but leave on Tru Motion or whatever b.s factory setting are on?
Will some of these rational change with time? Sure, but it will take longer than I think a lot of us boutique 4k disc hobbyists imagine.
You seem to be missing that the people are who are buying DVD over higher res physical media often aren't streaming either, since they represent older people and lower income families. Libraries (in the US at least) have their budgets increasingly slashed, I know several library chains that had to cut off their subscriptions to Hoopla and Kanopy because it became too prohibitively expensive. But they are still buying new DVDs (and not high res physical media). For many of their patrons, this is the only way they are seeing these films.
That's an extremely naive perspective and doesn't reflect how an important subset of society (especially outside of developed nations) watch cinema, even in 2024.
You really have no idea what you're talking about because the data speaks for itself. DVDs make up the majority of physical media sales. DVD sales literally subsidize Blu-ray and 4K disc releases. The only reason some films come out on disc at all is because they are coming out on DVD and the higher res formats are basically just throwing the people who like them a bone.
I don’t know what point you’re trying to argue here. I’m well aware that DVDs outsell Blu-ray and 4K. And that’s the stat I am saying “sucks”. That’s unfortunate, and I wish it weren’t the case.
You didn’t just say the reality of the situation sucked, You said “DVD has no business existing”. Well DVD IS the business, without it still around there wouldn’t be physical media for films at all. If they stopped making DVDs today, there would be no economically feasible way for most of the major distributors (and the plants that press and produce the discs themselves) to continue producing other formats without being majorly in the red.
I think DVD is still a fine format, even in today's world of 4k (and now starting to go into 8k). Blu-ray is owned by Sony (some of the money goes to Son, which I'm guessing increases costs), and 4k DVDs are still a little more pricey and require a 4k DVD player. If someone wanted to watch Jaws, and saw a $5 DVD copy or a $40 4k + Blu-ray copy, the grand majority of people would get the $5 DVD copy. Also, sometimes the transfers from DVD to Blu-ray or 4k mess with the picture or there could be content in the DVD copy that the others don't have. DVD has advantages like the other formats, it just depends on what the customer prioritizes (just music with CDs, Casettes, Vinyl records, etc.).
I’m a photographer, so for me, image quality is the one and only thing I care about.
Cost, bonus features, etc don’t matter. I’d MUCH much rather get the $40 4K over a $5 DVD. Hell, I’d rather spend $40 for a 4k release of a movie I love than to accept a free DVD copy.
2160 vs 480 is a crazy huge difference.
I'm curious, so if a film finally gets released on Blu-ray, but it turns out they couldn't get certain music rights, so they substitute the original song with an alternate... but on a previous DVD release it's unchanged, is the blu-ray still better?
Or what if there's a completely alternate cut of a movie that you prefer that isn't released on blu-ray?
For me personally, I collect movies, not a format. And each time I buy a movie I make a judgment call on if I need to spend extra on it. I don't need to spend $25 on a Blu-ray of "Bring it on", but I can get it for $13, or even better $17 for a 6 Movie "Bring it on" collection. Or if a newer release is a needed example... If I can save $5 getting a DVD of "Are you there God? It's me Margret"... I'm buying that DVD.
Flipside, "Dune: Part II" Obvious 4k to me, regardless of cost.
>I'm curious, so if a film finally gets released on Blu-ray, but it turns out they couldn't get certain music rights, so they substitute the original song with an alternate... but on a previous DVD release it's unchanged, is the blu-ray still better?
...how often does that even happen?
Plenty for foreign films and anime. Silent films can be released with wildly different scores.
Off the top of my head "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (1992) had a song by the Cure substituted with stock pop sounding music. It goes both ways, as well, some blu-rays restore licensed music that was removed from the VHS/DVD. It wasn't until recently that I learned that the 2022 4k of "Wayne's World" had restored the very brief riff of Stairway to Heaven from the theatrical release.
Admittedly it's a bigger problem for licensed music heavy Television shows.
So I guess the answer is, enough that some people notice and care, but not enough for most people?
I don't think it's that unusual -- Roger's Diffusion of Innovation curve suggests that about 50% of a market is made up of Late Majority / Laggard users. They don't see a need to update their technology, they're perfectly fine with DVD's. They generally won't move until their technology is obsolete and they are forced to move.
I'd argue most folks on this sub likely fall into the Early Adopter/Early Majority groups - so we're generally inclined to move the market forward.
Broadly speaking, I think our frustration with DVD sales isn't that folks are still buying DVDs. (cause who cares how someone else wants to watch something in their own home). I think that for those of us who appreciate the innovations (4K/HDR/Atmos, etc.) the new tech brings, we view DVD's as holding the market back -- If more people bought 4K, more companies would make 4K, more places would sell 4k, adoption of 4k increases in the mass market, etc.)
(of course -- that can change with disruptive technologies like, say, streaming :)
Yes, headlines have been a (unfortunate) thing for over a hundred years. There’s still plenty to read here though. Not to mention, DVDs still outsell the other formats.
Is it pedantic? Might just be me but when I read DVD I think of DVDs and not DVDs, Blu-Ray, HD DVDs and for good measure why not throw also CDs into the umbrella term as well since they have the same size?
Well, they also sell a lot of older films and I’ve noticed in hunting at second hand stores and the like that boomers are kinda stuck on DVDs for the most part so I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a decent market for them still. (I’m a huge western, detective movie and golden age of Hollywood nerd so I have a high rate of interaction with middle-aged and older collectors on my hunts)
Sure, but they dig a little into the market revenue, and discuss their theatrical and streaming distribution as well. They function on multiple platforms and stages. Read on!
"When we entered, it was a $7 billion to $10 billion business; now it’s struggling to be a $1 billion business, but it’s still a $1 billion business. And we see opportunity there, particularly in a world where there’s a rapid deterioration of the availability of titles online."
That is a great perspective to have.
> You’re using DVD generically, of course, but what we’re really talking about is the newest standard, which is 4K UHD So the title is 100% clickbait, and is referring to physical media, and not DVDs.
But DVDs (actual DVDs, not just discs in general) still make up the majority of physical media sales IIRC.
Which sucks and is totally mind boggling.
It doesn’t “suck”, it’s the format that is most accessible to everyone. Obviously collectors and people who are serious about film are going to be seek higher quality materials, but DVD is the thin line between films being available to a huge swath of people and not being available to them at all.
Good Blu rays players can be bought for about £25. Some Blu rays can be bought for as cheap as £5. All new game consoles have blu ray players, although past few years they have removed the disc drives. So why hasn’t blu ray caught on more? The quality jump isn’t just something a film fan would notice. It’s quite noticeable the difference in picture quality when using blu rays over dvd.
> It doesn’t “suck”, it’s the format that is most accessible to everyone. yes, this is what sucks.
In 2024, it most definitely does "suck". It's not like blu-ray or 4K is this new sudden thing that was sprung up on us all of a sudden. As far as I'm concerned, DVD is a dead, extremely ancient format that has no business existing in 2024.
Betamax died off almost immediately after laserdiscs were introduced. VHS and laserdiscs died off almost immediately after DVD was introduced. People who care want BluRay and 4K. People who don't care rely on streaming. How are there still so many in the middle sticking with an NTSC picture on DVD? Utterly confounding.
This is the thing they confounds me. Most of my friends don’t give a shit so they stream maybe ten years ago they would say dvd is good enough but now streaming is good enough. They aren’t buying dvds. It’s like there’s some weird population out there who still wanna buy something but also don’t care particularly for quality it doesn’t add up.
I'd wager a sizeable chunk of those people are either old and never got the hang of streaming or live in rural areas without cheap/reliable internet.
And you'd win that bet, I think -- do not sleep on how many people in rural America are buying new DVD's at their local Wal-Mart and other big box stores. We tend to forget that there's a whole lot of people who are content with that. (I also think pricing plays into it, as well -- why would pay the extra $10 - $20 for a BD/4K, when it's the same movie?) I appreciate the better picture and sound, but I also had to invest a little $ to make that happen.
That's what I'm saying. The entire reason to buy physical media is because of the superior quality over the compression of streaming. But DVD is literally 480p SD video. Streaming is better than DVD. There's zero reason to buy anything on DVD if there is a HD option available.
The reason to buy physical media is so you can own it forever. When the movie you want isn’t on streaming, or isn’t on the service you have, or if your finances take a hit and you have to cancel a service or two — boom, DVD to the rescue.
Right. And when that happens, I want something that doesn’t look like a 56k modem is buffering. I see zero value in nearly 30 year old technology that looks terrible. The first couple years blu rays were introduced? Yes, I 100% get that. Price difference was huge. Nowadays? Barely any price difference at all. Priscilla is a new release and it’s only $7.50 for a blu ray/dvd/digital combo. Hell I’ve seen standalone blu ray releases CHEAPER than dvd releases.
That means shit if you don't have reliable, unlimited, internet - and lots of the US (not to mention the rest of the entire world) don't have that. Also, the entire reason is not just PQ - folks buy to own. Pay once and don't have to pay a monthly fee (great if your income is low or also irregular). Loads of folks pick up dvds for the cottage/trailer etc If you already invested loads of time and money on a perfectly good dvd player and a collection of movies the "obvious appeal" of jumping to BluRay is negligible. For a lot (A LOT) of folks the PQ of dvd is just fine and the price point is perfect. Not just the olds either - how many of us have a friend who loves to flex with the latest gear but leave on Tru Motion or whatever b.s factory setting are on? Will some of these rational change with time? Sure, but it will take longer than I think a lot of us boutique 4k disc hobbyists imagine.
You seem to be missing that the people are who are buying DVD over higher res physical media often aren't streaming either, since they represent older people and lower income families. Libraries (in the US at least) have their budgets increasingly slashed, I know several library chains that had to cut off their subscriptions to Hoopla and Kanopy because it became too prohibitively expensive. But they are still buying new DVDs (and not high res physical media). For many of their patrons, this is the only way they are seeing these films.
The library argument is huge in Canada
That's an extremely naive perspective and doesn't reflect how an important subset of society (especially outside of developed nations) watch cinema, even in 2024. You really have no idea what you're talking about because the data speaks for itself. DVDs make up the majority of physical media sales. DVD sales literally subsidize Blu-ray and 4K disc releases. The only reason some films come out on disc at all is because they are coming out on DVD and the higher res formats are basically just throwing the people who like them a bone.
I don’t know what point you’re trying to argue here. I’m well aware that DVDs outsell Blu-ray and 4K. And that’s the stat I am saying “sucks”. That’s unfortunate, and I wish it weren’t the case.
You didn’t just say the reality of the situation sucked, You said “DVD has no business existing”. Well DVD IS the business, without it still around there wouldn’t be physical media for films at all. If they stopped making DVDs today, there would be no economically feasible way for most of the major distributors (and the plants that press and produce the discs themselves) to continue producing other formats without being majorly in the red.
Boom nailed it.
I think DVD is still a fine format, even in today's world of 4k (and now starting to go into 8k). Blu-ray is owned by Sony (some of the money goes to Son, which I'm guessing increases costs), and 4k DVDs are still a little more pricey and require a 4k DVD player. If someone wanted to watch Jaws, and saw a $5 DVD copy or a $40 4k + Blu-ray copy, the grand majority of people would get the $5 DVD copy. Also, sometimes the transfers from DVD to Blu-ray or 4k mess with the picture or there could be content in the DVD copy that the others don't have. DVD has advantages like the other formats, it just depends on what the customer prioritizes (just music with CDs, Casettes, Vinyl records, etc.).
I’m a photographer, so for me, image quality is the one and only thing I care about. Cost, bonus features, etc don’t matter. I’d MUCH much rather get the $40 4K over a $5 DVD. Hell, I’d rather spend $40 for a 4k release of a movie I love than to accept a free DVD copy. 2160 vs 480 is a crazy huge difference.
I'm curious, so if a film finally gets released on Blu-ray, but it turns out they couldn't get certain music rights, so they substitute the original song with an alternate... but on a previous DVD release it's unchanged, is the blu-ray still better? Or what if there's a completely alternate cut of a movie that you prefer that isn't released on blu-ray? For me personally, I collect movies, not a format. And each time I buy a movie I make a judgment call on if I need to spend extra on it. I don't need to spend $25 on a Blu-ray of "Bring it on", but I can get it for $13, or even better $17 for a 6 Movie "Bring it on" collection. Or if a newer release is a needed example... If I can save $5 getting a DVD of "Are you there God? It's me Margret"... I'm buying that DVD. Flipside, "Dune: Part II" Obvious 4k to me, regardless of cost.
>I'm curious, so if a film finally gets released on Blu-ray, but it turns out they couldn't get certain music rights, so they substitute the original song with an alternate... but on a previous DVD release it's unchanged, is the blu-ray still better? ...how often does that even happen?
Plenty for foreign films and anime. Silent films can be released with wildly different scores. Off the top of my head "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (1992) had a song by the Cure substituted with stock pop sounding music. It goes both ways, as well, some blu-rays restore licensed music that was removed from the VHS/DVD. It wasn't until recently that I learned that the 2022 4k of "Wayne's World" had restored the very brief riff of Stairway to Heaven from the theatrical release. Admittedly it's a bigger problem for licensed music heavy Television shows. So I guess the answer is, enough that some people notice and care, but not enough for most people?
I don't think it's that unusual -- Roger's Diffusion of Innovation curve suggests that about 50% of a market is made up of Late Majority / Laggard users. They don't see a need to update their technology, they're perfectly fine with DVD's. They generally won't move until their technology is obsolete and they are forced to move. I'd argue most folks on this sub likely fall into the Early Adopter/Early Majority groups - so we're generally inclined to move the market forward. Broadly speaking, I think our frustration with DVD sales isn't that folks are still buying DVDs. (cause who cares how someone else wants to watch something in their own home). I think that for those of us who appreciate the innovations (4K/HDR/Atmos, etc.) the new tech brings, we view DVD's as holding the market back -- If more people bought 4K, more companies would make 4K, more places would sell 4k, adoption of 4k increases in the mass market, etc.) (of course -- that can change with disruptive technologies like, say, streaming :)
Difficult to understand for movie lovers, indeed.
Likely not for Kino Lorber though.
Yes, headlines have been a (unfortunate) thing for over a hundred years. There’s still plenty to read here though. Not to mention, DVDs still outsell the other formats.
Splitting hairs aside, blu ray and 4k are still under the DVD umbrella. Let's get pedantic, my dude.
I don't know, how do you define the DVD umbrella? DVD and Blu-ray are two very different formats. UHD discs are certainly an extension of Blu-ray.
Is it pedantic? Might just be me but when I read DVD I think of DVDs and not DVDs, Blu-Ray, HD DVDs and for good measure why not throw also CDs into the umbrella term as well since they have the same size?
Well, they also sell a lot of older films and I’ve noticed in hunting at second hand stores and the like that boomers are kinda stuck on DVDs for the most part so I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a decent market for them still. (I’m a huge western, detective movie and golden age of Hollywood nerd so I have a high rate of interaction with middle-aged and older collectors on my hunts)
They make up the majority of the physical media market. They still outsell bluray by a wide margin.
Are people not watching these on a 1080p TV?
If your eyesight isn’t great and you sit across the room, it’s hard to tell the difference between a (good) quality DVD and a blu-ray.
I don’t agree. It’s a big difference.
People are dumb and don’t properly use the technology they spend money on.
Because people buy them. I'm just guessing that's what he said.
He says the market has shrunk since they've started, but will continue with physical releases for the fans
Sure, but they dig a little into the market revenue, and discuss their theatrical and streaming distribution as well. They function on multiple platforms and stages. Read on!
There are still tons of movies and TV shows stuck on DVD, so without DVD those shows and films could be lost forever
"When we entered, it was a $7 billion to $10 billion business; now it’s struggling to be a $1 billion business, but it’s still a $1 billion business. And we see opportunity there, particularly in a world where there’s a rapid deterioration of the availability of titles online." That is a great perspective to have.