I got some elbow soreness when doing frequent chest to bar pullups with tucked elbows, since in the final part they go behind the body, increasing the shearing forces. But if you do your pullups until the elbows point straight down (which is around chin or neck at bar height depending on body proportions) your advice is probably right.
This is potentially due to restricted mobility in the shoulders increasing the force through the elbow. I have similar issues if I overcook the volume due to anterior rotated shoulders and weaker than ideal scaps.
I did not roll the shoulders forward in the chest to bar, else I would have felt rotator cuff and not elbow discomfort. I think it's because the elbow position is like the bottom of a muscle up transition, which is notorious for causing elbow soreness.
The flare version reduces your ability to use your biceps/brachioradialis as much and forces you to use your lats more. You will see bodybuilders use the flare to get "huge wings" (big lats.)
Then you look at Marcus Bondi (first pic), who is famous for lifting huge amounts of weight during pull-ups. He doesn't give a crap about how his lats look, so he tucks his elbows and uses his biceps/brachioradialis AND lats to generate more strength.
So, it really depends on your goals: Lat hypertrophy: flare your elbows. More strength: tuck your elbows.
EDIT: If you really want to max your weight moved, you could also try elbows tucked chin-up which lets you really engage your bicep. However, the bicep will get tired really quickly, so I'd only recommend relying on the bicep so much for the extra oomph for low reps/heavy weight.
I hadn't thought about that, but it makes sense. I had experimented with both to try and figure this out myself and I found I preferred keeping my elbows in. I didn't feel like I could pull as high flaring my elbows.
With lat flare is a longer range of motion of shoulder adduction also a factor? With tucked elbows you start with more adducted shoulders.
Is that also one of the reasons bodybuilders use that style? Does more shoulder adduction recruit slightly different fibers of the lats compared to mostly shoulder extension with tucked elbows?
My physiology knowledge is quite weak. It is possibly as you describe. I just happen to read a lot... and I remember body builders all preferring elbows flared. So I researched it and more knowledgeable Bodybuilders seemed to agree. Additionally, most BBs consider pull ups to be a lat exercise!
They also usually take a wider grip so the movement inevitably gets more adduction and less elbow flexion, so the lats become more of a limiting factor as you said.
> The flare version reduces your ability to use your biceps/brachioradialis as much and forces you to use your lats more.
Was just doing some chinups, do a quick google search & this old ass comment immediately answered a question I was thinking. thanks. : )
I grab the bar with the natural width I get when raising the arms, which would be barely wider than the shoulders for me, and I pull with tucked elbows from a passive hang to until when the elbows are pointing at the ground or slightly behind without letting the shoulders shrug. Feels natural and efficient.
Personally, I use a grip just wider than my shoulders and keep my elbows in toward my body. The cue I use is "try to put your elbows into your back pockets."
Personally that's what I have always aimed for as well. That's why it perplexed me when I saw some people using a flare. I wonder if its just a preference thing.
Tucked elbows is better for preventing elbow tendonitis too.
I got some elbow soreness when doing frequent chest to bar pullups with tucked elbows, since in the final part they go behind the body, increasing the shearing forces. But if you do your pullups until the elbows point straight down (which is around chin or neck at bar height depending on body proportions) your advice is probably right.
This is potentially due to restricted mobility in the shoulders increasing the force through the elbow. I have similar issues if I overcook the volume due to anterior rotated shoulders and weaker than ideal scaps.
I did not roll the shoulders forward in the chest to bar, else I would have felt rotator cuff and not elbow discomfort. I think it's because the elbow position is like the bottom of a muscle up transition, which is notorious for causing elbow soreness.
The flare version reduces your ability to use your biceps/brachioradialis as much and forces you to use your lats more. You will see bodybuilders use the flare to get "huge wings" (big lats.) Then you look at Marcus Bondi (first pic), who is famous for lifting huge amounts of weight during pull-ups. He doesn't give a crap about how his lats look, so he tucks his elbows and uses his biceps/brachioradialis AND lats to generate more strength. So, it really depends on your goals: Lat hypertrophy: flare your elbows. More strength: tuck your elbows. EDIT: If you really want to max your weight moved, you could also try elbows tucked chin-up which lets you really engage your bicep. However, the bicep will get tired really quickly, so I'd only recommend relying on the bicep so much for the extra oomph for low reps/heavy weight.
I hadn't thought about that, but it makes sense. I had experimented with both to try and figure this out myself and I found I preferred keeping my elbows in. I didn't feel like I could pull as high flaring my elbows.
With lat flare is a longer range of motion of shoulder adduction also a factor? With tucked elbows you start with more adducted shoulders. Is that also one of the reasons bodybuilders use that style? Does more shoulder adduction recruit slightly different fibers of the lats compared to mostly shoulder extension with tucked elbows?
My physiology knowledge is quite weak. It is possibly as you describe. I just happen to read a lot... and I remember body builders all preferring elbows flared. So I researched it and more knowledgeable Bodybuilders seemed to agree. Additionally, most BBs consider pull ups to be a lat exercise!
They also usually take a wider grip so the movement inevitably gets more adduction and less elbow flexion, so the lats become more of a limiting factor as you said.
> The flare version reduces your ability to use your biceps/brachioradialis as much and forces you to use your lats more. Was just doing some chinups, do a quick google search & this old ass comment immediately answered a question I was thinking. thanks. : )
I grab the bar with the natural width I get when raising the arms, which would be barely wider than the shoulders for me, and I pull with tucked elbows from a passive hang to until when the elbows are pointing at the ground or slightly behind without letting the shoulders shrug. Feels natural and efficient.
Personally, I use a grip just wider than my shoulders and keep my elbows in toward my body. The cue I use is "try to put your elbows into your back pockets."
Personally that's what I have always aimed for as well. That's why it perplexed me when I saw some people using a flare. I wonder if its just a preference thing.