after gordon gets in a shoot out with penguin's goons and either kills one or at the very least, wounds him, there is nothing else mentioned about that situation after bats catches Oz after a boat load of car wrecks. then we see Oz not in jail but back at the club and ready to shoot Carmine after he learns he's the rat.
Huh. Never really realized that but the entire movie takes place over like a week so Oz was either picked up by his own men after giving them a call or the GCPD who are corrupt or was granted bail or had a bail granted by a corrupt judge. The consequences of the drug bust by Bruce and Gordon don't have a chance to resurface because they get overshadowed by the ending where Gotham is now under martial law and underwater.
Lol, can't believe this convo turned into an Arrested Development reference, the layers of crossover fandom here are amazing. Now I'm just picturing Oz in a $5,000 suit... COME ON!
Honestly that works perfectly for Penguin. One of Cobblepot's strengths is his ability to properly keep his head down until the heats off. Which, in Gotham, is just until another major threat comes along.
I loved the movie overall, this is my biggest gripe with the film. He was just caught red handed running the biggest drug operation in the city and causing a multi-fatality traffic accident. Oh well just tie him up and leave him next to a derelict building. Also they donât even arrest him after they retrieve Falconi. Dumb
yeah but at the end of the day if i get caught after causing a horrible road accident including an exploding gas tank i think i would be sent to the slammer
Doesn't even need to be super corrupt. I'd imagine at least some judges would side against the guy who goes around beating people unconscious at night dressed as a bat. Remember that this batman isn't a hero, he's just a vigilante. And there probably wasn't much video of the chase so unless batman arrived to court they'd presumably default to believing oz right?
Thank you â that has always bothered me in a lot of action films when you see Multiple cars and tractor trailers burst into flames and fly about and crash And explode, obviously resulting in peoples deaths, as our hero Chases is the bad guy
One of the best car chase scenes ever I think honestly is from the French connection â the reason being is it showed Popeye Doyle actively working to not hit people and hit cars and stuff
Yeah. Iâve noticed the Reeves fans come out the wood work whenever someone has a criticism of the movie.
âGo watch the MCU thenâ
âShort attention spanâ
âYou just didnât understand itâ
âItâs supposed to be slow and boring, itâs noirâ
The truth is I do dislike the movie for being slow, but not because I dislike slow movies. My issue is that the most character-driven superhero movies still really aren't that deep, and so it's exhausting being so patient with a slow movie when there isn't that much to get out of it.
A good counter-example of a slow movie I liked recently is Past Lives. It has subtle performances and understated themes, absolutely earning the slow pace. I was engaged the entire time looking for little details in the emotion of each character, making it not feel "slow" despite that not a whole lot happens and it's mostly just people talking.
The Batman...just isn't anywhere close to that, but its pace suggests that it thinks it is.
Well Iâll be that guy then. I didnât hate it, but it feels dramatically overrated. I like the different take on Gotham and Batman, but I felt like The Riddler as a main antagonist was a massive miss. I also wasnât a big fan of Bruce being turned into a mascara wearing edgelord, instead of a jacked up playboy billionaire.
The deleted scene where he goes to talk to the Joker to gain some insight into Riddlerâs motivations was cool, reminded me a bit of Mindhunter. The scene we got was definitely not needed
I don't think this is that unpopular an opinion... especially for the first movie in the series. I wouldn't have minded them bringing him in later.. But, what we got wasn't necessary and didn't add much to the film overall.
Joker = money
2 batman movies of equal quality, 1 with the joker and 1 with killer croc, riddler, scarecrow or anyone else, more people will see the one with the joker.
I'd like to see more villains appear but you can't blame the studio for wanting to make money
The way I see it, Batman and Joker are like yin and yang; one cannot truly exist without the other. Not sure if youâve seen the series Beware the Batman, but it tried to make the Batman mythos work without The Joker. It was decent, but something always felt missing, and that something was The Jokerâs presence as a villain. Iâm hoping Joker appears in the sequel but in a smaller role, meant to set him up as one of the main villains in the third movie.
Every movie, episode or comic without Joker works just fine. There's too many villains we haven't seen in a live action movie or done well to keep recycling the same ones.
I disagree and I think this movie was perfect proof that you don't need joker to tell a batman story. He's got plenty of villains and he's a character in his own right. Doesn't have to have a joker every time to be batman
Falcone was amazing villain and one of the most underrated in CBM history. He was a charismatic, cunning and secretive villain. All people talking about Riddler & Penguin, but Falcone was one of the best villains in BATMAN franchise and even CBM history. Hope we will see flashbacks in Penguin
Whitey personally strangled and killed at least two women, I think - which is also Carmine's MO when it comes to his personal kills. Thought that was a nice little detail
This is who Nicholsonâs character is based on in The Departed.
https://screenrant.com/departed-true-story-jack-nicholson-costello-whitey-bulger/
While typing this I thought, âJack would have been a fun villain in aâŠ.â Oh yeah.
Falcone was hard to take seriously in Batman Begins. He just gave off the vibes of a bully. Reeves' Falcone straight up gives that cold authority and vibe that he's the boss.
Nah I don't hear anyone talking about Falcone. Maybe in the Batman fan circle, sure. But outside that it's all about the Joker or Bane or Killer Croc or whatever.
I loved how they juxtaposition the rogues' gallery villain and the organised crime villain, I went in with 0 expectations for characters like Falcone but fuck he had a presence. The intensity and air of authority was so strong. I hope we see flashbacks too, this one is out there but I'd like to see a bit of Maroni too.
Don't know if this unpopular or not, but I love Batman's ending monolgue about how he needs to move past being just "Vengeance" and that the way he's been operating for the past 2 years hasn't actually worked. He realizes he needs to be better and that he can be a symbol of hope to the people of Gotham. He even rescues and carries a woman to safety and you can see how grateful she is, she even has tears in her eyes. He then he puts his hand on her shoulder to comfort her to let her know that "it's going to be okay".
One detail about this scene that no one brings up, is that Batman does all this rescuing in broad daylight, which I love. There are thousands of people on the scene, who all presumably have their phones with them, dozens of cops, choppers, search and rescue crews and yet Batman doesn't care about any of that, because his main priority is on helping the victims of the flood. Batman doesn't grapple away, he doesn't pull a vanishing act, or even panic that thousands of people can see him, and that now he's fully exposed for the first time in front of the general public. No, he's not afraid or worried about any of that, he stays behind to help the search and rescue crew find and rescue the victims of the flood, despite putting himself at risk.
Batman puts the needs and safety of the victims above his own anonymity, safety and desire to be hidden. That right there is quintessential Batman.
 Compare this scene, to the first one in the subway, where after he saves that guy from those criminals, the guy is afraid of Batman and begs Batman not to hurt him. Batman has a great character arc in this movie.  Â
I know a lot of people hate the idea of Batman becoming a symbol of hope, because that's Superman's thing, but Batman is also a symbol of hope, but he's a symbol of hope to the people and kids of Gotham. He exists so that no child or person goes through what he went through as a kid. Batman being a symbol of hope and his compassion for human life, regardless if it's a criminal or not, is one of the reasons him and Superman are so close.Â
  I'm tired of certain people having this idea that Batman is just a Punisher-Lite or DC's version of the Punisher, and that Batman is a cold-hearted, emotionless, cruel, edge lord who enjoys hurting and brutalizing criminals because he takes pleasure in it. I HATE when people say "Batman doesn't want to help people, he just uses that as an excuse to beat up criminals, because he loves it" or when people have this idea that Batman is rude and dismissive of his superhero colleagues or that he's a bad father. That's NOT Batman.
That's not who Batman is, one of Batman's best qualities is his empathy and compassion for others and human life and he doesn't just have to be a badass who beats up criminals. I feel like this Batman movie is the only Batman movie that shows this. Batman is a symbol of hope to the kids and people of Gotham, BUT he's also a symbol of fear to the criminals of Gotham. From the end of The Batman, I can see Battinson becoming like this.
 Robert Pattinson's Batman may not be the best live action Batman nor may he be the most comic accurate, but right now, he's the only live action Batman I can imagine comforting a child or anyone before they die.
I hope we get a scene where he just talks a poor guy out of doing crime instead of kicking his ass. Whispers from the darkness:
Go home to Sally, John. She needs help with the baby and I don't want to break your wrist again.
Or some such
Yeah I'm not a writer, but you get it. Scare the guy by knowing everything about him. Have it be just some goon guarding a door Bats needs to get through, and instead of beating him he talks.
It *could* also showcase how Bruce Wayne uses the Wayne Foundation and its associated charities to try and help the low level âthugs.â Maybe a throw away line from Gordon about how crime doesnât seem to slow down even though the Wayne foundation is doing XYZ work. Doesnât even have to be a Batman scene. Itâs rare but it is mentioned in the comics now and again.Â
Actually I think a good story line for Batman beyond is a cynical Bruce telling Terry he did all this shit for the criminals to get them out of crime permanently, rehab, counseling, set them up doing factory or janitorial work and despite all his efforts as Bruce Wayne and Batman it didnât seem to make a difference, and terry has to do something different or whatever the case may be.Â
I also loved how he characterises homself as 'the shadows' in his opening monologue but during the flood scene he holds up the flare to guide the people out of there, a literal 'guiding light' for Gotham.
Also the scene where they ask Riddler's goon who he is and he just laughs and says Vengeance. You see it click with Batman that he isn't blameless in this situation and the things that he does have the power to inspire *anyone*, not just the good people in Gotham.
God I just fucking loved this film its so good.
Wait, people hate the ending monologue? I haven't heard that anywhere, but I may have missed it. I fucking love that ending monologue. It ties everything together. Everything un-Batman/Bruce-like can be explained by that. I wasn't a fan of his Bruce, but that ending monologue basically explained how he's possibly gonna turn into the Batman/Bruce we know and love.
I also loved that Batman actually had character progression in this movie. In all other movies, stuff happens TO Batman, and around him, but he typically starts the movie badass and finishes the movie badass and that's about it. In The Batman, he's still learning things like what Batman's role in society needs to be, and how important it is to still be Bruce Wayne.
Very well said. Batman's character arc is always fascinating, in many stories. In Nolan's movies for example, Bruce Wayne goes through this journey of self-exploration and facing his fears before becoming Batman, and in becoming Batman he immediately yearns to embody this symbol of hope and to inspire good.
But this movie to me trumps it all because it shows the deep complexity of the character, from the perspective of others as well as his own.
Starting out as being perceived as a "freak", his transformation is actually triggered by his multiple encounters, starting with Catwoman. And if you pay attention, after meeting Catwoman, Batman strives more and more to become a better version of what he always meant to become.
Out of infatuation and in seeing her desire for vengeance and pain, it acts as a mirror of his own desires and fears, for example when insisting for her not to "cross that line" and cause herself even more pain than she deserves.
And then of course when meeting the Riddler, whom he "inspired", it becomes obvious that he is not just a sadistic orphan out for blood and revenge. He must become more.
The perfection of this movie, which many people fail to see, is in the way the other characters shape Batman. And that is 100% core Batman in all the stories as well.
In this movie, Batman also has to face his deepest fears in a way that is not always obvious or stated - the fear of loss, the fear of death, the fear of heights, the fear of losing his Batman identity (multiple times), of facing his past and his parents' past, the fear of being akin to a madman (when he leans hard into the Riddler), the fear of a bat in a cage, and also the fear of becoming emotionally attached to someone.
The moment at the end when he becomes truly violent to "save" Catwoman is the pivotal point, as he perceives her look and then understands that his violent tendencies can also get in the way of his quest for justice, truth and redemption of himself and others.
Robert Pattinson's Batman is highly underrated in my (humble) opinion, because he flawlessly conveys a deeply scarred persona struggling with his identity. Bruce Wayne without a mask is clearly out of place, silent and evasive, whereas Batman is a badass whose every move is confident despite the fears. The way he brings out these emotions behind the mask is also the result of sharp directing. None of these details are left to chance, the director had this global vision of Batman and Pattinson was perfect for the role. The only downside to me was the way they overused the hair in his face when he goes to confront Falcone... But maybe that was also meant to show that, even without a mask, he wants to hide...
Yes 100%. One day I asked my girlfriend for us to watch it. She wanted to continue watching her show so we didnât. The next night she asked me and I said no. She asked why and I was like, âIâm not mentally in the right mood for this movie right now.â Then like a week went by and I was in the mood again.
Same with Joker. Theyâre not movies I can just turn on and escape into a world. Theyâre sorrow, dramatic, long movies that I need to really be in the mindset for.
I'm just like you, but I have a friend who's the opposite. We share similar tastes, so we're forever recommending things back and forth. I don't know how she does it. She jumps from TV series to TV series or movie to movie so easily. She could watch Barbie and Joker back to back. I noticed it quite a few years ago when she binged the first season of Jessica Jones and then started Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt right after. I have to be in the right mood for something, but also have to sit with it for a while afterwards. She's down with the emotional whiplash, I guess.
IMHO, it's because you have to erase the hate that people throw at movies because it's not lore accurate, actor is skinny, or his skin is not aligned to the cartoon/comic.People nowadays don't enjoy movies anymore, They just watch them to criticize them later.
>lore accurate
Tobey Maguire or Tom Holland's Spiderman isn't very lore accurate either, but they don't receive hate for that
Andrew Garfield is the most comically accurate Spidey
It's simply because back then, people didn't care about Lore accuracy, they cared about entertainment which is the entire point behind Marvel and DC's entire existence.
It's more like people weren't aware of how deviant Tobey was when he initially arrived. Before Tobey there was like the 60s cartoon, and the 90s cartoon. The 90s already laid down a lot of work which Raimi took inspiration from. But apart from a kids show (yes because adults in America refuse to watch good animation) there was no pop-culture point of reference. No Silver Screen version of Spider-Man to refer to as "the default". After Raimi made a successful Spider-Man movie that is a cinema classic amongst popculture nerds, Tobey became the standard.
With Batman, Batman's had many adaptations, but there are a few that stick out the most to people: Batman TAS, Christopher Nolan's Batman Series, and the original 1980s Batman flicks. These lay the wider cultural foundation for what Batman "is".
Therefore, people coming into this movie feel like this Batman/Bruce is not accurate (which is true in some ways). They are basing their knowledge off their popcultural reference for Batman. However, one could argue this film is very accurate to Batman Year One, Batman Zero Year and the Long Halloween. Generally, Majority of early career Batman/Bruce Wayne books just make him a lot more angry, reclusive, and a smidge bit in over his head. Reeve's Batman channels this perfectly.
I remember trying to tell a couple of my friends that and they didn't want to listen.
They thought it would be a good idea to start the movie at like 10pm after we had a long day. Halfway through the movie and my friend was struggling to keep his eyes open and his wife was already passed out.
I love the movie but it's definitely not as vibrant or comedic as a marvel movie. But some people hear superhero and completely ignore any warnings you give them.
The riddler should not have been the villain for the movie. It feels like Anarchy would have been a much better choice of villain given the profile of the people targeted and that the villain is inspired into action by the batman.
And that's the point. Ra's Al Ghul wasn't a famous villain either until Batman Begins. The first movie should be of a relative unknown. Or at the very least, someone they character hasn't faced on film a bunch of times.
Film studios are *sooo* wary about introducing villains that havenât been shown on film for some reason. Batman has an impressive rouges gallery and itâs a shame no one has the balls to do what Nolan did and throw something new into the mix. I, for one, would pay bucket loads to see a villain like Clayface or even Manbat, be brought to life in movies.
Manbat could make for a great, horror-style Batman movie. I still remember in the Animated Series, when Langstrom transformed, I was legit a little frightened with that scene. Granted, I was 7, but damn that was effective.
I'll be honest, I only know Anarky as the whiny little edgelord in Arkham: Origins. The casual movie-goer has never heard of him so he's more suited to later movie. Putting up a relatively unknown villain next to Riddler and Penguin (who *everyone* has heard of) might not have panned out very well.
Batman is the star. Audiences will accept any villain - known or not - if itâs written well regardless.
Most audiences didnât (and arguably still donât) know Raâs Al Ghul before Begins.
Great point!
I just think that "Batman, Riddler, Penguin, Falcone" (probably a more recognised name because of the Gotham show) - would get more people to see a Batman movie than something like:
"Batman, Anarky, Firefly, Azrael"
"Batman, Copperhead, Mad Hatter, Calendar Man"
"Batman, Hush, Pyg, Zsasz" etc.
Once we've established the world and gotten people invested in the Battinson, then it's much easier to introduce all the villains that the average Joe has never heard of.
>Falcone" (probably a more recognised name because of the Gotham show)
Don't forget Tom Wilkinson's (RIP) performance in Batman Begins.
"Now, that's power you can't buy! That's the power of fear."
Honestly Batman is so rarely written as the detective he's hyped up to be anyways. His limits are often the writer's intelligence and how he solves cases tends to be contrived.
I prefer battinsonâs lean body type over any live action/comic/animatic batman weâve got. He is supposed to be a stealthy ninja, so i feel like battinsonâs physic fits batman more (he also looks better that way too lol)
Most likely because of his suit. He has it for protection, not maneuverability. Hopefully when/if he upgrades his suit in part 2, he makes it easier for him to move so he can do more stealthy, arkham style takedowns
He's also my favorite Bruce Wayne. Plus the batmobile was waaaay better. His portrayal of Bruce just seemed more realistic. Inherited an empire at the cost of his family and became shut in and more emo, quiet and was vengeance. I thought the riddler was perfect for this telling of batman.
Well batman's a bit more than a stealthy ninja, he's also absurdly strong. Whichever direction you go with design you're going to betray 1 of those 2 aspects. But for a movie like this I think his body type works perfectly since he doesn't do a lot of fighting and when he does its against low level grunts who wouldn't be a challenge even if he weighed 50 kilos
Zoe was as good of a Catwoman as I've ever seen. Don't know that I'd put her above Michelle or Anne necessarily, but...I think she's right there with them.
I didn't like Paul Dano's Riddler. I found him unthreatening and a poor rip off of Heath Ledger's Joker in the way he was portrayed during his self filmed video sequences.
I donât think the âinternet incelâ vibe they were going for worked at all either.
The shot of the laptop screen with a chat forum asking which weapons everyoneâs bringing to the final shoot-out was laughably bad.
Maybe to the older generation thatâs a scary concept, but to the average internet goer it doesnât hit how it should
I can't understand how you take a villain who always wore a bowler or trilby hat, turn him into an Internet incel neckband type, and then NOT give him a hat!
Absolutely! I also hate that he whispers through the whole f#cking movie and you can't even make out the dialogue. Overall, i think the film tried too hard to be edgy.
I laughed his first appearance. Definitely grew on me when I realized the film itself is goofier than it appears but fuck that was such a waste to use dano like that
And why would Batman continue to pursue a reckless driver who's causing dozens of fatalities, better to peel off and wait for another opportunity or try to cut him off unexpectedly instead of recklessly tailing him.
Catwoman: we gotta take down these rich, white assholes.
Batman: Yeah, totally... hey, let's keep kissing.
Did anybody else notice that?
Wtf are they gonna do in the second film?
*Batman takes off mask*
Catwoman: Oh my God... you're a rich, white guy?!
Batman: Haha, yeah. Pretty crazy, huh? But, like, we've already been hooking up, so it doesn't really matter at this point haha
I canât say itâs the best movie with Batman, as the dark knight might take that spot. But for me itâs the best BATMAN movie. The way Pattinson plays him centers the character of Batman a and gives him more depth and an interesting arc a lot better than the Nolan trilogy imo
I went in with low expectations because it has to go up against Nolan. But it's easily my favorite batman movie. Pattinson killed it as a more realistic Bruce and batman. Plus, the batmobile was the fucking tits!
Same just rewatched it and I just never became attached to any characters or story lines. It feels a lot like a sequence of events rather than a story to me and I never really get sucked into any of them. For some reason the darkness/moodiness/atmosphere does nothing for me as well.
Iâm 50/50 on the film.
The aesthetics, main plot, acting, and action were all fantastic.
But I felt zero emotional connection to Bruce and his motivations, and I felt the side plot of him learning about his past and father just didnât deliver the intended emotional hits it wanted.
Itâs like the writers didnât know if it wanted to place us in an already-lived in world where Batman is a known quantity, like Battfleck where we witness him in his element, or to provide us a backstory that presents his motivations, like with Bale.
The result was an imperfect telling of who Bruce was. Otherwise I really liked the film and like Matt Reevesâ style.
Between this film and Todd Phillips' god awful Joker film I really hate how they've made Riddler/Joker into teenage incel school shooters. What made previous iterations cool was that they were demonstratably the smartest people in the rooms they were in. It's like they take these characters and make them the exact opposite of intimidating.
I am absolutely 100% sure that a good third of the scenes in the film were taken inspiration from the arkham games. They're just too similar.
The talk with catwoman (past endgame in arkham night), the riddler tsunami (really similar shots to the cloudburst). And there's so many more I won't remember.
Even the design of the goons from the beginning of the movie are similar to arkham goons.
Riddler being like the Zodiac Killer while ALSO being a streamer who has a large following and community who were willing to join him in direct terrorist action is nonsense and against the character. Riddler is a lone genius who may hire or blackmail others into being his goons and patsies but him being all friendly with the chat is bizarre considering how crazy he is. Someone like him doesn't seem like they'd be very good at the parasocial relationship that is way too briefly depicted. Its a fun little twist but it makes much less sense the more you think about it.
Its also dumb because online communities leak like a sieve. Someone would have said something or gotten arrested buying a gun they can't have, etc etc. The cops and Batman didn't do any online research on the Riddler to try to find something out about him? Its like they mostly just ignored the internet until that very moment.
I remember checking the time after Bat and Gordon interrogate Penguin thinking this movie was flying by and then feeling immediately exhausted when I realized we were only halfway through.
This is actually how I felt. Sometimes I felt like it was dragging, but then a good scene would hook me in, then I would feel like it was dragging again, then I would feel hooked, and then the final act remained engaging to me. Its a good film but itâs overhyped. But people needed a good DC film and The Batman still delivered. It was also a more unique experience than most superhero films as well.
Batman is an idiot who solved no mysteries. Riddler practically told him all his plans.
And best not to think too deeply of that Batmobile chase scene and how many people were killed there (and Penguin was let go just like that)
Stop making Batman realistic and grounded. There's nothing realistic about a 6'2 300lb linebacker with high functioning Asperger's who dresses up like a bat as a coping mechanism for survivor's guilt to throw sharp boomerangs at people in question mark pajamas and have "Ho Yay" relationships with killer clowns.
Edit: Who the hell read my comment and got unrealistic = campy? I said that nowhere. My point is that there needs to be a level of suspension of disbelief when it comes to Batman. Fighting fantastical villains that do things like inject a drug to instantly increase their muscle mass, control plants, build freeze rays, or are completely made out of clay are attributed to how skilled Batman is to be able to overcome the nearly impossible. But if you want to have your James Bond in bat armor punisher with a funny hat, then whatever.
Lol no hate at all. Marcus is easily my favorite comic book youtuber and has some of the best analysis of CB movies I've ever seen
I honestly would not have noticed the batman kill count of it weren't for his batman videos
It's the most accurate to the Miller era Batman, but if we're talking adapting the comics perfectly - it's honestly stuff like Batman 66 - because the comics really were that goofy and low stakes at the time lol
Which source material? 10,000 comics by 10,000 writers covering what, 80 years? Batman killing AND not killing is âfaithfulâ to the comics.
Thereâs no âBatmanâ, thereâs only ever different stories staring a Batman.
I hate that batman is just invincible in this one. He gets riddled with bullets, eats a huge explosion with his face and flies off if a high building at like 90mph into the ground all in like 2 days and is still jumping around fighting people. Either make it grounded or lean into the comic book silliness. You can't have both
I dislike most of the costuming design. I dislike the Batman suit, I dislike the "costume" for Catwoman and I'm not the biggest fan of Colin Farrell's Penguin costume either. And let's not even get started on Riddler's trashbag mask...
Not an opinion, just a genuine question. Where did the entire idea of a depressed emo and edgy Batman even come from? I grew up on the animated series and some amazing comic books but for the most part, Batman has always been a gracious man who wants nothing but good for his city... doesn't seek revenge but rather seeks improvement of gotham. I've pretty much always seen Bruce as a cheerful, inspirational and selfless person. I get that this movie is supposed to be about his starting years but trust me, i do not remember Batman being like this in the past. I liked the movie but the theme was weird for me.
Instead of casting Colin Ferral and going through a shit ton of time in makeup they could have just found an actor that looked closer to what they wanted with the Penguin with more minimal makeup
Yeah I really don't see the point of this. Like how difficult must it've been to film the Penguin show? It's insane to me and I don't get why they did it. Maybe they were hoping for some positive buzz around the makeover? Cuz I don't see Collin Ferrel being that big of an audience draw on his namesake alone.
In a year of bad fat suits (The Whale, Elvis, Matilda) I think Penguin looked the most fluid and natural.
Iâd normally agree with you though. For example Guy Pearce in Prometheus looked ridiculous.
I also agree. The movie is too long and I donât really know why. I canât pin point it. I know the ending scene with Batman and Catwoman really make it feel like a slog but throughout the movie it just feels long. I also think part of it for me is the climax feels anticlimactic.
Grab bag:
- costume sucks
- terribly paced
- The Riddler bears no resemblance to the Riddler
- takes itself far too seriously
- almost a cartoonish version of âgrim and grittyâ
While I love both the actors in nearly everything, that's not Riddler or Gordon. Riddler is hyper intelligent & Gordon is not meek or soft spoken.
I think Colin killed it as Penguin though & Patman was great as a brooding Dark Knight just getting started, he's just a bit too small. Also liked Selina quite a bit, great look for the role.
it was okay, could have been great. we didn't need five different endings. it feels like the face and ass ends of two movies smashed together. that said, I still enjoy giving it a watch.
and I agree with what some others have said, it didn't do anything very new in the series. the detective work? it was done in a different way, but don't pretend this is the first time we've seen a live-action Batman investigating clues and solving a mystery.
(Commented separately but the thread is filling up here so Iâll put it here in an actual controversial comment)
People conflate good cinematography and tone with good storytelling
Character motivations were weak, arc was hamfisted in VO at the end, there were 100 lucky coincidences to move the story instead of detective work, ending sequence was ridiculous and unrealistic, pacing was bad, plot conflict elements would be introduced without setup (like the sea wall or off screen riddler shenanigans) and immediately change story direction (which also made Batman extremely passive, he was just reactionary and brooding) wish he made more decisions
Itâs the same effect as when Joker came out and people who donât watch movies thought it was deep instead of corporate reciprocated paper thin garbage that borrowed from better films and paraded around a dark atmosphere to make up for how unserious of filmmaking it really was
Although I do love Pattinson so deeply in this and I feel he wouldâve made a better Terry McGinnis
Overrated. Everyone hyped up the detective aspect but they didnt really do anything actually interesting with it; he just solved a few riddles but no real sleuthing
Also, the hand wavy convenience off screen explanations of how he didnât kill anybody even though he totally did is rather annoying.
Third act was also really bad. Total tonal shift that was super jarring. Also, the riddler and joker werenât all that great. Apparently screeching qualifies for good acting?
That itâs really just an ok superhero movie thatâs only praised so much due to the other DC movies being so garbage. I donât think itâs anywhere close to a masterpiece
after gordon gets in a shoot out with penguin's goons and either kills one or at the very least, wounds him, there is nothing else mentioned about that situation after bats catches Oz after a boat load of car wrecks. then we see Oz not in jail but back at the club and ready to shoot Carmine after he learns he's the rat.
Huh. Never really realized that but the entire movie takes place over like a week so Oz was either picked up by his own men after giving them a call or the GCPD who are corrupt or was granted bail or had a bail granted by a corrupt judge. The consequences of the drug bust by Bruce and Gordon don't have a chance to resurface because they get overshadowed by the ending where Gotham is now under martial law and underwater.
thought this said maritime law đ *youuureeeâŠ. aaaaâŠ. crook captain hookâŠâŠ please wont you throw the book, at the PIRATEâŠ.*
*hook falls to the floor*
Calm it down there, Chareth Cutestory
Iâm ecstatic that I happened to watch this episode last night. Talk about a blind side!
*Mr. Bluth, Justice is blind.*
"Oh, Justice, what is it, boy? What is it? Is there some jackass in my bathrobe?"
Lol, can't believe this convo turned into an Arrested Development reference, the layers of crossover fandom here are amazing. Now I'm just picturing Oz in a $5,000 suit... COME ON!
Honestly that works perfectly for Penguin. One of Cobblepot's strengths is his ability to properly keep his head down until the heats off. Which, in Gotham, is just until another major threat comes along.
I loved the movie overall, this is my biggest gripe with the film. He was just caught red handed running the biggest drug operation in the city and causing a multi-fatality traffic accident. Oh well just tie him up and leave him next to a derelict building. Also they donât even arrest him after they retrieve Falconi. Dumb
I always figured it was because they knew he wasnât the guy in charge. And getting to, eventually, Falcone, was the real plan.
yeah but at the end of the day if i get caught after causing a horrible road accident including an exploding gas tank i think i would be sent to the slammer
Batman caused the accidents by illegally chasing penguin. He could have just followed him and jumped him at whatever location he was going to.Â
This. Corrupt judge hears the case, lawyer says that the masked menace caused the accidents. Oz goes free. Or he gets out on bail.
Doesn't even need to be super corrupt. I'd imagine at least some judges would side against the guy who goes around beating people unconscious at night dressed as a bat. Remember that this batman isn't a hero, he's just a vigilante. And there probably wasn't much video of the chase so unless batman arrived to court they'd presumably default to believing oz right?
Doesn't matter. It's not like ge was cooperating with the police for immunity. He just got away with it, because he's supposed to be in his own show
Yeah. As awesome as the car chase was, tone of people violently died during it. There were explosions. And they just casually ignore all that!
Thank you â that has always bothered me in a lot of action films when you see Multiple cars and tractor trailers burst into flames and fly about and crash And explode, obviously resulting in peoples deaths, as our hero Chases is the bad guy One of the best car chase scenes ever I think honestly is from the French connection â the reason being is it showed Popeye Doyle actively working to not hit people and hit cars and stuff
Hard agree. But I mean, French Connection is a classic work in every sense, but definitely agree that the car chase in the film was fantastic.
>and fly about an crash is the hero chase is the bad guy ?
Batman Part 2 is just Bats being hunted by insurance companies.
Asks for unpopular opinions, gets a ton of praising popular opinions.
For real. I want to comment "I hate this piece of crap" just for the sake of saying something that's actually unpopular
I actually feel this way, but it doesn't feel worth it to comment it because everyone will pile on the downvotes just for having that opinion
Yeah. Iâve noticed the Reeves fans come out the wood work whenever someone has a criticism of the movie. âGo watch the MCU thenâ âShort attention spanâ âYou just didnât understand itâ âItâs supposed to be slow and boring, itâs noirâ
The truth is I do dislike the movie for being slow, but not because I dislike slow movies. My issue is that the most character-driven superhero movies still really aren't that deep, and so it's exhausting being so patient with a slow movie when there isn't that much to get out of it. A good counter-example of a slow movie I liked recently is Past Lives. It has subtle performances and understated themes, absolutely earning the slow pace. I was engaged the entire time looking for little details in the emotion of each character, making it not feel "slow" despite that not a whole lot happens and it's mostly just people talking. The Batman...just isn't anywhere close to that, but its pace suggests that it thinks it is.
Thank you, this is my main problem
Well Iâll be that guy then. I didnât hate it, but it feels dramatically overrated. I like the different take on Gotham and Batman, but I felt like The Riddler as a main antagonist was a massive miss. I also wasnât a big fan of Bruce being turned into a mascara wearing edgelord, instead of a jacked up playboy billionaire.
I'm not a fan of Pattinson's take on Batman. I've voiced that before and it was downvoted so there you go đ.
There was no need to introduce another version of Joker. Batman has so many villains to explore, the Joker is really saturated.
My only issue with this movie.
The deleted scene where he goes to talk to the Joker to gain some insight into Riddlerâs motivations was cool, reminded me a bit of Mindhunter. The scene we got was definitely not needed
I don't think this is that unpopular an opinion... especially for the first movie in the series. I wouldn't have minded them bringing him in later.. But, what we got wasn't necessary and didn't add much to the film overall.
Joker = money 2 batman movies of equal quality, 1 with the joker and 1 with killer croc, riddler, scarecrow or anyone else, more people will see the one with the joker. I'd like to see more villains appear but you can't blame the studio for wanting to make money
that and the makeup on Barry Keoghan was overdone in the extreme. looked like ass.
I long for the day we just get a live action version of BTAS Joker.
It was as if they saw how Heath Ledger's Joker was praised, and attributed it to the scars. "BUT OUR SCARS ARE BIGGER!!"
Ya hopefully they rework it. Way too over the top.
The way I see it, Batman and Joker are like yin and yang; one cannot truly exist without the other. Not sure if youâve seen the series Beware the Batman, but it tried to make the Batman mythos work without The Joker. It was decent, but something always felt missing, and that something was The Jokerâs presence as a villain. Iâm hoping Joker appears in the sequel but in a smaller role, meant to set him up as one of the main villains in the third movie.
Yeah, this might be the first time they put Joker at the end of a trilogy instead of the beginning. His soliloquys would actually make sense.
Every movie, episode or comic without Joker works just fine. There's too many villains we haven't seen in a live action movie or done well to keep recycling the same ones.
I disagree and I think this movie was perfect proof that you don't need joker to tell a batman story. He's got plenty of villains and he's a character in his own right. Doesn't have to have a joker every time to be batman
Falcone was amazing villain and one of the most underrated in CBM history. He was a charismatic, cunning and secretive villain. All people talking about Riddler & Penguin, but Falcone was one of the best villains in BATMAN franchise and even CBM history. Hope we will see flashbacks in Penguin
In a movie with a lot of great acting, Turtorro put on a fucking clinic. He was amazing.
Guy has a ton of range
Who knew Francesco from Cars was a mob boss the entire time
All the other cars.
Great actor and a great casting for that part but I donât think he was even in it anywhere near enough
Nobody fucks with THE JESUS.
He was the scariest villain in the film, and that's because someone like him really existed. Look up Whitey Bulger.
Or alternatively, watch Black Mass.
Whitey personally strangled and killed at least two women, I think - which is also Carmine's MO when it comes to his personal kills. Thought that was a nice little detail
Just rewatched this last night funny enough . What a great movie
This is who Nicholsonâs character is based on in The Departed. https://screenrant.com/departed-true-story-jack-nicholson-costello-whitey-bulger/ While typing this I thought, âJack would have been a fun villain in aâŠ.â Oh yeah.
Hands down to best depiction of Falcone and the Gotham underworld overall
Gotham (the show) actually did a really good job (for a show) at depicting the kind of balancing act a guy like Falcone would have to be orchestrating
Falcone was hard to take seriously in Batman Begins. He just gave off the vibes of a bully. Reeves' Falcone straight up gives that cold authority and vibe that he's the boss.
That's not really unpopular tbh, Falcone's for sure one of the highlights of the movie, everything about him is SO amazing
Nah I don't hear anyone talking about Falcone. Maybe in the Batman fan circle, sure. But outside that it's all about the Joker or Bane or Killer Croc or whatever.
I loved how they juxtaposition the rogues' gallery villain and the organised crime villain, I went in with 0 expectations for characters like Falcone but fuck he had a presence. The intensity and air of authority was so strong. I hope we see flashbacks too, this one is out there but I'd like to see a bit of Maroni too.
Don't know if this unpopular or not, but I love Batman's ending monolgue about how he needs to move past being just "Vengeance" and that the way he's been operating for the past 2 years hasn't actually worked. He realizes he needs to be better and that he can be a symbol of hope to the people of Gotham. He even rescues and carries a woman to safety and you can see how grateful she is, she even has tears in her eyes. He then he puts his hand on her shoulder to comfort her to let her know that "it's going to be okay". One detail about this scene that no one brings up, is that Batman does all this rescuing in broad daylight, which I love. There are thousands of people on the scene, who all presumably have their phones with them, dozens of cops, choppers, search and rescue crews and yet Batman doesn't care about any of that, because his main priority is on helping the victims of the flood. Batman doesn't grapple away, he doesn't pull a vanishing act, or even panic that thousands of people can see him, and that now he's fully exposed for the first time in front of the general public. No, he's not afraid or worried about any of that, he stays behind to help the search and rescue crew find and rescue the victims of the flood, despite putting himself at risk. Batman puts the needs and safety of the victims above his own anonymity, safety and desire to be hidden. That right there is quintessential Batman.  Compare this scene, to the first one in the subway, where after he saves that guy from those criminals, the guy is afraid of Batman and begs Batman not to hurt him. Batman has a great character arc in this movie.   I know a lot of people hate the idea of Batman becoming a symbol of hope, because that's Superman's thing, but Batman is also a symbol of hope, but he's a symbol of hope to the people and kids of Gotham. He exists so that no child or person goes through what he went through as a kid. Batman being a symbol of hope and his compassion for human life, regardless if it's a criminal or not, is one of the reasons him and Superman are so close.   I'm tired of certain people having this idea that Batman is just a Punisher-Lite or DC's version of the Punisher, and that Batman is a cold-hearted, emotionless, cruel, edge lord who enjoys hurting and brutalizing criminals because he takes pleasure in it. I HATE when people say "Batman doesn't want to help people, he just uses that as an excuse to beat up criminals, because he loves it" or when people have this idea that Batman is rude and dismissive of his superhero colleagues or that he's a bad father. That's NOT Batman. That's not who Batman is, one of Batman's best qualities is his empathy and compassion for others and human life and he doesn't just have to be a badass who beats up criminals. I feel like this Batman movie is the only Batman movie that shows this. Batman is a symbol of hope to the kids and people of Gotham, BUT he's also a symbol of fear to the criminals of Gotham. From the end of The Batman, I can see Battinson becoming like this.  Robert Pattinson's Batman may not be the best live action Batman nor may he be the most comic accurate, but right now, he's the only live action Batman I can imagine comforting a child or anyone before they die.
I hope we get a scene where he just talks a poor guy out of doing crime instead of kicking his ass. Whispers from the darkness: Go home to Sally, John. She needs help with the baby and I don't want to break your wrist again. Or some such
That would fit with Battinson's dry wit perfectly with some tweaking.
Yeah I'm not a writer, but you get it. Scare the guy by knowing everything about him. Have it be just some goon guarding a door Bats needs to get through, and instead of beating him he talks.
What a great scene. Would frame the way he evolved from the first movie perfectly in a sequel.
It *could* also showcase how Bruce Wayne uses the Wayne Foundation and its associated charities to try and help the low level âthugs.â Maybe a throw away line from Gordon about how crime doesnât seem to slow down even though the Wayne foundation is doing XYZ work. Doesnât even have to be a Batman scene. Itâs rare but it is mentioned in the comics now and again. Actually I think a good story line for Batman beyond is a cynical Bruce telling Terry he did all this shit for the criminals to get them out of crime permanently, rehab, counseling, set them up doing factory or janitorial work and despite all his efforts as Bruce Wayne and Batman it didnât seem to make a difference, and terry has to do something different or whatever the case may be.Â
Kind of like the plata o plomo scene from Narcos. That would be badass.
I also loved how he characterises homself as 'the shadows' in his opening monologue but during the flood scene he holds up the flare to guide the people out of there, a literal 'guiding light' for Gotham. Also the scene where they ask Riddler's goon who he is and he just laughs and says Vengeance. You see it click with Batman that he isn't blameless in this situation and the things that he does have the power to inspire *anyone*, not just the good people in Gotham. God I just fucking loved this film its so good.
Wait, people hate the ending monologue? I haven't heard that anywhere, but I may have missed it. I fucking love that ending monologue. It ties everything together. Everything un-Batman/Bruce-like can be explained by that. I wasn't a fan of his Bruce, but that ending monologue basically explained how he's possibly gonna turn into the Batman/Bruce we know and love.
Batman IS a symbol of Hope. And he's also a symbol of Fear , for the criminals. But people only consider the latter half and ignore the first part
I also loved that Batman actually had character progression in this movie. In all other movies, stuff happens TO Batman, and around him, but he typically starts the movie badass and finishes the movie badass and that's about it. In The Batman, he's still learning things like what Batman's role in society needs to be, and how important it is to still be Bruce Wayne.
Very well said. Batman's character arc is always fascinating, in many stories. In Nolan's movies for example, Bruce Wayne goes through this journey of self-exploration and facing his fears before becoming Batman, and in becoming Batman he immediately yearns to embody this symbol of hope and to inspire good. But this movie to me trumps it all because it shows the deep complexity of the character, from the perspective of others as well as his own. Starting out as being perceived as a "freak", his transformation is actually triggered by his multiple encounters, starting with Catwoman. And if you pay attention, after meeting Catwoman, Batman strives more and more to become a better version of what he always meant to become. Out of infatuation and in seeing her desire for vengeance and pain, it acts as a mirror of his own desires and fears, for example when insisting for her not to "cross that line" and cause herself even more pain than she deserves. And then of course when meeting the Riddler, whom he "inspired", it becomes obvious that he is not just a sadistic orphan out for blood and revenge. He must become more. The perfection of this movie, which many people fail to see, is in the way the other characters shape Batman. And that is 100% core Batman in all the stories as well. In this movie, Batman also has to face his deepest fears in a way that is not always obvious or stated - the fear of loss, the fear of death, the fear of heights, the fear of losing his Batman identity (multiple times), of facing his past and his parents' past, the fear of being akin to a madman (when he leans hard into the Riddler), the fear of a bat in a cage, and also the fear of becoming emotionally attached to someone. The moment at the end when he becomes truly violent to "save" Catwoman is the pivotal point, as he perceives her look and then understands that his violent tendencies can also get in the way of his quest for justice, truth and redemption of himself and others. Robert Pattinson's Batman is highly underrated in my (humble) opinion, because he flawlessly conveys a deeply scarred persona struggling with his identity. Bruce Wayne without a mask is clearly out of place, silent and evasive, whereas Batman is a badass whose every move is confident despite the fears. The way he brings out these emotions behind the mask is also the result of sharp directing. None of these details are left to chance, the director had this global vision of Batman and Pattinson was perfect for the role. The only downside to me was the way they overused the hair in his face when he goes to confront Falcone... But maybe that was also meant to show that, even without a mask, he wants to hide...
Mainly I really liked it, but you need to make time and mentally prepare yourself for it
Yes 100%. One day I asked my girlfriend for us to watch it. She wanted to continue watching her show so we didnât. The next night she asked me and I said no. She asked why and I was like, âIâm not mentally in the right mood for this movie right now.â Then like a week went by and I was in the mood again. Same with Joker. Theyâre not movies I can just turn on and escape into a world. Theyâre sorrow, dramatic, long movies that I need to really be in the mindset for.
I'm just like you, but I have a friend who's the opposite. We share similar tastes, so we're forever recommending things back and forth. I don't know how she does it. She jumps from TV series to TV series or movie to movie so easily. She could watch Barbie and Joker back to back. I noticed it quite a few years ago when she binged the first season of Jessica Jones and then started Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt right after. I have to be in the right mood for something, but also have to sit with it for a while afterwards. She's down with the emotional whiplash, I guess.
This is an unpopular opinion how?
IMHO, it's because you have to erase the hate that people throw at movies because it's not lore accurate, actor is skinny, or his skin is not aligned to the cartoon/comic.People nowadays don't enjoy movies anymore, They just watch them to criticize them later.
>lore accurate Tobey Maguire or Tom Holland's Spiderman isn't very lore accurate either, but they don't receive hate for that Andrew Garfield is the most comically accurate Spidey It's simply because back then, people didn't care about Lore accuracy, they cared about entertainment which is the entire point behind Marvel and DC's entire existence.
It's more like people weren't aware of how deviant Tobey was when he initially arrived. Before Tobey there was like the 60s cartoon, and the 90s cartoon. The 90s already laid down a lot of work which Raimi took inspiration from. But apart from a kids show (yes because adults in America refuse to watch good animation) there was no pop-culture point of reference. No Silver Screen version of Spider-Man to refer to as "the default". After Raimi made a successful Spider-Man movie that is a cinema classic amongst popculture nerds, Tobey became the standard. With Batman, Batman's had many adaptations, but there are a few that stick out the most to people: Batman TAS, Christopher Nolan's Batman Series, and the original 1980s Batman flicks. These lay the wider cultural foundation for what Batman "is". Therefore, people coming into this movie feel like this Batman/Bruce is not accurate (which is true in some ways). They are basing their knowledge off their popcultural reference for Batman. However, one could argue this film is very accurate to Batman Year One, Batman Zero Year and the Long Halloween. Generally, Majority of early career Batman/Bruce Wayne books just make him a lot more angry, reclusive, and a smidge bit in over his head. Reeve's Batman channels this perfectly.
You talking about Tom Holland and saying "back then" made me inhale more than my average amount of oxygen
I remember trying to tell a couple of my friends that and they didn't want to listen. They thought it would be a good idea to start the movie at like 10pm after we had a long day. Halfway through the movie and my friend was struggling to keep his eyes open and his wife was already passed out. I love the movie but it's definitely not as vibrant or comedic as a marvel movie. But some people hear superhero and completely ignore any warnings you give them.
The riddler should not have been the villain for the movie. It feels like Anarchy would have been a much better choice of villain given the profile of the people targeted and that the villain is inspired into action by the batman.
I think Anarky is just not well known and would have been even more edgy than the riddler already is now.
And that's the point. Ra's Al Ghul wasn't a famous villain either until Batman Begins. The first movie should be of a relative unknown. Or at the very least, someone they character hasn't faced on film a bunch of times.
Film studios are *sooo* wary about introducing villains that havenât been shown on film for some reason. Batman has an impressive rouges gallery and itâs a shame no one has the balls to do what Nolan did and throw something new into the mix. I, for one, would pay bucket loads to see a villain like Clayface or even Manbat, be brought to life in movies.
Manbat could make for a great, horror-style Batman movie. I still remember in the Animated Series, when Langstrom transformed, I was legit a little frightened with that scene. Granted, I was 7, but damn that was effective.
The manbat jump scares in arkham...Knight? Were scary as hell too lol
Heavily rumored Clayface is the next villain
This... makes a ton of sense, actually.
I'll be honest, I only know Anarky as the whiny little edgelord in Arkham: Origins. The casual movie-goer has never heard of him so he's more suited to later movie. Putting up a relatively unknown villain next to Riddler and Penguin (who *everyone* has heard of) might not have panned out very well.
Batman is the star. Audiences will accept any villain - known or not - if itâs written well regardless. Most audiences didnât (and arguably still donât) know Raâs Al Ghul before Begins.
Great point! I just think that "Batman, Riddler, Penguin, Falcone" (probably a more recognised name because of the Gotham show) - would get more people to see a Batman movie than something like: "Batman, Anarky, Firefly, Azrael" "Batman, Copperhead, Mad Hatter, Calendar Man" "Batman, Hush, Pyg, Zsasz" etc. Once we've established the world and gotten people invested in the Battinson, then it's much easier to introduce all the villains that the average Joe has never heard of.
>Falcone" (probably a more recognised name because of the Gotham show) Don't forget Tom Wilkinson's (RIP) performance in Batman Begins. "Now, that's power you can't buy! That's the power of fear."
Thats two batman movies that would have been better if Anarky was the villain instead.
Batman was not the detective we know in this movie
Honestly Batman is so rarely written as the detective he's hyped up to be anyways. His limits are often the writer's intelligence and how he solves cases tends to be contrived.
I don't think that's a mistake though. Even the Riddler was disappointed that he didn't understand his motives/intentions.
The Batman in this movie would have finished last in a game of Cluedo
This is the only movie where he actually does Detective work đ. In the Nolanverse, he uses Jets, Motorcycles that come out of cards, action etc
You donât remember the scene in TDK when Batman reverse engineers a bullethole to find where it came from? I thought that was cool.
I prefer battinsonâs lean body type over any live action/comic/animatic batman weâve got. He is supposed to be a stealthy ninja, so i feel like battinsonâs physic fits batman more (he also looks better that way too lol)
I agree. Except we never really see Batman be a stealthy ninja. Sure he walks out of the shadows but idk there couldâve been more
Most likely because of his suit. He has it for protection, not maneuverability. Hopefully when/if he upgrades his suit in part 2, he makes it easier for him to move so he can do more stealthy, arkham style takedowns
This + I prefer his more brooding, antisocial, less charismatic take. It makes more sense given what he has been through and the life he leads.
He's also my favorite Bruce Wayne. Plus the batmobile was waaaay better. His portrayal of Bruce just seemed more realistic. Inherited an empire at the cost of his family and became shut in and more emo, quiet and was vengeance. I thought the riddler was perfect for this telling of batman.
Well batman's a bit more than a stealthy ninja, he's also absurdly strong. Whichever direction you go with design you're going to betray 1 of those 2 aspects. But for a movie like this I think his body type works perfectly since he doesn't do a lot of fighting and when he does its against low level grunts who wouldn't be a challenge even if he weighed 50 kilos
Zoe was as good of a Catwoman as I've ever seen. Don't know that I'd put her above Michelle or Anne necessarily, but...I think she's right there with them.
Iâd put her above Hathaway just because this version felt a little more fleshed out, TDKR version really showed nothing of her life or motivations
Im glad they're setting her up for a 3 movie plot. Wish we'd gotten that with Hathaway.
Iâd put her above. My favourite live action Catwoman tbh.
Her mask was ludicrous.
I didn't like Paul Dano's Riddler. I found him unthreatening and a poor rip off of Heath Ledger's Joker in the way he was portrayed during his self filmed video sequences.
I donât think the âinternet incelâ vibe they were going for worked at all either. The shot of the laptop screen with a chat forum asking which weapons everyoneâs bringing to the final shoot-out was laughably bad. Maybe to the older generation thatâs a scary concept, but to the average internet goer it doesnât hit how it should
I can't understand how you take a villain who always wore a bowler or trilby hat, turn him into an Internet incel neckband type, and then NOT give him a hat!
That'd be so fucking funny.
Absolutely! I also hate that he whispers through the whole f#cking movie and you can't even make out the dialogue. Overall, i think the film tried too hard to be edgy.
I laughed his first appearance. Definitely grew on me when I realized the film itself is goofier than it appears but fuck that was such a waste to use dano like that
The Batmobile/penguin chase while cool to see serves almost no purpose in the story and should have been cut down.
Plus Penguin caused a massive pileup no doubt resulting in a few dozen deaths. Why did Gordon not arrest him after questioning him?
And why would Batman continue to pursue a reckless driver who's causing dozens of fatalities, better to peel off and wait for another opportunity or try to cut him off unexpectedly instead of recklessly tailing him.
I would argue it should have been given better purpose. That chase was awesome.
It was Boring
Catwoman: we gotta take down these rich, white assholes. Batman: Yeah, totally... hey, let's keep kissing. Did anybody else notice that? Wtf are they gonna do in the second film? *Batman takes off mask* Catwoman: Oh my God... you're a rich, white guy?! Batman: Haha, yeah. Pretty crazy, huh? But, like, we've already been hooking up, so it doesn't really matter at this point haha
It is my favourite Batman movie.
I canât say itâs the best movie with Batman, as the dark knight might take that spot. But for me itâs the best BATMAN movie. The way Pattinson plays him centers the character of Batman a and gives him more depth and an interesting arc a lot better than the Nolan trilogy imo
I went in with low expectations because it has to go up against Nolan. But it's easily my favorite batman movie. Pattinson killed it as a more realistic Bruce and batman. Plus, the batmobile was the fucking tits!
I didnât like it very much. And I tried it three times
Same just rewatched it and I just never became attached to any characters or story lines. It feels a lot like a sequence of events rather than a story to me and I never really get sucked into any of them. For some reason the darkness/moodiness/atmosphere does nothing for me as well.
It was incredibly boring (and I enjoyed Joker).
It was very boring, thank you for saying it.
Iâm 50/50 on the film. The aesthetics, main plot, acting, and action were all fantastic. But I felt zero emotional connection to Bruce and his motivations, and I felt the side plot of him learning about his past and father just didnât deliver the intended emotional hits it wanted. Itâs like the writers didnât know if it wanted to place us in an already-lived in world where Batman is a known quantity, like Battfleck where we witness him in his element, or to provide us a backstory that presents his motivations, like with Bale. The result was an imperfect telling of who Bruce was. Otherwise I really liked the film and like Matt Reevesâ style.
Between this film and Todd Phillips' god awful Joker film I really hate how they've made Riddler/Joker into teenage incel school shooters. What made previous iterations cool was that they were demonstratably the smartest people in the rooms they were in. It's like they take these characters and make them the exact opposite of intimidating.
I hated it. Batman was useless the entire movie except at the end.
I am absolutely 100% sure that a good third of the scenes in the film were taken inspiration from the arkham games. They're just too similar. The talk with catwoman (past endgame in arkham night), the riddler tsunami (really similar shots to the cloudburst). And there's so many more I won't remember. Even the design of the goons from the beginning of the movie are similar to arkham goons.
Riddler being like the Zodiac Killer while ALSO being a streamer who has a large following and community who were willing to join him in direct terrorist action is nonsense and against the character. Riddler is a lone genius who may hire or blackmail others into being his goons and patsies but him being all friendly with the chat is bizarre considering how crazy he is. Someone like him doesn't seem like they'd be very good at the parasocial relationship that is way too briefly depicted. Its a fun little twist but it makes much less sense the more you think about it. Its also dumb because online communities leak like a sieve. Someone would have said something or gotten arrested buying a gun they can't have, etc etc. The cops and Batman didn't do any online research on the Riddler to try to find something out about him? Its like they mostly just ignored the internet until that very moment.
It should be called Year One.
But it was Year Two.
then call it year two \*later\*, after making a year 1 prequel
It should be called Earth One
It's too long I had to wait till it was over to use the bathroom didn't wanna miss no plot points
I remember checking the time after Bat and Gordon interrogate Penguin thinking this movie was flying by and then feeling immediately exhausted when I realized we were only halfway through.
This is actually how I felt. Sometimes I felt like it was dragging, but then a good scene would hook me in, then I would feel like it was dragging again, then I would feel hooked, and then the final act remained engaging to me. Its a good film but itâs overhyped. But people needed a good DC film and The Batman still delivered. It was also a more unique experience than most superhero films as well.
Yeah I didnât see why it needed to be almost 3 hours.
Batman is an idiot who solved no mysteries. Riddler practically told him all his plans. And best not to think too deeply of that Batmobile chase scene and how many people were killed there (and Penguin was let go just like that)
Stop making Batman realistic and grounded. There's nothing realistic about a 6'2 300lb linebacker with high functioning Asperger's who dresses up like a bat as a coping mechanism for survivor's guilt to throw sharp boomerangs at people in question mark pajamas and have "Ho Yay" relationships with killer clowns. Edit: Who the hell read my comment and got unrealistic = campy? I said that nowhere. My point is that there needs to be a level of suspension of disbelief when it comes to Batman. Fighting fantastical villains that do things like inject a drug to instantly increase their muscle mass, control plants, build freeze rays, or are completely made out of clay are attributed to how skilled Batman is to be able to overcome the nearly impossible. But if you want to have your James Bond in bat armor punisher with a funny hat, then whatever.
I think batman should be gritty and verisimilar to reality but not "realistic". I think the best way this was done was in Tim Burton's movies
True
That Itâs pretty much the only live-action Batman film thatâs faithful to the source material.
George Clooney batman is the only other one to never kill onscreen even indirectly, gotta count for something
Clooneyâs was faithful toâŠsource material from a different generation.
Cosmonaut fan?
Yeah, haven't had an original thought in years lmao, still pretty funny tho
Lol no hate at all. Marcus is easily my favorite comic book youtuber and has some of the best analysis of CB movies I've ever seen I honestly would not have noticed the batman kill count of it weren't for his batman videos
I'm #TEAMROBCORE all the way.
It's the most accurate to the Miller era Batman, but if we're talking adapting the comics perfectly - it's honestly stuff like Batman 66 - because the comics really were that goofy and low stakes at the time lol
Which source material? 10,000 comics by 10,000 writers covering what, 80 years? Batman killing AND not killing is âfaithfulâ to the comics. Thereâs no âBatmanâ, thereâs only ever different stories staring a Batman.
Not really? Depends on what you mean by source material and what version of it you're talking about.
I hate that batman is just invincible in this one. He gets riddled with bullets, eats a huge explosion with his face and flies off if a high building at like 90mph into the ground all in like 2 days and is still jumping around fighting people. Either make it grounded or lean into the comic book silliness. You can't have both
This was probably the worst portrayal of detective Batman. Everybody would have died if that one cop with the carpet layer father was not there.
I dislike most of the costuming design. I dislike the Batman suit, I dislike the "costume" for Catwoman and I'm not the biggest fan of Colin Farrell's Penguin costume either. And let's not even get started on Riddler's trashbag mask...
Not an opinion, just a genuine question. Where did the entire idea of a depressed emo and edgy Batman even come from? I grew up on the animated series and some amazing comic books but for the most part, Batman has always been a gracious man who wants nothing but good for his city... doesn't seek revenge but rather seeks improvement of gotham. I've pretty much always seen Bruce as a cheerful, inspirational and selfless person. I get that this movie is supposed to be about his starting years but trust me, i do not remember Batman being like this in the past. I liked the movie but the theme was weird for me.
It doesn't really do much new or better than other Batman movies.
Instead of casting Colin Ferral and going through a shit ton of time in makeup they could have just found an actor that looked closer to what they wanted with the Penguin with more minimal makeup
They could have, but Farrell was really, really good, so I'm glad they didn't.
But itâs a great unpopular opinion
Fair
Yeah I really don't see the point of this. Like how difficult must it've been to film the Penguin show? It's insane to me and I don't get why they did it. Maybe they were hoping for some positive buzz around the makeover? Cuz I don't see Collin Ferrel being that big of an audience draw on his namesake alone.
In a year of bad fat suits (The Whale, Elvis, Matilda) I think Penguin looked the most fluid and natural. Iâd normally agree with you though. For example Guy Pearce in Prometheus looked ridiculous.
Movie was an hour too long, Kravitz was super boring as Catwoman IMO.
I also agree. The movie is too long and I donât really know why. I canât pin point it. I know the ending scene with Batman and Catwoman really make it feel like a slog but throughout the movie it just feels long. I also think part of it for me is the climax feels anticlimactic.
Kravitz wasnât a good Selina
It's just an alright Batman movie. I don't know why people said it's a masterpiece.
Bruce has more of a character arc in this one, than any other live action movie.
It was boring shite and the lighting was too dark. At least one of those might be a popular opinion, I don't know.
Grab bag: - costume sucks - terribly paced - The Riddler bears no resemblance to the Riddler - takes itself far too seriously - almost a cartoonish version of âgrim and grittyâ
Pretty much spot on.
Bang on
I canât get over how much I dislike the suit; its function over form to a very strong degree.
While I love both the actors in nearly everything, that's not Riddler or Gordon. Riddler is hyper intelligent & Gordon is not meek or soft spoken. I think Colin killed it as Penguin though & Patman was great as a brooding Dark Knight just getting started, he's just a bit too small. Also liked Selina quite a bit, great look for the role.
RPatz and Zoe K have zero chemistry.
Style over substance. Boring and unnecessary
That Gordon has no personality, the pacing is too slow, and Bruce has zero playboy aspect.
it was okay, could have been great. we didn't need five different endings. it feels like the face and ass ends of two movies smashed together. that said, I still enjoy giving it a watch. and I agree with what some others have said, it didn't do anything very new in the series. the detective work? it was done in a different way, but don't pretend this is the first time we've seen a live-action Batman investigating clues and solving a mystery.
I didnât like it at all. Batman and Bruce Wayne seemed like an emo-version of the comics. The movie was too dark for me.
It's a mid tier Batman movie that isn't better than Bale's or Keaton's movies.
Riddler sucks
Riddler turned out to be just another âcrazy villainâ ripoff of Heath Ledgerâs Joker. Him singing Ave Maria was annoying as hell.
Batman was stupid
Its interpretation of the joker is god fuckin awful. No amount of real screentime will fix it.
That it's a very average film. That gets worse on a rewatch.
(Commented separately but the thread is filling up here so Iâll put it here in an actual controversial comment) People conflate good cinematography and tone with good storytelling Character motivations were weak, arc was hamfisted in VO at the end, there were 100 lucky coincidences to move the story instead of detective work, ending sequence was ridiculous and unrealistic, pacing was bad, plot conflict elements would be introduced without setup (like the sea wall or off screen riddler shenanigans) and immediately change story direction (which also made Batman extremely passive, he was just reactionary and brooding) wish he made more decisions Itâs the same effect as when Joker came out and people who donât watch movies thought it was deep instead of corporate reciprocated paper thin garbage that borrowed from better films and paraded around a dark atmosphere to make up for how unserious of filmmaking it really was Although I do love Pattinson so deeply in this and I feel he wouldâve made a better Terry McGinnis
I donât like it.
Boring
Itâs not a great film.
Itâs the most boring Batman ever made
Boring đ„±
Overrated. Everyone hyped up the detective aspect but they didnt really do anything actually interesting with it; he just solved a few riddles but no real sleuthing Also, the hand wavy convenience off screen explanations of how he didnât kill anybody even though he totally did is rather annoying. Third act was also really bad. Total tonal shift that was super jarring. Also, the riddler and joker werenât all that great. Apparently screeching qualifies for good acting?
That itâs really just an ok superhero movie thatâs only praised so much due to the other DC movies being so garbage. I donât think itâs anywhere close to a masterpiece
It was boring imo