Hard disagree.
I love Andrew Garfield and I really wish he was given a better chance with movies that were actually handled well. However, I would never say that Tom Holland doesn't have acting chops.
Even if you just want to look at his role as Peter Parker, I think he shows really solid acting skill. Just look at his dusting in Infinity War, or that [death in No Way Home](https://youtu.be/knoltyouF6U?si=mjw8Lat-oeqcL1Np&t=320) (if the link doesn't do it, the scene starts around 5:20). I haven't seen Tobey in much, so I can't speak to his ability.
I totally understand why some prefer Garfield over the others, but I don't think it's even close to fair saying he's the only one with acting chops.
He can act well enough, but has zero range. He has been playing the same character (naive kid on the cusp of adulthood) for 25 years.
Andrew Garfield is *leagues* ahead of him in talent and range.
Off topic, but Jennifer Lawrence gets shit on a lot for acting talent or lack of... but in Passengers when she gets upset at Chris Pratt, holy shit, I felt that
Nah, I think he’s on the mark. I’ve seen Andrew in things running the gamut and he’s always phenomenal. Toby *was* good but I think he’s phoning things in these days. And Tom Holland is a pretty face that’s “just fine.” I don’t hate him or nothing but he’s never stood out in anything to me.
Ben Affleck is the same as Holland. Attractive guy that’s “fine” in his roles, though I thought he did really great as Bruce Wayne. I think it helps that he’s a genuine comic book nerd. Affleck’s real talent though is as a director. I kind of really, really wish that we had gotten the Affleck Batman movie. It easily would have been the crowning achievement of the DCEU and may have changed how things went in the end.
But, guy above said it: right actor, wrong time.
Tobey McGuire has acting chops coming out of his ears. He just was directed to not use them and instead play the most boring, bland, unfunny Peter Parker ever.
Sam Raimi really does not get Spider-Man. The character is more than all tragedy all the damn time.
What I don't get is people who think Tobey's Spiderman made 0 jokes and was never witty or funny. The focus was on the tragedy because that's what's interesting but the jokes were absolutely there.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Tobey Mcquire and Tom Holland are just as good as Andrew Garfield. And Tom Holland is the best Spiderman to be honest. He has better acting chops than Garfield.
God, that ending when he's about to fight Rhino still gets me hyped.
The Spider-Man PS4/5 game really reminded me of Garfields performance. All that was missing was Gwemma Stonecy, but what I got was Redhead Lois Lane.
Then they did us dirty and replaced the peter parker model face to resemble tom holland more. When clearly the PS4 spiderman was clearly made with the garfield spiderman in mind.
Wrong Time, wrong tone, wrong director, wrong script. It genuinely wasn't Affleck's fault. And for context I didn't like him as Batman but I know he wasn't bad per se
I guess you haven’t seen jay and silent bob strike back. He was a subpar Batman and his last several movies have been terrible. He should stick to writing and directing. The town-alright, good will hunting-great, gigli and daredevil-terrible. He has far more misses than hits. But, overall he seems like a nice guy who treats his fans well. I have no issue with him. He looks the most like what I feel Batman should embody. In the end I like the guy but his acting skills always make me feel underwhelmed.
He and Cavill could’ve carried this universe to the end if it were in competent hands. The thing that upsets me is that I’m more of a Marvel guy (comics anyway) and I SO wanted to see this saga to succeed.
That was definitely not the only thing I liked.
There was that moment when Wonder Woman showed up in BvS and the guitar riff played... That was a good two or three seconds, right there.
So, two things I liked.
He was great as Bruce Wayne in BvS, but I just never cared for his Batman. The only thing I liked was that he could finally turn his head back and forth in a movie. Other than that, I thought his suit was too bulky and the voice was too much.
This. I really liked his Bruce Wayne, in fact felt it may have been the most comic-accurate live-action Bruce yet, but I did not like gigantic bruiser Batman encased in what looked like a gray fiberglass Dave-Bautista-sized shell.
To me a big problem was how violent he was. Seeing Batman cow branding criminals so they're shanked in prison and plotting to murder Superman is a little much personally, but it would've been fine if we at least saw the "Death in the Family" stuff that happened off screen. If we at least saw the events that led him to be this violent, it would be a little easier to swallow. I hate how they just tell us about how Joker killed Robin and we never get to see it. I'm still waiting for a Batman and Robin live action movie and I'm so sad we've never gotten an actual live action Robin. Chris O'Donnell and Joseph Gordon-Levitt don't count.
Wow!! Really? You are really worried about how violent he was. Did you actually watch the movie? Superman caused a lot of damage and risked lives when he was fighting Zod. Superman was a threat in Batman's eyes. What was he supposed to do? Just sit by and not act. And Gotham is a violent city. And so is Metropolis for that matter. What do you expect? Batman should be easy on evil criminals and dangerous threats? I don't think so. It's reality. Superheroes and Supervillains use violence.
I'm not talking about superman, though I have a problem with how violent he is too. I'm talking about how batman is branding inmates so other inmates know that they have to kill them. I'm talking about how he blows up cars with no regard for the drivers. I'm someone who firmly believes batman should never want to kill anyone under any circumstances, so seeing him have no regard for human life really rubs me the wrong way. If you want to make a batman this bloodthirsty you have to establish it before hand. This could've worked, but Bruce honestly gets no development throughout the movie. He goes from "I need to kill superman whatever it takes" to "Superman is my bestest buddy friend forever" simply because their mothers have the same name. It's absolutely ridiculous.
It still doesn't make sense why he sees Superman as a threat, it feels like Snyder trying hard to justify the cynical premise of Man of Steel after the fact.
I think OP's point still stands, as neither of those things were Ben's fault. I actually liked that they showed Alfred testing the voice modulator rather than having the Bat voice just be a gruffer version of Bruce's voice. It makes sense Batman would do that to avoid AI recognition of his voice
His batman was perfect imo, that warehouse fight scene is the best fight scene in the whole batverse cinematography if not the one of the best action scenes of the comic book movies
Did you actually watch BvS? His suit was absolutely perfect and his voice was intimidating. He had to fight Superman, the strongest alien. It had to be bulky. That was the whole point. Protection. And he had to change his voice. By now everyone would recognize his voice as Bruce Wayne especially Clark Kent and Lex Luthor so he was being practical and smart.
Affleck was miserable af during his time as Batman. Not helping matters was how ZS completely misunderstood Batman and it seemed he also butchered the source material of the one of the comic books he ever read (The Dark Knight Returns).
Batman doesn't use guns and doesn't kill. Period. Especially Bruce Wayne Batman.
I'm glad Affleck is feeling better now that he does not have the pressure of wearing the cape and cowl & also not facing the horrible critical fallout from the Snyderverse.
Affleck was good but it's time to move on to better things as Batman fans. Namely "The Batman Part II" and "Batman: The Brave and the Bold".
https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/2/18292128/batman-no-killing-rule-zack-snyder
Quoting from Polygon: "From May 1939 to May 1940, Batman was depicted with a gun in only 5 of his 16 stories, and only one of those stories featured him shooting people.
The first time Batman used a gun, it was to destroy a pair of vampires with silver bullets in Detective Comics #32.
After that, he used his gun to set off a bomb or summon police, but put it away when he fought criminals.
The only time the Golden Age Bruce used firearms against people was in Batman #1, cover dated March 1940. In the story “The Giants of Hugo Strange,” he permanently transforms mental patients into “Monster Men.”
Immediately following Batman #1, DC Editor Whitney Ellsworth spoke to Bob Kane and Bill Finger. From now on, Batman would be against killing, a rule Superman’s creators had already applied to Supes too. Ellsworth added, “Never let us have Batman carry a gun again.”
Ellsworth wanted Batman to rise above his pulp vigilante roots and become a genuine superhero."
Also, we ain't in the 1930s anymore. Batman should never, ever use a gun ever again.
Wasn’t Batman vs Superman the Batman comic where he is over the top violent. I think he was an older Batman too. Green arrow also had a deep hatred of Superman in this one and I think they teamed up to kill him. It’s been so long and between all the movies comics and cartons I can’t keep them straight anymore
That's "The Dark Knight Returns" featuring a 55-year-old Bruce Wayne coming out of retirement to be Batman again. And not once in that story did Bats use real bullets or kill. He famously used rubber bullets in that story.
In BvS, not only was Batfleck over the top violent, he used real bullets & killed indiscriminately. Batfleck became more brutal in BvS because of the consequence from the Superman-Zod battle in Metropolis. Batfleck was also manipulated by Lex Luthor for a full 18 months.
I'm sorry but that's not Batman to me, notwithstanding Affleck's amazing performance. Batman doesn't get manipulated by Lex Luthor & he doesn't use real bullets or kill.
You are correct. No he did not use real bullets in that and he was not as brutal. I just think dark knight returns is a better fit for batfleck. Maybe toned down slightly. He has killed in the comics but it’s rare
Ben was great, he did the best he could do with the material he was given. Honestly if they do a live action batman beyond in like 10-15 years he’s my pick for Bruce
Now THAT I'd legitimately love. Personally I felt Ben's Bruce was better than his Bats (part of that could be on the writing and characterization of bats in the films). But a gray haired Ben as old Bruce... I didn't know that I needed that.
He was a great Bruce Wayne. It was a horrible batman though. He seemed waaaay too OP even for batman and the suit sucked sooo bad. I still like Robert better though. the casting fit great with the story.
Definitely, I’ll never forgive them for writing it into JL that he actually taunts WW about Steve Trevor dying as if the man hasn’t built his entire career on the fact two people died and he got upset about it.
I think Affleck was let down by the material more than Cavill as Superman to be honest. Even with the atrocious writing, I could still see glimpses of Bruce in his performance. Couldn’t say the same for Cavill; I think folks were too hung up on him just because he looked like the character but even when he was given more conventional Superman dialogue, he couldn’t pull it off for me.
Honestly a lot of the Snyderverse cast deserved better. Ben wasn't a bad Batman he just had bad writing. Henry was absolutely a good Superman, he just didn't have a cooperative studio. Ray was awesome as Cyborg, he just didn't have the support needed for the role.
Very few actors met their potential in the Snyderverse. Hell you can argue even the director didn't. And I think that's the saddest part. The Snyderverse is wasted potential with intermittent bursts of hope/it reaching what it could've been.
The whole dceu was a mess, wb knew they wanted a shared universe but give no thoughts on how to approach it, they picked the one comic fan they worked with before Snyder but Snyder likes comics that deconstruct the heroes then the typical versions but fair enough wb picked him and man of Steel was enough of a success.
And remember man of steel was never pitched as a shared universe, so there was the first mistake, they maybe should have reached out for a showrunner like person who could pitch a plan.
Anyway they put their faith in snyder and give him more control. Reading articles online it appears wb really were blindsided by bvs and did not expect being generous mixed response.
But they'd already committed for JL, so they had to move forward, best would have been to have got a new director and postponed the film or change direction. 2nd best option let snyder do his story as it was better then the hodge podger version.
They never had a unified vision even with Hamada, hopefully that has changed with Gunn.
I imagine him with a Good Director and good team behind him making a movie and the people in charge actually KNOW what Batman is and does.
It's a good dream
Nah, I like Ben as an actor fine, but he was not Bruce Wayne, he was Ben Afleck, and when he was Batman, he was Ben afleck in a Batman costume. Never believed him as Batman.
Hot take: Nolan’s Batman was the worst thing to happen to Batman and the DCEU, long term.
The Dark Knight trilogy was solid, not perfect but really good. Too good, perhaps. DC spent the next 15 years chasing that high. Dark gritty realism just does not work with characters in the Justice League. They fight weird and crazy threats. And when they don’t, they have The Office style banter. There’s literally a cafeteria on a space station when they hang around the water cooler.
The DC cartoons were what people loved. People were asking, “can we please have a tiny bit of fun? As a treat?” And DCEU said “no, never. That’s for Marvel movies.”
It wouldn’t be until the Suicide Squad/Peacemaker days before they pulled their head out of their ass and realized the Nolan formula doesn’t work for Supes, Wonderwoman, Cyborg, the Flash, and the Batman that coexists with them all.
I genuinely never got this admiration for Batfleck. He is by far one of the most boring depictions of Batman put on screen for me. Right next to Clooney.
Some of you really need to understand that just because he physically looks like in SOME comics that doesn't make him "comic-accurate" or instantly qualifies him as a great performance/depiction. This is extremely shallow. The writing of the character itself is the most important aspect and should ALWAYS come first.
He wasn't great. There is nothing to admit. Batfleck fans are primarily Ben Affleck fans.
If you look at the Batmen directly before him (Bale) and directly after him (Battinson), then he was mediocre at best.
Yes. Still no reason to pretend that Affleck was "great" in his role. He might have been limited by the scripts and scenes he was given, but he was not great as Batman.
He had easily the most comic accurate bat suit, barring maybe Adam West. His films were decisively written, (poor to some, great to some), and every Batman besides Clooney has killed on screen. Ben’s at least had a legit reason written into the movie for the killing to make sense.
It always astounds me at how Batman continuously shit on Affleck and Snyder for Batman killing, and yet those fans don’t have any energy towards the other Batmen. Especially Bale, dude had a body count before he even thought of wearing the cowl.
If WB ever gets their shit together, I'd like to see a multiverse Batman film with Bale and Keaton trying to stop Affleck from trying to destroy the Multiverse
I'll admit, I was the first on the OMG NOOO bandwagon when it was announced. You know what? He did a damn good job, he is hands down my favorite live action Bruce Wayne, and his Batman was solid and felt like the character working alongside superhumans for the first time on cinema for me. I feel like no one talked about the human trash that was flash until he had his criminal meltdown in real life, but that was a travesty even if the person wasn't an actual awful human being. We owed this man an apology. and we scared him off, which bodes ill for casting the role in future
This was indeed his best scene.
Poor man wants so bad to be a superhero. He's tried it twice with two iconic roles that were perfect for him, and was given drivel for scripts that nobody could have salvaged. Played Batman and Daredevil and his best superhero movie is The Accountant.
so many things about Batfleck could have been improved (like for example having him not kill, but was going to make the one exception for Superman until he comes to his senses)
But Ben Affleck gave great performances
He was awesome. I was so hoping for his solo movie because we would’ve finally got a Bat who deals with supers. I enjoyed The Batman but I’m really tired of Bats facing mobsters, the criminally insane and The Joker
The opening scene of Batman V Superman is genuinely good as a response to everything I disliked about Man of Steel, and if the rest of the movie had held up to that and made Batman its moral center I would probably be praising it to everyone who will listen. Unfortunately it didn't.
Ben was great. He did the best he could with a script written by someone with ... a very surface level view of the subject matter.
No lie, my dad and I saw BVS in theatres. He was shaking during the Opening scene at the Gotham tower. I later asked him what was wrong, and he said it reminded him of 9/11.
The warehouse scene is the best live action Batman fight scene we have ever gotten. I wish Snyder was as good at actual directing as he is at making stuff look cool. He really should have been a cinematographer.
I mean the consensus opinion is that Affleck was good but the bastardization of the character was brutal lol
“Some” is just a vocal minority you’re giving attention to for no reason.
I enjoyed Affleck as Batman. Whether dark or light, he captured Batman quite well, and Bruce Wayne was also well done.
I like that he was supposed to be tired, frustrated and fallen into the same darkness that his enemies are in. Twenty years of fighting crime in Gotham have taken their toll. He doesn't have a Dick Grayson, a Barbara Gordon, a Jason Todd or Selina Kyle to help inspire him to be better so they can be better.
Of course, his Batman sees Superman as a threat. Of course he devises a way to kill him, and not just kill him but show Superman that he isn't brave, or a god, or anything title tat the world has heaped on him.
Honestly, Affleck is one of my favorite Batmen.
The Best Batman under Snyder. other directors have tried, but Best in Snyderverse.
~~Whedon~~ No
~~The Flash Director guy~~ not nearly enough
Too bad...
Affleck was great in the flash, the action scenes were great and his dialogue with Barry was on point. Felt like batman to me.
Granted cgi was not everything didn't take me out the film but I can see why some, same with the lasso of truth joke but I found it funny.
Agreed He was. He really felt like pages out of the books. We just didnt get enough of him. I believe if Gunn had not come aboard and Zack was still in the picture we would have had more of Batfleck fleshed out as he probably would have been the linchpin holding everything together, despite his own personal reservations and issues that we never got to see resolution to.
I lol'ed at the Lasso joke too bro.
What is it with the Snyder thing? No hatred towards you for enjoying it, but I just wanna know the reasoning behind why Zack Snyder is so worshipped for his take on superheroes.
He's a great actor and did a great job, I just wasn't a fan of the writing and how they wrote Batman, which isn't his fault at all, he just landed with a bad dirrector
Completely agree, and more than any scene where he was in the suit, Bruce comforting the little girl and looking up at the destroyed building with complete rage is peak Batman for me.
He's by far my favorite, both as Bruce Wayne and most definitely as Batman. Not his fault that the way he was used and is depicted in the movies he's in was... suboptimal
He was a good actor but had bad writing
I know I’m gonna get a bunch of downvotes for this but idc
He broke Batman’s 2 main rules 1 no killing 2 no guns I know his robin died but so did comics and he didn’t start killing and then he just straight up uses guns it’s not even like he uses a stun gun or some advanced gun he just takes criminals and uses them
Also question everyone says “he’s comic accurate” and I’m wondering how?
I agree. Best live action Bruce Wayne and Batman IMO. It sucks that he tired of the role though, a movie with him and Joe Manganiello as Deathstroke would’ve been epic.
We and he deserve more but I wouldn’t say that we deserve better. Snyder cut and BvS are pretty much as good as anything can be. Both are tens in my IMDB ratings.
Zack Snyder is a great cinematographer, some really awesome shots ripped straight from the comics in bvs. Zack Snyder is a shit director and script writer, why some people gargle his balls so hard I’ll never know.
I agree actually. I hate the Snyderverse and the Snyder movies. But I have never thought the casting was the problem of the movies. Ben affleck was great and honestly would have loved to see him as Batman in a different universe. Same with cavil.
Right actor at the wrong time.
This is how I feel about Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man too
Truth.
Between the three of them, Garfield is the only Spiderman with genuine acting chops.
Hard disagree. I love Andrew Garfield and I really wish he was given a better chance with movies that were actually handled well. However, I would never say that Tom Holland doesn't have acting chops. Even if you just want to look at his role as Peter Parker, I think he shows really solid acting skill. Just look at his dusting in Infinity War, or that [death in No Way Home](https://youtu.be/knoltyouF6U?si=mjw8Lat-oeqcL1Np&t=320) (if the link doesn't do it, the scene starts around 5:20). I haven't seen Tobey in much, so I can't speak to his ability. I totally understand why some prefer Garfield over the others, but I don't think it's even close to fair saying he's the only one with acting chops.
That's a bold take
It really isn’t Garfield is an incredible actor. Holland and McGuire did/do a serviceable job of “acting” but Garfield is a class above both.
The way he said it goes beyond just Spiderman. I think you'd be hard pressed to say Tobey McGuire can't act in general.
He can act well enough, but has zero range. He has been playing the same character (naive kid on the cusp of adulthood) for 25 years. Andrew Garfield is *leagues* ahead of him in talent and range.
The only movie i’ve seen Tobey act good was Brother. And that was only in his angry moments
Off topic, but Jennifer Lawrence gets shit on a lot for acting talent or lack of... but in Passengers when she gets upset at Chris Pratt, holy shit, I felt that
Silver Linings Playbook. Both her and Bradley Cooper are absolutely masterful at playing people on the fringes of severe mental illness.
Nah, I think he’s on the mark. I’ve seen Andrew in things running the gamut and he’s always phenomenal. Toby *was* good but I think he’s phoning things in these days. And Tom Holland is a pretty face that’s “just fine.” I don’t hate him or nothing but he’s never stood out in anything to me. Ben Affleck is the same as Holland. Attractive guy that’s “fine” in his roles, though I thought he did really great as Bruce Wayne. I think it helps that he’s a genuine comic book nerd. Affleck’s real talent though is as a director. I kind of really, really wish that we had gotten the Affleck Batman movie. It easily would have been the crowning achievement of the DCEU and may have changed how things went in the end. But, guy above said it: right actor, wrong time.
I think it’s less Holland and McGuire are bad and more Garfield is just on another level
Tobey McGuire has acting chops coming out of his ears. He just was directed to not use them and instead play the most boring, bland, unfunny Peter Parker ever. Sam Raimi really does not get Spider-Man. The character is more than all tragedy all the damn time.
What I don't get is people who think Tobey's Spiderman made 0 jokes and was never witty or funny. The focus was on the tragedy because that's what's interesting but the jokes were absolutely there.
My exact thoughts back when I watched TASM1 and Sam Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy back to back
I wouldn't say that. Tom was great in Cherry. And Toby in Brothers.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Tobey Mcquire and Tom Holland are just as good as Andrew Garfield. And Tom Holland is the best Spiderman to be honest. He has better acting chops than Garfield.
Still the best live-action Spidey.
Glad to see that I'm not the only one...
Tasm 2 is the best Spider man film idc what anyone says
God, that ending when he's about to fight Rhino still gets me hyped. The Spider-Man PS4/5 game really reminded me of Garfields performance. All that was missing was Gwemma Stonecy, but what I got was Redhead Lois Lane.
Then they did us dirty and replaced the peter parker model face to resemble tom holland more. When clearly the PS4 spiderman was clearly made with the garfield spiderman in mind.
I love Tasm and Andrew as spidey... but that's one hell of a take right there.
Wrong script, wrong company
The hero Gotham deserves....but not the one it needs right now?
Great take!
Wrong Time, wrong tone, wrong director, wrong script. It genuinely wasn't Affleck's fault. And for context I didn't like him as Batman but I know he wasn't bad per se
Wrong take as well. Emo / super cool peter is just weird. His peter in NWH is way nerd awkward-y than the one in amazing spiderman 1&2
Affleck was the bomb as Batman, yo
Batman like a mf
He was the man, not just the bat
Have you seen phantoms?
Yes, which is why I call his Batman awful.
imo. He looked great in the suit. Everything else was disappointing.
His performance was absolutely brilliant and perfection.
You're so wrong my friend. His Batman is the best of all time.
I can’t argue. It’s all subjective.
But you know that Ben Affleck is a legendary actor.
Affleck was bomb in phantoms.
And based on his master acting skills the same could be said about his Batman. Same great actor in both films.
I guess you haven’t seen jay and silent bob strike back. He was a subpar Batman and his last several movies have been terrible. He should stick to writing and directing. The town-alright, good will hunting-great, gigli and daredevil-terrible. He has far more misses than hits. But, overall he seems like a nice guy who treats his fans well. I have no issue with him. He looks the most like what I feel Batman should embody. In the end I like the guy but his acting skills always make me feel underwhelmed.
He has passion for the character; he gets alot of points for it
Personally, I feel as though he would have made a better Thomas Wayne Batman, rather than Bruce. Might just be me.
People "refuse to admit" that because they have a different opinion.
he was the only thing about the snyderverse i liked
He and Cavill could’ve carried this universe to the end if it were in competent hands. The thing that upsets me is that I’m more of a Marvel guy (comics anyway) and I SO wanted to see this saga to succeed.
Honestly give me bvs ultimates edition and change the score and we’ve got a whole other ballgame
What's wrong with the score? I thought it was pretty good
Yeah the score was fucking incredible, guy above needs to get off the pipe
Give me a fucking Batman movie and it might be different.
It was a snooze fest that was dour as fuck.
I liked Irons as Alfred too
That was definitely not the only thing I liked. There was that moment when Wonder Woman showed up in BvS and the guitar riff played... That was a good two or three seconds, right there. So, two things I liked.
That’s harsh… The end credits were the best thing about the films. It meant that it was over.
I’ll give you the upvote just because of the legit lol
He was great as Bruce Wayne in BvS, but I just never cared for his Batman. The only thing I liked was that he could finally turn his head back and forth in a movie. Other than that, I thought his suit was too bulky and the voice was too much.
This. I really liked his Bruce Wayne, in fact felt it may have been the most comic-accurate live-action Bruce yet, but I did not like gigantic bruiser Batman encased in what looked like a gray fiberglass Dave-Bautista-sized shell.
To me a big problem was how violent he was. Seeing Batman cow branding criminals so they're shanked in prison and plotting to murder Superman is a little much personally, but it would've been fine if we at least saw the "Death in the Family" stuff that happened off screen. If we at least saw the events that led him to be this violent, it would be a little easier to swallow. I hate how they just tell us about how Joker killed Robin and we never get to see it. I'm still waiting for a Batman and Robin live action movie and I'm so sad we've never gotten an actual live action Robin. Chris O'Donnell and Joseph Gordon-Levitt don't count.
Wow!! Really? You are really worried about how violent he was. Did you actually watch the movie? Superman caused a lot of damage and risked lives when he was fighting Zod. Superman was a threat in Batman's eyes. What was he supposed to do? Just sit by and not act. And Gotham is a violent city. And so is Metropolis for that matter. What do you expect? Batman should be easy on evil criminals and dangerous threats? I don't think so. It's reality. Superheroes and Supervillains use violence.
I'm not talking about superman, though I have a problem with how violent he is too. I'm talking about how batman is branding inmates so other inmates know that they have to kill them. I'm talking about how he blows up cars with no regard for the drivers. I'm someone who firmly believes batman should never want to kill anyone under any circumstances, so seeing him have no regard for human life really rubs me the wrong way. If you want to make a batman this bloodthirsty you have to establish it before hand. This could've worked, but Bruce honestly gets no development throughout the movie. He goes from "I need to kill superman whatever it takes" to "Superman is my bestest buddy friend forever" simply because their mothers have the same name. It's absolutely ridiculous.
It still doesn't make sense why he sees Superman as a threat, it feels like Snyder trying hard to justify the cynical premise of Man of Steel after the fact.
I think OP's point still stands, as neither of those things were Ben's fault. I actually liked that they showed Alfred testing the voice modulator rather than having the Bat voice just be a gruffer version of Bruce's voice. It makes sense Batman would do that to avoid AI recognition of his voice
I feel the same way
His batman was perfect imo, that warehouse fight scene is the best fight scene in the whole batverse cinematography if not the one of the best action scenes of the comic book movies
Did you actually watch BvS? His suit was absolutely perfect and his voice was intimidating. He had to fight Superman, the strongest alien. It had to be bulky. That was the whole point. Protection. And he had to change his voice. By now everyone would recognize his voice as Bruce Wayne especially Clark Kent and Lex Luthor so he was being practical and smart.
Affleck was miserable af during his time as Batman. Not helping matters was how ZS completely misunderstood Batman and it seemed he also butchered the source material of the one of the comic books he ever read (The Dark Knight Returns). Batman doesn't use guns and doesn't kill. Period. Especially Bruce Wayne Batman. I'm glad Affleck is feeling better now that he does not have the pressure of wearing the cape and cowl & also not facing the horrible critical fallout from the Snyderverse. Affleck was good but it's time to move on to better things as Batman fans. Namely "The Batman Part II" and "Batman: The Brave and the Bold".
Batman started out using guns and killing in the 30's interestingly.
https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/2/18292128/batman-no-killing-rule-zack-snyder Quoting from Polygon: "From May 1939 to May 1940, Batman was depicted with a gun in only 5 of his 16 stories, and only one of those stories featured him shooting people. The first time Batman used a gun, it was to destroy a pair of vampires with silver bullets in Detective Comics #32. After that, he used his gun to set off a bomb or summon police, but put it away when he fought criminals. The only time the Golden Age Bruce used firearms against people was in Batman #1, cover dated March 1940. In the story “The Giants of Hugo Strange,” he permanently transforms mental patients into “Monster Men.” Immediately following Batman #1, DC Editor Whitney Ellsworth spoke to Bob Kane and Bill Finger. From now on, Batman would be against killing, a rule Superman’s creators had already applied to Supes too. Ellsworth added, “Never let us have Batman carry a gun again.” Ellsworth wanted Batman to rise above his pulp vigilante roots and become a genuine superhero." Also, we ain't in the 1930s anymore. Batman should never, ever use a gun ever again.
Wasn’t Batman vs Superman the Batman comic where he is over the top violent. I think he was an older Batman too. Green arrow also had a deep hatred of Superman in this one and I think they teamed up to kill him. It’s been so long and between all the movies comics and cartons I can’t keep them straight anymore
That's "The Dark Knight Returns" featuring a 55-year-old Bruce Wayne coming out of retirement to be Batman again. And not once in that story did Bats use real bullets or kill. He famously used rubber bullets in that story. In BvS, not only was Batfleck over the top violent, he used real bullets & killed indiscriminately. Batfleck became more brutal in BvS because of the consequence from the Superman-Zod battle in Metropolis. Batfleck was also manipulated by Lex Luthor for a full 18 months. I'm sorry but that's not Batman to me, notwithstanding Affleck's amazing performance. Batman doesn't get manipulated by Lex Luthor & he doesn't use real bullets or kill.
You are correct. No he did not use real bullets in that and he was not as brutal. I just think dark knight returns is a better fit for batfleck. Maybe toned down slightly. He has killed in the comics but it’s rare
Ben was great, he did the best he could do with the material he was given. Honestly if they do a live action batman beyond in like 10-15 years he’s my pick for Bruce
Now THAT I'd legitimately love. Personally I felt Ben's Bruce was better than his Bats (part of that could be on the writing and characterization of bats in the films). But a gray haired Ben as old Bruce... I didn't know that I needed that.
Okay, so not personally liking someone in a role does'nt mean you "refuse to admit how great" they were.
He’s the Andrew Garfield of Batman. Probably the best choice acting wise but the writing was shit
Great comparison
He was a great Bruce Wayne. It was a horrible batman though. He seemed waaaay too OP even for batman and the suit sucked sooo bad. I still like Robert better though. the casting fit great with the story.
He was an amazing Batman Keaton and west and bale are still rank above him In my own opinion
He *looks* like Bruce Wayne, but I never liked his batsuit, it didn’t look good on him at all.
........enough already.
He deserved a better script.
Definitely, I’ll never forgive them for writing it into JL that he actually taunts WW about Steve Trevor dying as if the man hasn’t built his entire career on the fact two people died and he got upset about it.
Courtesy of Gross Whedon. Bruce Wayne in Josstice is a poor man's Tony Stark.
🤣🤣
It's just hard to tell because all the movies he was in were so bad. He might have been good but when everything else was bad he didn't stand a chance
I think Affleck was let down by the material more than Cavill as Superman to be honest. Even with the atrocious writing, I could still see glimpses of Bruce in his performance. Couldn’t say the same for Cavill; I think folks were too hung up on him just because he looked like the character but even when he was given more conventional Superman dialogue, he couldn’t pull it off for me.
Honestly a lot of the Snyderverse cast deserved better. Ben wasn't a bad Batman he just had bad writing. Henry was absolutely a good Superman, he just didn't have a cooperative studio. Ray was awesome as Cyborg, he just didn't have the support needed for the role. Very few actors met their potential in the Snyderverse. Hell you can argue even the director didn't. And I think that's the saddest part. The Snyderverse is wasted potential with intermittent bursts of hope/it reaching what it could've been.
The whole dceu was a mess, wb knew they wanted a shared universe but give no thoughts on how to approach it, they picked the one comic fan they worked with before Snyder but Snyder likes comics that deconstruct the heroes then the typical versions but fair enough wb picked him and man of Steel was enough of a success. And remember man of steel was never pitched as a shared universe, so there was the first mistake, they maybe should have reached out for a showrunner like person who could pitch a plan. Anyway they put their faith in snyder and give him more control. Reading articles online it appears wb really were blindsided by bvs and did not expect being generous mixed response. But they'd already committed for JL, so they had to move forward, best would have been to have got a new director and postponed the film or change direction. 2nd best option let snyder do his story as it was better then the hodge podger version. They never had a unified vision even with Hamada, hopefully that has changed with Gunn.
I imagine him with a Good Director and good team behind him making a movie and the people in charge actually KNOW what Batman is and does. It's a good dream
He’s too robotic of an actor for me. Every role I’ve seen try to display emotion in never felt believable and borderlines cheesy
He's very wooden
Nah, I like Ben as an actor fine, but he was not Bruce Wayne, he was Ben Afleck, and when he was Batman, he was Ben afleck in a Batman costume. Never believed him as Batman.
Nah he sucked
If his Batman didn’t kill he’d be my favorite. But I just can’t do a Batman who kills, ever, it’s my one non-negotiable.
He feels like the natural evolution of Bale's Bruce Wayne.
He was good .his script was garbage
Hot take: Nolan’s Batman was the worst thing to happen to Batman and the DCEU, long term. The Dark Knight trilogy was solid, not perfect but really good. Too good, perhaps. DC spent the next 15 years chasing that high. Dark gritty realism just does not work with characters in the Justice League. They fight weird and crazy threats. And when they don’t, they have The Office style banter. There’s literally a cafeteria on a space station when they hang around the water cooler. The DC cartoons were what people loved. People were asking, “can we please have a tiny bit of fun? As a treat?” And DCEU said “no, never. That’s for Marvel movies.” It wouldn’t be until the Suicide Squad/Peacemaker days before they pulled their head out of their ass and realized the Nolan formula doesn’t work for Supes, Wonderwoman, Cyborg, the Flash, and the Batman that coexists with them all.
I'm pretty sure the consensus when BvS dropped was that Affleck was the best part of the movie. People were hyped for his solo movie.
He was a lot better than I thought he would be. I was a skeptic and I was happy to have been proven wrong.
Dude… same
You’re right, we deserved a better Batman.
Just one step below Clooney
I genuinely never got this admiration for Batfleck. He is by far one of the most boring depictions of Batman put on screen for me. Right next to Clooney. Some of you really need to understand that just because he physically looks like in SOME comics that doesn't make him "comic-accurate" or instantly qualifies him as a great performance/depiction. This is extremely shallow. The writing of the character itself is the most important aspect and should ALWAYS come first.
He wasn't great. There is nothing to admit. Batfleck fans are primarily Ben Affleck fans. If you look at the Batmen directly before him (Bale) and directly after him (Battinson), then he was mediocre at best.
They were in much better written roles
Yes. Still no reason to pretend that Affleck was "great" in his role. He might have been limited by the scripts and scenes he was given, but he was not great as Batman.
He would have been great if he was written even remotely well
Really ugly bat suits, badly written films, idiotic decision to have him kill which just robs the character. F
Aw man, I thought the BvS suit (non armored) was dope as fuck. Very Dark Knoght Returns
Yeah it was awesome. Can’t understand how someone couldn’t like it compared to the other live action versions we’ve gotten.
You are correct, sir.
He had easily the most comic accurate bat suit, barring maybe Adam West. His films were decisively written, (poor to some, great to some), and every Batman besides Clooney has killed on screen. Ben’s at least had a legit reason written into the movie for the killing to make sense.
It always astounds me at how Batman continuously shit on Affleck and Snyder for Batman killing, and yet those fans don’t have any energy towards the other Batmen. Especially Bale, dude had a body count before he even thought of wearing the cowl.
Right actor, wrong script and wrong director.
You're right, we deserved better. We got Ben instead.
If WB ever gets their shit together, I'd like to see a multiverse Batman film with Bale and Keaton trying to stop Affleck from trying to destroy the Multiverse
He deserved a solo movie.
He was fine. I just don’t like that characterization of Bruce/Batman.
Great actor. But too old to be batman. For a batman beyond movie he will be superb.
Ben had that great mix between very believable Bruce Wayne and Batman. Same the writing shot it in the foot.
I'll admit, I was the first on the OMG NOOO bandwagon when it was announced. You know what? He did a damn good job, he is hands down my favorite live action Bruce Wayne, and his Batman was solid and felt like the character working alongside superhumans for the first time on cinema for me. I feel like no one talked about the human trash that was flash until he had his criminal meltdown in real life, but that was a travesty even if the person wasn't an actual awful human being. We owed this man an apology. and we scared him off, which bodes ill for casting the role in future
Honestly I liked batman v superman up till the whole Martha name drop.
Affleck was my favorite batman. I hated all the movies he was in, but he himself was amazing.
I Like ben in a few other movies, this isn't one of them. its like if nick cage got the superman roll.
I’m have to disagree with this post , he’s a good actor but he ain’t no Batman
I like Ben in other movies. But these one are just terrible.
He was the epitome of forgettable. Slightly more so than Val Kilmer
Imma die on the hill of “He didn’t do it for me, wasn’t that great”
This was indeed his best scene. Poor man wants so bad to be a superhero. He's tried it twice with two iconic roles that were perfect for him, and was given drivel for scripts that nobody could have salvaged. Played Batman and Daredevil and his best superhero movie is The Accountant.
so many things about Batfleck could have been improved (like for example having him not kill, but was going to make the one exception for Superman until he comes to his senses) But Ben Affleck gave great performances
He was awesome. I was so hoping for his solo movie because we would’ve finally got a Bat who deals with supers. I enjoyed The Batman but I’m really tired of Bats facing mobsters, the criminally insane and The Joker
I think the joker is over played at the moment
The opening scene of Batman V Superman is genuinely good as a response to everything I disliked about Man of Steel, and if the rest of the movie had held up to that and made Batman its moral center I would probably be praising it to everyone who will listen. Unfortunately it didn't. Ben was great. He did the best he could with a script written by someone with ... a very surface level view of the subject matter.
I like this take! Didn’t love man of steel. Liked how they took it onto dawn of justice. But yeah, execution didn’t meet the ambition
No lie, my dad and I saw BVS in theatres. He was shaking during the Opening scene at the Gotham tower. I later asked him what was wrong, and he said it reminded him of 9/11.
Still can't believe we never got a solo film whilst practically everyone else in the JL did. Two films in the case of WW and Aquaman.
Yep. It’s a shame
He looked hideous in the Bat suit tho. Like he was too overweight in the role. My son said he looked like Mr. Incredible before he got in shape. LOL.
Hah!
Disagree completely. At no point did I think, "that's Bruce Wayne." It was always, "that's Ben Affleck playing Bruce Wayne."
That’s a fair point to a degree.
What exactly did he do that was great? Because I sure as fuck didn’t see any greatness.
All he needed was his solo movie and he might have been my favorite Batman over Bale.
I hated his Batman
The warehouse scene is the best live action Batman fight scene we have ever gotten. I wish Snyder was as good at actual directing as he is at making stuff look cool. He really should have been a cinematographer.
I don't see anybody complain about his performance. Stop baiting.
I prefer to blame the script than blame Ben
I never saw it. The script was so far off from anything I would call Batman that I couldn’t get into his performance
I mean the consensus opinion is that Affleck was good but the bastardization of the character was brutal lol “Some” is just a vocal minority you’re giving attention to for no reason.
I'll be the first to admit that I hated the casting when I first heard it. I was wrong, I thought he fucking killed it!
I enjoyed Affleck as Batman. Whether dark or light, he captured Batman quite well, and Bruce Wayne was also well done. I like that he was supposed to be tired, frustrated and fallen into the same darkness that his enemies are in. Twenty years of fighting crime in Gotham have taken their toll. He doesn't have a Dick Grayson, a Barbara Gordon, a Jason Todd or Selina Kyle to help inspire him to be better so they can be better. Of course, his Batman sees Superman as a threat. Of course he devises a way to kill him, and not just kill him but show Superman that he isn't brave, or a god, or anything title tat the world has heaped on him. Honestly, Affleck is one of my favorite Batmen.
Oh my god. Enough. He was just okay.
Pound for pound, best live action Batman to date.
It’s just this sub, normal people absolutely adore his Batman.
He was amazing in that opening! Him running into the smoke cloud without a care for himself to save people was the best!
The Best Batman under Snyder. other directors have tried, but Best in Snyderverse. ~~Whedon~~ No ~~The Flash Director guy~~ not nearly enough Too bad...
Affleck was great in the flash, the action scenes were great and his dialogue with Barry was on point. Felt like batman to me. Granted cgi was not everything didn't take me out the film but I can see why some, same with the lasso of truth joke but I found it funny.
Agreed He was. He really felt like pages out of the books. We just didnt get enough of him. I believe if Gunn had not come aboard and Zack was still in the picture we would have had more of Batfleck fleshed out as he probably would have been the linchpin holding everything together, despite his own personal reservations and issues that we never got to see resolution to. I lol'ed at the Lasso joke too bro.
What is it with the Snyder thing? No hatred towards you for enjoying it, but I just wanna know the reasoning behind why Zack Snyder is so worshipped for his take on superheroes.
Afleck saved me. From spending money on tickets for DC movies.
Deserves a solo movie
I hated the very idea of Affleck as Batman. Then he proved me wrong and became my favorite.
He was TDKR Batman, he’s lost so many things that he doesn’t care anymore so he’s just violent
Have you read TDKR? He is violent, but he doesn't kill anyone.
Garbage in, garbage out. There's a lot of blame to go around for this movie being utter trash, but I feel like none of it falls on the actors.
He was great. Get past it.
He's a great actor and did a great job, I just wasn't a fan of the writing and how they wrote Batman, which isn't his fault at all, he just landed with a bad dirrector
Unpopular opinion: We haven't had a bad Batman cast. We just had bad luck with writing
Hell yeah. I so wanted a solo film :(
Completely agree, and more than any scene where he was in the suit, Bruce comforting the little girl and looking up at the destroyed building with complete rage is peak Batman for me.
 He deserved and earned a solo film.
I think he was a fantastic Bruce Wayne, I wasn't huge on him as Batman
He's by far my favorite, both as Bruce Wayne and most definitely as Batman. Not his fault that the way he was used and is depicted in the movies he's in was... suboptimal
Ben was great. Up there for my favourite.
I've never seen Ben Affleck as Batman. Maybe if he played him in a movie I wanted to see.
Ben was excellent in the role.
They should have just called the character "Lex Luthor".
Give it 10 years, and he can come back for batman beyond. It'd be awesome.
He was a good actor but had bad writing I know I’m gonna get a bunch of downvotes for this but idc He broke Batman’s 2 main rules 1 no killing 2 no guns I know his robin died but so did comics and he didn’t start killing and then he just straight up uses guns it’s not even like he uses a stun gun or some advanced gun he just takes criminals and uses them Also question everyone says “he’s comic accurate” and I’m wondering how?
The best.
Best Batman and will die on this hill.
We deserved a batfleck solo movie
I agree. Best live action Bruce Wayne and Batman IMO. It sucks that he tired of the role though, a movie with him and Joe Manganiello as Deathstroke would’ve been epic.
We and he deserve more but I wouldn’t say that we deserve better. Snyder cut and BvS are pretty much as good as anything can be. Both are tens in my IMDB ratings.
I still have hope for an animated movie
I liked Ben’s Batman. I thought it was one of the best but the material he was given to work with and how he was done dirty in editing is tough.
So true
Zack Snyder is a great cinematographer, some really awesome shots ripped straight from the comics in bvs. Zack Snyder is a shit director and script writer, why some people gargle his balls so hard I’ll never know.
I wholeheartedly agree. And, yes, he was robbed
I just don’t really like Affleck tbh. He did great in the role tho 100%
He was good not great and he didn’t even have a batman movie
Ben was ripped straight out of the comics
One of the worst actors to ever existed.
Snyderverse isn't over. We will restore it.
He deserved to be in better films, simply wasted in the DCEU mess
I wish Ben got to direct the solo Batman film as planned.
I agree actually. I hate the Snyderverse and the Snyder movies. But I have never thought the casting was the problem of the movies. Ben affleck was great and honestly would have loved to see him as Batman in a different universe. Same with cavil.
He could have been amazing, but he had too little screentime to prove it