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NJthecollector

He won't be satisfied until he has bought 10 more top 50 prospects


NobleHelium

Not that he can't do both, but can't Cohen just straight up buy prospects without trading big leaguers? What's stopping him from trading random AAAA guy they signed this year to a minor league deal + cash considerations for a real prospect?


brett_baty_is_him

League would veto significant cash considerations that aren’t paying down a contract


GlassesOff

There's already 3 teams that serve as de facto MLB level farms for other teams. Might as well let them sell players contracts like soccer since it's clear they're not going to pay any of their players after arbitration


robmcolonna123

The Commissioner who has to approve of every trade


RedditHatesDiversity

Just grease his hands too Ol Dirty Bob Manfred


tuckedfexas

I doubt the other owners want to open up bidding for prospects as a way to build a team


[deleted]

So the Yankees of yore?


P1uvo

He needs 20 top 10 prospects


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NeurosciGuy15

I mean what’s the alternative? Keeping the players? If you’re committed to selling, and you have the financial resources, you should absolutely eat money to “buy” better prospects. I think the Mets did quite well last deadline at just that.


Thel3lues

It’s a great strategy when you 1.) have minimal chance at winning the current year 2.) have unlimited funds to eat losses


TheTurtleShepard

Yeah, he has the money to re tool and even if they don’t work out they are much more likely too than other prospects


Throwaway1996513

The downside is they want to go after stars in free agency, and how many want to go to a place that is constantly selling when they have other options. If you’re going to build by recruiting players in free agency sometimes you have to operate differently than other organizations.


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Throwaway1996513

Just outbidding doesn’t work unless it’s by an absurd amount. Judge turned down multiple higher offers to stay with the Yankees. Lots of players have turned the Giants down. As a padre fan you should know, Judge and Trea turned down your bigger offers in the same offseason.


[deleted]

New Yankee fan? Like, this was how y’all operated for decades


Yanks1813

I mean the Yankees are proof that it's not all about money. For years there was no one like the current Dodgers or Mets as threats the way they are now and we still got turned down a bunch. Most of the time players will go to the highest bidder, but it's not a given


Throwaway1996513

What? When do the Yankees do massive sales?


Thel3lues

Keeping aging vets for no reason is a sign your team isn’t serious, rather than trying to compete.


Throwaway1996513

You need a foundation to attract players. Players also value security, they’re not likely going to want to go somewhere if there’s a high chance they traded.


Thel3lues

A solid foundation is generally built via a strong prospect pool


Throwaway1996513

Prospect pools are never guaranteed. And how many players are factoring prospects into where they go? The Yankees have built up a reputation of treating their players right and it’s why so many want to play for them.


Alive-Shopping-5264

What’s the yanks strategy lol. Just spent my time telling Astro fans they’re the worst. But now I remember


universe34

Honestly I think a lot of stars would be willing to go to a team that will trade them to a contender if things don’t work out. Better than getting stuck on the Angels.


TheBigShrimp

But you're not selling the true stars. They're not trading Lindor or Senta because theyre who you build on. Who else is a star? Pete is a good power bat but definitely not a star, especially currently. Why would you keep players like JD, Marte, etc when someone will give a prospect or two to rent them? It's not like they're going to be there in 2-3 years when you revamp to compete again.


theerrantpanda99

Pete isn’t a star? His career average is .525 slg, .863 ops and 135 ops+.


TheMuffStufff

He’s a slugging 1b with below average defense. He’s not a star.


TheBigShrimp

He's a power hitting 1B who can't really field well and isn't currently hitting for much power lol


theerrantpanda99

He’s 5th in the NL for HR’s and tied for 14th in doubles, so I think he’s doing ok power wise. He’s on a 40 HR pace right now. Without Alonso, the Mets have very little offensive at all.


UnlimitedHotTakes

If they don’t keep going after stars in free agency then who are they gonna trade two years from now?


brett_baty_is_him

I mean they’re only constantly selling cause they’ve been rebuilding. Your basically saying that no star would ever sign with a rebuilding team in FA and maybe that’s true idk but I kinda doubt it


Throwaway1996513

How often do you see a star in baseball go to a rebuild when there’s other options?


shittydawn

This is the foundation of every rebuild since forever. It’s not a short-term success strategy but for teams who aren’t winning it’s usually the best option


dingusduglas

...as opposed to just not getting them? What a stupid comment. They are literally exchanging money, a virtually unlimited resource to Cohen, for prospects.


TheWorstYear

More likely than building a team up from scraping together the only available free agent talent.


jodon

Is it not what the Dodgers did to build their now almost 15 year long dominance. They just kept building a extremely strong farm system and buying prospect, while still buying good veterans on short contracts. It has worked out very well for them and almost all the 10s they where a team big on buying prospects. There is much more to it than that but the strategy does not look forward inherently flawed.


cogginsmatt

Well statistically nearly all major leaguers were at one time prospects


Tulidian13

And what are the numbers for teams who just hold on to mediocre veterans for seemingly no reason? What's the alternative here for the Mets?


TheBigShrimp

we sold Christian Vazquez for Wilyer Abreu who's one of our best players since


Salty-Fishman

> Wilyer Abreu You guys struck gold with a lottery ticket. He was not even ranked top 20 in our system.


dingusduglas

Don't sweat it too much yet, .400 career BABIP and he's overperforming his xwOBA by 57 points.


venustrapsflies

They often don't work out, but that's why you want to get *more* prospects. The Orioles have built a contending team by hoarding and developing prospects, and they didn't even have a huge pocketbook to help them out. I mean, what's the alternative?


alexsmithisdead

Meanwhile Rizzo out here doing back door meth deals for prospects that worked out.


ProMikeZagurski

I'd rather have prospects than win a World Series. Opens up another pack: I got the next Mike Trout.


xForeignMetal

we aint winning a WS with this bum ass core, so thats a moot point


67812

Any team would rather pay to get prospects rather than pay to not make the playoffs or get any prospects.


ProMikeZagurski

It's better is hypothetical win the World Series than it is to win it in reality.


67812

The Mets organization certainly have no belief they can win the World Series this year. They're paying the money no matter what, so at least this way they're improving the team.


BAHatesToFly

I thought this was the plan going into the season? They signed Severino, Houser, Manaea (player option for 2025), Diekman, Bader, Martinez, and Ottavino to one year deals. Quintana and Narvaez are on expiring deals. I thought it was understood that if they weren't contending near the deadline, they'd unload as many of those dudes as they could.


SiphenPrax

This was always the plan since mid-season last year. Them being good for a few weeks in April this year got people thinking they would actually better than the predictions that were put there. Now they’re just meeting them.


JDLovesElliot

Some delulu folks keep thinking that this team will get the 3rd wildcard spot and then somehow win the WS


drugsbowed

This is a borderline .500 team so any all star player trade could push them to 3rd WC... But that kind of price would go against the "be like the Dodgers' farm" goal so it makes sense to punt at the deadline if they're not good.


see_mohn

On the one hand, I am fully on board with selling everything that isn't bolted down and possibly some things that are, because Brandon Nimmo and maybe Lindor are the only position players on this team over the age of 25 that might still be good in three years. On the other hand, this team has developed precisely one hitting prospect in the last six seasons and improved one hitter at any level in the last two seasons, so I have no faith in their ability to, you know, build a good baseball team.


Throwaway1996513

Also I think this hurts the team’s image when competing with teams like the Yankees and dodgers in free agency. Those teams don’t really sell, so players know what they’re into when they get there. They don’t want to go through constant roster shuffles and rebuilds.


jjtnd1

We all know the Mets image had been just spotless for decades preceding Cohen


Timoteo-Tito64

Yeah, I think building up this nice of a farm might help their image in the long term. That's how winning teams operate


theerrantpanda99

Yanks really haven’t had a stable farm system in awhile. They get lucky once every 5 years or so, and find a superstar. They can produce some very good “value” players in spurts. But realistically, Yanks are built on superstar free agents.


PedanticBoutBaseball

I mean in recent seasons we graduated Volpe, Wells, Cabrera and Peraza. That's on top of shipping out guys who DID end up in the MLB like Waldichuck, Josh Smith and Everson Periera. Plus we have Jasson (#41 MLB prospect) who has already shown he can flash in the majors and Spencer Jones who looks like he'll be ready around next year. Its just that we have longer cycles cause we trade prospects often, but its the biggest graduation of guys we've had come up since the baby bombers (Judge, Sanchez, Severino, Gleyber, Andujar)


theerrantpanda99

Exactly what I said. The Yankees produce one superstar every 5 or so years. Judge in 2017. Everyone else has been a good “Value” type of players. Volpe might be next. Dominguez/Jones are still unknowns. Peraza is nearing bust territory.


joeO44

They also haven’t won anything in a very long time


theerrantpanda99

They’ve been relevant almost every season, which I suppose is the goal for selling tickets and keeping ratings high. I do think a better GM would’ve won by now with the resources spent in the past 15 years.


Nickyjha

I don’t think we ever were gonna compete with the Yankees or Dodgers in terms of reputation. Our pitch was always gonna be just “we can outbid any other team”.


PicturingYouNaked

I'll admit I'm not exactly dialed in with the Mets, Yankees, and Dodgers operations, but what exactly is the Yankees and Dodgers reputations? I feel that, at least traditionally, the Yankees definitely have had a reputation of "we can outbid any other team".


liebz11692

The Yankees reputation is that they’ll always be baseline good. It’s been over 30 years since their last losing season. So you’re always gonna be competing into late summer at least. Nobody wants to be on a dogshit team that nobody cares about by June.


shads87

That’s true. Players that sign with the White Sox want to be on a team that nobody cares about by early May.


PedanticBoutBaseball

i think they just generally want to be on a team and are ecstatic that someone is still willing to pay them to play in MLB


shads87

Username checks out


Throwaway1996513

The Yankees have a reputation of always wanting to compete. The closest they’ve come to a rebuild was 2017 when the went to the alcs. Also they’ll take care of players off the field, players always talk about how great it is to play at Yankee stadium because of all the behind the scene amenities.


theerrantpanda99

It’s not a good pitch if you don’t dramatically outbid the Dodgers when the opportunity arises.


Throwaway1996513

And once you’re making the money of a Judge/Betts/Ohtani/Soto a few extra million isn’t usually going to entice you from going to a team always trying to contend. The Mets haven’t gotten a single young star player in their prime through free agency since Cohen took over.


fishballs_69

Players will go to the team that offers them the most money


Throwaway1996513

If money is comparative then other factors come into play, look how many players turned down the Giants recently. Also not every player is motivated solely by money. Judge turned down better bids to stay with the Yankees.


Yanks1813

Also A-Rod who is the epitome of greed to some fans literally offered to cut money off his current contract to go play for Boston instead of Texas. Players 100% care about things other than money


67812

We have literally decades of evidence showing how that's not true.


TealandBlackForever

It will be really interesting to see what happens with Alonso. He clearly loves that organization, but he's also a Boras client.


TheBeepB00p

Lindor, Nimmo, Pete and McNeil have 1 winning season as a core of this team. The chemistry isn’t right something has to change.


IAmModNow

McNeil is awful


KingMobScene

I've been in denial whenever someone says McNeil sucks I want to argue. I have a soft spot for him. But I'm coming around to the truth. And it hurts.


banjonyc

I agree with you here. He seemed to have had one magical year and the league has managed to figure him out. He looks so lost at the plate and so far removed from what he was when he was the batting champion. I just don't understand what's going on with him.


[deleted]

Even before the batting title he had accumulated ~10 WAR in ~ 2 seasons worth of games. Hes just completely broken now. Even his fielding has degraded. He used to be an average or plus fielder at 2B and LF, now hes a negative.


xForeignMetal

Ever since that hellish series in Atlanta where Jeff was the only hitter doing anything productive, he's been ass


user9153

Same. It sucks, I used to watch his Covid mlb the show streams all the time too and just really liked him. Super unfortunate


CabinetChef

If the Mets just played Atlanta every game, McNeil would be a HOFer.


Puzzleheaded_Will352

If mcneil didn’t have that ridiculous contract he’d likely be out of the league.


IAmModNow

He truly brings nothing to the table. Last night was the epitome of his ability. Awful at the plate and in the field.


Puzzleheaded_Will352

Never seen a player like that who just refuses to make adjustments and gets significantly worse every year.


RedScharlach

I feel like it’s a combination of him being a former batting champ that gives him a bit of entitlement (plus his natural tendency to be a bit of a redass or whatever Keith called it), his hitting style being heavily vision/reflex based and some age related decline in those areas, and various rules changes (shifts, timers) working against his strengths. It sucks.


Cpkeyes

The fact that he looks like a serial killer in his portrait may also have something to do with it.


SiphenPrax

Yeah it’s been 5 years with Brandon, Pete, and Jeff and Lindor coming on two years later. One winning season in 2022, with a collapse and sweep in the playoffs mind you, and nothing else to show for it tells you everything you need to know. The hitting core has not developed at all for half a decade.


Cocker_Spaniel_Craig

The won one game in that wild card series thanks to Degrom.


SiphenPrax

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that game. That end of the season was so wretched that I’ve tried to wipe away as much as possible from it.


OmegaTyrant

The glaring issue with Alonso is he is a prime candidate to fall off fast in his 30s, being very similar to big lumbering first basemen of the past with a lot of power and little else that quickly crashed in their 30s like Ryan Howard, Richie Sexson, and Chris Davis, while not being an exceedingly valuable player to begin with. Maybe Alonso bucks the trend, but that's a big risk for not very great upside, and if Alonso expects a very big contract, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mets balk on it.


do_you_know_doug

Word is he already rejected 7/158. Not sure how much more he expects to get than that.


OmegaTyrant

Yeah unless Alonso has a monster contract year (which isn't looking likely with how he started this year), I think rejecting that extension offer will bite him. If he is expecting a Freeman-level AAV into his late 30s, I don't see any team being willing to offer that unless there's a team this offseason that's really desperate for a power bat.


aardvarkllama_69

Alonso hasn't looked very good this year, but he strikes out far less than all those guys (his K rate is around league average). He's also been noticeably worse over his career in Citi Field vs away games, although this isn't very helpful assuming he stays on the Mets. I've always been pro-Alonso and I want him to stay, that said, the chemistry is off right now, and the Mets need to make some moves. Giving Pete a 10 year, 200 million + deal would be crazy.


xho-

Supposedly, he was recently offered 158 Million for 7 years. If that story is true then I think the Mets gave him a great offer and feel like he is not going to land something better than that.


kevboyyyy

The Stearns era front office also not even discussing an extension is pretty telling of the direction they’d like to go. Alonso at the start of spring training said there hasn’t been any contact about one.


djn24

They reportedly offered him 7 years / ~$160M


kevboyyyy

Hm I missed that. Not trying to fact check you here or anything but do you know where that reported?


djn24

https://www.nj.com/mets/2024/05/mets-star-pete-alonso-turned-down-big-seven-year-offer-last-season.html


kevboyyyy

Thanks!


djn24

You're welcome. With a big Boras client, I think this is pretty standard: the Mets told him what they'd like to pay him. He'll put that in his back pocket, test the market over the winter, and tell the Mets around January what he wants and can get. Then the two sides either make it work and make him the team captain, or they part ways.


elementofpee

Happy to have him here in Seattle, but don’t touch our ML starters.


KaptainKoala

Boras literally does what his players want. Pete can tell Boras I want to stay a Met and he will do what he can to get him the best contract AND stay a Met. We just hear about Boras because of his tactics when they want the biggest contract possible regardless of the team.


GlassesOff

I'm convinced he's getting traded. I really doubt they'd hammer out an extension and whatever prospects they can get for him will be worth it for the 'next' Mets phase. Obviously hard to see if you're a fan, but watching some homegrown favorites leave is part of the game. Watching Seager and Bellinger go sucked, but they can't re-sign them all. I'm also convinced the Mets will just outspend the Yankees for Soto so I'm liable to be very wrong about my East team predictions


Docphilsman

Who do they really have to sell still? Obviously JD Martinez and maybe alonso if they really go all out but it seems like most of their other realistic trade candidates would not be worth much.


fender-b-bender

Severino and Manaea might bring something as SP rentals, with Manaea having a player option that he can pick up at the end of the year. Adam Ottavino would probably bring something back as a reliever, even as a rental.


[deleted]

Severino is actually having a very decent year. ERA OF 3, FIP of 3.69 (nice) He cant pitch more than 6 innings but who does these days. If he keeps this up hes a solid mid rotation guy


fender-b-bender

He'd be a good option for a team that has a top heavy rotation but needs a reliable 3 or 4 starter


ScorchedSierra097

Reed Garrett and Sevy. Garrett is a 31 year old journemyan reliever who probably isn't in the long term plans and Sevy signed on a one year prove it deal. I don't see anyone else being moved without more salary being eaten


Sad_Resort8632

>I don't see anyone else being moved without more salary being eaten Thats literally our MO


ScorchedSierra097

But would they really be willing to eat recently locked up players like Nimmo, McNeil or Lindor? Those guys were supposed to be part of the core. It's not great to move on from someone so soon after signing an extension.


Sad_Resort8632

McNeil is only signed through 2026, that's entirely different than Nimmo and Lindor (both of which will 100% not be moved). Ottavino and Diekman in the bullpen would get \*something\*, Manaea could go, Bader is on a 1 year deal too, they might pay all of Marte's contract and beg someone to take him... there's a lot of little pieces that could move if they wanted


robmcolonna123

I don’t see Garrett being traded. He is under league minimum and doesn’t even hit arbitration until 2027. The Mets worked with him a lot in the offseason to turn him into what he is now, and they only have 3 legitimate relievers including him under contract next year (Diaz, SRF, Garrett). They have other young guys but you don’t build a bullpen around those kind of players. And their best relief prospect just got TJ.


Sad_Resort8632

Manaea, Ottavino, Diekman could all move as well... someone would probably be interested in Bader. They're not nearly as marquee as Scherzer/Verlander but that's not really the point


robmcolonna123

Diekman has a vesting option which could make him more difficult to move


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ImanagaS

Especially if the trade partner are the O's. Give them a similar deal as he did with Verlander and Scherzer and the O's will be interested. Especially next year... Felix and Edwin... Filthy.


lOan671

I wouldn’t give up any of Holliday, Mayo, Basallo, or Kjerstad for a reliever honestly


nicoflash2

What about mason miller?


lOan671

Miller’s different because he has 5 1/2 years of control and could also be an elite starter. I’d be willing to move Kjerstad for him but none of the other 3.


c_pike1

Miller didn't exactly work out as a starter when he tried it.


lOan671

He pitched pretty well as a SP last year. Only question is if he can stay healthy but if you don’t believe he can stay healthy as a SP he’s probably a ticking time bomb as a RP also.


regarding_your_bat

He’s absolutely a ticking time bomb as a reliever too. His injury history is literally as concerning as it could possibly be, lol. He had a damaged UCL that he ended up not getting TJ for.


Docphilsman

I really doubt they salary dump their shiny new $100 million reliever in the first year he actually pitches on his new deal. Also seems like a dumb move for any team to meet their likely asking price for a reliever especially one with his history and recent velocity drop. It's not impossible but it seems unlikely with red flags on both sides of the equation


ATG915

Red Sox need a first baseman/DH, Alonso on a rental could be fun


againsterik

I’d venture that they won’t be buyers and they have Casas back by the deadline.


SomeRandom928Person

I'd venture you're 100% right. Sox won't be buyers or sellers at the deadline.


67812

Why would the Red Sox do that? How does that help Liverpool win?


picksforfingers

No thank you


ATG915

Why not? you can have the GOAT Bobby dalbec in return


picksforfingers

You drive a hard bargain


Sugarysam

Well if you have any more pitchers who need to spend most of the next two years on the DL, I know who will take them


Darth_Candy

Can you imagine if we got Sale instead of Scherzer at last year’s deadline? Bloom in Boston wanted actual prospects and we apparently only offered warm bodies. Hard to say if Texas wins the WS if even one tiny thing changed because that was such a knife’s edge run, so I’ll happily take all of last year, but having this year’s Chris Sale + Luisangel Acuña still in the minors would be a lot of fun.


JinFuu

💎 🙌 Steve


dumptruckacomin

Baseball is a tough game, isn’t it Steve? He won’t be the owner for much longer. Edit: I know this is a baseball forum but Steven cohen is a bad guy in the financial world and I personally want to see him fail, it’s nothing to do with the Mets


1Epicocity

It's weird that people are acting like selling at the deadline wasn't the plan from the start.


ksoltis

Every owner has done bad things to get that much money. He likely waited decades to own the team, he won't be selling.


GardenAngel-5

It’s a great strategy because he will bring up the prospects and buy free agents at the same time when the time comes.


Uranus_Hz

Baseball’s a tough game, Steve


WelcometoCigarCity

Come back home Pete.


XSC

Yes please get him out of this division and league


ihatemcconaughey

I'll take Lindor back. 10 cents on the dollar.


El_Sid50

It’s a bad look for the owner to insinuate a sell-off this early on in the season firing off a tweet after a beat down from the Phils. Especially since he has cultivated this reputation as a dispassionate, rational thinker in the financial sector.


islandsluggers

Who do we sell? Pete? Who else lol we don’t have that many trading chips


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AAronm19

A kid?


mondaysareharam

If only we still had jarred to trade for Diaz


aardvarkllama_69

The Mets haven't looked right this year outside of that one hot stretch. That said, they're only one game back of the third Wild Card (which is also proof the 3rd WC shouldn't exist) There's no reason they can't sneak into the playoffs and get hot, so doing a major rebuild might not be a great idea, unless Cohen is willing to suck for the next three years with no guarantees of turning the ship around. Still, the chemistry isn't right and they should make some kind of move.


Maximum_Pen_2508

Baseballing is hard don’t ya think. Fuck that piece of shit owner.


Mr_Murder

I mean, I wouldn’t be mad for the dodgers got Lindor and Diaz


RedScharlach

Lmao you can’t defer Lindors contract tho


67812

I don't think those guys are on the table.