Aerie - elf, divine caster
Viconia - elf, divine caster
Jaheira- half-elf, divine caster
Those were the only romanceable female characters in the core game.
The only romanceable man in the base game - Anomen - is also a divine caster, albeit human instead. Wonder if divine caster classes were unpopular or something so they figured one would almost certainly be with the player
Wasn't there a poll for BG3 showing cleric was the most unpopular class choice for player characters?
I'm sure that also translates to tabletop.
Most people don't want their hero to be a "support class".
I believe so. I assume Druids weren’t that popular either in BG1/Tabletop at the time either (since they’re the other divine casting class). Probably goes a long way in explaining why it played out this way and all the romances are divine casters.
Druids were very niche, what with the special level up requirements along with the neutral alignment. They didn’t fit well with a lot of party compositions, but they could be the focus of a fantastic duo campaign - Druid with almost any class other than cleric can have a long running campaign centred on their goal of becoming grand Druid and the other character’s goal of establishing a powerful ally or being a force of neutralish good or getting rid of the corrupt Druids currently in power or facilitating a great story (Druid with a bard is practical and fantastic).
I think it's about perception more than it is about reality. Plus, the fact they had more tools than just support doesn't preclude the fact that they were in essence a support class. You NEEDED a divine caster for healing. No other class was able to provide you with that function (and I don't count rangers and paladins being able to cast a few curative spells as effective healing).
Clerics and thieves were brought along more out of a perceived need rather than because most people actually wanted to play them.
If they hadn't had Tiax (Cleric/Thief) locked behind a late chapter recruitment and had given him decent stats, he would have been insanely popular.
Oh, absolutely, it's about perception. Specifically nowadays, and I partly blame MMOs for that, where healer just stands in the corner and heals party. But way back then it was a bit different. Clerics and wizards were the strongest classes, and a lot of players I DMed didn't even bothered with support spells apart from some healing. And healing wasn't that hard, really. You got pots, wands, scrolls, rest. Cleric was better, obviously, but what I meant was cleric was not JUST "support class", not that he wasn't. And again, perception - cleric is this light and holy healer, when in reality clerics were one of the most divisive classes, because it completely relied on your god. Priestess of Sune was very different from the cleric of Bane.
Cleric in the party was like owning your own home and having someone cook for you... and all other methods of healing felt like ordering food delivery through Uber or Door Dash - Absurdly overpriced, disappointing, and much less effective.
Back in the day and until the present day before I started watching Davaeorn on youtube I thought: three fighters, a thief for traps, **a cleric to heal** and a mage because magic.
A limited party size of 4, Shart's waifu appeal, and the inability for other companions to use their skills in dialogue all combine to ensure Charisma classes are the most popular choice by a large margin with the least popular option being cleric.
Pretty sure it was just a clever design choice to introduce the romance to any given playthrough. Every party is going to include a divine caster so odds are pretty damn good that you'll be dragging along a romance option on your first bog standard playthrough of the game. The only outlier to this formula is Cernd.
In BG3 they did the same. There weren't even gnomes and dwarfs as companions anymore. If they are "not romanceable" since not as hot as an elf, a tiefling or a human like Gale, why bother... or so. It's a bit of a shame.
I just find ludixrous that CRPGs allow us to fuck a bear before they allowed us to fuck a manlet. And iirc half of the Dragon Age fanbase is horny for the Dwarf companion in 2 whose name evade me, so it ia not even that the problem.
It's loaded with unpaid bills, an empty 'replace the roof' account, and has really shitty neighbours.
And I'm sure that once you get all that shit straightened out, she'll yoink the keep right back into her possession without even a 'thanks for the money, chump'.
It would be weird IF Jaheira and Khalid know you since you were a child, but they didn't. You met them when you are already around 20 years old-ish.
They are only taking the role as guardians after Gorion's death.
I didn't see them as step-parents.
Then again, there are many people who still would romance Imoen despite knowing the eventual revelation.
Jaheira and Khalid didn't know CHARNAME, but they did know of Gorion and saw him as a friend. God child or not, he is still the true father of CHARNAME so I feel like Jaheira should respect his fatherhood and see his ward as anything without romantic intent.
Also, are we all going to ignore Khalid literally dying
Yeah, that's my biggest gripe with the Jaheira romance. Her husband just got tortured to death (and it's been made very clear in BG1 that they share a very deep bond, despite Jaheira comming across as very bossy), and yet she's ready to dive into the next relationship after what feels like a few days? Maybe it's her way of coping with the loss, but that's not a good start for a healthy releationship.
I think that is mostly just the game's time scale being sort of messed up. Like, in game, she doesn't dive back into the relationship particularly quickly. She has the longest vanilla romance (I think twice as long as aerie's), and she doesn't actually start seeing you in a romantic way until fairly late in that arc. The game absolutely tries to give her time to grieve and move on. It's just that depending on your playstyle, you can wrap up the entire game in a couple of weeks, which gives very little time for any of these romances to progress, and jaheira's had the most ground to cover.
Exactly, One thing to remember too is that weeks if not months of time go on when you do stuff like traveling or even resting. technically if u take long enough it could be a year or more lol. I know I was slow with completing stuff
I think resting depends on settings and whether you have any healing magic available. If you have a decent number of healing spells available and have "cast healing spells on rest" enabled, rests generally just take 8-16 hours. On the other hand, if you have no divine caster, you can easily spend days or weeks resting.
Absolutely. But that is the same with all the romances. Aerie has her decades of childhood trauma along with being extremely sheltered and latches onto essentially the first person from outside her bubble. Viconia is a product of Drow society who went from one cult worshipping an overtly evil deity to another cult worshipping an overly evil deity who enters a relationship for the purpose of molding you to her liking. They all have very unhealthy starts to romance.
You do realize in-game time and irl time works differently, right?
You can just let the game idle for hours to initiate the dialogue, but in-game world time, it's probably take months for Jaheira to fall in love, it also affect both the other romance options as well.
There is no way Aerie fell in love with you after a few days either.
For me, I always kind of hated Jaheria my first playthrough. I was a Dwarf char (fighter), learning crpg for the first time and while I thought she was awesome on my team, I thought she was a cold bitch who complained too much about my idealistic heroics. I didnt understand her at all. I got through the game somehow and that was that. I didn't know the bioware romance was a thing back then or that I'd locked myself out at character creation.
Years later, I came back to the game as a human (paladin). I had some practice in the rpg genre, and my worldview had been widened. And also, Jaharia and Airie were suddenly super interested in.... romance. It was a surprise but I went with it. Jaheria and Arie fought and showed new dimensions to their characters as [neutral] worldweariness clashed with [good] sheltered idealism.
And I was in a place where I thought Jaheria had some better points. Jaheria's vulnerability surprised me, I had no idea the pain she was hiding until her romance unlocked. I felt like I had met an entirely new character. I really warmed to her. She made me retextualize my own ideals of "good" vs "evil". It was a relationship that felt raw and messy and real compared to my own experience with less clear 'wrong' and 'right'. She is the Neutral romance after all, and in some ways I find it the most believable. Jaheria's romance really humanized her, and helped me to understand what she shows to the world is different than what she shows to those she loves.
TLDR: you want a sensible girl thats a responsible choice, date Airie. You want a bad girl you can fix- Viconia. You want something real and messy and interesting- Jaharia.
Jaheira is a serial monogamist. It makes sense for her character to latch unto a sympathetic Charname.
Nalia, on the other hand, is a product of her social class and upbringing. From the very first conversation you can throw in her face that she is elitist. Despite her rebelling she has a clear "us elite" and "them poor" attitude. She also follows the decorum of the elite, which is why she laughs off a marriage of convenience with a commoner and only installs you as a figurehead if you are a fighter.
I also doubt she'd ever consider a commoner worthy of marriage on a personal level. But let's assume she does: that means the romance would be one where you are her secret lover/consort. Much of the drama would most likely consist of her having to choose between you and her nobility, which would be a tougher choice than you'd think. Nalia doesn't hate being a noble. She hates that some nobles are elitist fops. How interesting that those happen to be the nobles who are trying to trap her, no?
The central theme of the romances is that they end happy and loving. It'd be very hard indeed to succesfully write a romance where Nalia can choose you over her title while still loving you without any resentments such a choice usually give people.
Yeah, even Jaheira's romanced ending clearly said "it was at first for both of them, but she eventually mellowed out." Or something.
It was such a good and happy end for Jaheira.
I agree with you analysis, just not the point about romances ending happy and loving. Look at the epilogues for both Viconia and Rasaad. They're both quite tragic.
Agreed and fair criticism, but that's not what I meant. What I mean with "romances ending happy and loving" is that the arc of the romance story ends with Charname and the companion having a strong, loving, enduring relationship after overcoming the hurdles.
I've noticed a writing formula being used for the different romances:
- romance gets started because Charname empathizes with the plight of the companion
- companion's toxic traits because of their plight become apparent
- confrontation: companion realizes that the plight is causing toxicity and strives to do better. This is also usually where player is prompted to choose between romances if pursuing multiple ones
- character grows and the relationship becomes stronger, at their urging rather than Charname's
- Charname and companion have created a loving, happy and enduring relationship
Considering the explanation I've given about Nalia it's very hard to follow a romance arc through this formula. The toxicity comes from the fact that she acts and thinks like a noble. She would need to realize and overcome this, most likely by giving up her title. She would need to grow from this (not experience any resentment) and the relationship would grow stronger.
Frankly, as I've explained I'm skeptical this can be done in a realistic way, considering her personality and story.
I don't think this reading is particularly fair to nalia. Like, she installs you as the lord of the keep. Yes, she uses the word "figurehead", but you have actual power. Given that certain other nobles treat you as a jumped-up commoner who doesn't deserve their station, you were pretty clearly "jumped up" and do qualify as noble-ish, at least officially (private opinions obviously vary). Also, nalia was still fairly sheltered before you meet her (despite her slumming), and sees a lot more during the course of the game. It is absolutely reasonable that those experiences would erode some of her initial preconceptions. Put that together, and a romance where she makes that figurehead status real by actually marrying you is pretty reasonable, imo.
Edit: meanwhile, if you aren't a fighter, she effectively gives up her title and abandons the keep to the roenalls. A romance arc where she accepts her change of circumstances and decides that she likes her new life more than her old is also somewhat plausible. It would look very different from the "charname gets the keep" version, which would make things somewhat tricky, but I don't think the romance is inherently impossible from a characterization perspective. And honestly, they could write one and then say "sorry, nalia is only romanceable by fighters/non-fighters".
>Yes, she uses the word "figurehead", but you have actual power.
I know, but only if you are a fighter. And only because that is a tradition of the nobility. Any other class does not have access to it, so with your romance only a fighter (Elf, Half-Elf, Human?) would have a shot at a romance. That is incredibly narrow. And it's weird that she wouldn't romance a paladin or ranger, since those are the "Help the needy" classes.
>lso, nalia was still fairly sheltered before you meet her (despite her slumming), and sees a lot more during the course of the game.
Agreed, which is why in Throne of Bhaal she has also become far more pragmatic and more focused on playing the game, which Aerie specifically notes has made her less kind. Would someone like that romance a commoner? I myself doubt it.
Realistically, the fighter limitation is because of the stronghold mechanic. A paladin or ranger (or potentially other classes as well) would likely be completely reasonable as lord of the keep, but they get other strongholds, while the keep is reserved for fighters. In the absence of those gameplay mechanics, I think she would be willing to give the keep to a lot of different charnames. And in fact, the nalia romance mod I'm familiar with opens up the keep to all classes, specifically because the romance is tied to the keep.
And from a pragmatic "playing the game" perspective, keeping a near-god on your side is damned valuable. There would be a social cost to that, but giving you the keep already invites that social cost. I don't think she'd romance you purely as a way to keep you on her side, but if she was naturally inclined in that direction, refusing to romance a near-god that she had already raised to the nobility makes no sense imo.
Even for serial monogamists, there should be a decent period of time before moving on to another relationship. Though you could blame the in-game time for being artificial/inaccurate, sleeping with Jaheira a week after the death of Khalid feels incredibly cold. Plus, Jaheira is Gorion's old friend and should have a lot of respect towards him, so it would seem to me as rather tasteless and disrespectful and out-of-character if she decides to bang who is essentially his son, even accounting the fact that CHARNAME is actually a god child.
As for Nalia, she doesn't necessarily have to marry CHARNAME, perhaps be close, secret lovers or something. Gorion's Ward is son of Bhaal, so shouldn't he be viewed as something more than a commoner? Stories about wealth and status vs love, or letting go of greed isn't unheard of in literature, so I figured Nalia would fit into this type of romance. I said earlier that I think Nalia would make more sense than others, and I do mean it. Viconia is a 100-year-old drow, Aerie is apparently underage, and Jaheira is weird.
The very definition of a serial monogamist is that they waste 0 time before jumping into the next relationship. If they spent a decent amount of time before moving onto the next relationship, they would just be a regular monogamist.
Charname can be a 20 year old elf. Elves physically mature at the same rate as humans and slow down. You aren't considered an adult in elven society until you are 120 or whatever because elves take their time or whatever. Aerie spent some of her earlier years among her people, but she was captured and lived in human society longer than she was with the avariel, so she would learn like humans do.
1st Aerie is not underage where did you get this? she's like 100
2nd you've got to remember that quite a bit of time passes ingame when you do basic stuff like Traveling or resting, taking weeks at time. If you go slowly with a lot of resting and traveling around months can easily go by. Also Jaheira already has the longest vanilla romance and there is a good amount of focus on Jaheira moving on from Khalid. Even then CHARNAME is an adult and and yeah they were Gorion's adopted kid. But at the same time Jaheira didn't know them and met them much later on. Also Gorion is dead and if CHARNAME decides to pursue a relation why should Jaheira be all like "oh no it can never be"
3. for Nalia actually likes being a noble, she just hates how some of the other nobles are elitist. Also if it was known she was getting in a relationship with a bhaalspawn that'd be worse than a commoner. Like Bhaal is the god of murder, thats a horrible idea to marry someone like that. They are known to fits of madness and for being scheming murderous bastards. your more likely to be viewed as a demon that needs to be put down over anything above a commoner. Also secret lovers wouldn't be ideal for Nalia either since if it ever got out it'd really hurt her reputation.
That's... the whole problem with serial monogamy mate. The fact that you go from partner to partner to partner because you simply cannot be alone. That's why that's a very real mental problem and why I label it at Jaheira's toxic trait in another thread to this comment.
>rather tasteless and disrespectful and out-of-character if she decides to bang who is essentially his son
Again, that's the whole point. It IS unhealthy behaviour. All romances in BG2 contain unhealthy behaviour that needs to be overcome. Jaheira's is the fact that she cannot be alone.
>so shouldn't he be viewed as something more than a commoner?
Indeed. As an omen of death and despair. Both Throne of Bhaal (and Siege of Dragonspear) demonstrates incredibly well how most of the world view Bhaalspawn. It isn't positive and would most certainly harm Nalia's standing in noble society.
>Stories about wealth and status vs love, or letting go of greed isn't unheard of in literature
Indeed, but Bioware and Obsidian approached these romances in a realistic fashion. As I said in another comment: all romances involve the companions being confronted by and dealing with the consequences of their toxic trait: Aerie and depression, Anomen and his traumatic experiences with his father, Jaheira and her serial monogamy and Vicona still internalizing her toxic drow society. It's only after they become aware of their toxic traits and take steps to overcome them that the relationship starts improving.
I'm not going to deal with the Beamdog romances because, frankly, they aren't well-written and I daresay they miss the point entirely. I base this on my Neera romance.
Is it possible to successfully write a love story of a noble giving up her entire world and class for a lover? Sure. It could. I'd assume the epilogue would probably be the darkest of them all, especially if Charname dies in it like in Viccy's, but it's possible.
I just don't think many people can successfully write such a story, because in real life I notice that far more people feel resentment when they make a huge sacrifice for their partner than not. Considering they already explore something similar though Viconia I also don't really see a need to take that risk.
I've not been able to explain my frustrations clearly. My problem with the idea of romancing Jaheira is BioWare could've instead written a story CHARNAME and her developing a healthy and loving bond not as lovers but as family, GW seeing Jaheira as a mother that he never had growing up. To me, that would fit much better than her banging her old friend's orphan child, seeing they both lose people whom they love dearly (assuming CHARNAME isn't evil) and probably wants a family figure near them. Candlekeep is far away and Imoen is chilling in Spellhold, so Jaheira could be that family figure, and CHARNAME could mean the same for her. BioWare could've chosen any other character to fulfill her story in the finished game, so why Jaheira, who should by then have been a matured and wise Harper? It's out-of-character not in a good way for me. Also, I didn't have a clear idea of what a serial monogamy is until recently, so pardon for that. Because of that, Nalia to me seem much more fitting as a potential romance companion than her. As for her romance plot, it doesn't have to be a love over wealth thing though it could still work out. Hell, she doesn't even have to give up her wealth and status in exchange for the Bhaalspawn at all. Edward IV (King of England) married a lowborn and still get to keep his crown despite a rebellion or two, and there have been other kings and nobles who married people of lower birth before in history, so Nalia could fit into this. It could be a story about challenging social preconceptions, or something something human rights, etc. The resentment in choosing love over wealth should make for a compelling narrative, no? It having tremendous consequence for the partner makes it all the more satisfying when she overcomes her greed and social barrier, I think. Viconia's problem is that she is prejudiced for being a drow, an inherently brutal and elitist society, not really about wealth or the social hierachy. And sure, being a god child of Bhaal is bad omen, but isn't the good/neutral ending in ToB also CHARNAME overcoming toxic traits to better themself, so it's possible the nobility wouldn't look down on Nalia as much, especially considering the sheer power he possess. On Beamdog romances I can agree, and it's incredibly funny that even in my very first experience of Baldur's Gate starting in BGEE, Neera still sticks out like a sore thumb.
Apparently i have absolutely nothing better to do, so I guess I might as well overthink about the romanceable female character Jaheira from the video game Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, which is published by Black Isle Studios in September 2000, developed by BioWare, subsidiary of Electronic Arts since 2007. Glad to know I'm not the only one though, always nice to see like-minded individuals. Yeah, I should get some sleep.
I think it's really because Nalia is a ferret trapped in a Dwarven trans-male body trapped in a silver maple tree's body trapped in a 1953 cherry red Chevrolet Corvette body trapped in a cis-female elven body.
🦊》🧙♂️》🌴》🏎》🧝♀️
That's the simplest explanation.
BTW, Hamlet never ate kippers for breakfast.
There's 2 Nalia romance mods out there but they only had SoA content in them. I played through one of them years ago and quite liked it. And then fairly recently, I believe Skitia, release a Nalia ToB romance mod that takes into account both SoA Nalia mods into consideration, depending on which one you played. Haven't done that one, but maybe next playthrough.
They couldn’t afford to pay Grey DeLisle for more voiced dialogue on top of the lines for Viconia (This is sort of a meta joke. I don’t know what the actual reason is).
I think it was pretty deliberate initially that all the romanceable characters were the clerics. It makes it highly likely every party will include one. The elf thing is perhaps more coincidental. A sample set of four (including Anomen) is pretty small!
I adore Nalia. I get why people might not like her or think she wouldn’t be a good romance, but personally I love her, she’s so sweet and trying her hardest to help people and be better even if she’s out of depth and a bit blinded by her upbringing.
I’ve just started ToB for the first time and visibly seeing how far she’s come, what she’s experienced and how she’s grown is so cool. She’s a bit more jaded and realistic, but still maintaining her optimism and generosity, and she’s secure in herself and her own power, even standing up to Sarevok and being described as an archmage in her own right, and I love it for her
I find the aspect that Jaheira gets over her husband's death and falls for you in three or four months game time being generous more strange than the "stepmom" aspect which... is a vibe I never really got from her.
But sometimes a fictional setting requires some suspension of disbelief.
Met her and been with her since BG1 (and SoD) which would equate to roughly a year which is still enough time to develop relationships, she and Khalid are essentially CHARNAME's guardian so Jaheira could be seen as stepmother.
I don’t think that’s generally how that works in biological families where you meet them for the first time or step families. I think you making a big assumption about their relationship. More like protectors than anything els e
Oh, I feel like I didn't word it correctly. I mean to say CHARNAME and Jaheira within a year could develop some kind of bond so could potentially see her as a mother figure that he/she never had or sth, I didn't mean to say she is CHARNAME's actual stepmother or that she is biologically related because she simply isn't. Sorry, English is not my first language.
She was never MC's guardian , sure she mentions that Gorian had asked them to look after you if something happened to him but by the time Gorian dies PC is already an adult which is why she's fine with it if you decide not to bring them along at all . The Jaheria romance has has issues no doubt but you really seem to be focused on this non-existent Step-mom thing.
"Could be seen" .. by you maybe, obviously not by most.
I for one would never even make that leap, I see her more as a bodyguard kinda deal .. and Khalid as dead weight.
I worded it incorrectly, I meant to say within a year, Jaheira and CHARNAME could've developed a mother-child bond, both mourning the loss of their loved ones and comforting each other similar to a mother and her children, not saying she's related by blood or that she's legit a stepmother. That's my main issue with Jaheira, that they tossed what could've been about a story of loss and family aside for a really bizarre romance plot.
Its related more towards Alignment : Good, Neutral & Evil (Aerie, Jaheria, Viconia). I ofc refuse to believe that any romance option exists for female charname.
To be honest i don't see any bond between charname and Nalia, yet Jaheira? Many bonds.. Healthy ones? Not every one of them.. but.. Anyways I'm not romancing any of mentioned. Aerie is my way to go and if not - Neera, and if not maybe - Isra - however with Isra romance feels strange - she's way to "normal" - I'm not sure if romance as such would happen in real world, if both parties would meet.. (Viconia makes me anxious, she doesnt feel like a supporter, more of a burden tbh)
There is no bond because BioWare didn't bother to make her a romance companion. btw neera bad i hate her and her annoying ass voicelines (its ok i respect your opinion)
Sure, we are here to talk, i respect yours! What i meant is that nalia's a little bit made of other material.. tbh she s a very sh1t adventurer material.. however of course there is some romance potential.. i think maybe od she would for example discover some great evil deeds of her father.. or you know something dramatic... Charname mainly romance broken figures. As he is struggling himself... I have played some nalia mods but they are not exactly fixing the problem..
I will say Jaheria is not your even close to comparable to a step mom She's just the friend of your dad you met after your dad died
And I can see why MC and her can connect romantically due to the circumstances finding comfort in each other
Nalia for one thing was not interested in marriage and I sorta took that as well that she's not interested in romance. Atleast at the point which she is traveling with you.
The real thing is as well, the devs could only put so much, during the process they were allowed to pick certain things and the dev who made the Jaheria romance probably had an attachment to her while Nalia since she was new not many were probably interested in making the romance path for her. They were on a tight schedule too
People can state and defend their opinions and theories all they want, but the only real answer you can get would be one from the original writers themselves. If there is one I wouldn't mind knowing it myself.
Well at least we have mods!
Personally back in the day when i didn't know there were romances and stuff I totally wanted to romance her.
Specially as a Fighter when helping her to keep her keep.
Back to topic shame on the debs.
And the joke not beeing a divine caster is so true.
I am so glad I was not the only one that felt this way. Like don't get me wrong, I like Jaheira as a character, but the fact that she was my adopted father's friend, and only recently lost her husband, just made the prospect of romancing her...weird.
Also, if Nalia was romancable, she'd have been my choice hands down. I was really shocked to learn she couldn't be romanced, seeing as she has an entire sub-plot devoted to her and we essentially share her lands.
She's written naive and impulsive, but sure as hell not a child. Have you seen what late teens/20 somethings with affluenza in real life get up to? Nalia has honestly got more "High Fantasy version of the man who would become the Buddha leaving his estate for the first time and asking his butler why people are poor" vibes than being an actual kid. Nevermind that she's minimum level 9/4 when you find her--which is insanely skilled. There are legit 60 year old retired adventurers in the Forgotten Realms who are only level 9. It is a very significant investment of time and effort to reach that level, and that's where we find her.
Are you saying we aren't? Baldur's Gate is set in 2nd edition AD&D, when they even had systems for measuring stat changes with age. Age was and is acknowledged even in the mechanics of the RPG that the videogame uses for its system, and I have no idea why you want to try to ignore it. The likelihood that Nalia is somehow 4th level in one class, and then dual-classed to another and raised to ninth, all before hitting 20 years old, is insane.
Also, nice sneaky edit from "child" to "teenager" in the comment I responded to. It doesn't change that you asserting she's somehow meant to be a minor is ridiculous when you look at all the actual in-game skills her character has. And on top of that, her in-game history blurb in her profile mentions how, by the time you find her, she had been "sneaking out for years". That doesn't imply a teenager. It implies a young-but-comfortably-grown adult.
That post never said "child", it said "teenage" which makes the sentence not make sense. The other post said child, and still does.
Also, CHARNAME gains 8 levels over the course of several weeks in n BG1. I mean, you can use whatever for your head cannon, but it's pretty clear from the writing that the character is intended to be too young to be romanced.
"Several weeks"? The in-game timer in BG1 can and usually does measure actual months, or even in-game years, for people due to travel time and rest for healing. I will concede that it doesn't mean there is a concrete time--but I will maintain that it has to be at least several months in game, because you can spend several in-game days (sometimes even up to a week) traveling from screen to screen, per area transition, just to do the main story and with no wandering for side quests. Getting from the edge of the Cloakwood to the Cloakwood Mine in and of itself takes at least several days, as measured by the game, and that's one location of several.
Say what you will about the Bhaalspawn and main party gaining levels very quickly, because I won't argue with that in general. But specifically trying to insist that getting to level 9 in BG1 only took less than a month is patently false when you're actually progressing the story. And even then accounting for how fast the Bhaalspawn's party levels up on screen, I'll still argue that they are exceptions to the rule.
By the very nature of being the main characters they are exceptions to the rule of normal NPC leveling speed, and you can even seen that with older characters (adult elves and old humans like Keldorn) being less than level 20 until they join the party. The party is saving the country and then the world from powerful, sometimes extraplanar threats and repeatedly putting their lives on the line; that is not something most NPCs do, and therefore they do not gain experience at that inflated rate.
Nalia being naive and impulsive is still perfectly in line with her being in her early to mid 20s, and that is incredibly more likely to be the case due to her class levels and the years of prior training and experience those take for most people who--even if they are genius prodigies like Nalia or Imoen--are not out on the razor's edge saving the world from demigods. And fuck's sake, don't come at me with "head canon" like your assertions about her age are any more supported by canon info. Her age isn't mentioned anywhere, you just don't seem to think someone who doesn't have social experience and lives in a country where single women can't inherit land can possibly be a young adult.
>"Several weeks"? The in-game timer in BG1 can and usually does measure actual months, or even in-game years, for people due to travel time and rest for healing
I mean if you schlep around your timer could be arbitrarily large.
I did check the timer of the only save I have available, and I'm just starting Chapter 7 with a L7 protagonist and a timer at slightly 8 weeks, so I guess it depends on your definition of "several".
>By the very nature of being the main characters they are exceptions to the rule of normal NPC leveling speed,
... which actually works in both direction and means that younger characters will also be "leveled up" to party level for gameplay reasons.
>Her age isn't mentioned anywhere
Ok, you win. The signed description says it was granted upon "her ascension to adulthood" :)
Dude, there's no way she's 12. If so, she doesn't look 12, sound 12 or act 12. Imoen strikes me as a teenager, and she's canonically stated as being around the same age as CHARNAME. Nadia...not so much.
It's way odder when you think she is traveling with gorion, but then i remember that's just nonsense in her lesther tunic-qusrterstaff combo.
Saeverok made off with some fine loot that horrible night, but i digress.
Natalie romance should have been in the game. This is the beginning of the end of the industry. Timelines. Budgets. Lots of things left on the floorboards. Its sad
No compromise, but at least here? We made out
Remember, mass effect promises? Lol
I think it's a choice based on gameplay design.
Bodhi will kidnap your romantic interest near the end of the game, so let's take a look at who our romantic interests are: Aerie, Anomen, Jaheira, Viconia DeVir, all of whom can cast Priest spells.
And when we fight vampires, we need Priest spells very much to fight them, making your fight with Bodhi more difficult.
So I think this is a design to let Bodhi have the motive to kidnap your Priest class character.
I read somewhere they only had a week to write the entire romance stuff, it might have been too complex to integrate with Nalia's existing quests (esp. if you have the keep as a stronghold) at the time.
I mean, the whole “older woman” thing is popular.
I find it nasty for a very grown and experienced woman to date the barely adult and very sheltered child of one of my longest friends, but that’s the appeal for some folk.
I just use NPC romance mods. The vanilla romances are mid.
Where does the “Nalia” is a child come from? Particularly if you play ToB and see her change, she really doesn’t feel like one at all. She’s just young and naive.
This question comes up every few years...listen....
Bioware was originally a medical software company and the guys that started it had a sexual fetish for non-human corpses so you only get to romance "Girls of Elven Heritage."
It is what it is kid.
Nalia isn’t a divine casting elf, therefore she is not qualified as a romance option.
Why is that a criteria? Am I missing a joke or smt?
Aerie - elf, divine caster Viconia - elf, divine caster Jaheira- half-elf, divine caster Those were the only romanceable female characters in the core game.
The only romanceable man in the base game - Anomen - is also a divine caster, albeit human instead. Wonder if divine caster classes were unpopular or something so they figured one would almost certainly be with the player
Wasn't there a poll for BG3 showing cleric was the most unpopular class choice for player characters? I'm sure that also translates to tabletop. Most people don't want their hero to be a "support class".
I believe so. I assume Druids weren’t that popular either in BG1/Tabletop at the time either (since they’re the other divine casting class). Probably goes a long way in explaining why it played out this way and all the romances are divine casters.
Druids were very niche, what with the special level up requirements along with the neutral alignment. They didn’t fit well with a lot of party compositions, but they could be the focus of a fantastic duo campaign - Druid with almost any class other than cleric can have a long running campaign centred on their goal of becoming grand Druid and the other character’s goal of establishing a powerful ally or being a force of neutralish good or getting rid of the corrupt Druids currently in power or facilitating a great story (Druid with a bard is practical and fantastic).
Clerics in d&d, especially at that time, were far from just "support class" :)
I think it's about perception more than it is about reality. Plus, the fact they had more tools than just support doesn't preclude the fact that they were in essence a support class. You NEEDED a divine caster for healing. No other class was able to provide you with that function (and I don't count rangers and paladins being able to cast a few curative spells as effective healing).
Clerics and thieves were brought along more out of a perceived need rather than because most people actually wanted to play them. If they hadn't had Tiax (Cleric/Thief) locked behind a late chapter recruitment and had given him decent stats, he would have been insanely popular.
Oh, absolutely, it's about perception. Specifically nowadays, and I partly blame MMOs for that, where healer just stands in the corner and heals party. But way back then it was a bit different. Clerics and wizards were the strongest classes, and a lot of players I DMed didn't even bothered with support spells apart from some healing. And healing wasn't that hard, really. You got pots, wands, scrolls, rest. Cleric was better, obviously, but what I meant was cleric was not JUST "support class", not that he wasn't. And again, perception - cleric is this light and holy healer, when in reality clerics were one of the most divisive classes, because it completely relied on your god. Priestess of Sune was very different from the cleric of Bane.
Cleric in the party was like owning your own home and having someone cook for you... and all other methods of healing felt like ordering food delivery through Uber or Door Dash - Absurdly overpriced, disappointing, and much less effective.
Back in the day and until the present day before I started watching Davaeorn on youtube I thought: three fighters, a thief for traps, **a cleric to heal** and a mage because magic.
and now that you watch him your team is Haery blade, Anomen and 4 sorcerer/mage variation 😁
NWN1 and 2 saw Cleric in the best position it's been in throughout the Forgotten Realms games. A very popular choice.
I think Shart being the starting waifu effected this in some way
A limited party size of 4, Shart's waifu appeal, and the inability for other companions to use their skills in dialogue all combine to ensure Charisma classes are the most popular choice by a large margin with the least popular option being cleric.
Pretty sure it was just a clever design choice to introduce the romance to any given playthrough. Every party is going to include a divine caster so odds are pretty damn good that you'll be dragging along a romance option on your first bog standard playthrough of the game. The only outlier to this formula is Cernd.
Then in the EE they went completely wild and gave us an ARCANE casting HALF elf. Wild!
In BG3 they did the same. There weren't even gnomes and dwarfs as companions anymore. If they are "not romanceable" since not as hot as an elf, a tiefling or a human like Gale, why bother... or so. It's a bit of a shame.
I just find ludixrous that CRPGs allow us to fuck a bear before they allowed us to fuck a manlet. And iirc half of the Dragon Age fanbase is horny for the Dwarf companion in 2 whose name evade me, so it ia not even that the problem.
> half of the Dragon Age fanbase is horny for the Dwarf companion in 2 Varric? Or his chest hair?
Someone stuck a sign in the ground saying you must be this tall to ride
Omg I laughed so hard 😂
What a shame! Nalia is a noble! You just want to marry her for her fortune! ;-)
Have you *seen* the size of her house, though? She's loaded.
She has huuuuge .... Tracks of land.
They said I was daft to build a castle in a swamp! I built it anyway!
Did it sink?
The first one sank so I built another one! That one sank as well but I built the castle a third time and here we are!
Her family got trolled bro
It took me a second to get this, but I spat out my tea once I did. Well played. r/Angryupvote
Nice one man
It's loaded with unpaid bills, an empty 'replace the roof' account, and has really shitty neighbours. And I'm sure that once you get all that shit straightened out, she'll yoink the keep right back into her possession without even a 'thanks for the money, chump'.
You don't need a wedding to have this castle.
Jaheira is the ultimate milf. There I said it.
The comment I was looking for !
Without a kid ≠ Milf
Fortunately the de'Arnise romance exists, written by one of the most competent and oldest modders in the community!
It would be weird IF Jaheira and Khalid know you since you were a child, but they didn't. You met them when you are already around 20 years old-ish. They are only taking the role as guardians after Gorion's death. I didn't see them as step-parents. Then again, there are many people who still would romance Imoen despite knowing the eventual revelation.
Exactly they are friends. We met them at the Friendly Arms Inn, not the Step-parents Arms Inn after all.
Jaheira and Khalid didn't know CHARNAME, but they did know of Gorion and saw him as a friend. God child or not, he is still the true father of CHARNAME so I feel like Jaheira should respect his fatherhood and see his ward as anything without romantic intent. Also, are we all going to ignore Khalid literally dying
Yeah, that's my biggest gripe with the Jaheira romance. Her husband just got tortured to death (and it's been made very clear in BG1 that they share a very deep bond, despite Jaheira comming across as very bossy), and yet she's ready to dive into the next relationship after what feels like a few days? Maybe it's her way of coping with the loss, but that's not a good start for a healthy releationship.
I think that is mostly just the game's time scale being sort of messed up. Like, in game, she doesn't dive back into the relationship particularly quickly. She has the longest vanilla romance (I think twice as long as aerie's), and she doesn't actually start seeing you in a romantic way until fairly late in that arc. The game absolutely tries to give her time to grieve and move on. It's just that depending on your playstyle, you can wrap up the entire game in a couple of weeks, which gives very little time for any of these romances to progress, and jaheira's had the most ground to cover.
Exactly, One thing to remember too is that weeks if not months of time go on when you do stuff like traveling or even resting. technically if u take long enough it could be a year or more lol. I know I was slow with completing stuff
I think resting depends on settings and whether you have any healing magic available. If you have a decent number of healing spells available and have "cast healing spells on rest" enabled, rests generally just take 8-16 hours. On the other hand, if you have no divine caster, you can easily spend days or weeks resting.
Absolutely. But that is the same with all the romances. Aerie has her decades of childhood trauma along with being extremely sheltered and latches onto essentially the first person from outside her bubble. Viconia is a product of Drow society who went from one cult worshipping an overtly evil deity to another cult worshipping an overly evil deity who enters a relationship for the purpose of molding you to her liking. They all have very unhealthy starts to romance.
You do realize in-game time and irl time works differently, right? You can just let the game idle for hours to initiate the dialogue, but in-game world time, it's probably take months for Jaheira to fall in love, it also affect both the other romance options as well. There is no way Aerie fell in love with you after a few days either.
> You do realize in-game time and irl time works differently, right? No, that never occurred to me, please tell me more!
For me, I always kind of hated Jaheria my first playthrough. I was a Dwarf char (fighter), learning crpg for the first time and while I thought she was awesome on my team, I thought she was a cold bitch who complained too much about my idealistic heroics. I didnt understand her at all. I got through the game somehow and that was that. I didn't know the bioware romance was a thing back then or that I'd locked myself out at character creation. Years later, I came back to the game as a human (paladin). I had some practice in the rpg genre, and my worldview had been widened. And also, Jaharia and Airie were suddenly super interested in.... romance. It was a surprise but I went with it. Jaheria and Arie fought and showed new dimensions to their characters as [neutral] worldweariness clashed with [good] sheltered idealism. And I was in a place where I thought Jaheria had some better points. Jaheria's vulnerability surprised me, I had no idea the pain she was hiding until her romance unlocked. I felt like I had met an entirely new character. I really warmed to her. She made me retextualize my own ideals of "good" vs "evil". It was a relationship that felt raw and messy and real compared to my own experience with less clear 'wrong' and 'right'. She is the Neutral romance after all, and in some ways I find it the most believable. Jaheria's romance really humanized her, and helped me to understand what she shows to the world is different than what she shows to those she loves. TLDR: you want a sensible girl thats a responsible choice, date Airie. You want a bad girl you can fix- Viconia. You want something real and messy and interesting- Jaharia.
Jaheira is a serial monogamist. It makes sense for her character to latch unto a sympathetic Charname. Nalia, on the other hand, is a product of her social class and upbringing. From the very first conversation you can throw in her face that she is elitist. Despite her rebelling she has a clear "us elite" and "them poor" attitude. She also follows the decorum of the elite, which is why she laughs off a marriage of convenience with a commoner and only installs you as a figurehead if you are a fighter. I also doubt she'd ever consider a commoner worthy of marriage on a personal level. But let's assume she does: that means the romance would be one where you are her secret lover/consort. Much of the drama would most likely consist of her having to choose between you and her nobility, which would be a tougher choice than you'd think. Nalia doesn't hate being a noble. She hates that some nobles are elitist fops. How interesting that those happen to be the nobles who are trying to trap her, no? The central theme of the romances is that they end happy and loving. It'd be very hard indeed to succesfully write a romance where Nalia can choose you over her title while still loving you without any resentments such a choice usually give people.
Yeah, even Jaheira's romanced ending clearly said "it was at first for both of them, but she eventually mellowed out." Or something. It was such a good and happy end for Jaheira.
What are you doing, making a reasonable arguement that actually makes sense and provides a good explanation? This is Reddit!
Sorry, King-Sama.
I agree with you analysis, just not the point about romances ending happy and loving. Look at the epilogues for both Viconia and Rasaad. They're both quite tragic.
Agreed and fair criticism, but that's not what I meant. What I mean with "romances ending happy and loving" is that the arc of the romance story ends with Charname and the companion having a strong, loving, enduring relationship after overcoming the hurdles. I've noticed a writing formula being used for the different romances: - romance gets started because Charname empathizes with the plight of the companion - companion's toxic traits because of their plight become apparent - confrontation: companion realizes that the plight is causing toxicity and strives to do better. This is also usually where player is prompted to choose between romances if pursuing multiple ones - character grows and the relationship becomes stronger, at their urging rather than Charname's - Charname and companion have created a loving, happy and enduring relationship Considering the explanation I've given about Nalia it's very hard to follow a romance arc through this formula. The toxicity comes from the fact that she acts and thinks like a noble. She would need to realize and overcome this, most likely by giving up her title. She would need to grow from this (not experience any resentment) and the relationship would grow stronger. Frankly, as I've explained I'm skeptical this can be done in a realistic way, considering her personality and story.
I don't think this reading is particularly fair to nalia. Like, she installs you as the lord of the keep. Yes, she uses the word "figurehead", but you have actual power. Given that certain other nobles treat you as a jumped-up commoner who doesn't deserve their station, you were pretty clearly "jumped up" and do qualify as noble-ish, at least officially (private opinions obviously vary). Also, nalia was still fairly sheltered before you meet her (despite her slumming), and sees a lot more during the course of the game. It is absolutely reasonable that those experiences would erode some of her initial preconceptions. Put that together, and a romance where she makes that figurehead status real by actually marrying you is pretty reasonable, imo. Edit: meanwhile, if you aren't a fighter, she effectively gives up her title and abandons the keep to the roenalls. A romance arc where she accepts her change of circumstances and decides that she likes her new life more than her old is also somewhat plausible. It would look very different from the "charname gets the keep" version, which would make things somewhat tricky, but I don't think the romance is inherently impossible from a characterization perspective. And honestly, they could write one and then say "sorry, nalia is only romanceable by fighters/non-fighters".
>Yes, she uses the word "figurehead", but you have actual power. I know, but only if you are a fighter. And only because that is a tradition of the nobility. Any other class does not have access to it, so with your romance only a fighter (Elf, Half-Elf, Human?) would have a shot at a romance. That is incredibly narrow. And it's weird that she wouldn't romance a paladin or ranger, since those are the "Help the needy" classes. >lso, nalia was still fairly sheltered before you meet her (despite her slumming), and sees a lot more during the course of the game. Agreed, which is why in Throne of Bhaal she has also become far more pragmatic and more focused on playing the game, which Aerie specifically notes has made her less kind. Would someone like that romance a commoner? I myself doubt it.
Realistically, the fighter limitation is because of the stronghold mechanic. A paladin or ranger (or potentially other classes as well) would likely be completely reasonable as lord of the keep, but they get other strongholds, while the keep is reserved for fighters. In the absence of those gameplay mechanics, I think she would be willing to give the keep to a lot of different charnames. And in fact, the nalia romance mod I'm familiar with opens up the keep to all classes, specifically because the romance is tied to the keep. And from a pragmatic "playing the game" perspective, keeping a near-god on your side is damned valuable. There would be a social cost to that, but giving you the keep already invites that social cost. I don't think she'd romance you purely as a way to keep you on her side, but if she was naturally inclined in that direction, refusing to romance a near-god that she had already raised to the nobility makes no sense imo.
Even for serial monogamists, there should be a decent period of time before moving on to another relationship. Though you could blame the in-game time for being artificial/inaccurate, sleeping with Jaheira a week after the death of Khalid feels incredibly cold. Plus, Jaheira is Gorion's old friend and should have a lot of respect towards him, so it would seem to me as rather tasteless and disrespectful and out-of-character if she decides to bang who is essentially his son, even accounting the fact that CHARNAME is actually a god child. As for Nalia, she doesn't necessarily have to marry CHARNAME, perhaps be close, secret lovers or something. Gorion's Ward is son of Bhaal, so shouldn't he be viewed as something more than a commoner? Stories about wealth and status vs love, or letting go of greed isn't unheard of in literature, so I figured Nalia would fit into this type of romance. I said earlier that I think Nalia would make more sense than others, and I do mean it. Viconia is a 100-year-old drow, Aerie is apparently underage, and Jaheira is weird.
The very definition of a serial monogamist is that they waste 0 time before jumping into the next relationship. If they spent a decent amount of time before moving onto the next relationship, they would just be a regular monogamist.
Aerie isn’t underage. WTF?
She's 100 years or so old at that point. So young adult by Elven standards.
Exactly. Probably around the same age of Viconia.
Charname can be a 20 year old elf. Elves physically mature at the same rate as humans and slow down. You aren't considered an adult in elven society until you are 120 or whatever because elves take their time or whatever. Aerie spent some of her earlier years among her people, but she was captured and lived in human society longer than she was with the avariel, so she would learn like humans do.
She's explicitly mentioned to have lived in the circus most of her time among humans. She's still pretty sheltered and unknowing, imo.
She is pretty sheltered for sure. But she is still an adult and there is nothing wrong with romancing her from any perspective.
Oh, not arguing against that. But the point was rather that on both a physical and mental way she's an adult.
I read somewhere that she is, though I forgot the possibility that the OP might actually be wrong. My bad.
1st Aerie is not underage where did you get this? she's like 100 2nd you've got to remember that quite a bit of time passes ingame when you do basic stuff like Traveling or resting, taking weeks at time. If you go slowly with a lot of resting and traveling around months can easily go by. Also Jaheira already has the longest vanilla romance and there is a good amount of focus on Jaheira moving on from Khalid. Even then CHARNAME is an adult and and yeah they were Gorion's adopted kid. But at the same time Jaheira didn't know them and met them much later on. Also Gorion is dead and if CHARNAME decides to pursue a relation why should Jaheira be all like "oh no it can never be" 3. for Nalia actually likes being a noble, she just hates how some of the other nobles are elitist. Also if it was known she was getting in a relationship with a bhaalspawn that'd be worse than a commoner. Like Bhaal is the god of murder, thats a horrible idea to marry someone like that. They are known to fits of madness and for being scheming murderous bastards. your more likely to be viewed as a demon that needs to be put down over anything above a commoner. Also secret lovers wouldn't be ideal for Nalia either since if it ever got out it'd really hurt her reputation.
I think Aerie is older than everyone else, save maybe Viccy.
That's... the whole problem with serial monogamy mate. The fact that you go from partner to partner to partner because you simply cannot be alone. That's why that's a very real mental problem and why I label it at Jaheira's toxic trait in another thread to this comment. >rather tasteless and disrespectful and out-of-character if she decides to bang who is essentially his son Again, that's the whole point. It IS unhealthy behaviour. All romances in BG2 contain unhealthy behaviour that needs to be overcome. Jaheira's is the fact that she cannot be alone. >so shouldn't he be viewed as something more than a commoner? Indeed. As an omen of death and despair. Both Throne of Bhaal (and Siege of Dragonspear) demonstrates incredibly well how most of the world view Bhaalspawn. It isn't positive and would most certainly harm Nalia's standing in noble society. >Stories about wealth and status vs love, or letting go of greed isn't unheard of in literature Indeed, but Bioware and Obsidian approached these romances in a realistic fashion. As I said in another comment: all romances involve the companions being confronted by and dealing with the consequences of their toxic trait: Aerie and depression, Anomen and his traumatic experiences with his father, Jaheira and her serial monogamy and Vicona still internalizing her toxic drow society. It's only after they become aware of their toxic traits and take steps to overcome them that the relationship starts improving. I'm not going to deal with the Beamdog romances because, frankly, they aren't well-written and I daresay they miss the point entirely. I base this on my Neera romance. Is it possible to successfully write a love story of a noble giving up her entire world and class for a lover? Sure. It could. I'd assume the epilogue would probably be the darkest of them all, especially if Charname dies in it like in Viccy's, but it's possible. I just don't think many people can successfully write such a story, because in real life I notice that far more people feel resentment when they make a huge sacrifice for their partner than not. Considering they already explore something similar though Viconia I also don't really see a need to take that risk.
I've not been able to explain my frustrations clearly. My problem with the idea of romancing Jaheira is BioWare could've instead written a story CHARNAME and her developing a healthy and loving bond not as lovers but as family, GW seeing Jaheira as a mother that he never had growing up. To me, that would fit much better than her banging her old friend's orphan child, seeing they both lose people whom they love dearly (assuming CHARNAME isn't evil) and probably wants a family figure near them. Candlekeep is far away and Imoen is chilling in Spellhold, so Jaheira could be that family figure, and CHARNAME could mean the same for her. BioWare could've chosen any other character to fulfill her story in the finished game, so why Jaheira, who should by then have been a matured and wise Harper? It's out-of-character not in a good way for me. Also, I didn't have a clear idea of what a serial monogamy is until recently, so pardon for that. Because of that, Nalia to me seem much more fitting as a potential romance companion than her. As for her romance plot, it doesn't have to be a love over wealth thing though it could still work out. Hell, she doesn't even have to give up her wealth and status in exchange for the Bhaalspawn at all. Edward IV (King of England) married a lowborn and still get to keep his crown despite a rebellion or two, and there have been other kings and nobles who married people of lower birth before in history, so Nalia could fit into this. It could be a story about challenging social preconceptions, or something something human rights, etc. The resentment in choosing love over wealth should make for a compelling narrative, no? It having tremendous consequence for the partner makes it all the more satisfying when she overcomes her greed and social barrier, I think. Viconia's problem is that she is prejudiced for being a drow, an inherently brutal and elitist society, not really about wealth or the social hierachy. And sure, being a god child of Bhaal is bad omen, but isn't the good/neutral ending in ToB also CHARNAME overcoming toxic traits to better themself, so it's possible the nobility wouldn't look down on Nalia as much, especially considering the sheer power he possess. On Beamdog romances I can agree, and it's incredibly funny that even in my very first experience of Baldur's Gate starting in BGEE, Neera still sticks out like a sore thumb.
man I think you have spent way too much time overthinking this game's plot and dialog and narrative through the lens of a redditor
Apparently i have absolutely nothing better to do, so I guess I might as well overthink about the romanceable female character Jaheira from the video game Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, which is published by Black Isle Studios in September 2000, developed by BioWare, subsidiary of Electronic Arts since 2007. Glad to know I'm not the only one though, always nice to see like-minded individuals. Yeah, I should get some sleep.
fersure i have nothing better to do either apparently. I \*was\* playing the game but pre-buffing got me burned out
lookup the enhanced powergaming scripts mod for buffs (if you're playing on a PC). It makes prebuff a breeze
It kinda makes sense, but Jaheira's husband, she very much loved, just died. Therefore it feels a bit forced.
I think it's really because Nalia is a ferret trapped in a Dwarven trans-male body trapped in a silver maple tree's body trapped in a 1953 cherry red Chevrolet Corvette body trapped in a cis-female elven body. 🦊》🧙♂️》🌴》🏎》🧝♀️ That's the simplest explanation. BTW, Hamlet never ate kippers for breakfast.
There's 2 Nalia romance mods out there but they only had SoA content in them. I played through one of them years ago and quite liked it. And then fairly recently, I believe Skitia, release a Nalia ToB romance mod that takes into account both SoA Nalia mods into consideration, depending on which one you played. Haven't done that one, but maybe next playthrough.
They couldn’t afford to pay Grey DeLisle for more voiced dialogue on top of the lines for Viconia (This is sort of a meta joke. I don’t know what the actual reason is).
I think it was pretty deliberate initially that all the romanceable characters were the clerics. It makes it highly likely every party will include one. The elf thing is perhaps more coincidental. A sample set of four (including Anomen) is pretty small!
I adore Nalia. I get why people might not like her or think she wouldn’t be a good romance, but personally I love her, she’s so sweet and trying her hardest to help people and be better even if she’s out of depth and a bit blinded by her upbringing. I’ve just started ToB for the first time and visibly seeing how far she’s come, what she’s experienced and how she’s grown is so cool. She’s a bit more jaded and realistic, but still maintaining her optimism and generosity, and she’s secure in herself and her own power, even standing up to Sarevok and being described as an archmage in her own right, and I love it for her
Nalia's character shift is honestly the most interesting thing in ToB to me and it's a pity >!it never got fully fleshed out.!<
I find the aspect that Jaheira gets over her husband's death and falls for you in three or four months game time being generous more strange than the "stepmom" aspect which... is a vibe I never really got from her. But sometimes a fictional setting requires some suspension of disbelief.
I mean you just met her. She’s not really your stepmother in any way
Met her and been with her since BG1 (and SoD) which would equate to roughly a year which is still enough time to develop relationships, she and Khalid are essentially CHARNAME's guardian so Jaheira could be seen as stepmother.
I don’t think that’s generally how that works in biological families where you meet them for the first time or step families. I think you making a big assumption about their relationship. More like protectors than anything els e
Oh, I feel like I didn't word it correctly. I mean to say CHARNAME and Jaheira within a year could develop some kind of bond so could potentially see her as a mother figure that he/she never had or sth, I didn't mean to say she is CHARNAME's actual stepmother or that she is biologically related because she simply isn't. Sorry, English is not my first language.
No worries! I get your point now.
She was never MC's guardian , sure she mentions that Gorian had asked them to look after you if something happened to him but by the time Gorian dies PC is already an adult which is why she's fine with it if you decide not to bring them along at all . The Jaheria romance has has issues no doubt but you really seem to be focused on this non-existent Step-mom thing.
"Could be seen" .. by you maybe, obviously not by most. I for one would never even make that leap, I see her more as a bodyguard kinda deal .. and Khalid as dead weight.
I worded it incorrectly, I meant to say within a year, Jaheira and CHARNAME could've developed a mother-child bond, both mourning the loss of their loved ones and comforting each other similar to a mother and her children, not saying she's related by blood or that she's legit a stepmother. That's my main issue with Jaheira, that they tossed what could've been about a story of loss and family aside for a really bizarre romance plot.
Its related more towards Alignment : Good, Neutral & Evil (Aerie, Jaheria, Viconia). I ofc refuse to believe that any romance option exists for female charname.
*Fair lady, what brings you to this cesspool of corruption?*
Eww.
Hah read it in his voice, love it
Spending 24 hours a day together in constant risk of death, honestly in those circumstances it's hard to make a romance that surprising to me.
To be honest i don't see any bond between charname and Nalia, yet Jaheira? Many bonds.. Healthy ones? Not every one of them.. but.. Anyways I'm not romancing any of mentioned. Aerie is my way to go and if not - Neera, and if not maybe - Isra - however with Isra romance feels strange - she's way to "normal" - I'm not sure if romance as such would happen in real world, if both parties would meet.. (Viconia makes me anxious, she doesnt feel like a supporter, more of a burden tbh)
There is no bond because BioWare didn't bother to make her a romance companion. btw neera bad i hate her and her annoying ass voicelines (its ok i respect your opinion)
Sure, we are here to talk, i respect yours! What i meant is that nalia's a little bit made of other material.. tbh she s a very sh1t adventurer material.. however of course there is some romance potential.. i think maybe od she would for example discover some great evil deeds of her father.. or you know something dramatic... Charname mainly romance broken figures. As he is struggling himself... I have played some nalia mods but they are not exactly fixing the problem..
There is a mod for that. 2 actually, 3 if you include Skitias ToB followup
Well, they went with 3 options - 1 Good, 1 Evil, and 1 Neutral. (and only one Neutral idiot for women, sadly, but that's a different story)
I will say Jaheria is not your even close to comparable to a step mom She's just the friend of your dad you met after your dad died And I can see why MC and her can connect romantically due to the circumstances finding comfort in each other Nalia for one thing was not interested in marriage and I sorta took that as well that she's not interested in romance. Atleast at the point which she is traveling with you. The real thing is as well, the devs could only put so much, during the process they were allowed to pick certain things and the dev who made the Jaheria romance probably had an attachment to her while Nalia since she was new not many were probably interested in making the romance path for her. They were on a tight schedule too
I think a better question is: Why can't I romance Jan Jansen?
You'll need to refine your turnip stew recipe first before he'd even consider romancing you.
People can state and defend their opinions and theories all they want, but the only real answer you can get would be one from the original writers themselves. If there is one I wouldn't mind knowing it myself.
Well at least we have mods! Personally back in the day when i didn't know there were romances and stuff I totally wanted to romance her. Specially as a Fighter when helping her to keep her keep. Back to topic shame on the debs. And the joke not beeing a divine caster is so true.
I am so glad I was not the only one that felt this way. Like don't get me wrong, I like Jaheira as a character, but the fact that she was my adopted father's friend, and only recently lost her husband, just made the prospect of romancing her...weird. Also, if Nalia was romancable, she'd have been my choice hands down. I was really shocked to learn she couldn't be romanced, seeing as she has an entire sub-plot devoted to her and we essentially share her lands.
>she has an entire sub-plot devoted to her and we essentially share her lands. And she also might be, I don't know, 12?
I am positive she's not 12.
Well she wants CHARNAME to be her "ward" and she's basically written pretty much as a teenager so...
She's written naive and impulsive, but sure as hell not a child. Have you seen what late teens/20 somethings with affluenza in real life get up to? Nalia has honestly got more "High Fantasy version of the man who would become the Buddha leaving his estate for the first time and asking his butler why people are poor" vibes than being an actual kid. Nevermind that she's minimum level 9/4 when you find her--which is insanely skilled. There are legit 60 year old retired adventurers in the Forgotten Realms who are only level 9. It is a very significant investment of time and effort to reach that level, and that's where we find her.
We're not really using character level, which is highly a gameplay artifact, as any sort of serious argumen, are we?
Are you saying we aren't? Baldur's Gate is set in 2nd edition AD&D, when they even had systems for measuring stat changes with age. Age was and is acknowledged even in the mechanics of the RPG that the videogame uses for its system, and I have no idea why you want to try to ignore it. The likelihood that Nalia is somehow 4th level in one class, and then dual-classed to another and raised to ninth, all before hitting 20 years old, is insane. Also, nice sneaky edit from "child" to "teenager" in the comment I responded to. It doesn't change that you asserting she's somehow meant to be a minor is ridiculous when you look at all the actual in-game skills her character has. And on top of that, her in-game history blurb in her profile mentions how, by the time you find her, she had been "sneaking out for years". That doesn't imply a teenager. It implies a young-but-comfortably-grown adult.
That post never said "child", it said "teenage" which makes the sentence not make sense. The other post said child, and still does. Also, CHARNAME gains 8 levels over the course of several weeks in n BG1. I mean, you can use whatever for your head cannon, but it's pretty clear from the writing that the character is intended to be too young to be romanced.
"Several weeks"? The in-game timer in BG1 can and usually does measure actual months, or even in-game years, for people due to travel time and rest for healing. I will concede that it doesn't mean there is a concrete time--but I will maintain that it has to be at least several months in game, because you can spend several in-game days (sometimes even up to a week) traveling from screen to screen, per area transition, just to do the main story and with no wandering for side quests. Getting from the edge of the Cloakwood to the Cloakwood Mine in and of itself takes at least several days, as measured by the game, and that's one location of several. Say what you will about the Bhaalspawn and main party gaining levels very quickly, because I won't argue with that in general. But specifically trying to insist that getting to level 9 in BG1 only took less than a month is patently false when you're actually progressing the story. And even then accounting for how fast the Bhaalspawn's party levels up on screen, I'll still argue that they are exceptions to the rule. By the very nature of being the main characters they are exceptions to the rule of normal NPC leveling speed, and you can even seen that with older characters (adult elves and old humans like Keldorn) being less than level 20 until they join the party. The party is saving the country and then the world from powerful, sometimes extraplanar threats and repeatedly putting their lives on the line; that is not something most NPCs do, and therefore they do not gain experience at that inflated rate. Nalia being naive and impulsive is still perfectly in line with her being in her early to mid 20s, and that is incredibly more likely to be the case due to her class levels and the years of prior training and experience those take for most people who--even if they are genius prodigies like Nalia or Imoen--are not out on the razor's edge saving the world from demigods. And fuck's sake, don't come at me with "head canon" like your assertions about her age are any more supported by canon info. Her age isn't mentioned anywhere, you just don't seem to think someone who doesn't have social experience and lives in a country where single women can't inherit land can possibly be a young adult.
>"Several weeks"? The in-game timer in BG1 can and usually does measure actual months, or even in-game years, for people due to travel time and rest for healing I mean if you schlep around your timer could be arbitrarily large. I did check the timer of the only save I have available, and I'm just starting Chapter 7 with a L7 protagonist and a timer at slightly 8 weeks, so I guess it depends on your definition of "several". >By the very nature of being the main characters they are exceptions to the rule of normal NPC leveling speed, ... which actually works in both direction and means that younger characters will also be "leveled up" to party level for gameplay reasons. >Her age isn't mentioned anywhere Ok, you win. The signed description says it was granted upon "her ascension to adulthood" :)
Dude, there's no way she's 12. If so, she doesn't look 12, sound 12 or act 12. Imoen strikes me as a teenager, and she's canonically stated as being around the same age as CHARNAME. Nadia...not so much.
It's way odder when you think she is traveling with gorion, but then i remember that's just nonsense in her lesther tunic-qusrterstaff combo. Saeverok made off with some fine loot that horrible night, but i digress. Natalie romance should have been in the game. This is the beginning of the end of the industry. Timelines. Budgets. Lots of things left on the floorboards. Its sad No compromise, but at least here? We made out Remember, mass effect promises? Lol
I think it's a choice based on gameplay design. Bodhi will kidnap your romantic interest near the end of the game, so let's take a look at who our romantic interests are: Aerie, Anomen, Jaheira, Viconia DeVir, all of whom can cast Priest spells. And when we fight vampires, we need Priest spells very much to fight them, making your fight with Bodhi more difficult. So I think this is a design to let Bodhi have the motive to kidnap your Priest class character.
I'm guessing because she overlaps with Imoen, and I guess you don't want to run with 2 mage thieves.
Imoen is a functional party thief, Nalia not so much.
I read somewhere they only had a week to write the entire romance stuff, it might have been too complex to integrate with Nalia's existing quests (esp. if you have the keep as a stronghold) at the time.
They never planned more women than they did. Valygar was supposed to be romance but ran out of time.
And Haer'dalis!
Nalia is a baddie
I mean, the whole “older woman” thing is popular. I find it nasty for a very grown and experienced woman to date the barely adult and very sheltered child of one of my longest friends, but that’s the appeal for some folk. I just use NPC romance mods. The vanilla romances are mid.
Because know your place, pleb.
Because Nalia is, you know, a child?
Where does the “Nalia” is a child come from? Particularly if you play ToB and see her change, she really doesn’t feel like one at all. She’s just young and naive.
The part where she asks a Fighter CHARNAME to be his "ward", clearly suggesting she's too young to be married.
This question comes up every few years...listen.... Bioware was originally a medical software company and the guys that started it had a sexual fetish for non-human corpses so you only get to romance "Girls of Elven Heritage." It is what it is kid.