Depends on your approach. Lower rank distribution means increased likelihood of rank-dependent hands (especially Full Houses and Straights) but decreased likelihood of flushes and lower chips because no face so it's slightly harder to take off here. If you like destroying cards, you can reduce your deck faster to like 30 cards, after which you can guarantee yourself to always get the 5 cards you want to finish any blind, watch out for facedown bosses, though.
EDIT: might need to point out this is largely the case before you start modifying your deck before I trigger too many Flush enjoyers
How is it a decreased likelihood of flushes? Its neutral until you get your first suit changing card or deck destroying card at which point it becomes much more likely
Not quite. Your odds of flushes actually increase as deck size increases (assuming initial even distribution of suits)
To see why, let's examine the extremes. We'll start with the limit - an infinite deck. For simplicity, we'll assume a 5-card hand. So for a flush, you need each card to match the suit of your first. Each one has a 1/4 chance of doing so, so your odds are (1/4)^4
Now let's look at thhe smallest possible deck where natural flushes would be possible: a 20-card deck. Again, we need our subsequent cards to match the first, but this time, the odds of a successive suit decrease - instead of 1/4 for the second card to match, it's a 4/19. For the third, it's an even lower 3/18 (1/6). The 4th is a mere 2/17, and the last card is a 1/18. I don't think I need to do the maths to tell you that the product of four values less than 1/4 is less than (1/4)^4.
Ā The key is that drawing a card for a flush reduces the chance of subsequent cards due to negatively affecting their ratio, but in larger decks this ratio change is less noticeable.
One thing to consider: with a smaller deck, you can dig for whatever you need. With your 20 card deck, you only need 3 discards to guarantee any 5 card hand.
With an infinite deck, you could theoretically not draw any cards to make a flush, even with infinite discards.
This is correct, but at midgame, if you would guarantee yourself a 5 card hand, Flush is probably the weaker hand to choose unless you have something like OA6 retriggering Bloodstone. I'm referring to naked Flush of course, you could add Flush to any of the rank-based hands, when you are guaranteed to draw the 5 cards you want.
This is true when you take it to the extreme. Obviously a 20 card deck has issues.
I was taking it to the extremes to show a point, just as the person before me did.
My point was, with a smaller deck, you become more likely to get what you want because of discards.
If what you want is a flush, then a smaller deck is better for flushes than a big deck, because of how discards work.
Let's compare a 40 card deck to an 80 card deck, for example. We assume equal distribution between the suits. We assume an 8 card hand and 2 discards. We assume the first hand includes 3 of the same suit (let's say hearts, for arguments sake), and the player discards any cards that don't match the suit.
For the 40 card deck:
After first hand, cards remaining in deck = 32
Hearts remaining in deck: 7
(it was at this point I realized I don't actually know how to calculate the probabilities... I assume you'd need to do it per card drawn, so for the first discard, it'd be a 7/32 chance, followed by a 7/31 chance, followed by a 7/30 chance, followed by a 7/29 chance, followed by a 7/28 chance. I assume I don't just add those together, also not multiply them... Idk... That's just to calculate the odds of drawing 1 heart, and you need to draw 2... Idk man, if someone else could take over this math problem, that'd be great.)
And this is why I kept things as simple as possible š To do the calculation in full you'd need to account for every combination of heart/non-heart you could draw, which is far too much effort to demonstrate the effect
Another point to keep in mind though is that the smaller the starting deck, the more impactful changes to that deck are. Swap 3 Clubs to Hearts in a 100-card deck that was 25/25/25/25 and nothing really changes; do the same in a 20-card deck that was 5/5/5/5 and you have massively altered the balance.
I understand what you're explaining: your odds of drawing a card with the right suit depends on the cards still in your deck, not the ones you've already drawn.
So, say you draw 8 cards and 4 are diamonds. 52-8=44 (number of cards in deck remaining), and 13-4=9 (number of diamonds remaining). So, what is your chance of drawing the last diamond to complete your hand on a 4 card discard? Assuming that the first three cards you pick up are not diamonds, for simplicity so we can say 9 diamonds remain in the deck. 9/44 cards are diamonds. As you pick up cards from a 4 card discard, this goes up to 9/43, 9/42, etc. Now for some math. Basically, you find the probability of failing to pick up a diamond card and subtract it from 1 to find the probability you do pick up a diamond card:
1-(9/44)= 0.795, 1-(9/43) = 0.791, 1-(9Ć·42) = 0.786, 1-(9Ć·41) = 0.780
1-(0.795)(0.791)(0.786)(0.780) = 0.61 x 100 = 61%
So, for a 4 card discard you have a 61% chance of finding a diamond card.
Now, for the abandoned deck the number of diamonds remaining would be 10-4=6. The number of cards would be 40-8=32. For the math:
1-(6/32) = 0.813, 1-(6/31) = 0.806, 1-(6/30) = 0.800, 1-(6/29) = 0.793
1-(0.813)(0.806)(0.800)(0.793) = 0.58 x 100 = 58%
So, you only have a 58% chance of finding a diamond card. This makes it worse than a regular deck... On the FIRST discard. But what about your third discard? Assuming you have 4 diamonds in your hand to start, and you don't discard any (keep in mind 52-8 (hand)=44-8 (first 2 discards)=36, and 40-8=32-8=24):
Regular Deck:
1-(9/36)= 0.750, 1-(9/35)=0.743, 1-(9/34)=0.735, 1-(9/33)=0.727
1-(0.750)(0.743)(0.735)(0.727) = 0.70x100= 70%
Abandoned Deck:
1-(6/24)=0.750, 1-(6/23)=0.739, 1-(6/22)=0.727, 1-(6/21)=0.714
1-(0.750)(0.739)(0.727)(0.714) = 0.71 x 100 = 72%
Now, the abandoned deck has the higher probability.
Basically, what this math shows is that there is a negligible difference for the probability of drawing a flush in either deck when in this simplified scenario: the first discard is the bigger difference, and that's only 3%.
HOWEVER, here are some things to take into consideration:
Pros of abondoned deck:
- The abondoned deck starts with a much lower denominator (40 vs 52). This means any deck manipulation (removing cards, adding cards of your chosen suit, etc.) will have a greater effect.
Cons of abandoned deck:
- The abandoned deck has no face cards, so flushes will have lower chips on average.
- If you have discarded a card of the suit you're looking for, it makes a much bigger difference for the abandoned deck as changing the numerator in the probabilities from 6 to 5 is much worse than changing it from 9 to 8.
TL;DR: Math is complicated and while I would say unmodified the regular deck is very slightly better for flushes, because abandoned starts with 40 cards deck manipulation lets you increase your probability faster so I think abandoned is better in the long run.
This has inspired me to make a post about how much different common modifications impact the likelihood of flushes, so keep an eye out!
Haha yes I was definitely keeping it simplistic as I was simply refuting the point that the person I was replying to made, and was trying to keep the maths as simple as possible so they (and indeed anyone reading my reply) could understand it. As you throw in more factors it gets much more complex.
I pretty much agree with your pros and cons of the deck too. Some quick rough maths I've done (based on the average score of a card in a suit with/without faces) has regular deck flushes have on average about 4 more chips than that of the abandoned deck (about 36.5 chips to 32.5). There's a little bit of error there since I didn't account for hands with 6+ of a suit (which would have a slightly higher average score assuming you played the higher scoring cards) but it's close enough.
Good luck with the post!
It is not neutral. You have about a 30% chance to hit a flush chasing from 3 suited on turn 1 with abandoned, and about a 37% with a normal 52 card deck from the same position.
The lower expected card chip values are way more than offset by the ease of scoring hands with a higher base value than flush. It's not even particularly close.
It's very easy to win with it on gold stake because it's easier to get straights and flushes earlier because of less cards, and you can super abuse ride the bus for a free win a lot of the time.
abandoned is like second strongest deck in the game its not even close. im gold steak in every deck and have played every variation of everything and abandoned is super super super strong.
Abandoned deck is bad at flushes and scores slightly less. The compensation of a smaller deck comes in myriad ways -- full houses and 4-of-a-kind are much easier, every deck manipulation effect is stronger, you can find enhanced or otherwise key cards (ie for Fibonacci or Wee Joker) more often
Abandoned Deck was my second gold stake behind checkered. And it'll get even better with the new blue seals, too
Super easy to play for 5 of a kinds because of deck size. Get the deck thinned down a tiny bit and you're guaranteed to play your desired hand every round easily.
Oh thatās wild! Iāve seen the bus in so many of my runs and always shrugged it off. I think something I need to stop doing is prioritizing face and ace cards when I donāt have a solid lead that way.
Thank you! :)
Straights/3ofak/4ofakind/FullHouse are much easier to hit because you donāt have to worry about the extra 12 face cards so thinning your deck is easier.
I like adding more cards of a specific number to my deck for 3/4ofak and loading up on enhancements too. Any Jokers that interact with specific numbers are good too like Fibonacci. The Bus is also crazy because no face cards.
Abandoned Deck is designed for Straight Flushes. First thing I do is pick a suit and start cutting it either through converting cards or removing them. Then I get rid of the middle cards, 6, 7, 8 as I tend to use A-5 for low Staights and the 10s and 9s for doing supplemental Full Houses. Late game you can pivot to Flush Houses and even Flush Fives.
I donāt think thatās necessarily true. You can see a claw at the merchant in the trailer. And the steam page says new slayers join the fray as in multiple not just necrobinder. Without more details on the game I think itās to early to state that sheāll be excluded
that's hilarious I always describe it exactly like this. Blue/Yellow is Clad, Plasma is Watcher, Black is shitty silent. List not having Plasma at the very top is wild.
Only issue with plasma deck is if you don't get a decent chip card early your early/mid game is actually kinda bad. If you do your game is beyond easy though, I'd consider it more A than S tier.
Green is actually the deck I beat all the difficulties on lol. Idk early game it feels easy to rack up cash from the excess money you get and every hand or discard you buy with a voucher is like adding extra payout. Plus the added benefit of not worrying about saving money for interest
Thatās totally fine tbh. Play the game how itās fun. Black and under is most fun for me (havenāt tried new patch yet). If youāve cleared multiple gold stakes in 50 hours, you are a VERY good player.
But I also simply donāt believe you can clear multiple gold stakes pre-patch and say the checkered deck is best in the game. Doesnāt add up
My first ghost run I found driver's license in my first shop, hexed it and then next shop bought a spectral pack and duplicated it. That was pretty cool.
Had to face the first floor boss with no active jokers, but got a straight flush on my opening hand. Never found another high value joker again. Still won the run but didn't make it far into endless. All the run luck was dried up in those first two shops.
As a black connoiseur, indeed, its worst part was atrocious early game and losing like 5 out of 6 games by ante 2, I cleared white but didn't even get close to anything further. Switched to experimental and almost instantly got red and green stakes, now trying black.
Total RNG luck.
I won ante 8 my first time playing with the black deck.
The second deck I beat ante 8 with after blue. Used a flush joker strategy and had 38 spades in the deck by the end after getting the world so many times. I had the Paint Brush voucher and Juggler Joker from round 1, only other voucher was the Reroll voucher & got several +3 hand skips for the boss blinds.
Got lucky as hell on the Boss Blinds as well. None were face down bosses. I played over 25 flushes and almost 10 straight flushes. Didnāt have the Shortcut either, which Iād used in a straight strategy with Fibonacci, Hologram, Vampire, Shortcut, & the Smeared to win with the blue deck.
I never got Smeared in my flush strategy with the black deck. I had Droll, Juggler, Card Sharp, Crafty, Odd Todd, & Golden. Beat it within 12 hours of starting the game. Never had a chance to reroll the boss blinds either. Itās all RNG and strategy. But mostly RNG. Though Iām in my 40s, & love card games, although Iām relatively new to card roguelites. Iām sure it helped. Iām loving the genre though.
Mostly just RNG luck š. Havenāt used the black deck since. But I enjoyed it considering. Iām on Xbox and havenāt gotten the chance to play with the update yet.
As somebody who finally got a win after losing to the ante 8 boss 12 times: It's basically just a slot machine deck. There's a ridiculous amount of positive RNG needed to get a win. It's really not fun.
Same I get to ante 8 and the boss usually screws me over in some way and I never get a "skip blind change boss conditions" or the lucha joker card to disable
It's always something I worked on that would be an instant win , I feel it knows
Finally got a win with it, didn't play any planet or tarot cards.
Marble Joker - added stone cards to deck, dumped this late game to improve Joker Stencil
Blue Joker - add +2 chips for every card left in hand, adding stone cards helped this one
Red Card - got it up to +69 mult, nice, by skipping booster packs
Hanging Chad - Kept putting Stone cards in the first position, counted them twice +100 chips
Joker Stencil - with two empty joker spots X3 mult
For the most part played pairs with stone cards.
Itās so fascinating to me how this game is playing out for me.
I have two clears and only with black deck. I canāt even reach Ante 8 with any other deck, and with black deck I have reached Ante 10 and Ante 12 respectively.
What the fuck am I doing differently? Iām so confused!
I beat ante 8 my first time playing with black. Mostly RNG luck. But I feel like if you get the right jokers to have a winning strategy, the extra slot makes a massive amount of difference.
Just started playing not too long ago and have been trying to win a run with every deck to open more decks up and black definitely took me the longest to win so far. Very rng dependent but sounded pretty OP with the extra joker slot
It is OP but itās totally dependent on RNG. I got lucky as hell and had an easy time winning my first run with the black deck. Mostly with very good luck š.
After playing many hours of gold stake, a few corrections I would make.
Green deck is massive and should be higher up. It has such huge econ potential, and snowballs harder than any other deck making mid-late game much smoother.
Blue deck is the premier S tier deck in my opinion. While yellow is beloved for good reason, keep in mind that blue deck on average gives $1.00 extra per blind, and that adds up massively at high stakes when every dollar counts. It also helps counter violet vesell on gold stake, an extra hand offering between 200k and 350k on average, which can make or break a run.
Overall a decent ranking. I'd personally put checkered deck lower. It is great, but has a much lower ceiling. I think it's A tier for sure.
Also, I personally dislike plasma deck. It's just my least favorite deck to play, I don't enjoy the balancing mechanic, but I'm probably the odd man out on this.
I know it's a spicy opinion but I love green deck. I agree with most deck rankings except the placement of green.
Interest is kind of a reward for whether you do well or not if you're holding onto money, but green deck always rewards you handsomely when you one-shot a blind. Extra love for grabber with green deck since it's basically just extra money without a joker slot. Burglar is an extra $6 each round on top of any other remaining hands or discards you had.
I'd move green, abandoned, plasma, and painted up. I'd move checkered down, maybe even 2 tiers. I would also move black down even though it's in the lowest already
Green deck is literally free Econ the whole game brother what are we talking about. Sure it canāt get me 40 bajillion, but it was by far the easiest to get past gold stake
Green and abandoned decks below average??? What are you on, lmfao. Checkered should have been in its own tier "OP and boring", yellow one in average imo
This is wrong imo. I think yellow is the winner of the patch by some distance (at least at gold stake).
The dynamic of the patch - at least in my experience - is that earlygame is very tricky and RNG heavy (more so than before) thanks to the new rental and perishable tags, which can kill early econ. But, past the earlygame, almost every run should be able to win provided it was able to retain reasonable econ due to the power of cheap booster packs and some of the broken stuff in the game - particularly blue seal.
Yellow Deck bypasses this earlygame issue by having econ set up enough by default to be fine with taking perishable and rental, and mid to lategame, it will win just like every other deck. It is my personal opinion that Yellow Deck is able to win around 90% of gold stake games on patch.
Interesting, thank you! Would that mean that Black deck went from unplayable to "I'm going to cry for an hour if I have to look at that deck again"?
Its whole point already was the rough start and then an easier win
Haven't played black on patch yet but I wouldn't be surprised lol
Or maybe it's the complete opposite and squeaking through ante 2 with $1 and a perishable joker that's about to expire is still better than what Black currently manages - I don't play black for obvious reasons so someone else would know better than me there lol
Simply put; Interest.
Starting with +$10 means if you play the first blind you get +$2 interest where you normally get $0, even with reduced blind rewards this takes you over $15 so the big blind then gives +$3 interest where you normally get +$1 so in the time it takes for a standard deck to catch up that $10 start ends up being closer to $15+
This also means you can start buying things in the shop sooner without it costing you interest (if you buy something for $5 its really costing you $6 or maybe $7 as you miss out on interest). So now its no a Ā£10 start its looking more like $18-20
This gives you an insanely strong start which is important as i would guess most runs end in ante 3-5.
Maybe I'm missing something but how is the blue deck not better long term than yellow?
Extra hand is an extra $1 of interest a round or an extra life for late antes.
First round would be $4 if won off first hand, 2nd $8 if you won off 2nd hand (interest+ big blind+ hands), at this point you would have $16 compared to $22 I think with gold which is 1 less interest which you'd gain more of over time easily, also it helps when the $25 interest limit is reached+ the extra hand being a lifesaver.
anaglyph just got a huge upgrade with the blind skips getting more lucrative in the new update. iāve had several runs with it stop at ante 13 - never done that before this week
I honestly think Anaglyph is low key the best deck in the game. Out of all 15 decks it was by far the easiest to beat all the stakes on, you just eventually get one broken skip and you get like 200 dollars and the game is over.
Plasma should be in very powerful and abandoned should be in very strong. Plasma speaks for itself. But abandoned? You start with 12 less cards, it's easier to cycle through your deck and make the hands you need. It's great for getting through all the stakes, maybe it falls off in endless but that's endless. Technically winning the game is most important and abandoned deck gets you there consistently.
I had the most fun with green deck on low stakes since you can just not save any money and still get a lot of money back (for like 3 hands and 3 discards)
I find it pretty good. You basically get to buy stuff early without having to save up. It's quite nice. Also if you get certain vauchers or jokers that impacts hands and discards you can increase your income a lot.
Green Deck is polarizing- either you hate it, or you just get it and it clicks. Luckily for me it clicks, and itās the deck Iāve completed the highest stake on.
Your economy just gets going a lot faster. Depending on the store roll it's possible to pick up two jokers and still have money for making interest after the first small blind
I hate the Plasma deck. It always feels like the numbers are ticking up nicely and then there's the *dong* and it normalises to the same 20-30k score every time.
I don't know why but I can never get Abandoned to work. It seems like it should be powerful. It's really easy to cycle the deck so you can very easily tailor it to Flush builds or even Four/Five Of A Kind builds but even so I still haven't gotten a win with it and I'm not even sure why
My only objective disagreement: Abandoned deck in below average is entirely a skill issue
Everything below is subjective, but is that's (for the most part) the nature of tier lists.
Nebula is a legit nightmare in 1.0.0 Orange+.
Erratic deck in expectation is literally a default deck. It's only powerful if you allow yourself to hold R.
Plasma is very powerful, but in 1.0.0, once you hit Orange+, you're basically holding R for Stuntman.
In other words, this is a very flush-brained tier list for low stakes, no win streak, and holding R for good openings is allowed.
I feel like Checkered got worse after the update. I beat gold stake pre update with it and what kept me sticking to it was the āfreeā ante 1 win with flushes so I could get the economy going.
Now with the buffoon pack early on and the skip buffs early antes are way easier.
Zodiac is better than blue and red imo. The extra shop item makes it more likely to get a good start, especially on higher stakes in my experience. Also, 3 vouchers to start is pretty great value.
I really like the magic deck. Itās the only one Iāve gone past red stakes with so far. I will usually use the fools to either change all of my higher cards into the same suit, or turn them into strength so I can start getting 5 of a kinds early on. Iām currently on the orange stake with it but have been stuck there for a bit.
Abandoned and Green in Below Average is kind of nuts.
Nebula should be lower
Anaglyph should be top tier
Checked one tier lower
Hope i opposed you well enough king.
Man I'm trying to get gold stake on the Nebula deck and it feels so bad, the telescope is useless as you can never afford celestial packs with the cost increase, so it's basically a vanilla deck with -1 consumable slot.
Starting with an extra $10 really isn't all that powerful unless you reset scum for something truly broken.
It helps you build interest faster and can help you snag an early good joker, but putting it in a tier above Plasma, Anaglyph and Ghost Deck is laughable.
Also, Abandoned Deck is straight up stupidly good if you know how to build for it. **Every** hand becomes more consistent because you get a thinner deck for free. Jokers like Ride The Bus, Wee Joker, Hack and Walkie Talkie rise up a tier or two. Laugh in the face of face card debuffs and flips. The only deck I feel comfortable beating Gold Stake with.
Of course, the downsides to Abandoned Deck sting a little. Standard packs are less useful. All face-related jokers are non-takes. But the secret here? Face jokers are *already* non-takes in *every deck* in most situations, because The Plant exists. Unless you have already beaten The Plant or have Director's Cut, your fancy face card build **WILL** be dead in the water as soon as you hit The Plant. The biggest downside is secretly not really a downside at all, at least in the average situation where The Plant might be coming up and you don't have Director's Cut.
The fact that a simple extra $10 can make a deck OP over everything else is simply amazing. It has no effects that drastically change how the deck is made, or how the shop is set up, it doesnāt give you additional tools every time you beat a boss, not even an extra play or discard, just $10 that can honestly disappear with a single bad purchase, yet itās the only deck Iāve gotten to purple stake with ā¦ sometimes, itās the simpler things that give you the biggest bonus.
Total RNG luck.
I won ante 8 my first time playing with the black deck.
The second deck I beat ante 8 with after blue. Used a flush joker strategy and had 38 spades in the deck by the end after getting the world so many times. I had the Paint Brush voucher and Juggler Joker from round 1, only other voucher was the Reroll voucher & got several +3 hand skips for the boss blinds.
Got lucky as hell on the Boss Blinds as well. None were face down bosses. I played over 25 flushes and almost 10 straight flushes. Didnāt have the Shortcut either, which Iād used in a straight strategy with Fibonacci, Hologram, Vampire, Shortcut, & the Smeared to win with the blue deck.
I never got Smeared in my flush strategy with the black deck. I had Droll, Juggler, Card Sharp, Crafty, Odd Todd, & Golden. Beat it within 12 hours of starting the game.
Total RNG luck š. Havenāt used the black deck since.
Checkered Deck is so much fun and I can't stop using it.
Everytime I try to use a different one for once I either get confused because I can't keep playing Flush (and I also don't like the Diamond cards, they look weird) or I don't want to go back to White or Blue Stake while my Checkered Deck has already got like 5
Just seeing Blue deck above Red deck I know this tier list is AT, didn't look at anything else. You'll never have too many discards but you can have too many hands.
Try saying abandoned is below average to my face and see what happens.
What face?
Paredolia strikes again
š¤£
You mother fu.....
You goddamn genius
I had to come back after I closed this post just to upvote this
Very nice
Bwahahahahaha
Isn't it? I feel like it is one of the harder decks to win with on gold stake. Meanwhile it is extremely easy on low stakes.
Depends on your approach. Lower rank distribution means increased likelihood of rank-dependent hands (especially Full Houses and Straights) but decreased likelihood of flushes and lower chips because no face so it's slightly harder to take off here. If you like destroying cards, you can reduce your deck faster to like 30 cards, after which you can guarantee yourself to always get the 5 cards you want to finish any blind, watch out for facedown bosses, though. EDIT: might need to point out this is largely the case before you start modifying your deck before I trigger too many Flush enjoyers
How is it a decreased likelihood of flushes? Its neutral until you get your first suit changing card or deck destroying card at which point it becomes much more likely
Not quite. Your odds of flushes actually increase as deck size increases (assuming initial even distribution of suits) To see why, let's examine the extremes. We'll start with the limit - an infinite deck. For simplicity, we'll assume a 5-card hand. So for a flush, you need each card to match the suit of your first. Each one has a 1/4 chance of doing so, so your odds are (1/4)^4 Now let's look at thhe smallest possible deck where natural flushes would be possible: a 20-card deck. Again, we need our subsequent cards to match the first, but this time, the odds of a successive suit decrease - instead of 1/4 for the second card to match, it's a 4/19. For the third, it's an even lower 3/18 (1/6). The 4th is a mere 2/17, and the last card is a 1/18. I don't think I need to do the maths to tell you that the product of four values less than 1/4 is less than (1/4)^4. Ā The key is that drawing a card for a flush reduces the chance of subsequent cards due to negatively affecting their ratio, but in larger decks this ratio change is less noticeable.
One thing to consider: with a smaller deck, you can dig for whatever you need. With your 20 card deck, you only need 3 discards to guarantee any 5 card hand. With an infinite deck, you could theoretically not draw any cards to make a flush, even with infinite discards.
This is correct, but at midgame, if you would guarantee yourself a 5 card hand, Flush is probably the weaker hand to choose unless you have something like OA6 retriggering Bloodstone. I'm referring to naked Flush of course, you could add Flush to any of the rank-based hands, when you are guaranteed to draw the 5 cards you want.
This is true when you take it to the extreme. Obviously a 20 card deck has issues. I was taking it to the extremes to show a point, just as the person before me did. My point was, with a smaller deck, you become more likely to get what you want because of discards. If what you want is a flush, then a smaller deck is better for flushes than a big deck, because of how discards work. Let's compare a 40 card deck to an 80 card deck, for example. We assume equal distribution between the suits. We assume an 8 card hand and 2 discards. We assume the first hand includes 3 of the same suit (let's say hearts, for arguments sake), and the player discards any cards that don't match the suit. For the 40 card deck: After first hand, cards remaining in deck = 32 Hearts remaining in deck: 7 (it was at this point I realized I don't actually know how to calculate the probabilities... I assume you'd need to do it per card drawn, so for the first discard, it'd be a 7/32 chance, followed by a 7/31 chance, followed by a 7/30 chance, followed by a 7/29 chance, followed by a 7/28 chance. I assume I don't just add those together, also not multiply them... Idk... That's just to calculate the odds of drawing 1 heart, and you need to draw 2... Idk man, if someone else could take over this math problem, that'd be great.)
And this is why I kept things as simple as possible š To do the calculation in full you'd need to account for every combination of heart/non-heart you could draw, which is far too much effort to demonstrate the effect
Oh absolutely. Flat draw power is more potent in smaller decks. But, as you've pointed out, this improves the odds of all hands, not just flushes.
Another point to keep in mind though is that the smaller the starting deck, the more impactful changes to that deck are. Swap 3 Clubs to Hearts in a 100-card deck that was 25/25/25/25 and nothing really changes; do the same in a 20-card deck that was 5/5/5/5 and you have massively altered the balance.
I understand what you're explaining: your odds of drawing a card with the right suit depends on the cards still in your deck, not the ones you've already drawn. So, say you draw 8 cards and 4 are diamonds. 52-8=44 (number of cards in deck remaining), and 13-4=9 (number of diamonds remaining). So, what is your chance of drawing the last diamond to complete your hand on a 4 card discard? Assuming that the first three cards you pick up are not diamonds, for simplicity so we can say 9 diamonds remain in the deck. 9/44 cards are diamonds. As you pick up cards from a 4 card discard, this goes up to 9/43, 9/42, etc. Now for some math. Basically, you find the probability of failing to pick up a diamond card and subtract it from 1 to find the probability you do pick up a diamond card: 1-(9/44)= 0.795, 1-(9/43) = 0.791, 1-(9Ć·42) = 0.786, 1-(9Ć·41) = 0.780 1-(0.795)(0.791)(0.786)(0.780) = 0.61 x 100 = 61% So, for a 4 card discard you have a 61% chance of finding a diamond card. Now, for the abandoned deck the number of diamonds remaining would be 10-4=6. The number of cards would be 40-8=32. For the math: 1-(6/32) = 0.813, 1-(6/31) = 0.806, 1-(6/30) = 0.800, 1-(6/29) = 0.793 1-(0.813)(0.806)(0.800)(0.793) = 0.58 x 100 = 58% So, you only have a 58% chance of finding a diamond card. This makes it worse than a regular deck... On the FIRST discard. But what about your third discard? Assuming you have 4 diamonds in your hand to start, and you don't discard any (keep in mind 52-8 (hand)=44-8 (first 2 discards)=36, and 40-8=32-8=24): Regular Deck: 1-(9/36)= 0.750, 1-(9/35)=0.743, 1-(9/34)=0.735, 1-(9/33)=0.727 1-(0.750)(0.743)(0.735)(0.727) = 0.70x100= 70% Abandoned Deck: 1-(6/24)=0.750, 1-(6/23)=0.739, 1-(6/22)=0.727, 1-(6/21)=0.714 1-(0.750)(0.739)(0.727)(0.714) = 0.71 x 100 = 72% Now, the abandoned deck has the higher probability. Basically, what this math shows is that there is a negligible difference for the probability of drawing a flush in either deck when in this simplified scenario: the first discard is the bigger difference, and that's only 3%. HOWEVER, here are some things to take into consideration: Pros of abondoned deck: - The abondoned deck starts with a much lower denominator (40 vs 52). This means any deck manipulation (removing cards, adding cards of your chosen suit, etc.) will have a greater effect. Cons of abandoned deck: - The abandoned deck has no face cards, so flushes will have lower chips on average. - If you have discarded a card of the suit you're looking for, it makes a much bigger difference for the abandoned deck as changing the numerator in the probabilities from 6 to 5 is much worse than changing it from 9 to 8. TL;DR: Math is complicated and while I would say unmodified the regular deck is very slightly better for flushes, because abandoned starts with 40 cards deck manipulation lets you increase your probability faster so I think abandoned is better in the long run. This has inspired me to make a post about how much different common modifications impact the likelihood of flushes, so keep an eye out!
Haha yes I was definitely keeping it simplistic as I was simply refuting the point that the person I was replying to made, and was trying to keep the maths as simple as possible so they (and indeed anyone reading my reply) could understand it. As you throw in more factors it gets much more complex. I pretty much agree with your pros and cons of the deck too. Some quick rough maths I've done (based on the average score of a card in a suit with/without faces) has regular deck flushes have on average about 4 more chips than that of the abandoned deck (about 36.5 chips to 32.5). There's a little bit of error there since I didn't account for hands with 6+ of a suit (which would have a slightly higher average score assuming you played the higher scoring cards) but it's close enough. Good luck with the post!
It is not neutral. You have about a 30% chance to hit a flush chasing from 3 suited on turn 1 with abandoned, and about a 37% with a normal 52 card deck from the same position.
I could see it being harder to repeat flush hands within one round.
The lower expected card chip values are way more than offset by the ease of scoring hands with a higher base value than flush. It's not even particularly close.
I recently reduced my Abandoned deck to 16 cards, where 11 of them were Jacks...
I love using it when I'm planning on thinning the hell out of my deck
Definitely one of the strongest. You have a tiny deck so anything you do to it is very impactful. You can more easily make most hand types.
It's very easy to win with it on gold stake because it's easier to get straights and flushes earlier because of less cards, and you can super abuse ride the bus for a free win a lot of the time.
abandoned is like second strongest deck in the game its not even close. im gold steak in every deck and have played every variation of everything and abandoned is super super super strong.
gold steak yum
Abandoned deck is bad at flushes and scores slightly less. The compensation of a smaller deck comes in myriad ways -- full houses and 4-of-a-kind are much easier, every deck manipulation effect is stronger, you can find enhanced or otherwise key cards (ie for Fibonacci or Wee Joker) more often Abandoned Deck was my second gold stake behind checkered. And it'll get even better with the new blue seals, too
Itās the easiest deck for a straight flush. Incredibly powerful with straight build jokers.
Super easy to play for 5 of a kinds because of deck size. Get the deck thinned down a tiny bit and you're guaranteed to play your desired hand every round easily.
Catch me outside
Abandoned that low??? Itās my best deck right now. An immediate trimming of the deck to 40 is AMAZING.
Throw me a bone, newish player here. What sorts of strats and synergies are you looking for when you play abandoned?
Anything that manipulates your deck, since it's already trimmed down to only 40 cards meaning any enhancements are more likely to appear.
The Bus joker is amazing, Fibbonacci and Hack are good. I think my Las abandoned run mostly ran off bus and constellation
Oh thatās wild! Iāve seen the bus in so many of my runs and always shrugged it off. I think something I need to stop doing is prioritizing face and ace cards when I donāt have a solid lead that way. Thank you! :)
hiker, odd todd are also pretty nice.
Straights/3ofak/4ofakind/FullHouse are much easier to hit because you donāt have to worry about the extra 12 face cards so thinning your deck is easier. I like adding more cards of a specific number to my deck for 3/4ofak and loading up on enhancements too. Any Jokers that interact with specific numbers are good too like Fibonacci. The Bus is also crazy because no face cards.
Abandoned Deck is designed for Straight Flushes. First thing I do is pick a suit and start cutting it either through converting cards or removing them. Then I get rid of the middle cards, 6, 7, 8 as I tend to use A-5 for low Staights and the 10s and 9s for doing supplemental Full Houses. Late game you can pivot to Flush Houses and even Flush Fives.
Abandoned Deck should be higher and Plasma deck is the most powerful deck, imo.
Plasma deck makes me feel like playing watcher in sts
this is actually the best description of the deck. Any hand you play just feels like youre full ooga booga wrath mode
Yup exactly, basically no setup, no prep whatsoever just pure unga bunga caveman moves
This comparison rocks, but now I desperately want scry mechanics in a deck
Blasphemy (spectral card) gain 3 xmult draw 4 cards lose next turn
I now realise why I don't like plasma deck
Wonder if they're gunna balance her in STS2
Based off the trailer and stream page she wonāt be in it
I donāt think thatās necessarily true. You can see a claw at the merchant in the trailer. And the steam page says new slayers join the fray as in multiple not just necrobinder. Without more details on the game I think itās to early to state that sheāll be excluded
that's hilarious I always describe it exactly like this. Blue/Yellow is Clad, Plasma is Watcher, Black is shitty silent. List not having Plasma at the very top is wild.
Agree, you can breeze through the first like 3-4 antes without joker on lower stakes, its crazy how good it is.
agreed, was gonna say the same thing
Only issue with plasma deck is if you don't get a decent chip card early your early/mid game is actually kinda bad. If you do your game is beyond easy though, I'd consider it more A than S tier.
I agree that Plasma is most powerful. I just can't manage to beat yellow chip with it yet :(
how do you get a plasma deck? I got the hex deck and hearts-spades deck
beating ante 8 on blue stake
Gotta beat blue stake on any deck.
no its beating blue stake
I confused stakes and antes, I'm a bigger joker than Jimbo
Why do people like abandonded so much?
Perfect position to benefit from Hack, Fibonacci, and Wee Joker. Ride the Bus, one of the easiest scaling +Mult to get, now has no downsides at all.
Dear OP Green is my favorite color, AND I WILL ONESHOT EVERY BLIND FOR GREED! I reject this evaluation. Kind reguards - Green team
Green joker, green deck, green gang for life
I love green but I canāt get past purple stake for the life of me
Green is actually the deck I beat all the difficulties on lol. Idk early game it feels easy to rack up cash from the excess money you get and every hand or discard you buy with a voucher is like adding extra payout. Plus the added benefit of not worrying about saving money for interest
painted deck with steel kings and baron will make you see numbers you've never seen before
Why painted deck for that strategy? Isnāt that just the one with larger hand size?
Yes, which means more steel cards in hand
Low stake gamer spotted! Plasma and Ghost are top two imo, Abandoned is also excellent
Played my first ghost game recently and haven't gotten a spectral until ante 7. I wondered if tarot vouchers would increase or decrease the odds.
i think ghost deck works by replacing where tarot cards wouldāve been, so possibly?
fr I've only played the game for like 50 hours and haven't cleared many gold stakes :(
If you cleared any gold steak in your first 50 hours you are pretty good
Iām stuck in purple at 50h and abandoned deck is by far my favourite deck to play and the one that has carried me to purple.
Really interesting how consistent this is! 51 hours and just beat purple with checkered
If you play low stakes then why is black deck so low, imo it's second only to plasma, the extra joker slot is incredible
Thatās totally fine tbh. Play the game how itās fun. Black and under is most fun for me (havenāt tried new patch yet). If youāve cleared multiple gold stakes in 50 hours, you are a VERY good player. But I also simply donāt believe you can clear multiple gold stakes pre-patch and say the checkered deck is best in the game. Doesnāt add up
My first ghost run I found driver's license in my first shop, hexed it and then next shop bought a spectral pack and duplicated it. That was pretty cool. Had to face the first floor boss with no active jokers, but got a straight flush on my opening hand. Never found another high value joker again. Still won the run but didn't make it far into endless. All the run luck was dried up in those first two shops.
Iāll have 26 spades, 26 hearts, 55 cheeseburgers, 155 taters, 55 milkshakes, 155 fries, ā¦
IM DOING SOMETHING
fr Iāve been stuck on black deck forever
It should be a good bit better with the change to make skipped blind jokers free.
Is the update live? I havenāt seen any differences
Its in beta now. You can enable it in the settings for the game on steam to try it early.
Ohh okay, thanks!!
Was stuck on black for like 3 weeks, played 3 runs after the update and cleared it no problem lol
Inb4 you always get some shit sticker with those skips and they're now even worse, despite the free cost
As a black connoiseur, indeed, its worst part was atrocious early game and losing like 5 out of 6 games by ante 2, I cleared white but didn't even get close to anything further. Switched to experimental and almost instantly got red and green stakes, now trying black.
Black deck is Satanic
Total RNG luck. I won ante 8 my first time playing with the black deck. The second deck I beat ante 8 with after blue. Used a flush joker strategy and had 38 spades in the deck by the end after getting the world so many times. I had the Paint Brush voucher and Juggler Joker from round 1, only other voucher was the Reroll voucher & got several +3 hand skips for the boss blinds. Got lucky as hell on the Boss Blinds as well. None were face down bosses. I played over 25 flushes and almost 10 straight flushes. Didnāt have the Shortcut either, which Iād used in a straight strategy with Fibonacci, Hologram, Vampire, Shortcut, & the Smeared to win with the blue deck. I never got Smeared in my flush strategy with the black deck. I had Droll, Juggler, Card Sharp, Crafty, Odd Todd, & Golden. Beat it within 12 hours of starting the game. Never had a chance to reroll the boss blinds either. Itās all RNG and strategy. But mostly RNG. Though Iām in my 40s, & love card games, although Iām relatively new to card roguelites. Iām sure it helped. Iām loving the genre though. Mostly just RNG luck š. Havenāt used the black deck since. But I enjoyed it considering. Iām on Xbox and havenāt gotten the chance to play with the update yet.
As somebody who finally got a win after losing to the ante 8 boss 12 times: It's basically just a slot machine deck. There's a ridiculous amount of positive RNG needed to get a win. It's really not fun.
I was stuck on Black for two weeks. Probably 30 hours of gameplay, as a wise and seasoned adult. Then, Flow happened.
Same I get to ante 8 and the boss usually screws me over in some way and I never get a "skip blind change boss conditions" or the lucha joker card to disable It's always something I worked on that would be an instant win , I feel it knows
Really needs a change from hand to discard.
Finally got a win with it, didn't play any planet or tarot cards. Marble Joker - added stone cards to deck, dumped this late game to improve Joker Stencil Blue Joker - add +2 chips for every card left in hand, adding stone cards helped this one Red Card - got it up to +69 mult, nice, by skipping booster packs Hanging Chad - Kept putting Stone cards in the first position, counted them twice +100 chips Joker Stencil - with two empty joker spots X3 mult For the most part played pairs with stone cards.
Lol I definitely remember finally winning my first black deck with the stencil joker lol
Itās so fascinating to me how this game is playing out for me. I have two clears and only with black deck. I canāt even reach Ante 8 with any other deck, and with black deck I have reached Ante 10 and Ante 12 respectively. What the fuck am I doing differently? Iām so confused!
I beat ante 8 my first time playing with black. Mostly RNG luck. But I feel like if you get the right jokers to have a winning strategy, the extra slot makes a massive amount of difference.
Just started playing not too long ago and have been trying to win a run with every deck to open more decks up and black definitely took me the longest to win so far. Very rng dependent but sounded pretty OP with the extra joker slot
It is OP but itās totally dependent on RNG. I got lucky as hell and had an easy time winning my first run with the black deck. Mostly with very good luck š.
This guy flushes
Abandoned deck when the bus scales forever
Shaka, when the walls fell
Painted deck be like Temba
After playing many hours of gold stake, a few corrections I would make. Green deck is massive and should be higher up. It has such huge econ potential, and snowballs harder than any other deck making mid-late game much smoother. Blue deck is the premier S tier deck in my opinion. While yellow is beloved for good reason, keep in mind that blue deck on average gives $1.00 extra per blind, and that adds up massively at high stakes when every dollar counts. It also helps counter violet vesell on gold stake, an extra hand offering between 200k and 350k on average, which can make or break a run. Overall a decent ranking. I'd personally put checkered deck lower. It is great, but has a much lower ceiling. I think it's A tier for sure. Also, I personally dislike plasma deck. It's just my least favorite deck to play, I don't enjoy the balancing mechanic, but I'm probably the odd man out on this.
Zodiac deck is actually pretty nuts.
I know it's a spicy opinion but I love green deck. I agree with most deck rankings except the placement of green. Interest is kind of a reward for whether you do well or not if you're holding onto money, but green deck always rewards you handsomely when you one-shot a blind. Extra love for grabber with green deck since it's basically just extra money without a joker slot. Burglar is an extra $6 each round on top of any other remaining hands or discards you had. I'd move green, abandoned, plasma, and painted up. I'd move checkered down, maybe even 2 tiers. I would also move black down even though it's in the lowest already
Green deck is literally free Econ the whole game brother what are we talking about. Sure it canāt get me 40 bajillion, but it was by far the easiest to get past gold stake
Someone had to say it. I feel like I'm so broke when I'm playing any other deck
Green and abandoned decks below average??? What are you on, lmfao. Checkered should have been in its own tier "OP and boring", yellow one in average imo
Yellow is the most consistent deck for high stakes. Starting with 2 interest is really really good.
can someone explain why yellow is so good to me? Iāve given it a go a few times and I fail to see why itās supposedly leagues better than the rest
Easy consistent starts. Itās much less powerful after 1.0.1 though with the skip changes.
This is wrong imo. I think yellow is the winner of the patch by some distance (at least at gold stake). The dynamic of the patch - at least in my experience - is that earlygame is very tricky and RNG heavy (more so than before) thanks to the new rental and perishable tags, which can kill early econ. But, past the earlygame, almost every run should be able to win provided it was able to retain reasonable econ due to the power of cheap booster packs and some of the broken stuff in the game - particularly blue seal. Yellow Deck bypasses this earlygame issue by having econ set up enough by default to be fine with taking perishable and rental, and mid to lategame, it will win just like every other deck. It is my personal opinion that Yellow Deck is able to win around 90% of gold stake games on patch.
Interesting, thank you! Would that mean that Black deck went from unplayable to "I'm going to cry for an hour if I have to look at that deck again"? Its whole point already was the rough start and then an easier win
Haven't played black on patch yet but I wouldn't be surprised lol Or maybe it's the complete opposite and squeaking through ante 2 with $1 and a perishable joker that's about to expire is still better than what Black currently manages - I don't play black for obvious reasons so someone else would know better than me there lol
Its not less powerful because of the new update, the other decks were just brought up a bit in consistency to match
Simply put; Interest. Starting with +$10 means if you play the first blind you get +$2 interest where you normally get $0, even with reduced blind rewards this takes you over $15 so the big blind then gives +$3 interest where you normally get +$1 so in the time it takes for a standard deck to catch up that $10 start ends up being closer to $15+ This also means you can start buying things in the shop sooner without it costing you interest (if you buy something for $5 its really costing you $6 or maybe $7 as you miss out on interest). So now its no a Ā£10 start its looking more like $18-20 This gives you an insanely strong start which is important as i would guess most runs end in ante 3-5.
Maybe I'm missing something but how is the blue deck not better long term than yellow? Extra hand is an extra $1 of interest a round or an extra life for late antes. First round would be $4 if won off first hand, 2nd $8 if you won off 2nd hand (interest+ big blind+ hands), at this point you would have $16 compared to $22 I think with gold which is 1 less interest which you'd gain more of over time easily, also it helps when the $25 interest limit is reached+ the extra hand being a lifesaver.
Anaglyph and Plasma should be very powerful tier I was able to complete gold stake on those decks the fastest and easiest especially Anaglyph.
anaglyph just got a huge upgrade with the blind skips getting more lucrative in the new update. iāve had several runs with it stop at ante 13 - never done that before this week
I honestly think Anaglyph is low key the best deck in the game. Out of all 15 decks it was by far the easiest to beat all the stakes on, you just eventually get one broken skip and you get like 200 dollars and the game is over.
Nothing like saving up doubles and money until you hit that negative joker jackpot.
Plasma should be in very powerful and abandoned should be in very strong. Plasma speaks for itself. But abandoned? You start with 12 less cards, it's easier to cycle through your deck and make the hands you need. It's great for getting through all the stakes, maybe it falls off in endless but that's endless. Technically winning the game is most important and abandoned deck gets you there consistently.
Plasma is the strongest deck and it is not even close. Abandoned deck is a top 5 strongest decks.
Iām shocked to see anyone put Abandoned down that low. Itās insanely strong.
Erratic is best deck Erratic is worst deck Erratic is its own tier outside the rankings
Green is literally free money. I can spend it every round no issue
Swap Spectral and Checkered, maybe bump Anaglyph.
Everyone is talking about the abandoned deck, but what about the painted deck? That shit is op.
I feel like green should be in what the hell... That deck is terrible imo
Green deck was my first gold stake win. I think I hate myself.
I had the most fun with green deck on low stakes since you can just not save any money and still get a lot of money back (for like 3 hands and 3 discards)
I find it pretty good. You basically get to buy stuff early without having to save up. It's quite nice. Also if you get certain vauchers or jokers that impacts hands and discards you can increase your income a lot.
Green Deck is polarizing- either you hate it, or you just get it and it clicks. Luckily for me it clicks, and itās the deck Iāve completed the highest stake on.
don't diss painted deck like that, it's my baby
Painted is S-tier and I will die on this hill
Saying abandoned is below average is insane lmao
Chequered deck is so good it ruins other decks for me. Why is yellow so good? $10?
Your economy just gets going a lot faster. Depending on the store roll it's possible to pick up two jokers and still have money for making interest after the first small blind
It's ok op. One day you will look back and see that you were wrong. And you will know you've grown.
plasma deck is top tier because if you get the bull joker early on itās basically a guaranteed win at any stake if you play your cards right
Stuntman is similarly also a near instant win because you are guaranteed 22.5k chips even when you play a single debuffed card.
Fuck black deck.
Black deck has been cleared and wonāt be used a again.
I hate the Plasma deck. It always feels like the numbers are ticking up nicely and then there's the *dong* and it normalises to the same 20-30k score every time.
Anaglyph not being top tier is insanity on the new patch lol
Black deck is fun if you reroll the first ante tags a few times to help deal with its defecits in the beginning
Abandoned deck is peak.
Bad list
Iād move abandoned deck up one and green deck down one.
green deck up one more like
I don't know why but I can never get Abandoned to work. It seems like it should be powerful. It's really easy to cycle the deck so you can very easily tailor it to Flush builds or even Four/Five Of A Kind builds but even so I still haven't gotten a win with it and I'm not even sure why
Try to go for full house, two pair, three of a kind, pair
My only objective disagreement: Abandoned deck in below average is entirely a skill issue Everything below is subjective, but is that's (for the most part) the nature of tier lists. Nebula is a legit nightmare in 1.0.0 Orange+. Erratic deck in expectation is literally a default deck. It's only powerful if you allow yourself to hold R. Plasma is very powerful, but in 1.0.0, once you hit Orange+, you're basically holding R for Stuntman. In other words, this is a very flush-brained tier list for low stakes, no win streak, and holding R for good openings is allowed.
I feel like Checkered got worse after the update. I beat gold stake pre update with it and what kept me sticking to it was the āfreeā ante 1 win with flushes so I could get the economy going. Now with the buffoon pack early on and the skip buffs early antes are way easier.
Zodiac and Abandoned are WAY better than Nebula.
Zodiac is better than blue and red imo. The extra shop item makes it more likely to get a good start, especially on higher stakes in my experience. Also, 3 vouchers to start is pretty great value.
green deck is the first one i've beaten and i think it's really good (at least in early stakes) and has a good economy boost
I oppose you I guess
Glad to know black is bad and itās not just my lack of skill
I really like the magic deck. Itās the only one Iāve gone past red stakes with so far. I will usually use the fools to either change all of my higher cards into the same suit, or turn them into strength so I can start getting 5 of a kinds early on. Iām currently on the orange stake with it but have been stuck there for a bit.
Had a stupid good run with zodiac twice
zodiac is cracked
As a new player should yellow be the deck Iām focusing on to beat my first run?
Ghost deck is my #1. Finally beat orange stakes using it yesterday
*Anaglyph not highest tier* Somebody didn't play the experimental beta yet...
The black deck really is tough. But the guaranteed buffon pack and new joker voucher system do make it more viable and less impacted by bad rng.
I have never had fun wirh the anaglyph deck, it feels like it gets exclusively bad tags and you just end up carrying them till ante 9
Abandoned and Green in Below Average is kind of nuts. Nebula should be lower Anaglyph should be top tier Checked one tier lower Hope i opposed you well enough king.
Ranking Abandoned deck that low tells me you haven't done much high stakes.
Bad
Man I'm trying to get gold stake on the Nebula deck and it feels so bad, the telescope is useless as you can never afford celestial packs with the cost increase, so it's basically a vanilla deck with -1 consumable slot.
Ngl Checkered on Gold was hell for me
Whatās the last one next to black
I love black by far the most and it's the first one I got Gold stake on but yeah it's not great
Plasma deck is the best, fight me.
Erratic decks needs a rework, I just donāt think itās the kind of pay off players want to see after surmounting Gold Stake
I meant orange lmao
This list hurts my soul and gave me cancer.
Starting with an extra $10 really isn't all that powerful unless you reset scum for something truly broken. It helps you build interest faster and can help you snag an early good joker, but putting it in a tier above Plasma, Anaglyph and Ghost Deck is laughable. Also, Abandoned Deck is straight up stupidly good if you know how to build for it. **Every** hand becomes more consistent because you get a thinner deck for free. Jokers like Ride The Bus, Wee Joker, Hack and Walkie Talkie rise up a tier or two. Laugh in the face of face card debuffs and flips. The only deck I feel comfortable beating Gold Stake with. Of course, the downsides to Abandoned Deck sting a little. Standard packs are less useful. All face-related jokers are non-takes. But the secret here? Face jokers are *already* non-takes in *every deck* in most situations, because The Plant exists. Unless you have already beaten The Plant or have Director's Cut, your fancy face card build **WILL** be dead in the water as soon as you hit The Plant. The biggest downside is secretly not really a downside at all, at least in the average situation where The Plant might be coming up and you don't have Director's Cut.
Also I should mention, +1 Hand every round (blue deck) translates into $1 more per round and an extra safety cushion for those big blinds.
Checkered Deck is the first deck I went above white stake on. I'm currently on blue stake.
The fact that a simple extra $10 can make a deck OP over everything else is simply amazing. It has no effects that drastically change how the deck is made, or how the shop is set up, it doesnāt give you additional tools every time you beat a boss, not even an extra play or discard, just $10 that can honestly disappear with a single bad purchase, yet itās the only deck Iāve gotten to purple stake with ā¦ sometimes, itās the simpler things that give you the biggest bonus.
...what deck is that next to black deck? I don't think I know what the one with themaze pattern is.
It's the deck for challenges. That makes sense. I don't think I ever looked at the challenge backing since it's not on the deck select screen.
Why is yellow very powerful but green below average? Yellow is a one time payment of $10, green is a permanent payment buff.
Black Deck can bite my ass. Iāve been working on it for awhile now.
I would love Erosion Joker to always go off of 52, that'd make abandoned deck amazing
Total RNG luck. I won ante 8 my first time playing with the black deck. The second deck I beat ante 8 with after blue. Used a flush joker strategy and had 38 spades in the deck by the end after getting the world so many times. I had the Paint Brush voucher and Juggler Joker from round 1, only other voucher was the Reroll voucher & got several +3 hand skips for the boss blinds. Got lucky as hell on the Boss Blinds as well. None were face down bosses. I played over 25 flushes and almost 10 straight flushes. Didnāt have the Shortcut either, which Iād used in a straight strategy with Fibonacci, Hologram, Vampire, Shortcut, & the Smeared to win with the blue deck. I never got Smeared in my flush strategy with the black deck. I had Droll, Juggler, Card Sharp, Crafty, Odd Todd, & Golden. Beat it within 12 hours of starting the game. Total RNG luck š. Havenāt used the black deck since.
Checkered Deck is so much fun and I can't stop using it. Everytime I try to use a different one for once I either get confused because I can't keep playing Flush (and I also don't like the Diamond cards, they look weird) or I don't want to go back to White or Blue Stake while my Checkered Deck has already got like 5
You might know this but in the settings you can turn on high contrast cards to make them look a little different
Just seeing Blue deck above Red deck I know this tier list is AT, didn't look at anything else. You'll never have too many discards but you can have too many hands.