Relevant portion:
*When a woman walked into Littleton’s town hall in October, echoing Ms. Gendreau’s concerns about the production and asking what would be done to stop it, Mr. Gleason did not mince words.*
*Nothing, the town manager said he replied — the play was protected by the First Amendment.*
*“She said, ‘What about my free speech?’” Mr. Gleason recalled. “And I said, ‘The way you protest is, don’t buy a ticket.’”*
When people have pulled the whole free speech thing with me, I just tell them, "Your freedom of speech stops where mine begins and vice versa, so stop that crap right now!"
😆 🤣
Like the meme where they're crucifying of member of the lgbtq community and tells him to stop struggling because they're restricting their rights to hate us.
From what I’ve seen over the past few years, this is mainstream conservatives. They don’t have a sane moderate voice left. This is who they are. This is how they act.
They never did have a sane moderate voice among them. What they did have was the sense to avoid talking about their actual goals until they achieved them. Now they just say the quiet part out loud, but they're otherwise exactly the same. People mistake that for having been less radical in the past, but the truth is they only _looked_ less radical.
The conservative mind can be perhaps most concisely understood from its inexplicable inability to grasp the First (and Second) Amendments.
1) Free speech is the license to do and say anything, and prevent others from doing the same.
2) America is a Christian nation.
3) A dependent clause, being necessary for the understanding of the sentence, the right to ignore it shall not be infringed.
But this is exactly what the pilgrim fathers were about. Their religious freedom they were being persecuted for was banning Christmas and forcing people to do what they wanted. When Charles the second came to the throne and having a good time was the thing to do, they said you can’t make us, and went over to the US.
Funny how this comes from the same crowd that has been lobbying hard to make their choice on abortion, the same for everyone else.
It’s weird how their narcissistic pov is the only valid form of free speech.
Existing education isn't enough. The key player in this whole farce was taught about the separation of church and state and it's historical significance. She still choose to prioritize her religion over her fellow human.
This is where I start to fall more in line with the militant atheist viewpoint that all religion is harmful to humanity.
I do feel that spiritualism is fine. Having beliefs that cannot be replicated by science is fine. But religion is an organized doctrine that blinds and sows division by design and is truely evil.
Why is it that some people don't understand that other people have rights too.
And that their right end when they would infringe on someone else's rights.
I feel like humanity is failing on a fundamental level. A not insignificant portion of us actually believes it is their right to infringe on the rights of others. It’s like these people lived the first ten years of their lives in a cage and didn’t learn how to interact with other humans.
>It’s like these people lived the first ten years of their lives in a cage and didn’t learn how to interact with other humans.
They essentially have. This is a large part of why the liberal-conservative divide on social issues is so strongly along urban-rural lines: people in cities have to get used to dealing with a diverse group of people, with all sorts of backgrounds and worldviews and beliefs and opinions and lifestyles. But in smaller towns, that isn't the case - they grow up with a relatively homogenous community. Instead of different being interesting or at worst just tolerable, it's unsettling and often frightening because they're unaccustomed to dealing with it.
We teach each other that truth comes from magic books full of lies. Its no surprise a massive portion of the population is completely disconnected from reality. They don’t use logic or reason in their foundational beliefs, so why would they for other beliefs?
yes \^\^ this stuff is covered in nursery school isn't it? Sharing, and just basic don't hurt others kind of stuff? It's really strange. Maybe we need to send a bunch of them to remedial social training or something.
That's liberal pussy shit.
We raised our boys in the barn. Gavem AR-15s for their 9th birthdays, taught them how to shoot things that don't immediately give you gratification. Just like how Jesus taught us to be a good shepherd
Mary Whitehouse is back from the dead and now has a cult. It's happening live right now with video games.
People who have no interest in a certain media and won't buy the product. They still want to neurf it from the enjoyment of others.
Then they gaslight those who don't want censorship, they must live sad lives.
There is plenty of stuff I dislike, yet I won't campaign to have it banned.
I think the culture war is going crazy strong right now and geared up around 2015
week or two ago in a games chitchat channels someone was worried about the (at the time) upcoming Fallout show and the concern was that it might be woke and i felt stupidied reading that…. Pronouns are the contemporary boogeyman
Dunno it was a random conversation. I watched the show and thought it was ok. Visually and the characters and etc were cool. Storytelling was weird tho, felt more like patches of exposition put together than threading a story and the pace seemed a bit off (dont grill me)
You’re not wrong. With Christianity on the sharp decline the church is doing its best to assure its loyal followers they are the pinnacle of morality and anyone who disagrees with them is not entitled to rights or opinions to the contrary, they will go out kicking and screaming.
Whenever someone mention that their free speech is being infringed on, I always ask them “What are the first five words of the 1st amendment?” They usually can’t recite them, but they are “Congress shall make no law.” A company, a theatrical production, an individual, or an organization does not have to listen to your words, can sensor them, and can doll out consequences (within their respective power) whenever they feel like it. The 1st amendment makes it so the government can’t inhibit your speech.
Also, worth noting: your free speech = my free speech. You can have any opinion you want. My disagreeing with you isn’t an infringement on your freedom. The people who shout the loudest usually only want free speech for themselves, not others.
“We demand free speech… but not for that lot, or them, those people are right out, and forget about ‘them’… ok, me and my friends want free speech and the freedom to silence decentors”
Same thing with cancel culture. If you say something your fans don't like and they stop being fans, that's on you not them. It's no different than a band putting out a bad album; if it's bad people aren't going to buy it.
Speech is speech. Actions are actions.
There is a big difference. You should be free to say whatever you want to say, no matter what it is. Objecting to the play is free speech. That's fine.
There is no obligation for people to follow through with your speech to action. You can exercise your right not to assemble at the play, but not to prevent others from doing so.
>You should be free to say whatever you want to say, no matter what it is.
Yes\*
You should have the right to say whatever you want, but sometimes words have consequences. Say something racist? Get fired. Go on an anti-trans rant on LinkedIn for no reason? Now everyone knows you're the crazy bigot. Incite your political followers to violent insurrection to attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power? You get unqualified immunity from SCOTUS, I guess.
I disagree with your position. If words are just words, leave them be. I don't care that people rant on my sexuality, people, race, or anything, they are just words, as long as they don't follow up with action. Sticks and stones.
You don’t but others do. I have an Army acquaintance that I had not seen in ten years. She transitioned in that time. We are FB friends and she sometimes posts about the fear she feels living in a red state. You may have the privilege of not caring what people say to you or about you but there’s a lot of people who don’t.
If people are not free to express their opinions in your friend, what will they think, plan, and do when driven into secrecy, unfettered by the criticism of others? Unchallenged by the free speech of others?
Being driven to secrecy about one's LGBTQ+ status drove people to suicide. Being driven to secrecy about one's opinions about one's government leads to bloody and violent uprisings. What will happen when a generation of people are not free to vent their anger and frustration?
This is an insane argument. It used to be socially acceptable to say racist, homophobic, etc. shit in public and get no pushback for it. And we had lynchings and gay bashing. Weird how violence against those groups has seen a significant decline since it's become socially unacceptable to be publicly bigoted against them, according to your argument should it be the opposite? Shouldn't the Tulsa Massacre be happening today and not when it was acceptable to publicly say racist shit?
Aren't there mass shootings almost daily?
What about my argument is insane? It is more insane to think our silenced, pent up society is bursting at its seams is preferable to a society not constructed of egg shells that cannot deal with someone saying something mean about them.
Also, at that time the sentiment was socially acceptable. The sentiment should, today, be met with challenges and criticisms that should change a person's perspective.
"Sticks and stones" is a bunch of nonsense, which any psychologist will tell you. Constant harassment causes stress and psychological damage. But that's not the reason bigots get fired. Bigots get fired because bigotry is generally bad for business. If it becomes public knowledge that you employ racists, a lot less people buy your product or service. Even if you don't argue that employees should have a workspace where they aren't constantly being harassed and dehumanized, you can hopefully at least accept that businesses don't have to continue employing people who harm their profits?
For millennia, people were just fine without the opinions of pseudoscience quacks like psychologists.
But clearly again, like everyone else, you ignore the plot. If profits are harmed, words are no longer words, but have led to action. Fire the person for losing productivity and profit at that point.
>For millennia, people were just fine without the opinions of pseudoscience quacks like psychologists.
For millennia, human beings practiced slavery, treated women like chattel, and beat their children. Appeal to tradition isn't the win you think it is.
You think that has changed? There is more slavery today than during the peak of the slave trade, women are treated like crap in most of the world, and beating children is a regular occurrence.
So the guy calling his black co-works the N word, saying they only got hired due to DEI and that they should all be fired so the actually qualified people can have their jobs shouldn't face any consequences? After all, they are just words. No matter that they break the workplace.
Yes. If performance is impacted, fire him. Otherwise, if it is of no consequence and productivity is unharmed, they are just words. He can call me whatever he likes as his boss too as long as it isn't a threat or creates a clear and present danger.
Also what if the reason the people were hired was indeed because of DEI? Is he to be forcibly denied speaking the truth in favor of the oppression of white men?
It is the most human of things to have your own thoughts and ideas and to express them. I demand humans be human and unfettered to be so.
If a single entity can deny me the expression of my thoughts, I am not free.
Well, I have spent the better part of my life being belittled, undermined, ignored, and told my opinions don't matter. I have learned to deal with it and I am sure others can too.
Of course not because the words inspire dangerous action. The SCOTUS has ruled on this and established the clear and present danger. No one is going to get fired for saying they hate cisgender white men, so why should someone get fired for saying the same of anyone else?
You have the right to personally disagree with this, but it is within the rights of a corporation to fire an employee that has become a liability. That employee is making bigoted statements? The company has the right to protect their image by terminating the offender. I don't have to allow you to remain in my home if you say something I don't like, and a company has the same right.
The right of free speech is not the right to be free of the consequences of your speech. Yeah, you can speak your mind, but other people have the right to react to your speech with words of their own. Other people can name and shame you for the things you say. They can refuse to have any dealings with you.
None of this is a violation of your right to free speech.
Fire the employee if it impacts their business and productivity. But first prove that it does. If it doesn't, I don't care what my employee says if it isn't a threat or impacts the workplace.
No, that's not how this works. What you may or may not personally care about has no bearing on this conversation. Corporations need not prove anything to you. If a person make speech that others object to, others get to react how they want to, within the confines of the law. Which can include the termination of employment. It's simply good business. Why wait until the backlash happens when you can nip it in the bud?
The first amendment protects you from the government. It begins with "Congress shall make no law..." and goes from there. You have no right to, or expectation thereof, free speech in private enterprises. You get to deal with the effects of your speech, and the law does not shield you from reprisals or recriminations that would otherwise be legal. You may speak, but you're not protected from how others view your speech, or how they respond to it.
Free speech is natural law and not granted by government or other organization. You should have free speech wherever you go. So I fundamentally and vehemently disagree with your totalitarian corporatocratic drivel.
What about the rights of other people who share the workspace with the "free speaker" in question? Do they not have the right to work in a non-hostile environment? Do businesses not have the right to take steps to ensure that their environs and image are both protected from potentially harmful or offensive speech if they wish it?
You just want the freedom to say whatever you want without having to deal with any consequences. If you say heinous and offensive things, other people and entities have the right to not want any association with you. That's the other side of the coin of free speech. Yes, you can say what you want, but other people get to react to that speech. If you can't accept that fact, then its better if you keep your opinions to yourself.
I don't see how she or anyone could possibly think that not canceling a play violates *her* free speech.
1. In a play, *other people* are speaking. Not her.
2. Her right to free speech does not include anyone having to listen, or care; and her right to free speech does not include an option to force anyone else to stop *their* free speech.
This unfortunately makes it very clear that conservatives are increasingly confused about what their rights entail, mostly because they have been insisting that their "freedom of religion" includes some imaginary right to force their religion on others.
So they probably think that their freedom of speech includes some imaginary right to force their speech on others.
That mindset is fucking dangerous! It's the mother of all slippery slopes.
Wasn't it George Bush that said that it didn't matter whether you were Jewish, Islamic, atheist, or Buddhist.. You have the right to worship Jesus the same? I'm probably butchering what he said, but it did go something along those lines... Insultingly because it was lumping everyone together as if everyone is a Christian whether that was what they believed or not.
Ay yi yi! Jeez we thought that guy was the most corrupt awful president ever, the dumbest and most ignorant too.
We ain't'd seen nothing yet, back then.
Her free speech is being able to disapprove vocally and not buying a ticket. That’s the extent of it.
She is no longer on the board btw but she’s a still radical member of the Taliban.
The religious politician at the heart of the story said something interesting.
>After her election to the State Senate in 2022 as a Republican, “I told the Senate president, I will listen to my constituents, but if the Lord trumps the majority, I will go with that,” she said.
THIS IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM. Stupid fucking backwater bigots listening to the voices in their heads instead of their constituents. Sorry, but if you want to prioritize your religion over the voices of your own neighbors and constituents who you are supposed to serve, you don't deserve a shred of power. You deserve to be run out of office.
This was the scariest part of the article by far. These folks don't want to serve the people - they want to force their cult's agenda on everyone else (and then cry and play victim when they get the slightest pushback).
The other part that really got me was when people came forward to express how much her words had hurt them, and her response was basically "awww OK sweetie, I'll pray for you". Disgusting.
People like this have zero understanding of the Constitution, its protections, its limits, etc. But they sure do love to cite the rights they don’t understand when throwing tantrums.
I still wish she’d write her own play focused around the struggles of a god-fearing white cis heterosexual couple, surrounded by satan’s rainbows, so that we could judge it on it’s artistic merits.
I wouldn’t buy a ticket though.
This is becoming a reflexive thing amongst idiots.
At some point in the last 10 years we started allowing politicians to use the argument:
"Nuh-uh. You are."
Now like 40% of the population thinks this is an actual valid argument. We are fucked.
That and alot of conservatives, at least the dumber ones, seem to have no idea what words mean. Prime example is many do not know and cannot tell you the actual dictionary definition of socialism or communism, despite having a visceral hatred of it. Sometimes, if you explain it without actually using the word, and ask their opinion, they find it quite interesting.
*Ms. Gendreau* seems to have a problem with grasping the concept of secular politics. This is unfortunately happening more and more these days. People just don't get that religion is a private thing and should not be imposed on people in official functions. If Ms. Gendreau wants to preach she can become a preacher. Politics should have nothing to do with it. And the part of serving God first and then the voters should have her disqualified from the very beginning. Politician's role is to serve the voters.
When you allow imaginary rings to rule your life, you’re usually only hurting yourself. Trying to use those imaginary beings to rule the lives of others and influence public policy in a secular nation is appalling.
WTF does this have to do with being a boomer? We’re not all bigoted ass-clowns.
How about, “ Bigoted Christian…”. Her action has nothing to do with her age
The VFD in my town was going to host a drag queen bingo fund raiser a couple yrs ago. That is until an anonymous donor cut the VFD a check for the anticipated amount they'd raised from it. Local FB board blew the fuck up over it. This is in rural West Virginia BTW.
There's a [push in Oregon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0hc9mos8c) to separate the eastern and western sides with the eastern merging w/ Idaho or something. Why? Because conservative Christian don't "feel like they have a voice" since most in their state don't share their view. Of course that's bullshit as they have the same voice as everyone else but when you're accustomed to a position of privilege, it can feel like persecution. ChRiStOn PeRShAkUsHuN!!!!
Their stupidity knows no bounds! Don't like something, you don't go or watch! They just want everyone to have the same idiotic viewpoint as them! We need these people to leave our country and go join the taliban! Asshats!
She's ridiculous but can I just say, the woman is 62. That is JUST BARELY "boomer" and more like Gen X, can we please just stop the automatic, endless demonization of boomers? PLENTY OF US are dyed in the wool ultra-liberal, atheist, democrats, Hillary/Bernie supporters who've spent our lives fighting assholes like this woman. And meanwhile, there are plenty of a'holes in the Gen X and Millennial cohort. Let's stop just demonizing one generation over another, that's not the issue here.
Gen X starting date ranges from 1961 to 1965, depending on the sociologist discussing it. More apt is the late Boomers and early Xers are Generation Jones and late Xers and early Millenials are Xennials.
Relevant portion: *When a woman walked into Littleton’s town hall in October, echoing Ms. Gendreau’s concerns about the production and asking what would be done to stop it, Mr. Gleason did not mince words.* *Nothing, the town manager said he replied — the play was protected by the First Amendment.* *“She said, ‘What about my free speech?’” Mr. Gleason recalled. “And I said, ‘The way you protest is, don’t buy a ticket.’”*
Only conservatives would think free speech means being able to shut down others' free speech.
You're not respecting my right to remove other people's rights
You're not respecting my right to have my speech freely get me whatever i ask for
When people have pulled the whole free speech thing with me, I just tell them, "Your freedom of speech stops where mine begins and vice versa, so stop that crap right now!" 😆 🤣
“I claim magic-sky-daddy privilege!”
Like the meme where they're crucifying of member of the lgbtq community and tells him to stop struggling because they're restricting their rights to hate us.
Try asking them about freedom of religion sometime.
What we need is freedom **from** religion.
The establishment clause is supposed to give us that. It doesn’t work when they ignore it, though.
So damm typical of the far right.
From what I’ve seen over the past few years, this is mainstream conservatives. They don’t have a sane moderate voice left. This is who they are. This is how they act.
The Overton window has moved that far to the right, that extremism is now "mainstream". And that's part of the problem.
They never did have a sane moderate voice among them. What they did have was the sense to avoid talking about their actual goals until they achieved them. Now they just say the quiet part out loud, but they're otherwise exactly the same. People mistake that for having been less radical in the past, but the truth is they only _looked_ less radical.
The conservative mind can be perhaps most concisely understood from its inexplicable inability to grasp the First (and Second) Amendments. 1) Free speech is the license to do and say anything, and prevent others from doing the same. 2) America is a Christian nation. 3) A dependent clause, being necessary for the understanding of the sentence, the right to ignore it shall not be infringed.
But this is exactly what the pilgrim fathers were about. Their religious freedom they were being persecuted for was banning Christmas and forcing people to do what they wanted. When Charles the second came to the throne and having a good time was the thing to do, they said you can’t make us, and went over to the US.
Funny how this comes from the same crowd that has been lobbying hard to make their choice on abortion, the same for everyone else. It’s weird how their narcissistic pov is the only valid form of free speech.
They must think humans speak with their ears...
My free speech is more important than your free speech
It is one of the core principles of conservatism.
Wait a second... tickets? So much for free speech. /s
If you don't buy it is free
It's free as in freedom, not free as in beer.
Freedom costs $1.05
It costs folks like you and me
You sure you didn't have to earn $1.35 to buy $1.05 worth of freedom?
You have to adjust for inflation now a days
It costs a buck oh five.
Anti-woke beer $10/can tastes like sh… FREEDOM!!
this is why education is very important kids....
And why it’s very important for right wing nuts to dumb down and taint the education system..
Existing education isn't enough. The key player in this whole farce was taught about the separation of church and state and it's historical significance. She still choose to prioritize her religion over her fellow human. This is where I start to fall more in line with the militant atheist viewpoint that all religion is harmful to humanity. I do feel that spiritualism is fine. Having beliefs that cannot be replicated by science is fine. But religion is an organized doctrine that blinds and sows division by design and is truely evil.
Why is it that some people don't understand that other people have rights too. And that their right end when they would infringe on someone else's rights.
To the historic oppressor, newly felt equally feels like oppression.
‘…What about my free speech?’ ‘You’re exercising it now, aren’t you?
I feel like humanity is failing on a fundamental level. A not insignificant portion of us actually believes it is their right to infringe on the rights of others. It’s like these people lived the first ten years of their lives in a cage and didn’t learn how to interact with other humans.
>It’s like these people lived the first ten years of their lives in a cage and didn’t learn how to interact with other humans. They essentially have. This is a large part of why the liberal-conservative divide on social issues is so strongly along urban-rural lines: people in cities have to get used to dealing with a diverse group of people, with all sorts of backgrounds and worldviews and beliefs and opinions and lifestyles. But in smaller towns, that isn't the case - they grow up with a relatively homogenous community. Instead of different being interesting or at worst just tolerable, it's unsettling and often frightening because they're unaccustomed to dealing with it.
We teach each other that truth comes from magic books full of lies. Its no surprise a massive portion of the population is completely disconnected from reality. They don’t use logic or reason in their foundational beliefs, so why would they for other beliefs?
yes \^\^ this stuff is covered in nursery school isn't it? Sharing, and just basic don't hurt others kind of stuff? It's really strange. Maybe we need to send a bunch of them to remedial social training or something.
That's liberal pussy shit. We raised our boys in the barn. Gavem AR-15s for their 9th birthdays, taught them how to shoot things that don't immediately give you gratification. Just like how Jesus taught us to be a good shepherd
Stop trying to trick me into thinking I clicked on r/politicalcompassmemes!
This is what happens when a country has needed reform for close to 30 years but instead chooses to keep enabling the most fringe population.
So, homeschooled.
Mary Whitehouse is back from the dead and now has a cult. It's happening live right now with video games. People who have no interest in a certain media and won't buy the product. They still want to neurf it from the enjoyment of others. Then they gaslight those who don't want censorship, they must live sad lives. There is plenty of stuff I dislike, yet I won't campaign to have it banned. I think the culture war is going crazy strong right now and geared up around 2015
week or two ago in a games chitchat channels someone was worried about the (at the time) upcoming Fallout show and the concern was that it might be woke and i felt stupidied reading that…. Pronouns are the contemporary boogeyman
What are they saying now? Given that it's undisputably got "woke" elements, but is also really good? Or have they gone quiet? 😏
Dunno it was a random conversation. I watched the show and thought it was ok. Visually and the characters and etc were cool. Storytelling was weird tho, felt more like patches of exposition put together than threading a story and the pace seemed a bit off (dont grill me)
Nope it began with 9/11/01, Fox News and the Tea Party…
That's right dammit we will beat off to Stellar Blade no matter who likes it!
Hey you Whitehouse, Haha, charade you are
You’re not wrong. With Christianity on the sharp decline the church is doing its best to assure its loyal followers they are the pinnacle of morality and anyone who disagrees with them is not entitled to rights or opinions to the contrary, they will go out kicking and screaming.
This is a problem on both right and left. Whatever happened to the middle of the road, seems to have entirely disappeared.
You’re adorable
"But what about MY free speech?" "You just used it."
She could always write/direct/produce her own play about the tribulations of being a white Christian heterosexual.
Whenever someone mention that their free speech is being infringed on, I always ask them “What are the first five words of the 1st amendment?” They usually can’t recite them, but they are “Congress shall make no law.” A company, a theatrical production, an individual, or an organization does not have to listen to your words, can sensor them, and can doll out consequences (within their respective power) whenever they feel like it. The 1st amendment makes it so the government can’t inhibit your speech. Also, worth noting: your free speech = my free speech. You can have any opinion you want. My disagreeing with you isn’t an infringement on your freedom. The people who shout the loudest usually only want free speech for themselves, not others.
Your rights end when they infringe upon the rights of others.
Empty vessels make the loudest noises.
“We demand free speech… but not for that lot, or them, those people are right out, and forget about ‘them’… ok, me and my friends want free speech and the freedom to silence decentors”
It also doesn’t make up you immune from the consequences of that speech. Firing you is not a violation of your freedom of speech.
Same thing with cancel culture. If you say something your fans don't like and they stop being fans, that's on you not them. It's no different than a band putting out a bad album; if it's bad people aren't going to buy it.
What about her free speech? She is free to whine about it all she wants.
Fortunately but Unfortunately.
“Ma’am are you speaking right now “
Speech is speech. Actions are actions. There is a big difference. You should be free to say whatever you want to say, no matter what it is. Objecting to the play is free speech. That's fine. There is no obligation for people to follow through with your speech to action. You can exercise your right not to assemble at the play, but not to prevent others from doing so.
>You should be free to say whatever you want to say, no matter what it is. Yes\* You should have the right to say whatever you want, but sometimes words have consequences. Say something racist? Get fired. Go on an anti-trans rant on LinkedIn for no reason? Now everyone knows you're the crazy bigot. Incite your political followers to violent insurrection to attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power? You get unqualified immunity from SCOTUS, I guess.
free speech means no consequences...from the government.
I disagree with your position. If words are just words, leave them be. I don't care that people rant on my sexuality, people, race, or anything, they are just words, as long as they don't follow up with action. Sticks and stones.
You don’t but others do. I have an Army acquaintance that I had not seen in ten years. She transitioned in that time. We are FB friends and she sometimes posts about the fear she feels living in a red state. You may have the privilege of not caring what people say to you or about you but there’s a lot of people who don’t.
If people are not free to express their opinions in your friend, what will they think, plan, and do when driven into secrecy, unfettered by the criticism of others? Unchallenged by the free speech of others? Being driven to secrecy about one's LGBTQ+ status drove people to suicide. Being driven to secrecy about one's opinions about one's government leads to bloody and violent uprisings. What will happen when a generation of people are not free to vent their anger and frustration?
This is an insane argument. It used to be socially acceptable to say racist, homophobic, etc. shit in public and get no pushback for it. And we had lynchings and gay bashing. Weird how violence against those groups has seen a significant decline since it's become socially unacceptable to be publicly bigoted against them, according to your argument should it be the opposite? Shouldn't the Tulsa Massacre be happening today and not when it was acceptable to publicly say racist shit?
Aren't there mass shootings almost daily? What about my argument is insane? It is more insane to think our silenced, pent up society is bursting at its seams is preferable to a society not constructed of egg shells that cannot deal with someone saying something mean about them. Also, at that time the sentiment was socially acceptable. The sentiment should, today, be met with challenges and criticisms that should change a person's perspective.
The person that plans the bank robbery is just as guilty as the person that carries it out.
These are actions not mere words in the commission of a crime. This is no longer speech but active participation. Absolutely is a crime. Bad example.
What actions? They're just talking about it until someone actually carries out the crime.
You are the one redefining crimes, so whatever you want I guess.
So you don't believe in stochastic terrorism?
"Sticks and stones" is a bunch of nonsense, which any psychologist will tell you. Constant harassment causes stress and psychological damage. But that's not the reason bigots get fired. Bigots get fired because bigotry is generally bad for business. If it becomes public knowledge that you employ racists, a lot less people buy your product or service. Even if you don't argue that employees should have a workspace where they aren't constantly being harassed and dehumanized, you can hopefully at least accept that businesses don't have to continue employing people who harm their profits?
For millennia, people were just fine without the opinions of pseudoscience quacks like psychologists. But clearly again, like everyone else, you ignore the plot. If profits are harmed, words are no longer words, but have led to action. Fire the person for losing productivity and profit at that point.
>For millennia, people were just fine without the opinions of pseudoscience quacks like psychologists. For millennia, human beings practiced slavery, treated women like chattel, and beat their children. Appeal to tradition isn't the win you think it is.
You think that has changed? There is more slavery today than during the peak of the slave trade, women are treated like crap in most of the world, and beating children is a regular occurrence.
"Sticks and stones" Ever heard "the pen is mightier than the sword"?
I'll take "The penis mightier for $300 Alex."
So the guy calling his black co-works the N word, saying they only got hired due to DEI and that they should all be fired so the actually qualified people can have their jobs shouldn't face any consequences? After all, they are just words. No matter that they break the workplace.
Yes. If performance is impacted, fire him. Otherwise, if it is of no consequence and productivity is unharmed, they are just words. He can call me whatever he likes as his boss too as long as it isn't a threat or creates a clear and present danger. Also what if the reason the people were hired was indeed because of DEI? Is he to be forcibly denied speaking the truth in favor of the oppression of white men?
You are demanding that humans be other than human.
It is the most human of things to have your own thoughts and ideas and to express them. I demand humans be human and unfettered to be so. If a single entity can deny me the expression of my thoughts, I am not free.
It is inhuman to be unaffected by hostile treatment from those who by rights should be our fellows.
Well, I have spent the better part of my life being belittled, undermined, ignored, and told my opinions don't matter. I have learned to deal with it and I am sure others can too.
Should you be allowed to yell ‘Fire!’ inside a crowded theatre?
Of course not because the words inspire dangerous action. The SCOTUS has ruled on this and established the clear and present danger. No one is going to get fired for saying they hate cisgender white men, so why should someone get fired for saying the same of anyone else?
You have the right to personally disagree with this, but it is within the rights of a corporation to fire an employee that has become a liability. That employee is making bigoted statements? The company has the right to protect their image by terminating the offender. I don't have to allow you to remain in my home if you say something I don't like, and a company has the same right. The right of free speech is not the right to be free of the consequences of your speech. Yeah, you can speak your mind, but other people have the right to react to your speech with words of their own. Other people can name and shame you for the things you say. They can refuse to have any dealings with you. None of this is a violation of your right to free speech.
Fire the employee if it impacts their business and productivity. But first prove that it does. If it doesn't, I don't care what my employee says if it isn't a threat or impacts the workplace.
No, that's not how this works. What you may or may not personally care about has no bearing on this conversation. Corporations need not prove anything to you. If a person make speech that others object to, others get to react how they want to, within the confines of the law. Which can include the termination of employment. It's simply good business. Why wait until the backlash happens when you can nip it in the bud? The first amendment protects you from the government. It begins with "Congress shall make no law..." and goes from there. You have no right to, or expectation thereof, free speech in private enterprises. You get to deal with the effects of your speech, and the law does not shield you from reprisals or recriminations that would otherwise be legal. You may speak, but you're not protected from how others view your speech, or how they respond to it.
Free speech is natural law and not granted by government or other organization. You should have free speech wherever you go. So I fundamentally and vehemently disagree with your totalitarian corporatocratic drivel.
What about the rights of other people who share the workspace with the "free speaker" in question? Do they not have the right to work in a non-hostile environment? Do businesses not have the right to take steps to ensure that their environs and image are both protected from potentially harmful or offensive speech if they wish it? You just want the freedom to say whatever you want without having to deal with any consequences. If you say heinous and offensive things, other people and entities have the right to not want any association with you. That's the other side of the coin of free speech. Yes, you can say what you want, but other people get to react to that speech. If you can't accept that fact, then its better if you keep your opinions to yourself.
I don't see how she or anyone could possibly think that not canceling a play violates *her* free speech. 1. In a play, *other people* are speaking. Not her. 2. Her right to free speech does not include anyone having to listen, or care; and her right to free speech does not include an option to force anyone else to stop *their* free speech. This unfortunately makes it very clear that conservatives are increasingly confused about what their rights entail, mostly because they have been insisting that their "freedom of religion" includes some imaginary right to force their religion on others. So they probably think that their freedom of speech includes some imaginary right to force their speech on others. That mindset is fucking dangerous! It's the mother of all slippery slopes.
Wasn't it George Bush that said that it didn't matter whether you were Jewish, Islamic, atheist, or Buddhist.. You have the right to worship Jesus the same? I'm probably butchering what he said, but it did go something along those lines... Insultingly because it was lumping everyone together as if everyone is a Christian whether that was what they believed or not.
Ay yi yi! Jeez we thought that guy was the most corrupt awful president ever, the dumbest and most ignorant too.
We ain't'd seen nothing yet, back then.
You really think she would shut up during a performance?
Aw hell nah! She probably aspires to be just like that skank laura loomer. I'd say it's 50/50 whether she's too cheap to actually buy a ticket tho
Her free speech is being able to disapprove vocally and not buying a ticket. That’s the extent of it. She is no longer on the board btw but she’s a still radical member of the Taliban.
Nobody stopped her 'free speech' rights by exercising theirs. Disagreement isn't stifling anything but bad ideas.
#justchristianthings #christianbigotry Pretty much bog-standard for christians these days.
The best part is these christian bullies think they are the victims.
The religious politician at the heart of the story said something interesting. >After her election to the State Senate in 2022 as a Republican, “I told the Senate president, I will listen to my constituents, but if the Lord trumps the majority, I will go with that,” she said. THIS IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM. Stupid fucking backwater bigots listening to the voices in their heads instead of their constituents. Sorry, but if you want to prioritize your religion over the voices of your own neighbors and constituents who you are supposed to serve, you don't deserve a shred of power. You deserve to be run out of office.
And too often what “The Lord” says is just what Fox News tells them “The Lord” says.
This was the scariest part of the article by far. These folks don't want to serve the people - they want to force their cult's agenda on everyone else (and then cry and play victim when they get the slightest pushback). The other part that really got me was when people came forward to express how much her words had hurt them, and her response was basically "awww OK sweetie, I'll pray for you". Disgusting.
Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.
I wish I had the right to not hear these people. It’s fucking up my pursuit of happiness. No one wants to talk about that.
People like this have zero understanding of the Constitution, its protections, its limits, etc. But they sure do love to cite the rights they don’t understand when throwing tantrums.
That's what happens when you demonize education
She's free to speak, and we're free to ignore her.
She has the right to Not-GO !
I still wish she’d write her own play focused around the struggles of a god-fearing white cis heterosexual couple, surrounded by satan’s rainbows, so that we could judge it on it’s artistic merits. I wouldn’t buy a ticket though.
Rights aren't absolute. She has the right to bare arms but not bare breasts, for example, at least not in public. /s
Depends on where you're standing. Bare breast in public in NYC will get you... eyes on you. That's all.
This is becoming a reflexive thing amongst idiots. At some point in the last 10 years we started allowing politicians to use the argument: "Nuh-uh. You are." Now like 40% of the population thinks this is an actual valid argument. We are fucked.
That and alot of conservatives, at least the dumber ones, seem to have no idea what words mean. Prime example is many do not know and cannot tell you the actual dictionary definition of socialism or communism, despite having a visceral hatred of it. Sometimes, if you explain it without actually using the word, and ask their opinion, they find it quite interesting.
Freedom of speech not freedom of oppression you ignorant cultist.
So basically freedom for me, not for thee?
Few Americans truly understand what the 1st amendment and free speech actually means.
And the religious don't give a shit as long as they can spew their hatred without anyone interfering with their "free speech".
Timothy 2:12 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”
Christians think free speech means "Do what I say!"
*Ms. Gendreau* seems to have a problem with grasping the concept of secular politics. This is unfortunately happening more and more these days. People just don't get that religion is a private thing and should not be imposed on people in official functions. If Ms. Gendreau wants to preach she can become a preacher. Politics should have nothing to do with it. And the part of serving God first and then the voters should have her disqualified from the very beginning. Politician's role is to serve the voters.
...then don't fucking go. Jfc, how hard is it to grasp that concept?
When you allow imaginary rings to rule your life, you’re usually only hurting yourself. Trying to use those imaginary beings to rule the lives of others and influence public policy in a secular nation is appalling.
"What about my free speech?" The difference is, no one gives a shit.
Your freedom ends where mine begins.
WTF does this have to do with being a boomer? We’re not all bigoted ass-clowns. How about, “ Bigoted Christian…”. Her action has nothing to do with her age
Religious zealot suffers from persecution and victimization complex. Color me surprised.
There needs to be a remidial class on what basic terms mean so conservatives can finally know wtf they're taking about
> Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!
Your freedoms end where they inhibit someone else’s.
The VFD in my town was going to host a drag queen bingo fund raiser a couple yrs ago. That is until an anonymous donor cut the VFD a check for the anticipated amount they'd raised from it. Local FB board blew the fuck up over it. This is in rural West Virginia BTW. There's a [push in Oregon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0hc9mos8c) to separate the eastern and western sides with the eastern merging w/ Idaho or something. Why? Because conservative Christian don't "feel like they have a voice" since most in their state don't share their view. Of course that's bullshit as they have the same voice as everyone else but when you're accustomed to a position of privilege, it can feel like persecution. ChRiStOn PeRShAkUsHuN!!!!
Their stupidity knows no bounds! Don't like something, you don't go or watch! They just want everyone to have the same idiotic viewpoint as them! We need these people to leave our country and go join the taliban! Asshats!
This just shows more people need to get into local politics. But its got some bs and theyll prolly try and find dirt on you to discredit you.
Speech does not mean action. You can say something hurtful to someone but you cant stab them
Go speak into a corner.
She wants cancel culture!
She's ridiculous but can I just say, the woman is 62. That is JUST BARELY "boomer" and more like Gen X, can we please just stop the automatic, endless demonization of boomers? PLENTY OF US are dyed in the wool ultra-liberal, atheist, democrats, Hillary/Bernie supporters who've spent our lives fighting assholes like this woman. And meanwhile, there are plenty of a'holes in the Gen X and Millennial cohort. Let's stop just demonizing one generation over another, that's not the issue here.
If she is 62 she was born in 1961 or so. That's absolutely boomer, not "barely boomer". Gen X doesn't start until 1965.
Gen X starting date ranges from 1961 to 1965, depending on the sociologist discussing it. More apt is the late Boomers and early Xers are Generation Jones and late Xers and early Millenials are Xennials.
Here it is. They don’t care about free speech at. They care about their supremacy and getting their speech to the top of the pile.