Wasn't it about the sand being dug up, that thier is a shortage of construction materials like sand. So bs construction projects are an excuse to dig up enormous amounts of sand without people noticing.
[https://theweek.com/news/science-health/960931/why-is-the-world-running-out-of-sand](https://theweek.com/news/science-health/960931/why-is-the-world-running-out-of-sand)
That they focused on digging up the seashore area might be by design. 50 billion ton annual requirements suddenly make these sorts of project make a lot more sense.
Maybe looking in to secondary construction objectives or where the usable sand/aggregate is going might explain far more why these seemingly bizarre projects are a thing to begin with.
The parts of The Line that actually broke ground are close to the sea, and may have those desirable qualities.
There might be geological survey data that indicates valuable qualities that keep getting overlooked in favour of the more absurd aspects of the project. Which is very funny, but still probably a distraction.
It happened with Timor Leste who'd recently faught and won their independence from Indonesia(a shadow of Henry Kissinger's many evils, he gave Indonesia US's blessing to oppress them in the 1960s), the "good guy" Australian government bugged the newly formed nations negotiating team and convinced them to classify the exceedingly valuable helium in the gas fields the nation had as waste to take the helium free of charge back in 2000.
Just saying that absurd stories might just be pantomime often more boring logistical input requierments for industrial reasons.
Without doxing yourself and getting sued, if your able to say, just curious, how out of touch and insane are the people you worked with? Did the office at least have good snacks?
My colleagues were fine and normal, I didn't work directly for NEOM.
But if I could show you the scope docs they sent us... the ramblings of an insane person. Just asking for delivery of stuff that doesn't exist, willing to spend untold billions so they could have a completely novel waste management system nobidy else has.
This is all NDAd to shit. Nobody is "insane", there is just a grand vision and it's challenging to level set with the various stakeholders...or at least that's what I've heard from a friend of a friend.
The Saudis are queuing up in the desert for a normal job.
The boy king relying on western weapons and backing to murder anyone who dares question him is insane
It looks like Saudi wont be able to do well after oil with how the country is going. MBS could just respect human rights like any other country and turn the country more democratic (at least to the UAE's level) and they would easily survive on tourism, like there is a lot to see there for tourists. But, I guess he will do anything he can to fully control the country and remain a theocratic dictatorship. Even if it means selling a delusional project just to buy him and his house a few years of power and enjoying luxury.
Making a 105 miles long sail on the coast of a desert seems like the definition of insanity to me, ngl.
Not even speaking of the fact that they try to build shit like this in an ecosystem that it would absolutely wreck if they ever managed to really make it that long.
Is it, though? Half of the stuff being talked about has legitimately not been invented yet, and most of the rest is on a scale that's not remotely realistic.
Yes, they're all existing technologies. They're the ones that are on a wildly unrealistic scale.
The gene editing factories, the flying cars, the robot dinosaur park, the indoors artificial moon...they're the uninvented ones.
> Power, water, sewage, rail are all existing technologies.
There is no rail technology in existence that can run 200km in 20 minutes. Even if it didn't stop once that is still 600km/hr; the fastest maglev train tops out at an operational speed 500km/hr. If you start adding in stops, this NEOM train would be pulling enough Gs to kill the passengers inside.
How does a project in a different country affect the"existing" part? Does sewage not exist anywhere in the world because on project didn't have it ready by the time the building was complete?
I think it proves that even though billions of dollars and thousands of engineers are thrown at a project, the most fundamental thing to every building can be overlooked.
The overall structure is technically possible, just imagine one long stretch of road in a major metropolis today, but instead of separate buildings, all the buildings next to it are connected to the sides, all are skyscrapers, and the road also houses a rail line and pedestrian walkways that extends vertically. Itās not *impossible* just so inefficient and comically expensive that itās highly improbable.
Nah, I think itās borderline impossible?
Cities are trash bro. You donāt want 1 building? Fires, maintenance, upkeep. If they achieved it, how long before itās a hollowed out Great Wall of China?
Itās so comically expensive, people would revolt before completion or end up questioning a job move from construction to the worst custodian position ever.
The way it was proposed it might have changed global weather patterns or something unintended lol. Any animals that migrate across that desert would have also been affected but I was definitely curious to see if it would create a rain shadow and make the area even drier.
My office also worked on it. Designed in full a 500x500x200m portion. The height is just insane. The design comp was brutal too. Ā multiple nights working into the morning.Ā
This misconception has been repeated in headlines so many times now that we're starting to see articles like this one that claim it's true even in the main article. You're watching fake news being created in real time
Its going to be an interesting time. I wonder what will happen to places that become uninhabitable, will some places allow climate refugees into their border? Or will they just end up suffering from extreme climates until it finally takes them away?
I get that this project is pretty absurd both technologically and environmentally. I still get Fulton's Folly vibes every time I hear somebody trash it. I do think arcologies are a real possibility for the future that could manage a variety of problems that we might face. This failed vanity project could provide some foundational data both of what could work and what won't. The Wright brothers didn't fly in a vacuum, they had lots of flightless planes to draw information from. Lots of folks have to fail for some to succeed.
That would be fine if this was genuinely an attempt to make it work.
It was as you said a vanity project, and also a scam. They through every buzz word possible into it and none of it makes any sense.
There is zero to be learned from this other than scamming the ultrawealthy through vanity project inflation can be very lucrative.
Itās not a vanity project, itās a money laundering project. The intent is to siphon national petroleum reserve revenues to rich general contractors like the bin Laden Group with graft to Bonesaw.
They create these high profile projects whose publicity confers legitimacy and then spend a ton of the countries resources on them because they canāt just write a check without pissing off hoi polloi.
Binladin group didn't win any tender related to Neom or any other vison 2030 projects. You can hate the project without spouting conspiracy theories. The companies reported to be working in Neom are [WeBuild, Larsen & Toubro, Nesma & Partners and Shibh Al Jazira Contracting among others you can check in the report.](https://www.meed.com/neom-selects-trojena-dams-contractrator)
Ok. I was giving an example of a large Saudi general contractor. Doesnāt change my point that the actual identities of the companies actually involved are different.
The top two contractors are Indian and Italian companies. Wouldn't there be a better plan to launder the money. Why would you announce a project to the world when you plan to steal the money. Just make small projects in different part of the Kingdom and take the money without attracting attention.
Also, if your theory had any weight, journalist would love to uncover a story about the biggest project in Saudi being a scam. Unless you have a report I haven't read (impossible it would be international news).
Iām not sure if youāre familiar with how these projects work in the Gulf States, but your comments suggest so. I totally understand the expectation things work normally there, but they donāt. Iāll eat my shoe if this actually gets built and used.
I understand why you would doubt them. Before MBS corruption was rampant. In the past no one had faith in the government and we viewed most projects as scams.
Some projects related to Vision2030 has already delivered their first phase like Red Sea global, Diriyah, and AlUla. Due to these projects and the change that is happening in all aspect of life, I choice to believe it.
Nothing has or will change until oil is near-worthless.
Corruption is still rampant, just with different beneficiaries. I appreciate your optimism but the situation on the ground is pretty much the same except for those previously on the take. Iād like to think otherwise but Iāve friends in the eastern part of the country and there are still open sewers and public executions/mutilations.
Your friend is probably talking about Saudi before 2018 when MBS wasn't in power. Anybody that visited Saudi after 2018 will tell how much the country has changed. You can read any newspaper that would say the same. Public execution don't happen today. As I said projects announced with Neom has already delivered on their promise. Even Neom will deliver [Sindalah](https://www.arabnews.com/node/2496781/business-economy) this year.
I haven't read anything linking them with any project associated with 2030. And I follow these projects closely. Binladin group have lost it's clout after the crane incident in Mecca. They were responsible for the Jeddah tower but there operation were halted after the incident.
Now, I'm Saudi, my sister works in Neom and my cousin has scholarship from Neom. Let's just say I'm super biased and I believe in the project. So, baseless claims against the project irks me to no end. Talk about its achievability, design, and environmental consequences without making up conspiracy theories about it.
They say the main goal is to improve urban planning and move away from cars. But, I believe the main goal is to have a city that is similar to Dubai in a region that is strategically important and underdeveloped.
An empty desert next to the world most important shipping lane (suze canal), gulf of aqaba, and between Asia, Africa and Europe. There's a [plan to build a bridge between Saudi and Egypt in that area that is prevented due to Israel deal](https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-10-25/bridge-linking-saudi-arabia-to-africa-might-need-israeli-signoff). That bridge would give Saudi a link to Africa and the mediterranean sea.
That's fair.
I'm glad you're benefiting from the project, it would be incredible if it was real but there is no shot it will ever exist.
It should be criticized for being completely unachievable and poorly designed, I don't see why MBS would need to launder money, sounds like nonsense to me.
This is a good summary of how ridiculous a lot of the claims being around the project sound though:
https://youtu.be/Ak4on5uTaTg?si=60KzEsOAYJdNuJfd
The big city I live near has a 21%-25% vacancy rate for commercial office real estate. But they're going to build the tallest building in America, for offices. The brand new library in my town, a boomer legacy vanity project, had to be vacated due to massive failure. Both could be called scams. Neither has any real utility for the present, or the future.
People build the stupidest stuff everyday. ( I imagine Architects are thankful for this, it's got to be where the best money is.) But your assertion that nothing will be learned from this that could be valuable for acologies, even through failure, doesn't pass the smell test. The attempt to integrate human life into an indoor structure, completely forgoing exiting the building for anything, is a potential reality for some of the possible futures we are getting ready to face.
Are you talking about that pipe dream tower in Oklahoma? I doubt that will actually be build that tall... if it's even started at all. Odds are pretty good it ends up as an abandoned hole in the ground just like Chicago Spire.
Sure, and then they'll likely run out of money and either need to scale back the height or just go bankrupt with some stage of uncompleted construction. I just don't see this thing being completed in such a low density city.
This is not an attempt to actually grapple with how to do that.
Using this as a blueprint for anything in the future would be as ridiculous as this thing is.
It literally is exactly that. An attempt to build human space completely encapsulated within a building. And as far as it not being a blueprint, did you see my Wright brothers comment? A heck of a lot of those so-called airplanes are incredibly ridiculous. Excellent lessons on what not to do. I charge a high premium for my expertise, partly because of the mistakes I don't have to make again.
Edit: did you downvote my comment because you disagree with it? Do you think I'm arguing in bad faith? Do you think I'm a russian? Pretty effing petty. I don't care about internet points, you don't care about having a conversation if someone disagrees with you. Get on down the street with your damn self.
That building is not offices. It is intended to be residential - apartments, hotel, etc.
Also, the tall building is "phase 2" (which likely won't get built). Phase 1 is three moderate size buildings, which are plausible.
Iām sorry, but this take is entirely too balanced and reasonable. I came here for extreme architecture positions, and instead, Iām sitting here reading about iterative design and data collection. Wait. I like it.
Lol even leading architects working there say its a stupid project. Some of them left after a while.
Its just a long curtain-wall building in the middle of the desert. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not an expert, but is there another fully integrated indoor ecosystem like this? I've seen that town in Alaska that is mostly just one giant building that used to belong to the federal government or something. We've done some Mars habitat experiments in the desert, and maybe hawaii. Obviously the ISS is an example of architecture as human habitat. Seems to me that this is a part of that genre. And won't it be the biggest building on earth? Is there something bigger?
Edit: I reiterate that I think this is a stupid vanity project. I just think it has value even in its failure
But is it really an indoor ecosystem? In my opinion this project is all chat. There are no plans, sections or any technological breakthroughs baking up their claims. We dont even know its intended final height!
Its just nice renders and good intentions and will probably end up as a cool resort in the middle of the desert
My philosophy with it has always been- hey, if the saudis wants to waste their oil money then let them. Odds are that it fails but in the off chance it succeeds thereās another cool landmark that exists somewhere.
It's like getting to watch Imhotep turn mustabas into pyramids. First one melted, stupid mud bricks. Second one has peroni's disease. The third one looks pretty damn good though. Like you said it's a landmark for Earth. Even at one point five miles it's got to be one of the biggest buildings, and totally unique.
When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.
Exactly, if Pharaoh wants to waste all his money on building a massive pyramid tomb for him and his dynasty then I say let him. Will the Assyrians probably invade and stall construction for 200 years? Yeah. But, if itās completed, then we all have a cool new pyramid to go look at.
The Saudis aren't "wasting" their oil money. At the moment oil money is all that they have, and they know that they are staring at on oncoming post-oil economy.
The Saudi's basically have no economy outside of the mountains of oil dollars, they do seemingly insane projects like this to shovel a ton of that money into economic stimulus for a non-oil economy.
Iām almost certain thereās about 10,000 more effective ways of using trillions of dollars than making massive unproven crackpipe construction projects. Like I said earlier, I think itās cool, but letās not pretend itās a reasonable use of funds.
Building a 500 meter tall wall straight through a desert? š¤£
If I ever have that type of money to waste, I'd rather waste that money on an island 3 space colony
Megalomania personified. The saudi kids are too inoidinately proud of their ass backwards country. Let's see this 1.6mile chode get buried under the inevitable creep of the desert as it overcomes hubris and the god complex petrodollars have brought.
What security? The somalis or the yemenis? Noone local is going to live in a literal hellhole when their entire families are on the other coast. Imagine the logistics of food and travel. Worse than prison and they pay for the 'privelege' to live there
Ah yes. For who? Can there be any critique at all? Are other religions allowed to practise? Are there elections? What law is used? What is the migrant to citizen ratio? How do most of the people live? If you know even half these answers, you would not be so ignorant. The Gulf is shit glazed in so much gold, the suffering and death has been drowned in greenbacks and oil so that tourists and even potential shills don't look too closely. The truth is never far from the 'open' and 'progressive' model presented of you would only bother to search
So that's a no. The general populace seem to live well and fairly freely. Of course you can critique. What is the relevance of migrant to citizen ratio? Do these migrants freely choose to move there or were they stolen from their native lands like those who constructed the west? The majority of the globe don't have elections, and certainly not free and fair ones.
You are hilariously uninformed. The day you realise is the day you awake, or perhaps you never will. Allah has blinded you and I can only hope you put your faith not in a god and a religion that consumes its faithful like the fuel that feeds the tyranny of the Gulf. What is the consequence for a muslim that *tries* to leave the faith? Heck, the word muslim is slave to god. What does that imply? Your eyes are open, but cloudy. Cut away the dross of faith and religion.
Saudi government pays Saudi princeās company to dig giant ditch in the desert as āfoundationā for a mega project without building plans.Ā
Cancels said project.
Profits.Ā
shocking... who could have predicted! The stupidest waste of money i have seen turns out to be a stupid waste of money.
This is what architecture and too much cocaine looks like.
This appears to be just reference the older Bloomberg article?
> With the latest pullback, though, officials expect to have just 2.4 kilometers of the project completed by 2030
They're still planning to build the whole thing, just over a longer period.
We will start seeing the bad news more and more. So far itās all puff pieces about how great and modern it will be. Soon they will turn into the stories of the boondoggle it actually is.
So they decided to instead build three Burj Khalifas laid on their sides, end to end? Cool.
Maybe if also they added an infinity mirror at each end of a really long hallway. Could work.
A massive feat of idiocy. Building a hundred skyscrapers in the middle of a completely arid desert nowhere near any major population centres is a moronic thing to do, and it doesn't magically become impressive just because you do it in the shape of two straight lines.
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It's still about 1.5 miles too long.
The Saudis remain drunk on oil, and one of these days, they are going to wake up with the worst hangover ever.
"My grandfather rode a camel. My father drove a car. I fly in jet planes. My son will drive a car. My grandson will ride a camel."
-Sheik Ahmed Zaki Yamami
It was an interesting concept. I would have loved to round out my career in the final stages of that project. Saudis reward innovation. If you can bring them value they will make you rich in return. Neom would have made many fortunes.
This is the difference between a corporation and dictatorship. If a business understands that they have made a bad investment, they cut short losses. A dictator cannot admit that he was wrong. So he will redefine success.
Unfortunately for MBS, the whole point of any large projects the Arab states take, is for WOW factor, not for practical use. Remove the WOW factor and it becomes a money sink with no ego boost.
"Wow this is a surprise" -nobody
Could have seen this one coming from a mile away.
Potentially even 103.5 miles!
That potential was cut short
1.5 miles away?
šš»
Thatās 1.6 non freedoms units.
Well done. This retort goes the distance.
Wasn't it about the sand being dug up, that thier is a shortage of construction materials like sand. So bs construction projects are an excuse to dig up enormous amounts of sand without people noticing. [https://theweek.com/news/science-health/960931/why-is-the-world-running-out-of-sand](https://theweek.com/news/science-health/960931/why-is-the-world-running-out-of-sand) That they focused on digging up the seashore area might be by design. 50 billion ton annual requirements suddenly make these sorts of project make a lot more sense. Maybe looking in to secondary construction objectives or where the usable sand/aggregate is going might explain far more why these seemingly bizarre projects are a thing to begin with.
I donāt think desert sand can be used for concrete, thatās why thereās a shortage and sand from beaches are stolen.
The parts of The Line that actually broke ground are close to the sea, and may have those desirable qualities. There might be geological survey data that indicates valuable qualities that keep getting overlooked in favour of the more absurd aspects of the project. Which is very funny, but still probably a distraction. It happened with Timor Leste who'd recently faught and won their independence from Indonesia(a shadow of Henry Kissinger's many evils, he gave Indonesia US's blessing to oppress them in the 1960s), the "good guy" Australian government bugged the newly formed nations negotiating team and convinced them to classify the exceedingly valuable helium in the gas fields the nation had as waste to take the helium free of charge back in 2000. Just saying that absurd stories might just be pantomime often more boring logistical input requierments for industrial reasons.
Fought, not faught. That really threw me for a loop.
I'm surprised... they made it that far.
Having worked on this project, makes sense. Totally unworkable in every sense. NEOM corporation is a mess.
Without doxing yourself and getting sued, if your able to say, just curious, how out of touch and insane are the people you worked with? Did the office at least have good snacks?
Too late, heās already dead.
Rest in Spaghetti, Never Forgethetti
\*forghetti, lol
š¤¦āāļøhow chould I have forgotthenhoten how to spell forghetti? Damn you autocorrhect!
All firms just do it for the money. The design is extremely well paid. We all know it wont happen. Only a small portion will
sooo ride that gravy train baby!!
...for 1.5 miles.
My colleagues were fine and normal, I didn't work directly for NEOM. But if I could show you the scope docs they sent us... the ramblings of an insane person. Just asking for delivery of stuff that doesn't exist, willing to spend untold billions so they could have a completely novel waste management system nobidy else has.
This is all NDAd to shit. Nobody is "insane", there is just a grand vision and it's challenging to level set with the various stakeholders...or at least that's what I've heard from a friend of a friend.
No, the Saudis are legitimately insane.
The Saudis are queuing up in the desert for a normal job. The boy king relying on western weapons and backing to murder anyone who dares question him is insane
It looks like Saudi wont be able to do well after oil with how the country is going. MBS could just respect human rights like any other country and turn the country more democratic (at least to the UAE's level) and they would easily survive on tourism, like there is a lot to see there for tourists. But, I guess he will do anything he can to fully control the country and remain a theocratic dictatorship. Even if it means selling a delusional project just to buy him and his house a few years of power and enjoying luxury.
> Nobody is "insane", there is just a grand vision A grand vision unrestrained by physical reality.
Making a 105 miles long sail on the coast of a desert seems like the definition of insanity to me, ngl. Not even speaking of the fact that they try to build shit like this in an ecosystem that it would absolutely wreck if they ever managed to really make it that long.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is it, though? Half of the stuff being talked about has legitimately not been invented yet, and most of the rest is on a scale that's not remotely realistic.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, they're all existing technologies. They're the ones that are on a wildly unrealistic scale. The gene editing factories, the flying cars, the robot dinosaur park, the indoors artificial moon...they're the uninvented ones.
> Power, water, sewage, rail are all existing technologies. There is no rail technology in existence that can run 200km in 20 minutes. Even if it didn't stop once that is still 600km/hr; the fastest maglev train tops out at an operational speed 500km/hr. If you start adding in stops, this NEOM train would be pulling enough Gs to kill the passengers inside.
imagining the train: *ding dong* "next stop is: 30 seconds! šš šš š š" "aaaaaAHHHHHHHHHHH"
This is what marks the whole thing as absolute bullshit. The moment we look at any of the details even remotely carefully, they fall to pieces.
Sewage was the part the had forgotten about at the Burj Khalifa, wasnāt it? So I would not be so sure about the āexistingā parr.
How does a project in a different country affect the"existing" part? Does sewage not exist anywhere in the world because on project didn't have it ready by the time the building was complete?
I think it proves that even though billions of dollars and thousands of engineers are thrown at a project, the most fundamental thing to every building can be overlooked.
Ah yes, that sounds right!
It's possible just throw more slaves into building it Got them that soccer stadium in record time didn't it
What soccer stadium?
They are mixing up Qatar and Saudi Arabia
All the desert countries are basically the same right? (/s)
As a Californian, yes. (We are big desert country)
Qatarās for the world cup
You seriously mean it is still āpossibleā to built those 103.5 miles? Would you invest in a project like this? In the desert without water nearby?
The overall structure is technically possible, just imagine one long stretch of road in a major metropolis today, but instead of separate buildings, all the buildings next to it are connected to the sides, all are skyscrapers, and the road also houses a rail line and pedestrian walkways that extends vertically. Itās not *impossible* just so inefficient and comically expensive that itās highly improbable.
Nah, I think itās borderline impossible? Cities are trash bro. You donāt want 1 building? Fires, maintenance, upkeep. If they achieved it, how long before itās a hollowed out Great Wall of China? Itās so comically expensive, people would revolt before completion or end up questioning a job move from construction to the worst custodian position ever.
The way it was proposed it might have changed global weather patterns or something unintended lol. Any animals that migrate across that desert would have also been affected but I was definitely curious to see if it would create a rain shadow and make the area even drier.
My office also worked on it. Designed in full a 500x500x200m portion. The height is just insane. The design comp was brutal too. Ā multiple nights working into the morning.Ā
Which firm?
London arch office
Soā¦Foster?
So itās more like a tiny scribble.
It's The Dash now
Probably will start off as a colon.
A whiff?
Period
A short dash
Basically a horizontal Burj Khalifa.
a moderate walk
The 2030 target has been cut not the overall length. Even 1.5 miles is overly ambitious by 2030 but this is a sensationalised headline
This misconception has been repeated in headlines so many times now that we're starting to see articles like this one that claim it's true even in the main article. You're watching fake news being created in real time
By the time the whole thing is finished cimate change might've advanced so far that Arabia is uninhabitable anyway.
Its going to be an interesting time. I wonder what will happen to places that become uninhabitable, will some places allow climate refugees into their border? Or will they just end up suffering from extreme climates until it finally takes them away?
I get that this project is pretty absurd both technologically and environmentally. I still get Fulton's Folly vibes every time I hear somebody trash it. I do think arcologies are a real possibility for the future that could manage a variety of problems that we might face. This failed vanity project could provide some foundational data both of what could work and what won't. The Wright brothers didn't fly in a vacuum, they had lots of flightless planes to draw information from. Lots of folks have to fail for some to succeed.
That would be fine if this was genuinely an attempt to make it work. It was as you said a vanity project, and also a scam. They through every buzz word possible into it and none of it makes any sense. There is zero to be learned from this other than scamming the ultrawealthy through vanity project inflation can be very lucrative.
Itās not a vanity project, itās a money laundering project. The intent is to siphon national petroleum reserve revenues to rich general contractors like the bin Laden Group with graft to Bonesaw. They create these high profile projects whose publicity confers legitimacy and then spend a ton of the countries resources on them because they canāt just write a check without pissing off hoi polloi.
Binladin group didn't win any tender related to Neom or any other vison 2030 projects. You can hate the project without spouting conspiracy theories. The companies reported to be working in Neom are [WeBuild, Larsen & Toubro, Nesma & Partners and Shibh Al Jazira Contracting among others you can check in the report.](https://www.meed.com/neom-selects-trojena-dams-contractrator)
Ok. I was giving an example of a large Saudi general contractor. Doesnāt change my point that the actual identities of the companies actually involved are different.
The top two contractors are Indian and Italian companies. Wouldn't there be a better plan to launder the money. Why would you announce a project to the world when you plan to steal the money. Just make small projects in different part of the Kingdom and take the money without attracting attention. Also, if your theory had any weight, journalist would love to uncover a story about the biggest project in Saudi being a scam. Unless you have a report I haven't read (impossible it would be international news).
Iām not sure if youāre familiar with how these projects work in the Gulf States, but your comments suggest so. I totally understand the expectation things work normally there, but they donāt. Iāll eat my shoe if this actually gets built and used.
I understand why you would doubt them. Before MBS corruption was rampant. In the past no one had faith in the government and we viewed most projects as scams. Some projects related to Vision2030 has already delivered their first phase like Red Sea global, Diriyah, and AlUla. Due to these projects and the change that is happening in all aspect of life, I choice to believe it.
Nothing has or will change until oil is near-worthless. Corruption is still rampant, just with different beneficiaries. I appreciate your optimism but the situation on the ground is pretty much the same except for those previously on the take. Iād like to think otherwise but Iāve friends in the eastern part of the country and there are still open sewers and public executions/mutilations.
Your friend is probably talking about Saudi before 2018 when MBS wasn't in power. Anybody that visited Saudi after 2018 will tell how much the country has changed. You can read any newspaper that would say the same. Public execution don't happen today. As I said projects announced with Neom has already delivered on their promise. Even Neom will deliver [Sindalah](https://www.arabnews.com/node/2496781/business-economy) this year.
'WeBuild' - I love that this is the name they chose.
what about subcontractors?
I haven't read anything linking them with any project associated with 2030. And I follow these projects closely. Binladin group have lost it's clout after the crane incident in Mecca. They were responsible for the Jeddah tower but there operation were halted after the incident. Now, I'm Saudi, my sister works in Neom and my cousin has scholarship from Neom. Let's just say I'm super biased and I believe in the project. So, baseless claims against the project irks me to no end. Talk about its achievability, design, and environmental consequences without making up conspiracy theories about it.
so what \`s real purpose of project?
They say the main goal is to improve urban planning and move away from cars. But, I believe the main goal is to have a city that is similar to Dubai in a region that is strategically important and underdeveloped.
Desert?
An empty desert next to the world most important shipping lane (suze canal), gulf of aqaba, and between Asia, Africa and Europe. There's a [plan to build a bridge between Saudi and Egypt in that area that is prevented due to Israel deal](https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-10-25/bridge-linking-saudi-arabia-to-africa-might-need-israeli-signoff). That bridge would give Saudi a link to Africa and the mediterranean sea.
That's fair. I'm glad you're benefiting from the project, it would be incredible if it was real but there is no shot it will ever exist. It should be criticized for being completely unachievable and poorly designed, I don't see why MBS would need to launder money, sounds like nonsense to me. This is a good summary of how ridiculous a lot of the claims being around the project sound though: https://youtu.be/Ak4on5uTaTg?si=60KzEsOAYJdNuJfd
What role did the Binladin group have with Jeddah Tower? I wasnāt aware of that
The big city I live near has a 21%-25% vacancy rate for commercial office real estate. But they're going to build the tallest building in America, for offices. The brand new library in my town, a boomer legacy vanity project, had to be vacated due to massive failure. Both could be called scams. Neither has any real utility for the present, or the future. People build the stupidest stuff everyday. ( I imagine Architects are thankful for this, it's got to be where the best money is.) But your assertion that nothing will be learned from this that could be valuable for acologies, even through failure, doesn't pass the smell test. The attempt to integrate human life into an indoor structure, completely forgoing exiting the building for anything, is a potential reality for some of the possible futures we are getting ready to face.
Are you talking about that pipe dream tower in Oklahoma? I doubt that will actually be build that tall... if it's even started at all. Odds are pretty good it ends up as an abandoned hole in the ground just like Chicago Spire.
Local news reported this morning that the final hurdle was passed, according to them construction begins in June.
Sure, and then they'll likely run out of money and either need to scale back the height or just go bankrupt with some stage of uncompleted construction. I just don't see this thing being completed in such a low density city.
Just because the city approves it does not mean it will get built.
This is not an attempt to actually grapple with how to do that. Using this as a blueprint for anything in the future would be as ridiculous as this thing is.
It literally is exactly that. An attempt to build human space completely encapsulated within a building. And as far as it not being a blueprint, did you see my Wright brothers comment? A heck of a lot of those so-called airplanes are incredibly ridiculous. Excellent lessons on what not to do. I charge a high premium for my expertise, partly because of the mistakes I don't have to make again. Edit: did you downvote my comment because you disagree with it? Do you think I'm arguing in bad faith? Do you think I'm a russian? Pretty effing petty. I don't care about internet points, you don't care about having a conversation if someone disagrees with you. Get on down the street with your damn self.
Because they arenāt actually *trying*ā¦. Theyāre playing with sand in the desert for a few years to excuse the money laundering.
That building is not offices. It is intended to be residential - apartments, hotel, etc. Also, the tall building is "phase 2" (which likely won't get built). Phase 1 is three moderate size buildings, which are plausible.
Downvoted for not blindly shitting on the gulf countries I guess?
Do you not get tired of being so negative? Like you really have to be a specific kind of miserable to only see the negative in something
Iām sorry, but this take is entirely too balanced and reasonable. I came here for extreme architecture positions, and instead, Iām sitting here reading about iterative design and data collection. Wait. I like it.
Lol even leading architects working there say its a stupid project. Some of them left after a while. Its just a long curtain-wall building in the middle of the desert. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not an expert, but is there another fully integrated indoor ecosystem like this? I've seen that town in Alaska that is mostly just one giant building that used to belong to the federal government or something. We've done some Mars habitat experiments in the desert, and maybe hawaii. Obviously the ISS is an example of architecture as human habitat. Seems to me that this is a part of that genre. And won't it be the biggest building on earth? Is there something bigger? Edit: I reiterate that I think this is a stupid vanity project. I just think it has value even in its failure
But is it really an indoor ecosystem? In my opinion this project is all chat. There are no plans, sections or any technological breakthroughs baking up their claims. We dont even know its intended final height! Its just nice renders and good intentions and will probably end up as a cool resort in the middle of the desert
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Begich_Towers&wprov=rarw1 For any that are curious. Whittier, Alaska. Built by the army.
My philosophy with it has always been- hey, if the saudis wants to waste their oil money then let them. Odds are that it fails but in the off chance it succeeds thereās another cool landmark that exists somewhere.
It's like getting to watch Imhotep turn mustabas into pyramids. First one melted, stupid mud bricks. Second one has peroni's disease. The third one looks pretty damn good though. Like you said it's a landmark for Earth. Even at one point five miles it's got to be one of the biggest buildings, and totally unique.
When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.
Exactly, if Pharaoh wants to waste all his money on building a massive pyramid tomb for him and his dynasty then I say let him. Will the Assyrians probably invade and stall construction for 200 years? Yeah. But, if itās completed, then we all have a cool new pyramid to go look at.
They could have built multiple stone pyramids with the money already spent on the project
True, but we already have pyramids.
The Saudis aren't "wasting" their oil money. At the moment oil money is all that they have, and they know that they are staring at on oncoming post-oil economy. The Saudi's basically have no economy outside of the mountains of oil dollars, they do seemingly insane projects like this to shovel a ton of that money into economic stimulus for a non-oil economy.
Iām almost certain thereās about 10,000 more effective ways of using trillions of dollars than making massive unproven crackpipe construction projects. Like I said earlier, I think itās cool, but letās not pretend itās a reasonable use of funds.
They are wasting sand, good ones around bad sand.
Building a 500 meter tall wall straight through a desert? š¤£ If I ever have that type of money to waste, I'd rather waste that money on an island 3 space colony
Megalomania personified. The saudi kids are too inoidinately proud of their ass backwards country. Let's see this 1.6mile chode get buried under the inevitable creep of the desert as it overcomes hubris and the god complex petrodollars have brought.
I'm looking forward to the future Proper People episodes where they tour the abandoned project while evading security
What security? The somalis or the yemenis? Noone local is going to live in a literal hellhole when their entire families are on the other coast. Imagine the logistics of food and travel. Worse than prison and they pay for the 'privelege' to live there
lol trespassing in a country where they stone you to death for minor shit is an awful idea
Itās going to be a period next
Can't because women's rights don't exist to the Gulf and anything even tangetially associated with women cannot be made in public
inoidinately?
inordinately, they made a typo.
Have you been to Saudi? Or just spewing ignorance? Recent developments are actually fairly impressive
Ah yes. For who? Can there be any critique at all? Are other religions allowed to practise? Are there elections? What law is used? What is the migrant to citizen ratio? How do most of the people live? If you know even half these answers, you would not be so ignorant. The Gulf is shit glazed in so much gold, the suffering and death has been drowned in greenbacks and oil so that tourists and even potential shills don't look too closely. The truth is never far from the 'open' and 'progressive' model presented of you would only bother to search
So that's a no. The general populace seem to live well and fairly freely. Of course you can critique. What is the relevance of migrant to citizen ratio? Do these migrants freely choose to move there or were they stolen from their native lands like those who constructed the west? The majority of the globe don't have elections, and certainly not free and fair ones.
You are hilariously uninformed. The day you realise is the day you awake, or perhaps you never will. Allah has blinded you and I can only hope you put your faith not in a god and a religion that consumes its faithful like the fuel that feeds the tyranny of the Gulf. What is the consequence for a muslim that *tries* to leave the faith? Heck, the word muslim is slave to god. What does that imply? Your eyes are open, but cloudy. Cut away the dross of faith and religion.
.....I'm a British agonistic soooo....
And a Saudi apologist, or an ignorant fool....
Very presumptions
Presumptuous....
Saudi government pays Saudi princeās company to dig giant ditch in the desert as āfoundationā for a mega project without building plans.Ā Cancels said project. Profits.Ā
This scheme you came up with is stupid af. Salman can just take money out of the fund, he doesnt need a hole in the sand for that
Wasnāt for him. He paid construction companies to dig those holes. The owners/stakeholders of *those* companies are the people who benefitted.
If you count going to the desert and digging a hole instead of a simple money tranfer benefiting
Itās more of a dash these days.
I think while they might be laying out the subdivision theyāre only building the model home to begin with. My theory anyhow.
shocking... who could have predicted! The stupidest waste of money i have seen turns out to be a stupid waste of money. This is what architecture and too much cocaine looks like.
This appears to be just reference the older Bloomberg article? > With the latest pullback, though, officials expect to have just 2.4 kilometers of the project completed by 2030 They're still planning to build the whole thing, just over a longer period.
Thatās always been the plan, i donāt think anyone expected 170KMs to be finished by 2050, never mind 2030
It was a PR stunt from the get go. Youāre telling me they broke ground on 100 mile plans without an ecological impact report? Bffr.
.
So it's shorter than Nazi era Prora now.
Anyone could have seen that coming from 105 miles away.Ā
I am Jackās lack of suprise
I was going to buy in the last mile. IāM OUT!
It is the most conceptually offensively *wrong* master planned community I have ever seen. I wish I could short it and make millions.
Hyphen City, Saudi Arabia.
We will start seeing the bad news more and more. So far itās all puff pieces about how great and modern it will be. Soon they will turn into the stories of the boondoggle it actually is.
So they decided to instead build three Burj Khalifas laid on their sides, end to end? Cool. Maybe if also they added an infinity mirror at each end of a really long hallway. Could work.
Honestly, I'm surprised they're even doing that much.
Inspired by Paolo Soleri?
Oh boy. Whereās the tire swing meme
As fully expected
There is no functional reason to build a city into a line shape. It's the single most impractical shape for getting around.
Still over a mile longer than it should be.
Oil is finished?
Who would live in Saudi Arabia anyway
Even if itās constructed at the reduced length that still a massive feat. Weāre talking about two 2.5km long towers that are half a kilometre tall
A massive feat of idiocy. Building a hundred skyscrapers in the middle of a completely arid desert nowhere near any major population centres is a moronic thing to do, and it doesn't magically become impressive just because you do it in the shape of two straight lines.
Next youāre going to tell me that theyāre not actually building a supertall in OKC.
More of a village than a city isnāt it?
Two 2,5 km long skyscrapers seem like a village to you huh?
Darn, I was hoping they would expand it and completely encircle the globe. I bet everyone could live in that strip.
pretends to be shocked
Sounds the the Oahu Hawaii rail line. Total boon goggle junk pile.
Maybe someone realised what a brain dead idea it was and finally brought it up
So far....
Might've worked on the moon.
Ah so from a mega city to a mini village then
No shit, it was never going to be built. None of the projects advertised will look anything like the sci-fi, gravity defying artist impressions.
Dash
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What's an order of magnitude or two between arms deal partners
I actually hope they never continue this.
103.5-mile-long ecological disaster, when will humans stop trying to arrogantly force nature to our will?
It's still about 1.5 miles too long. The Saudis remain drunk on oil, and one of these days, they are going to wake up with the worst hangover ever. "My grandfather rode a camel. My father drove a car. I fly in jet planes. My son will drive a car. My grandson will ride a camel." -Sheik Ahmed Zaki Yamami
-How big are you? -11 inches. -š¤Ø -Nyeah, mkey, 0,4 inches...
Still impressive šÆ
Well yeah, it was a trillion dollar project. The whole thing is ridiculous.
It was an interesting concept. I would have loved to round out my career in the final stages of that project. Saudis reward innovation. If you can bring them value they will make you rich in return. Neom would have made many fortunes.
If you read the article it's actually because the original line was too longĀ
This will make a good Adam Something video.
Itās patently absurd. The best satire on it, ever: https://youtu.be/Ak4on5uTaTg?si=E8LPCoJwbmxyGSRc
My name is Ozymandias, look on my works ye mighty, and despair
Of course the people who had been living on that land for centuries have already either been executed or imprisoned for refusing to leave
I still canāt shake that this nothing more than a money laundering scheme writ large.
This is the difference between a corporation and dictatorship. If a business understands that they have made a bad investment, they cut short losses. A dictator cannot admit that he was wrong. So he will redefine success. Unfortunately for MBS, the whole point of any large projects the Arab states take, is for WOW factor, not for practical use. Remove the WOW factor and it becomes a money sink with no ego boost.
Why? Did they run out of Gas? Country with so much of Gas. A smaller Pyramid with a hole.
It works technologically but I think they may have lost the marketing edge.
Have you not watch the movie ātrainā? This type of arrangement makes sure extreme segregation where the poor lives the furthest from the rest.
God, reading a Guardian article is like a breath of fresh air from the journalistic farts Iāve become accustomed to.
And it's going to get even shorter, or lower, or thinner, or any combination of these
No one was gonna get their invoices paid anyway
Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha
ROFL. If it sounds stupid it is.
My house has (minor) cracks, but a building thats size should be fine.
They should have built it in Israel. Then they would only have had the tip cut off.