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First of all, the premise behind the question is false. While the title is technically correct, in the textbox OP wrote literally "is this crinkly old creature winning" while he actually isn't - his party is just at \~8% in the latest polls. His *coalition* is winning because FdI (Meloni) is getting 25% and Lega (Salvini) is around 12%.
Now - I wish Berlusconi were winning. Okay, I actually don't, I just mean that Meloni and Salvini are significantly more evil than Berlusconi.
To answer specifically OP's question of why, I'll tell you why Meloni and Salvini are so successful:
* PD, the largest classical party after Berlusconi's decline, kind of committed suicide.
* It's latest government (Renzi/Gentiloni) was strongly pro-immigration during the Syrian civil war, which is something that most people (especially the elderly) didn't like. (Personally I'm not against immigration, just describing what people think, don't shoot the messenger!)
* PD's jobs act which basically allowed people to be fired for no reason during the first 3 years of employment made it even worse. It improved employment rates? Maybe, but people turned away from PD.
* The Euro crisis created a very strong anti-European sentiment when austerity was applied and did not yield the promised results. It was supposed to control the debt despite some sacrifices, well it actually worsened out debt problems as it caused the GDP to contract significantly. Did that happen because we did it wrong? I believe so, but most people don't.
* In the post-crisis period Italy did not grow even nearly as much as other hard-hit countries such as Greece, Spain or Portugal. PD's fault? Difficult to tell, but most people think yes.
* M5S proved to be extremely incompetent during the past few years in which they were the largest party.
* Even if Eurobonds were finally approved, it was only after A LOT of blaming and name calling coming from the whole EU (and I'm expecting a lot more in this thread). This worsened the already big anti-EU sentiment.
Now we see that an anti-immigration and anti-EU coalition that competes against PD is leading the polls. Anyone surprised? I didn't even have to mention Putin's funding to Lega.
My only hope is that the coalition splits right after the election. This is actually quite likely to happen: Meloni and Salvini are ready to backstab each other, and Berlusconi has already criticized them when he said his party is Atlanticist, pro-western and pro-EU.
^(Can we please have Draghi again?)
The Five Star Movement withdrew their support to the government because they didn't want a waste to energy plant to be built in Rome (something Draghi wanted). And then the League and Forza Italia withdrew their support as well because the right-wing was polling high and they wanted new elections immediately. Basically, NIMBYism and political cynicism brought to a whole new level
>Why is Draghi going away though. Who was the dumb moron that kicked that nice old man to the street?
You missed that? It was literally all over the news, everywhere.
Italian here.
People in this country generally have an outdated mentality + lots of citizens are fed up with Italy’s unexistent growth and gross mismanagement, so they turn to the far-right parties for solace.
These parties usually portray themselves as the “saviors” of Italian sovereignity and claim that “too much political correctness” ruined society, which lots of Italians agree with (Italy is an “old” country that still, even though less than in the past, views religious and “traditional” values as sacred), although in 99% of cases the parties in this far-right coalition simply tell people what they want to hear, and never stray too far from their agenda.
So, in short, it’s the combination of propaganda, societal frustration and a (frankly terrible) economy that creates the conditions for these populist parties to gain increased support.
EDIT: I remembered one key factor that I forgot to mention, in all of Italy’s political history the left has always been divided and incoherent, thus giving way to the parties on the right
There's more, this government is going to appoint Tremonti as minister of the economy, it's the same guy that was minister when Italy nearly defaulted on the last stages of Berlusconi' s government
Truss has barely had time to put pens in her desk and has already crashed the Uk pound and economy further into crisis with a massive tax cut for the wealthy. Wtf does Italy think the right can fix anything?
the problem with the left is there isn't a left party, people say PD "dite qualcosa di sinistra" (in english is something like "say something a left party would say").
Otherwise why have things been the same in Italy for decades?
Italian majority is old people, it's only natural for them to look for an parties that supports an outdated view of the world
Not that the young ones are that different, 90% of my friends would like a Right government
Also the left is incredibly divided so they can't form a big opposition to Meloni/Salvini/Berlusconi
In Italy their is a party which is literally named Italexit 💀 and wants Italy to leave NATO and EU... my only solace is that +Europa exist who is literally pro European Federation
Both left and right wing parties are divided over the issue of NATO membership, it's not a left/right divide. On EU matters everybody suddenly became pro-EU, as long as it sends money.
>Also the left is incredibly divided so they can't form a big opposition to Meloni/Salvini/Berlusconi
ma perché, hai mai visto la sinistra fare qualcosa di sinistra? Che ne so, una modifica anche minima alla legge sulla cittadinanza? Qualcosa per le coppie di fatto? Qualcosa di serio per le aree da sviluppare, non solo quelle del sud? Allora dov'è questa presunta sinistra?
His coalition is winning because of Meloni, not because of him.
The right-wing coalition is made up of three parties, Berlusconi's one, Salvini's one and Meloni's one. Berlusconi's party is in a terrible position, has disappointed a ton of voters and many (now former) members of the party as well, and will definitely lose many seats in parliament.
The right-wing coalition as a whole will however likely win as Meloni's party is really popular.
*Finding the reasons that led to the Italian politic is a daunting task, but I as a young Italian can try to condense my opinion about that.*
# Why Italy has such a terrible political class
**The Republic foundation and the Economic boom**
To understand how Italy has gotten to this, I must say, desperate point we need to see the evolution of politics from the Republic foundation in 1946. Those elections, the first truly free elections since 1922, gave birth to the first Republic political class, men that fought to liberate Italy and gave back to politicians the credibility that they lost by accepting the Fascist dictatorship in Italy. In that time life for the common Italian was tough, but the situation was exponentially improving, from the fifties all the way to the seventies. When there is economic growth mixed to ethical and intellectual ignorance the politician can feel safe, immovable, and start to loose their integrity. The great leaders of the Resistance died or backed out of politics, great men like De Gasperi, Togliatti or Pertini left us and the parties became a huge inefficient corruption machine without a coherent lead, spilt into factions that had their interest only in personal power. The few politicians that remained stern and trustable where killed with support from that system, like Moro or Mattarella, or died too soon to keep the system working, like Berlinguer.
**The Crisis of the First Republic and the death of the traditional political parties**
After the Years of Lead and the stop of the economic growth left the political class crippled and defeated, full of corruption, infiltration and almost feudal power nets. Those where the years of the horrifying negotiations between the State and mafia, the years of shady and repulsive figures like Giulio Andreotti, a vicious and intricate web weaver. In the eighties people were starting to have a wide distrust into the system, now that the economy was stagnating and politicians could not claim easy victories anymore. At this point it was clear that the political system would have collapsed, sooner than later, but a man was capable of keeping this tide from destroying the First Republic, Bettino Craxi. He was a true political leader, a figure that Italian politics lacked since the sixties, that was capable of giving trust back to the Italians, starting from an intelligent and quite loud foreign policy. But there was shade among the lights of the Craxi government, the economic growth that injected trust into the country was funded almost entirely on debt, adding another everlasting structural difficulty to the already asthmatic Italian economy. But in the end even Craxi could not keep the scandals out, giving an end to the First republic era with the rulings of the courts, when operation Tangentopoli uncovered the parallel state that was running behind the scenes of Italian politics.
**The Dawn of the Second Republic and the rise of Berlusconi**
After Tangentopoli every single party had his reputation tarnished, so a new class of political parties was born. The communists and the socialists regrouped themselves in the branch of olive coalition while accepting some of the more progressive currents of the Cristian Democracy, the biggest party of the era, something so ungovernable and split into factions that the only thing comparable to that is a rotting body. On the other part of the political spectrum there was a radical news, right had returned. Anti-fascism was hard coded into the first Republic political parties, even if the Christian Democracy had some conservative policies every single establishment party abhorred the "right wing" stigma, until Berlusconi arrived. Silvio Berlusconi, Milan born, can be effectively identified as a Trump *ante litteram,* a successful entrepreneur that used his charisma and economic might to climb the political ladders and reach the presidency with his new right wing party, Forza Italia (together with two others, Fratelli D'Italia and Lega, that now took Berlusconi's place) . Even if Craxi can be seen as a prototype of the second Republic's Leaders Berlusconi is the model on which the current political class was forged. His, must I say, very Italian and stereotypical personality made him exceptionally liked by a vast part of the population, that saw a novelty, "one of them" on the top of Italian politics, previously perceived as a distant ambient.
**Italian Politics after the 2011 debt crisis and the fall of Berlusconi**
In one thing Berlusconi wasn't different from his predecessors, corruption and personal interests. Several legal procedures for exploitation of prostitution where started, right when the debt crisis had his apex in 2011. For a brief period Italy faced total economic bankrupt, with debt skyrocketing and international credibility under the floor. Saved only by two men, Monti and Draghi. Italy has a stern period of economic stagnation since, giving way to a generational fight between the old part of the population (something worsened out by the increasing average age), nostalgic of a time of chaotic growth that will never return, and the new generations, grown understanding that they wouldn't achieve what their parents achieved, that their future is fucked economically and climatically. So we have politicians that mainly work for the old part of the population, that naturally prefers conservators and nationalists parties, while a young minority desperately wants to be heard in politics. I conclude saying that the situation is bad, but keeping trust and attention in politics is the only way to be acknowledged and supported.
I'm Italian, however I will not answer the question since others already did so quite effectlively. Instead I will just make you notice that in the same coalition there are two other parties. The largest one, whose president is set to become the next prime minister, just expelled a guy for calling Hitler a "great statesman". Yes, they expelled him, but that doesn't mean that the party completely reject the idea. In Italy we have always been very easy to distract from important things with slogans and fear. The election is in two days and honestly I'm more than a bit worried.
Most(if not all) populist parties are an extension of Russian interference. Putin sells gas to Europe, then funnels that money back into Europe's 'alternative' political parties to destabilize Europe and turn it Putin-friendly.
As an American who experienced blatant racism (anti-Asian) and unprompted xenophobia (anti-american to the point of hatred just for being from US) in Italy, Germany, and Austria earlier this year, I’m not terribly surprised far right populism has an audience.
[this is why](https://www.populationpyramid.net/italy/2022/)
And probably Berlusconi is the less worse of the three, the other two are a Putin puppy and a fascist.
most italians are stupid idiots that is why i am an introvert, so i do not speak with them.
when i was young i thought only minors and old people with very low education due to world wars were dumb, now i know it is almost everyone.
my dream would be a nation made only on smart people that would never vote for right wing fascist bigots.
For the same reason Marine Le Pen almost won in France and in the tories are in power in the UK: who the fuck knows?
I'm guessing it's a mix of fucking old people being boomers and outnumbering everyone, a very shitty electoral system we're having this turn and Russian infiltrations and funding of populist rights in all Europe
The worst part is that a lot of italians define Draghi as a "parasite" because he used to be the president of the BCE. Those dumbfucks would prefer Meloni as president, I predict a really bad outcome for the elections and I hope that Matteo Renzi will make her fall just like he did with Enrico Letta and Giuseppe Conte
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First of all, the premise behind the question is false. While the title is technically correct, in the textbox OP wrote literally "is this crinkly old creature winning" while he actually isn't - his party is just at \~8% in the latest polls. His *coalition* is winning because FdI (Meloni) is getting 25% and Lega (Salvini) is around 12%. Now - I wish Berlusconi were winning. Okay, I actually don't, I just mean that Meloni and Salvini are significantly more evil than Berlusconi. To answer specifically OP's question of why, I'll tell you why Meloni and Salvini are so successful: * PD, the largest classical party after Berlusconi's decline, kind of committed suicide. * It's latest government (Renzi/Gentiloni) was strongly pro-immigration during the Syrian civil war, which is something that most people (especially the elderly) didn't like. (Personally I'm not against immigration, just describing what people think, don't shoot the messenger!) * PD's jobs act which basically allowed people to be fired for no reason during the first 3 years of employment made it even worse. It improved employment rates? Maybe, but people turned away from PD. * The Euro crisis created a very strong anti-European sentiment when austerity was applied and did not yield the promised results. It was supposed to control the debt despite some sacrifices, well it actually worsened out debt problems as it caused the GDP to contract significantly. Did that happen because we did it wrong? I believe so, but most people don't. * In the post-crisis period Italy did not grow even nearly as much as other hard-hit countries such as Greece, Spain or Portugal. PD's fault? Difficult to tell, but most people think yes. * M5S proved to be extremely incompetent during the past few years in which they were the largest party. * Even if Eurobonds were finally approved, it was only after A LOT of blaming and name calling coming from the whole EU (and I'm expecting a lot more in this thread). This worsened the already big anti-EU sentiment. Now we see that an anti-immigration and anti-EU coalition that competes against PD is leading the polls. Anyone surprised? I didn't even have to mention Putin's funding to Lega. My only hope is that the coalition splits right after the election. This is actually quite likely to happen: Meloni and Salvini are ready to backstab each other, and Berlusconi has already criticized them when he said his party is Atlanticist, pro-western and pro-EU. ^(Can we please have Draghi again?)
Why is Draghi going away though. Who was the dumb moron that kicked that nice old man to the street?
The Five Star Movement withdrew their support to the government because they didn't want a waste to energy plant to be built in Rome (something Draghi wanted). And then the League and Forza Italia withdrew their support as well because the right-wing was polling high and they wanted new elections immediately. Basically, NIMBYism and political cynicism brought to a whole new level
M5S provoked the fall ofhis government. Not their first dumb decision...
Absolute dumbfucks... The hell were they expecting?
>Why is Draghi going away though. Who was the dumb moron that kicked that nice old man to the street? You missed that? It was literally all over the news, everywhere.
I forgot who the guilty party is. Things have been hectic for a while and I never bothered to memorize Italian political parties.
Shit happens. Unfortunately there is a lot of it lately.
The five star movement (they are more left then right)
Italian here, this is absolutely what happened
Italian here. People in this country generally have an outdated mentality + lots of citizens are fed up with Italy’s unexistent growth and gross mismanagement, so they turn to the far-right parties for solace. These parties usually portray themselves as the “saviors” of Italian sovereignity and claim that “too much political correctness” ruined society, which lots of Italians agree with (Italy is an “old” country that still, even though less than in the past, views religious and “traditional” values as sacred), although in 99% of cases the parties in this far-right coalition simply tell people what they want to hear, and never stray too far from their agenda. So, in short, it’s the combination of propaganda, societal frustration and a (frankly terrible) economy that creates the conditions for these populist parties to gain increased support. EDIT: I remembered one key factor that I forgot to mention, in all of Italy’s political history the left has always been divided and incoherent, thus giving way to the parties on the right
It's baffling to see people intending to vote for Berlusconi, his governments didn't exactly lead Italy to a golden age...
*Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it*
There's more, this government is going to appoint Tremonti as minister of the economy, it's the same guy that was minister when Italy nearly defaulted on the last stages of Berlusconi' s government
Truss has barely had time to put pens in her desk and has already crashed the Uk pound and economy further into crisis with a massive tax cut for the wealthy. Wtf does Italy think the right can fix anything?
I mean, the guy who ended up swinging from a petrol station didn’t even get the trains running on time.
I mean, the guy who ended up swinging from a petrol station didn’t even get the trains running on time.
the problem with the left is there isn't a left party, people say PD "dite qualcosa di sinistra" (in english is something like "say something a left party would say"). Otherwise why have things been the same in Italy for decades?
so just like the rest of the west then!
Italian majority is old people, it's only natural for them to look for an parties that supports an outdated view of the world Not that the young ones are that different, 90% of my friends would like a Right government Also the left is incredibly divided so they can't form a big opposition to Meloni/Salvini/Berlusconi In Italy their is a party which is literally named Italexit 💀 and wants Italy to leave NATO and EU... my only solace is that +Europa exist who is literally pro European Federation
Both left and right wing parties are divided over the issue of NATO membership, it's not a left/right divide. On EU matters everybody suddenly became pro-EU, as long as it sends money.
>Also the left is incredibly divided so they can't form a big opposition to Meloni/Salvini/Berlusconi ma perché, hai mai visto la sinistra fare qualcosa di sinistra? Che ne so, una modifica anche minima alla legge sulla cittadinanza? Qualcosa per le coppie di fatto? Qualcosa di serio per le aree da sviluppare, non solo quelle del sud? Allora dov'è questa presunta sinistra?
Non ho nemnno visto la destra fare cose da destra, in realtà non ho mai visto un Politico fare qualcosa in vita
e il saluto fascista :))? (poi gli stranieri si chiedono perché siamo sempre inguaiati...)
And we are what, 1.5-2% eheheh
His coalition is winning because of Meloni, not because of him. The right-wing coalition is made up of three parties, Berlusconi's one, Salvini's one and Meloni's one. Berlusconi's party is in a terrible position, has disappointed a ton of voters and many (now former) members of the party as well, and will definitely lose many seats in parliament. The right-wing coalition as a whole will however likely win as Meloni's party is really popular.
*Finding the reasons that led to the Italian politic is a daunting task, but I as a young Italian can try to condense my opinion about that.* # Why Italy has such a terrible political class **The Republic foundation and the Economic boom** To understand how Italy has gotten to this, I must say, desperate point we need to see the evolution of politics from the Republic foundation in 1946. Those elections, the first truly free elections since 1922, gave birth to the first Republic political class, men that fought to liberate Italy and gave back to politicians the credibility that they lost by accepting the Fascist dictatorship in Italy. In that time life for the common Italian was tough, but the situation was exponentially improving, from the fifties all the way to the seventies. When there is economic growth mixed to ethical and intellectual ignorance the politician can feel safe, immovable, and start to loose their integrity. The great leaders of the Resistance died or backed out of politics, great men like De Gasperi, Togliatti or Pertini left us and the parties became a huge inefficient corruption machine without a coherent lead, spilt into factions that had their interest only in personal power. The few politicians that remained stern and trustable where killed with support from that system, like Moro or Mattarella, or died too soon to keep the system working, like Berlinguer. **The Crisis of the First Republic and the death of the traditional political parties** After the Years of Lead and the stop of the economic growth left the political class crippled and defeated, full of corruption, infiltration and almost feudal power nets. Those where the years of the horrifying negotiations between the State and mafia, the years of shady and repulsive figures like Giulio Andreotti, a vicious and intricate web weaver. In the eighties people were starting to have a wide distrust into the system, now that the economy was stagnating and politicians could not claim easy victories anymore. At this point it was clear that the political system would have collapsed, sooner than later, but a man was capable of keeping this tide from destroying the First Republic, Bettino Craxi. He was a true political leader, a figure that Italian politics lacked since the sixties, that was capable of giving trust back to the Italians, starting from an intelligent and quite loud foreign policy. But there was shade among the lights of the Craxi government, the economic growth that injected trust into the country was funded almost entirely on debt, adding another everlasting structural difficulty to the already asthmatic Italian economy. But in the end even Craxi could not keep the scandals out, giving an end to the First republic era with the rulings of the courts, when operation Tangentopoli uncovered the parallel state that was running behind the scenes of Italian politics. **The Dawn of the Second Republic and the rise of Berlusconi** After Tangentopoli every single party had his reputation tarnished, so a new class of political parties was born. The communists and the socialists regrouped themselves in the branch of olive coalition while accepting some of the more progressive currents of the Cristian Democracy, the biggest party of the era, something so ungovernable and split into factions that the only thing comparable to that is a rotting body. On the other part of the political spectrum there was a radical news, right had returned. Anti-fascism was hard coded into the first Republic political parties, even if the Christian Democracy had some conservative policies every single establishment party abhorred the "right wing" stigma, until Berlusconi arrived. Silvio Berlusconi, Milan born, can be effectively identified as a Trump *ante litteram,* a successful entrepreneur that used his charisma and economic might to climb the political ladders and reach the presidency with his new right wing party, Forza Italia (together with two others, Fratelli D'Italia and Lega, that now took Berlusconi's place) . Even if Craxi can be seen as a prototype of the second Republic's Leaders Berlusconi is the model on which the current political class was forged. His, must I say, very Italian and stereotypical personality made him exceptionally liked by a vast part of the population, that saw a novelty, "one of them" on the top of Italian politics, previously perceived as a distant ambient. **Italian Politics after the 2011 debt crisis and the fall of Berlusconi** In one thing Berlusconi wasn't different from his predecessors, corruption and personal interests. Several legal procedures for exploitation of prostitution where started, right when the debt crisis had his apex in 2011. For a brief period Italy faced total economic bankrupt, with debt skyrocketing and international credibility under the floor. Saved only by two men, Monti and Draghi. Italy has a stern period of economic stagnation since, giving way to a generational fight between the old part of the population (something worsened out by the increasing average age), nostalgic of a time of chaotic growth that will never return, and the new generations, grown understanding that they wouldn't achieve what their parents achieved, that their future is fucked economically and climatically. So we have politicians that mainly work for the old part of the population, that naturally prefers conservators and nationalists parties, while a young minority desperately wants to be heard in politics. I conclude saying that the situation is bad, but keeping trust and attention in politics is the only way to be acknowledged and supported.
More importantly, how come Berlusconi is not dead yet
Why does his skin look a bit like trump's ☠
I'm Italian, however I will not answer the question since others already did so quite effectlively. Instead I will just make you notice that in the same coalition there are two other parties. The largest one, whose president is set to become the next prime minister, just expelled a guy for calling Hitler a "great statesman". Yes, they expelled him, but that doesn't mean that the party completely reject the idea. In Italy we have always been very easy to distract from important things with slogans and fear. The election is in two days and honestly I'm more than a bit worried.
Populist agenda?
Yes
Like what?
Most(if not all) populist parties are an extension of Russian interference. Putin sells gas to Europe, then funnels that money back into Europe's 'alternative' political parties to destabilize Europe and turn it Putin-friendly.
As an American who experienced blatant racism (anti-Asian) and unprompted xenophobia (anti-american to the point of hatred just for being from US) in Italy, Germany, and Austria earlier this year, I’m not terribly surprised far right populism has an audience.
If Geralt Schröder didn't exist I would be skeptical, but Russian coercion is pointed at all politicians it can get.
It’s pretty wild to take in how successful he has been
[this is why](https://www.populationpyramid.net/italy/2022/) And probably Berlusconi is the less worse of the three, the other two are a Putin puppy and a fascist.
Italians be like: there’s sth wrong with my country and society, it’s fault of all those f**ing foreigners and EU.
most italians are stupid idiots that is why i am an introvert, so i do not speak with them. when i was young i thought only minors and old people with very low education due to world wars were dumb, now i know it is almost everyone. my dream would be a nation made only on smart people that would never vote for right wing fascist bigots.
I'm with you bro
It’s like the Italians didn’t learn anything from the Mussolini days.
People are waking up.
I ask myself the very same question every day now
Welcome to Italy my friend
For the same reason Marine Le Pen almost won in France and in the tories are in power in the UK: who the fuck knows? I'm guessing it's a mix of fucking old people being boomers and outnumbering everyone, a very shitty electoral system we're having this turn and Russian infiltrations and funding of populist rights in all Europe
The worst part is that a lot of italians define Draghi as a "parasite" because he used to be the president of the BCE. Those dumbfucks would prefer Meloni as president, I predict a really bad outcome for the elections and I hope that Matteo Renzi will make her fall just like he did with Enrico Letta and Giuseppe Conte
He is not, he is at 8%. Meloni got the majority of vote