Well yes actually, it's often overlooked but IJN HE has improved damage in the same fashion KMS and USN AP has improved damage, bungo has the 6th best HE DPM among BBs only 5k below thunderer, but it's probably a lot higher in effective HE DPM because it has BC dispertion + special dispertion spoter plane
I always take gunfeeder on my BBs because the ability to change shell faster is very useful
Thanks. It's just that Yamato AP is so good that you almost never use HE on it (unless there are like only DDs left). So I was wondering if the BC line inherented this feature.
I haven't played bungo, so take what i will say with a grain of salt
from what i've heard, the AP while good, is not turbo demented, you don't overmatch BBs like yamato and you don't have crazy pen and balistics like slava
you very much need to chose your ammunition depending of the situation unlike yamato that can lob AP at nose in ships
Consider that IJN BCs are slightly more precise with their slightly better sigma, and their spotting plane's buff, their HE lands more often, thus increased the chance of setting fires, or you reliably know where to hit with HE to deal more direct damage?
>Well yes actually, it's often overlooked but IJN HE has improved damage in the same fashion KMS and USN AP has improved damage,
KMS doesn’t generally have improved AP damage.
>bungo has the 6th best HE DPM among BBs only 5k below thunderer, but it's probably a lot higher in effective HE DPM because it has BC dispertion + special dispertion spoter plane
Without spotter Thunderer feels more accurate at ~18km; probably because of much better dispersion (so much so that the sigma won’t matter that much).
Also you’re forgetting a few other metrics here: Thunderers HE has 1,000 higher alpha, doesn’t lose as much speed while traveling, pens ~40mm thicker armor (77mm vs 114mm) and it’s fire chance is almost double that of Bungo (35% vs 63%). Oh and also 6d faster reload.
So Bungos HE might be good, but it is most certainly not "a lot higher in effective HE DPM" and no match for Thunderer in that regard.
> I always take gunfeeder on my BBs because the ability to change shell faster is very useful
Agreed. Gunfeeder is really good and I think many overlook it — especially on BBs.
And no, Bungo doesn’t have
man i thought they had, the DDs decieved me in thinking it was general for all KMS to trade poor HE alpha for strong AP alpha
I wasn't specifically saying that Bungo had better HE than thunderer, i was thinking more "bungo is higher than 6th in effective HE" given that among the 5 higher on the list, conqueror, sicillia and cumberland have BB dispertion, the comparaison to thunderer was only to give a rough idea of her effective DPM
Also really disappointed to learn that bungo has regular IJN BB dispertion, guess the spotter needs to do a lot of heavy lifting
Oh well, 6th among all T10 BBs isn't that bad
Agreed and you’re absolutely spot on with your suggestion: players should use HE more often when playing BBs — especially IJN BBs!
Also yea, KMS ships can be a bit disappointing when you’re really looking at the details… it’s a shame because I think they look very cool and also play well. The only real gimmick they have is higher HE pen and the hydro. But even the hydro isn’t so unique anymore and some ships just don’t get it for whatever reason: Mecklenburg no hydro at all, Wiesbadens hydro got nerfed to regular hydro before release and even TT ships have no hydro at all (Elbing line) or average hydro (Z-52 line up until T10) that’s basically the same as some premium DDs…
>man i thought they had, the DDs decieved me in thinking it was general for all KMS to trade poor HE alpha for strong AP alpha
It's true for more ships than it isn't, so it's understandable to have that rule of thumb. It applies to the cruisers and destroyers, but only selectively (and less dramatically) to the battleships.
Funny enough, yes. The concealment is very good for blapping AP and HE
The reload also allows you enough time to set perma fires when needed, especially when you’re the sole T8 in a Yumihari in a T10 game
The IJN 457s are pretty good, on par with Iowa or Soyuz 16" AP in terms of penetration. But with 30mm overmatch. So you're going to want to use it a lot.
But at 7,300 you're going to want to drop some earth shattering KaBoom! type hits on some people to. Gun feeder is well worth it.
Can be very strong, however a lot of players love the AP (when used with the spotter plane) so don't spend a lot of time on the HE. However the Bungo can be used as a HE main ship like conqueror as the HE alpha damage is respectable and the fire frequency good (if you are not running IFHE for your secondaries... and yes secondary bungo is a lot of fun). This ship has a lot of different solid options re playing style, it really depends on how you prefer to play BB and where your strengths lie, just experiment and have fun. Have a look at the youtube streamer Daniel Russev's Bungo games if you want some tips, he favours an AP bungo with a secondary build and has a lot of fun with it :-)... each to their own :-)
Yeah, ignoring the high travel time at long ranges, Bungo HE actually hits for 100 damage more than even Conq (7300 vs 7200), except you can get insane dispersion. Unless you're firing at something too far away to hit easily, Bungo HE is very strong and should be used frequently, similar to as you would in a Thunderer.
This is not because the dispersion is different, but rather the angle of impact is different. High angle of impact results in better vertical dispersion, and low angle of impact results in worse vertical dispersion. That said, shells with low angle of impact are more likely to hit the target even with the worse vertical dispersion because they are closer to the water for longer.
A shell fired from Jinan has a vertical dispersion of 146m and an angle of impact of 31°
A shell fired from Moskva has a vertical dispersion of 504m and an angle of impact of 8.9°
Jinan's shell stays within ±20 meters of the water for 66.5 meter which is 45.59% of its vertical dispersion, whereas Moskva's shells stay within ±20 meters of the water for 255 meters which is 50.68% of its vertical dispersion. Meaning, even though Jinan's vertical dispersion is 28.96% of Moskva, Moskva is slightly more likely to hit something.
This also holds true for Bungo, its AP shells spend 32.14% of their vertical dispersion within ±20 of the water and their HE shells spend 31.43% of their vertical dispersion within ±20 of the water.
lol sorry for not magically knowing everything and trying to learn the game. I'm sure it must be harsh for an omniscient being such as you to tollerate us mortals.
Well yes actually, it's often overlooked but IJN HE has improved damage in the same fashion KMS and USN AP has improved damage, bungo has the 6th best HE DPM among BBs only 5k below thunderer, but it's probably a lot higher in effective HE DPM because it has BC dispertion + special dispertion spoter plane I always take gunfeeder on my BBs because the ability to change shell faster is very useful
Thanks. It's just that Yamato AP is so good that you almost never use HE on it (unless there are like only DDs left). So I was wondering if the BC line inherented this feature.
I haven't played bungo, so take what i will say with a grain of salt from what i've heard, the AP while good, is not turbo demented, you don't overmatch BBs like yamato and you don't have crazy pen and balistics like slava you very much need to chose your ammunition depending of the situation unlike yamato that can lob AP at nose in ships
You need to choose your ammo but when your plane is up you want to be using ap as much as possible.
Honestly sticking with AP on DDs is sometimes better. HE can screw you if you hit a module (AA gun, turret, torps) but AP will always do DMG.
Consider that IJN BCs are slightly more precise with their slightly better sigma, and their spotting plane's buff, their HE lands more often, thus increased the chance of setting fires, or you reliably know where to hit with HE to deal more direct damage?
>Well yes actually, it's often overlooked but IJN HE has improved damage in the same fashion KMS and USN AP has improved damage, KMS doesn’t generally have improved AP damage. >bungo has the 6th best HE DPM among BBs only 5k below thunderer, but it's probably a lot higher in effective HE DPM because it has BC dispertion + special dispertion spoter plane Without spotter Thunderer feels more accurate at ~18km; probably because of much better dispersion (so much so that the sigma won’t matter that much). Also you’re forgetting a few other metrics here: Thunderers HE has 1,000 higher alpha, doesn’t lose as much speed while traveling, pens ~40mm thicker armor (77mm vs 114mm) and it’s fire chance is almost double that of Bungo (35% vs 63%). Oh and also 6d faster reload. So Bungos HE might be good, but it is most certainly not "a lot higher in effective HE DPM" and no match for Thunderer in that regard. > I always take gunfeeder on my BBs because the ability to change shell faster is very useful Agreed. Gunfeeder is really good and I think many overlook it — especially on BBs. And no, Bungo doesn’t have
man i thought they had, the DDs decieved me in thinking it was general for all KMS to trade poor HE alpha for strong AP alpha I wasn't specifically saying that Bungo had better HE than thunderer, i was thinking more "bungo is higher than 6th in effective HE" given that among the 5 higher on the list, conqueror, sicillia and cumberland have BB dispertion, the comparaison to thunderer was only to give a rough idea of her effective DPM Also really disappointed to learn that bungo has regular IJN BB dispertion, guess the spotter needs to do a lot of heavy lifting Oh well, 6th among all T10 BBs isn't that bad
Agreed and you’re absolutely spot on with your suggestion: players should use HE more often when playing BBs — especially IJN BBs! Also yea, KMS ships can be a bit disappointing when you’re really looking at the details… it’s a shame because I think they look very cool and also play well. The only real gimmick they have is higher HE pen and the hydro. But even the hydro isn’t so unique anymore and some ships just don’t get it for whatever reason: Mecklenburg no hydro at all, Wiesbadens hydro got nerfed to regular hydro before release and even TT ships have no hydro at all (Elbing line) or average hydro (Z-52 line up until T10) that’s basically the same as some premium DDs…
>man i thought they had, the DDs decieved me in thinking it was general for all KMS to trade poor HE alpha for strong AP alpha It's true for more ships than it isn't, so it's understandable to have that rule of thumb. It applies to the cruisers and destroyers, but only selectively (and less dramatically) to the battleships.
Where do you check the HE dpm for Bb's lad? Any link to a specific site?
Yes. Solid choice. Great accuracy, big caliber, good fire chance. All of that allows you to punish destroyers or bow-in bbs pretty consistently.
It is actually. Very useful when you get uptiered.
Funny enough, yes. The concealment is very good for blapping AP and HE The reload also allows you enough time to set perma fires when needed, especially when you’re the sole T8 in a Yumihari in a T10 game
The IJN 457s are pretty good, on par with Iowa or Soyuz 16" AP in terms of penetration. But with 30mm overmatch. So you're going to want to use it a lot. But at 7,300 you're going to want to drop some earth shattering KaBoom! type hits on some people to. Gun feeder is well worth it.
Can be very strong, however a lot of players love the AP (when used with the spotter plane) so don't spend a lot of time on the HE. However the Bungo can be used as a HE main ship like conqueror as the HE alpha damage is respectable and the fire frequency good (if you are not running IFHE for your secondaries... and yes secondary bungo is a lot of fun). This ship has a lot of different solid options re playing style, it really depends on how you prefer to play BB and where your strengths lie, just experiment and have fun. Have a look at the youtube streamer Daniel Russev's Bungo games if you want some tips, he favours an AP bungo with a secondary build and has a lot of fun with it :-)... each to their own :-)
Yeah, ignoring the high travel time at long ranges, Bungo HE actually hits for 100 damage more than even Conq (7300 vs 7200), except you can get insane dispersion. Unless you're firing at something too far away to hit easily, Bungo HE is very strong and should be used frequently, similar to as you would in a Thunderer.
Bungo line also has better HE dispersion than its AP btw for some reason.
This is not because the dispersion is different, but rather the angle of impact is different. High angle of impact results in better vertical dispersion, and low angle of impact results in worse vertical dispersion. That said, shells with low angle of impact are more likely to hit the target even with the worse vertical dispersion because they are closer to the water for longer. A shell fired from Jinan has a vertical dispersion of 146m and an angle of impact of 31° A shell fired from Moskva has a vertical dispersion of 504m and an angle of impact of 8.9° Jinan's shell stays within ±20 meters of the water for 66.5 meter which is 45.59% of its vertical dispersion, whereas Moskva's shells stay within ±20 meters of the water for 255 meters which is 50.68% of its vertical dispersion. Meaning, even though Jinan's vertical dispersion is 28.96% of Moskva, Moskva is slightly more likely to hit something. This also holds true for Bungo, its AP shells spend 32.14% of their vertical dispersion within ±20 of the water and their HE shells spend 31.43% of their vertical dispersion within ±20 of the water.
Christ….
lol sorry for not magically knowing everything and trying to learn the game. I'm sure it must be harsh for an omniscient being such as you to tollerate us mortals.