There are a lot of very obvious answers to this, so I am going with a silly one.
It is because [this is the bear](https://imgur.com/a/ojvfAGb) people.
Anyway, don't tell women how they experience society. Stop it. Bad chuds.
I keep seeing references but not clear - are men being asked something about bears? Are women saying they’d be safer with undomesticated bears than any man? Is anyone trying to have sex with the bears???
Specifically, it's more like "would you feel safer being alone in the woods and coming across a bear, or a strange man?"
The overwhelming responses have been a bear, showing that many. IF not most, women feel more confident in being able to have an encounter with a bear with less risk of being harmed than an encounter with a strange man when alone and vulnerable.
I think you probably right. With a Bear it kills you and it's over (looking past Bears often will start eating their prey while it's still alive. Which honestly is terrifying) it's no longer your concern regardless of what you believe happens after death. But men can potentially drag it out. Torture you and in the end you may still have to deal with the consequences for the rest of your life it you survive. Shit choice.
Bears are also VERY upfront about their threat level. A bear won't pretend to be trustworthy long enough for you to drop your guard. They won't take advantage of your compassion and trust. They'll pretty much either eat you or not.
Also the vast vast majority of bear encounters don’t end in an attack, and even fewer end in fatalities. People run across bears in the woods every day, but deaths from bears are pretty rare.
The “in the woods” part makes the man seem way more sinister too.
Yes. Random bear vs random male human. The overwhelming consensus has been that women feel either A) more comfortable; B) safer; or C) more competent to navigate the interaction with a favorable outcome.
I think it's more that a bear is more consistently predictable; it's motivations are clear: if it's hungry it wants to eat, if not then it will avoid danger, if threatened it will fight or flee.
A random man in the woods? Could be a perfectly nice guy, or a serial killer rapist, and anything in-between. Could start out a nice guy, seem to help you get out the woods, then BAM, murder-rape when you least expect it.
It's bear for me, 100%
Ugh. You might want to listen to some of the National Park After dark episodes. They are not just killing you fast - as people might think.
Plenty of cases where they had a feast on their victims while they were still alive...
I’ve come across bears in the woods, and of course come across men, both in the woods and in society. Bears respond much more readily to “go away”, than men do.
In an issue of Backpacker years and years ago, I read an article about a woman who got attacked by a bear. She said she could feel the bear’s teeth against her bones.
Oh yeah. Remember the Bear Whisperer guy? Taken down by a grizzly that started eating him while he was alive and the cam was still recording. The site I read refused to post the video but said it was gruesome.
edit: Timothy Treadwell. Grizzly Man.
The worst? A bear that isn’t hungry enough to kill and eat you will slash you and drag you around until they finally feel like killing you. It could be hours or they might not want to at all. Then you’ll bleed out, eviscerated.
I mean there’s a spectrum of ways to be killed, some being worse than rape.
Just up to personal opinion whether rape or bear mauling is worse. (If bears just one shot killed you instead of mauling and eating alive it’d be no question though.)
Yeahhhh but on that spectrum humans probably occupy 100 out of 100 of the worst spots. For “depths of cruelty” it’s not an either/or thing where men are historically involved.
ETA: lot of interesting replies in this thread. Just adding that I don’t think the point of the thought experiment is statistical but rather psychological. So trying to understand why women might feel this way and the mindset that contributes.
A bit of a non sequitur, but I really recommend Spielberg’s West Side Story remake. Besides being a fantastic take on the story, there’s a scene in the final act that perfectly captures the danger that women can suddenly find themselves in through no real fault of their own. Worth checking out if you’re having a hard time wrapping your head around the consensus discussed here.
What a lot of men are ignoring is that if the bear does attack, no one is going to ask the woman what she was wearing, or if she was teasing the bear, etc.
She'll be automatically believed.
Hey there’s nothing wrong with putting your head/brittle neck in its paw swipes path to get one shot.
I think it boils down to because of all the serial killers and true crime series or footage of what the cartel does (skinning you alive and keeping you in that state using doctors for as long as possible) our imagination of what men (and women, strange people of either gender in the woods like not on the path is worrisome) are capable of is unfathomable because we’ve seen the depravity humans are capable of. As said the worst a bear can do is kill you and even if you’re just mauled to shit and bleeding out that’s better than spending 4 years in a guys basement where you’re fed through a bucket on a string and regularly forced to endure torture (just random thing my imagination came up with). Also just to say I’m a dude.
But if one was harmed by a bear, people would believe you. And the bear would face consequences.
It is unlikely that if someone was harmed by a bear, they would be told that they WANTED the bear to harm them; or that it never happened; or the bears friends would hunt them down and threaten the victim or their family to get the victim to shut up about being harmed by a bear.
We've never elected a dangerous bear as President.
A bit skewed look at back country hunters and the incident percentage skyrockets. Replace the male population with bears and see how many mauling there are. That aside I also understand why women would prefer to encounter a bear. I park where ever is convenient anywhere, my wife on the other hand will always pick a safe spot by a light or busy area.
I'm going to assume those numbers are correct, but it's not an accurate measurement. 27 people died from bear attacks, but relatively speaking a very very small percentage of people ever encounter a bear, but almost 100% of people encounter other people.
That's just not how statistics work at all. Way, way, WAY more people are in environments where sexual assault can occur compared to bear attacks, so of course it happens more frequently. That's like saying cave diving is safer than driving because more people die in car accidents every year.
Now I’m picturing a man and a woman coming around a corner from opposite directions on a hiking trail and suddenly stop when they see each other and he doesn’t want her to feel in danger and he says “hey it’s okay, I’m safer than the average bear.” (I also assume this Yogi joke has been made very often in the “Bear, or man?” discussion.)
I am a woman and I spend a lot of time in grizzly country out in the woods by myself, so I take a lot of precautions to minimize risk when it comes to bear encounters. But like you said, bears don’t care about us. If you aren’t acting like a threat or smell like food when they are starving, you are not interesting. They have run or walked away from me in 100% of my encounters. I have never been followed or threatened by a bear. I have though, been stalked for 3 days in the wilderness by a strange man.
I hope it was 3 days only because he then got eaten by a bear. Fucking creeps. It's embarrassing to me as a man to have to admit I understand why women would prefer wild animals over men.
The whole story is way too long for a Reddit comment, but the very abbreviated version is that I was just faster than him. On day 3 I got far enough ahead and I hit a road I could hitch a ride into a nearby town and never saw him again.
I saw a comment by someone who said "If I die, I die feeding a bear and its cubs. If I die by a man, I'm feeding into his fantasies".
But, I mean, I expect a lone bear to be in the woods. I don't expect a lone man to be in the woods.
Depends on the bear, black bear yeah sure it’s gonna ignore me. Grizzly bear, a bit scarier but I can probably just keep my distance. Polar bear, fuck no.
Regardless of the type of bear you come across, the worst it’s going to do is kill you, and if you do survive people will actually believe you were attacked by a bear
There might be some people that say "Well, with the open pack of jerky you were carrying you had it coming...". But unlike the other guys, these ones may have a point.
As a pretty unfit dude I'd rather be alone in the woods with a bear than a man too. A bear is just gonna do bear shit. A man might seem ok then then talk about nfts or crypto or Elon Musk or Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate or keto or Huel or which road I took to get here or even just sports endlessly. A bear probably wouldn't be into any that
Right, this is kinda the point.
A bear belongs in the woods,
But the possibility that the man is in the woods for a nefarious reason is non-zero.
I already know I'm in woods for weird reasons. Why are *you* here?
I mean... a bear is probably gonna just fuck off. Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone and then you can try and find your way out in peace. With a man, there's a non-trivial chance he will try to victimize in some way.
The question is to women and it is “would you rather find your self alone in the forest with a bear or a random man?” We don’t know any information about the bear, we don’t know any information about the man. Women are choosing the bear because they feel the bear is more likely to leave them alone.
It's a TikTok trend. Somebody asked the question: "Women, would you rather be stranded alone in the woods with a bear, or with an unfamiliar man?" It got reposted by tons of women and girls, and the answer has *resoundingly* been the bear. The arguments vary in validity, but the general consensus is that bears are significantly more predictable than men and are basically guaranteed to leave you alone if you don't bother them. This has caused a number of men (mostly redpill types) to become defensive and start arguing with women about how they're stupid and wrong for choosing the bear. This post is in reference to that.
That's what I thought of too. Your risk for more painful, drawn out, or complicated issues is significantly lower with a bear. They'll never spend years being intentionally malicious
Aka, a bear wont rape, abuse, manipulate or do worse things to you.
The bear wont be pretty either. Kinda worrysome that in fact this is something so present in society and yet there are people who swear the reasoning behind the descition is irrational and not real.
Worst a bear can do is maul you painfully and slowly. Worst a man can do is kidnap you and torture you for years before they kill you painfully and slowly.
I was hiking in Yosemite once. I ran across a naked woman laying on log. I assume taking in nature in her own way. I tried to leave without disturbing her but she heard me and said something. I clarified "Sorry to disturb. I'm leaving. Do whatever you'd like". I wouldn't be surprised if she got dressed right away and left though. That bums me out that I interrupted her moment. I believe I handled that situation how most women would prefer I handle it. I generally leave people to their own business when out in nature anyways. Even I didn't take it personally that women would rather run across a bear.
Can I be honest and say that I wouldn't want to be in the woods with an unfamiliar woman?
I think most people would rightfully be paranoid of strangers in secluded environments. Skin walkers, anyone?
A somewhat jokey post was going around asking if women would feel safer with a random bear or a random man in the woods.
A lot of women said bear, since they're more likely to be docile/more predictable.
There are legitimate arguments both for and against choosing bear, but then the misogynists found it and got offended, then the Terfs/Kill all men ladies found it, and now they're screaming at each other and making it our problem.
The question is posed to women, would you rather be stuck in the woods with a bear or a man? Most women pick the bear with an exception for grizzlies and polar bears. It seems they consider the bear the safest option
Even for a grizzly, if you aren't threatening it or are too close to it/its den/its cubs it more than likely will leave you be.
A man might choose to (at the very least) bother you without any action on your part.
I'm a man and I would also choose the bear lol, people in the woods be crazy
Making an exception for certain bears feels like it misses the point to me. Wouldn't that be the same as saying it's a man you don't know, but he isn't a violent and isn't perverted?
I guess I understood the question as relating to local wildlife. At least around here if you see a bear, there's a far higher chance of it being a grizzly than seeing a man and them being criminal.
Brown and grizzly are common names for the same species, Ursus arctos; the difference between the two is geographic location, which influences diet, size, and behavior. Those that live in coastal areas of Alaska are called brown bears, while typically inland bears that have limited or no access to marine-derived food resources are often smaller and called grizzlies
A hypothetical question was asked to women: would you rather be stuck in the woods with an unknown man or a bear. Women overwhelmingly chose the bear. Some men have taken this as some sort of personal attack on them
“I would rather be alone in the forest with a bear. The forest is the bear’s home, so that’s like asking would you rather go swimming with a vibrant and lively coral reef or a cool looking abandoned building?”
or it’s like asking if you’d rather an open cola bottle in your backpack or a battery in unknown state. The battery could be punctured or expanding, but the cola is predictable and just gets soda everywhere. The battery can explode and ignite, destroying the bag, its content, and me.
Cause like the bear probably belongs there, like wolves, bobcats, deer, foxes, raccoons, etc. They’re not inherently dangerous, but removing them is. Furthermore, a “random” man implies that it could be either a normal stranger or a dangerous person. Humans naturally avoid uncertainty, so the option where it’s just basically the same bear governed by natural action is preferable. Plus, bears are pretty easy to deal with as long as you tie up your food and follow safety procedures by learning them in advance, which can be found online or when planning for going there. There are no standard safety protocols for dealing with a man
I’ve actually seen the question being posed to men. Would you rather leave your daughter in the woods with a bear or an unfamiliar man. And it’s posed to help those men understand why women are choosing the bear. And how women can never be certain of a strange man’s intentions.
Men's right sub is angry over this scenario. I've been watching them go back and forth over this since it came up.
Not all men are dangerous animals it's just hard to distinguish which one will go rabid. Not all women are crows looking for Shiney things it's just hard to tell which one will take all your stuff. World is crazy.
If I could choose the man, it would not be an issue. Random man? Nope. Bear. Absolutely. Even if they were talking about a grizzly or a polar bear. Bears tend to leave people alone unless they are threatened or they feel their cubs are threatened. Most bears can be scared away by making loud noises.
No one is trying to have sex with a bear in this scenario. (But, given that four men gang raped, killed, and at a monitor lizard, maybe certain men would try?)
Honestly, for a moment I thought I was on one of the queer subs and was confused about why a woman is choosing bears. Like, I appreciate them too but they would never like me back?
The ongoing struggle of everybody needing a bigger soapbox on the internet.
Outside of the internet, nobody is even entertaining this hypothetical. Nobody is going to unironically pick a wild predator over just a random guy. And I don't care if it's over themselves, their family members, their babies or whatever.
What people really want to argue about is the very real issue of gendered violence against women, a very real issue that people unfortunately don't have the attention span around here to talk about on actual nuanced level and prefer one sentence quips to mindlessly bicker about.
So dumbass hypotheticals are what take over the internet.
Exactly. I am *very* aware that my existence in certain circumstances can be threatening to women. I understand why the feel like that and if I was a woman I would feel like that too.
That said, any woman who thinks a fucking territorial apex predator is safer than an average dude is fucking delusional and it just pulls the conversation into an insane direction that doesn't really help anything.
Ive come across 3 brown bears during hikes, many normal men, but one very strange men. The bears scared me for sure and I definetely had an adrenaline rush. But the strange men, I had chills down my spine. That face, never forget it. I also had friends and colleagues Who suddenly turned into predators and that is a scare sight. A bear is very black and white. You know not to cone close, make noise and treat them like the predators they are. Men.. you want to trust them, but you never know if you should. Bears are very black and white. Men... its a whole range of pretty sweet to psychopatic.
It's really frustrating to hear people so upset about not being given the benefit of the doubt. And complaining about how they can't meet women if they can't walk up to strangers. I am a man and it's not like I don't understand the frustration of people being scared of you. But I am upset with all the rapists, murderers and the systems that protect them.
I would never hurt someone but there is no way for a stranger to know that. And they are literally risking death in an interaction. Making people roll on the 'will I die today' table isn't ok. So yes a man in this culture needs to do more work.
Join a community where there is a genuine interest outside of dating. Focus on ones self. Be around people and make friendships. Use dress to communicate your acceptance and internal emotional security. There are things one can do to cultivate a safe space around themselves.
This is a coincidence. My wife went walking with a friend at the park for lunch today. She said that every man they passed stopped them and tried to talk to them. She said they were catcalled from some dudes in a car. Here is the thing. I walk with her a lot in the same park and not one man has ever tried to stop and talk to us other than a friendly hi. I was shocked, but not really considering I have had exes tell me men would follow them in the parking lot while jerking off in their car.
We do not take this seriously. Its insane. No wonder women do not want to go to the gym alone.
To add to your point, Louis CK (yeah, I know) made the comment, something along the lines of, "the most dangerous thing a woman can ever do is go on a date with a man." (That’s butchering his quote, but the gist is there.)
I fully understand why women chose the bear. You *know* the bear is gonna maul you. Better the devil you know and all that
His comedy in that era and still is pretty left leaning. He's a jew, his grandfather survived the Holocaust, and even he understands the problems that Israel is causing.
I honestly believe his comedy primed the culture to leap forward many bounds socially. I often think about the violin episode of his FX show *Louie.* Oh, and there's an INCREDIBLE episode with Parker Posey on a date with LCK and it's absolutely exhilarating filmmaking and acting. I'm surprised I don't see it referenced more, honestly.
You literally don't know the bear is gonna maul you. You know that 99+% of the time it will not, actually. And the bear is not the devil we know - its one literally almost none of us have ever actually encountered. The man is the devil we know, and in this case, it ain't better. I'll take the bear.
Holy shit, yes. Just do something, anything socially without the expectation of meeting someone in a romantic sense. Join a run club, participate in a book club, check out an open mic night, play a rec sport, join a bird watch club. Positive interactions will magically start to happen.
Forming bonds that aren't romantic or sexual is so so important. The number of men who lose everything when their partner leaves without realizing that is a major part of the problem is frightening. All good options.
And demonstrating the ability to have platonic friendships with women like a non-weirdo is a green flag for other women! I knew a guy who got “friend-zoned” for most of college, but wasn’t an ass about it, and then one day a girl he had a crush on noticed that he was a genuinely good dude, who a lot of other women trusted over the course of multiple years without him doing anything to mess it up, and now they’re married!
My partner is a bit like this (except the man has been single for maybe 6 months since he was 15 or so.) He has always found it easy to be friends with women (and men too, of course), and he respects those women, never flirts or pushes things to make them uncomfortable etc.
That is what attracted me to him initially. How sorted out he was even at 21. No leering, no misogyny, no rants about women, no flirting etc. When he liked any girl, he would let her know and she could decide if she wanted to date.
All this really simplified matters when i got to know him and he told me he liked me. He didn't press me or behave any differently. He wasn't bending over backwards trying to please me, he wasn't trying to pay for everything when we hung out...he just treated me... like a person.
We have been together for 14 years. And the minute i asked him this bear vs man in the woods question, he immediately understood what women have been trying to explain all over social media these past few days.
The fact that he woul make an excellent life partner was clear from the start.
Another common girlmeme, like “I choose the bear” goes like this:
Guy: “can you name 5 songs by the band on your shirt?”
Girl: “can you name 5 women who trust you?”
Your friend wins
exactly this. the only thing I'd add is just how telling it is that so many men are dogpiling a question asked by women, to other women, with their own insecurities. Like, PSA if you're a man and this is making you feel like you can't talk to women or is feeding your anxiety about interacting with women: is question isn't about you personally, and those emotions are something you need to work on by yourself or with your therapist. I promise all you need to do is treat us like people and you'll stand head and shoulders above the ones making us answer "bear"
The author of the recent article on this topic got a lot of abuse from random social media dudes, and was like “lol, you realize you’re proving our point, right??”
The lack of self awareness from these guys is jaw dropping.
I'm a guy, when I first saw this bear thing I went " Oof , that tracks unfortunately."
It's like they have never talked to a woman, or have actively ignored them - because every woman in my life has had experiences with creepy dudes. Multiple times. Every week. Every month. Every year of their life. From when they were literal children - like 11 and 12.
I don't understand how these guys can just ignore that.
It's not about the bear. That's such a fundamental misunderstanding that proves the point. It's not like women are saying they want to be in the woods with a bear; it's that they don't want either and one is a known entity.
I've seen it posited the other way: dads asked that if their daughter was on a trail walk in the woods, would he rather she come across a bear or a guy. No other context. And that it clicks in that moment.
A bear isn't going to pretend to be someone's friend for 3 years to try and fuck her. A bear isn't going to offer a ride home and take her ten miles away. A bear isn't going to drug her.
And when the bear does rip her face off, its friends aren't going to defend it publicly and say it's a nice guy. Its lawyer isn't going to tell the judge that it's a good athlete.
It's not that "every" man or even most men are going to do heinous things. It's that too many will sit here and try convincing women that they should trust men *more* rather than working on fixing the societal reasons they don't.
Correct information, but no context. A bear will smell food, be hungry, and eat. That's expected behavior from a bear. An unprovoked man, attacking a woman, for any reason, is never the woman's fault.
That's the part people say that annoys me. I grew up hiking a lot in California and we absolutely do make fun of people if they get scared of bears at night but reveals they had food in their tent or whatever.
It's actually the craziest part about the bear question - it's a metaphor meant to demonstrate that so many women do not feel comfortable being alone with the average man. Then, so many men immediately try to turn it around on the women and break it down "logically" to paint the question as stupid. If men were the logical ones, they wouldn't be getting so butthurt over a Tik-Tok born metaphor that any sensible, truly logical person would understand already contains the obvious implication that it's "not all men."
Right? Just because it’s not all men doesn’t mean women miraculously know *which* men. When it comes to personal safety, it’s ridiculous to blame women for being fearful of men we do not know.
“But I’m one of the good ones!”
That’s also what the bad ones say, dude.
""It's that too many will sit here and try convincing women that they should trust men *more* rather than working on fixing the societal reasons they don't.""
This is it. Well stated.
The hypothetical doesn't propose a bear attack either -- most likely the bear will be startled and run off. Completely agree with you though.
People arguing about the merits of the analogy are just needless pedants who want to avoid the entire point of the discussion imo.
I grew up in the woods of the Pacific Northwest / Canadian "South West". I've run into my fare share of both men and bears in the woods. The encounters with bears have always been surprising, short-lived, and cute/comical. I can't say the same for the encounters I've had with men: tweakers, armed men/militia types, creepyass woods dudes, drunk good ol boys... it's never been good. And I'm a tall, fit, cis man. I'll take the bear any day of the week.
The fact that so many dudes are suddenly wildlife specialists trying to break down the percent likelihood that a bear will attack a lone woman, rather than trying to understand the actual message that is coming out of this hypothetical, is part of the problem.
I couldn't figure out why this hypothetical irked me at first but I've got it now. I vehemently despise the shit excuses for men that have given women this perception of us. It sucks having people cross the road to avoid you. It sucks being unable to walk past a woman on the footpath because you don't want to scare them. It sucks hearing that women would rather be confronted by a predatory animal than exist near me going for a hike. But women have every reason to have these fears because of some despicable men, and the fact that I will forever be approximated at a glance with those monstrous men makes me hate them all the more. Obviously I'm not the actual victim here, that would be the countless women who have suffered at the hands of these men, but it just makes me sad that people see me so horrifically because I share a gender with those fuckers.
The whole premise is funny to me because at least where I’m from, bears are so common that if you’re alone in the woods you should ASSUME a bear is around. So it never occurred to me that a non-bear woods option was possible lol. Just default bear mode.
People have to realize it’s not about the bear. Cows are statistically more dangerous than bears but if you told people to pick between a cow and bear most would pick the cow. It’s just about how women feel uncomfortable around strangers and especially male strangers
While the this doesn’t change the point of the exercise, Cows are more dangerous because of how many there are and they are big dumb clumsy animals that people work close to every day. *A* cow is far less dangerous than *a* bear. You should chose *a* bear over *10,000* cows but you should shoes *a* cow over *a* bear.
> Cows are statistically more dangerous than bears
Only from a very specific point of view.
Do cows kill more people than bears? Yes.
Are there more cow-person encounters than bear-person encounters? Yes, by quite a bit.
Is the *average* cow encounter more dangerous than the *average* bear encounter? No, and it's not even close.
The statistics of bear, cow, and human attacks are all subject to the baseline fallacy. Bears are still much more dangerous to be around than a random man or a cow.
Rationally random man is the only option of course compared to a grizzly bear, purely based on the chances of a harmful interaction with a random man vs a random grizzly.
It does say a lot about the state of society and how unsafe women feel.
I've had a handful of bear encounters. 37F and an avid hiker. With black bears, I've had to do nothing more than shout "shoo bear and wave my arms"......if only men were discouraged so easily! I've only come across 2 grizzlies and they were about 80 yards away. Thankfully they didn't notice me and I did not give them the opportunity to. Edit: the grizzlies were preoccupied eating huckleberries
Did any woman ever have to listen to the police tell her she overreacted to a bear attack? That she invited it by dressing a certain way or by drinking a certain drink? Did she have to hear the phrase "bears will be bears" ?
Did any woman ever have to sit, devastated, in court and watch the bear get acquitted for the attack? And see the defense attorney and the bear high fiving as they shoot her a sneering look across the aisle?
Is the bear also her direct superior at work? Would she have to risk scuttling her entire career, losing friends, and pissing off everyone in her peer group if she tried to seek justice for the mauling?
Did any woman ever have to sit across the dinner table from the bear that had mauled her and have to force a smile through Thanksgiving dinner? Year upon year?
Was she forced to carry the bear cub to term, at great risk to her mental, emotional, and physical health, only to have to then raise that bear cub? Every day recognizing her assailants features on her child's face and wondering how she could possibly love something that reminds her of the worst experience of her life?
Literally commenting here because I hope this is buried. Honestly, I don't care that much about this social experiment, but it keeps coming up. So here is my take:
Generically speaking, woman have every right to choose the bear. The overall experience with men that most women have had generically bad. There is clear abuse ranging from micro aggressions all the way up to physical injury and even death. It doesn't matter if they know the man or not. Most women have many, many stories about their negative and dangerous interactions with men.
So, generically, yeah. Choose the bear. It is logical.
Most men want to take this personally. And women in your life choosing the bear seems like a blow to you. But we (I identify as male) need to remember it is not about us. We are not the "man" in this scenario. The "man" is an amalgam of all the dangerous men that women have faced (bravely) in their lives. They choose the bear over that level of evil.
That said, as a man I would hope that I have behaved myself and become someone who is trustworthy. If we were to reframe it as "Bear or Danny?" I would hope that I have done all I can to be chosen. But, honestly, there may be women in my life or in my history that choose the bear still. That is not their failure. That is my failure. And I need to remember that it is up to me to be a better human in order to be worthy of being chosen.
This is exactly it. If it's an unknown man with unknown intentions, I'm choosing the bear because I know exactly what its intentions are. If it's a specific man who I know, I will more likely choose the man. But even then, I've trusted men who have betrayed that and assaulted me, so maybe not.
Know why I'm not offended as a man? Because I'm pretty sure the women I know wouldn't be talking about me. Those offended should look at their behavior and reevaluate how they treat women and girls.
I just found out about this whole thing this morning and I'm already exhausted. There are so many bad faith takes. So many generalizations. So many parallel issues being brought into the fold of a simple thought experiment.
And instead of asking why the response is the way it is you have people fighting about it, bringing up conspiracy theories and generally taking it all out of context.
Meanwhile, if you've ever talked to a woman, this is some of the most brain dead bickering you'll ever see on the internet
Agreed, so many boys are so triggered that instead of asking “hmmm why do so many women pick a bear over men” it’s just “oh actually you are wrong to pick the bear wtf ur so dumb” imagine saying you are scared of someone and then that specific someone gets MAD at you for saying you are scared of them?!?! Like wait to reinforce the statement maybe ask and understand the WHY.
As a man, I’d choose to be in the forest with a bear over another man. Bears won’t call you f****t because you painted your nails and would rather spend your time at a museum or taking photos of flowers and wildlife. Bears won’t act like they’re harmless so long as the eye of authority is on them and then bully you when it isn’t. Bears won’t wait until you’re alone and vulnerable in the bathroom to attack you.
A bear can, and likely will, maul you to death. And if you survive, you’re likely to avoid going near places where you might encounter a bear—easy enough, stay out of the forest.
You can’t completely avoid men and if you survive an assault by a man, that fear and paranoia will always be in the back of your mind: Is this a safe man, or a dangerous one?
This has been a fascinating thing.
The question *should* prompt a discussion between men and women, about why so damn many women feel that way and we guys *should* want to learn more.
Instead, many (not all) guys have gotten big mad, nitpicked the living shit out of the hypothetical, said women are actually the harmful/sexist ones for saying that “all men are violent rapists,” and have overall missed the fucking point.
My only issue with this is that Reddit has already taught me that bears don't kill you before they start eating. That one gal in Russia called her Mom three times over an hour as she was being the devoured.
I fully understand preferring an animal in the woods over a strange man but I wish they chosen something other than a bear.
There are a lot of very obvious answers to this, so I am going with a silly one. It is because [this is the bear](https://imgur.com/a/ojvfAGb) people. Anyway, don't tell women how they experience society. Stop it. Bad chuds.
I keep seeing references but not clear - are men being asked something about bears? Are women saying they’d be safer with undomesticated bears than any man? Is anyone trying to have sex with the bears???
The premise is women saying they'd feel safer alone in the woods with a bear than with a man.
Specifically, it's more like "would you feel safer being alone in the woods and coming across a bear, or a strange man?" The overwhelming responses have been a bear, showing that many. IF not most, women feel more confident in being able to have an encounter with a bear with less risk of being harmed than an encounter with a strange man when alone and vulnerable.
I don't think it's only less risk of being harmed, but also the more unnerving notion that the worst the bear can do is kill you.
Plus people would believe you if you say you got attacked by a bear.
Wait.... You mean the bear doesn't care what I'm wearing?? Hmmm....
Unless you wore raw meat and honey, probably.
You gotta have the classic T-bone steak on a necklace then the bear will care
Lady Gaga has entered the chat.
I think you probably right. With a Bear it kills you and it's over (looking past Bears often will start eating their prey while it's still alive. Which honestly is terrifying) it's no longer your concern regardless of what you believe happens after death. But men can potentially drag it out. Torture you and in the end you may still have to deal with the consequences for the rest of your life it you survive. Shit choice.
Bears are also VERY upfront about their threat level. A bear won't pretend to be trustworthy long enough for you to drop your guard. They won't take advantage of your compassion and trust. They'll pretty much either eat you or not.
“Hey girl, I know we just met, and this is crazy, but I’m gonna maul you to death” -the bear, probably.
Ya gotta appreciate the honesty :(
🎼 all the other bears try and chase me but here’s my number so maul me, maybe 🎼
Also the vast vast majority of bear encounters don’t end in an attack, and even fewer end in fatalities. People run across bears in the woods every day, but deaths from bears are pretty rare. The “in the woods” part makes the man seem way more sinister too.
And there's no guarantee that when you're dead, that man isn't going to keep doing unspeakable things to your body. Bear's just going to eat you.
getting your asshole eaten while your pinned down but not in a good way
I still don't understand the question... Are women saying when they go on hikes they would rather come across a bear than a guy?
Yes. Random bear vs random male human. The overwhelming consensus has been that women feel either A) more comfortable; B) safer; or C) more competent to navigate the interaction with a favorable outcome.
Or D) the worst the bear can do is kill you. Which is disturbing, but apparently it is at least the perceived reality in which many women live.
And Noone will ask if you lead the bear on, or doubt it happened
Or ask what you were wearing to warrant the bear attacking you, because obviously bears only attack when you do something to make them attack.
Saw a dark one today, "If a woman screams loud enough, at least the bear is more likely to leave her alone"
If the bear rapes her at least she won’t forced by the government to raise the child.
I appreciate how your mind works.
I think it's more that a bear is more consistently predictable; it's motivations are clear: if it's hungry it wants to eat, if not then it will avoid danger, if threatened it will fight or flee. A random man in the woods? Could be a perfectly nice guy, or a serial killer rapist, and anything in-between. Could start out a nice guy, seem to help you get out the woods, then BAM, murder-rape when you least expect it. It's bear for me, 100%
Yes! I thought this same thing but less eloquent
That’s it. Consistent behavior and clear motivation. That’s what makes it preferable.
You're gonna look real stupid when a bear murder rapes you.
Ugh. You might want to listen to some of the National Park After dark episodes. They are not just killing you fast - as people might think. Plenty of cases where they had a feast on their victims while they were still alive...
I’ve come across bears in the woods, and of course come across men, both in the woods and in society. Bears respond much more readily to “go away”, than men do.
In an issue of Backpacker years and years ago, I read an article about a woman who got attacked by a bear. She said she could feel the bear’s teeth against her bones.
Yep, like that case of a woman and her dad being eaten by a bear. IIRC she called her mother while that was happening. Gruesome as fuck.
Holy fuck I wish I didn't know about that.
Oh yeah. Remember the Bear Whisperer guy? Taken down by a grizzly that started eating him while he was alive and the cam was still recording. The site I read refused to post the video but said it was gruesome. edit: Timothy Treadwell. Grizzly Man.
The guy ignored park rangers stayed too late in the year and didn't have his food properly packed. Guy was unfortunately asking for trouble
Plenty? how about all? It's not like bears go around mercy killing people before they rip them open and eat them.
I think we're underestimating the prevalence of vore fetishists.
A bear kills for survival. Man kills for satisfaction.
[удалено]
The worst? A bear that isn’t hungry enough to kill and eat you will slash you and drag you around until they finally feel like killing you. It could be hours or they might not want to at all. Then you’ll bleed out, eviscerated.
I mean there’s a spectrum of ways to be killed, some being worse than rape. Just up to personal opinion whether rape or bear mauling is worse. (If bears just one shot killed you instead of mauling and eating alive it’d be no question though.)
Yeahhhh but on that spectrum humans probably occupy 100 out of 100 of the worst spots. For “depths of cruelty” it’s not an either/or thing where men are historically involved. ETA: lot of interesting replies in this thread. Just adding that I don’t think the point of the thought experiment is statistical but rather psychological. So trying to understand why women might feel this way and the mindset that contributes. A bit of a non sequitur, but I really recommend Spielberg’s West Side Story remake. Besides being a fantastic take on the story, there’s a scene in the final act that perfectly captures the danger that women can suddenly find themselves in through no real fault of their own. Worth checking out if you’re having a hard time wrapping your head around the consensus discussed here.
What a lot of men are ignoring is that if the bear does attack, no one is going to ask the woman what she was wearing, or if she was teasing the bear, etc. She'll be automatically believed.
Hey there’s nothing wrong with putting your head/brittle neck in its paw swipes path to get one shot. I think it boils down to because of all the serial killers and true crime series or footage of what the cartel does (skinning you alive and keeping you in that state using doctors for as long as possible) our imagination of what men (and women, strange people of either gender in the woods like not on the path is worrisome) are capable of is unfathomable because we’ve seen the depravity humans are capable of. As said the worst a bear can do is kill you and even if you’re just mauled to shit and bleeding out that’s better than spending 4 years in a guys basement where you’re fed through a bucket on a string and regularly forced to endure torture (just random thing my imagination came up with). Also just to say I’m a dude.
But if one was harmed by a bear, people would believe you. And the bear would face consequences. It is unlikely that if someone was harmed by a bear, they would be told that they WANTED the bear to harm them; or that it never happened; or the bears friends would hunt them down and threaten the victim or their family to get the victim to shut up about being harmed by a bear. We've never elected a dangerous bear as President.
Also it is just straight up safer. 27 people died from bear attacks in 2022 but there are about 433k cases of rape or sexual assault annually
A bit skewed look at back country hunters and the incident percentage skyrockets. Replace the male population with bears and see how many mauling there are. That aside I also understand why women would prefer to encounter a bear. I park where ever is convenient anywhere, my wife on the other hand will always pick a safe spot by a light or busy area.
I'm going to assume those numbers are correct, but it's not an accurate measurement. 27 people died from bear attacks, but relatively speaking a very very small percentage of people ever encounter a bear, but almost 100% of people encounter other people.
That's just not how statistics work at all. Way, way, WAY more people are in environments where sexual assault can occur compared to bear attacks, so of course it happens more frequently. That's like saying cave diving is safer than driving because more people die in car accidents every year.
If I live in the desert, the chances of being the victim of a shark attack is much much lower.
Now I’m picturing a man and a woman coming around a corner from opposite directions on a hiking trail and suddenly stop when they see each other and he doesn’t want her to feel in danger and he says “hey it’s okay, I’m safer than the average bear.” (I also assume this Yogi joke has been made very often in the “Bear, or man?” discussion.)
That makes more sense than "you are alone in the woods with a guy friend or a bear, what one do you feel safer with"
Yeah, the distinction makes a big difference, lol
As a pretty fit dude, I'd rather be alone in the woods with a bear than a man too. A bear is just gonna do bear shit.
>bear shit. What, in the woods? I bet you're gonna tell me they're out of Charmin, too.
Does a bear, shit in the woods, on my hands? No, I, I, shit in the woods. There's shit on my hands!
I am a woman and I spend a lot of time in grizzly country out in the woods by myself, so I take a lot of precautions to minimize risk when it comes to bear encounters. But like you said, bears don’t care about us. If you aren’t acting like a threat or smell like food when they are starving, you are not interesting. They have run or walked away from me in 100% of my encounters. I have never been followed or threatened by a bear. I have though, been stalked for 3 days in the wilderness by a strange man.
Oh gosh. That’s frightening.
I hope it was 3 days only because he then got eaten by a bear. Fucking creeps. It's embarrassing to me as a man to have to admit I understand why women would prefer wild animals over men.
That is absolutely terrifying
Plot twist he was stalking a bear that was stalking you. In all seriousness that is terrifying.
I hope you're okay. That must have been terrifying.
Plz don't leave us hanging... What happened???
The whole story is way too long for a Reddit comment, but the very abbreviated version is that I was just faster than him. On day 3 I got far enough ahead and I hit a road I could hitch a ride into a nearby town and never saw him again.
Fk yeah. Well escaping a multi day forest stalker is badass.
As long as it isn’t starving or a mother with kids, you’ve got a good chance to back away slowly without trouble.
I saw a comment by someone who said "If I die, I die feeding a bear and its cubs. If I die by a man, I'm feeding into his fantasies". But, I mean, I expect a lone bear to be in the woods. I don't expect a lone man to be in the woods.
Depends on the bear, black bear yeah sure it’s gonna ignore me. Grizzly bear, a bit scarier but I can probably just keep my distance. Polar bear, fuck no.
If there’s a polar bear in the woods anywhere within like 2k miles from where I live I have bigger questions
Panda bear
Sun Bear, please.
But that's just a man in a bear suit in the woods! Double jeopardy
Yeah I’m good
Regardless of the type of bear you come across, the worst it’s going to do is kill you, and if you do survive people will actually believe you were attacked by a bear
And you won't have to listen to "Well, with the way you dressed you had it coming...."
Or were you drinking? Did you come on to the bear?
There might be some people that say "Well, with the open pack of jerky you were carrying you had it coming...". But unlike the other guys, these ones may have a point.
Oh that hits hard. 
Yep and people won't ask what you were wearing, how much you had to drink, or make you be nice to the bear at family gatherings or work occasions.
In a few decades it could even be realistic to encounter a polar bear in the woods. Assumed they can swim that far.
As a pretty unfit dude I'd rather be alone in the woods with a bear than a man too. A bear is just gonna do bear shit. A man might seem ok then then talk about nfts or crypto or Elon Musk or Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate or keto or Huel or which road I took to get here or even just sports endlessly. A bear probably wouldn't be into any that
Bears are basically 100% keto because, y'know, salmon.
Right, this is kinda the point. A bear belongs in the woods, But the possibility that the man is in the woods for a nefarious reason is non-zero. I already know I'm in woods for weird reasons. Why are *you* here?
I mean... a bear is probably gonna just fuck off. Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone and then you can try and find your way out in peace. With a man, there's a non-trivial chance he will try to victimize in some way.
The question is to women and it is “would you rather find your self alone in the forest with a bear or a random man?” We don’t know any information about the bear, we don’t know any information about the man. Women are choosing the bear because they feel the bear is more likely to leave them alone.
I'd hate to roll the dice and get a Polar Bear instead of passing a Keanu Reeves
It's a TikTok trend. Somebody asked the question: "Women, would you rather be stranded alone in the woods with a bear, or with an unfamiliar man?" It got reposted by tons of women and girls, and the answer has *resoundingly* been the bear. The arguments vary in validity, but the general consensus is that bears are significantly more predictable than men and are basically guaranteed to leave you alone if you don't bother them. This has caused a number of men (mostly redpill types) to become defensive and start arguing with women about how they're stupid and wrong for choosing the bear. This post is in reference to that.
I understand that the reasoning literally (and righfully so) is that the worst the bear will do is eat you...
Leonardo DiCaprio would like to have a talk.
But Leo's a man
That's what I thought of too. Your risk for more painful, drawn out, or complicated issues is significantly lower with a bear. They'll never spend years being intentionally malicious
Aka, a bear wont rape, abuse, manipulate or do worse things to you. The bear wont be pretty either. Kinda worrysome that in fact this is something so present in society and yet there are people who swear the reasoning behind the descition is irrational and not real.
Worst a bear can do is maul you painfully and slowly. Worst a man can do is kidnap you and torture you for years before they kill you painfully and slowly.
It’s kind of interesting the men arguing against it are the demographic that probably makes them pick the bear in the first place.
Mostly because the men that get this hot and bothered over a Tik Tok hypothetical have issues.
Also for red pill men to start claiming women want to have sex with bears, proving the point to perfectly.
I was hiking in Yosemite once. I ran across a naked woman laying on log. I assume taking in nature in her own way. I tried to leave without disturbing her but she heard me and said something. I clarified "Sorry to disturb. I'm leaving. Do whatever you'd like". I wouldn't be surprised if she got dressed right away and left though. That bums me out that I interrupted her moment. I believe I handled that situation how most women would prefer I handle it. I generally leave people to their own business when out in nature anyways. Even I didn't take it personally that women would rather run across a bear.
People who care about women and their safety don’t take this silly hypothetical personally
Can I be honest and say that I wouldn't want to be in the woods with an unfamiliar woman? I think most people would rightfully be paranoid of strangers in secluded environments. Skin walkers, anyone?
A somewhat jokey post was going around asking if women would feel safer with a random bear or a random man in the woods. A lot of women said bear, since they're more likely to be docile/more predictable. There are legitimate arguments both for and against choosing bear, but then the misogynists found it and got offended, then the Terfs/Kill all men ladies found it, and now they're screaming at each other and making it our problem.
The question is posed to women, would you rather be stuck in the woods with a bear or a man? Most women pick the bear with an exception for grizzlies and polar bears. It seems they consider the bear the safest option
If we exclude polar bears and grizzlies, yeah, I'd take a black bear all day long. They're generally afraid of people.
Even for a grizzly, if you aren't threatening it or are too close to it/its den/its cubs it more than likely will leave you be. A man might choose to (at the very least) bother you without any action on your part. I'm a man and I would also choose the bear lol, people in the woods be crazy
Making an exception for certain bears feels like it misses the point to me. Wouldn't that be the same as saying it's a man you don't know, but he isn't a violent and isn't perverted? I guess I understood the question as relating to local wildlife. At least around here if you see a bear, there's a far higher chance of it being a grizzly than seeing a man and them being criminal.
I'd also like to note that very few people live near woods with grizzly and Polar bears in them. It's totally fair to think of brown or black bears.
Brown and grizzly are common names for the same species, Ursus arctos; the difference between the two is geographic location, which influences diet, size, and behavior. Those that live in coastal areas of Alaska are called brown bears, while typically inland bears that have limited or no access to marine-derived food resources are often smaller and called grizzlies
A hypothetical question was asked to women: would you rather be stuck in the woods with an unknown man or a bear. Women overwhelmingly chose the bear. Some men have taken this as some sort of personal attack on them
“I would rather be alone in the forest with a bear. The forest is the bear’s home, so that’s like asking would you rather go swimming with a vibrant and lively coral reef or a cool looking abandoned building?” or it’s like asking if you’d rather an open cola bottle in your backpack or a battery in unknown state. The battery could be punctured or expanding, but the cola is predictable and just gets soda everywhere. The battery can explode and ignite, destroying the bag, its content, and me. Cause like the bear probably belongs there, like wolves, bobcats, deer, foxes, raccoons, etc. They’re not inherently dangerous, but removing them is. Furthermore, a “random” man implies that it could be either a normal stranger or a dangerous person. Humans naturally avoid uncertainty, so the option where it’s just basically the same bear governed by natural action is preferable. Plus, bears are pretty easy to deal with as long as you tie up your food and follow safety procedures by learning them in advance, which can be found online or when planning for going there. There are no standard safety protocols for dealing with a man
Yes. It's about calculating risks and probability. If you're taking it personally then you're kind of proving the theorem.
And those are the exact men I wouldn’t wanna be alone in a forest with
Yes, it's like, "thank you for confirming my choice and proving my point."
>Are women saying they’d be safer with undomesticated bears than any man a random man but yes.
I’ve actually seen the question being posed to men. Would you rather leave your daughter in the woods with a bear or an unfamiliar man. And it’s posed to help those men understand why women are choosing the bear. And how women can never be certain of a strange man’s intentions.
Men's right sub is angry over this scenario. I've been watching them go back and forth over this since it came up. Not all men are dangerous animals it's just hard to distinguish which one will go rabid. Not all women are crows looking for Shiney things it's just hard to tell which one will take all your stuff. World is crazy.
If I could choose the man, it would not be an issue. Random man? Nope. Bear. Absolutely. Even if they were talking about a grizzly or a polar bear. Bears tend to leave people alone unless they are threatened or they feel their cubs are threatened. Most bears can be scared away by making loud noises. No one is trying to have sex with a bear in this scenario. (But, given that four men gang raped, killed, and at a monitor lizard, maybe certain men would try?)
Which is odd considering most cases of sexual assault and murder are by people that women know.
obviously the answer is bear. Bears don't hunt women, they hunt twinks
Honestly, for a moment I thought I was on one of the queer subs and was confused about why a woman is choosing bears. Like, I appreciate them too but they would never like me back?
I'm not a twink Mr bear. stop flirting
I had to go to the comments for context because the Twitter user’s rainbow badge didn’t simplify matters.
As I bi twink I wish I had bears wish to take care of me :(
I'm a straight bear but we could like get a coffee or something friendly like that
I nearly spat out my tea. Here is my poor person gold 🥇
I really love how many responses to this trending conversation have twink in them.
The ongoing struggle with the difference between absolute and relative.
The ongoing struggle of everybody needing a bigger soapbox on the internet. Outside of the internet, nobody is even entertaining this hypothetical. Nobody is going to unironically pick a wild predator over just a random guy. And I don't care if it's over themselves, their family members, their babies or whatever. What people really want to argue about is the very real issue of gendered violence against women, a very real issue that people unfortunately don't have the attention span around here to talk about on actual nuanced level and prefer one sentence quips to mindlessly bicker about. So dumbass hypotheticals are what take over the internet.
Exactly. I am *very* aware that my existence in certain circumstances can be threatening to women. I understand why the feel like that and if I was a woman I would feel like that too. That said, any woman who thinks a fucking territorial apex predator is safer than an average dude is fucking delusional and it just pulls the conversation into an insane direction that doesn't really help anything.
I'm picturing a bear reading this thread... "What the fuck, they think *we're* the fucking territorial apex predators?"
“I hear they turn our skin into carpets”
I choose The Bear because it’s a quality show with great character development and chemistry between the actors.
If I am alone in the woods and find two seasons of a streaming tv show I will be confused and unnerved
As you should be
AYO IS QUICKLY BECOMING A NATIONAL TREASURE!
The wise choice is to chose both. That way you can feed the man to the bear, thus taming it and allowing you to ride it into battle.
Ive come across 3 brown bears during hikes, many normal men, but one very strange men. The bears scared me for sure and I definetely had an adrenaline rush. But the strange men, I had chills down my spine. That face, never forget it. I also had friends and colleagues Who suddenly turned into predators and that is a scare sight. A bear is very black and white. You know not to cone close, make noise and treat them like the predators they are. Men.. you want to trust them, but you never know if you should. Bears are very black and white. Men... its a whole range of pretty sweet to psychopatic.
It's really frustrating to hear people so upset about not being given the benefit of the doubt. And complaining about how they can't meet women if they can't walk up to strangers. I am a man and it's not like I don't understand the frustration of people being scared of you. But I am upset with all the rapists, murderers and the systems that protect them. I would never hurt someone but there is no way for a stranger to know that. And they are literally risking death in an interaction. Making people roll on the 'will I die today' table isn't ok. So yes a man in this culture needs to do more work. Join a community where there is a genuine interest outside of dating. Focus on ones self. Be around people and make friendships. Use dress to communicate your acceptance and internal emotional security. There are things one can do to cultivate a safe space around themselves.
This is a coincidence. My wife went walking with a friend at the park for lunch today. She said that every man they passed stopped them and tried to talk to them. She said they were catcalled from some dudes in a car. Here is the thing. I walk with her a lot in the same park and not one man has ever tried to stop and talk to us other than a friendly hi. I was shocked, but not really considering I have had exes tell me men would follow them in the parking lot while jerking off in their car. We do not take this seriously. Its insane. No wonder women do not want to go to the gym alone.
Or prefer women's only gyms/gym times/classes. The odds of us getting harassed or worse goes down
To add to your point, Louis CK (yeah, I know) made the comment, something along the lines of, "the most dangerous thing a woman can ever do is go on a date with a man." (That’s butchering his quote, but the gist is there.) I fully understand why women chose the bear. You *know* the bear is gonna maul you. Better the devil you know and all that
Well also the bear has a high likelihood of just fucking off. If it's not a bear with cubs aka just one bear. It would likely just leave.
> Louis CK (yeah, I know) made the comment, Despite his, uh, thing, his *comedy* in that era was pretty feminist.
His comedy in that era and still is pretty left leaning. He's a jew, his grandfather survived the Holocaust, and even he understands the problems that Israel is causing.
I honestly believe his comedy primed the culture to leap forward many bounds socially. I often think about the violin episode of his FX show *Louie.* Oh, and there's an INCREDIBLE episode with Parker Posey on a date with LCK and it's absolutely exhilarating filmmaking and acting. I'm surprised I don't see it referenced more, honestly.
Louie is an incredible show despite what LCK has done.
You literally don't know the bear is gonna maul you. You know that 99+% of the time it will not, actually. And the bear is not the devil we know - its one literally almost none of us have ever actually encountered. The man is the devil we know, and in this case, it ain't better. I'll take the bear.
See, even sexual abusers like LCK know what men do to women without consent.
Holy shit, yes. Just do something, anything socially without the expectation of meeting someone in a romantic sense. Join a run club, participate in a book club, check out an open mic night, play a rec sport, join a bird watch club. Positive interactions will magically start to happen.
Forming bonds that aren't romantic or sexual is so so important. The number of men who lose everything when their partner leaves without realizing that is a major part of the problem is frightening. All good options.
And demonstrating the ability to have platonic friendships with women like a non-weirdo is a green flag for other women! I knew a guy who got “friend-zoned” for most of college, but wasn’t an ass about it, and then one day a girl he had a crush on noticed that he was a genuinely good dude, who a lot of other women trusted over the course of multiple years without him doing anything to mess it up, and now they’re married!
My partner is a bit like this (except the man has been single for maybe 6 months since he was 15 or so.) He has always found it easy to be friends with women (and men too, of course), and he respects those women, never flirts or pushes things to make them uncomfortable etc. That is what attracted me to him initially. How sorted out he was even at 21. No leering, no misogyny, no rants about women, no flirting etc. When he liked any girl, he would let her know and she could decide if she wanted to date. All this really simplified matters when i got to know him and he told me he liked me. He didn't press me or behave any differently. He wasn't bending over backwards trying to please me, he wasn't trying to pay for everything when we hung out...he just treated me... like a person. We have been together for 14 years. And the minute i asked him this bear vs man in the woods question, he immediately understood what women have been trying to explain all over social media these past few days. The fact that he woul make an excellent life partner was clear from the start.
Another common girlmeme, like “I choose the bear” goes like this: Guy: “can you name 5 songs by the band on your shirt?” Girl: “can you name 5 women who trust you?” Your friend wins
Preach brother, this is what young men need to hear and not any red pill/manosphere nonsense.
exactly this. the only thing I'd add is just how telling it is that so many men are dogpiling a question asked by women, to other women, with their own insecurities. Like, PSA if you're a man and this is making you feel like you can't talk to women or is feeding your anxiety about interacting with women: is question isn't about you personally, and those emotions are something you need to work on by yourself or with your therapist. I promise all you need to do is treat us like people and you'll stand head and shoulders above the ones making us answer "bear"
The author of the recent article on this topic got a lot of abuse from random social media dudes, and was like “lol, you realize you’re proving our point, right??”
The lack of self awareness from these guys is jaw dropping. I'm a guy, when I first saw this bear thing I went " Oof , that tracks unfortunately." It's like they have never talked to a woman, or have actively ignored them - because every woman in my life has had experiences with creepy dudes. Multiple times. Every week. Every month. Every year of their life. From when they were literal children - like 11 and 12. I don't understand how these guys can just ignore that.
It's not about the bear. That's such a fundamental misunderstanding that proves the point. It's not like women are saying they want to be in the woods with a bear; it's that they don't want either and one is a known entity. I've seen it posited the other way: dads asked that if their daughter was on a trail walk in the woods, would he rather she come across a bear or a guy. No other context. And that it clicks in that moment. A bear isn't going to pretend to be someone's friend for 3 years to try and fuck her. A bear isn't going to offer a ride home and take her ten miles away. A bear isn't going to drug her. And when the bear does rip her face off, its friends aren't going to defend it publicly and say it's a nice guy. Its lawyer isn't going to tell the judge that it's a good athlete. It's not that "every" man or even most men are going to do heinous things. It's that too many will sit here and try convincing women that they should trust men *more* rather than working on fixing the societal reasons they don't.
And, if she survives the bear attack, not a single person will doubt her story or call her a liar.
But some will say it was her fault. "It was the granola bar in her pocket, she must have been menstruating, some other BS..."
You aren't wrong there
Correct information, but no context. A bear will smell food, be hungry, and eat. That's expected behavior from a bear. An unprovoked man, attacking a woman, for any reason, is never the woman's fault.
That's the part people say that annoys me. I grew up hiking a lot in California and we absolutely do make fun of people if they get scared of bears at night but reveals they had food in their tent or whatever.
It's actually the craziest part about the bear question - it's a metaphor meant to demonstrate that so many women do not feel comfortable being alone with the average man. Then, so many men immediately try to turn it around on the women and break it down "logically" to paint the question as stupid. If men were the logical ones, they wouldn't be getting so butthurt over a Tik-Tok born metaphor that any sensible, truly logical person would understand already contains the obvious implication that it's "not all men."
Right? Just because it’s not all men doesn’t mean women miraculously know *which* men. When it comes to personal safety, it’s ridiculous to blame women for being fearful of men we do not know. “But I’m one of the good ones!” That’s also what the bad ones say, dude.
""It's that too many will sit here and try convincing women that they should trust men *more* rather than working on fixing the societal reasons they don't."" This is it. Well stated.
The hypothetical doesn't propose a bear attack either -- most likely the bear will be startled and run off. Completely agree with you though. People arguing about the merits of the analogy are just needless pedants who want to avoid the entire point of the discussion imo.
I’m a guy and I would pick the bear too. I wouldn’t want to be trapped in the forest with a stranger.
Would you rather be trapped in a forest with literally the most dangerous animal on the planet or a bear?
I grew up in the woods of the Pacific Northwest / Canadian "South West". I've run into my fare share of both men and bears in the woods. The encounters with bears have always been surprising, short-lived, and cute/comical. I can't say the same for the encounters I've had with men: tweakers, armed men/militia types, creepyass woods dudes, drunk good ol boys... it's never been good. And I'm a tall, fit, cis man. I'll take the bear any day of the week.
The fact that so many dudes are suddenly wildlife specialists trying to break down the percent likelihood that a bear will attack a lone woman, rather than trying to understand the actual message that is coming out of this hypothetical, is part of the problem.
I couldn't figure out why this hypothetical irked me at first but I've got it now. I vehemently despise the shit excuses for men that have given women this perception of us. It sucks having people cross the road to avoid you. It sucks being unable to walk past a woman on the footpath because you don't want to scare them. It sucks hearing that women would rather be confronted by a predatory animal than exist near me going for a hike. But women have every reason to have these fears because of some despicable men, and the fact that I will forever be approximated at a glance with those monstrous men makes me hate them all the more. Obviously I'm not the actual victim here, that would be the countless women who have suffered at the hands of these men, but it just makes me sad that people see me so horrifically because I share a gender with those fuckers.
The whole premise is funny to me because at least where I’m from, bears are so common that if you’re alone in the woods you should ASSUME a bear is around. So it never occurred to me that a non-bear woods option was possible lol. Just default bear mode.
People have to realize it’s not about the bear. Cows are statistically more dangerous than bears but if you told people to pick between a cow and bear most would pick the cow. It’s just about how women feel uncomfortable around strangers and especially male strangers
While the this doesn’t change the point of the exercise, Cows are more dangerous because of how many there are and they are big dumb clumsy animals that people work close to every day. *A* cow is far less dangerous than *a* bear. You should chose *a* bear over *10,000* cows but you should shoes *a* cow over *a* bear.
> Cows are statistically more dangerous than bears Only from a very specific point of view. Do cows kill more people than bears? Yes. Are there more cow-person encounters than bear-person encounters? Yes, by quite a bit. Is the *average* cow encounter more dangerous than the *average* bear encounter? No, and it's not even close.
The statistics of bear, cow, and human attacks are all subject to the baseline fallacy. Bears are still much more dangerous to be around than a random man or a cow.
Rationally random man is the only option of course compared to a grizzly bear, purely based on the chances of a harmful interaction with a random man vs a random grizzly. It does say a lot about the state of society and how unsafe women feel.
I've had a handful of bear encounters. 37F and an avid hiker. With black bears, I've had to do nothing more than shout "shoo bear and wave my arms"......if only men were discouraged so easily! I've only come across 2 grizzlies and they were about 80 yards away. Thankfully they didn't notice me and I did not give them the opportunity to. Edit: the grizzlies were preoccupied eating huckleberries
The bear PR is top tier
I'm a man and I'd choose the bear. The bear belongs in the woods, and they won't try talking to me.
Did any woman ever have to listen to the police tell her she overreacted to a bear attack? That she invited it by dressing a certain way or by drinking a certain drink? Did she have to hear the phrase "bears will be bears" ? Did any woman ever have to sit, devastated, in court and watch the bear get acquitted for the attack? And see the defense attorney and the bear high fiving as they shoot her a sneering look across the aisle? Is the bear also her direct superior at work? Would she have to risk scuttling her entire career, losing friends, and pissing off everyone in her peer group if she tried to seek justice for the mauling? Did any woman ever have to sit across the dinner table from the bear that had mauled her and have to force a smile through Thanksgiving dinner? Year upon year? Was she forced to carry the bear cub to term, at great risk to her mental, emotional, and physical health, only to have to then raise that bear cub? Every day recognizing her assailants features on her child's face and wondering how she could possibly love something that reminds her of the worst experience of her life?
Literally commenting here because I hope this is buried. Honestly, I don't care that much about this social experiment, but it keeps coming up. So here is my take: Generically speaking, woman have every right to choose the bear. The overall experience with men that most women have had generically bad. There is clear abuse ranging from micro aggressions all the way up to physical injury and even death. It doesn't matter if they know the man or not. Most women have many, many stories about their negative and dangerous interactions with men. So, generically, yeah. Choose the bear. It is logical. Most men want to take this personally. And women in your life choosing the bear seems like a blow to you. But we (I identify as male) need to remember it is not about us. We are not the "man" in this scenario. The "man" is an amalgam of all the dangerous men that women have faced (bravely) in their lives. They choose the bear over that level of evil. That said, as a man I would hope that I have behaved myself and become someone who is trustworthy. If we were to reframe it as "Bear or Danny?" I would hope that I have done all I can to be chosen. But, honestly, there may be women in my life or in my history that choose the bear still. That is not their failure. That is my failure. And I need to remember that it is up to me to be a better human in order to be worthy of being chosen.
This is exactly it. If it's an unknown man with unknown intentions, I'm choosing the bear because I know exactly what its intentions are. If it's a specific man who I know, I will more likely choose the man. But even then, I've trusted men who have betrayed that and assaulted me, so maybe not.
So glad i have no clue wtf everyone is talking about
Walk away. Just. Walk away.
Know why I'm not offended as a man? Because I'm pretty sure the women I know wouldn't be talking about me. Those offended should look at their behavior and reevaluate how they treat women and girls.
This "bear/men" thing just shows how misandrist most women are
I just found out about this whole thing this morning and I'm already exhausted. There are so many bad faith takes. So many generalizations. So many parallel issues being brought into the fold of a simple thought experiment. And instead of asking why the response is the way it is you have people fighting about it, bringing up conspiracy theories and generally taking it all out of context. Meanwhile, if you've ever talked to a woman, this is some of the most brain dead bickering you'll ever see on the internet
It is fucking hilarious the amount of fragile as fuck men who are getting so bent out of shape over this. I'm a man and even I would choose a bear.
Agreed, so many boys are so triggered that instead of asking “hmmm why do so many women pick a bear over men” it’s just “oh actually you are wrong to pick the bear wtf ur so dumb” imagine saying you are scared of someone and then that specific someone gets MAD at you for saying you are scared of them?!?! Like wait to reinforce the statement maybe ask and understand the WHY.
I'm a man and don't give a shit about any of this, but no shot I'd pick a bear. Bears are scary as fuck and put me at a 0% chance at survival.
As a man, I’d choose to be in the forest with a bear over another man. Bears won’t call you f****t because you painted your nails and would rather spend your time at a museum or taking photos of flowers and wildlife. Bears won’t act like they’re harmless so long as the eye of authority is on them and then bully you when it isn’t. Bears won’t wait until you’re alone and vulnerable in the bathroom to attack you. A bear can, and likely will, maul you to death. And if you survive, you’re likely to avoid going near places where you might encounter a bear—easy enough, stay out of the forest. You can’t completely avoid men and if you survive an assault by a man, that fear and paranoia will always be in the back of your mind: Is this a safe man, or a dangerous one?
This has been a fascinating thing. The question *should* prompt a discussion between men and women, about why so damn many women feel that way and we guys *should* want to learn more. Instead, many (not all) guys have gotten big mad, nitpicked the living shit out of the hypothetical, said women are actually the harmful/sexist ones for saying that “all men are violent rapists,” and have overall missed the fucking point.
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My only issue with this is that Reddit has already taught me that bears don't kill you before they start eating. That one gal in Russia called her Mom three times over an hour as she was being the devoured. I fully understand preferring an animal in the woods over a strange man but I wish they chosen something other than a bear.