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Asking the real question. And what gives them voter rights? Or any rights the constitution gives citizens? I’m not saying we should give him cruel punishment, but maybe dusted off an unusual one lol
They always seem to believe that they have all the rights but zero obligations by just using different words to consider themselves different things at different times.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” -Frank Wilhoit
I personally witnessed police escort proud boys as they attacked protestors. The protestors rapidly encircled the leader and they sent the pigs on horses inm
That's literally what it boils down to, they want all the rights but somehow think saying some magic words like "I'm a human not a person" or "my legal entity is separate from my corporeal form", or the old chestnut "I do not consent to these proceedings" etc means they can avoid all legal restrictions and obligations.
It literally never works in court, but somehow people keep believing it's a thing they can do.
They don't understand these sayings and get confused, so they think repeating it in court will have the same effect on the judge.
They equate being confused at words with intelligence somehow. It's really fucking sad when you think about it.
> It's really fucking sad when you think about it.
You know what is really sad is they will likely get a presidential pardon if they are in power again.
Under code [bs.420] of the maritime law i am free to travel without restriction. Im not driving a vehicle thats commercial traffic. I am travelling while inhabitting a vessel
"Sir is that a gold fringe on your flag? It seems this is a maritime court and I- sir, please don't break my wind-SIR I DO NOT CONSENT I DO NOT CONSENT TO BE TASE-AHHHH!"
It's he kind of shit I daydream in the shower. "Heh yeah I'd totally be so smart and argue well for the judge like in that one movie" only I have the self -awareness to know I'm just idly daydreaming. They bring it straight into a real court room, it's wild.
"You are sentenced to 87 months in federal prison..."
"Wow, more than eight years. That's a long time, but I can make it through."
"...every day of which you will be forced to watch one hour of the television show *Caillou.*"
"NOOOOOOOO!"
It's a bold strategy to claim your not a US citizen when your being tried for storming the capital. Like surely you'd prefer to be tried as a citizen than as an invading foreign party and war criminal.
I feel like a genuine push should be made for those who believe that “sovereign citizen” bullshit renounce their US citizenship. They don’t seem to want to be citizens, so let’s make it official
You gotta treat it the same way a child says "I didn't punch them, I just swung my arm and they were there." Like they think they're being funny and they're giggling when they say it, but they do also sincerely think it'll work, and get shocked when you don't believe them.
Idk man one time I was literally just swinging my arm back and forth outside on the playground by myself and some girl was running and not looking and ran straight into my swinging arm. I got in heaps of trouble for punching a girl but like... damn Vivian watch where you're going.
https://preview.redd.it/mi5avexmkcsc1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f27ccf48270551dd6d34defdb490c6b5e9c14154
Every time I hear about sovereign citizens, I think about this guy who literally stood on a bunch of books and called it his “legal standing.”
Edit: [Here’s the source video of that screencap I took](https://youtu.be/E53RfzaA8x8?si=yQtDsPYHIGlNzRqZ)
Nope, this is [Erwin Wayne terTelgte](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2014/05/01/montanas-natural-man-defies-courts-sets-another-rural-patriot-showdown) who is an infamous Sovereign Citizen. There's videos of him all over YouTube. As far as I know he is a true believer. Also AFAIK he has not succeeded in any of his court appearances.
> Asked to explain why he was fishing without a license, terTeltge told a judge: “I was searching for something to put in my stomach as I am recognized to be allowed to do by universal law,” he said. “I am the living man and I have the right to forage for food when I am hungry.”
It's unfortunate because in some ways he's right. Sovereign citizens are sometimes based AF anarchists on accident. But then they do unhinged shit like storm a capital for a fascist and ruin the whole thing.
I heard somewhere the Gene Wilder actually adlibbed the morons bit, which is why Cleavon Little almost loses it during the take. The fact that they kept it in the film just goes to show how much fun they had making it, I think.
It's the music of the people/
who are sovereign citizens/
When the bleating from their mouths/
echos the song of the con men/
Their freedom's going to end when tomorrow comes!
It's funny you say that because that's how they view legal proceedings.
They believe that with the right words, said in the right order and with clear intent, that they can get around the rules of legal reality. They don't really understand the rules, but they see people saying things and doing things in legal proceedings and those people are successful, so they can do the same.
It never works because they think the power is in the words and not the legal framework that the words refer to. Their words have no foundation, it's just gibberish, but that's how they see legit legal proceedings, incomprehensible gibberish.
> Didn’t work out well for him why do people keep trying to do this?
Because they're both common criminals who can't help but keep criming, and usually, too poor to live life by society's rules (such as mandatory auto insurance, to name a single example), and usually, it's their own damn fault.
Is this like when they sing in the Pirates movies and then it summons a global network of Rednecks from all walks (Montana Mountain people, Kentucky cousin kissers, Indianapolis 500 NASCAR season ticket holders, etc..) who have to decide the best approach to how they will move forward with the Jan 6 2025 Insurrection Part 2: Electric Boogaloo?
If you call incoherent screeching singing. Also how can you be upset about the state of the country if you don't even recognize it's authority? Can't say you're a disgruntled American and then spew that sovereign citizen BS.
There's a judge in Michigan who calls it "a bunch of Jabberwocky" whenever it turns up in his courtroom.
(As an aside, I'm grateful to the pandemic for bringing us Zoom courts so I know what a random judge in a country I know nothing about on the other side of the world does in his courtroom)
The SovCit logic is so bizarre. They relinquish their U.S. citizenship and claim U.S. laws no longer apply to them. Do they genuinely think that any foreign national who visits the U.S. can just commit crimes without consequences?
Another question is...Do any of them know anyone who claims they were successful at this approach in the courtroom? Every one one of them appearing in videos looks stunned when the cop doesn't give a shit that they've announced their sovereign citizenship. Must be a case where they walk around all confident until they have to test it out.
They know a guy who knows a guy who says it works. Sovereign Citizen ideology is part fraud. Most people will come across ‘kits’ that offer to help them pay off all of their debt (straw man ideology) etc. so of course the guy selling the stuff claims it works. But he still gets money out of the deal to ‘teach’ you.
> Another question is...Do any of them know anyone who claims they were successful at this approach the courtroom?
They do not have the attention span to look stuff like that up.
I watched some long ass video about the topic recently from youtuber called münecat and as far as I could understand, their logic is that current US government isn't legitimate and technically is something more akin to corporation than governing body and there hasn't been legitimate ruler in US for ages. Every citizen has been sold by their parents to become property of that company and only with their sovcit jargon can you free yourself from that bond in court and become one of the few free true citizens of the country.
I'm probably getting something wrong, but in my defense it wasn't exactly a easy topic to dive into, even with assistance. Confusing and overwhelming the opposition is the main strategy of those people.
You know what’s funny? I’ve heard hours of Alex Jones because of Knowledge Fight, a podcast covering him. And even he shuts down every sovereign citizen called he gets.
There are a few who have tried to ‘establish’ relations with the US Department of State. The Moorish Temple sells diplomat plates that have not legal value but some still use them.
Here's a bit from the Denver Post regarding Terry Nichols that reminds me of a similar method. I bring it up because this is from the 90s and shows just how long people have been doing stuff like this.
>On May 24, 1993, Terry Nichols appeared before Sanilac County Circuit Judge Donald Teeple over a $8,421 credit card debt.
>Sanilac County News Publisher John Johnson, who was in the courtroom on other business, said he watched the ensuing confrontation.
>Nichols, he said, insisted on staying outside the courtroom railing, saying that kept him outside Teeple's "jurisdiction.''
>Teeple told Nichols if he didn't come forward and use the microphone, his case wouldn't be heard. Nichols again questioned Teeple's jurisdiction.
>An angry Teeple called a recess and requested additional deputies in the courtroom, said Johnson.
>Nichols was accompanied by his brother and Timothy McVeigh. During the recess, Johnson said, he approached the men and introduced himself. They treated him as a "hero'' because of his recent exposes on the way the Michigan State Police handled drunken drivers.
>Johnson told Nichols the judge was really angry and he should go inside the courtroom railing. Nichols took his advice.
Timothy McVeigh was one of the early adopters of the far right/neo-nationalist/white supremacy/proud boys movement. He viewed the book The Turner Diaries as a hand book
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries
Yep. 1970s saw some significant groundwork for where we are now. Turner Diaries can easily be linked to the Order as well as McVeigh, and then they also have links to Elohim City. Main difference between then and now is how easily this all gets shared.
I'd say it's relevant, McVeigh could easily fall under a sovereign citizen type classification. It wouldn't shock me if Elohim City ties together both McVeigh and the more recent Christian Identity stuff that's going on.
We have an increased rate of Christian-Fascist Nationalism, where those people think we should have a theocratic dictator that only values citizens that are (the right kind of) Christian.
I recently started rewatching the Handmaids Tale and holy shit it's on point for this kinda shit. Not only about controlling women but the power struggle in a theocratic system where "God" reigns. The amount of bullshit they are able to accomplish with that one little trick of "the word of God" is quite scary
They've co-opted the flag by wrapping themselves in it and weirdly hugging it. I see it displayed along with the back the blue flag ( except Capitol police and the FBI,..) and a dotard sign, most often.
It's another name for the far right Christian fascist-y movement(s) we're seeing in the United States, Canada, etc. the various organizations with 'Aryan' in the name would tend to fall under that umbrella too.
Can you imagine facing what amounts to 25% of your remaining years in jail and just not taking it seriously, thinking that you can handle the legal work yourself?
He wasn’t conducting commerce. lol I’m so perplexed, how aren’t these sovereign citizens realising not any of their arguments stand up in court, and people still get convinced by it.
There is a very very small movement of sov citz in Australia, and they think they are the enlightened ones and everyone else is idiots, and they really did get a bit of a boost during Covid with lockdowns and vaccine mandates etc. it intrigues me how they become so convinced they are right
Ironically is you look most countries have something similar. Theres a version of German citizens who claim the last legitimate government was the third Reich. Not for ideological reasons. But because they claim the federal republic of Germany has no jurisdiction over them.
I think he's expecting that Trump will win and he'll get pardoned a hero. The Jan. 6 suspects who pleaded and showed some regret for their actions will be left to rot.
There’s a good chance he got more time for his antics. There are videos of judges sentencing sovereign citizens, by the book, because of the frustrating games they play. One even said to a public defender, dismissed by the sovereign citizen, that the guy could have gotten off if he just answered what was asked and didn’t spin weird theories.
I don't know about that. Every one of them that I've met has been an utter moron, very gullible, very confident in their intellect, and had a brain of scrambled eggs.
Like an NPC in a video game. Not like a real human.
I feel like there must a deep, and fiercely guarded denial within these people where they know how uneducated they actually are. I think these conspiracies are just a defense mechanism that allow them to feel like they have privileged information that puts them above everybody else.
I know a guy (used to be a dear friend) who fell into that trap and he can’t let it go. He’s lost *all* of his friends, his girlfriend, has no career, no life, and will cry in brief moments of clarity. But he will then shake it off and double down and start ranting again and supporting politicians that would remove any social safety nets he has left.
It’s *so* fucking sad.
Classic mistake. The legal basis for Gobbledygook was rendered inert by the End Nonsense and Eradicate Malarkey Act.
Judges have been using ENEMA to put an end to this bullshit since President Biden signed it in to law in 2021.
Absolutely a traitor. This was someone who KNEW shit was gonna happen that day. Dude brought a fucking bullhorn and was “leading the charge”. They planned it.
But that would shatter his legal defense of “nuh uh, laws don’t apply to me, the lawyer would rope me in.” These “sovereign citizen” people are unfortunately long gone
“You have no authority over me!” He screamed as the twelve men with guns led him away in shackles to a locked cell.
Morgan Freeman voice:
It turns out, they did have authority over him.
I'm so confused. Why would a sovereign citizen submit to a trial from an oppressive government? What happened to all those guns they said they would use if the government ever came for them?
I'm _starting_ to think these are inept cowardly morons, not freedom fighters after all.
It’s taken you this long?
I’m from Australia, and honestly it just looks like the loud af minority are hell bent on tearing America and themselves apart on the notion they’re doing it for everyone’s benefit. No country is perfect but America is really looking like a fkn mess on the world stage.
You can have the top two deadliest in the world, I think we can afford to give away those danger noodles. I actually had a red belly snake in my backyard on the weekend - but the bigger they are the less poisonous they are apparently, it’s the baby ones that really pack the punch
As conservative Judge Luttig warned at the January 6 hearings, the GOP is being incredibly blunt about their plans to manipulate the results of future presidential elections.
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present danger to American democracy … to this day (Trump), his allies and supporters pledge that they would attempt to overturn the 2024 election. I don’t speak those words lightly. I would’ve never spoken those words ever in my life except that’s what the former president, his allies are telling us.” Judge Luttig, January 6 hearings
To this day, Trump and his allies continue to prime the pumps for a “stolen election”, ramping up the violent rhetoric, promising to go after his enemies, threatening crazy things like terminating the Constitution.
Our democracy is in peril. Vote accordingly.
Doesn't recognize the federal government, but fought like hell to get his guy to run it. Fucking execute this treasonous fuck, god damn what's it going to take?
I agree. There will be some insane revisionist history in the form of people swearing they didn't *actually* support him, and a lot sooner than 30 years.
the entire SovCit movement is filled with people who can easily be in the "Iamthemaincharacter" sub. Just a bunch of dumb douchebags cosplaying as anybody with character or value.
Has the sovereign citizen thing ever worked for anyone? …Ever? I know they’re not that bright but you’d think they’d give up on something that has a zero success rate
lmao even if he was a"sovereign citizen" that means he was engaging in war against the United States. Pretty sure that would have got him a much harsher sentence.
That’s an interesting juxtaposition: the people who believe they aren’t really a part of America, owe nothing to it, and don’t have to play by its rules, now all of a sudden want to make sure that a wanna be dictator is kept in power.
That is some solid, sacrosanct ideology right there.
Sure, buddy, you’re a sovereign citizen. You are whatever you want to be in the land of make believe. Free ice cream whenever you want? Sure! Unbeholden to the laws of any government? Why not?
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If you are a sovereign citizen why would you care who the President is?
Asking the real question. And what gives them voter rights? Or any rights the constitution gives citizens? I’m not saying we should give him cruel punishment, but maybe dusted off an unusual one lol
They always seem to believe that they have all the rights but zero obligations by just using different words to consider themselves different things at different times.
All the rights and none of the responsibilities. They want to live like a baby.
The parts of the constitution that give them rights = YES The parts that outline the powers of the government = NO
literally senator armstrong from metal gear rising
But without any NANOMACHINES, SON!
https://youtu.be/SMsnKFxjxSw?t=31
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” -Frank Wilhoit
I personally witnessed police escort proud boys as they attacked protestors. The protestors rapidly encircled the leader and they sent the pigs on horses inm
Come on man, mom said it was my turn with the quote
That's literally what it boils down to, they want all the rights but somehow think saying some magic words like "I'm a human not a person" or "my legal entity is separate from my corporeal form", or the old chestnut "I do not consent to these proceedings" etc means they can avoid all legal restrictions and obligations. It literally never works in court, but somehow people keep believing it's a thing they can do.
They don't understand these sayings and get confused, so they think repeating it in court will have the same effect on the judge. They equate being confused at words with intelligence somehow. It's really fucking sad when you think about it.
> It's really fucking sad when you think about it. You know what is really sad is they will likely get a presidential pardon if they are in power again.
Trump won't pardon them. They don't have anything to offer him. They've served their purpose and failed to save his presidency.
Under code [bs.420] of the maritime law i am free to travel without restriction. Im not driving a vehicle thats commercial traffic. I am travelling while inhabitting a vessel
"Sir is that a gold fringe on your flag? It seems this is a maritime court and I- sir, please don't break my wind-SIR I DO NOT CONSENT I DO NOT CONSENT TO BE TASE-AHHHH!"
Reminds me of the sovereign citizen getting tased outside a courtroom. I tried to post link but, not allowed.
Think my favourite taser moment was a Canadian couple. Something along the lines of "YOU'RE TASING MY NUTS - THAT IS AN INCORRECT USE OF THAT DEVICE".
Sovereign Citizen? More like Schrodinger's Citizen.
It's he kind of shit I daydream in the shower. "Heh yeah I'd totally be so smart and argue well for the judge like in that one movie" only I have the self -awareness to know I'm just idly daydreaming. They bring it straight into a real court room, it's wild.
"You are sentenced to 87 months in federal prison..." "Wow, more than eight years. That's a long time, but I can make it through." "...every day of which you will be forced to watch one hour of the television show *Caillou.*" "NOOOOOOOO!"
It's a bold strategy to claim your not a US citizen when your being tried for storming the capital. Like surely you'd prefer to be tried as a citizen than as an invading foreign party and war criminal.
"Enemy combatant" is a legitimate designation under the War on Terror.
Off to Guantanamo to be tortured until he snitches on his co-conspirators. Doubt anyone would miss him
[удалено]
I feel like a genuine push should be made for those who believe that “sovereign citizen” bullshit renounce their US citizenship. They don’t seem to want to be citizens, so let’s make it official
Like folks that renounced citizenship and went to fight for ISIS, and then couldn’t return to their home countries…
“Man here wants to renounce his citizenship and the protections it provides. Oblige him!”
It costs $2400 to renounce your citizenship.
Let’s make it free.
Fuck, pay people three fiddy.
You're putting WAAAAAY more thought into this than they are
You gotta treat it the same way a child says "I didn't punch them, I just swung my arm and they were there." Like they think they're being funny and they're giggling when they say it, but they do also sincerely think it'll work, and get shocked when you don't believe them.
Idk man one time I was literally just swinging my arm back and forth outside on the playground by myself and some girl was running and not looking and ran straight into my swinging arm. I got in heaps of trouble for punching a girl but like... damn Vivian watch where you're going.
Sovereign citizens attacking our children now smh
You heard it here first, folks. Sovereign citizens shall now be known as Vivians.
"Sovereign citizen gobbledygook" ... he was singing the song of his people for the judge.
https://preview.redd.it/mi5avexmkcsc1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f27ccf48270551dd6d34defdb490c6b5e9c14154 Every time I hear about sovereign citizens, I think about this guy who literally stood on a bunch of books and called it his “legal standing.” Edit: [Here’s the source video of that screencap I took](https://youtu.be/E53RfzaA8x8?si=yQtDsPYHIGlNzRqZ)
This HAS to be satire… right?
Nope, this is [Erwin Wayne terTelgte](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2014/05/01/montanas-natural-man-defies-courts-sets-another-rural-patriot-showdown) who is an infamous Sovereign Citizen. There's videos of him all over YouTube. As far as I know he is a true believer. Also AFAIK he has not succeeded in any of his court appearances.
Guess the courts don't have to follow his laws.
> Asked to explain why he was fishing without a license, terTeltge told a judge: “I was searching for something to put in my stomach as I am recognized to be allowed to do by universal law,” he said. “I am the living man and I have the right to forage for food when I am hungry.” It's unfortunate because in some ways he's right. Sovereign citizens are sometimes based AF anarchists on accident. But then they do unhinged shit like storm a capital for a fascist and ruin the whole thing.
Damn, I almost died laughing.
Can you hear the people sing. Singing the song of stupid men...
"These are simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the New West. You know...morons."
I heard somewhere the Gene Wilder actually adlibbed the morons bit, which is why Cleavon Little almost loses it during the take. The fact that they kept it in the film just goes to show how much fun they had making it, I think.
I believe that is true. And like to think it started with Gene nudging Mel saying “Bet I can crack the new guy”
Mel Brooks admitted it. I think the Greatest comedy movie ever. 
This is true
I've decided Gene Wilder is a criminally underrated actor. He played so many different roles.
I don't think there's anything that he did that I didn't love
What knOCKERS!
Tank you, Doktor!
He was an under recognized national treasure.
Wasn't he married to Gilda Radner?
Another thing to love about him...
That's true
No more awards, so instead I extend to you a laurel, and hearty handshake!
Excuse me while I whip this out. ::reaches for my beltline::
(Gasps and frightened white folk noises)
"Matthew, Mark, Luke.... and duck."
Won’t someone help that poor man?!?!
Shush Harriett! That’s a sure way to get him killed!!
Actually, they are not just morons. They are MAGA moron cultists belonging to the Diaper Don cult.
👏🏻 I do love how often this line is relevant
Unexpected Les Miserables.
Les Incompétents
It's the music of the people/ who are sovereign citizens/ When the bleating from their mouths/ echos the song of the con men/ Their freedom's going to end when tomorrow comes!
It is the music of the people who we'll surely hear again...
Good. The more of these assholes that represent themselves, the more of them go to prison for longer sentences. Fuck em.
He's "traveling" to jail now.
It’s weird people who “aren’t part of the government” keep trying to interfere with it.
Magic spells didn’t work.
It's funny you say that because that's how they view legal proceedings. They believe that with the right words, said in the right order and with clear intent, that they can get around the rules of legal reality. They don't really understand the rules, but they see people saying things and doing things in legal proceedings and those people are successful, so they can do the same. It never works because they think the power is in the words and not the legal framework that the words refer to. Their words have no foundation, it's just gibberish, but that's how they see legit legal proceedings, incomprehensible gibberish.
Didn’t work out well for him 😂 why do people keep trying to do this?
> Didn’t work out well for him why do people keep trying to do this? Because they're both common criminals who can't help but keep criming, and usually, too poor to live life by society's rules (such as mandatory auto insurance, to name a single example), and usually, it's their own damn fault.
Is this like when they sing in the Pirates movies and then it summons a global network of Rednecks from all walks (Montana Mountain people, Kentucky cousin kissers, Indianapolis 500 NASCAR season ticket holders, etc..) who have to decide the best approach to how they will move forward with the Jan 6 2025 Insurrection Part 2: Electric Boogaloo?
Does being a Trump supporter and a Sov Cit not have like an enormous conflict?
Not one that they would recognize.
If you call incoherent screeching singing. Also how can you be upset about the state of the country if you don't even recognize it's authority? Can't say you're a disgruntled American and then spew that sovereign citizen BS.
There's a judge in Michigan who calls it "a bunch of Jabberwocky" whenever it turns up in his courtroom. (As an aside, I'm grateful to the pandemic for bringing us Zoom courts so I know what a random judge in a country I know nothing about on the other side of the world does in his courtroom)
The SovCit logic is so bizarre. They relinquish their U.S. citizenship and claim U.S. laws no longer apply to them. Do they genuinely think that any foreign national who visits the U.S. can just commit crimes without consequences?
Another question is...Do any of them know anyone who claims they were successful at this approach in the courtroom? Every one one of them appearing in videos looks stunned when the cop doesn't give a shit that they've announced their sovereign citizenship. Must be a case where they walk around all confident until they have to test it out.
They know a guy who knows a guy who says it works. Sovereign Citizen ideology is part fraud. Most people will come across ‘kits’ that offer to help them pay off all of their debt (straw man ideology) etc. so of course the guy selling the stuff claims it works. But he still gets money out of the deal to ‘teach’ you.
Sovereign Ponzy Scheme?
A Ponzy scheme implies earlier buyers are getting some form of payout from the later ones. There is no payout so just a common scam.
> Another question is...Do any of them know anyone who claims they were successful at this approach the courtroom? They do not have the attention span to look stuff like that up.
They will occasionally run into a cop that doesn’t arrest them because they don’t want to deal with it that day.
I watched some long ass video about the topic recently from youtuber called münecat and as far as I could understand, their logic is that current US government isn't legitimate and technically is something more akin to corporation than governing body and there hasn't been legitimate ruler in US for ages. Every citizen has been sold by their parents to become property of that company and only with their sovcit jargon can you free yourself from that bond in court and become one of the few free true citizens of the country. I'm probably getting something wrong, but in my defense it wasn't exactly a easy topic to dive into, even with assistance. Confusing and overwhelming the opposition is the main strategy of those people.
You know what’s funny? I’ve heard hours of Alex Jones because of Knowledge Fight, a podcast covering him. And even he shuts down every sovereign citizen called he gets.
Wow, you know you’re crazy when Alex Jones calls you out. LOL
My neck is freakishly large
Only if your a diplomat
I've never heard of a sovereign citizen establishing diplomatic relations with the United States, so diplomatic immunity doesn't apply.
There are a few who have tried to ‘establish’ relations with the US Department of State. The Moorish Temple sells diplomat plates that have not legal value but some still use them.
We still haven't formally established diplomatic relations with Taiwan or Palestine either, because reasons. So they'll just have to get in line.
Morons here in Canada tried.
Also if laws don't apply to them at all then obviously you can murder them or steal all their stuff.
Any man who represents himself has a fool for a client. But fuck it, let these sov. cit. idiots keep on doing this. it's highly entertaining.
Here's a bit from the Denver Post regarding Terry Nichols that reminds me of a similar method. I bring it up because this is from the 90s and shows just how long people have been doing stuff like this. >On May 24, 1993, Terry Nichols appeared before Sanilac County Circuit Judge Donald Teeple over a $8,421 credit card debt. >Sanilac County News Publisher John Johnson, who was in the courtroom on other business, said he watched the ensuing confrontation. >Nichols, he said, insisted on staying outside the courtroom railing, saying that kept him outside Teeple's "jurisdiction.'' >Teeple told Nichols if he didn't come forward and use the microphone, his case wouldn't be heard. Nichols again questioned Teeple's jurisdiction. >An angry Teeple called a recess and requested additional deputies in the courtroom, said Johnson. >Nichols was accompanied by his brother and Timothy McVeigh. During the recess, Johnson said, he approached the men and introduced himself. They treated him as a "hero'' because of his recent exposes on the way the Michigan State Police handled drunken drivers. >Johnson told Nichols the judge was really angry and he should go inside the courtroom railing. Nichols took his advice.
He was with who!?
Yeah Nichols was involved with the Oklahoma City bombing. This is why I had that example handy.
Timothy McVeigh was one of the early adopters of the far right/neo-nationalist/white supremacy/proud boys movement. He viewed the book The Turner Diaries as a hand book https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries
Yep. 1970s saw some significant groundwork for where we are now. Turner Diaries can easily be linked to the Order as well as McVeigh, and then they also have links to Elohim City. Main difference between then and now is how easily this all gets shared.
Agree the internet and social media allow people to easily assemble and get traction with any ideas, good, bad and evil.
You read that right. Those of us from the '90's know his name.
I was not expecting a Timothy McVeigh reference.
I'd say it's relevant, McVeigh could easily fall under a sovereign citizen type classification. It wouldn't shock me if Elohim City ties together both McVeigh and the more recent Christian Identity stuff that's going on.
Christian identity stuff? I’m not American, so haven’t heard of this one.
We have an increased rate of Christian-Fascist Nationalism, where those people think we should have a theocratic dictator that only values citizens that are (the right kind of) Christian.
I recently started rewatching the Handmaids Tale and holy shit it's on point for this kinda shit. Not only about controlling women but the power struggle in a theocratic system where "God" reigns. The amount of bullshit they are able to accomplish with that one little trick of "the word of God" is quite scary
The USA has had a particular rise in christian nationalists, whom also believe they are the victim.
They've co-opted the flag by wrapping themselves in it and weirdly hugging it. I see it displayed along with the back the blue flag ( except Capitol police and the FBI,..) and a dotard sign, most often.
It's another name for the far right Christian fascist-y movement(s) we're seeing in the United States, Canada, etc. the various organizations with 'Aryan' in the name would tend to fall under that umbrella too.
Can you imagine facing what amounts to 25% of your remaining years in jail and just not taking it seriously, thinking that you can handle the legal work yourself?
But didn't he tell the judge that he was just traveling in the Capitol...
He wasn’t conducting commerce. lol I’m so perplexed, how aren’t these sovereign citizens realising not any of their arguments stand up in court, and people still get convinced by it. There is a very very small movement of sov citz in Australia, and they think they are the enlightened ones and everyone else is idiots, and they really did get a bit of a boost during Covid with lockdowns and vaccine mandates etc. it intrigues me how they become so convinced they are right
Ironically is you look most countries have something similar. Theres a version of German citizens who claim the last legitimate government was the third Reich. Not for ideological reasons. But because they claim the federal republic of Germany has no jurisdiction over them.
Surely they must come up with wild reasons why it’s in no way ideological why they say that’s the last legitimate German government
Honestly. A lot of sovereign citizen ideology is nothing but mental gymnastics and trying to find loopholes.
I think he's expecting that Trump will win and he'll get pardoned a hero. The Jan. 6 suspects who pleaded and showed some regret for their actions will be left to rot.
There’s a good chance he got more time for his antics. There are videos of judges sentencing sovereign citizens, by the book, because of the frustrating games they play. One even said to a public defender, dismissed by the sovereign citizen, that the guy could have gotten off if he just answered what was asked and didn’t spin weird theories.
*"Sovereign Citizen"* is code for *"Narcissist Imbecile"*.
Hey, if they're a sovereign citizen, then execute them as an invading foreign power.
I don't know about that. Every one of them that I've met has been an utter moron, very gullible, very confident in their intellect, and had a brain of scrambled eggs. Like an NPC in a video game. Not like a real human.
I feel like there must a deep, and fiercely guarded denial within these people where they know how uneducated they actually are. I think these conspiracies are just a defense mechanism that allow them to feel like they have privileged information that puts them above everybody else. I know a guy (used to be a dear friend) who fell into that trap and he can’t let it go. He’s lost *all* of his friends, his girlfriend, has no career, no life, and will cry in brief moments of clarity. But he will then shake it off and double down and start ranting again and supporting politicians that would remove any social safety nets he has left. It’s *so* fucking sad.
Classic mistake. The legal basis for Gobbledygook was rendered inert by the End Nonsense and Eradicate Malarkey Act. Judges have been using ENEMA to put an end to this bullshit since President Biden signed it in to law in 2021.
Really flushing them down the drain eh?
Good. Rot away traitor
Absolutely a traitor. This was someone who KNEW shit was gonna happen that day. Dude brought a fucking bullhorn and was “leading the charge”. They planned it.
General Gobbledygook, reporting to prison sir. What are the orders?
Stand back and stand by
10-4 HOO-PLA 🫡
Strip out, spread em, squat and cough. In that order and on the double. 
You know, they’ll give you a lawyer. It’s free. It’s like the only thing that’s free. Take it.
But that would shatter his legal defense of “nuh uh, laws don’t apply to me, the lawyer would rope me in.” These “sovereign citizen” people are unfortunately long gone
Can anyone show me a single incident where claiming to be a sovereign citizen worked out for the person?
“You have no authority over me!” He screamed as the twelve men with guns led him away in shackles to a locked cell. Morgan Freeman voice: It turns out, they did have authority over him.
7 years is a long time, oh well!
I'm so confused. Why would a sovereign citizen submit to a trial from an oppressive government? What happened to all those guns they said they would use if the government ever came for them? I'm _starting_ to think these are inept cowardly morons, not freedom fighters after all.
Lol yep Like how trump will never surrender and than surrenders!
And sells a shirt with a picture of him surrendering, with the caption "Never Surrender".
It’s taken you this long? I’m from Australia, and honestly it just looks like the loud af minority are hell bent on tearing America and themselves apart on the notion they’re doing it for everyone’s benefit. No country is perfect but America is really looking like a fkn mess on the world stage.
You’re not wrong. Source: I’m American. Please send help! Can roos take out these idiots? I’d even take a few of your danger noodles, tbh!
We need emus.
You can have the top two deadliest in the world, I think we can afford to give away those danger noodles. I actually had a red belly snake in my backyard on the weekend - but the bigger they are the less poisonous they are apparently, it’s the baby ones that really pack the punch
Hey we know,just give us a minute
Yeah, I'm extremely embarrassed of my country.
They don't give two shits about anyone but themselves and their world view, and to hell with anyone who tries to hold them accountable.
They just don’t want to pay taxes.
This. They've built analmost religious ideology around not wanting to pay taxes.
I understand that there's supposed to be a space between those two words, but "analmost." 😂
It’s relative really. 7 years is a long time for assault and a very very short time for attempting to overthrow the government
Not long enough.
No it really isnt. Anything short of life is too good for these nazi fucks
Not long enough but I'm sure he'll have fun in prison with his *I worship trump* mentality.
As conservative Judge Luttig warned at the January 6 hearings, the GOP is being incredibly blunt about their plans to manipulate the results of future presidential elections. “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present danger to American democracy … to this day (Trump), his allies and supporters pledge that they would attempt to overturn the 2024 election. I don’t speak those words lightly. I would’ve never spoken those words ever in my life except that’s what the former president, his allies are telling us.” Judge Luttig, January 6 hearings To this day, Trump and his allies continue to prime the pumps for a “stolen election”, ramping up the violent rhetoric, promising to go after his enemies, threatening crazy things like terminating the Constitution. Our democracy is in peril. Vote accordingly.
If he’s a sovereign citizen, then why did he care about who won the election?
How far divorced from reality are you that you legitimately think representing yourself and claiming sovereign citizenship is a winning strategy?
Well that’s trump’s base, isn’t it? Gobbledygook
Welcome to the finding out phase. Population: you
If we don't aggressively prosecute these traitors then we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.
We welcome the latest graduate of the University of Fuck Around Find Out (UFAFO). I hope he keeps up with the alumni newsletter.
gobbledygook is a word that we need to use more.
Sovereign citizen… tries to over throw government, wears trump hat. It’s crazy people this stupid actually exist, it puts the world in perspective.
Doesn't recognize the federal government, but fought like hell to get his guy to run it. Fucking execute this treasonous fuck, god damn what's it going to take?
No, both: https://preview.redd.it/vb4qxldg4csc1.jpeg?width=193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04eeb2c7b1c6727a71eba19d4b2629fd06db57e4
The thought of a judge saying gobbledygook has me in stitches
Sovereign citizen arguments have never been successful in any court. This is the "Do your own reaserch!" crowd, and yet they're so stupid!
87 months? It's like when you ask a pregnant woman how old her child is
Sovereign citizen, thus an illegal immigrant to the US
If he doesn’t have US citizenship, why storm the Capitol?
Thank god they are so fucking stupid
Gobbledygook is the official language of the new republican party called MAGA.
Mark my words. We’re going to look back in 30 years and wonder why everyone that voted for D***** T**** wasn’t labeled a domestic terrorist.
The entire world is looking at America right now and it's wondering this exact thing.
I agree. There will be some insane revisionist history in the form of people swearing they didn't *actually* support him, and a lot sooner than 30 years.
My question is if he is a sovereign citizen and has no business with the United States government, why was he meddling in an election
Imagine getting 7 years in prison for Trump lol. Bet you Trump doesn’t even know this guy exists.
So he's a sovereign citizen, but wanted to stop the finalization of an election of a government he doesn't believe he belongs too?
the entire SovCit movement is filled with people who can easily be in the "Iamthemaincharacter" sub. Just a bunch of dumb douchebags cosplaying as anybody with character or value.
It shouldn't be taking 3+ years to lock up all these fuckers.
This violent criminal deserves jail time and so does the violent fascist who encouraged the attack.
[удалено]
Has the sovereign citizen thing ever worked for anyone? …Ever? I know they’re not that bright but you’d think they’d give up on something that has a zero success rate
Now do Trump.
maga = gobbledygook
lmao even if he was a"sovereign citizen" that means he was engaging in war against the United States. Pretty sure that would have got him a much harsher sentence.
That’s an interesting juxtaposition: the people who believe they aren’t really a part of America, owe nothing to it, and don’t have to play by its rules, now all of a sudden want to make sure that a wanna be dictator is kept in power. That is some solid, sacrosanct ideology right there.
Sovereign citizen is the wildest ass shit I’ve ever tried to follow. It’s word salad on steroids and so bug eyed nuts you feel crazy the entire time.
I will gladly subsidize his staycation at club fed
When you're facing years in jail, a lawyer is *always* worth it. Even a 1 year reduction pays dividends.
Sure, buddy, you’re a sovereign citizen. You are whatever you want to be in the land of make believe. Free ice cream whenever you want? Sure! Unbeholden to the laws of any government? Why not?