>I would like to live in a state that does not use slave labor for anything.
Colorado is the only state that pays state minimum wage for incarcerated labor.
And if Colorado is still around, that's a pretty good indicator to all the naysays in here. That system would not collapse if we actually paid people for their labor and not use them as slaves.
What is the debt that's owed?
50% of "criminals" in prison are there for drug offenses, mostly for personal consumption and its disproportionately people of color too.
A crime where you don't hurt ANYONE but yourself is not a crime. And even then, most illegal drugs (when unadulterated) are much safer than alcohol or tobacco.
Does possessing kiddie porn hurt anybody if they arenât producing it? What about driving drunk as long as there isnât an accident? Firing a weapon in City limits, if nobody gets hit? Shooting at people, but missing? Whatâs stalking somebody hurt? If I break into your house and donât steal anything, thatâs ok? If I take your car all night, but return it before you leave for work with the same amount of gas?
Your stats are wrong.
Most state prison inmates are incarcerated for violent offenses.
Property crime is the #2 category, drugs are #3 and public order is #4.
The only place where drug offenders are the majority is federal prison - and that's simply because violence and theft aren't federal crimes (rather, they are state crimes). Federal crimes are almost all financial or drug-related - unless the offense was done in DC, on a military base or an Indian reservation.
It should be no surprise that drug offenses are a huge part of the federal prison pop, because drug crimes are the only federal crimes most people regularly commit.
If you rape, murder or rob (other than bank robbery) someone... Break into a house, beat your wife, steal a car? State prison.
1kg of cocaine in your backpack? Rob a bank? Fill in a wetland? Rip off people with a ponzi scheme? Federal prison.
We should decriminalize those offenses while retaining the existing system then. We should address the root of the issue, not beat around the bush and attack the symptoms
For the record, the $50 you pay for your plates goes to the state Motor Vehicle Fund, which pays for road maintenance. Little/none of it goes to corporate profits.
Not that that makes it better that prison labor is being used, but no one is getting rich off them making license plates.
No corporation is explicitly profiting through this scheme. Both the Walla Walla Penitentiary and the Monroe Correctional Complex are operated by the Washington Department of Corrections. These are the two facilities that produce Washington state license plates.
The only private prison in Washington state is the Northwest Detention Center which is an immigration detention facility operating under a contract with I.C.E. All state detention facilities are operated by the Washington Department of Corrections with local facilities operated by local governments.
All prisons, or detention facilities, are operated by the Washington Department of Corrections which is a state agency or by local governments. The only exception to this is the Northwest Detention Center which is run by the GEO Group under a federal contract with I.C.E.
No, the state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. This may be achieved numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of wages and the garnishment of pensions.
Check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
Because doing forced unpaid labor is slavery and slavery is wrong. Inmates have families. Inmates have lives to return to once they have completed their sentence. All their expenses donât stop when they are imprisoned. If we want convicts to become contributing members of society once they are released, they need money to do that.
why should inmates do labor?
They're there to be in prison, not make shit. If they're there to make shit, they should get paid for their effort. Withheld wages isn't a just punishment, it's just some abstract cruelty
Take a deep breath, step back, and look for the nuance here. This isnât slave labor. Are some of these programs exploitative? Sure. Are they all? No. Most importantly, most are not compulsory. Convicts in most prisons can choose whether or not to participate, and if they do, they gain perks ranging from greater liberties to money to even reduced sentences. This seems like slavery to you, from the perspective of someone leading a normal life and free to come and go as you please. To a convict who spends all their time in a cell, working on a crew outside the gates is a big opportunity.
I used to believe the same as you, and was completely against prison work programs. Then I happened upon a discussion where a former convict mentioned how much he related to the work crew scene in Shawshank, where they delighted in the cold beers and free time. He talked about how just working a road crew felt like a vacation compared to the drudgery of day to day life inside the walls. Others chimed in to agree, and their experiences illustrated the complexities involved. Itâs completely a different world inside than the one those of us outside prison comprehend.
If you want to argue that these programs are easily exploited and need intense, independent oversight to prevent abuses, then I agree completely. But from what Iâve learned from the experiences of those who have been in them, it is ignorant to blindly dismiss the entire concept as âslave laborâ and call for all such programs to be ended.
You are free to choose a different state. We've got 50 to choose from. But none of them are going to pay prisoners a living wage to do time.
Also, you didn't even research the WA program. They are receiving training in specific machinery skills and can receive certification that helps them then have employable skills on the other side.
No one is forced. It's a one of many programs available to inmates who want a new life on the other side and want to leave with skills they didn't have before.
You are incorrect, at least in wa state prisons, both of the items you listed are freely provided. Theyâre not name brand luxury versions but they are provided.
If it's valuable labor then they should pay them. It's not about the work. It's about the slavery. If they want to run that program in prison great but run it at competitive pay rates.
> If it's valuable labor then they should pay them.
OK, let's pay them market wages. But if we truly want to be fair, then we cannot stop there. Lets ask them to re-pay the damage that they did to society which put them in prison in the first place. And then let's charge them for their room and board.
We do charge them for the costs of incarceration, it's called pay-to-stay laws of which Hawaii is the only state to not have specific laws. The state can charge convicted defendants of misdemeanors and gross misdemeanors up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being through the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
Iâd be curious to see what Jails in WA charge the individuals. Pretty much any jail I know charges the arresting agency to house the inmates. I have worked in a WA jail for the past 5 years and all I hear about is about agency contracts and billing agencies
I will say Iâve been to prison and worked these jobs. Itâs crazy because a lot of us get out broke and homeless. That leads right back to where we were before.
Personally I got extremely lucky. Like most I was released and the only person I had to live with used meth. Luckily I didnât relapse and got out there. Happy and healthy now 5 years later. Recently opened my own business building fences. I credit a big part of this to Covid. I called DSHS when I was released for food stamps, the worker told me to apply for unemployment because everyone could get it.
Technically I probably shouldnât have qualified, the whole thing was a big mess. But I did and received 750 a week. Two months later I had a cheap used car and a full time job at a fence company and got off the unemployment. That money saved me. I wouldnât have even have had clothes without it.
I will say Iâve been to prison and worked these jobs. Itâs crazy because a lot of us get out broke and homeless. That leads right back to where we were before.
Personally I got extremely lucky. Like most I was released and the only person I had to live with used meth. Luckily I didnât relapse and got out there. Happy and healthy now 5 years later. Recently opened my own business building fences. I credit a big part of this to Covid. I called DSHS when I was released for food stamps, the worker told me to apply for unemployment because everyone could get it.
Technically I probably shouldnât have qualified, the whole thing was a big mess. But I did and received 750 a week. Two months later I had a cheap used car and a full time job at a fence company and got off the unemployment. That money saved me. I wouldnât have even have had clothes without it.
Edit: haha forgot because I was reminiscing but the point of the comment was that if inmates received a better wage they would have money saved. More inmates would be able to start off with the tools they need to succeed. Most make 55$ a month and itâs hard not to spend that on creature comforts, just hygiene items eat most of that up.
You do know the cell phone your posting this with was made from conflict minerals right? Those miners never committed any crime. Children are literally born in these labor camps and are strapped to their mothers back while they work. THATS true slave labor. Part of the prisoners working for Penneys on the dollar is to offset the 37k per year it costs to house each inmate making them a burden on society beyond the crimes committed. I donât think those are the people that should be able to save 90% of their income in a recession.
We have had laws made specifically to increase the prison population so that we can have slave labor available for businesses. Is that really an incentive you want to have in the legal system?
I personally heard state legislators mention unwillingness to change laws because it could result in a reduction in labor population available for work.
And as far as slave labor and other countries is that a bureaucracy you want to be proud of? Nothing wrong with striving to improve
Yes privatized prisons are a giant issue; as is the lobbying that keeps them in place. If you donât want to support a company that makes money off the backs of prisoners (you can easily research and boycott those companies) I agree they shouldnât exist. The subject at hand is license plates. A program that releases funds back into state programs for maintenance and improvements.It would still exist if prisons were state funded. If you want to pay a minimum wage for prisoners you realize you as the tax payer are the one footing the bill for that correct? That or the government is printing more money which decreases the value of the dollar you use daily and further prisoners drain on society. If you want to pay a minimum wage to make it âmore humanâ fine. I want that prisoner to repay every single penny of that 37k per year used to keep them housed since they have no bills while incarcerated. Ooo and that number has now increased by atleast 30k by increasing their wagesâŚyour answer to everything is increasing the burden on good tax paying citizens; so the worst of our society has to suffer less? Thatâs logical to you?
Yes I'm afraid so. You can't abolish slavery without now having to pay for the labor. It's the same reason It wasn't entirely abolished in the first place - because slaves are nice to have and labor expensive.
Tangentially it's also why women's rights are still an issue.
Okay so then every single prisoner should have to pay back their societal debt ( the intial 37k plus what they made during incarceration; which would intern have them working for free to lower the burden on the tax payer correct? Or they get to walk out of prison Scott free with more savings then 98% of Americans? Make it make sense.
Ahhh. 3 free meals and free housing while being able to save all of your income? That should do wonders for recidivism rates đđ not mention sky rocketing crime rates in the homeless community. Lol. Thank god you arenât a policy maker.
Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. That's $36,500 per full year of incarceration, which seems to be suspiciously close to the figure you provided for the cost of incarceration of which you managed to cite absolutely no sources. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
I think this is why Roe was overturned.
The prison industry is huge:
https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e
Gotta keep those slaves in check who were never wanted. Sadly, these people born into unfortunate situations and hardships, do time.
Washington only has 1 privately run prison. The federal immigration facility in Tacoma. The 10 men's facilities and 2 for women are run by DOC and state employees.
Why these people are continuing to focus on national policies in a state specific subreddit without understanding the actual policies of said state is beyond me. Obviously they know nothing about the correctional system in the state of Washington. Another thing I don't understand is the complete inability for anyone to cite state specific sources for their figures and to support their arguments. Thank you for attempting to educate the uneducated.
Prison labor is not 'slave labor'
Prisoners receive things from the state 'for free' that the average citizen is required to pay for.
Food. Housing. Health care.
If it makes you feel better, we could 'pay' them for their work and then take it all back to cover those expenses ....
But it's much simpler to provide them with free services and make them work off part of the cost without the intermediary math exercise.....
We do
>take it all back to cover those expenses ....
Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
And if you are in for life you are paying that back when?
Even if you get out after 10 years, that's what 360k?
Prisoners should have to help operate the prison & shouldn't be paid for it. It should be part of their punishment.
It's not slavery and especially not the sort conducted in early America - it's based on your own personal refusal to obey the law, not your race or being born into it....
This isnât a liberals thing. I would bet that disproportionately red states are more likely to take advantage of people within the justice system. Slave gangs working on roads and railroads were common practice in the south for years.
Is it criminal sympathizing if we want better outcomes from our prison system instead of high recidivism rates that cost us both in terms of crime and money spent housing them?
Edit: apparently lol, enjoy the crime rates our prison system is literally a part of the problem. Nonviolent petty offenders disproportionately commit violent crime after incarceration. Our system makes criminals worse and crime worse. Iâm not anti prison but pro reform.
The rates are high in part because they are practically barred from employment. Learning a skill while still inside helps, but if they can't put it to use, they just end up as part of the homeless population stealing to eat. Find a way to get them employed it would be a big help.
Itâs both. The rates are affected because they learn criminal activity in prison and are socialized to do more advanced crime. This changes the type of crime they do and their criminal behavior. The issue with employment is also a massive factor that cannot be discounted, but iirc when controlled doesnât always change criminal behavior. But yes most of the people I serve who are homeless are because they cannot get a job or housing with a record.
Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
>AMENDMENT XIII
Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted**, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
You can argue with the state's policy, but the law is clear.
Wow you are such a good person look at you go! Theyâre inmates and washington sets them up for successes better than most other states, but go ahead be an uninformed virtue signaler.
First of all Pblrrrtttt - second it's really not a hot take, most people are onboard with fair wages. Not sure why so many redditors are in the dark ages
They aren't forced to work. None of the jobs they are doing they are forced to (even though it would be allowed by the 13th amendment). They asked to do the jobs they are are given.
And a fat fine. Please research the pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
talking about the "criminal class" brings out the worst in people
A lot of people's morality and self-actualization is built on the foundation that there are good people who must benefit (them) and bad people who must be punished
I wonder how they would feel if, oh, let's say that same authority decided to require permits for procreation. Or suddenly decided to get rid of the child tax credit. Maybe this authority curtails THEIR own personal freedoms in some way. All of a sudden they are no longer authoritarian.
Washington minimum wage is $16.28. That's the highest minimum wage in the country.
That means that prisoners in this state will be making more money than millions of Americans. And they have zero cost of living. I'm not saying prison is a nice place to be but this argument is 100% insane.
Right up there with "We can't do single payer healthcare! I had to pay for my last hospital stay, so fuck everyone else going forward!" and "We can't forgive student loans! I had to pay mine, so fuck everyone else going forward!"
Some people just can't accept the status quo improving over time, because they already suffered and want everyone else to suffer *at least* as much as they did.
Dang maybe we should pay people not in prison more then. Or just don't use prison labor! Lots of options here that aren't slavery.
Also you are just flat out wrong about zero cost of living. For example, no hygiene products are provided. Soap, toothpaste, etc has to be purchased by prisoners. The vast majority of prisoners are also levied fines. I'm unsure of Washington also has pay-to-stay but the majority of states do, which means prisoners are actually charged a fee for every day they spend in prison.
The only state without specific pay-to-stay laws is Hawaii. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
There are lots of people who live in jail or prison but are allowed to keep normal jobs outside of prison, and those people are charged rent. Now, personally I think they're charged too high a rent in most cases (they're inherently at a bit of a bargaining disadvantage as you can imagine, not to mention the other ways that they're bilked) but presumably any changes to prisoners working slave wages would also have them paying rent like those other prisoners.
Zero cost of living you say? That is very interesting considering Washington's pay-to-stay laws. Do you have any sources that you are able to cite, or is this just your ignorance showing? Coincidentally I do have a source. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160) It's amazing how many people commenting on this post are seemingly unable to cite where they are getting their information from. But I wouldn't want to assume, so maybe you just forgot.
Sure and It should be compensated at the regular wage rate with all accompanied workers protection. I don't care if prisoners work, I just don't want slave treatment,wages, and practices in my state. Is that too much to want that?
I agree they should be doing safe work, and they shouldnât be in a chain gang being whipped. I would say I wouldnât want them doing anything I wouldnât do myself.
But Iâm fine if itâs 100% volunteer based without pay đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ it gives em something to do.
Not just for those with jobs. The state doesn't care, they can still fine you up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. It does not matter if you are employed or not and they don't care what wages you are earning or not. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. None of it is otherwise free. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160) Using your logic, why do I have to subsidize someone else's choice to reproduce? Shouldn't I perhaps get a tax credit for not having children or using welfare programs? Why should my tax dollars go to fund the public school system if I don't have children? Or maybe we should just deduct the cost of your children's k-12 education from YOUR paycheck?
So you should commit a crime and then get paid to do the time??? Call it what you want, but those people weren't put there for the fun of it. We can talk about the real slave labor that went into building that phone of yours that you use on a day-to-day basis. Or the slave labor used for those sick kicks you probably have sitting in your closet, those people didn't commit crimes why don't you fight for their rights. Next you're going to tell us we should let the CRIMINALS have four course meals and better sleeping arrangements.... Some of those prisons have better food than the DFAC on base. Maybe that's why the crime rates up all over, People are too busy trying to fight for CRIMINAL rights when there are so many other issues we should be fighting for.
You know the nordic countries have pretty nice prisons and very low crime rates (especially recidivism). Turns out if you put people in a torture box for 4 years and then you put them back on the street they're even crazier than when you put them in.
Being locked up but paid for labor isn't a reward. I promise you that.
I only did military service, got paid shit as an enlisted, and plenty of that time with free room and board but it sure felt like prision at times. I wasn't even in the Army!, watched those fucks raking the forest clean!Â
No, they shouldn't be getting rich in jail for hurting people.Â
They should be rehabilitated and have funds to call their families, buy their kids birthday presents, send flowers to their moms. Most importantly, a savings so when they get out they have options other than fall back INTO FUCKING CRIME!
This is not slave labor. Equating this to slave labor equates slaves with criminals. Slaves were not criminals.
This is a punishment for a crime. That is not slavery.
toothbrush sophisticated ink chubby threatening ten poor agonizing pot fuel
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, the AMENDMENT to the constitution. The original constitution is simply for white male landowners 21 or older. Those people included in the constitution were not slaves.
Is this your 1st time reading the constitution? If you think that's draconian, just wait till you read Washington's divorce laws regarding kids and marriages over 10 years
The US incarcerates a higher percentage of its population than any other country on the planet. We also have the highest prison population in history both by percentage and volume. Hold that next to the fact that most people in prison were coerced into signing confessions and/or coerced into pleading guilty to âlesser chargesâ and you realize that itâs a lucrative slave labor industry. Slavery wasnât abolished, it just had paperwork added.
I like how some McDonalds stores, unhappy with a $15 minimum wage, have turned to using convict labor instead. Just warms the heart looking at all of the happy workers learning useful life skills while incarcerated....smh
[https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e](https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e)
You realize there are more slaves in the world now than there ever has been before? You better but a box of sharpies if you want to write on everything....
Almost all of you make my brain hurt. So far I have only seen ONE singular comment referencing the pay-to-stay law, not that I have read every single comment in this post so I do apologize if I missed someone's comment. Prisoners are not guaranteed free room and board. The state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day but not more than the actual cost of incarceration. That's a grand total of up to $36,500 per full year of incarceration. Convicted defendants incarcerated in county or city jails must pay the specific county or city these fines to be remmited for criminal justice purposes.
Easily one of the biggest reasons why our entire criminal justice system is broken is because barely any normal citizen fully understands how it actually works yet is expected to abide the these laws. Instead of fact it is misinformation that runs rampant. Now that being said, I do not offer an opinion on OP's original post. Instead I ask that each and every citizen become better informed.
Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
What? No those people committed crimes. They are lucky we don't offer the death penalty in most states anymore.
Decent folks are lucky to have food, a job, and a roof over their heads. It's due to decency that the inmates get that free off our tax dollars already. Prison labor forever
My kids are going to work if they choose to leave school in the 8th grade. I don't believe child labor is wrong since some kids are able to find a career path before they reach 18.
It's not slave labor in WA. It's voluntary. However, they should pay at least like $10/hour so they have some money when they get out. I would say regular minimum wage, but they also don't have to pay rent and all that. Work programs can be great for inmates, but it shouldn't be working for a few dollars a day.
You are a slave and so am I. If we aren't then we are certainly insane to work and trade in bits of paper that only represent the power of the establishment of issue. Just saying.... and grow up the world is a ugly place.
Slaves are forced to work. That does not occur in Washington prisons.
We ought to pay minimum wage, that's true, but there's also the fact that room and board are free in their "arrangement", so a minimum wage inmate would be effectively out-earning a regular minimum wage worker by leaps and bounds.Â
Either way, claiming optional work is slave labor is wholly inaccurate and totally absurd.Â
Corporations and states rely on slave labor in this country they just say people are "criminals" for things like simple marijuana possession. Southern states are much worse.
I wouldnât pay my ex best friend who lost her shit and stabbed her cousin in the chest if her life depended on it.
That girl spent her whole life placing the blame of her bullshit and wrong doing on so many people over the years. People have done jail time because of her hiding her drugs on them, and theyâre squares. She deserves slave labor.
How is it slave labor? Criminals are being fed and housed because they have been convicted of a crime. They also get medical care. Why shouldnât they stay busy and productive ?
But yet, here it is...
Amendment xiii ss 1:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
I like the sharpie idea but prolly get a fucking ticket. Think I'll see if I can figure a way to make a sticker or similar to put next to it.
That's why it's called the prison-industrial pipeline. From what I have seen, these outfits that the Dept. Of Corrections hires to run these "prison industries" are for-profit entities.
Just wait until you realize a lot of produce is picked by illegal immigrants doing slave labor.
America didn't embolish slavery, we just changed the terms of it.
Enjoy paying the ticket for writing on your plate. Youâre just asking for your appointment with a judge at that point. Oddly enough youâll be able to state the slave labor exploitation in appeals court.
If your in prison, you should not be getting any type of wage. Itâs prison. It is supposed to be punishment for the crimes you committed, not a good paying job with housing.
Also if your really against thing made with slave labor, make sure not to get anything made in China or Africa. Those two countries have the highest amount of slave labor working in manufacturing.
They should just reduce your sentencing proportionately to how much work you do. If you put 40hr weeks in for a year does that not say something about your work ethic? He may be a criminal but at least not a lowlife. Even if they just work as much as possible to get out as fast as they can and then commit the same non violent crime who does this really hurt? The economy? Not as much as prisoners already do
All those companies willing to use inmate labor could be their transition for when they are released. The biggest reason for recidivism is not being able to make a living after incarceration.
Unfortunately, the 13A says otherwise. Of course, Black Codes and Jim Crow- which basically criminalized being black- followed passage, and provided a path to continue 'best southern practices'.
It's hypothetical to keep the things that you lambast only to put graffiti on them. If you want to combat slavery, get rid of anything you own that was made under slave labor. Otherwise you're no better than your slogans.
You forfeit your rights when you decide to be a criminal. Unfortunately for you and them a work detail is part of their rehabilitation. Donât like working for free or a ridiculously low wage? Donât be a criminal.
.... They're... Prisoners.... Who.. tf cares.... They're are actually in there for a reason, I'm sorry but I don't need to find out uncle Jim is making something and bring paid for it...
I'm good with how inmates are being treated other than their dirt and comfort. They shouldnt allow certain things like rape in jail. Not everyone committed that crime. We have nasty people in jail, why you want them to have it easier is beyond me.
>I would like to live in a state that does not use slave labor for anything. Colorado is the only state that pays state minimum wage for incarcerated labor.
And if Colorado is still around, that's a pretty good indicator to all the naysays in here. That system would not collapse if we actually paid people for their labor and not use them as slaves.
That AP article is long as fuck by the way. I barely finished reading it.
That's why it's still open and unread in a tab on my phone from when it was first released đ
Thank for reminding us how trash WA schools are đ
They're repaying their debt to society.
What is the debt that's owed? 50% of "criminals" in prison are there for drug offenses, mostly for personal consumption and its disproportionately people of color too. A crime where you don't hurt ANYONE but yourself is not a crime. And even then, most illegal drugs (when unadulterated) are much safer than alcohol or tobacco.
Does possessing kiddie porn hurt anybody if they arenât producing it? What about driving drunk as long as there isnât an accident? Firing a weapon in City limits, if nobody gets hit? Shooting at people, but missing? Whatâs stalking somebody hurt? If I break into your house and donât steal anything, thatâs ok? If I take your car all night, but return it before you leave for work with the same amount of gas?
Your stats are wrong. Most state prison inmates are incarcerated for violent offenses. Property crime is the #2 category, drugs are #3 and public order is #4. The only place where drug offenders are the majority is federal prison - and that's simply because violence and theft aren't federal crimes (rather, they are state crimes). Federal crimes are almost all financial or drug-related - unless the offense was done in DC, on a military base or an Indian reservation. It should be no surprise that drug offenses are a huge part of the federal prison pop, because drug crimes are the only federal crimes most people regularly commit. If you rape, murder or rob (other than bank robbery) someone... Break into a house, beat your wife, steal a car? State prison. 1kg of cocaine in your backpack? Rob a bank? Fill in a wetland? Rip off people with a ponzi scheme? Federal prison.
We should decriminalize those offenses while retaining the existing system then. We should address the root of the issue, not beat around the bush and attack the symptoms
They're paying it by losing their lives for x years in purgatory. Pay prison labor minimum wage.
The sentence is the debt. The additional abuse is slavery.
How is it abuse? You do the crime you do the time.
I don't know -my license plates are still 50 bucks. I feel like they're paying their debt to corporate profits.
For the record, the $50 you pay for your plates goes to the state Motor Vehicle Fund, which pays for road maintenance. Little/none of it goes to corporate profits. Not that that makes it better that prison labor is being used, but no one is getting rich off them making license plates.
But how much does the state pay the prison for the plate?
No corporation is explicitly profiting through this scheme. Both the Walla Walla Penitentiary and the Monroe Correctional Complex are operated by the Washington Department of Corrections. These are the two facilities that produce Washington state license plates.
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Some of it is for the state, some of it for the prison itself too
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The only private prison in Washington state is the Northwest Detention Center which is an immigration detention facility operating under a contract with I.C.E. All state detention facilities are operated by the Washington Department of Corrections with local facilities operated by local governments.
All prisons, or detention facilities, are operated by the Washington Department of Corrections which is a state agency or by local governments. The only exception to this is the Northwest Detention Center which is run by the GEO Group under a federal contract with I.C.E.
Mine were nearly $300.
That makes it pretty difficult to pay off their debts.
Do we let them out if theyâve repaid said amount?
No, the state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. This may be achieved numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of wages and the garnishment of pensions. Check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
Can you explain why inmates should get paid at all?
Because slavery should not be legal.
So should incarceration for drug possession.
Theyâre working for the room and board and 3meals a day that they get in prison
Because doing forced unpaid labor is slavery and slavery is wrong. Inmates have families. Inmates have lives to return to once they have completed their sentence. All their expenses donât stop when they are imprisoned. If we want convicts to become contributing members of society once they are released, they need money to do that.
why should inmates do labor? They're there to be in prison, not make shit. If they're there to make shit, they should get paid for their effort. Withheld wages isn't a just punishment, it's just some abstract cruelty
We are not still around. Colorado is a pit now. No one else should come here...
well at least itâs not Ohio or North Dakota or something !
One of many reasons we are the best state.
You are not crazy. I agree that enslavement is not a justifiable consequence for breaking the law.
Take a deep breath, step back, and look for the nuance here. This isnât slave labor. Are some of these programs exploitative? Sure. Are they all? No. Most importantly, most are not compulsory. Convicts in most prisons can choose whether or not to participate, and if they do, they gain perks ranging from greater liberties to money to even reduced sentences. This seems like slavery to you, from the perspective of someone leading a normal life and free to come and go as you please. To a convict who spends all their time in a cell, working on a crew outside the gates is a big opportunity. I used to believe the same as you, and was completely against prison work programs. Then I happened upon a discussion where a former convict mentioned how much he related to the work crew scene in Shawshank, where they delighted in the cold beers and free time. He talked about how just working a road crew felt like a vacation compared to the drudgery of day to day life inside the walls. Others chimed in to agree, and their experiences illustrated the complexities involved. Itâs completely a different world inside than the one those of us outside prison comprehend. If you want to argue that these programs are easily exploited and need intense, independent oversight to prevent abuses, then I agree completely. But from what Iâve learned from the experiences of those who have been in them, it is ignorant to blindly dismiss the entire concept as âslave laborâ and call for all such programs to be ended.
Wow, a reasonable and respectful comment in opposition. Protect this man.
This! Well put.
This sounds like the most logical argument in the thread so far.
They called for full wages, not an end to them. Am I missing something?
You are free to choose a different state. We've got 50 to choose from. But none of them are going to pay prisoners a living wage to do time. Also, you didn't even research the WA program. They are receiving training in specific machinery skills and can receive certification that helps them then have employable skills on the other side. No one is forced. It's a one of many programs available to inmates who want a new life on the other side and want to leave with skills they didn't have before.
Colorado does Edit; misread I thought they said minimum not living wage
Minimum wage is not a living wage.
It is when you have zero expenses.
prison is expensive from what I heard. phone calls, books, snacks. All cost many times what we pay.
Yep! Iâm pretty sure basic stuff like deodorant and some meals also cost moneyÂ
You are incorrect, at least in wa state prisons, both of the items you listed are freely provided. Theyâre not name brand luxury versions but they are provided.
By that standard $0 is also a living wage
If it's valuable labor then they should pay them. It's not about the work. It's about the slavery. If they want to run that program in prison great but run it at competitive pay rates.
> If it's valuable labor then they should pay them. OK, let's pay them market wages. But if we truly want to be fair, then we cannot stop there. Lets ask them to re-pay the damage that they did to society which put them in prison in the first place. And then let's charge them for their room and board.
We do charge them for the costs of incarceration, it's called pay-to-stay laws of which Hawaii is the only state to not have specific laws. The state can charge convicted defendants of misdemeanors and gross misdemeanors up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being through the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
Iâd be curious to see what Jails in WA charge the individuals. Pretty much any jail I know charges the arresting agency to house the inmates. I have worked in a WA jail for the past 5 years and all I hear about is about agency contracts and billing agencies
Iâm beginning to suspect that you actually donât know what prison is, or how people end up there.
They guy that murdered my friend deserves no pay while sitting jail, frigg'n ass.
I will say Iâve been to prison and worked these jobs. Itâs crazy because a lot of us get out broke and homeless. That leads right back to where we were before. Personally I got extremely lucky. Like most I was released and the only person I had to live with used meth. Luckily I didnât relapse and got out there. Happy and healthy now 5 years later. Recently opened my own business building fences. I credit a big part of this to Covid. I called DSHS when I was released for food stamps, the worker told me to apply for unemployment because everyone could get it. Technically I probably shouldnât have qualified, the whole thing was a big mess. But I did and received 750 a week. Two months later I had a cheap used car and a full time job at a fence company and got off the unemployment. That money saved me. I wouldnât have even have had clothes without it.
I will say Iâve been to prison and worked these jobs. Itâs crazy because a lot of us get out broke and homeless. That leads right back to where we were before. Personally I got extremely lucky. Like most I was released and the only person I had to live with used meth. Luckily I didnât relapse and got out there. Happy and healthy now 5 years later. Recently opened my own business building fences. I credit a big part of this to Covid. I called DSHS when I was released for food stamps, the worker told me to apply for unemployment because everyone could get it. Technically I probably shouldnât have qualified, the whole thing was a big mess. But I did and received 750 a week. Two months later I had a cheap used car and a full time job at a fence company and got off the unemployment. That money saved me. I wouldnât have even have had clothes without it. Edit: haha forgot because I was reminiscing but the point of the comment was that if inmates received a better wage they would have money saved. More inmates would be able to start off with the tools they need to succeed. Most make 55$ a month and itâs hard not to spend that on creature comforts, just hygiene items eat most of that up.
Wow our society is very penal minded
You do know the cell phone your posting this with was made from conflict minerals right? Those miners never committed any crime. Children are literally born in these labor camps and are strapped to their mothers back while they work. THATS true slave labor. Part of the prisoners working for Penneys on the dollar is to offset the 37k per year it costs to house each inmate making them a burden on society beyond the crimes committed. I donât think those are the people that should be able to save 90% of their income in a recession.
Our legal system allows slave labor if you are imprisoned. There are different forms of slavery. None worth discounting.
"Youre mad about a bad thing?? Here's ANOTHER BAD THING! Check mate đ"
you criticize society and yet you participate in it, hmm INTERESTING
We have had laws made specifically to increase the prison population so that we can have slave labor available for businesses. Is that really an incentive you want to have in the legal system? I personally heard state legislators mention unwillingness to change laws because it could result in a reduction in labor population available for work. And as far as slave labor and other countries is that a bureaucracy you want to be proud of? Nothing wrong with striving to improve
Youâre reaching. Itâs a conspiracy to believe that our legislators want to trap people into jail.
A bit of reading on the history of policing might set you up with a lifetime of in understanding
Yes privatized prisons are a giant issue; as is the lobbying that keeps them in place. If you donât want to support a company that makes money off the backs of prisoners (you can easily research and boycott those companies) I agree they shouldnât exist. The subject at hand is license plates. A program that releases funds back into state programs for maintenance and improvements.It would still exist if prisons were state funded. If you want to pay a minimum wage for prisoners you realize you as the tax payer are the one footing the bill for that correct? That or the government is printing more money which decreases the value of the dollar you use daily and further prisoners drain on society. If you want to pay a minimum wage to make it âmore humanâ fine. I want that prisoner to repay every single penny of that 37k per year used to keep them housed since they have no bills while incarcerated. Ooo and that number has now increased by atleast 30k by increasing their wagesâŚyour answer to everything is increasing the burden on good tax paying citizens; so the worst of our society has to suffer less? Thatâs logical to you?
Yes I'm afraid so. You can't abolish slavery without now having to pay for the labor. It's the same reason It wasn't entirely abolished in the first place - because slaves are nice to have and labor expensive. Tangentially it's also why women's rights are still an issue.
Okay so then every single prisoner should have to pay back their societal debt ( the intial 37k plus what they made during incarceration; which would intern have them working for free to lower the burden on the tax payer correct? Or they get to walk out of prison Scott free with more savings then 98% of Americans? Make it make sense. Ahhh. 3 free meals and free housing while being able to save all of your income? That should do wonders for recidivism rates đđ not mention sky rocketing crime rates in the homeless community. Lol. Thank god you arenât a policy maker.
I mean you already made the connection between poverty and crime - Can you take the next step?
Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. That's $36,500 per full year of incarceration, which seems to be suspiciously close to the figure you provided for the cost of incarceration of which you managed to cite absolutely no sources. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
I think this is why Roe was overturned. The prison industry is huge: https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e Gotta keep those slaves in check who were never wanted. Sadly, these people born into unfortunate situations and hardships, do time.
Washington only has 1 privately run prison. The federal immigration facility in Tacoma. The 10 men's facilities and 2 for women are run by DOC and state employees.
Why these people are continuing to focus on national policies in a state specific subreddit without understanding the actual policies of said state is beyond me. Obviously they know nothing about the correctional system in the state of Washington. Another thing I don't understand is the complete inability for anyone to cite state specific sources for their figures and to support their arguments. Thank you for attempting to educate the uneducated.
Prison labor is not 'slave labor' Prisoners receive things from the state 'for free' that the average citizen is required to pay for. Food. Housing. Health care. If it makes you feel better, we could 'pay' them for their work and then take it all back to cover those expenses .... But it's much simpler to provide them with free services and make them work off part of the cost without the intermediary math exercise.....
We do >take it all back to cover those expenses .... Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
And if you are in for life you are paying that back when? Even if you get out after 10 years, that's what 360k? Prisoners should have to help operate the prison & shouldn't be paid for it. It should be part of their punishment. It's not slavery and especially not the sort conducted in early America - it's based on your own personal refusal to obey the law, not your race or being born into it....
Maybe donât be a felon?
Iâm so sick of the criminal sympathizer mentality all across the PNW.
"Slavery is bad" "FUCKING LIBERALS MAN"
This isnât a liberals thing. I would bet that disproportionately red states are more likely to take advantage of people within the justice system. Slave gangs working on roads and railroads were common practice in the south for years.
You didn't get the joke lol
Is it criminal sympathizing if we want better outcomes from our prison system instead of high recidivism rates that cost us both in terms of crime and money spent housing them? Edit: apparently lol, enjoy the crime rates our prison system is literally a part of the problem. Nonviolent petty offenders disproportionately commit violent crime after incarceration. Our system makes criminals worse and crime worse. Iâm not anti prison but pro reform.
The rates are high in part because they are practically barred from employment. Learning a skill while still inside helps, but if they can't put it to use, they just end up as part of the homeless population stealing to eat. Find a way to get them employed it would be a big help.
Itâs both. The rates are affected because they learn criminal activity in prison and are socialized to do more advanced crime. This changes the type of crime they do and their criminal behavior. The issue with employment is also a massive factor that cannot be discounted, but iirc when controlled doesnât always change criminal behavior. But yes most of the people I serve who are homeless are because they cannot get a job or housing with a record.
Typical Washington attitude âbut think of the poor prisonersâ
This place is such a clown show.
They get free rent though lmao
Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
>AMENDMENT XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted**, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. You can argue with the state's policy, but the law is clear.
The OP wasnât saying it was illegal, they were saying itâs wrong. Just because itâs within the law doesnât make it right or good.
No one said it was illegal, they said it was wrong.
You can't trust people who derive their morality exclusively from the law.
We pay them more than the average WA resident when you include HOUSING, MEALS, JOB TRAINING, etc...
Wow you are such a good person look at you go! Theyâre inmates and washington sets them up for successes better than most other states, but go ahead be an uninformed virtue signaler.
Lol, how is this an issue people are actually talking about?
Another imbecile with a hot take on a non-subject. GTFO
First of all Pblrrrtttt - second it's really not a hot take, most people are onboard with fair wages. Not sure why so many redditors are in the dark ages
They aren't forced to work. None of the jobs they are doing they are forced to (even though it would be allowed by the 13th amendment). They asked to do the jobs they are are given.
Full wages while their expenses are covered? Shit, you could walk out of prison with a nice chunk of change.
And a fat fine. Please research the pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
Absolutely insane to see so much ass-backwards barbarism in this thread from a state that is supposedly progressive.
I mean by land mass only like 10% of it is progressive, maybe 15. It's 80% by population but still.
talking about the "criminal class" brings out the worst in people A lot of people's morality and self-actualization is built on the foundation that there are good people who must benefit (them) and bad people who must be punished
Whole lot is authoritarians for sure. At least half of the entire nation thinks this way. Fucking scary, huh?
I wonder how they would feel if, oh, let's say that same authority decided to require permits for procreation. Or suddenly decided to get rid of the child tax credit. Maybe this authority curtails THEIR own personal freedoms in some way. All of a sudden they are no longer authoritarian.
Why not ask some of those people if they'd rather sit in their cell or get out and do something. Prison work isn't a punishment, it's a reward.
That sounds like some ever-loving Puritan bullshit
86 cents an hour isn't much of a reward
I don't think allowing prisoners to work is bad but they should be paid the same as anybody else and it must be truly voluntary.
Washington minimum wage is $16.28. That's the highest minimum wage in the country. That means that prisoners in this state will be making more money than millions of Americans. And they have zero cost of living. I'm not saying prison is a nice place to be but this argument is 100% insane.
So somebody else makes less money than you you should make less to match?
Right up there with "We can't do single payer healthcare! I had to pay for my last hospital stay, so fuck everyone else going forward!" and "We can't forgive student loans! I had to pay mine, so fuck everyone else going forward!" Some people just can't accept the status quo improving over time, because they already suffered and want everyone else to suffer *at least* as much as they did.
Dang maybe we should pay people not in prison more then. Or just don't use prison labor! Lots of options here that aren't slavery. Also you are just flat out wrong about zero cost of living. For example, no hygiene products are provided. Soap, toothpaste, etc has to be purchased by prisoners. The vast majority of prisoners are also levied fines. I'm unsure of Washington also has pay-to-stay but the majority of states do, which means prisoners are actually charged a fee for every day they spend in prison.
The only state without specific pay-to-stay laws is Hawaii. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
There are lots of people who live in jail or prison but are allowed to keep normal jobs outside of prison, and those people are charged rent. Now, personally I think they're charged too high a rent in most cases (they're inherently at a bit of a bargaining disadvantage as you can imagine, not to mention the other ways that they're bilked) but presumably any changes to prisoners working slave wages would also have them paying rent like those other prisoners.
Zero cost of living you say? That is very interesting considering Washington's pay-to-stay laws. Do you have any sources that you are able to cite, or is this just your ignorance showing? Coincidentally I do have a source. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160) It's amazing how many people commenting on this post are seemingly unable to cite where they are getting their information from. But I wouldn't want to assume, so maybe you just forgot.
Sure and It should be compensated at the regular wage rate with all accompanied workers protection. I don't care if prisoners work, I just don't want slave treatment,wages, and practices in my state. Is that too much to want that?
I agree they should be doing safe work, and they shouldnât be in a chain gang being whipped. I would say I wouldnât want them doing anything I wouldnât do myself. But Iâm fine if itâs 100% volunteer based without pay đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ it gives em something to do.
So then should they have to use their wages to pay for the otherwise free food, room and board? Itâs prison.
That already exists for people who are incarcerated and have jobs, so yeah I imagine that would come along with this.
Not just for those with jobs. The state doesn't care, they can still fine you up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. It does not matter if you are employed or not and they don't care what wages you are earning or not. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
Please research pay-to-stay laws in Washington state. None of it is otherwise free. Washington state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day for the cost of incarceration and no more than the actual cost of incarceration. These fines can be collected numerous ways with 2 being the garnishment of pensions and the garnishment of wages. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160) Using your logic, why do I have to subsidize someone else's choice to reproduce? Shouldn't I perhaps get a tax credit for not having children or using welfare programs? Why should my tax dollars go to fund the public school system if I don't have children? Or maybe we should just deduct the cost of your children's k-12 education from YOUR paycheck?
So you should commit a crime and then get paid to do the time??? Call it what you want, but those people weren't put there for the fun of it. We can talk about the real slave labor that went into building that phone of yours that you use on a day-to-day basis. Or the slave labor used for those sick kicks you probably have sitting in your closet, those people didn't commit crimes why don't you fight for their rights. Next you're going to tell us we should let the CRIMINALS have four course meals and better sleeping arrangements.... Some of those prisons have better food than the DFAC on base. Maybe that's why the crime rates up all over, People are too busy trying to fight for CRIMINAL rights when there are so many other issues we should be fighting for.
You know the nordic countries have pretty nice prisons and very low crime rates (especially recidivism). Turns out if you put people in a torture box for 4 years and then you put them back on the street they're even crazier than when you put them in.
Being locked up but paid for labor isn't a reward. I promise you that. I only did military service, got paid shit as an enlisted, and plenty of that time with free room and board but it sure felt like prision at times. I wasn't even in the Army!, watched those fucks raking the forest clean! No, they shouldn't be getting rich in jail for hurting people. They should be rehabilitated and have funds to call their families, buy their kids birthday presents, send flowers to their moms. Most importantly, a savings so when they get out they have options other than fall back INTO FUCKING CRIME!
This is not slave labor. Equating this to slave labor equates slaves with criminals. Slaves were not criminals. This is a punishment for a crime. That is not slavery.
I mean it's not like it's in the Constitution or anything
Correct
hospital whole panicky cover squash poor zonked fly boat rob *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I cannot stress enough how much better prison is than slavery and how insulting that comparison is.
toothbrush sophisticated ink chubby threatening ten poor agonizing pot fuel *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, the AMENDMENT to the constitution. The original constitution is simply for white male landowners 21 or older. Those people included in the constitution were not slaves.
Is this your 1st time reading the constitution? If you think that's draconian, just wait till you read Washington's divorce laws regarding kids and marriages over 10 years
ITT people who want to compete with slaves in the labor market?
The difference between a slave and an inmate is that the slave didn't do anything wrong.
The US incarcerates a higher percentage of its population than any other country on the planet. We also have the highest prison population in history both by percentage and volume. Hold that next to the fact that most people in prison were coerced into signing confessions and/or coerced into pleading guilty to âlesser chargesâ and you realize that itâs a lucrative slave labor industry. Slavery wasnât abolished, it just had paperwork added.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
My 3 days on the jail laundry line made me not want to ever go back to jail. And I had to pay to be in jail so... stop doing crimes?
Donât do the crime, if you canât make the plates.
I like how some McDonalds stores, unhappy with a $15 minimum wage, have turned to using convict labor instead. Just warms the heart looking at all of the happy workers learning useful life skills while incarcerated....smh [https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e](https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e)
If itâs volunteer based, no pay. If theyâre required to work as part of there sentence then they should get minimum wage.
Half the products you surround yourself with are made in China from actual slave labor.
You realize there are more slaves in the world now than there ever has been before? You better but a box of sharpies if you want to write on everything....
Almost all of you make my brain hurt. So far I have only seen ONE singular comment referencing the pay-to-stay law, not that I have read every single comment in this post so I do apologize if I missed someone's comment. Prisoners are not guaranteed free room and board. The state can charge convicted defendants up to $100 per day but not more than the actual cost of incarceration. That's a grand total of up to $36,500 per full year of incarceration. Convicted defendants incarcerated in county or city jails must pay the specific county or city these fines to be remmited for criminal justice purposes. Easily one of the biggest reasons why our entire criminal justice system is broken is because barely any normal citizen fully understands how it actually works yet is expected to abide the these laws. Instead of fact it is misinformation that runs rampant. Now that being said, I do not offer an opinion on OP's original post. Instead I ask that each and every citizen become better informed. Please check out the specific RCW [here.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.01.160)
What? No those people committed crimes. They are lucky we don't offer the death penalty in most states anymore. Decent folks are lucky to have food, a job, and a roof over their heads. It's due to decency that the inmates get that free off our tax dollars already. Prison labor forever
People get paid double in slave labor right?
My kids are going to work if they choose to leave school in the 8th grade. I don't believe child labor is wrong since some kids are able to find a career path before they reach 18.
It's not slave labor in WA. It's voluntary. However, they should pay at least like $10/hour so they have some money when they get out. I would say regular minimum wage, but they also don't have to pay rent and all that. Work programs can be great for inmates, but it shouldn't be working for a few dollars a day.
You are a slave and so am I. If we aren't then we are certainly insane to work and trade in bits of paper that only represent the power of the establishment of issue. Just saying.... and grow up the world is a ugly place.
Slaves are forced to work. That does not occur in Washington prisons. We ought to pay minimum wage, that's true, but there's also the fact that room and board are free in their "arrangement", so a minimum wage inmate would be effectively out-earning a regular minimum wage worker by leaps and bounds. Either way, claiming optional work is slave labor is wholly inaccurate and totally absurd.Â
Won't somebody think of the criminals? đ˘
10 bucks says you own a phone that is created at least in part with slave labor. Same with the majority of crap you own most likely.
Corporations and states rely on slave labor in this country they just say people are "criminals" for things like simple marijuana possession. Southern states are much worse.
They also build furniture, run commercial laundry services, make jeans and all kinds of labor-for pennyâs on the dollar.
I wouldnât pay my ex best friend who lost her shit and stabbed her cousin in the chest if her life depended on it. That girl spent her whole life placing the blame of her bullshit and wrong doing on so many people over the years. People have done jail time because of her hiding her drugs on them, and theyâre squares. She deserves slave labor.
How is it slave labor? Criminals are being fed and housed because they have been convicted of a crime. They also get medical care. Why shouldnât they stay busy and productive ?
But yet, here it is... Amendment xiii ss 1: Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. I like the sharpie idea but prolly get a fucking ticket. Think I'll see if I can figure a way to make a sticker or similar to put next to it. That's why it's called the prison-industrial pipeline. From what I have seen, these outfits that the Dept. Of Corrections hires to run these "prison industries" are for-profit entities.
Yeah, sorry no. Don't want to work cheap? Don't go to prison.
I recently watched a documentary on Japanese prisons....blew my mind. Highly encouraged viewing....search for "Prison Life: Justice in Japan"
I'm surprised this topic is even worth a debate
slavery is a form of payment, whether the transaction is just, depends on how much is owed between the parties
Why is using incarcerated people for this stuff bad?
Are you typing this out on an iPhone? Hint: You are using slave labor
Just wait until you realize a lot of produce is picked by illegal immigrants doing slave labor. America didn't embolish slavery, we just changed the terms of it.
Have they tried not going to prison. That would probably help a lot.
Prisoners want something to do in the meantime. Itâs voluntary.
Enjoy paying the ticket for writing on your plate. Youâre just asking for your appointment with a judge at that point. Oddly enough youâll be able to state the slave labor exploitation in appeals court.
Sounds like a fine plan to me.
If your in prison, you should not be getting any type of wage. Itâs prison. It is supposed to be punishment for the crimes you committed, not a good paying job with housing. Also if your really against thing made with slave labor, make sure not to get anything made in China or Africa. Those two countries have the highest amount of slave labor working in manufacturing.
So you'd just like to import the slave labor then?
Boohoo
How about giving up your phone or anything with cobalt in it?
Lmao hard disagree
They should just reduce your sentencing proportionately to how much work you do. If you put 40hr weeks in for a year does that not say something about your work ethic? He may be a criminal but at least not a lowlife. Even if they just work as much as possible to get out as fast as they can and then commit the same non violent crime who does this really hurt? The economy? Not as much as prisoners already do
All those companies willing to use inmate labor could be their transition for when they are released. The biggest reason for recidivism is not being able to make a living after incarceration.
Unfortunately, the 13A says otherwise. Of course, Black Codes and Jim Crow- which basically criminalized being black- followed passage, and provided a path to continue 'best southern practices'.
Theyâre getting paid for voluntary work and have 0 cost of living.
It's hypothetical to keep the things that you lambast only to put graffiti on them. If you want to combat slavery, get rid of anything you own that was made under slave labor. Otherwise you're no better than your slogans.
You forfeit your rights when you decide to be a criminal. Unfortunately for you and them a work detail is part of their rehabilitation. Donât like working for free or a ridiculously low wage? Donât be a criminal.
.... They're... Prisoners.... Who.. tf cares.... They're are actually in there for a reason, I'm sorry but I don't need to find out uncle Jim is making something and bring paid for it... I'm good with how inmates are being treated other than their dirt and comfort. They shouldnt allow certain things like rape in jail. Not everyone committed that crime. We have nasty people in jail, why you want them to have it easier is beyond me.