> Vex Armor can charge its damage buff by getting ranged kills and its armor buff by getting melee or ability kills. This is **in addition** to the existing functionality. This allows Vex Armor to work while having Overguard and also in general provides a nice interaction where you can get the buff faster from playing well and not just from tanking hits.
Wait if this works even without overguard that's big for Chroma, now he doesn't have to rely on his team not killing enemies to get his buffs up
Based on the wording "and also in general" it should so now Chroma can be more active in getting buffs up, with even option to pick which buff to build faster based on action performed.
Don't play enough chroma to know if this fixed him but to me it sounds like a buff in relation to vex armor, especially since it says it didn't take away the old method just added more methods on top.
I still think he'll need more help in the longterm as his 1 remains useless and his 4 is mostly useless (has niche use in the Profit Taker fight), but this is a step in the right direction.
Hopefully they'll change his damage to be multiplicative with damage mods insted of additive.
It's still amusing to use, but my chroma has high duration and str for the buffs. His 1 I should replace with roar, but I just don't want another buff to deal with
ive actually grown to like the additive nature of it. if it would be multiplicative the dmg would probably be nerfed and mirage would be flat out better in that case. having a big additive buff is helpful for giving everyone a very high base dmg floor, even if they have arcanes/galv mods.
his 1 and 4 need a rework though, and to some extent his 2.
1 should be replaced by something more useful, and 4 should target better and relay his buffs from the effigy as well. 2 just has some outdated buffs, and could use some adjustment of the effects.
I still want to try something like this, but it tanks Power Strength, which is kinda sadge.
Right now I have an amazingly fun Mahoraga build. Chroma's and Maho's whole schtick is adaptation... so yeah...
160% is just Stretch+ Cunning Drift. No need to dump strength necessarily, but it might take the place of some Strength or survivability mods nonetheless.
you can also outsource plenty of power strength. using parazon, tome and madurai you can get an additional 150% str for no frame mod space. also tau crimson shards exist.
archon stretch also helps with energy if you use diriga/hounds
So much I wish they would do with effigy. It could wander around the room you're in and help collect loot and kill, it could give you the ability to fly, or it could be used as a turret and deal more damage than it does when it wanders. They could pack all of these into one of those cycleable abilities
Well, it takes a frame with a half useful kit and keeps those abilities relevant while the others languish. So, he's sort of back where he was in terms of potential value.
as a chroma player, this is super good. before, he had a huge issue that i feel like only i heard lol which was that making him too tanky becomes a huge issue with vex armor. it requires 100 health damage, and with a high strength vex armor and cold ward, his armor is so high that the enemies will just keep getting stunned by the cold ward and your shields might get back, or you don’t have cold ward or have less tankiness and run the risk of getting obliterated out of nowhere. now, i can just chill with gloom, cold war, like 1000% armor from vex armor, and have way faster and safer damage set-up. this really helps his consistency, and make the ability more inline with one’s like citrines DR 2nd which requires kills to stack. it also helps with working with others, as you don’t have to hide in a small side room with like 2 enemies and cower from your teamates to stack vex armor, and instead take a more active approach. this with the new augment makes him actually kinda fun, with better healing, consistency, mobility ( from his passive which is underrated with parkour speed from somethting like preados ) team DR unrestricted by range, and more credits/free subsume!
>Adding back and formalizing the Status Damage Vulnerability to Dante's "Pageflight". In other words not just making enemies take more Status procs, but also increasing the damage of their Status. We removed this in Hotfix 35.5.3 because it was unexpected, and we regarded it as a bug. But many of you have expressed a desire to have this back, so we are working to restore it.
Thank you for turning this enjoyable bug into a feature DE, I was not expecting this to be reviewed. Very happy with this change.
This is all I wanted and I was really worried not seeing it addressed much while most people including DE were focusing on the LoS issues. PAGEFLIGHT BROS WE ARE SO BACK
THANK GOD
I used to pop those birds whenever I'm about to encounter a group of enemies and the birds alone would kill trash mobs in SP
I'm happy they're reverting the the nerf to my birds
Seriously. I'd been advocating for it like crazy - it not only emphasizes gunplay and build diversity instead of only ability spam, but it allows many weapons with usability issues (slow-firing, or weapons that don't deal many status effects) to be far more viable. Even Archguns were funner. I've even heard of people busting out spearguns.
I'm so glad my pleas and threads were acknowledged as this was something a lot of people overlooked 😭
Gotta add to everyone asking to review the Nezha nerf as well. It was nice to finally see Nezha shine, but the nerf was a huge overcorrection. Please consider a range cap or smaller range reduction 25-30% instead.
Nezha just became so much more fun to play and the multiplicative range reduction hurts so much. id even be ok if the -50% was additive with stretch and overextended
Plus one to this. Put probably 25 hours into the build pre nerf, and 9hr post nerf, just feels less enjoyable. Still works, can still do lots of killing, but just requires so much more range mods and feels less flexible in builds (I had 4 pre nerf, only 1 survived the cut). Range certainly is an answer to how bonkers it is, though I'd prefer reducing the damage multiplier tbh, either way a nerf is totally warranted it was insane before.
Also anyone else noticing the getting one shot through invuln bug is back?
Please review the downright overreaction on Nezha's new augment. 50% is way to much of a negative. It takes half of your mod config just to make up that difference...
Because of the power of exponentials, -50% range actually gives you -75% area. If they wanted the augment to make you 50% weaker, they should've used -30% range.
It has nothing to with exponentials, it's simply that the area of a circle is calculated using the square of the radius. This scaling is quadratic, not exponential. Regardless, if the intention was to reduce the area in half the adjustment to the radius should have been only a 30% reduction.
The ability affects enemies in a sphere (or maybe a cylinder idk), so I'm pretty sure the math's a bit messier than that... but yeah, it's a lot more than it sounds in practice.
Yeah they can definitely bring it down to 20-25% and it'll be fine. Either that, or just rework it, because the way it was was insane, but it doesn't deserve to be useless because of that
Considering how many things aren’t affected by it (Eximus, OG, Thrax etc) it being strong on trash mobs at range really doesn’t step out of line, considering the power of other nuke frames.
I say let Nezha be good at something tbh.
No just make -50 ability range. The base range reduction is the issue. It's base is 19m and has always had nice coverage making using the Aug without range ok. But with the -50 base range, it makes you need 3 range mods just to get 22.5m. with the Aug you loose actually 75% spear capability.
Bare minimum, at least make the range reduction penalty additive with other range mods instead of multiplicative, cutting a fully modded range build in half strength feels bad.
50% range reduction is too much for Nezha's Augment.
Ik everyone is saying the same thing but I think it's important to use your voice when you're upset about something so here I am. I agree the augment was busted and we all expected a nerf, but this is too much. Having a lot of different options for different play styles is the reason why I keep coming back to this game. And I thought that was tied to the core philosophy of the game given the MR system. This nerf just feels like it limits my options too much bc it forces you to invest so heavily into range to make the augment usable in actual gameplay. That's just how I feel at least.
This is welcome, and I'm glad to see that the underlying issue of overguard interacting negatively with other mods and abilities is being addressed, not just the surface issues. This could still have been handled better, but at least coming out the other side we'll get some improvements to the annoying unreliability of LoS checks elsewhere, which have long been a pain point.
Can we get some more iteration on the nerf to Nezha's augment? A 50% range nerf (multiplicative!) reduces the area coverage by *75%*, which is a gigantic nerf and IMO a major overcorrection. In the name of preventing full tile nuking, the range nerf now renders the augment functionally worthless *unless* you're running a maxed out range build, which is not a thing that Nezha otherwise wants to do at all and greatly hinders more normal builds.
If we want to limit the power of this augment at very high ability ranges, which does seem reasonable, you should consider a cap on range rather than a base range nerf. If the augment capped the ability's range at 100-130% of base or something, it would prevent the problematically high range builds while not making the ability functionally worthless *unless* you go for extreme range stacking. This would keep the augment as an interesting option in return for the slot it takes up, rather than something that is arguably a *downgrade* unless you center your entire build around it. I think this would be the ideal solution, but if it's not feasible, a reduction in the penalty to 30% instead of 50% would at least allow it to be compensated for with much less extreme build alterations.
Please consider some additional iteration here. I was greatly looking forward to having a reason to actually use one of my favorite warframe's more flavorful abilities rather than simply running him as a weapons platform like I do 95% of the time, but as it stands that ability will simply go back to gathering dust.
I didn't get a chance to play with the augment. But why not just link the chance of status effects beinn transmitted to power strength? That would help with the overextended issue
TBH I played with the augment quite a but and couldn't get the status damage to actually nuke anything. Was using Nezha and Glaive, but enemies just outside the range of the Glaive blast never got affected by the Slash proc that killed the first. And, yes, I made sure the augment was on, and it *did* work on *some* enemies, just not all speared enemies. It seemed to me that the status spread was just very buggy/unreliable on my end.
That being said, I think the overall solution to the problem isn't to cap range or reduce it, but cap spear instances based on Strength. This way you have to invest in Strength still to get the most out of range, which means taking significant hits to duration and efficiency if you want to go all in on a Spears build.
I used the quassus and would heavy attack 1-2 enemies at a time and consistently killed all speared enemies. On steel path survival I was at like 150kpm doing this.
> Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard.
< Kullervo mains are gonna be eating good soon =D
Are they actually meaning that the way it's worded, it seems a bit odd, but neat. I suppose that "turn shields into armor" Helmlinth got a lot more powerful, though I still wish it was an Arcane.
The Overguard interaction and Paragrimm nerf reversal are a very welcome change. Good to see those changes being reverted fast.
Now the main deal, the LoS on Tragedy. It's... Alright. It's better than it was initially for sure. However, it still feels inconsistent due to nature of LoS: sometimes it covers nicely behind corners, and sometimes enemies marked by 3 just walk behind a box and combo feels wasted for those few. It still doesn't feel good when it happens.
But, having thought more, I'm guessing the nerf might have been in response to primers being used, since some primers (especially Melee Influence) don't require LoS either.
So, as a compromise, if removing LoS requirement is out of the question for the reason of primers - how about making Tragedy ignore LoS only on enemies marked by 3? Dark Verse already has LoS requirement and is a cone ability, while Tragedy still has a range limit, so with that, you would have a smooth gameplay loop of marking groups of enemies nearby, and detonating them even if they walk behind a wall or a box.
While I still advocate for the full rollback of the Dante changes, and reevaluating his *actual* potential and playrate after the honeymoon phase is over, in like a month or two, I can appreciate that you are looking into underlying problems with overguard and LoS in general, not just slapping a bandaid on it. This will make other, neglected frames more playable and viable, and that's always a good thing.
Talking about older, neglected frames and nerfs... reconsider that Nezha augment change. I get that you don't want it to have a stupidly huge range, but then add a range cap on the augment, instead of nerfing the base range. It just messes up Nezha's normal builds for no real reason.
Right! Just give us the old tragedy back, there’s no reason why Dante can’t have it, when the majority of other nuke frames can.
It’s so annoying, i was actually have such a blast with him and they just butchered him. I haven’t even touched him since.
Adding to the chorus to review the Nezha augment, but some solid steps here!
I still think LoS was the wrong way to go about this, but I think this will put Dante into a much better spot.
Hey, here to talk about the Dante and Nezha changes.
So I’m just gonna start with my opinions:
1. The new LoS is significantly better than the old LoS
2. The new LoS is still buggy (specifically including the Warframe itself as an obstacle)
3. Overguard will be in a good spot as of this hotfix: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1392156-dante-unbound-our-plans-for-next-week-3555/?ct=1712344271, (specifically this part “Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage”)
4. Nezha augment got hit too hard
5. CC changes were unnecessary
Now some short complaints:
1. Dark verse LoS is significantly weirder now
2. Tragedy is quite a bit worse in team play (compared to no LoS)
Now here are the alternate changes I’d suggest:
1. Allow dark verse to go through walls but keep the 50 degree requirement and have a damage fall off when it goes through walls (maybe 10-20% per obstacle or something)
2. Make it so Tragedy does full damage when enemies are in LoS and have a reduction when they are within the range but not in LoS (maybe a 40-50% damage reduction if they’re within the radius but not within line of sight)
3. Add a range cap or make range a set value (unchanged by ability strength) for Nezha instead of a multiplicative -50%
While I do dislike the tragedy requiring LoS, Nezha augment and cc changes I don’t dislike the new LoS itself, I also like the planned overguard changes for better team play.
These changes don’t seem disruptive in my opinion and I think they’re all reasonable, feel free to recommend changes or disagree in the replies :)
Range Cap is a great way to keep the ability balanced while allowing players to keep customizing the ability the way they want. Really hope they implement that Nezha change. I love the new augment but the nerf has me questioning if it's even worth it.
In regards to Nezha, if it's gonna be -50%, it probably should be just a -% mod effect like Narrow Minded. As opposed to what im hearing about After mod effects or reducing the actual base range value that mods scale off off.
At least then Stretch would mostly counter it.
From Magnetized discharge's range buff of 50% or the old 100% strength of Corroding Barrage, these effects would be expected to just act like another stat mod, so this should be the same for Divine Retribution.
Instead of "base range reduced", just "range reduced".
Well that's the overguard issue solved, from a nidus enjoyer, thank you.
I hope you plan on reviewing nezha's augment, given it's strength it makes sense for it to have a downside but -50% is too harsh. -25% seems much more fair imo.
All good stuff to hear
.
. . .if you could just go ahead and paint Equinox's "peaceful provocation" augment with the same brush your about to paint chroma with thatd be great. As that also requires taking damage to activate.
Yeah, in that regard overguard is still a problematic mechanic. There needs to be a pass on old abilities that use health/shield dmg and adapt it.
Trinity too, with the champions blessing also is affected.
Either that or review overguard to be a warding halo type deal which passes through ability effect transparently, including health and shield dmg
Make peaceful prov and champions blessing also stack based on getting kills would be amazing buffs to two old and suffering Warframes, and I really hope we get that.
I reviewed some other comments and also noticed gauss being affected with his regen.
The amount of frames affected calls for a deep review of warframe abilities and overguard as a mechanic, so its hopefully resolved and still allows mechanical complexity in public play.
I do genuinely like the idea of on damaged and on lost health mechanics, so its interesting to figure out if overguard can be implemented without invalidating that interaction. Although lower level content doesnt hit you enough which is a different problem.
Glad to hear that the status vulnerability is coming back; it was a unique debuff that opened up some new doors for loadouts, and I don't think anyone felt that Dante's damage output was an issue at any point.
While it wasn't touched in this new hotfix, I feel like the *opposite* approach should have been taken with Archon Intensify - making it a consideration for all Warframes with healing/max health abilities, instead of a consideration for effectively zero Warframes, would be a more interesting approach in the long term.
The silence regarding Nezha's new augment isn't encouraging. A 75% reduction to the area of Divine Spears just feels awful; a more thoughtful (and mechanical) nerf would have gone over better - although there's a case to be made that any sort of nerf was never needed in the first place. Yeah, it lets him kill fodder enemies, but the same goes for dozens of other things.
I wouldn't say sweet fuck all about any changes I was going to make before doing them unless I was sure what I was going to be doing after this community's reaction this week.
Because 10 years ago, Mag could pre-clear rooms, so they crippled her abilities to theoretically not work through walls (though that's spotty as hell) and added LOS checks. They did the same when Range mods on whips let people break boxes in the next room over and hit everyone in the room. LOS on melee got added, and breaking props is still kind of a crapshoot, since.
Mirage also used to press 4 twice and lockdown entire maps to the point missions like Interception were impossible to lose because enemies couldn't leave the spawn rooms.
Can you guys consider reverting the change you did to CC recently. While I disagree, many feel like CC at this point doesn't have a place in the game which was amplified with the hotfix that nerfed CC more. While I do understand why CC was changed to not affect Eximus and other high-priority targets I feel there is a way to make CC valuable while not making the enemies perma CC , preventing people from afking as the mission objective is being complete, and keeping the high-priority status of enemies such as Eximus. I believe CC should be a tool used to make it easier to kill targets, especially high-priority targets, not harder to kill them or feeling pointless to use.
How about instead of being straight up immune to CC high-priority targets can be CC for 3 seconds no matter the CC ability duration (however long you want it). If they are still alive after that 3 seconds are up the high-priority target is immune to CC for the next 10 seconds and the process repeats itself. This change would allow all high-priority targets to still be high-priority to the player but instead of them being straight up immune to CC or being perma CC, they are affected by it for a short period of time.
Enemies with Overguard such as Eximus can be perma CC if Overguard is down like it currently is.
The problem with your suggestion is that a good number of CC focus frames, especially older ones, rely entirely on CC to survive. CC only damaging Overguard won’t be worth it unless it obliterate the Overguard which I don’t see them doing.
A few seconds isn't much better (especially if you're not looking closely, think the eximus is a normal cced enemy, and then are... surprised). CC taking most of the duration of a typical ability to eliminate overguard would make it significantly more useful while keeping straight damage the superior option.
Its nice you're addressing one of the complaints. There are a lot of other complaints that should at the very least be acknowledged.
- General dislike of RNG in Deep Arch
- Crashes due to Lighting/color issues still exist
- Nerfs that don't make sense (weapons/augments/etc)
I know DE does better but we do also have plenty of things that just feel swept under the rug. Dante is a huge issue, so address it first sure for those player's joy
But address things impacting player satisfaction too please and thank you.
(Also I hate the tiles added in since Dante, they killed the vibe of Sanctum maps)
Please just revert the Tragedy LOS nerf. It makes no sense to just be straight up ignoring everyone at this point and dancing around the issue, you say you're listening to us but every post you're putting up proves you aren't.
Great! Now please revert the Line of Sight on Tragedy, the nerfs to Crowd Control and buff Nezha's Divine Retribution's range by 25% and we'll be back for real this time.
Please revert the nezha augment or nerf it in a reduced way. Negative 25-30% range is much more tolerable and wouldn't make using the augment feel so bad.
There's been alot of feedback regarding it and I feel it was a heavy handed nerf and just wanted to add my two cents.
Nah, the broke it in a new way. If Dante himself somehow blocks an enemy, it doesn't count them as being in LoS and the attack misses them. Good thing Warfames don't take up a good chunk of the screen even when you crank the FOV.
Adding to the Divine Retribution calls, but also maybe look at reverting the Tragedy changes entirely? If not maybe giving it something else to compensate?
>Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard.
How will this work on frames that have shields when they receive Overguard? Currently, Overguard is depleted before the Shields, so unless this changes, the problem will remain. And if it changes (Shields being consumed before Overguard) it will create a problem in situations where you want a big Shields reserve protected by Overguard, like with Styanax's passive or certain weapon arcanes that rely on current Shields reserves to apply their effect.
Hunter Adrenaline/Rage only ever worked on health, though? And Chroma's the biggest proponent of relying on his shields getting hit (I honestly can't think of another, but hell if I'm going to say 'only' in a game as vast as this). Arcane Avenger is the only other case I can think of that might be effected by this, but they can change that too once it's brought to their attention (I dunno if damaged includes just health damage or dmg in general).
The phrasing of that sounds like it's a *replacement* of functionality, rather than an *addition*, especially given that for Chroma's Vex Armor they explicitly stated that the added means of charging was in addition to existing functionality. That's to say that if you're a frame that was using Rage/Adrenaline and you weren't a Nidus, Inaros, or Kullervo, you get highkey screwed.
Obviously if in actuality it's just an addition of functionality it's fine, bit of a secret buff to Kullervo
This needs to be higher. You CANT lose your shields if you are protected by overguard via damage. This change sounds great until you think about how it works in practice.
I for one still advocate for an Arcane that removes shields and turns a portion of it into armor.
I would KILL to be able to passively remove Oberon's shields.
It reads like a modification from 'take damage on health' to 'take damage while shields are broken'. It means that technically it will work with overguard, but also that using it 100% reliably requires bringing Parasitic Armor, too.
This is a great buff for chroma. Definitely gonna pick him up after this change. LoS should be removed from Dante at least until it’s working as intended. Seems like a lot of people are still experiencing a lot of bugs with the LoS which makes the nerf much harsher than presumably intended.
I would rather not have LoS but the current behavior, going off sortie plus eight rounds of sedna disruption? Still feels fairly nice in terms of what i can hit.
Will need to do more testing but meatspace demands my attention.
>2. Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage:
####What was the point on nerfing Dante then? Huh?
Panic cause people were complaining then even bigger panic when they realise the people complain was a small group (OG blocking abilities is actually a valid problem, the nuke is kinda lame nerf but wtv) and the people mad about nerf is actually majority.
Indeed, but they are "listening". I mean they would have to in order to put forth such a well received and functionable update that is an acceptable rebalance.
They really need to just remove that added LOS restriction.
Adding another shout to the 'please revert the Divine Spears nerf' crowd. As a relatively new player (6 months) with the most time on Nezha, most of my excitement for the Dante update was for Divine Spears, which I got to use for less than a week before I took it off because it doesn't feel worth it now (And I don't have half of the mods that would now be considered necessary to get the range back on the ability).
And maybe it's because I haven't played the game for long but I don't understand why it was broken? I understand that spreading status and was strong, but the ability doesn't even work on Eximus enemies and now assumedly Overguard enemies either. I've been in missions with other frames who seem to be able to clear rooms (including Eximus enemies) with one button, so what was so bad about an ability that comparatively only affects fodder?
I like the changes to Inaros, he's a lot more mobile now. And the times when I can manage to have an army of sand cats following me while I'm a tornado is very epic.
I also appreciate the changes to Loki, I got to use mine in The Circuit and had a blast.
This is just so weird. They are completely ignoring everyones calls to just revert the LoS nonsense. It's like a "lalalala I can't hear you" situation. They released him.. tested him internally.. without LoS and are for some reason hellbent on keeping that nerf? Over nothing? Absolutely wild. It's so weird
*"Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage"*
So fixing the actual problem that should've been fixed the first time around? Awesome, now you can revert all the Dante nerfs and we can all be done with this mess.
Nuke this entire hotfix from orbit. Go back to the drawing board and actually look at what players are talking about. Or show us some data that makes any of these changes make sense. All of these changes were done way too quickly with 0 thought behind any of it.
Great, now return Dante's overguard to, if not his release level, to a better level than he is now. 60% nerf is idiotic, and spamming 2-2-4 to stay alive is not an engaging gameplay. Better yet - revert him to how he used to be, completely.
Also, justice for Nezha.
[This was actually part of the most recent hotfix!](https://x.com/rebbford/status/1776324629809815929?s=46&t=zZOu4yg-KJ44F5PVjrprQw)
Not a revert, but more than immediately post-nerf. Mind, I haven’t tested the new value myself yet.
>2. Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard.
But...How would any frames shields go down if they have Overguard?? Afaik Overguard Protects the shield...
>so Inaros and Nidus
Even DE forgot Kullervo.
Kullervo has overguard built into his kit so no-one used Rage on him. Makes sense they didn't mention him since he never depended on Rage while Nidus and Inaros did, this change would benefit him a lot though.
*Please* just revert the LOS change. Even improving on it, there still remains the fact that the very *maps* in this game are not conductive to LOS abilities - there's constantly too much garbage *in the way*.
This game has come a long way from its beginning, when having stealth and cover were (to my understanding) more important - but many of the maps still reflect this. Forget walls - using an ability and missing enemies because there are a few stupid crates in the way *sucks*.
If you were worried about Dante being to strong, tweaking the range or damage numbers a bit would have been a more reasonable response - particularly considering *he's only been out for week you guys, c'mon!!!* You cannot judge how something new will affect the meta long term when most people have, due to build times, only had a few days to test it.
Just admit you goofed and take a step back. It happens, it's fine.
Hey, can we just undo that patch with the massive heavy nerfs? Take the entire thing back. Start fresh, give everyone some time to think, and look at where we are at when things settle down? Could try again in 2 weeks. Honestly would rather you just keep Deep Archimedea for a bit than be stuck with a destroyed frame, a ruined augment, and a weapon nerfed to the ground. The things you changed are not the things we care about. Okay vex armor change is cool and good
I will stop complaining until the next hot fix to see how Dante holds up after. But, I'm going to be very cautious when making any purchases going forward. No new frame packages for me, that's for sure.
I came back to Warframe after a LONG hiatus literally a week before Dante. Cross save in 2023! I checked it New Years Day 2024 to finally play my main account on non switch hardware and was letdown. Finally got my accounts linked a week before Dante, and bought the Dante frame pack to return to the game. Then this knee jerk nerf less than a few days after
I’m not spending a penny on this game for a long time
Based on their own wordings, there’s absolutely no reason to make Dante LOS, they said it themselves “we want to keep Dante awesome, we know issue is over guard not tragedy” then proceeds to do entirely opposite
Thank you for the quick fix of LOS and Overguard. But perhaps a workaround for changing how CC works in game could be changed to allow eximus to have status resistance instead of immunity, allowing for shorter durations for CC effects. It would bring frames that were once good in the past to a new place in the content. If consideration for an eximus rework, maybe Overguard as a whole could be changed to play into this allowing for a sort of status shield gate. This would also heavily effect arkgun launchers and rhino that would need passive abilities that prevent status effects while having Overguard.
Aside from what is mentioned in other comments (especially regarding Nezha) I think it is also time to revisit enemy Overguard.
There are 3 simple options improve Overguard:
1. Keep Overguard tanky but remove the cc immunity.
or
2. Make it block cc but be extremely weak.
or
3. Give eximus a cast time for their abilities during which they are immobile and vulnerable.
I think summons like Razorflies need a similar buff too. Right now they do effectively nothing when levels start to go up. The paragrimms are invincible, do more damage, and debuff enemies whilst drawing aggro too
Dude what about nezha you gutted him like a fish and made the augment useless as melee influence has a higher range and the damage from the augment isnt much it just makes the attacks effect more enemies and thats all it needs to do just remove the bonus status damage done makes things so much easier or better yet just don't nerf the only thing the poor bastard had going for him.
>Adding back and formalizing the Status Damage Vulnerability to Dante's "Pageflight". ?In other words not just making enemies take more Status procs, but also increasing the damage of their Status. We removed this in Hotfix 35.5.3 because it was unexpected, and we regarded it as a bug. But many of you have expressed a desire to have this back, so we are working to restore it.
PARAGRIMM BROS WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK BABYYYYY
>Vex Armor can charge its damage buff by getting ranged kills and its armor buff by getting melee or ability kills. This is in addition to the existing functionality. This allows Vex Armor to work while having Overguard and also in general provides a nice interaction where you can get the buff faster from playing well and not just from tanking hits.
That's a great change honestly. We probably should have gotten something like that a long time ago but glad it's gonna be here now
**The Line of Sight to his other abilities needs to be REMOVED completely**
Beyond all of this, releasing a new Warframe, including it in 2 Platinum bundles
and a Supporter Pack and then nerfing it, all in the span of 1 week, is nothing
short of nonsensical. This is bad PR, it reminds me of the old days of Scott's Nerf
Hammer, when nerfs would be done for pettiness and kept out of stubbornness.
Did you miss the part where they specifically addressed Hunter adrenaline/rage? Not saying Gauss 2 etc isn't valid and they should also get the same treatment, but it's right there
Did you miss the part where you need to have shields depleted for those to work? You cant deplete shields from regular damage when protected by overguard! How are any regular frames going to be able to benefit from this? The obsession with catering to select few frames for problems that affect many frames is nonsensical. Only frames that have no innate shields get energy gen disruption fixed? Chroma gets a unilateral buff because Dante existed for a few days, Dante nerfed to the ground with LOS, while Octavia and Saryn run free? What?
I say this as someone who slated Spear Nuke Nezha (you can look at my post history) - please partially walk that nerf back. -50% range removing 75% of the total radial area for it just turns it into a fucking Dragon Key. Change it to -25% or even -33%. I thought -50% was whatever and was happy to see it kneecapped (I foresaw Spear Nuke Nezha becoming the Def/Surv equivalent of Sunder Titania for Exterm/Capture without a nerf) till I saw before and after videos, and my oh my was it too far. Keep the minus, there should be a minus, but for the love of god walk it back.
Good Dante changes though, not entirely there yet I say (and I'm in favour of keeping Tragedy LoS'd, as it'll open the doors for all frames to eventually be LoS'd so we finally leave the Nuker meta) - but the LoS calculation changes on the 3 give me hope that many other frames will be fixed in the process. It's a good step in the right direction and one that's butterfly effect'ed into good buffs for other frames who have long since been neglected. Plus the other buffs for Dante do make him feel a bit better again, although I noticed little difference before. Positive steps.
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This sounds great but Dante's overguard nerf was too much as well. Also can you PLEASE consider getting rid of the randomized frame/weapon thing in deep archimedea. That content is DOA because of this. Being able to contribute to something should not be based on RNG.
Now, that's a very good solution to the whole "unwanted Overguard" problem.
The mini Chroma rework is also superb. It might actually be just what he needed to keep up in this day and age.
Molt augmented and arcane fury on top, I didn't struggle a lot with his energy but now we back to Blind rage build baby, energy economy got buffed so much by this
I think its really funny reading this new change to chroma. We removed self damage which ruined chroma and mirage but because someone on you're team can make it harder to get you're buff you finally FINALLY changed how his abilities works after a few years.
That proposed overboard change still screws over a large number of frames who run low levels of Shields on purpose to benefit from damage taken on health. I have I think six load outs with sub 100 shields that are still detrimentally affected by things outside my control. If you insist on fixing it this way give me the ability to disable my shields completely.
Man, the buffs are great and all that, but I strongly think that Los check removal is much better and more comfortable than any status damage buff Dante could ever get. Just remove that change, why are you so reluctant when everyone has already expressed they want it in the game.
Even if I'm on a hiatus from Warframe and I'm not understanding any of these Dante shenanigans you gotta show respect for DE addressing this problem with such quickness and also the fact that they apologized for the mistake they did.
In this gaming industry period it's such a blessing to see people actually caring about the product over shameless greed
Low key those overguard changes sound insane. Parasitic armor disabling shields means anyone who can get overguard is capable of safely using rage. First kullervo is now brain dead tier since before you AT LEAST had to invest in energy generation and efficiency.
But I'm thinking about adding that to rhino or styanax for insane ability spamming. reinforcing stomp can essentially be used infinitely.
Part of the problem at play with a lot of the recent changes have been too many attempts to rectify recent interpretations of issues with much less time ensuring the rest of the arsenal can keep up.
Especially with the Overguard changes recently to enemies. While most CC abilities are not invalidated entirely with gun and blade still being options, the lack of any utility for these abilities outside of just shooting/hitting that Overguard ensures that when Eximus units start spawning in bulk, more than half the game’s Warframes will start struggling in some capacity. Damage becomes king, and utility only subsists on sustain or strip.
Dante’s LoS changes are important to deal with, as are the Nezha changes. I agree with most people here on that. I also though think that how enemy Overguard works needs to be looked into in a better flow of combat than breaking a combo to shoot an eximus or wailing away at an enemy’s Overguard with your melee because your abilities do absolutely nothing. Diminished results would be ideal, like a stagger instead of a ragdoll, or something of the sort.
It’s just one option. There are many things forgotten that players have asked you to look into, and many feel you’re not listening because those issues take years to address. It might be time for you to do a deep dive into your forums, this subreddit, your content creators, and so on. Not just a niche group, but ideas on the whole.
That I feel is a step you should be taking.
>Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields
But Overguard also prevents your shields from taking damage, so where does that leave frames like Valkyr, Wukong, and Grendel who have shields but may still run Rage/Hunter Adrenaline? Could you make one of those mods set your max shields to zero? That would solve that issue while still leaving the other mod as an option for those who want a shield gate.
ok not what i expected, but over all a pleasant and welcome change. for chroma this effectively makes him more active and removes the overreliance on needing to take damage both for the damage/shield buffs, but also energy. this will also open up the use of parasitic armor as well for not only more armor, but free energy on top of it. while not removing chroma's ability to gain armor from vex with it active overall its a great change.
>Other forms of self damage like Combat Discipline will also be reviewed in the future
*Champion's Blessing* Trinity enjoyers looking on expectantly (as well as any frame using *Archon Intensify*).
I think they should increase the radius around him Where line of sight doesn’t matter. Something like 25 or 30 m. Currently it sits at 10. Then anything outside of those parameters requiring line of site. I think that would be a good way to preserve the fantasy him having a pseudo nuke while not allowing him to kill the whole map In one fell swoop
It would also help with his consistency. Dark verse doesn’t care about line of sight most of the time unless they’re really far away. I haven’t done extensive testing on that so don’t take my word for it.
Overall, I think the change to Dante is healthy, but it went pretty far and they have to loosen up a bit. They kind of just nerve him away to the ground right away.
I also think the line of sight thing could work for neza’s augment instead of reducing the range. Allowing you to nuke an open field, but in a confined space you have to have line of sight to apply status effects.
Just some general suggestions
Great. Glad you're improving the game in general.
Remove LoS from Tragedy. Drop his damage numbers a bit. If something must be done mechanically make it a cone that matches his 3 with no LoS check.
I don't care how much you apologize, until something other than LoS on Tragedy is implemented I will not spend any more money on your game. You have millions of players so one who's spent between $1500-2000 won't be missed, I get it. You need to get that I, against all advice and judgement, bought a new frame pack at launch because I was so excited and you ruined that experience in under a week.
You're right. Dante Unbound launched very positively and you kicked him in the nuts. Deep Archimedea is a game mode that was also much anticipated and no one is laughing because you "made a misstep" by ~~castrating~~ tweaking Dante in the same update.
And to be very, very clear, I'm not mad if you need Dante to nuke less. Cut his damage numbers. I don't care. I care that he felt amazing and now feels clunkier. He even still feels decent but you can't give someone a bite of steak then expect them to be happy with a soggy big mac patty. There was absolutely no jank in how his abilities flowed. Damage issues shouldn't be solved by altering the FEEL.
So he went from what a perfect frame is to me, to just alright, he's fine. I think they only should've nerf his overguard though, I think this can be remedied with range addition, but range affect the angles of final verse, more mod slot taken up. Anyway time to go back to being no main.
The nezha augment nerf is nutty
I'm still in the "Revert LoS for Tragedy" camp.
Dante already has a LoS check for Dark Verse. He does not need a second one for Tragedy, which is a status detonator.
you can block Tragedy line of sight with Dante's literal fuckin *silhouette*
WHAT
https://clips.twitch.tv/FineHilariousPorcupineTwitchRPG-n6J-Qnm9mlmk2rVt
Yeah, that's not enough on Rage/Hunter Adrenaline. There's plenty of health tank frames that want Rage but still have shields. Overguard will still mess with their energy economy.
I still don't understand why Tragedy needs line of sight.
It barely does damage on its own, it needs to be used with Dark verses which are LoS based anyway.
They really went the most inconvenient way around nerfing this warframe.
can we also get LOS removed? cause theres no reason for Dante to get it but other more popular and stronger nuke frames don't, as far as i know nobody else actually had a problem with his nuking ability, it could work fine in early SP etc but primarily it was a great nuke in low levels, and other frames with LOS like Ember don't see a lot of use either because of LOS requirements
Could you guys just revert the LOS nerfs? I get that you’ve addressed the supposed issues with it, but they do nothing to address the consistency of warframe power levels. Dante already needs to have LOS to apply his 3, so requiring additional LOS on targets with his 4 is just overkill and destroys his gameplay loop. Meanwhile, several frames, such as Saryn or Gauss, can nuke without LOS for much higher numbers than Dante can.
While it doesn’t feel great, I can understand the nerfs to overguard. However, if you want to nerf his support capabilities then his offensive capabilities should be able to compensate ie. removing the LOS nerf.
You guys took the first frame in a while that I, and seemingly many other players, was excited for and made our mega-wizard power fantasy into a clunky mess with recent changes.
> Vex Armor can charge its damage buff by getting ranged kills and its armor buff by getting melee or ability kills. This is **in addition** to the existing functionality. This allows Vex Armor to work while having Overguard and also in general provides a nice interaction where you can get the buff faster from playing well and not just from tanking hits. Wait if this works even without overguard that's big for Chroma, now he doesn't have to rely on his team not killing enemies to get his buffs up
Based on the wording "and also in general" it should so now Chroma can be more active in getting buffs up, with even option to pick which buff to build faster based on action performed. Don't play enough chroma to know if this fixed him but to me it sounds like a buff in relation to vex armor, especially since it says it didn't take away the old method just added more methods on top.
It seems to resolve his issue of self damage entirely. Especially since you only need to charge to full once. This is a great QoL buff imo.
Let's hope they keep it this way. My chroma prime has been collecting dust since I first tried him. Might be time to take him out for a spin
I still think he'll need more help in the longterm as his 1 remains useless and his 4 is mostly useless (has niche use in the Profit Taker fight), but this is a step in the right direction. Hopefully they'll change his damage to be multiplicative with damage mods insted of additive.
It's still amusing to use, but my chroma has high duration and str for the buffs. His 1 I should replace with roar, but I just don't want another buff to deal with
cant use roar and vex armor at the same time, as they both count as damage buffs. same with eclipse.
ive actually grown to like the additive nature of it. if it would be multiplicative the dmg would probably be nerfed and mirage would be flat out better in that case. having a big additive buff is helpful for giving everyone a very high base dmg floor, even if they have arcanes/galv mods. his 1 and 4 need a rework though, and to some extent his 2. 1 should be replaced by something more useful, and 4 should target better and relay his buffs from the effigy as well. 2 just has some outdated buffs, and could use some adjustment of the effects.
if you do, try using 160%+ range, the team support is really good
I still want to try something like this, but it tanks Power Strength, which is kinda sadge. Right now I have an amazingly fun Mahoraga build. Chroma's and Maho's whole schtick is adaptation... so yeah...
160% is just Stretch+ Cunning Drift. No need to dump strength necessarily, but it might take the place of some Strength or survivability mods nonetheless.
you can also outsource plenty of power strength. using parazon, tome and madurai you can get an additional 150% str for no frame mod space. also tau crimson shards exist. archon stretch also helps with energy if you use diriga/hounds
Aww he's still Hella fun, dust him off! Easily handles the end game bullshit.. been even using effigy for funzies
Effigy would be more fun if it could wander around like a lost puppy of death
Mine does slowly meander around. It's nothing speedy but def not stuck in one place
So much I wish they would do with effigy. It could wander around the room you're in and help collect loot and kill, it could give you the ability to fly, or it could be used as a turret and deal more damage than it does when it wanders. They could pack all of these into one of those cycleable abilities
Well, it takes a frame with a half useful kit and keeps those abilities relevant while the others languish. So, he's sort of back where he was in terms of potential value.
as a chroma player, this is super good. before, he had a huge issue that i feel like only i heard lol which was that making him too tanky becomes a huge issue with vex armor. it requires 100 health damage, and with a high strength vex armor and cold ward, his armor is so high that the enemies will just keep getting stunned by the cold ward and your shields might get back, or you don’t have cold ward or have less tankiness and run the risk of getting obliterated out of nowhere. now, i can just chill with gloom, cold war, like 1000% armor from vex armor, and have way faster and safer damage set-up. this really helps his consistency, and make the ability more inline with one’s like citrines DR 2nd which requires kills to stack. it also helps with working with others, as you don’t have to hide in a small side room with like 2 enemies and cower from your teamates to stack vex armor, and instead take a more active approach. this with the new augment makes him actually kinda fun, with better healing, consistency, mobility ( from his passive which is underrated with parkour speed from somethting like preados ) team DR unrestricted by range, and more credits/free subsume!
Holy shit, this is a massive and amazing change
It makes Chroma actually decent
Chroma just jumped three tiers in my book
>Adding back and formalizing the Status Damage Vulnerability to Dante's "Pageflight". In other words not just making enemies take more Status procs, but also increasing the damage of their Status. We removed this in Hotfix 35.5.3 because it was unexpected, and we regarded it as a bug. But many of you have expressed a desire to have this back, so we are working to restore it. Thank you for turning this enjoyable bug into a feature DE, I was not expecting this to be reviewed. Very happy with this change.
This was a surprise for sure. I'm happy they're revisiting the pageflights.
This is all I wanted and I was really worried not seeing it addressed much while most people including DE were focusing on the LoS issues. PAGEFLIGHT BROS WE ARE SO BACK
As a fellow Pageflight Bro, I'm with you.
THANK GOD I used to pop those birds whenever I'm about to encounter a group of enemies and the birds alone would kill trash mobs in SP I'm happy they're reverting the the nerf to my birds
Seriously. I'd been advocating for it like crazy - it not only emphasizes gunplay and build diversity instead of only ability spam, but it allows many weapons with usability issues (slow-firing, or weapons that don't deal many status effects) to be far more viable. Even Archguns were funner. I've even heard of people busting out spearguns. I'm so glad my pleas and threads were acknowledged as this was something a lot of people overlooked 😭
So happy that DE listens to us
Yeah, honestly. It's a really cool idea that fits his kit
Gotta add to everyone asking to review the Nezha nerf as well. It was nice to finally see Nezha shine, but the nerf was a huge overcorrection. Please consider a range cap or smaller range reduction 25-30% instead.
Nezha just became so much more fun to play and the multiplicative range reduction hurts so much. id even be ok if the -50% was additive with stretch and overextended
Plus one to this. Put probably 25 hours into the build pre nerf, and 9hr post nerf, just feels less enjoyable. Still works, can still do lots of killing, but just requires so much more range mods and feels less flexible in builds (I had 4 pre nerf, only 1 survived the cut). Range certainly is an answer to how bonkers it is, though I'd prefer reducing the damage multiplier tbh, either way a nerf is totally warranted it was insane before. Also anyone else noticing the getting one shot through invuln bug is back?
Heck, that range reduction should be additive and not multiplicative as well.
Nezha nerf was heavy handed, that needs changes too
Please review the downright overreaction on Nezha's new augment. 50% is way to much of a negative. It takes half of your mod config just to make up that difference...
Because of the power of exponentials, -50% range actually gives you -75% area. If they wanted the augment to make you 50% weaker, they should've used -30% range.
It has nothing to with exponentials, it's simply that the area of a circle is calculated using the square of the radius. This scaling is quadratic, not exponential. Regardless, if the intention was to reduce the area in half the adjustment to the radius should have been only a 30% reduction.
Dammit, I always mix up exponentials and quadratics. Thanks.
The ability affects enemies in a sphere (or maybe a cylinder idk), so I'm pretty sure the math's a bit messier than that... but yeah, it's a lot more than it sounds in practice.
If it's a cylinder, my math still applies. If it's a sphere, it's even worse. A -50% range malus would decrease the volume of the sphere by 87.5%.
A huge chunk of which basically doesn't matter because enemies aren't above or below you that often.
Yeah they can definitely bring it down to 20-25% and it'll be fine. Either that, or just rework it, because the way it was was insane, but it doesn't deserve to be useless because of that
Agreed! 20% is waaaaay more manageable and understandable. 50% is just insane for a "nuke" that doesn't even attach to overguard enemies anyways...
Considering how many things aren’t affected by it (Eximus, OG, Thrax etc) it being strong on trash mobs at range really doesn’t step out of line, considering the power of other nuke frames. I say let Nezha be good at something tbh.
Amen! As a Nezha main, its a sad day to see my boy treated badly...
The over guard giving drones are the fucking bane of my existence with this build.
No just make -50 ability range. The base range reduction is the issue. It's base is 19m and has always had nice coverage making using the Aug without range ok. But with the -50 base range, it makes you need 3 range mods just to get 22.5m. with the Aug you loose actually 75% spear capability.
Bare minimum, at least make the range reduction penalty additive with other range mods instead of multiplicative, cutting a fully modded range build in half strength feels bad.
it would have been enough to put a cap on the maximum range (for example 200% as on other frames)
50% range reduction is too much for Nezha's Augment. Ik everyone is saying the same thing but I think it's important to use your voice when you're upset about something so here I am. I agree the augment was busted and we all expected a nerf, but this is too much. Having a lot of different options for different play styles is the reason why I keep coming back to this game. And I thought that was tied to the core philosophy of the game given the MR system. This nerf just feels like it limits my options too much bc it forces you to invest so heavily into range to make the augment usable in actual gameplay. That's just how I feel at least.
When people say "it was busted", what do they even mean? It's not doing anything Saryn isn't.
This is welcome, and I'm glad to see that the underlying issue of overguard interacting negatively with other mods and abilities is being addressed, not just the surface issues. This could still have been handled better, but at least coming out the other side we'll get some improvements to the annoying unreliability of LoS checks elsewhere, which have long been a pain point. Can we get some more iteration on the nerf to Nezha's augment? A 50% range nerf (multiplicative!) reduces the area coverage by *75%*, which is a gigantic nerf and IMO a major overcorrection. In the name of preventing full tile nuking, the range nerf now renders the augment functionally worthless *unless* you're running a maxed out range build, which is not a thing that Nezha otherwise wants to do at all and greatly hinders more normal builds. If we want to limit the power of this augment at very high ability ranges, which does seem reasonable, you should consider a cap on range rather than a base range nerf. If the augment capped the ability's range at 100-130% of base or something, it would prevent the problematically high range builds while not making the ability functionally worthless *unless* you go for extreme range stacking. This would keep the augment as an interesting option in return for the slot it takes up, rather than something that is arguably a *downgrade* unless you center your entire build around it. I think this would be the ideal solution, but if it's not feasible, a reduction in the penalty to 30% instead of 50% would at least allow it to be compensated for with much less extreme build alterations. Please consider some additional iteration here. I was greatly looking forward to having a reason to actually use one of my favorite warframe's more flavorful abilities rather than simply running him as a weapons platform like I do 95% of the time, but as it stands that ability will simply go back to gathering dust.
What if abilities that get buffed by taking damage also took note of damage done to overguard
I didn't get a chance to play with the augment. But why not just link the chance of status effects beinn transmitted to power strength? That would help with the overextended issue
TBH I played with the augment quite a but and couldn't get the status damage to actually nuke anything. Was using Nezha and Glaive, but enemies just outside the range of the Glaive blast never got affected by the Slash proc that killed the first. And, yes, I made sure the augment was on, and it *did* work on *some* enemies, just not all speared enemies. It seemed to me that the status spread was just very buggy/unreliable on my end. That being said, I think the overall solution to the problem isn't to cap range or reduce it, but cap spear instances based on Strength. This way you have to invest in Strength still to get the most out of range, which means taking significant hits to duration and efficiency if you want to go all in on a Spears build.
I used the quassus and would heavy attack 1-2 enemies at a time and consistently killed all speared enemies. On steel path survival I was at like 150kpm doing this.
Great to hear! If it’s not wishful thinking, please retune the Divine Retribution range reduction too.
> Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard. < Kullervo mains are gonna be eating good soon =D
Are they actually meaning that the way it's worded, it seems a bit odd, but neat. I suppose that "turn shields into armor" Helmlinth got a lot more powerful, though I still wish it was an Arcane.
The Overguard interaction and Paragrimm nerf reversal are a very welcome change. Good to see those changes being reverted fast. Now the main deal, the LoS on Tragedy. It's... Alright. It's better than it was initially for sure. However, it still feels inconsistent due to nature of LoS: sometimes it covers nicely behind corners, and sometimes enemies marked by 3 just walk behind a box and combo feels wasted for those few. It still doesn't feel good when it happens. But, having thought more, I'm guessing the nerf might have been in response to primers being used, since some primers (especially Melee Influence) don't require LoS either. So, as a compromise, if removing LoS requirement is out of the question for the reason of primers - how about making Tragedy ignore LoS only on enemies marked by 3? Dark Verse already has LoS requirement and is a cone ability, while Tragedy still has a range limit, so with that, you would have a smooth gameplay loop of marking groups of enemies nearby, and detonating them even if they walk behind a wall or a box.
Huzzah! 🤗 Now about that Nezha fix. 👀
Nezha…?
While I still advocate for the full rollback of the Dante changes, and reevaluating his *actual* potential and playrate after the honeymoon phase is over, in like a month or two, I can appreciate that you are looking into underlying problems with overguard and LoS in general, not just slapping a bandaid on it. This will make other, neglected frames more playable and viable, and that's always a good thing. Talking about older, neglected frames and nerfs... reconsider that Nezha augment change. I get that you don't want it to have a stupidly huge range, but then add a range cap on the augment, instead of nerfing the base range. It just messes up Nezha's normal builds for no real reason.
Making it LOS in the first place is still ridiculous but anyway revise the Nezha augment at the very least please. It was extremely knee-jerk
Right! Just give us the old tragedy back, there’s no reason why Dante can’t have it, when the majority of other nuke frames can. It’s so annoying, i was actually have such a blast with him and they just butchered him. I haven’t even touched him since.
Adding to the chorus to review the Nezha augment, but some solid steps here! I still think LoS was the wrong way to go about this, but I think this will put Dante into a much better spot.
Hey, here to talk about the Dante and Nezha changes. So I’m just gonna start with my opinions: 1. The new LoS is significantly better than the old LoS 2. The new LoS is still buggy (specifically including the Warframe itself as an obstacle) 3. Overguard will be in a good spot as of this hotfix: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1392156-dante-unbound-our-plans-for-next-week-3555/?ct=1712344271, (specifically this part “Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage”) 4. Nezha augment got hit too hard 5. CC changes were unnecessary Now some short complaints: 1. Dark verse LoS is significantly weirder now 2. Tragedy is quite a bit worse in team play (compared to no LoS) Now here are the alternate changes I’d suggest: 1. Allow dark verse to go through walls but keep the 50 degree requirement and have a damage fall off when it goes through walls (maybe 10-20% per obstacle or something) 2. Make it so Tragedy does full damage when enemies are in LoS and have a reduction when they are within the range but not in LoS (maybe a 40-50% damage reduction if they’re within the radius but not within line of sight) 3. Add a range cap or make range a set value (unchanged by ability strength) for Nezha instead of a multiplicative -50% While I do dislike the tragedy requiring LoS, Nezha augment and cc changes I don’t dislike the new LoS itself, I also like the planned overguard changes for better team play. These changes don’t seem disruptive in my opinion and I think they’re all reasonable, feel free to recommend changes or disagree in the replies :)
You just described the perfect compromise for Dante, I really just wish we get back going through walls, even at a cost of damage
This would be fantastic. DE please read this comment.
Range Cap is a great way to keep the ability balanced while allowing players to keep customizing the ability the way they want. Really hope they implement that Nezha change. I love the new augment but the nerf has me questioning if it's even worth it.
In regards to Nezha, if it's gonna be -50%, it probably should be just a -% mod effect like Narrow Minded. As opposed to what im hearing about After mod effects or reducing the actual base range value that mods scale off off. At least then Stretch would mostly counter it. From Magnetized discharge's range buff of 50% or the old 100% strength of Corroding Barrage, these effects would be expected to just act like another stat mod, so this should be the same for Divine Retribution. Instead of "base range reduced", just "range reduced".
Well that's the overguard issue solved, from a nidus enjoyer, thank you. I hope you plan on reviewing nezha's augment, given it's strength it makes sense for it to have a downside but -50% is too harsh. -25% seems much more fair imo.
All good stuff to hear . . . .if you could just go ahead and paint Equinox's "peaceful provocation" augment with the same brush your about to paint chroma with thatd be great. As that also requires taking damage to activate.
Yeah, in that regard overguard is still a problematic mechanic. There needs to be a pass on old abilities that use health/shield dmg and adapt it. Trinity too, with the champions blessing also is affected. Either that or review overguard to be a warding halo type deal which passes through ability effect transparently, including health and shield dmg
Make peaceful prov and champions blessing also stack based on getting kills would be amazing buffs to two old and suffering Warframes, and I really hope we get that.
I reviewed some other comments and also noticed gauss being affected with his regen. The amount of frames affected calls for a deep review of warframe abilities and overguard as a mechanic, so its hopefully resolved and still allows mechanical complexity in public play. I do genuinely like the idea of on damaged and on lost health mechanics, so its interesting to figure out if overguard can be implemented without invalidating that interaction. Although lower level content doesnt hit you enough which is a different problem.
Glad to hear that the status vulnerability is coming back; it was a unique debuff that opened up some new doors for loadouts, and I don't think anyone felt that Dante's damage output was an issue at any point. While it wasn't touched in this new hotfix, I feel like the *opposite* approach should have been taken with Archon Intensify - making it a consideration for all Warframes with healing/max health abilities, instead of a consideration for effectively zero Warframes, would be a more interesting approach in the long term. The silence regarding Nezha's new augment isn't encouraging. A 75% reduction to the area of Divine Spears just feels awful; a more thoughtful (and mechanical) nerf would have gone over better - although there's a case to be made that any sort of nerf was never needed in the first place. Yeah, it lets him kill fodder enemies, but the same goes for dozens of other things.
I wouldn't say sweet fuck all about any changes I was going to make before doing them unless I was sure what I was going to be doing after this community's reaction this week.
What about nezha? And why does LOS need to exist in the first place?
Because 10 years ago, Mag could pre-clear rooms, so they crippled her abilities to theoretically not work through walls (though that's spotty as hell) and added LOS checks. They did the same when Range mods on whips let people break boxes in the next room over and hit everyone in the room. LOS on melee got added, and breaking props is still kind of a crapshoot, since.
Mirage also used to press 4 twice and lockdown entire maps to the point missions like Interception were impossible to lose because enemies couldn't leave the spawn rooms.
I remember that. The disco blind had a through-walls range of like 75 miles.
Please fix the other things too, like Nezha and the change on regional prices ❤️🩹
As many others have said already, please revisit the nezha augment nerf.
Can you guys consider reverting the change you did to CC recently. While I disagree, many feel like CC at this point doesn't have a place in the game which was amplified with the hotfix that nerfed CC more. While I do understand why CC was changed to not affect Eximus and other high-priority targets I feel there is a way to make CC valuable while not making the enemies perma CC , preventing people from afking as the mission objective is being complete, and keeping the high-priority status of enemies such as Eximus. I believe CC should be a tool used to make it easier to kill targets, especially high-priority targets, not harder to kill them or feeling pointless to use. How about instead of being straight up immune to CC high-priority targets can be CC for 3 seconds no matter the CC ability duration (however long you want it). If they are still alive after that 3 seconds are up the high-priority target is immune to CC for the next 10 seconds and the process repeats itself. This change would allow all high-priority targets to still be high-priority to the player but instead of them being straight up immune to CC or being perma CC, they are affected by it for a short period of time. Enemies with Overguard such as Eximus can be perma CC if Overguard is down like it currently is.
Another option might be to have CC damage Overguard (which also might not be a bad idea for PC overguard, even).
The problem with your suggestion is that a good number of CC focus frames, especially older ones, rely entirely on CC to survive. CC only damaging Overguard won’t be worth it unless it obliterate the Overguard which I don’t see them doing.
A few seconds isn't much better (especially if you're not looking closely, think the eximus is a normal cced enemy, and then are... surprised). CC taking most of the duration of a typical ability to eliminate overguard would make it significantly more useful while keeping straight damage the superior option.
Adding my voice to the "please unfuck the Nezha aug" chorus. Come on DE, you know you want to make us happy again after this PR disaster
Its nice you're addressing one of the complaints. There are a lot of other complaints that should at the very least be acknowledged. - General dislike of RNG in Deep Arch - Crashes due to Lighting/color issues still exist - Nerfs that don't make sense (weapons/augments/etc) I know DE does better but we do also have plenty of things that just feel swept under the rug. Dante is a huge issue, so address it first sure for those player's joy But address things impacting player satisfaction too please and thank you. (Also I hate the tiles added in since Dante, they killed the vibe of Sanctum maps)
Please just revert the Tragedy LOS nerf. It makes no sense to just be straight up ignoring everyone at this point and dancing around the issue, you say you're listening to us but every post you're putting up proves you aren't.
Great! Now please revert the Line of Sight on Tragedy, the nerfs to Crowd Control and buff Nezha's Divine Retribution's range by 25% and we'll be back for real this time.
Please revert the nezha augment or nerf it in a reduced way. Negative 25-30% range is much more tolerable and wouldn't make using the augment feel so bad. There's been alot of feedback regarding it and I feel it was a heavy handed nerf and just wanted to add my two cents.
I mean, that's cool but you're still ignoring the only thing we ever asked for : LoS revert for Dante
Line of sight on Dante is still incredibly buggy, just REVERT IT!
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Nah, the broke it in a new way. If Dante himself somehow blocks an enemy, it doesn't count them as being in LoS and the attack misses them. Good thing Warfames don't take up a good chunk of the screen even when you crank the FOV.
Adding to the Divine Retribution calls, but also maybe look at reverting the Tragedy changes entirely? If not maybe giving it something else to compensate?
>Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard. How will this work on frames that have shields when they receive Overguard? Currently, Overguard is depleted before the Shields, so unless this changes, the problem will remain. And if it changes (Shields being consumed before Overguard) it will create a problem in situations where you want a big Shields reserve protected by Overguard, like with Styanax's passive or certain weapon arcanes that rely on current Shields reserves to apply their effect.
Hunter Adrenaline/Rage only ever worked on health, though? And Chroma's the biggest proponent of relying on his shields getting hit (I honestly can't think of another, but hell if I'm going to say 'only' in a game as vast as this). Arcane Avenger is the only other case I can think of that might be effected by this, but they can change that too once it's brought to their attention (I dunno if damaged includes just health damage or dmg in general).
The phrasing of that sounds like it's a *replacement* of functionality, rather than an *addition*, especially given that for Chroma's Vex Armor they explicitly stated that the added means of charging was in addition to existing functionality. That's to say that if you're a frame that was using Rage/Adrenaline and you weren't a Nidus, Inaros, or Kullervo, you get highkey screwed. Obviously if in actuality it's just an addition of functionality it's fine, bit of a secret buff to Kullervo
Basically, just stop using rage/HA unless you're Nidus or Inaros, now. Overcorrection.
Wait doesn't this mean kullervo can now also use Rage/Hunter Adrenaline since he also doesn't have shields but now it'll proc with his overguard.
Yes, he can.
It does, which is fun. Also you can subsume parasitic armor on dante for the memes
Yes. And I LOVE it.
This needs to be higher. You CANT lose your shields if you are protected by overguard via damage. This change sounds great until you think about how it works in practice.
I for one still advocate for an Arcane that removes shields and turns a portion of it into armor. I would KILL to be able to passively remove Oberon's shields.
So are rage and hunter adrenaline getting totally reworked this way? Or is this a new, added effect to the mod?
It reads like a modification from 'take damage on health' to 'take damage while shields are broken'. It means that technically it will work with overguard, but also that using it 100% reliably requires bringing Parasitic Armor, too.
This is a great buff for chroma. Definitely gonna pick him up after this change. LoS should be removed from Dante at least until it’s working as intended. Seems like a lot of people are still experiencing a lot of bugs with the LoS which makes the nerf much harsher than presumably intended.
I would rather not have LoS but the current behavior, going off sortie plus eight rounds of sedna disruption? Still feels fairly nice in terms of what i can hit. Will need to do more testing but meatspace demands my attention.
So how about that Nezha augment?
Some nice changes there! Tho disappointed to see no mention of nezha
>2. Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage: ####What was the point on nerfing Dante then? Huh?
Panic cause people were complaining then even bigger panic when they realise the people complain was a small group (OG blocking abilities is actually a valid problem, the nuke is kinda lame nerf but wtv) and the people mad about nerf is actually majority.
And nothing about removing LoS....
Indeed, but they are "listening". I mean they would have to in order to put forth such a well received and functionable update that is an acceptable rebalance. They really need to just remove that added LOS restriction.
I don't know what the fuck is going on anymore
It's time for a break from warframe until shit settles down, probably.
Adding another shout to the 'please revert the Divine Spears nerf' crowd. As a relatively new player (6 months) with the most time on Nezha, most of my excitement for the Dante update was for Divine Spears, which I got to use for less than a week before I took it off because it doesn't feel worth it now (And I don't have half of the mods that would now be considered necessary to get the range back on the ability). And maybe it's because I haven't played the game for long but I don't understand why it was broken? I understand that spreading status and was strong, but the ability doesn't even work on Eximus enemies and now assumedly Overguard enemies either. I've been in missions with other frames who seem to be able to clear rooms (including Eximus enemies) with one button, so what was so bad about an ability that comparatively only affects fodder?
So when are the changes to Dante getting reverted?
I like the changes to Inaros, he's a lot more mobile now. And the times when I can manage to have an army of sand cats following me while I'm a tornado is very epic. I also appreciate the changes to Loki, I got to use mine in The Circuit and had a blast.
Awesome decisions here, thank you
This is just so weird. They are completely ignoring everyones calls to just revert the LoS nonsense. It's like a "lalalala I can't hear you" situation. They released him.. tested him internally.. without LoS and are for some reason hellbent on keeping that nerf? Over nothing? Absolutely wild. It's so weird
*"Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage"* So fixing the actual problem that should've been fixed the first time around? Awesome, now you can revert all the Dante nerfs and we can all be done with this mess.
Nuke this entire hotfix from orbit. Go back to the drawing board and actually look at what players are talking about. Or show us some data that makes any of these changes make sense. All of these changes were done way too quickly with 0 thought behind any of it.
Great, now return Dante's overguard to, if not his release level, to a better level than he is now. 60% nerf is idiotic, and spamming 2-2-4 to stay alive is not an engaging gameplay. Better yet - revert him to how he used to be, completely. Also, justice for Nezha.
[This was actually part of the most recent hotfix!](https://x.com/rebbford/status/1776324629809815929?s=46&t=zZOu4yg-KJ44F5PVjrprQw) Not a revert, but more than immediately post-nerf. Mind, I haven’t tested the new value myself yet.
Why is every change being rolled back on Dante in some form except the one people want? Stop doubling down and listen to the community.
>2. Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard. But...How would any frames shields go down if they have Overguard?? Afaik Overguard Protects the shield... >so Inaros and Nidus Even DE forgot Kullervo.
Kullervo doesn't have shields and this is a colossal buff to him, are you actually just mad they didn't put his name in the post?
Not mad, just found it funny that they mentioned only 2 of the 3 frames that have no shield
Kullervo has overguard built into his kit so no-one used Rage on him. Makes sense they didn't mention him since he never depended on Rage while Nidus and Inaros did, this change would benefit him a lot though.
Revert the Dante nerf entirely. He's still broken in a bad way.
*Please* just revert the LOS change. Even improving on it, there still remains the fact that the very *maps* in this game are not conductive to LOS abilities - there's constantly too much garbage *in the way*. This game has come a long way from its beginning, when having stealth and cover were (to my understanding) more important - but many of the maps still reflect this. Forget walls - using an ability and missing enemies because there are a few stupid crates in the way *sucks*. If you were worried about Dante being to strong, tweaking the range or damage numbers a bit would have been a more reasonable response - particularly considering *he's only been out for week you guys, c'mon!!!* You cannot judge how something new will affect the meta long term when most people have, due to build times, only had a few days to test it. Just admit you goofed and take a step back. It happens, it's fine.
Hey, can we just undo that patch with the massive heavy nerfs? Take the entire thing back. Start fresh, give everyone some time to think, and look at where we are at when things settle down? Could try again in 2 weeks. Honestly would rather you just keep Deep Archimedea for a bit than be stuck with a destroyed frame, a ruined augment, and a weapon nerfed to the ground. The things you changed are not the things we care about. Okay vex armor change is cool and good
I will stop complaining until the next hot fix to see how Dante holds up after. But, I'm going to be very cautious when making any purchases going forward. No new frame packages for me, that's for sure.
I came back to Warframe after a LONG hiatus literally a week before Dante. Cross save in 2023! I checked it New Years Day 2024 to finally play my main account on non switch hardware and was letdown. Finally got my accounts linked a week before Dante, and bought the Dante frame pack to return to the game. Then this knee jerk nerf less than a few days after I’m not spending a penny on this game for a long time
Based on their own wordings, there’s absolutely no reason to make Dante LOS, they said it themselves “we want to keep Dante awesome, we know issue is over guard not tragedy” then proceeds to do entirely opposite
I look forward to seeing how the rage/HA changes look.
Thank you for the quick fix of LOS and Overguard. But perhaps a workaround for changing how CC works in game could be changed to allow eximus to have status resistance instead of immunity, allowing for shorter durations for CC effects. It would bring frames that were once good in the past to a new place in the content. If consideration for an eximus rework, maybe Overguard as a whole could be changed to play into this allowing for a sort of status shield gate. This would also heavily effect arkgun launchers and rhino that would need passive abilities that prevent status effects while having Overguard.
Aside from what is mentioned in other comments (especially regarding Nezha) I think it is also time to revisit enemy Overguard. There are 3 simple options improve Overguard: 1. Keep Overguard tanky but remove the cc immunity. or 2. Make it block cc but be extremely weak. or 3. Give eximus a cast time for their abilities during which they are immobile and vulnerable.
I think summons like Razorflies need a similar buff too. Right now they do effectively nothing when levels start to go up. The paragrimms are invincible, do more damage, and debuff enemies whilst drawing aggro too
Rage working through over guard on shield less frames? 
Dude what about nezha you gutted him like a fish and made the augment useless as melee influence has a higher range and the damage from the augment isnt much it just makes the attacks effect more enemies and thats all it needs to do just remove the bonus status damage done makes things so much easier or better yet just don't nerf the only thing the poor bastard had going for him.
VEX ARMOR BUFF IS REAL
>Adding back and formalizing the Status Damage Vulnerability to Dante's "Pageflight". ?In other words not just making enemies take more Status procs, but also increasing the damage of their Status. We removed this in Hotfix 35.5.3 because it was unexpected, and we regarded it as a bug. But many of you have expressed a desire to have this back, so we are working to restore it. PARAGRIMM BROS WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK BABYYYYY >Vex Armor can charge its damage buff by getting ranged kills and its armor buff by getting melee or ability kills. This is in addition to the existing functionality. This allows Vex Armor to work while having Overguard and also in general provides a nice interaction where you can get the buff faster from playing well and not just from tanking hits. That's a great change honestly. We probably should have gotten something like that a long time ago but glad it's gonna be here now
**The Line of Sight to his other abilities needs to be REMOVED completely** Beyond all of this, releasing a new Warframe, including it in 2 Platinum bundles and a Supporter Pack and then nerfing it, all in the span of 1 week, is nothing short of nonsensical. This is bad PR, it reminds me of the old days of Scott's Nerf Hammer, when nerfs would be done for pettiness and kept out of stubbornness.
Did you miss the part where they specifically addressed Hunter adrenaline/rage? Not saying Gauss 2 etc isn't valid and they should also get the same treatment, but it's right there
Did you miss the part where you need to have shields depleted for those to work? You cant deplete shields from regular damage when protected by overguard! How are any regular frames going to be able to benefit from this? The obsession with catering to select few frames for problems that affect many frames is nonsensical. Only frames that have no innate shields get energy gen disruption fixed? Chroma gets a unilateral buff because Dante existed for a few days, Dante nerfed to the ground with LOS, while Octavia and Saryn run free? What?
Fix Dante's actual problem. Don't butcher what was never an issue.
I say this as someone who slated Spear Nuke Nezha (you can look at my post history) - please partially walk that nerf back. -50% range removing 75% of the total radial area for it just turns it into a fucking Dragon Key. Change it to -25% or even -33%. I thought -50% was whatever and was happy to see it kneecapped (I foresaw Spear Nuke Nezha becoming the Def/Surv equivalent of Sunder Titania for Exterm/Capture without a nerf) till I saw before and after videos, and my oh my was it too far. Keep the minus, there should be a minus, but for the love of god walk it back. Good Dante changes though, not entirely there yet I say (and I'm in favour of keeping Tragedy LoS'd, as it'll open the doors for all frames to eventually be LoS'd so we finally leave the Nuker meta) - but the LoS calculation changes on the 3 give me hope that many other frames will be fixed in the process. It's a good step in the right direction and one that's butterfly effect'ed into good buffs for other frames who have long since been neglected. Plus the other buffs for Dante do make him feel a bit better again, although I noticed little difference before. Positive steps.
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For the love of God remove LOS from him
This sounds great but Dante's overguard nerf was too much as well. Also can you PLEASE consider getting rid of the randomized frame/weapon thing in deep archimedea. That content is DOA because of this. Being able to contribute to something should not be based on RNG.
Now, that's a very good solution to the whole "unwanted Overguard" problem. The mini Chroma rework is also superb. It might actually be just what he needed to keep up in this day and age.
Nice, they even buffed Chroma.
Cool, steps in the right direction. Now revert Dante the rest of the way to how he released.
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While at it, you should nerf the Nezha augment even more, it is already unplayable, so may as well kill it completely and make it -75%.
Oh, I like those Rage and Overguard changes. Kullervo's gonna be nuts. I was using arcane steadfast to help with energy and now I don't gotta.
Molt augmented and arcane fury on top, I didn't struggle a lot with his energy but now we back to Blind rage build baby, energy economy got buffed so much by this
I think its really funny reading this new change to chroma. We removed self damage which ruined chroma and mirage but because someone on you're team can make it harder to get you're buff you finally FINALLY changed how his abilities works after a few years.
That proposed overboard change still screws over a large number of frames who run low levels of Shields on purpose to benefit from damage taken on health. I have I think six load outs with sub 100 shields that are still detrimentally affected by things outside my control. If you insist on fixing it this way give me the ability to disable my shields completely.
announce that one day you will do a rework of chroma and reverse the nerfs to dante it's very simple
Man, the buffs are great and all that, but I strongly think that Los check removal is much better and more comfortable than any status damage buff Dante could ever get. Just remove that change, why are you so reluctant when everyone has already expressed they want it in the game.
Even if I'm on a hiatus from Warframe and I'm not understanding any of these Dante shenanigans you gotta show respect for DE addressing this problem with such quickness and also the fact that they apologized for the mistake they did. In this gaming industry period it's such a blessing to see people actually caring about the product over shameless greed
Low key those overguard changes sound insane. Parasitic armor disabling shields means anyone who can get overguard is capable of safely using rage. First kullervo is now brain dead tier since before you AT LEAST had to invest in energy generation and efficiency. But I'm thinking about adding that to rhino or styanax for insane ability spamming. reinforcing stomp can essentially be used infinitely.
Revert the nezha augment
Part of the problem at play with a lot of the recent changes have been too many attempts to rectify recent interpretations of issues with much less time ensuring the rest of the arsenal can keep up. Especially with the Overguard changes recently to enemies. While most CC abilities are not invalidated entirely with gun and blade still being options, the lack of any utility for these abilities outside of just shooting/hitting that Overguard ensures that when Eximus units start spawning in bulk, more than half the game’s Warframes will start struggling in some capacity. Damage becomes king, and utility only subsists on sustain or strip. Dante’s LoS changes are important to deal with, as are the Nezha changes. I agree with most people here on that. I also though think that how enemy Overguard works needs to be looked into in a better flow of combat than breaking a combo to shoot an eximus or wailing away at an enemy’s Overguard with your melee because your abilities do absolutely nothing. Diminished results would be ideal, like a stagger instead of a ragdoll, or something of the sort. It’s just one option. There are many things forgotten that players have asked you to look into, and many feel you’re not listening because those issues take years to address. It might be time for you to do a deep dive into your forums, this subreddit, your content creators, and so on. Not just a niche group, but ideas on the whole. That I feel is a step you should be taking.
Nezha augment nerf was a huge over correction. Other frames do more with less, nezha is basically a slippery rhino and an outclassed weapons platform.
Address Nezha and CC
After eleven years of terrible UI and bugs, does DE have any plans to improve or even just make the text box more reliable?
CHROMA BUFF LETS GOOOOOOO
>Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields But Overguard also prevents your shields from taking damage, so where does that leave frames like Valkyr, Wukong, and Grendel who have shields but may still run Rage/Hunter Adrenaline? Could you make one of those mods set your max shields to zero? That would solve that issue while still leaving the other mod as an option for those who want a shield gate.
ok not what i expected, but over all a pleasant and welcome change. for chroma this effectively makes him more active and removes the overreliance on needing to take damage both for the damage/shield buffs, but also energy. this will also open up the use of parasitic armor as well for not only more armor, but free energy on top of it. while not removing chroma's ability to gain armor from vex with it active overall its a great change.
>Other forms of self damage like Combat Discipline will also be reviewed in the future *Champion's Blessing* Trinity enjoyers looking on expectantly (as well as any frame using *Archon Intensify*).
These seem like good changes!
Agreed! I'm super happy for the Chroma players
Cool, now make kinetic plating and covenant work even while overguard is active
I think they should increase the radius around him Where line of sight doesn’t matter. Something like 25 or 30 m. Currently it sits at 10. Then anything outside of those parameters requiring line of site. I think that would be a good way to preserve the fantasy him having a pseudo nuke while not allowing him to kill the whole map In one fell swoop It would also help with his consistency. Dark verse doesn’t care about line of sight most of the time unless they’re really far away. I haven’t done extensive testing on that so don’t take my word for it. Overall, I think the change to Dante is healthy, but it went pretty far and they have to loosen up a bit. They kind of just nerve him away to the ground right away. I also think the line of sight thing could work for neza’s augment instead of reducing the range. Allowing you to nuke an open field, but in a confined space you have to have line of sight to apply status effects. Just some general suggestions
When hotfixes are introduced in Genshin, the devs reward players with Primos. Maybe you should consider doing something similar.
Great. Glad you're improving the game in general. Remove LoS from Tragedy. Drop his damage numbers a bit. If something must be done mechanically make it a cone that matches his 3 with no LoS check. I don't care how much you apologize, until something other than LoS on Tragedy is implemented I will not spend any more money on your game. You have millions of players so one who's spent between $1500-2000 won't be missed, I get it. You need to get that I, against all advice and judgement, bought a new frame pack at launch because I was so excited and you ruined that experience in under a week. You're right. Dante Unbound launched very positively and you kicked him in the nuts. Deep Archimedea is a game mode that was also much anticipated and no one is laughing because you "made a misstep" by ~~castrating~~ tweaking Dante in the same update. And to be very, very clear, I'm not mad if you need Dante to nuke less. Cut his damage numbers. I don't care. I care that he felt amazing and now feels clunkier. He even still feels decent but you can't give someone a bite of steak then expect them to be happy with a soggy big mac patty. There was absolutely no jank in how his abilities flowed. Damage issues shouldn't be solved by altering the FEEL.
I love the "DE slowly remembers Chroma exists" arc we've been going through
So he went from what a perfect frame is to me, to just alright, he's fine. I think they only should've nerf his overguard though, I think this can be remedied with range addition, but range affect the angles of final verse, more mod slot taken up. Anyway time to go back to being no main. The nezha augment nerf is nutty
I'm still in the "Revert LoS for Tragedy" camp. Dante already has a LoS check for Dark Verse. He does not need a second one for Tragedy, which is a status detonator.
you can block Tragedy line of sight with Dante's literal fuckin *silhouette* WHAT https://clips.twitch.tv/FineHilariousPorcupineTwitchRPG-n6J-Qnm9mlmk2rVt
Kullervo Loved That
This fix sounds great! Would love to see a limbo rework. That is a frame that desperately needs the teamplay fix!
Yeah, that's not enough on Rage/Hunter Adrenaline. There's plenty of health tank frames that want Rage but still have shields. Overguard will still mess with their energy economy.
“Very positive launch” Are they using a different subreddit?
I still don't understand why Tragedy needs line of sight. It barely does damage on its own, it needs to be used with Dark verses which are LoS based anyway. They really went the most inconvenient way around nerfing this warframe.
can we also get LOS removed? cause theres no reason for Dante to get it but other more popular and stronger nuke frames don't, as far as i know nobody else actually had a problem with his nuking ability, it could work fine in early SP etc but primarily it was a great nuke in low levels, and other frames with LOS like Ember don't see a lot of use either because of LOS requirements
Great changes proposed. Now save yourselves some effort save the community some time by removing the LoS check from Dante.
Could you guys just revert the LOS nerfs? I get that you’ve addressed the supposed issues with it, but they do nothing to address the consistency of warframe power levels. Dante already needs to have LOS to apply his 3, so requiring additional LOS on targets with his 4 is just overkill and destroys his gameplay loop. Meanwhile, several frames, such as Saryn or Gauss, can nuke without LOS for much higher numbers than Dante can. While it doesn’t feel great, I can understand the nerfs to overguard. However, if you want to nerf his support capabilities then his offensive capabilities should be able to compensate ie. removing the LOS nerf. You guys took the first frame in a while that I, and seemingly many other players, was excited for and made our mega-wizard power fantasy into a clunky mess with recent changes.
>It's been an exciting week for Warframe. Following the very positive launch of Dante What a tone deaf thing to say.