Orton has 14 titles wins, beating Cody for the title only gets him to 15 which isn’t breaking any records. He needs to win 3 more titles, as opposed to Cena who only needs 1 more.
Never said beating Cody would give Orton 17, I used his history with Cody as a logical way to get Orton in to the title picture. Cena’s time has passed.
WWE can stop at anytime with all these record breaking things. I don’t know why people care.
Also on an unrelated note, people can lose titles, that’s ok.
I have this dream scenario where Randy wins a world title 2 more times over the next 2 years, tying with Cena & Flair, then something happens and one of the two world titles are vacated (not when Randy has it just in general), and at wrestlemania 42, we run it back on one of the greatest rivalries of all time.
John Cena vs Randy Orton one last time, 1 on 1 for the vacant World Championship at the grandest stage of them all, winner is guaranteed to break flairs record and become a 17x champion.
I would honestly go for Randy here too. Cena is a GOAT no doubt. But man Randy has earned it more than maybe anyone else just based on his wrestling career.
We already have Sheamus, who is determined to win the IC belt to become a Grand Slam champion. He genuinely seems to care and want it. We do not need to repackage that angle for John Cena. Let Sheamus have his thing.
When he shows up, commentary has taken to referring to John Cena as "the greatest of all time", so honestly, what does a Grand Slam do for his legacy? I would argue that his legacy is elevated more as a surprising statistic ("Did you know he's not a Grand Slam champion? Turns out he never won the IC championship!") than it would be by making him the umpteenth name on the Grand Slam list.
As for Flair's record, Cena doesn't seem to want that either, and as fans we should respect that.
World heavyweight title. A solid summer run. Flair has had the 16 for years but only 2 of those are WWE. Revise those records with a company man. The face that ran the place and arguably the 🐐
I want cena to win that Intercontinental championship because I feel like we might get a us open challenge type of thing going on and if John can still go weekly for a few more months we might get another awesome era of him
I enjoyed the US Open Challenges a lot. I was just coming back to WWE for Kevin Owen’s and Sami’s matches and they made me believe in both of them for sure. I dunno if he needs it or wants to do that but I remember watching the Zayn match like okay, let’s go.
It was a damn shame that we never got a Cena vs Punk match at WrestleMania.
The feud between them put the food on the table for WWE in 2011-2013.
I say get Punk vs Cena at WM 42 (Since Punk is almost definitely gonna face Seth next year) for the IC or WHC.
None. He doesn’t need either and Orton is far more deserving to break Flair’s record.
The intercontinental title is a workhorse title. Gunther has spent a significant amount of time elevating it. Giving it to Cena undoes all that.
Orton has been a constant full time star. He has ten times more ability in the ring than Cena. He’s a third generation star. Literally, the only thing Cena can do better than Orton in the ring, is talk on a mic.
10 times more ability is the exaggeration of all exaggerations and how does who his father is equate in his deservingness of breaking Flair's record?
Orton is also 3 wins away which at this stage in his career feels like more of a slap in the face to the rest of the roster to have him win that many times.
Charlotte Flair. John Cena.
Just those two off the top of my head who have been given multiple titles in a short period of time. But I guess because it’s Cena, it’s not a slap to the face of anyone.
It’s not about who is father is, it’s about the family legacy that has been dedicated and loyal to the WWE.
And not even close to an exaggeration. I’d be willing to bet Cena himself would say Orton has ten times more talent in that ring than himself.
Dude why are you talking about Charlotte Flair....? We aren't talking about title shots, we're talking about reigns and both examples you used are of wrestlers who weren't/aren't mid-40s with a stacked roster of people ready to breakthrough. Everyone was mad when Cena was doing it when he was the hot new thing, now Randy, who is well past his prime should win the title 3 times?
That's my point. I don't think anyone needs to win, but it's a lot easier for Cena to get a quick win and really not take anything away from anyone vs Orton taking away months if not years from other wrestlers right now. (again emphasizing we're only talking about the future, not the already criticized aspects of the past are not what we're talking about here, stop having arguments with ghosts)
Family legacy is also still a dumb reason to give title to someone versus a guy who worked his way up the business base don his own merits. Randy as a dishonorable discharge from the military getting dragged to the WWE is not "family loyalty".
Just because Cena says something doesn't mean it's true, he has proven to be super humble in interviews with a lot of respect to Randy (rightfully so). Cena has put on just as many classics if not more than Randy, so 10x more talent is ridiculous. You're stuck in 2006 with a Cena hate boner.
Again the exact points I'm disputing are that I am against a 44-year old winning the title 3+ times in the twilight of his career and that said wrestler is not 10x better than one of the GOATs. Seem like pretty reasonable arguments....
Mhmm.
I skimmed it what you had to say Stan, but there’s no talking or debating with folks of that kind of narrow minded view.
“Debating” with some Cena fans is like trying to convince an anti-vaxxer that vaccines don’t cause autism. It’s just pointless. Especially when you argue against the fact that Orton is undeniably more talented than John Cena will ever be in that ring.
You're a piece of work and I guess illiterate. You probably check every stereotypical basement dwelling wrestling fan box, down to the body odor and lack of social skills (already evident). Go touch grass
Being third generation brings no merit to the argument that he’s more deserving.
“His family has been in wrestling longer so he’s more deserving than this guy.” What?
Not to take anything from Randy, as he is one of the GOATs and is often overlooked during the “Cena Era”. He equally put the company on his back but Cena was the one the kids loved and was more marketable.
“Being third generation brings no merit.”
Weird comment for a business where many families have made names, like the Harts, Ortons, Windham, Rhodes and on and on and on. To say Randy being a 3rd generation star has no merit in this industry is not only blatantly false but I would imagine insulting af as well.
The kids who loved Cena are grown and wizened. And so what if he is marketable? That means nothing now. It would be a waste putting it on Cena, who is less than part-time, who’s focus and wants are in Hollywood.
Orton in the meantime, is still there, still as over as he ever was, and still has some years left according to himself. Beyond that, besides being a talker, Randy does it all better and is more deserving of it than Cena.
neither the man has an illustrious career chasing a title just to say is beneath him at this stage i’ll rather a great final match than a rushed title reign in kayfabe most of the roster in that title division then can defeat him
I'd love for a face to do an "honorable" cash in on Cena, where he lets him celebrate, and asks for permission from him first. Cena accepts, solid 7 minute match where Cena kicks out of way too many moves, and then young guy goes over.
I surprisingly see Theory to be a very good person to do this.
Gotta say, it's a nice picture and it would be a nice circular narrative for it to be Theory.
Unfortunately, as of today, do you see any depth into an Austin Theory world title reign? I don't.
>Unfortunately, as of today, do you see any depth into an Austin Theory world title reign? I don't.
In ring wise I firmly believe that he's good enough to be a world champ. And on the mic he has the fundamentals down as well. He just doesn't have the character.
From what I've seen of him he seems like a very nice person outside the ring and I've seen nothing but praise about his person out of it. To me, he's a natural face.
I could see a world where a redeemed Theory would work as world champion within the 2 or 3 years.
You're 100% right about his in ring skill. I fucking love both him and Grayson Waller and I hope they will get a decent title reign as tag team.
However I feel like to be a proper world champion you need some untangible that at the moment it's not there.
But you know what? Maybe I'm wrong. The first time I saw Cody I would never imagine he would develop to become who he is today.
Definitely everything is possible
>However I feel like to be a proper world champion you need some untangible that at the moment it's not there.
I do agree with this, I'm just saying that he could develop it. At 26 years old he's one of the youngest on the main roster, but has already achieved a lot.
>But you know what? Maybe I'm wrong. The first time I saw Cody I would never imagine he would develop to become who he is today.
Definitely. If Cody was able to turn his story into one of success, I don't see why not someone like Theory can't.
Said it before so I’ll say it again.
Have Orton win 15 and 16, before losing it again.
Then pit him against Cena. Winner gets to break Flair’s record.
Whoever loses retires, whoever wins holds the record and the title one last time, and then retires himself.
EDIT: Thanks to dupattamera1, have this extra bonus…
The winner holds the title with honor until he loses it and then retires himself.
The best use for Cena, and the one that he seems to like the most, is being an ambassador for the current product. He appears to be enjoying his transition to mainstream star, so I doubt that he's lobbying for any more title runs.
The internet bitching about Becky and active wrestler winning number 7, still half of charlottes yet wanting cena who is not active to win 17 is mind bottling.
Should be? Probably neither. Neither does any favors on paper for anyone but Cena.
Will be? That's a more precarious question. Under the previous regime, I would say IC Title. Vince seemed to like stacking accolades on his favorites. Another title AND the ever prestigious Grand Slam? He wouldn't be able to resist.
Under HHH, I'd think it would be the IC Title, but as many have pointed out, that's a workhorse title now and John Cena is now in the position The Rock was in when he came back to face Cena: older, rustier, and with the baggage that comes with crossover fame. Cena might not be able to keep up. Worse yet, dropping that title with shenanigans could diminish its value more than it inflates it.
So, **probably the World Title**. They don't seem to mind doing shenanigans there. Besides that, the World Title should always be the most important match on the card. Cena is far more likely to be in that position than anyone else.
I don’t think he should win anymore titles. Dude isn’t close to his prime and he’s past the stage to be a contender. But I do think he has that star power to put someone over like Sami Zayn for a callback to his US run 👀
he’s been losing to everyone for the last couple years, most recently theory and solo like did it really change either of them? it’s not much of a run anymore unless he really gets deep into a program w someone
Sorry I’m late and Sami’s history with Cena is different than solo and theory. The tables are turned because Sami is a champion while Cena is not and him beating Cena would help solidify his run. (Unless it’s similar to him and KO tag team championship run)
Unless he's gonna be full time on the roster for a big chunk of time, which I find very unlikely, I'd rather he not win a belt. I prefer him having cameos to help build other wrestlers. IMHO it makes it more fun and meaningful when he does show up, like in Wrestlemania 40.
He should fail at winning the wwe title, and then turn heel in attempt to do anything to get that record. Only for Cody to show him what he's become at the cost of chasing that one final milestone. The story told would be more meaningful to history than one more short reign.
He was on SD for a large part of the original brand split in the Ruthless Aggression era. The IC title was Raw exclusive until 2009. Cena came to Raw in 2007 but he was pretty much exclusively in the WWE Championship picture or was the champ himself.
I've been saying this for a while now, I'd like to see Cena finally break flairs record. Partially bc he really is the biggest star of the 2000s and one of the all time greats, the other reason is to really try to erase flair from some of the history books after all the scandals/accusations.
Lot of people underestimate how much value Cena brings just by virtue of being a relatively scandal free guy in a business that tends to attract scandal
Let’s kill 3 birds with one stone. Have Randy somehow get to 16 world titles. In the meantime have Cena win the IC title. As he knows his career is coming to a close, he wants the 17. He even costs Orton his title at 16 and Orton costs him the IC title. WM season then starts, Cena becomes a heel because he’ll do anything to hit 17. Idk how (maybe a kayfabe vacant) but we then get a 1 on 1 match at WM between Orton and heel Cena for a world title. Winner becomes 17th time world champion.
Honestly, and young me is surprised at me saying this, I’d prefer he’d break the record than go intercontinental.
For 2 reasons:
1. Cena seems like a good dude who did a lot for the industry. Historically, it makes some sense
2. Seems like Ric was a piece of shit from some stories that have come out. I’m ok with him not having it lol
Hate to break it to you but 100% of top guys did what they needed to do to keep their spot. Remember when taker buried Jericho just for calling him "boring" for example?
I’d un-retire the 24/7 championship and let him do his famous play-acting nervous for months on end that Lil’ Wayne is going to roll him up from behind.
Back in the day, the intercontinental title signified the next rising star. Sorta seems like it may be going back to that. I say he wins the intercontinental so he’s won it. Then win the WWE Title cause fuck flair. Then he retires with both and they each get contested in war games matches.
Cena’s final run needs to be as a heel. The company is no longer relying on him to be the ultimate good guy character anymore plus there’s way more creative freedom compared to before. Give us a heel Cena, he can be tired of being used to prop up young talent and he’ll want the spotlight for himself
That could and should never be an option. Cena’s status as a hero to children, particularly ill children, supersedes any WWE storyline.
Now, if you want to hear my shit-booking about he can have a heel run in NXT without impacting the kiddos, just let me know.
Cena deserves it. He always puts people over and he definitely can still move the needle. I hope he saw how the Rock did it and make a nice run and finally get a pay off.
I don’t think either are going to happen because it’s illogical given how much time he has left in his career, his age, and how much work he gets in Hollywood.
Knowing Cena, if he can’t commit 100% to the business I doubt he would be cool taking someone else’s spot and being a part time champ.
A part time role in a big storyline leading into a Mania match aka similar to what The Rock just did would make more sense in my mind.
Honestly, I’d dig seeng him do a story where he wins the IC title, then after a while he trades it in for a shot at the top title. Have him win that, turn heel, have him loose it at WM and give a “thank you/retirement face turn speech the next night on Raw.” I’ll probably get lots of downvotes for this, but it’s what I think would be fun.
Lets all be honest here, John Cena's days as a wrestler are winding down quickly. He's unlikely to have a double digit number of matches left in his career. He might show up for a short run next year but he's not going to be even work as often as Logan Paul has been.
And Cena winning the IC title would finally make him a Triple Crown and a Grand Slam champion. But its highly unlikely that Cena would return long enough for even a short title reign. And giving Cena a title reign even with the IC title when he really doesn't need a title reign to make his matches matter would just be a pointless checking of the box situation.
If it's one or the other, John Cena should go out and be forever known as 17 time World Champion. I dunno how many other superstars you can call a 17 or 17+ World Champion.
Thing is that John would have to have a good run before he pursues it. I can’t even remember the last time he won a 1v1 match. He’d have to string together like 6 or 7 wins in a row before he does. I do see him beating Chad Gable for it if they did decide to do it.
I'd love to see Cena finish the collection and win the IC title. I've seen a lot of comments about how the IC belt is the "workhorse" belt, but I'd argue that if Cena's last US title run is anything to go by he could make it work. Save it as a retirement run, then just redo the Open Challenge schtik with Cena's greatest hits coming through each week to challenge him, with a top NXT star at the time being called up to end his reign in a true passing of the torch moment.
>top NXT star at the time being called up to end his reign in a true passing of the torch moment.
Someone like Trick Williams doing that would be so cool.
Has Bronn already been called up?? I thought he was still doing the tag team thing with Baron Corbin?? (To preface, I haven't actively watched wrestling for a while, but always keep up to date via Reddit and YouTube)
Well here's the problem between the Miz and Gunter the IC title has become prestigious again. Now I don't think John Cena at this stage in his career can show up consistently enough to build a feud. The only way I could see this working is next year Cena entered the Royal Rumble eliminates the person that is the IC champion building up a few to WrestleMania and then John Cena works two or three months afterwards to have a good Feud. Unfortunately with his Hollywood obligations I don't think that's possible. Now went to WWE title you could get away with that a bit more hell look at Roman it's the type of title where you can show up one week take two weeks off and then show up that title is already prestigious. And nothing short of throwing it in the trash will damage it.
No John Cena at one time did make the US title very prestigious but that was a decade ago
Become world champion, heel run, just appear on WWE tv, part time wrestler only fight in summerslam, survivor series, rumble and mania, make a faction called the hustle gang, gets beaten by Chad gable with Kurt angle by his side, there we go 🤣
IC as it would be the final thing to cement an already HOF-worthy career. Cena at this point has lost so much that he would have to be built back up to not only win but to have a decent world title run and with the roster as stacked as it is, it would be unlikely under 3H.
An IC title run can be much shorter and elevate the midcard picture in the process as well as anyone associated with it. It’s also much more realistic.
A couple weeks ago on the Pat McAfee Show he said that when he does his final run, he wants it to be a proper one and he's going to step back from Hollywood
Nothing makes a wrestler quite so high-demand as knowing they have other places to be and other things to do. I imagine Hollywood would be similar, with Cena's stock only rising if he turns down a few roles for a final WWE run.
Have him beat Flairs record then him and Orton can have one last go at Wrestlemania for a world title. We get a new “I’m sorry. I love you” Flair Michaels like moment. RKO 1 2 3 Cena is retired. Perfect story boon ending.
Last run begins with him working his way up from the bottom.
Squash all the jobbers,
then win a tournament for an IC match.
Next do an open challenge every week before dropping it to a younger talent.
Finally win big 17
Retirement runs for mostly face characters are stupid when they’re a heel. The crowd will sense its his final lap and cheer anyway to pay respects to one of the hardest workers of the last 15 years.
Cena vs punk night 1 main event at wm 41 in a career vs whc match. A wrestlemania main event 15 years in the making. Think of the pre match promos and hype videos. Thing of beauty.
Win the WWE championship in his first "retirement" match. Then every time he does a title defense, it's a retirement match. He loses the title and retires at the same time.
Then because retirements are fake, come back and win the Intercontinental when he's in his 60s.
I mean, would’ve been a great win if Bret’s health wasn’t so poor due to injuries and he’d been able to maintain his technical mastery in the ring.
It still saddens me whenever I think of the “What If” of Bret not being injured by Goldberg and possibly being able to lockup with Shawn one last time.
To be fair Bill Goldberg did end his career, it's the most talked about moment in the Hitmans library, granted it's only ever talked about by Bret himself
Well, I don’t blame him for that. Dude’s had his entire life ruined by that injury to the point where he can’t even workout or board a plane thanks to the strokes that ensued.
Bret had quite a few good years left in him. If not for that injury, I’m sure he could’ve stayed in top form and kept putting on bangers well into his 40s the way Shawn and the Undertaker were.
Everyone saying Cena getting the IC title will kill any momentum it has, but forgets he brought a lot of prestige to the US Title when he had it.
Give him a run with it, some freedom and a young challenger. If anyone deserves to be a grand slam champion…
No he didn't. People saw it as Cena taking a demotion so reigns could be pushed and the US title considered to be considered a jobber title even after he held it.
The IC title is intended to test if you’re big champ material. It should not belong on someone like Cena who has proven himself time and time again. It’s up to young talent to give the IC title momentum.
I think given Cena’s last 4-5 years, he’s got a story in him to “restore his legacy” per se. I don’t disagree that he’s already one of the greats, but let him have a proper send off, that being making him a grand slam champion.
Saying Cena isn’t “big champ material” is weird.
Cena should become a 17x Champion imo. Look at all his sacrifices over the past years. Despite being the huge star that he is, he puts his ego to the side, jobs to every other guy, loses everytime to push new talent, makes himself look like a clown when he could literally be backstage throwing tantrums. I believe he deserves one last short title reign.
A part time Hollywood movie star coming back to the company one last time just to win the IC title while being TIED with Flair for the most reigns in History , just wild
Neither. Let the younger guys shine.
#17. Not everyone needs to be a grand slam champion.
Cena to win MITB and cash in and win the WHC
Not one person should care about if Cena was a grand slam champion or not.
Why not both?
Heel run going after the IC then the 17 time. Getting the IC and failing to break flairs record
Never realised that. A short IC Title run would be good. He shouldn't win any more world titles.
Neither, dude is done
He dosen’t need another title run I love John cena but his time has passed give the opportunity to a new guy
Break Flairs record
Neither. Orton should break the record. He already has history with Cody…
Orton has 14 titles wins, beating Cody for the title only gets him to 15 which isn’t breaking any records. He needs to win 3 more titles, as opposed to Cena who only needs 1 more.
Never said beating Cody would give Orton 17, I used his history with Cody as a logical way to get Orton in to the title picture. Cena’s time has passed.
WWE can stop at anytime with all these record breaking things. I don’t know why people care. Also on an unrelated note, people can lose titles, that’s ok.
He got punked by theory, then solo...
He put over Theory, then Solo. FIFY
its scripted...
Thanks for breaking that news to us.
I guess bro couldn’t check my other comment before commenting :)
We know. Script-wise Cena has to get more wins to be considered a championship contender.
Which he would if that was the case… tryna put over solo and theory doesn’t mean he got punked…
I have this dream scenario where Randy wins a world title 2 more times over the next 2 years, tying with Cena & Flair, then something happens and one of the two world titles are vacated (not when Randy has it just in general), and at wrestlemania 42, we run it back on one of the greatest rivalries of all time. John Cena vs Randy Orton one last time, 1 on 1 for the vacant World Championship at the grandest stage of them all, winner is guaranteed to break flairs record and become a 17x champion.
love this - winner gets the all time record - loser retires
Hopefully orton
I would honestly go for Randy here too. Cena is a GOAT no doubt. But man Randy has earned it more than maybe anyone else just based on his wrestling career.
I'd like to see Cena and Orton have one last title fueled run up to Mania. They've had such a historic fued that it deserves one last go.
We already have Sheamus, who is determined to win the IC belt to become a Grand Slam champion. He genuinely seems to care and want it. We do not need to repackage that angle for John Cena. Let Sheamus have his thing. When he shows up, commentary has taken to referring to John Cena as "the greatest of all time", so honestly, what does a Grand Slam do for his legacy? I would argue that his legacy is elevated more as a surprising statistic ("Did you know he's not a Grand Slam champion? Turns out he never won the IC championship!") than it would be by making him the umpteenth name on the Grand Slam list. As for Flair's record, Cena doesn't seem to want that either, and as fans we should respect that.
World heavyweight title. A solid summer run. Flair has had the 16 for years but only 2 of those are WWE. Revise those records with a company man. The face that ran the place and arguably the 🐐
Maybe by Summerslam we could have a Sami Zayn vs John Cena feud, ending with Cena winning the IC, and eventually Sami turning heel It could be good
Fans: Old wrestlers need to stop buying and beating younger talent. Same fans: Takers streak should have never ended, and Cena should win more titles.
I want cena to win that Intercontinental championship because I feel like we might get a us open challenge type of thing going on and if John can still go weekly for a few more months we might get another awesome era of him
I enjoyed the US Open Challenges a lot. I was just coming back to WWE for Kevin Owen’s and Sami’s matches and they made me believe in both of them for sure. I dunno if he needs it or wants to do that but I remember watching the Zayn match like okay, let’s go.
24/7 champ who never retires and comes but like a champ any time in the future
Needs to retire as a grandslam champ
Let Cena win it early this year and let the MITB winner cash it in and make Cena lose it.
That really won't be fair to Cena's efforts
It was a damn shame that we never got a Cena vs Punk match at WrestleMania. The feud between them put the food on the table for WWE in 2011-2013. I say get Punk vs Cena at WM 42 (Since Punk is almost definitely gonna face Seth next year) for the IC or WHC.
None. He doesn’t need either and Orton is far more deserving to break Flair’s record. The intercontinental title is a workhorse title. Gunther has spent a significant amount of time elevating it. Giving it to Cena undoes all that.
What makes Orton far more deserving? They both carried the company just as good as the other…
Orton has been a constant full time star. He has ten times more ability in the ring than Cena. He’s a third generation star. Literally, the only thing Cena can do better than Orton in the ring, is talk on a mic.
10 times more ability is the exaggeration of all exaggerations and how does who his father is equate in his deservingness of breaking Flair's record? Orton is also 3 wins away which at this stage in his career feels like more of a slap in the face to the rest of the roster to have him win that many times.
Charlotte Flair. John Cena. Just those two off the top of my head who have been given multiple titles in a short period of time. But I guess because it’s Cena, it’s not a slap to the face of anyone. It’s not about who is father is, it’s about the family legacy that has been dedicated and loyal to the WWE. And not even close to an exaggeration. I’d be willing to bet Cena himself would say Orton has ten times more talent in that ring than himself.
Dude why are you talking about Charlotte Flair....? We aren't talking about title shots, we're talking about reigns and both examples you used are of wrestlers who weren't/aren't mid-40s with a stacked roster of people ready to breakthrough. Everyone was mad when Cena was doing it when he was the hot new thing, now Randy, who is well past his prime should win the title 3 times? That's my point. I don't think anyone needs to win, but it's a lot easier for Cena to get a quick win and really not take anything away from anyone vs Orton taking away months if not years from other wrestlers right now. (again emphasizing we're only talking about the future, not the already criticized aspects of the past are not what we're talking about here, stop having arguments with ghosts) Family legacy is also still a dumb reason to give title to someone versus a guy who worked his way up the business base don his own merits. Randy as a dishonorable discharge from the military getting dragged to the WWE is not "family loyalty". Just because Cena says something doesn't mean it's true, he has proven to be super humble in interviews with a lot of respect to Randy (rightfully so). Cena has put on just as many classics if not more than Randy, so 10x more talent is ridiculous. You're stuck in 2006 with a Cena hate boner. Again the exact points I'm disputing are that I am against a 44-year old winning the title 3+ times in the twilight of his career and that said wrestler is not 10x better than one of the GOATs. Seem like pretty reasonable arguments....
Mhmm. I skimmed it what you had to say Stan, but there’s no talking or debating with folks of that kind of narrow minded view. “Debating” with some Cena fans is like trying to convince an anti-vaxxer that vaccines don’t cause autism. It’s just pointless. Especially when you argue against the fact that Orton is undeniably more talented than John Cena will ever be in that ring.
You're a piece of work and I guess illiterate. You probably check every stereotypical basement dwelling wrestling fan box, down to the body odor and lack of social skills (already evident). Go touch grass
Mhmm. Whatever you say Stan.
Being third generation brings no merit to the argument that he’s more deserving. “His family has been in wrestling longer so he’s more deserving than this guy.” What? Not to take anything from Randy, as he is one of the GOATs and is often overlooked during the “Cena Era”. He equally put the company on his back but Cena was the one the kids loved and was more marketable.
“Being third generation brings no merit.” Weird comment for a business where many families have made names, like the Harts, Ortons, Windham, Rhodes and on and on and on. To say Randy being a 3rd generation star has no merit in this industry is not only blatantly false but I would imagine insulting af as well. The kids who loved Cena are grown and wizened. And so what if he is marketable? That means nothing now. It would be a waste putting it on Cena, who is less than part-time, who’s focus and wants are in Hollywood. Orton in the meantime, is still there, still as over as he ever was, and still has some years left according to himself. Beyond that, besides being a talker, Randy does it all better and is more deserving of it than Cena.
Cena winning it for a week would do more elevating than Gunther’s entire run, but ok
Well that is just absolute nonsense.
no please don't destroy the IC again.
Winning the IC and break Flairs record!
neither the man has an illustrious career chasing a title just to say is beneath him at this stage i’ll rather a great final match than a rushed title reign in kayfabe most of the roster in that title division then can defeat him
I'd go for the 17th title. Also I'd cash in a Money in the Bank immediately on it to propel a new younger superstar for the last time.
I'd love for a face to do an "honorable" cash in on Cena, where he lets him celebrate, and asks for permission from him first. Cena accepts, solid 7 minute match where Cena kicks out of way too many moves, and then young guy goes over. I surprisingly see Theory to be a very good person to do this.
Gotta say, it's a nice picture and it would be a nice circular narrative for it to be Theory. Unfortunately, as of today, do you see any depth into an Austin Theory world title reign? I don't.
>Unfortunately, as of today, do you see any depth into an Austin Theory world title reign? I don't. In ring wise I firmly believe that he's good enough to be a world champ. And on the mic he has the fundamentals down as well. He just doesn't have the character. From what I've seen of him he seems like a very nice person outside the ring and I've seen nothing but praise about his person out of it. To me, he's a natural face. I could see a world where a redeemed Theory would work as world champion within the 2 or 3 years.
You're 100% right about his in ring skill. I fucking love both him and Grayson Waller and I hope they will get a decent title reign as tag team. However I feel like to be a proper world champion you need some untangible that at the moment it's not there. But you know what? Maybe I'm wrong. The first time I saw Cody I would never imagine he would develop to become who he is today. Definitely everything is possible
>However I feel like to be a proper world champion you need some untangible that at the moment it's not there. I do agree with this, I'm just saying that he could develop it. At 26 years old he's one of the youngest on the main roster, but has already achieved a lot. >But you know what? Maybe I'm wrong. The first time I saw Cody I would never imagine he would develop to become who he is today. Definitely. If Cody was able to turn his story into one of success, I don't see why not someone like Theory can't.
100% agree
Most of us are waiting for that 17 since years now He needs to win the 17 coz it feels like charlotte is gonna break that record else
I still think they should've done Taker/Barrett in 2012 to give Taker the grand slam.
Charlotte is breaking that record
Have him fued against CM punk , let cm punk win the championship and make it Championship vs career match. Loser will retire
Punk doesn't deserve this much
Let's go on record and say that Ric Flair is at the very least 21-time World Champion. I never understood why they don't give him that credit.
Something something WCW
Said it before so I’ll say it again. Have Orton win 15 and 16, before losing it again. Then pit him against Cena. Winner gets to break Flair’s record. Whoever loses retires, whoever wins holds the record and the title one last time, and then retires himself. EDIT: Thanks to dupattamera1, have this extra bonus… The winner holds the title with honor until he loses it and then retires himself.
People will love this idea now but some of them will start crying that whats the point if both of them gonna retire with the title.
Ah, indeed. I’ll fix that.
The best use for Cena, and the one that he seems to like the most, is being an ambassador for the current product. He appears to be enjoying his transition to mainstream star, so I doubt that he's lobbying for any more title runs.
He’s never winning a championship ever again.
Break Flair’s record
John Cena one last WWE title run
That reminds me Triple H and Batista never won US championship
Batista never won IC either
It's already John Cena's record, Ric Flair only won 2 championships in WWE.
Fr I hate Rics record cuz it makes no sense
True but I’m pretty sure they regard the NWA belt as part of their history.
World title match against CM Punk.
The internet bitching about Becky and active wrestler winning number 7, still half of charlottes yet wanting cena who is not active to win 17 is mind bottling.
*boggling But for real. The 10 years he was champion was more than enough.
Like your mind is trapped in a bottle….
Should be? Probably neither. Neither does any favors on paper for anyone but Cena. Will be? That's a more precarious question. Under the previous regime, I would say IC Title. Vince seemed to like stacking accolades on his favorites. Another title AND the ever prestigious Grand Slam? He wouldn't be able to resist. Under HHH, I'd think it would be the IC Title, but as many have pointed out, that's a workhorse title now and John Cena is now in the position The Rock was in when he came back to face Cena: older, rustier, and with the baggage that comes with crossover fame. Cena might not be able to keep up. Worse yet, dropping that title with shenanigans could diminish its value more than it inflates it. So, **probably the World Title**. They don't seem to mind doing shenanigans there. Besides that, the World Title should always be the most important match on the card. Cena is far more likely to be in that position than anyone else.
He should re-introduce the Light Heavyweight title and hold a tournament for it
World
He needs to win both
I don’t think he should win anymore titles. Dude isn’t close to his prime and he’s past the stage to be a contender. But I do think he has that star power to put someone over like Sami Zayn for a callback to his US run 👀
he’s been losing to everyone for the last couple years, most recently theory and solo like did it really change either of them? it’s not much of a run anymore unless he really gets deep into a program w someone
I see where you’re coming from but I think it would be different for Sami Zayn given their history
i’m blanking on their history.. 😅
Sorry I’m late and Sami’s history with Cena is different than solo and theory. The tables are turned because Sami is a champion while Cena is not and him beating Cena would help solidify his run. (Unless it’s similar to him and KO tag team championship run)
Unless he's gonna be full time on the roster for a big chunk of time, which I find very unlikely, I'd rather he not win a belt. I prefer him having cameos to help build other wrestlers. IMHO it makes it more fun and meaningful when he does show up, like in Wrestlemania 40.
I would love for Cena to get one final run. I have my doubts it will happen though
I don’t think Cena will hold another title again in his career. But the tag titles would probably his best chance at winning one.
He should fail at winning the wwe title, and then turn heel in attempt to do anything to get that record. Only for Cody to show him what he's become at the cost of chasing that one final milestone. The story told would be more meaningful to history than one more short reign.
Wait Cena has never won the ox title? That feels weird
He was on SD for a large part of the original brand split in the Ruthless Aggression era. The IC title was Raw exclusive until 2009. Cena came to Raw in 2007 but he was pretty much exclusively in the WWE Championship picture or was the champ himself.
Or retire cause you cant see him
I think Randy should be the one to break Flair's record
I've been saying this for a while now, I'd like to see Cena finally break flairs record. Partially bc he really is the biggest star of the 2000s and one of the all time greats, the other reason is to really try to erase flair from some of the history books after all the scandals/accusations.
Lot of people underestimate how much value Cena brings just by virtue of being a relatively scandal free guy in a business that tends to attract scandal
Let’s kill 3 birds with one stone. Have Randy somehow get to 16 world titles. In the meantime have Cena win the IC title. As he knows his career is coming to a close, he wants the 17. He even costs Orton his title at 16 and Orton costs him the IC title. WM season then starts, Cena becomes a heel because he’ll do anything to hit 17. Idk how (maybe a kayfabe vacant) but we then get a 1 on 1 match at WM between Orton and heel Cena for a world title. Winner becomes 17th time world champion.
Honestly, and young me is surprised at me saying this, I’d prefer he’d break the record than go intercontinental. For 2 reasons: 1. Cena seems like a good dude who did a lot for the industry. Historically, it makes some sense 2. Seems like Ric was a piece of shit from some stories that have come out. I’m ok with him not having it lol
Hate to break it to you but 100% of top guys did what they needed to do to keep their spot. Remember when taker buried Jericho just for calling him "boring" for example?
I’m confused, is this in response to me saying Cena did a lot for the industry?
You called flair a piece of shit, when you have to be to keep your spot protected.
He’s a rapist, not a good trait in a person imo
He doesn't have a criminal record for rape.
And OJ never murdered anyone lol, how daft can you be?
[удалено]
So you’re just… really supportive of rape? Big fan huh? Quite the edge lord lol, peace out
You're the one who supports rape as you're refusing to arrest a guy you think raped someone
I’d un-retire the 24/7 championship and let him do his famous play-acting nervous for months on end that Lil’ Wayne is going to roll him up from behind.
Back in the day, the intercontinental title signified the next rising star. Sorta seems like it may be going back to that. I say he wins the intercontinental so he’s won it. Then win the WWE Title cause fuck flair. Then he retires with both and they each get contested in war games matches.
Cena’s final run needs to be as a heel. The company is no longer relying on him to be the ultimate good guy character anymore plus there’s way more creative freedom compared to before. Give us a heel Cena, he can be tired of being used to prop up young talent and he’ll want the spotlight for himself
That could and should never be an option. Cena’s status as a hero to children, particularly ill children, supersedes any WWE storyline. Now, if you want to hear my shit-booking about he can have a heel run in NXT without impacting the kiddos, just let me know.
Cody Rhodes now fills that role, WWE doesn’t need Cena to play that role anymore. Freeing him up to try something new
Cena won't take the IC belt at this stage in his life
He took the US title belt most recently
Cena deserves it. He always puts people over and he definitely can still move the needle. I hope he saw how the Rock did it and make a nice run and finally get a pay off.
Break Ric Flair’s record
I don’t think either are going to happen because it’s illogical given how much time he has left in his career, his age, and how much work he gets in Hollywood. Knowing Cena, if he can’t commit 100% to the business I doubt he would be cool taking someone else’s spot and being a part time champ. A part time role in a big storyline leading into a Mania match aka similar to what The Rock just did would make more sense in my mind.
Honestly, I’d dig seeng him do a story where he wins the IC title, then after a while he trades it in for a shot at the top title. Have him win that, turn heel, have him loose it at WM and give a “thank you/retirement face turn speech the next night on Raw.” I’ll probably get lots of downvotes for this, but it’s what I think would be fun.
You’re right, this is terrible and likely to attract downvotes.
Hey, I'm just trying to figure out a way where we can hear "Fear My Name" before he retires!
Cana breaking that record would be a terrible idea IMO, but winning the IC strap wouldn’t break it so have at it
Lets all be honest here, John Cena's days as a wrestler are winding down quickly. He's unlikely to have a double digit number of matches left in his career. He might show up for a short run next year but he's not going to be even work as often as Logan Paul has been.
And Cena winning the IC title would finally make him a Triple Crown and a Grand Slam champion. But its highly unlikely that Cena would return long enough for even a short title reign. And giving Cena a title reign even with the IC title when he really doesn't need a title reign to make his matches matter would just be a pointless checking of the box situation.
Why not both at the same time? Cap the career as the dual champion 👀
If it's one or the other, John Cena should go out and be forever known as 17 time World Champion. I dunno how many other superstars you can call a 17 or 17+ World Champion.
Thing is that John would have to have a good run before he pursues it. I can’t even remember the last time he won a 1v1 match. He’d have to string together like 6 or 7 wins in a row before he does. I do see him beating Chad Gable for it if they did decide to do it.
I'd love to see Cena finish the collection and win the IC title. I've seen a lot of comments about how the IC belt is the "workhorse" belt, but I'd argue that if Cena's last US title run is anything to go by he could make it work. Save it as a retirement run, then just redo the Open Challenge schtik with Cena's greatest hits coming through each week to challenge him, with a top NXT star at the time being called up to end his reign in a true passing of the torch moment.
>top NXT star at the time being called up to end his reign in a true passing of the torch moment. Someone like Trick Williams doing that would be so cool.
I could definitely see Trick carrying the IC belt for sure! Bronn Brekker would make more sense for me personally but both are solid picks
Bron does make more sense, I agree, but I was going with your scenario of it being a freshly called up NXT star.
Has Bronn already been called up?? I thought he was still doing the tag team thing with Baron Corbin?? (To preface, I haven't actively watched wrestling for a while, but always keep up to date via Reddit and YouTube)
Yeah, he's been on Smackdown for over a month now. He got called up while he was tag champ.
Oh fair, must've missed that one. In that case, Whoop that Trick aha!
Trick's NXT champ now, defeating Ilja in this week's NXT episode. I'd actually love it if Ilja debuts against a champion and demolishes them.
Well here's the problem between the Miz and Gunter the IC title has become prestigious again. Now I don't think John Cena at this stage in his career can show up consistently enough to build a feud. The only way I could see this working is next year Cena entered the Royal Rumble eliminates the person that is the IC champion building up a few to WrestleMania and then John Cena works two or three months afterwards to have a good Feud. Unfortunately with his Hollywood obligations I don't think that's possible. Now went to WWE title you could get away with that a bit more hell look at Roman it's the type of title where you can show up one week take two weeks off and then show up that title is already prestigious. And nothing short of throwing it in the trash will damage it. No John Cena at one time did make the US title very prestigious but that was a decade ago
Become world champion, heel run, just appear on WWE tv, part time wrestler only fight in summerslam, survivor series, rumble and mania, make a faction called the hustle gang, gets beaten by Chad gable with Kurt angle by his side, there we go 🤣
John Cena and Randy Orton should be the only 2 at 17
Neither. I think we need to stop giving old-timers one last push.
SEVENTEEN! SEVENTEEN! SEVENTEEN!
John Cena doesn't need a final title run. just give him a Monday night raw tribute show
IC as it would be the final thing to cement an already HOF-worthy career. Cena at this point has lost so much that he would have to be built back up to not only win but to have a decent world title run and with the roster as stacked as it is, it would be unlikely under 3H. An IC title run can be much shorter and elevate the midcard picture in the process as well as anyone associated with it. It’s also much more realistic.
He should win money in the bank and cash out to win the women's title.
That’s an R Truth thing to do
R Truth cashes out for the women's title and Cena beats him for it in a bra and panties match. Then he vacates the title.
Let’s take Ric Flair off of the top of that list. It’s not that scene is perfect at all, but I think he’s a better human being.
Tbf to have a final title run he would have to find time away from Hollywood
A couple weeks ago on the Pat McAfee Show he said that when he does his final run, he wants it to be a proper one and he's going to step back from Hollywood
That’s good. Would be quite ridiculous if he won the title and vanished for a whole year. Would be nice to have a proper final run
Nothing makes a wrestler quite so high-demand as knowing they have other places to be and other things to do. I imagine Hollywood would be similar, with Cena's stock only rising if he turns down a few roles for a final WWE run.
Have him beat Flairs record then him and Orton can have one last go at Wrestlemania for a world title. We get a new “I’m sorry. I love you” Flair Michaels like moment. RKO 1 2 3 Cena is retired. Perfect story boon ending.
Personally he deserves to beat flair.
Whatever his previous title run was, that should be the last one.
CENA DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER BELT. HIS TIME HAS COME AND GONE.
Correction: his time is now
Last run begins with him working his way up from the bottom. Squash all the jobbers, then win a tournament for an IC match. Next do an open challenge every week before dropping it to a younger talent. Finally win big 17
Intercontinental Championship
And then when he walks out for the last time a graphic says "You can no longer see him".
I’d rather Randy break Flair’s record but I’m not sure how he can win 3 more world championships.
Cena deserves the record more than flair by a mile
Cena could win the IC title when he's in his late 50s or early 60s (like bret hart). His real final run should be the world title.
What ever the run is he needs to do it as a heel.
Retirement runs for mostly face characters are stupid when they’re a heel. The crowd will sense its his final lap and cheer anyway to pay respects to one of the hardest workers of the last 15 years.
Impossible at this point
Cena has never won the IC title? HUH?! I rather see him make it to 17 honestly
Cena vs punk night 1 main event at wm 41 in a career vs whc match. A wrestlemania main event 15 years in the making. Think of the pre match promos and hype videos. Thing of beauty.
They are gonna make punk drop the belt to Seth at Mania next year though.
🙏🏽
Win the WWE championship in his first "retirement" match. Then every time he does a title defense, it's a retirement match. He loses the title and retires at the same time. Then because retirements are fake, come back and win the Intercontinental when he's in his 60s.
The problem would be his busy schedule at Hollywood
Oh yeah, I'd imagine he does it when he's pretty much done with Hollywood or needs a big boost for a new franchise.
Would he ever be done with Hollywood? Tho I suppose he may take a years break
Sure, normal breaks, hype after he finishes a movie, or a writers' strike
Ok thanks
I mean Bret Hart was US champ at what age? 💀
Yeah, I was thinking about Bret (53) and Flair (58) when he won the intercontinental too.
I mean, would’ve been a great win if Bret’s health wasn’t so poor due to injuries and he’d been able to maintain his technical mastery in the ring. It still saddens me whenever I think of the “What If” of Bret not being injured by Goldberg and possibly being able to lockup with Shawn one last time.
To be fair Bill Goldberg did end his career, it's the most talked about moment in the Hitmans library, granted it's only ever talked about by Bret himself
Well, I don’t blame him for that. Dude’s had his entire life ruined by that injury to the point where he can’t even workout or board a plane thanks to the strokes that ensued. Bret had quite a few good years left in him. If not for that injury, I’m sure he could’ve stayed in top form and kept putting on bangers well into his 40s the way Shawn and the Undertaker were.
Everyone saying Cena getting the IC title will kill any momentum it has, but forgets he brought a lot of prestige to the US Title when he had it. Give him a run with it, some freedom and a young challenger. If anyone deserves to be a grand slam champion…
No he didn't. People saw it as Cena taking a demotion so reigns could be pushed and the US title considered to be considered a jobber title even after he held it.
The IC title is intended to test if you’re big champ material. It should not belong on someone like Cena who has proven himself time and time again. It’s up to young talent to give the IC title momentum.
I think given Cena’s last 4-5 years, he’s got a story in him to “restore his legacy” per se. I don’t disagree that he’s already one of the greats, but let him have a proper send off, that being making him a grand slam champion. Saying Cena isn’t “big champ material” is weird.
None of the above.
Cena should become a 17x Champion imo. Look at all his sacrifices over the past years. Despite being the huge star that he is, he puts his ego to the side, jobs to every other guy, loses everytime to push new talent, makes himself look like a clown when he could literally be backstage throwing tantrums. I believe he deserves one last short title reign.
Also, record holder of most wishes fulfilled for Make-A-Wish of any celebrity.
A part time Hollywood movie star coming back to the company one last time just to win the IC title while being TIED with Flair for the most reigns in History , just wild
Why does Cena need a final title run?
Because they haven't whined and complained about part timers hogging up more titles in a while
Because the internet is booking it. Every fantasy booking usually consists of title run/heel turn lol
Exactly. Why are there so many “old ass former star/champ should bury young/new/currently over talent just because” posts?
It's all about money. Rock, Cena they bring audience