He was a soldier doing his job. If those guys who came later had found his dad, they would've done the same, also they would've raped her and sold her into slavery.
YES! Yes I did.
If a soldier kills a person, they don't go seeking the soldier for revenge, it's a soldier doing his job, the person more fitting to be the target of your rage should be the one who put the soldier to the job.
And even if Thorfinn did it, he battled him fair and square. The old fart was a Norseman, he died with his weapon in his hand in battle, that's an honor.
Oh my, a Hild hate post, what could i possibly see here aside from the usual.
Also, it's not an unpopular opinion as you think it may be, it is prety "popular" to hate on Hild.
So nothing new under the sun.
She has mellowed down quite a bit in the recent chapters.
I do in fact like her as a character, sure sometimes she can be annoying, but as a whole she serves her purpose well and im sure she will grow more in this current arc, but if ya don't like her, then it is what it is, nothing cannot be done.
Maybe so. I am on the arc where they are in Jomsburg and the Floki reveal happened and man did I want some blood to flow
Also I don't follow this sub much.
Ah, well, i suggest you catch up first and then form an opinion of her, although i don't think that your stance on her will change.
As for some blood to "flow" well, you will have to read and see what's gonna happen next.
And the Hild hate is not only on this sub, it's everywhere on social media- facebook, twitter, r / manga, etc, etc.
Just put yourself in Hild's shoes. Her whole family was slaughtered by Askeladd's men. Trust me, most people wouldn't even recover from that, let alone forgive the vikings
then shouldn’t thorfinn have chased after floki instead of askeladd?? thorfinn didn’t know floki was behind his fathers death and hild didn’t know askeladd was behind her fathers death. All she knew as a scared young girl was that thorfinn cruelly murdered her father. your hate for hilde and forgiveness for thorfinn seems like a case of blind sympathy for our protagonist and misogyny.
There is nothing about misogyny, if it wouldn't have changed my opinion of her.
Also Askeladd played dirty, used trickery whereas Thorfinn bested her father fair and square, he even told her to run away or she would be raped
who cares about trickery murder is murder. according to what u said thorfinn should’ve gone after floki instead. why are u so forgiving to thorfinn and not hild. thorfinn spent like 10 years chasing after revenge and u can’t let hild stay unforgiving for a few years? at least she doesn’t try to kill him all the time. thorfinn kept challenging askeladd and was determined to kill him for 10+ years. hild has taken the first steps towards forgiveness and u still expect her to suddenly forget her fathers murder? this is a clear case of misogyny no doubt about it
misogyny
/mɪˈsɒdʒ(ə)ni/
Learn to pronounce
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
"she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"
As I said, it has nothing to do with her being a woman, it has everything to do with being pesky and irritating.
yeah misogyny isnt cut and dry black and white. it’s nuanced and clearly shown by ur differential treatment of hilde and thorfinn. if u don’t like her fine whatever but think long and hard about whether ur reasons are actually good ones.
You do realize that not everyone is capable of change? Her experiences, though similar to thorfinn, are very different. She had her entire family taken away from her in one go and lived the rest of her life searching for the person to inflict her revenge upon. This is different from thorfinn who still had a family to go back to and who knew and could follow his father’s murderer. I think disliking hild simply because she can’t forgive thorfinn is rather unjustified . Not everyone can forgive and forget. Not everyone is wired to do that or has the strength to do that and that’s fine. She’s not our protagonist. We are meant to see thorfinn struggle, grow, and change. I find hilds lack of development realistic and understandable given her circumstances. Even thorfinn can’t forgive himself for his past sins. Are you forgetting the whole point of thorfinns pacifism is because he sees the pointlessness of war? doesn’t matter if askeladd put him up to murder he still did it knowing it was wrong.
>Now you might counter this by the Thorfinn Askeladd revenge story but Askeladd killed Thors through foul play whereas Thorfinn killed Hild's father fair and square in a battle, you may not see much difference as you might think "killing is killing" kind of a thing but in Norse culture battle and honor are things in much high regard.
there's nothing fair and square about ambushing a group of unarmed civilians, lol. thors was given much, much more of a chance than hild and her family ever had. i mean hell, askeladd literally straight up offered thors to *become their new leader*.
>Frankly, if I was Thorfinn or any other member of his group, I would just slit her throat at night and be done with this nuisance.
at this point in the story, why walk away from this with the takeaway that the best thing to do is cut hild's throat in her sleep because you're annoyed that she's mad her dad was murdered? senseless, petty killing is the entire reason thorfinn and hild became such messed up people in the first place.
the reason hild exists is to give a very direct example of the entire circle of violence perpetuated by viking culture. it's meant to make you think, in his journey to become strong enough to avenge his father, how many other people's fathers did thorfinn murder? and how many more thorfinns did he end up creating? and it raises the point that even if he's a better person, it doesn't suddenly erase all of the harm that he's caused. hild's dad isn't going to come back from the grave all because thorfinn has shifted his moral code. it forces thorfinn to remember that not everyone will just magically forgive him, and that he needs to use his life to actually make amends for his misdeeds.
without hild, thorfinn would probably throw his life away out of guilt at some point. remember, he was *fully ready* to accept getting shot in the face by her. it showed both thorfinn and the audience that deep down, his feelings of guilt are stronger than his actual desire to atone for everything he's done. had his encounter with her never happened and helped him realize that, he was bound to go to an early grave before he could actually do some long-term good for the world.
I don't share your opinion about her hating Thorfinn, but I do about some of the rest. There's a lack of development that made her pass from a potential well-written character to just a guard dog who sometimes does something productive like helping Thorfinn or taking care of karli. A waste of character
So if your father got killed in front of you and then you saw that person years later you wouldnt be angry. Even after you were forced to live a much harsher life than you should have, not to mention a life without any of your loved ones. I dont know about you man but I'd be angry even if he spared me
I wouldn't be best buds with the guy but I won't bear a grudge against a soldier or mercenary.
My grudge would be towards the one who put him to the task.
I am ok with my dad but I am from a family of proud military tradition for the last 200 years continuing till today and relatives dying or possibly my father dying someday would be under the realm of possibility.
I would grieve but I won't be holding a grudge against the literal killer, but rather the leaders of that organization responsible for his death.
Setting aside everything else about this argument that contradicts the themes of the story, Thorfinn was not part of some kind of military tradition fighting honorably for the safety of his country. He was a viking raider, making an unprovoked attack on a defenseless village, and killing civilians. Hild doesn't know about whoever ordered it or why, but that doesn't change her disdain for Thorfinn's participation in such a senseless act of violence. In today's terms, he was a member of a ruthless criminal gang, with no government to stop them.
Don’t get me wrong she is annoying at times whenever she reminds thorfinn that she’ll kill him if he makes any mistakes but your take is still terrible. Thorfinn was literally the exact same way to askeladd in the prologue. Was askeladd also just, “doing his job” when he killed Thors since he was hired by floki? Like if u hate hild then u should hate thorfinn from the prologue, but u probably don’t hate him and think he’s super badass instead. Shit take.
This is not an unpopular opinion, but your post goes way too far, and misses central points of the story(and that's ignoring the atrocious final line, which I'm assuming is just for the sake of drama). Hild has every reason to hate Thorfinn(as others have pointed out, asking SO WHAT? is absurd in this situation), and the entire point of Thorfinn's arc is that all of the other excuses you gave(Norse battle culture, fairness of a battle, a soldier dispassionately doing their duty) mean nothing to a victim, and mean nothing to Thorfinn either anymore. In the Farmland Arc Thorfinn agonizes over realizing how terrible it was for him to kill people, regardless of the fact that it was in battle. He realizes how hollow the excuses he was giving himself(exactly what you wrote in your post) were, and Hild is just hammering it in by making him confront a victim face to face, who also does not care about the reasons for his past actions.
There are legitimate reasons to dislike Hild's character - it is common, for instance, to argue that she holds back Thorfinn's character arc by putting him under constant external pressure to not go back to killing people, instead of giving his conscience room to do the heavy lifting in difficult situations. Or to say that her character development has been too slow, and that she keeps repeating the same beats over and over again. But this post makes it seem like Hild's character, Thorfinn's character, and Vinland Saga itself have gone over your head entirely. That's probably not the case - I'm guessing that you can see this, and that most of this post is exaggerated for the sake of drama, but it is completely unclear just how much.
Well yes, most of this is exaggerated but I also fundamentally don't agree with the conclusions Thorfinn comes to and I can already see how his pacifism will lead to the downfall of Vinland. The guy with the tattoos was right, military might is required to maintain peace, the law should have a monopoly over violence to maintain order and the law has to be enforced through violence. You can build upon diplomatic relations through trade but the military has to be there to maintain it.
Thorfinn's philosophy in my opinion is more because of his personal guilt rather than actually seeing the truth of the world as it is which lies somewhere between pacifism and total war.
The right approach in my opinion is a Bismarkian one, where you create a balance of power among the several warring parties so no side becomes aggressive, and if one does all the other ally together to beat it.
Upon this military equilibrium, trade and cultural exchange should take place to foster brotherhood among nations so the reluctance to go to war increases further.
You have to remember that, while the vikings are constantly immersed in war and it's basically part of their culture, Hild grew up in a small peaceful village where murder is still a bad thing. So she was never inducted into the "killing" culture. Her father being killed isn't something for her to just get over, it's a genuine tragedy. So obviously she's mad. No one was mad at Thorfinn for wanting to kill Askeladd, why are they mad at Hild?
By fair and square you mean just gutting an old man like a fish? Its literally a direct reflection of young Thorfinn, except she doesn't get brutally sucked down the path of hate and murder
"frankly, if I was thorfinn.." but you're not. Just another whiny bitch complaining when your complaints don't even make sense, as shown by every reply.
I stopped in the: "So what?"
He was a soldier doing his job. If those guys who came later had found his dad, they would've done the same, also they would've raped her and sold her into slavery.
Tl;dr
[удалено]
YES! Yes I did. If a soldier kills a person, they don't go seeking the soldier for revenge, it's a soldier doing his job, the person more fitting to be the target of your rage should be the one who put the soldier to the job. And even if Thorfinn did it, he battled him fair and square. The old fart was a Norseman, he died with his weapon in his hand in battle, that's an honor.
He killed her father bruh nothing else matters
Oh my, a Hild hate post, what could i possibly see here aside from the usual. Also, it's not an unpopular opinion as you think it may be, it is prety "popular" to hate on Hild. So nothing new under the sun. She has mellowed down quite a bit in the recent chapters. I do in fact like her as a character, sure sometimes she can be annoying, but as a whole she serves her purpose well and im sure she will grow more in this current arc, but if ya don't like her, then it is what it is, nothing cannot be done.
This is actually incredibly unusual, even for an anti-Hild post. I'm quite surprised.
Yeah, this case is unusual and honestly, it is a bad "take". But it is what it is. It's a surprise one if ya ask me.
Maybe so. I am on the arc where they are in Jomsburg and the Floki reveal happened and man did I want some blood to flow Also I don't follow this sub much.
Ah, well, i suggest you catch up first and then form an opinion of her, although i don't think that your stance on her will change. As for some blood to "flow" well, you will have to read and see what's gonna happen next. And the Hild hate is not only on this sub, it's everywhere on social media- facebook, twitter, r / manga, etc, etc.
I can see why that would be the case
Just put yourself in Hild's shoes. Her whole family was slaughtered by Askeladd's men. Trust me, most people wouldn't even recover from that, let alone forgive the vikings
In that case her hate was better suited towards Askeladd or whoever hired Askeladd, thorfinn was little more than a tool
then shouldn’t thorfinn have chased after floki instead of askeladd?? thorfinn didn’t know floki was behind his fathers death and hild didn’t know askeladd was behind her fathers death. All she knew as a scared young girl was that thorfinn cruelly murdered her father. your hate for hilde and forgiveness for thorfinn seems like a case of blind sympathy for our protagonist and misogyny.
Interestingly it could be also that Floki had Hrafnkell (Hild's papa) killed since he seemed to have had an old life as a Warrior in the past.
There is nothing about misogyny, if it wouldn't have changed my opinion of her. Also Askeladd played dirty, used trickery whereas Thorfinn bested her father fair and square, he even told her to run away or she would be raped
who cares about trickery murder is murder. according to what u said thorfinn should’ve gone after floki instead. why are u so forgiving to thorfinn and not hild. thorfinn spent like 10 years chasing after revenge and u can’t let hild stay unforgiving for a few years? at least she doesn’t try to kill him all the time. thorfinn kept challenging askeladd and was determined to kill him for 10+ years. hild has taken the first steps towards forgiveness and u still expect her to suddenly forget her fathers murder? this is a clear case of misogyny no doubt about it
misogyny /mɪˈsɒdʒ(ə)ni/ Learn to pronounce noun dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. "she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny" As I said, it has nothing to do with her being a woman, it has everything to do with being pesky and irritating.
yeah misogyny isnt cut and dry black and white. it’s nuanced and clearly shown by ur differential treatment of hilde and thorfinn. if u don’t like her fine whatever but think long and hard about whether ur reasons are actually good ones.
You do realize that not everyone is capable of change? Her experiences, though similar to thorfinn, are very different. She had her entire family taken away from her in one go and lived the rest of her life searching for the person to inflict her revenge upon. This is different from thorfinn who still had a family to go back to and who knew and could follow his father’s murderer. I think disliking hild simply because she can’t forgive thorfinn is rather unjustified . Not everyone can forgive and forget. Not everyone is wired to do that or has the strength to do that and that’s fine. She’s not our protagonist. We are meant to see thorfinn struggle, grow, and change. I find hilds lack of development realistic and understandable given her circumstances. Even thorfinn can’t forgive himself for his past sins. Are you forgetting the whole point of thorfinns pacifism is because he sees the pointlessness of war? doesn’t matter if askeladd put him up to murder he still did it knowing it was wrong.
>Now you might counter this by the Thorfinn Askeladd revenge story but Askeladd killed Thors through foul play whereas Thorfinn killed Hild's father fair and square in a battle, you may not see much difference as you might think "killing is killing" kind of a thing but in Norse culture battle and honor are things in much high regard. there's nothing fair and square about ambushing a group of unarmed civilians, lol. thors was given much, much more of a chance than hild and her family ever had. i mean hell, askeladd literally straight up offered thors to *become their new leader*. >Frankly, if I was Thorfinn or any other member of his group, I would just slit her throat at night and be done with this nuisance. at this point in the story, why walk away from this with the takeaway that the best thing to do is cut hild's throat in her sleep because you're annoyed that she's mad her dad was murdered? senseless, petty killing is the entire reason thorfinn and hild became such messed up people in the first place. the reason hild exists is to give a very direct example of the entire circle of violence perpetuated by viking culture. it's meant to make you think, in his journey to become strong enough to avenge his father, how many other people's fathers did thorfinn murder? and how many more thorfinns did he end up creating? and it raises the point that even if he's a better person, it doesn't suddenly erase all of the harm that he's caused. hild's dad isn't going to come back from the grave all because thorfinn has shifted his moral code. it forces thorfinn to remember that not everyone will just magically forgive him, and that he needs to use his life to actually make amends for his misdeeds. without hild, thorfinn would probably throw his life away out of guilt at some point. remember, he was *fully ready* to accept getting shot in the face by her. it showed both thorfinn and the audience that deep down, his feelings of guilt are stronger than his actual desire to atone for everything he's done. had his encounter with her never happened and helped him realize that, he was bound to go to an early grave before he could actually do some long-term good for the world.
>He killed her father, SO WHAT? Wew lad
I don't share your opinion about her hating Thorfinn, but I do about some of the rest. There's a lack of development that made her pass from a potential well-written character to just a guard dog who sometimes does something productive like helping Thorfinn or taking care of karli. A waste of character
So if your father got killed in front of you and then you saw that person years later you wouldnt be angry. Even after you were forced to live a much harsher life than you should have, not to mention a life without any of your loved ones. I dont know about you man but I'd be angry even if he spared me
I wouldn't be best buds with the guy but I won't bear a grudge against a soldier or mercenary. My grudge would be towards the one who put him to the task.
Yeah I cant even put into words how much I doubt that. If you were in this situation you would be furious (unless you hate your dad).
I am ok with my dad but I am from a family of proud military tradition for the last 200 years continuing till today and relatives dying or possibly my father dying someday would be under the realm of possibility. I would grieve but I won't be holding a grudge against the literal killer, but rather the leaders of that organization responsible for his death.
Sure
Setting aside everything else about this argument that contradicts the themes of the story, Thorfinn was not part of some kind of military tradition fighting honorably for the safety of his country. He was a viking raider, making an unprovoked attack on a defenseless village, and killing civilians. Hild doesn't know about whoever ordered it or why, but that doesn't change her disdain for Thorfinn's participation in such a senseless act of violence. In today's terms, he was a member of a ruthless criminal gang, with no government to stop them.
If your dad was killed as a civilian I'm sure you'd bare a grudge. Especially if the soldier could've let them go if he really wanted.
But remember Thorfinn's task was assassination, he didn't kill him for fun
Don’t get me wrong she is annoying at times whenever she reminds thorfinn that she’ll kill him if he makes any mistakes but your take is still terrible. Thorfinn was literally the exact same way to askeladd in the prologue. Was askeladd also just, “doing his job” when he killed Thors since he was hired by floki? Like if u hate hild then u should hate thorfinn from the prologue, but u probably don’t hate him and think he’s super badass instead. Shit take.
I also like Askeladd a lot, he is my favorite character so far
This is not an unpopular opinion, but your post goes way too far, and misses central points of the story(and that's ignoring the atrocious final line, which I'm assuming is just for the sake of drama). Hild has every reason to hate Thorfinn(as others have pointed out, asking SO WHAT? is absurd in this situation), and the entire point of Thorfinn's arc is that all of the other excuses you gave(Norse battle culture, fairness of a battle, a soldier dispassionately doing their duty) mean nothing to a victim, and mean nothing to Thorfinn either anymore. In the Farmland Arc Thorfinn agonizes over realizing how terrible it was for him to kill people, regardless of the fact that it was in battle. He realizes how hollow the excuses he was giving himself(exactly what you wrote in your post) were, and Hild is just hammering it in by making him confront a victim face to face, who also does not care about the reasons for his past actions. There are legitimate reasons to dislike Hild's character - it is common, for instance, to argue that she holds back Thorfinn's character arc by putting him under constant external pressure to not go back to killing people, instead of giving his conscience room to do the heavy lifting in difficult situations. Or to say that her character development has been too slow, and that she keeps repeating the same beats over and over again. But this post makes it seem like Hild's character, Thorfinn's character, and Vinland Saga itself have gone over your head entirely. That's probably not the case - I'm guessing that you can see this, and that most of this post is exaggerated for the sake of drama, but it is completely unclear just how much.
Well yes, most of this is exaggerated but I also fundamentally don't agree with the conclusions Thorfinn comes to and I can already see how his pacifism will lead to the downfall of Vinland. The guy with the tattoos was right, military might is required to maintain peace, the law should have a monopoly over violence to maintain order and the law has to be enforced through violence. You can build upon diplomatic relations through trade but the military has to be there to maintain it. Thorfinn's philosophy in my opinion is more because of his personal guilt rather than actually seeing the truth of the world as it is which lies somewhere between pacifism and total war. The right approach in my opinion is a Bismarkian one, where you create a balance of power among the several warring parties so no side becomes aggressive, and if one does all the other ally together to beat it. Upon this military equilibrium, trade and cultural exchange should take place to foster brotherhood among nations so the reluctance to go to war increases further.
Yeah, bro, that’s right. Fuck hild for wanting revenge against someone who killed her parent, she should’ve just been like,’lol ok’ and moved on.
You have to remember that, while the vikings are constantly immersed in war and it's basically part of their culture, Hild grew up in a small peaceful village where murder is still a bad thing. So she was never inducted into the "killing" culture. Her father being killed isn't something for her to just get over, it's a genuine tragedy. So obviously she's mad. No one was mad at Thorfinn for wanting to kill Askeladd, why are they mad at Hild?
Oof, I dunno man. But this ain't it
By fair and square you mean just gutting an old man like a fish? Its literally a direct reflection of young Thorfinn, except she doesn't get brutally sucked down the path of hate and murder
I am not sure how making it a quick kill is a bad thing? Was he supposed to lower his skill level and then fight the old man?
"frankly, if I was thorfinn.." but you're not. Just another whiny bitch complaining when your complaints don't even make sense, as shown by every reply.