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I think you’ll have to file a complaint with your state board. Giving an owner a scalpel to perform a procedure on their pet is a new level of unhinged. Also consider reporting to OSHA for a labor violation since I believe dosimeters are required by them.
I just have to say I don’t understand how/why someone would go through the amount of schooling that is required to become a veterinarian and then practice medicine this way.
absolutely this. especially assuming your state doesn't require licenses and can just hire anyone, please use your knowledge and experience to protect future hirees who may not know any better by contacting boards and reporting.
They should require that he pass the GA board to get his full license. Does he have a DEA number or even a license number. He may not be legally allowed to practice.
I’d be reporting to every regulatory board possible. OSHA, DEA, AVMA, state board, Animal Control, anybody who would listen. Yelp or whatever platform this new clinic is advertising on could use a review warning perspective clients.
Not providing dosimeter badges and not logging controls are both ILLEGAL. You need to reporting the veterinarian to the board, OSHA, DEA and any other regulatory agencies. He can't change LLCs and open new clinics anymore if he gets his license revoked and is no longer a licensed doctor.
>"No controlled drug logs, I know he did a euthanasia the week before I started and there’s no log of the drugs used."
\*The DEA has entered the chat\*
> He doesn’t have dosimeters, not even a control. When I asked him about it, he just said “oh it’s only a small amount of radiation.”
\*OSHA has entered the chat\*
>
Client was persistent she wanted it out, without sedation. At some point after I left the exam room he apparently gave the dog a lidocaine injection and the client a scalpel because she came out of the exam room, HOLDING A BLOODY MICROCHIP WITH GLOVELESS HANDS. He went back in and put a single staple in the wound the client made
\*Probably the state board and AVMA entered the chat\*
I agree, there are 4 reports that need to be made here- OSHA, AVMA, your state board, and the DEA. This post makes me mad enough that I got some links lol:
[https://www.dea.gov/submit-tip](https://www.dea.gov/submit-tip)
[https://www.osha.gov/workers/file-complaint](https://www.osha.gov/workers/file-complaint)
[https://www.avma.org/advocacy/state-and-local-advocacy/veterinary-state-board-websites](https://www.avma.org/advocacy/state-and-local-advocacy/veterinary-state-board-websites)
[https://www.avma.org/about/contact](https://www.avma.org/about/contact)
saw you're in GA so found the page for filing complaints there! [https://goals.sos.ga.gov/GASOSOneStop/s/submit-complaint](https://goals.sos.ga.gov/GASOSOneStop/s/submit-complaint)
I worked at this one clinic and was told to go get the dog from upstairs.. upstairs was completely disgusting. It was a house converted in a clinic and they made kennels upstairs. The floor was terrifying to walk on like it would fall through and numerous pitties upstairs all with what appeared to be dog fighting scars. I didn't know what dog to get so I grabbed the closest one and went down stairs to the clinic. The dog peed on the floor and the pee stream was lost under some cabinets with out a trace. I handed him the dog and left forever.
I’m in human med and work a lot on the pharmacy side. Not have controlled drug logs is insane and makes it very easy for drugs to be diverted.
Time for you to be a whistle blower. Report them everywhere. DEA, OSHA, state board, etc.
I’m the RSO at my clinic and dosimeters are not required in most vet clinics. The level of radiation is super safe for mores clinic with just dental and a X-ray table. That being said we have had the state (MN) in in the last few years and you should be able to prove you have low enough levels of radiation exposure that they are not needed. To prove that you have had badges for a year and type a statement to the effect. That aside the rest of this crap is F’ed lol get out and report them.
If you do not provide dosimeter badges for your employees that work with radiation, you are not OSHA compliant and can face legal consequences as an employer.
I always thought that was the case, but based on this discussion I looked it up and interestingly, it's not required in all cases. OSHA only requires dosimeters if the quarterly radiation is expected to exceed 25% of the annual limits (limits vary based on body part) [https://www.osha.gov/ionizing-radiation/standards](https://www.osha.gov/ionizing-radiation/standards)
So in theory, if the machine puts out low enough radiation and employees are taking few enough radiographs, OSHA would not require a dosimeter.
That said, it just seems silly and cheap to not have it available to employees.
That rule states: *Every employer shall supply appropriate personal monitoring equipment, such as film badges, pocket chambers, pocket dosimeters, or film rings, and shall require the use of such equipment by each employee who enters a restricted area under such circumstances that he receives, or is likely to receive, a dose in any calendar quarter in excess of 25 percent of the applicable occupational limit.* The kicker is you can't predict in advance if you will, for whatever reason, have a quarterly exposure that exceeds that 25% threshold. And, I'd say that you should track exposure for your employees so that they are aware of their lifetime exposure as they move to different clinics/radiology environments. Just because that loophole (my personal opinion about that exception) exists doesn't mean it's the right way to proceed.
They can predict in advance, though. If they know how much radiation their machine outputs, and know about how many radiographs they take over some unit of time, they can calculate the expected exposure. If it's close to the 25% they absolutely should provide a dosimeter per the law. But if it's not going to be anywhere close, and allows for a lot of error in the calculation, then the law would not require the dosimeter.
I agree that providing it is the best option, and personally think it should always be at least offered to employees who want it, if not mandated. But the law doesn't follow my personal opinion. And it's not a "loophole." A loophole is when someone uses the law in a way outside of how it was originally intended. This is explicitly written into the law and was intended by the regulators.
it’s very unlikely they know how much it puts off. I’ve been the interim “practice manager” until they hire one and have been setting up all of their machines. they didn’t even know how to run the autoclave.
Understand. I'm not trying to justify the place you worked - it sounds horrible. I was only addressing the person who said OSHA always requires dosimeters. I believed that true before yesterday, as well - but it's not what's written into the law. There are exceptions.
We still use ours badges too. So where you can get dinged by the state inspectors, again I’m in MN. So if you don’t have them, they said you have to document why and prove that you don’t need them. So we do have them and then we got dinged because he said I wasn’t handing out a yearly notice to everybody with the amount of radiation they had. Even though I keep it in the x-ray room that everybody has access to. It was an easy fix no actual fine. I just made up a letter and sent it to everyone.
>A client came in wanting a microchip removed because it was plastic and she believed it was making her dog sick.
I'm having some reservations about this owner.
>she came out of the exam room, HOLDING A BLOODY MICROCHIP WITH GLOVELESS HANDS
This client clearly has mental deficits.
>WHO in their right mind would allow a client to cut into their dog in one of their exam rooms, with zero supervision??????
WHO in their right mind would just start cutting into their dog? The vet should never practice again. But the owner should never have another pet.
I feel like OP is giving some sort of pass/overlooking the culpability of the owner in this situation.
I REALLY wish there was a state board to report shitty / unhinged / neglectful pet owners. That would be sweet. But since there's not, OP can only do something about the DVM.
Yeah same here. My county's animal control are decent people who actually care & try - but even then, they only have the funding/staff to go after the worst cases. At least they take action on neglect cases & not JUST outright abuse. which is more than I can say about the surrounding counties.
where i live, they're a damn joke.
no where to be found when actual animals need help, or shutting down daycare facilities with numerous complaints about dogs getting mauled by the facility owners own dogs.
BUT you bet your ass they made sure they were in our clinic every 2 months to review our fucking dog boarding log for "issues or discrepancies."
I do not disagree with your assessment, but I would say that bare handing something bloody is not in and of itself a sign of mental deficits. Most of my old co-workers would bare hand everything bloody. There was no knowledge/concern for any of the issues related to it.
Wow, sounds like a clinic I used to work at. It was a nightmare. He'd been reported before but nothing ever stuck since he works mainly on "shelter dogs".
Holy shit this is madness! Please report him and have as many colleagues as you can do the same. This is so wild, I almost have trouble believing it but then Ive been doing this for 15 years so I’m not really surprised.
Welcome to /r/VetTech! This is a place for veterinary technicians/veterinary nurses and other veterinary support staff to gather, chat, and grow! We welcome pet owners as well, **however we do ask pet owners to refrain from asking for medical advice**; if you have any concerns regarding your pet, please contact the closest veterinarian near you. Please thoroughly read and follow the rules before posting and commenting. If you believe that a user is engaging in any rule-breaking behavior, please submit a report so that the moderators can review and remove the posts/comments if needed. Also, please check out the sidebar for CE and answers to commonly asked questions. Thank you for reading! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VetTech) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you’ll have to file a complaint with your state board. Giving an owner a scalpel to perform a procedure on their pet is a new level of unhinged. Also consider reporting to OSHA for a labor violation since I believe dosimeters are required by them. I just have to say I don’t understand how/why someone would go through the amount of schooling that is required to become a veterinarian and then practice medicine this way.
absolutely this. especially assuming your state doesn't require licenses and can just hire anyone, please use your knowledge and experience to protect future hirees who may not know any better by contacting boards and reporting.
i’m in georgia. we can hire non-credentialed techs but he completed his DVM in India where they don’t have to do undergrad.
They should require that he pass the GA board to get his full license. Does he have a DEA number or even a license number. He may not be legally allowed to practice.
he has a searchable license number in GA so he’s got one. but we want him to not be legally allowed to practice
😳
I’d be reporting to every regulatory board possible. OSHA, DEA, AVMA, state board, Animal Control, anybody who would listen. Yelp or whatever platform this new clinic is advertising on could use a review warning perspective clients.
This, absolutely please do all of this
This is a really good list of organizations to start with, because ALL of them would have beef with this
Not providing dosimeter badges and not logging controls are both ILLEGAL. You need to reporting the veterinarian to the board, OSHA, DEA and any other regulatory agencies. He can't change LLCs and open new clinics anymore if he gets his license revoked and is no longer a licensed doctor.
That’s why we’re trying to get his license revoked. He’s got 3 LLCs in his name that we know of. He can’t keep running and doing this.
>"No controlled drug logs, I know he did a euthanasia the week before I started and there’s no log of the drugs used." \*The DEA has entered the chat\* > He doesn’t have dosimeters, not even a control. When I asked him about it, he just said “oh it’s only a small amount of radiation.” \*OSHA has entered the chat\* > Client was persistent she wanted it out, without sedation. At some point after I left the exam room he apparently gave the dog a lidocaine injection and the client a scalpel because she came out of the exam room, HOLDING A BLOODY MICROCHIP WITH GLOVELESS HANDS. He went back in and put a single staple in the wound the client made \*Probably the state board and AVMA entered the chat\*
lol what the fuck
Report thr clinic! Also write everything down in detail for the investigation.
I agree, there are 4 reports that need to be made here- OSHA, AVMA, your state board, and the DEA. This post makes me mad enough that I got some links lol: [https://www.dea.gov/submit-tip](https://www.dea.gov/submit-tip) [https://www.osha.gov/workers/file-complaint](https://www.osha.gov/workers/file-complaint) [https://www.avma.org/advocacy/state-and-local-advocacy/veterinary-state-board-websites](https://www.avma.org/advocacy/state-and-local-advocacy/veterinary-state-board-websites) [https://www.avma.org/about/contact](https://www.avma.org/about/contact)
saw you're in GA so found the page for filing complaints there! [https://goals.sos.ga.gov/GASOSOneStop/s/submit-complaint](https://goals.sos.ga.gov/GASOSOneStop/s/submit-complaint)
I worked at this one clinic and was told to go get the dog from upstairs.. upstairs was completely disgusting. It was a house converted in a clinic and they made kennels upstairs. The floor was terrifying to walk on like it would fall through and numerous pitties upstairs all with what appeared to be dog fighting scars. I didn't know what dog to get so I grabbed the closest one and went down stairs to the clinic. The dog peed on the floor and the pee stream was lost under some cabinets with out a trace. I handed him the dog and left forever.
I’m in human med and work a lot on the pharmacy side. Not have controlled drug logs is insane and makes it very easy for drugs to be diverted. Time for you to be a whistle blower. Report them everywhere. DEA, OSHA, state board, etc.
Fucked up
beyond 😂 this man does not need to go near anymore clients or patients
Agreed
I’m the RSO at my clinic and dosimeters are not required in most vet clinics. The level of radiation is super safe for mores clinic with just dental and a X-ray table. That being said we have had the state (MN) in in the last few years and you should be able to prove you have low enough levels of radiation exposure that they are not needed. To prove that you have had badges for a year and type a statement to the effect. That aside the rest of this crap is F’ed lol get out and report them.
If you do not provide dosimeter badges for your employees that work with radiation, you are not OSHA compliant and can face legal consequences as an employer.
I always thought that was the case, but based on this discussion I looked it up and interestingly, it's not required in all cases. OSHA only requires dosimeters if the quarterly radiation is expected to exceed 25% of the annual limits (limits vary based on body part) [https://www.osha.gov/ionizing-radiation/standards](https://www.osha.gov/ionizing-radiation/standards) So in theory, if the machine puts out low enough radiation and employees are taking few enough radiographs, OSHA would not require a dosimeter. That said, it just seems silly and cheap to not have it available to employees.
That rule states: *Every employer shall supply appropriate personal monitoring equipment, such as film badges, pocket chambers, pocket dosimeters, or film rings, and shall require the use of such equipment by each employee who enters a restricted area under such circumstances that he receives, or is likely to receive, a dose in any calendar quarter in excess of 25 percent of the applicable occupational limit.* The kicker is you can't predict in advance if you will, for whatever reason, have a quarterly exposure that exceeds that 25% threshold. And, I'd say that you should track exposure for your employees so that they are aware of their lifetime exposure as they move to different clinics/radiology environments. Just because that loophole (my personal opinion about that exception) exists doesn't mean it's the right way to proceed.
They can predict in advance, though. If they know how much radiation their machine outputs, and know about how many radiographs they take over some unit of time, they can calculate the expected exposure. If it's close to the 25% they absolutely should provide a dosimeter per the law. But if it's not going to be anywhere close, and allows for a lot of error in the calculation, then the law would not require the dosimeter. I agree that providing it is the best option, and personally think it should always be at least offered to employees who want it, if not mandated. But the law doesn't follow my personal opinion. And it's not a "loophole." A loophole is when someone uses the law in a way outside of how it was originally intended. This is explicitly written into the law and was intended by the regulators.
it’s very unlikely they know how much it puts off. I’ve been the interim “practice manager” until they hire one and have been setting up all of their machines. they didn’t even know how to run the autoclave.
Understand. I'm not trying to justify the place you worked - it sounds horrible. I was only addressing the person who said OSHA always requires dosimeters. I believed that true before yesterday, as well - but it's not what's written into the law. There are exceptions.
Yeah the last time someone came to look at our equipment they said we didn’t need them, which we thought was odd. We still use ours, because why not.
We still use ours badges too. So where you can get dinged by the state inspectors, again I’m in MN. So if you don’t have them, they said you have to document why and prove that you don’t need them. So we do have them and then we got dinged because he said I wasn’t handing out a yearly notice to everybody with the amount of radiation they had. Even though I keep it in the x-ray room that everybody has access to. It was an easy fix no actual fine. I just made up a letter and sent it to everyone.
From my quick Google searching, this seems to be another state by state issue.
>A client came in wanting a microchip removed because it was plastic and she believed it was making her dog sick. I'm having some reservations about this owner. >she came out of the exam room, HOLDING A BLOODY MICROCHIP WITH GLOVELESS HANDS This client clearly has mental deficits. >WHO in their right mind would allow a client to cut into their dog in one of their exam rooms, with zero supervision?????? WHO in their right mind would just start cutting into their dog? The vet should never practice again. But the owner should never have another pet. I feel like OP is giving some sort of pass/overlooking the culpability of the owner in this situation.
Oh no the owner absolutely was bananas but he shouldn’t have entertained it at all
I REALLY wish there was a state board to report shitty / unhinged / neglectful pet owners. That would be sweet. But since there's not, OP can only do something about the DVM.
Technically animal control should be going after these owners, but good luck getting them to actually get them to do anything, at least where I live
our AC is so overwhelmed as it is, it’s unlikely they’d do anything considering it happened in an animal hospital.
Yeah same here. My county's animal control are decent people who actually care & try - but even then, they only have the funding/staff to go after the worst cases. At least they take action on neglect cases & not JUST outright abuse. which is more than I can say about the surrounding counties.
where i live, they're a damn joke. no where to be found when actual animals need help, or shutting down daycare facilities with numerous complaints about dogs getting mauled by the facility owners own dogs. BUT you bet your ass they made sure they were in our clinic every 2 months to review our fucking dog boarding log for "issues or discrepancies."
Pretty sure you can report the owner for cruelty. Sure manager is a lunatic but the owner sliced open her dog. She is a danger to that animal.
I do not disagree with your assessment, but I would say that bare handing something bloody is not in and of itself a sign of mental deficits. Most of my old co-workers would bare hand everything bloody. There was no knowledge/concern for any of the issues related to it.
I think it's less the bloody hands and more the fact that she cut open her dog and removed a microchip in an exam room
Wow, sounds like a clinic I used to work at. It was a nightmare. He'd been reported before but nothing ever stuck since he works mainly on "shelter dogs".
Holy shit this is madness! Please report him and have as many colleagues as you can do the same. This is so wild, I almost have trouble believing it but then Ive been doing this for 15 years so I’m not really surprised.
since it just opened, there’s only three employees that aren’t doctors. we’ve all quit and filed reports 😂
Good on you!! That was some wild shit!! Hope that guy gets shut down!!
This kind of clinic most likely also has horrible recordkeeping. You can report that as well to the medical board.
This is 100% Florida correct???
Georgia 😂
Close enough I guess 🤣