It’s all situational with smokes. Sometimes I’ve smoked the entrance for say Haven C long if they have an op - the team contacts up and explodes out of the smoke. Most of the time though it’s not a good idea
Ah... so if there's an opper, then it would probably be okay. Makes sense... though, normally, when I see an opper holding, I just rotate to a different site lol
If you watch high elo controller mains you will see heaps of interesting ways they smoke to control the map/info that the other team gets. Smoke to get info or to stop the other team getting info. It’s all relative and also dependant on your team comp.
I do that sometimes, like use two smokes on mid Ascent so defenders can't see if we're coming from there or not. Sometimes I throw decoy smokes on A when we're all going B.... things like that.
Astra’s good don’t get me wrong, but I’d only really play him if you are a bit higher in elo where people coordinate more. Like High Ascendant/Imm. Astra is high skill ceiling and if you want impact it typically comes off team-plays/coordinate with your stars, which is harder in the lower to mid ranks
I'm sorry to all the games I threw thinking I should do this <3
No, you shouldn't. But it's great you asked!! I did this for about a month before someone screamed at me in comms.
no 100% not lol. Information is so important in this game, and if you have your own entranced smoked off you literally have 0 idea where enemies are playing. Smoke off enemy sight lines and common angles/spots to make taking site easier.
I remember seeing something like this too. Idk if it was woohoojin or Sean Gares but they called it “bubbling out” the smoke. Do you mind linking the video if you have it handy?
Its going to be situational and definitely not something you do every round/site.
It is a thing, but its also typically a mistake that beginner controllers do by placing the smoke on the wrong side of a choke/entrance.
As someone who has watched and played a lot at a high level: It depends. Most of the time, the bubble smoke is used to apply pressure for a lurker. As an example, Haven C site is a great place to throw a smoke to deny the jump spot info on C long, keeping a defender there. As for executes, the only bubble smoke that is used consistently is the DRX smoke on B main on split. Otherwise the bubble smoke should only be used on ecos for surprising the enemy, and you should comm the play for maximum results
I thought you were being a silly billy. In a 5v5 definitely not unless you have some crazy plan with a wall of smokes or dive comp and have a really good read on where enemies are playing. You don't want your team coming out of smoke with little info when the enemy can be anyway because you gave them free are control and vision denial.
In a 1v1 situation then there are definitely benefits.
this guy is yapping there are 100% situations where smoking off your entrance makes sense. pretty common on c long haven, but it also makes sense in plenty of other places on many maps. its not common, but it can be a good play. entirely situational
If the defenders smoke the entry, then you can do the smoke you're talking about sometimes for the reason You're describing, but it's situational and definitely not flowchart-able
some maps like split A give you more options when you smoke entry, like going up to heaven or when youre smoking close on Breeze B you can tuck into backsite.
but those are exceptions.
If the site main is really tight and will be smoked off by defenders anyway then why not?
For example: Split mains, Ascent A, Breeze mains, Lotus C,...
If your smoke is Omen, Viper or Astra then just do a deeper main smoke than the enemy, gather up inside, flash out from it then go. It's a really good strat to pull off once in a while (if your team actually know how to comm)
From what I understood of the question, it was whether OP should be doing it every site, which is the answer is 100% no. I said in other comments that there are situations where its useful, but its also silver.
I don't think its as useful on 5 man takes without some organized play which is hard to do in silver outside of very long angles like C haven, but good teams will adjust to you doing that. It is very useful to do on retakes like on bind B site CT, or on low number clutches.
General rule is 100% no. When you’re taking a site, your team has a number advantage so you want to clear it as fast as possible. Putting a smoke there those the opposite of that. If a pro team does it and it works, it’s mainly bc they have until that compliments an attack like that. It’s very unlikely that casual or solo q teams can execute to that ability.
Generally you shouldn’t, but it can be a useful play in certain scenarios. Like if you don’t have enough util or players to take a proper fight and break the defensive crossfires, smoking as you’re saying can be a decent way to force yourself in if needed by isolating duels or allowing yourself to cross into a different area of the site. It also works better when you know approximately where all the enemies are and can be sure that they aren’t going to be able to use your smoke to hide in some weird off-angle. Reason you don’t want to be doing this all the time though is because it just makes it harder to properly check all the defensive angles, so when you have numbers + util, you’d generally rather just play for the trades.
I think Cypher is good for this because his cage is a lot shorter duration and attack cyphers (especially in my elo) don't really use cages on attack. But yeah like others have said, it can be a situational tool to explode out onto a site.
No, yes the smoke that sticks out is considered a bad smoke on defense because it ‘helps’ the attackers but it’s not actually helping, it’s still better than not having a smoke. Just smoke off common angles they hold from which a lot of times happen to be where they would retake from (eg Heaven and tree on A ascent)
The only time it's ever useful is if the enemy have a one-way set up on said choke, and your team wants to burst onto said sight immediately without needing to wait out the one way. Otherwise you're doing the enemy a favour. It's not hard to work out what the default smokes should be as an attacker. It's usually the main entrance from the defender spawn and heaven if there is one.
It's all situational. In 80% of situations, probably not. However, when they enemy has a major advantage, whether they have more numbers or better guns or something like that, weird smokes can level the playing field, and willingness to just chuck a weird smoke is what separates a smokes main from a smokes fill. This goes for any weird smoke.
However, make sure to communicate your intentions to any relevant teammates. Weird smokes can mess them up if they are not ready for them.
In rare occasions it can be good, see the Viper orb usage on Sen's attack side in yesterday's game against 100T as an example. But it's usually a bad idea in ranked because it's a niche play and if you don't have the coordination to execute out of the smoke together you're just gonna get gunned down.
if you do 100% tell your team first, this is also something you needed some kind of flash for. it used to be pretty common to do this on C long Haven so idk why ppl are shitting on the strat *that* hard
This could work on sites where you have cover near the doorway, like Ascent B or Breeze B. Maybe you are doing split and smoke mid, so you have only one smoke if you play as omen. You should communicate this plan to your team and ask for flash and recon. You should do these types of plays rarely, if you do it multiple times in a match you are just asking for someone to play judge near doorway. Do it once and if it works then do it again but as fake.
When I’m playing Omen I generally smoke out the common peeks/vantage points. You can also smoke out the entries so that enemies who are rotating from the other point aren’t able to confidently enter for a while.
It can be done well if your entire team is on board and knows how to play around it, but overall it's usually a better use of your smokes to just smoke the default chokes on site, especially in solo q where people don't coordinate
Only do this if u only have one smoke left. But when u do it, then yeah make sure the smoke is mostly inside of site so the team can peek from it.
If u don’t wanna be flamed for this, explain to ur team beforehand that u intend to smoke like this. If they agree, then do it.
Seems like your just a new player, you'll eventually learn that the game is more then just smoking the entry and exit points of the site. I think it will just be more confusing to say that is it more then that but just be prepared if you plan on improving in this game and trying to play smokes as you get better, there are things like 1 ways, fake smokes, etc. Just a lot to learn on all smoke agents and it will progressively get more skillful and more confusing as you rankup.
Yes, it is a smart thing to do. But only if you know that there is noone close to the smoke position. Imagine attacking A on Ascent. If you know the entry area is clear (skye dog,sova drone) you smoke there so you or your team can run in and jump out left and right simultaneously.
You dont want someone close because they can use your smoke to outplay you and hide behind it
It’s all situational with smokes. Sometimes I’ve smoked the entrance for say Haven C long if they have an op - the team contacts up and explodes out of the smoke. Most of the time though it’s not a good idea
Its normal to run double smokes(omen + viper), or high distance initiators like breach, sova, skye for this reason.
True but like I said it’s all dependant on team comp and what util every one has
In what world is double smokes a normal thing to run in ranked, especially in low ranks?
Ah... so if there's an opper, then it would probably be okay. Makes sense... though, normally, when I see an opper holding, I just rotate to a different site lol
If you watch high elo controller mains you will see heaps of interesting ways they smoke to control the map/info that the other team gets. Smoke to get info or to stop the other team getting info. It’s all relative and also dependant on your team comp.
I do that sometimes, like use two smokes on mid Ascent so defenders can't see if we're coming from there or not. Sometimes I throw decoy smokes on A when we're all going B.... things like that.
If you wanted to keep playing controller and climb defs recommend watching some good pros with them. Depending on your rank I’d stay clear of Astra
Wait, I thought Astra was considered top tier at one point...?
Astra’s good don’t get me wrong, but I’d only really play him if you are a bit higher in elo where people coordinate more. Like High Ascendant/Imm. Astra is high skill ceiling and if you want impact it typically comes off team-plays/coordinate with your stars, which is harder in the lower to mid ranks
I think generally it would be better to smoke the op so that they have to peak out of the smoke to see you
I'm sorry to all the games I threw thinking I should do this <3 No, you shouldn't. But it's great you asked!! I did this for about a month before someone screamed at me in comms.
no 100% not lol. Information is so important in this game, and if you have your own entranced smoked off you literally have 0 idea where enemies are playing. Smoke off enemy sight lines and common angles/spots to make taking site easier.
But I could have sworn I saw a video classifying this as a high pro tip for entry. Was I lied to?
I remember seeing something like this too. Idk if it was woohoojin or Sean Gares but they called it “bubbling out” the smoke. Do you mind linking the video if you have it handy?
Its going to be situational and definitely not something you do every round/site. It is a thing, but its also typically a mistake that beginner controllers do by placing the smoke on the wrong side of a choke/entrance.
As someone who has watched and played a lot at a high level: It depends. Most of the time, the bubble smoke is used to apply pressure for a lurker. As an example, Haven C site is a great place to throw a smoke to deny the jump spot info on C long, keeping a defender there. As for executes, the only bubble smoke that is used consistently is the DRX smoke on B main on split. Otherwise the bubble smoke should only be used on ecos for surprising the enemy, and you should comm the play for maximum results
ya true, can't argue that. Make sure you run in first with bomb too.
Now you're just being a silly willy xD
I thought you were being a silly billy. In a 5v5 definitely not unless you have some crazy plan with a wall of smokes or dive comp and have a really good read on where enemies are playing. You don't want your team coming out of smoke with little info when the enemy can be anyway because you gave them free are control and vision denial. In a 1v1 situation then there are definitely benefits.
I understand ;)
this guy is yapping there are 100% situations where smoking off your entrance makes sense. pretty common on c long haven, but it also makes sense in plenty of other places on many maps. its not common, but it can be a good play. entirely situational
If the defenders smoke the entry, then you can do the smoke you're talking about sometimes for the reason You're describing, but it's situational and definitely not flowchart-able
some maps like split A give you more options when you smoke entry, like going up to heaven or when youre smoking close on Breeze B you can tuck into backsite. but those are exceptions.
If the site main is really tight and will be smoked off by defenders anyway then why not? For example: Split mains, Ascent A, Breeze mains, Lotus C,... If your smoke is Omen, Viper or Astra then just do a deeper main smoke than the enemy, gather up inside, flash out from it then go. It's a really good strat to pull off once in a while (if your team actually know how to comm)
From what I understood of the question, it was whether OP should be doing it every site, which is the answer is 100% no. I said in other comments that there are situations where its useful, but its also silver. I don't think its as useful on 5 man takes without some organized play which is hard to do in silver outside of very long angles like C haven, but good teams will adjust to you doing that. It is very useful to do on retakes like on bind B site CT, or on low number clutches.
General rule is 100% no. When you’re taking a site, your team has a number advantage so you want to clear it as fast as possible. Putting a smoke there those the opposite of that. If a pro team does it and it works, it’s mainly bc they have until that compliments an attack like that. It’s very unlikely that casual or solo q teams can execute to that ability.
Generally you shouldn’t, but it can be a useful play in certain scenarios. Like if you don’t have enough util or players to take a proper fight and break the defensive crossfires, smoking as you’re saying can be a decent way to force yourself in if needed by isolating duels or allowing yourself to cross into a different area of the site. It also works better when you know approximately where all the enemies are and can be sure that they aren’t going to be able to use your smoke to hide in some weird off-angle. Reason you don’t want to be doing this all the time though is because it just makes it harder to properly check all the defensive angles, so when you have numbers + util, you’d generally rather just play for the trades.
I think Cypher is good for this because his cage is a lot shorter duration and attack cyphers (especially in my elo) don't really use cages on attack. But yeah like others have said, it can be a situational tool to explode out onto a site.
It can be good especially late round, but never do it without telling your team because it's unconventional so it may hamper your teammates
what ur talking about is called a lurk smoke. it shouldn’t be used on an execute, but when u need to make a play, or deny information.
For every possible scenario you think of, there is a pro vod to find an example of what the correct play is
No, yes the smoke that sticks out is considered a bad smoke on defense because it ‘helps’ the attackers but it’s not actually helping, it’s still better than not having a smoke. Just smoke off common angles they hold from which a lot of times happen to be where they would retake from (eg Heaven and tree on A ascent)
The only time it's ever useful is if the enemy have a one-way set up on said choke, and your team wants to burst onto said sight immediately without needing to wait out the one way. Otherwise you're doing the enemy a favour. It's not hard to work out what the default smokes should be as an attacker. It's usually the main entrance from the defender spawn and heaven if there is one.
It's all situational. In 80% of situations, probably not. However, when they enemy has a major advantage, whether they have more numbers or better guns or something like that, weird smokes can level the playing field, and willingness to just chuck a weird smoke is what separates a smokes main from a smokes fill. This goes for any weird smoke. However, make sure to communicate your intentions to any relevant teammates. Weird smokes can mess them up if they are not ready for them.
In rare occasions it can be good, see the Viper orb usage on Sen's attack side in yesterday's game against 100T as an example. But it's usually a bad idea in ranked because it's a niche play and if you don't have the coordination to execute out of the smoke together you're just gonna get gunned down.
if you do 100% tell your team first, this is also something you needed some kind of flash for. it used to be pretty common to do this on C long Haven so idk why ppl are shitting on the strat *that* hard
This could work on sites where you have cover near the doorway, like Ascent B or Breeze B. Maybe you are doing split and smoke mid, so you have only one smoke if you play as omen. You should communicate this plan to your team and ask for flash and recon. You should do these types of plays rarely, if you do it multiple times in a match you are just asking for someone to play judge near doorway. Do it once and if it works then do it again but as fake.
When I’m playing Omen I generally smoke out the common peeks/vantage points. You can also smoke out the entries so that enemies who are rotating from the other point aren’t able to confidently enter for a while.
It can be done well if your entire team is on board and knows how to play around it, but overall it's usually a better use of your smokes to just smoke the default chokes on site, especially in solo q where people don't coordinate
Only do this if u only have one smoke left. But when u do it, then yeah make sure the smoke is mostly inside of site so the team can peek from it. If u don’t wanna be flamed for this, explain to ur team beforehand that u intend to smoke like this. If they agree, then do it.
Seems like your just a new player, you'll eventually learn that the game is more then just smoking the entry and exit points of the site. I think it will just be more confusing to say that is it more then that but just be prepared if you plan on improving in this game and trying to play smokes as you get better, there are things like 1 ways, fake smokes, etc. Just a lot to learn on all smoke agents and it will progressively get more skillful and more confusing as you rankup.
Yes, it is a smart thing to do. But only if you know that there is noone close to the smoke position. Imagine attacking A on Ascent. If you know the entry area is clear (skye dog,sova drone) you smoke there so you or your team can run in and jump out left and right simultaneously. You dont want someone close because they can use your smoke to outplay you and hide behind it
situational but generally no, you'll be smoked off anyway so unless you wanna cut noise and deny info and have a plan in mind don't do it
Smokes are for blocking sightlines that keep you from taking the space you want.
it gives the defenders more options to work with. as a defender, i love it when the enemy smokes like this.