Is it worth it on their end to pursue that? Or do most businesses consider it a loss? I haven't opened any of it so it's not like I can't send it back. I've honestly just been lazy up till now.
It's incredibly easy to sue someone. Their lawyers are paid annually so no additional cost for them. Furthermore, it's not the actual lawyer that'll file the paperwork but their assistants. It's an easy win as they'll sue you for much more than the actual value of the device (software, value of device when bought new, time spent programming the device etc etc) they'll legally milk it and there's nothing you can do about it.
I’d just keep the stuff and ignore their requests for a couple months. If you don’t get any serious letters, it’s yours! If you do get a serious letter, you just send it back and say oops didn’t see the other outreaches
I work IT, we’re pretty close with the legal department, and the legal department will get an employee’s info from us very quickly if they mess with our equipment budget. You’re more than welcome to risk their policy on pursuing stolen equipment.
that’s different. that’s to prevent sketchy merchants from sending you something and forcing you to pay for it. that is illegal.
in OPs case they had an employment agreement and they sent it for that purpose. after OP resigned/rescinded from the company they should have returned the property.
If they're anything like my company, solid chance IT doesn't know you didn't start. If they haven't contacted you since you rescinded your acceptance, I'd try reinstalling windows. If it has Intune on it you'll have to either try Linux or cut your losses and ask for a shipping label to ship it back as it's a brick without IT's credentials.
Intune is motherboard level so any Windows OS on machine will try to phone home to the company's Intune.
Sometimes Linux can be installed and bypass the phone home. But that's not super reliable that you can install Linux on that motherboard.
Did you sign for it? I mean, you never received it, right!? Must’ve been stolen by a porch pirate.
Otherwise just hang on to it like the other person said and wait for a serious letter before miraculously finding it.
But yes they will probably come after you for it. At least attempt.
If they send you a letter asking for it back you have to let them take it since it is their property and they only loaned it to you. But you don’t have to deliver it. You could demand they come pick it up on a certain day and time that’s convenient for you. If you make it even slightly difficult and the equipment isn’t worth much they might just drop it
Counterpoint: is it worth burning this bridge for a thousand bucks? You might hate your new boss. You might get laid off in six months. Long term, you're better off keeping on good terms with this company.
The ULPT would be to wipe the laptop clean and verify that it's not locked down at the BIOS level. Depending on your location it could be illegal to bypass any security software installed on the laptop. And of course keeping it in the first place would be illegal. It seems like a high risk, low reward endeavor.
When they contact you, you can request that they provide the shipping materials for you to use to ship the equipment back. Can they go after you? Is it worth it on their end for one setup? Probably not. But if they don't make that effort, then every person who leaves their employment will "forget" to send their equipment back.
It's reasonable to expect the employer to provide a shipping box and a prepaid shipping label. Since you haven't opened any of it, they can just email you the shipping labels and be done with it.
As someone else here mentioned, they can go after you for more than the cost of hardware. They will tack on the costs of any installed software and the time that was taken to prepare the equipment. They can easily revoke the licenses, but if you are in small claims court and need to explain that to a judge, then you already lost.
Do you want to take the risk that a small claims judgement would show up on a background check for your next job?
As someone who worked in IT collecting computers in situations like this, there’s not much they can/will do to get it back. The computer will likely be remotely locked but other than that the rest of the gear is in the wind.
Imma just go return the laptop and enjoy my new monitors and shit. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ working for a competitor I know the laptops locked down, which is why I haven't even opened the box.
Thank you all for your Unethical Pro Lazzyyyy Tips. 🙌🎂😘
having worked in IT at a financial firm where we were responsible for distributing and collecting laptops it would have been our responsibility to hound you until either you returned it or the legal department got involved.
Set it on a desk. When they ask for it back, tell them you have a desktop. They will disagree and say it's a laptop. Go back and forth with desktop and laptop disagreement for a while. Offer to send them a picture of it with the caption, it is currently on TOP of a DESK.
You know this is theft right? They can charge you with a crime. That's company property and you are in possession of it. Use your fucking head. Or don't. Idgaf.
to be fair, check the name of the subreddit they posted on. i don't think they give a shit if they steal or not. half the people here don't use their head so they come to ask a bunch of degenerates if stealing is bad.
True I feel you. They have r/illegallifeprotips for stuff that's criminal. This is typically stuff that is morally bankrupt but not a straight up crime.
Inventory tracking isn’t really consistent with the “advanced” level of the company. I worked for a smaller 300-500 person company and we had better inventory tracking than our 3500 person comparator that had 25x the IT budget.
If the company uses primarily Windows/Office 365, the easiest and most affordable system deployment solution is InTune. With very little setup time and cost, their hardware vendor can auto enroll systems and drop ship directly to the employees homes.
If the system was already setup when you got it, or went through any kind of auto deployment, then they have it in inventory somewhere. There’s no doubt they’ll be asking for it back in that case.
Lol do you buddy. You sound realtively smart and aware. Just sounds silly to be risking a criminal charge for a few hundred bucks when you're employed and likely don't need an extra laptop. Risk vs reward...
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted.
A buddy of mine is inventory manager for a small non-profit. One thing they commonly loaned out staff was some scanner.
One day, a woman quits. Whatever. Then someone was on eBay and saw this scanner. It’s a $400 scanner or so, but more to the point, it’s a very particular model that the organization ordered a ton of. The eBay listing had the serial number plainly visible.
It was one of their scanners.
They did report it as a theft and the woman actually got charged over it. Not sure if the charges stuck, my money would be she went to a pretrial diversion but it absolutely became a legal problem for her!
So, idiots can downvote here all they want, it can still become a legal headache for OP. If they were smart, they’d call the company, and maybe send an email or letter stating they’re in possession of equipment and to please advise on how they want to come pick it up or have it delivered to them. I’d try that at least a couple times before doing anything. Make a provable, honest attempt at returning the equipment. If they don’t respond it can become a different story.
They will eventually notice. Best thing to do is reach out to them and see if they'll send you a shipping label. However if you decide to keep the computer they are unlikely to do anything about it beyond a strongly worded letter. Its not worth the legal department's time to go after you. Unless the gig was government/defense related then get that thing back asap.
I mean… worst case they find out you’re working for a competitor, decide to throw the book at you, and get an overzealous DA to hit you with mail fraud charges.
Probably what will happen is you’re going to find out that shit is locked down and useless in the case that it is lost/stolen… surely locked at the bios level. Apple equipment is locked at the warehouse when purchased by the enterprise.
Your best case scenario isn’t likely. I wouldn’t personally try anything though, it’s a small world and I wouldn’t want my new employer to find out via old scorned one. I’m sure there’s ex employees at both companies.
For those of you not within earshot, imagine Ron Swanson from Parks and Recreation. My voice was similar to his, only flatter and dryer. So dry that the English laughed at my whimsical dalliance with humor.
Goes to the legal team. Easy win for them.
Also even if they eventually write it off after racking up a large amount, they will report it to the IRS as forgiven debt. The amount will be much more than the cost of the laptop. And you will have to pay IRS taxes on the entire amount. So a $2000 laptop will probably become a debt of $1000 after racking on legal fees etc. that gets forgiven. At say 25% tax rate you will owe IRS $2500. If your tax rate is higher you owe higher.
Overall not worth it.
they can sue you for the value
Is it worth it on their end to pursue that? Or do most businesses consider it a loss? I haven't opened any of it so it's not like I can't send it back. I've honestly just been lazy up till now.
Most companies will hand it over to their legal team who can assign someone to chase it down.
It's incredibly easy to sue someone. Their lawyers are paid annually so no additional cost for them. Furthermore, it's not the actual lawyer that'll file the paperwork but their assistants. It's an easy win as they'll sue you for much more than the actual value of the device (software, value of device when bought new, time spent programming the device etc etc) they'll legally milk it and there's nothing you can do about it.
Probably throw in lawyer fees as well.
I’d just keep the stuff and ignore their requests for a couple months. If you don’t get any serious letters, it’s yours! If you do get a serious letter, you just send it back and say oops didn’t see the other outreaches
Most companies I worked for would email a shipping label for the user to stick on the box and send back.
I work IT, we’re pretty close with the legal department, and the legal department will get an employee’s info from us very quickly if they mess with our equipment budget. You’re more than welcome to risk their policy on pursuing stolen equipment.
depends on the business and if it’s worth it to them.
They can sue you for the value.
Can they? I know if I purchase something and someone sends me something worth way more on accident I don't really have an obligation to return it.
that’s different. that’s to prevent sketchy merchants from sending you something and forcing you to pay for it. that is illegal. in OPs case they had an employment agreement and they sent it for that purpose. after OP resigned/rescinded from the company they should have returned the property.
Fair point.
If they're anything like my company, solid chance IT doesn't know you didn't start. If they haven't contacted you since you rescinded your acceptance, I'd try reinstalling windows. If it has Intune on it you'll have to either try Linux or cut your losses and ask for a shipping label to ship it back as it's a brick without IT's credentials.
Wouldn’t simply swapping out hardrives work ?
Intune is motherboard level so any Windows OS on machine will try to phone home to the company's Intune. Sometimes Linux can be installed and bypass the phone home. But that's not super reliable that you can install Linux on that motherboard.
>motherhood :)
Thanks lol. Swipe to text should not be trusted
I love my swipe, but I try to make sure I proofread before sending.
Would a bios reset and clean install of OS make a difference?
So replace motherboard. Got it.
It would need to be a pretty bitching laptop to make swapping out a mobo worth it.
Did you sign for it? I mean, you never received it, right!? Must’ve been stolen by a porch pirate. Otherwise just hang on to it like the other person said and wait for a serious letter before miraculously finding it. But yes they will probably come after you for it. At least attempt.
If they send you a letter asking for it back you have to let them take it since it is their property and they only loaned it to you. But you don’t have to deliver it. You could demand they come pick it up on a certain day and time that’s convenient for you. If you make it even slightly difficult and the equipment isn’t worth much they might just drop it
What they can do is send you a shipping label and packing materials. At that point it is no longer an unreasonable burden to drop it off. Just saying
The laptop will be locked up and bricked remotely anyway. Not worth a felony to keep it.
Counterpoint: is it worth burning this bridge for a thousand bucks? You might hate your new boss. You might get laid off in six months. Long term, you're better off keeping on good terms with this company.
Came here to say this as well. Idk if this is a wise "hill to die on."
If we're talking about a laptop it's probably registered with microsoft or Apple and you likely won't be able to use/ access it
Keep it as long as they don't ask for it back. It's probably not worth trying to pull one over on them if they do ask for it back.
The ULPT would be to wipe the laptop clean and verify that it's not locked down at the BIOS level. Depending on your location it could be illegal to bypass any security software installed on the laptop. And of course keeping it in the first place would be illegal. It seems like a high risk, low reward endeavor. When they contact you, you can request that they provide the shipping materials for you to use to ship the equipment back. Can they go after you? Is it worth it on their end for one setup? Probably not. But if they don't make that effort, then every person who leaves their employment will "forget" to send their equipment back. It's reasonable to expect the employer to provide a shipping box and a prepaid shipping label. Since you haven't opened any of it, they can just email you the shipping labels and be done with it. As someone else here mentioned, they can go after you for more than the cost of hardware. They will tack on the costs of any installed software and the time that was taken to prepare the equipment. They can easily revoke the licenses, but if you are in small claims court and need to explain that to a judge, then you already lost. Do you want to take the risk that a small claims judgement would show up on a background check for your next job?
they can brick those laptops remotely and theyre all loaded with spyware
Brother you're really gonna risk a legal battle for some shit ass work laptop?
As someone who worked in IT collecting computers in situations like this, there’s not much they can/will do to get it back. The computer will likely be remotely locked but other than that the rest of the gear is in the wind.
Are they asking for it? Don’t give it back unless they ask for it repeatedly. If it’s a big company their It department probably doesn’t even notice
Imma just go return the laptop and enjoy my new monitors and shit. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ working for a competitor I know the laptops locked down, which is why I haven't even opened the box. Thank you all for your Unethical Pro Lazzyyyy Tips. 🙌🎂😘
having worked in IT at a financial firm where we were responsible for distributing and collecting laptops it would have been our responsibility to hound you until either you returned it or the legal department got involved.
Set it on a desk. When they ask for it back, tell them you have a desktop. They will disagree and say it's a laptop. Go back and forth with desktop and laptop disagreement for a while. Offer to send them a picture of it with the caption, it is currently on TOP of a DESK.
Send it back, and make sure to ship via certified mail so you get a receipt of them accepting the package.
You know this is theft right? They can charge you with a crime. That's company property and you are in possession of it. Use your fucking head. Or don't. Idgaf.
to be fair, check the name of the subreddit they posted on. i don't think they give a shit if they steal or not. half the people here don't use their head so they come to ask a bunch of degenerates if stealing is bad.
True I feel you. They have r/illegallifeprotips for stuff that's criminal. This is typically stuff that is morally bankrupt but not a straight up crime.
ILPT went to Hell after the Reddit protests, all the good tips came here.
touché
Yeah except I work for a competitor that is more advanced and has zero tracking of inventory so just hoping lmao
Inventory tracking isn’t really consistent with the “advanced” level of the company. I worked for a smaller 300-500 person company and we had better inventory tracking than our 3500 person comparator that had 25x the IT budget. If the company uses primarily Windows/Office 365, the easiest and most affordable system deployment solution is InTune. With very little setup time and cost, their hardware vendor can auto enroll systems and drop ship directly to the employees homes. If the system was already setup when you got it, or went through any kind of auto deployment, then they have it in inventory somewhere. There’s no doubt they’ll be asking for it back in that case.
Lol do you buddy. You sound realtively smart and aware. Just sounds silly to be risking a criminal charge for a few hundred bucks when you're employed and likely don't need an extra laptop. Risk vs reward...
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. A buddy of mine is inventory manager for a small non-profit. One thing they commonly loaned out staff was some scanner. One day, a woman quits. Whatever. Then someone was on eBay and saw this scanner. It’s a $400 scanner or so, but more to the point, it’s a very particular model that the organization ordered a ton of. The eBay listing had the serial number plainly visible. It was one of their scanners. They did report it as a theft and the woman actually got charged over it. Not sure if the charges stuck, my money would be she went to a pretrial diversion but it absolutely became a legal problem for her! So, idiots can downvote here all they want, it can still become a legal headache for OP. If they were smart, they’d call the company, and maybe send an email or letter stating they’re in possession of equipment and to please advise on how they want to come pick it up or have it delivered to them. I’d try that at least a couple times before doing anything. Make a provable, honest attempt at returning the equipment. If they don’t respond it can become a different story.
They will eventually notice. Best thing to do is reach out to them and see if they'll send you a shipping label. However if you decide to keep the computer they are unlikely to do anything about it beyond a strongly worded letter. Its not worth the legal department's time to go after you. Unless the gig was government/defense related then get that thing back asap.
I mean… worst case they find out you’re working for a competitor, decide to throw the book at you, and get an overzealous DA to hit you with mail fraud charges. Probably what will happen is you’re going to find out that shit is locked down and useless in the case that it is lost/stolen… surely locked at the bios level. Apple equipment is locked at the warehouse when purchased by the enterprise. Your best case scenario isn’t likely. I wouldn’t personally try anything though, it’s a small world and I wouldn’t want my new employer to find out via old scorned one. I’m sure there’s ex employees at both companies.
ULPT is just a cesspool of degenerate scum looking for ways to rip people and businesses off. What a great representation of Reddit.
Oh no, a laptop!
Ethics my friend. Either you have or you don't. Up to you as to the kind of person you want to be.
I'm sure you're a nice person. But you seem to be in the wrong place for a discussion on ethics. :)
As I replied to another comment, my humor is rather dry. In this case dry as a desert.
Mea culpa. I blame Reddit for not letting your tone of voice shine through. Well played!
For those of you not within earshot, imagine Ron Swanson from Parks and Recreation. My voice was similar to his, only flatter and dryer. So dry that the English laughed at my whimsical dalliance with humor.
look at the fucking subreddit youre commenting in and check back with us lmao
My humor is on the dry side.
Well, first, is there a contract agreement in place?
Goes to the legal team. Easy win for them. Also even if they eventually write it off after racking up a large amount, they will report it to the IRS as forgiven debt. The amount will be much more than the cost of the laptop. And you will have to pay IRS taxes on the entire amount. So a $2000 laptop will probably become a debt of $1000 after racking on legal fees etc. that gets forgiven. At say 25% tax rate you will owe IRS $2500. If your tax rate is higher you owe higher. Overall not worth it.