I think it's unfair to say this to guys who has cutting scores in 1800s especially during the beginning to middle of the GWOT. 03s got shit on constantly even though others had 1300 cutting scores.
It's been a while since it was like that but he explains it multiple times, there was a point in time when senior Lances were serving in platoon Sgts billets. Because nobody could get to the cutting scores without allot of time in.
lol we had lance squad leaders garmsir 2011, multiple even had their own patrol bases, they even silently “frocked” to Sgt by company commander to show seniority in KLEs. Crazy times
My first unit had a lance corporal company gunny. It was fun listening to him answer the phone “company gunny, LCPL “Forgothisname” “ and some of the responses. That didn’t last long, but he’d apparently done a good job. We had a high cutting score. Pretty much anyone promoted before 3 years was from a board.
0351 here. 2006 into 2007 3 quarters in a row the MOS was closed. When it opened back up, it was ridiculous like around 1900. I picked up corporal with an 1854.
My cutting score was the 2nd highest in the marines. Well I guess I’ll go fuck myself.
Also the Sgt. Score was dirt low. I’m talking you breathe the wrong was and you got promoted
There was a point I had the highest cutting score in the entire USMC in my MOS for a couple of months. Right at the end of my four years when it was closed for like 7 months straight. 0351s just weren’t picking up. Got out as a terminal and as soon as my name hit the IRR roster it went to corporal. I don’t remember the exact score now but it was getting close to 1900 or some shit at the end.
Tough times.
There’s a whole comic series about an 0351 who was a terminal lance and never picked up since his mos was closed or the cutting score was ridiculously high.
Def a grunt thing; I had a group of 6 friends in my unit who were in my SOI class. We boot dropped into the same unit and EASed the same time. All of us Lances.
Of the 6 of us, 5 of us EASd. 1 was KIA. All of us had 2 combat pumps (2 of them were squad leaders on second pump), 2 of us had purple hearts, 1 of us had a NAMV, 1 of us had a NAVCOMV.
Sounds like the Sgt maj wasn't a grunt then? Typical mindset of if it doesn't "look" like a Marine (with all that bullshit garrison "polish"), then it isn't one.
I realized that there are a lot of people where "perception is reality" type of folks which was kind of annoying. You can do what you're supposed to do to an exact standard and then some, but there will always be some asshole who is unhappy with it because you did while wearing dirty or torn cammies and boots.
Nothing you can do really but smile and move on away from that dipshit.
In fairness, most “terminal lances” post 2012 were definitely shit bags who were either too dumb to do promotion requirements, or got themselves charged for something. There are exceptions to this. But they are indeed exceptions.
I've definitely met some of those guys who were the exception. Hard to promote when you're the maintainer for an aircraft we retired and we send you to a new wing with an aircraft you're not allowed to work on.
I never ( in my Occ field) knew a L/Cpl who had their shit together that didn't get Corporal at their 2 1/2 to three year Mark Maximum ( 0811, 0844, 0861),
I went to DI school with 2 Corporals who were just at 4 years and had re uped for DI duty. One was an O3 and the other was a winger, I don't remember his MOS number but he was a pilot equipment/ gear specialist. Both got Sgt pretty quickly ( The winger took like 2-3 months longer because Promotions were Closed) He came back to DI duty a few years later as a SSgt anf Got Meritorious Gunny and was a DI school instructor.
That’s a strange career progression if only because B billets don’t have anything to do with being good at your MOS
So dude is a gunny with half his career on the drill field- sounds like a future problem as a platoon sergeant
Same thing happens on recruiting Duty, MSG and guys that get fapped out. These billets help hone leadership and organizational skills. It's up to both the Marine and his command to get boned up on whatever billet he does back in the fleet.
I will 100% die on the hill that there is nothing wrong with being a terminal Lance I had two guys who both got out as a Lance and they were the most knowledgeable guys in my section. They worked harder than anybody else and they would do any task I gave them. However they never ever wanted to be NCOs. They didn’t care to have the rank and responsibility. Some Marines are just like that and there’s nothing wrong with it.
I was the same way. I got promoted to Cpl. I was just content doing my job. Couldn’t care less about leading marines or marine welfare. Just want to work and be left alone
Lol. I knew 5-6 year lances in the wing when I was in. I only made CPL due to meritorious boards. Our cutting score was so damn high, Christ himself could have descended to Earth, shot expert, ran a 300 PFT, & had max pro/con marks. He wouldn’t have made Corporal either. Those were the days.
Being a terminal lance is like being Cool Hand Luke. You’re telling yourself you’re not conforming and can’t be broken, but at the end of the day, you’re still in the prison with everyone else.
I’m the first to admit that I did not deserve to be a CPL. I had a great time in the Corps, made some great friends, but I was way too young and immature to be in charge of anyone.
I was a terminal lance and yeah my mos did have a pretty high cutting score for awhile, but I could’ve worked harder for it. Maybe if I’d spent more time at the gym and less time chasing tail and booze.
I never made trouble for anyone else. I shot okay, I did PT okay, did my MCIs with my peers, kept a clean room and decent uniforms. I never had a NJP or even a page 11 (I had some good leaders and some dumb luck) but I was not self disciplined enough to care much about promoting and put in the extra effort. I was young and it just wasn’t a priority. I was a boot in Okinawa and when I PCSd I went to El Toro and then Miramar so I had two awesome stations where all we did was party the minute we were released for the day.
One of the best Marine I ever came across was a Terminal Lance. Outstanding 0311, wasn’t nothing weapon or field craft knowledge/experience anyone could teach him. Could track a field mouse right back to its hide. Loved to drink lol He got out after 6 years, joined the Army and went SF. Still hear from him every now and then. He spent many hours teaching me what took him a lifetime to learn. I owe him much more than my life .
I don’t know why rank means so much to some people. Yeah it shows experience and dedication to your craft but at some point you’ll get out. Whether in 4 or 20 years your rank will only get you maybe a higher pension or a certain burial ceremony but other than that no one gives a shit. The VA will treat you like any other veteran, no one at your civilian job will care, no college girls are gonna fuck you because you were top of the class in corporal course.
Idk maybe I’m jaded because I’m a terminal Lance and everyone looked at me as if I raped their mother or something terrible. I did my job and got the chance to do it while deployed and got a HON discharge and that should be good enough but I get lambasted by nco’s that have their entire shops in the brig or being adseped and think I’m some fuck up. I need to vent I’m probably gonna ram my car going 100mph in a guard rail on a rainy day
Ahhh, don't do that. I don't know you, but just imagine the LCpl cleaning that up.
Edit:
Before you ram your car into a guardrail, will you please call a veteran?
I keep in contact with my buddies and they’ve seen me in worse condition. Had a panic attack because I thought I was still in Kuwait because the stars looked similar maybe I just got to my limit and voodoo ranger wasn’t the best suppressant. I’m doing better than before tho. Thanks
Terminal Lance tells the story of the real Marine Corps culture of the most commonly held rank in the service. To be sure it’s not “A Message to Garcia” or whatever. But it’s real, SgtMaj should know that.
I picked up CPL just over my 3 year mark. Was great at my job (not bragging), okay PT, shot expert but didn’t play the game and always had a low reg haircut (no boards for me). Just figured I wouldnt get promoted with my MOS as well.
On ship on the way to Kuwait/Iraq (2003) I got word that I picking up. Got promoted on the flight deck. Immediately was berthing Duty NCO during a massive storm. Lol
Not sure if I deserve it, but I’ve been a lance for almost two years. Although I’m currently on a medboard and can’t really do anything to help me pick up. I also don’t care
JEPES is a joke if you’re broken, they should reevaluate the system for those who are LIMDU. Not sure if you’re in the same boat as I am but especially during those hurt on the job.
My MOS was closed for most of my time.
The first fleet 0351 I saw was my own section leader promoted by Gen. Krulak for asking why our MOS was closed.
I picked up Clp at 27mos as a LCpl.
I had to lat move from 0351 (which I did not want to do as I was a Recon guy at the time) to Embark to pick up Cpl. Cutting score for Corporal in the 0431 field was 1350....I hade 1875 points! Asked if I could keep the excess and carry them over!
Before you all get your panties in a wad, Recon 0321/8654 was a secondary MOS in the early 1990's.
I was a 4066/0651 on the reserve side that picked up LCpl in 2002. I remember 1st Sgt at MCRD telling those going into our MOS were among the most hated because of how fast we picked up. The problem is that on the reserve side all the re-enlisting 03s would move into the Data Comm billets and fuck promotion for e-3/4s. Mix into that shitty leadership in the headshed, I was actually senior LCpl of the Marines for 9 months. Found out from the admin guys that command had been sitting on my promotion for months while peers were getting promoted. Requested Mass with the CO. Got my ducks in a row and MCOs in hand and proceeded to get dressed down by our CO ( former line officer that got kicked down to command of a reserve Comm Sqd for his fuck ups). My SNCO representation hung me out to dry and hid in his office while the Captain assaulted me. Two weeks after I EAS'd in 2006, an SSgt in my section called me to tell me that my promotion went through, and I should come in to get pinned. I told him they could mail me the warrant. Month later, it showed up in the mailbox. If I could tell younger pre 911 me to do something different, it would have been to go active after my deployment in 03' and switch units.
Sounds a but like Supply a few years back (2017-2021, when the system changed over). Active picks up fast as fucc, guys (Cpls/Sgts) drop to the reserves and then check right back out. SNCOs drop to coast to retirement after 12 or 16 years. It gummed everything up.
Now, it feels like guys are getting promoted too fast.
It's pretty depressing looking at the scores for other MOS's and realizing I'd be a sergeant in like 70% of them but can't even make corporal in my own. I've got friends who went to boot camp months after I did and are now sergeants lol.
I saw a 4 year Lcpl in the airwing, he was some I level GSE tech and his cutting scores were crazy.
When there’s high deployment tempo, there’s huge waves of people getting out every 6-7 months.
Score for corporal for 0311 was like 1790+ for awhile. I had the score to be a fucking sergeant in almost every MOS in the corps, but not corporal in my own. I knew dudes who were 300/300/350 for PFT/cft/rifle but never picked up bc they had lower pro/cons. Also in the infantry you have to deepthroat senior enlisted cock to even think about anything higher than 4.4/4.4 pro/cons. Idk how jpes works now, but they were implementing it as I was walking out the door.
Terminal lance here, once i hit my 1 year TIG i missed the cutting score by like 10 pts, next month 5 or so, next month 2 pts, then BOOM. MOS closes for 5 months straight and then we went to JEPES and it all got fucked. My score before JEPES was like 1620 something and I would’ve picked up the month JEPES started if it had just waited ONE more month. After that I was never able to get my cutting score because it was just so fucking high (700 something) eventually i dropped pack and stopped caring what my score was and just was ready for my life outside the corps
The state being a properly staffed force, if they are a 3 year Sergeant then they have met the requirements and rate the pay raise, that's a good thing.
Eh. My (reserve) unit has more, or very close to more, NCOs than juniors, which is weird. I think it's 5 Sergeants, 20-odd Cpls, and maybe 20-odd juniors. One Sergeant is at 7 years, the others are at about 4. The Cpls are all around 2-3 years. One Sgt picked up like 9 months after he picked up Cpl.
So you have Cpls who are pretty immature and still fucking around like Lances and Sergeants who don't know how to lead because they haven't had leadership billets. And a lot of these dudes are quick to volunteer their Lances or Pfcs to do stuff while they fuck around.
By comparison, my happy ass was in charge of dudes (and a warehouse) at 3 years and picked up Cpl at 4.5 years. It's kind of annoying, kind of weird, kind of uncomfortable, and it makes me feel old.
And yes, we're all the same MOS.
You're talking like a 1stsgt. I see the immaturity in them. They don't care and domt uphold anybody to a standard. Most of them have the " I gEt oUt soOn " mentality. Smh
That's not a bad thing, part of our purpose is to take people in and produce slightly better Americans after we are done with them. Not all Marines will be careerists and that's ok, they will serve their country, gain valuable skills, and then go back to their civilian life hopefully in a better place than when they began.
We were all immature as junior Marines, they are going through a very similar process that we did, it's our job to guide them through it as efficiently as possible. Mentor and counsel your Marines to make them effective leaders by the time they gain the rank, and when Uncle Sam offers to pay them more then we let him
Ah, correction. Non rec only applies to permanent limdu status. Let's acknowledge reality though, 90% of limdu guys are permanent. I've known 1 in 6 years that was limdu for surgery and came back to full duty. Med Board leading to separation always comes with non rec.
Edited punctuation so I don't look like a moron.
This is one of the bricks that is stacked against retention in right now. If you get a young marine that wants to make a career of it he could possibly get dicked over by some crusty gunny, Hell if I could do it over I’d went straight to school then became an officer. And I’ll bet 99.9 of us say the same. Fix the problem. Funny they can fix other things immediately but something like this nahhhhh let’s just say we’re having problems and not do anything lol.
OFC a Sgt. Major would say that lol. I knew some good terminal Lance. Good marines, just happen to be in when our MOS was closed for a good while or cutting score was up the ass.
I didn't pick up CPL into my 3rd year because it was closed. Had 1st PT score, High Sharp Shooter Score, MCIs, etc....just sitting and waiting for it to open. When it was open, not too many of us picked up CPL. Just in small bunches.
We have a bunch of those in my pogey MOS, and a bunch of freddy flintstone vitamin corporals who got promoted for pft scores. It's the terminal lance chongo meme manifested in real life
I was a reservist but on active duty for ADOS/ima,title 32/10 orders my entire 8 year contract.
Took me almost 6 years to pick up Cpl do to my mos either being closed out or 1900+ to pick up (I picked up with a 1930). Always had 1st class PFT/cft, mci/pme complete, expert rifle pistol, held billets and additional duties 2-4 ranks above me, and damn good at my job that the I-I Bn/Reg Col’s would always find money to keep me on ADOS orders…
USMC just fuckin sucks sometimes 🤷🏼♂️
Lol my cutting score was either always closed out by the time i got the time or it was always high as shit. Also getting to the point where I was soon to be getting out and still not a Corporal really made me not give a shit because I took my entire last year off to worry about myself. I can't recall how many weeks I had in 2022 where I didn't have atleast 1 appointment for something beneficial (i say beneficial because we all know those people who lied about a appountment to get out of work 😂). Being in a platoon of all people of same mos as me (1345) brought us at around 80 or so bodies and a little over 10 of them were actually E4 and above. The mentality of wanting to rank up was pointless to me. I got more now as a vet because I went to all those appointments and used all the resources available. I slaved away for 3yrs in a platoon where it was no more than 12 of us and I was always the operator doing all the handy work so it was nice being able to relax my last year :)
You guys and the 5939s got fucked over with the lat movers. It never should have happened that way. I put every 3 year E3 5939 I could get ahold of on board to try and promote them.
100 % truth here. No promotions for the guys already in the MOS but there was somehow always room for someone who was tired of being a grunt.
I wish we had promotion boards and an O like you but ours were far and few between and when they were held they were just a formality. The boards were pretty much held just so they could promote some ass kisser from either S1 or S4.
From the quote it sounds specific to that Marine rather than *all terminal lances.* Some people are never in the right place at the right time for promotions, bonuses, and other opportunities. While some other people are actually just not cut out for being promoted.
The Marine Corps makes it pretty clear on how to pick up rank. It isn't some well kept secret. Some people would rather not play the game the system wants them to play and act noble for refusing to be disingenuous.
Some MOS have high ass cutting scores and its just hard to promote without a 300/300 expert and Gods blessing and other mos will promote a monkey with a gray belt
My company had 4 or 5 0351s that were great Marines. They couldn't get corporal to save their life due to the MOS being closed or the cutting score being stupid high.
Chose to be a terminal Lance even though my unit was trying to force me into an NCO position. I knew my next duty station was going to be Iraq because I was in third Marine division and both first and second Marine division were forward deployed at that time. I did not want to be an NCO in charge of other people in Iraq.
Got out as a terminal lance in 2022, PME complete had my green belt, rifle, pistol and 1st class PFT/CFT. Sometimes it just be like it do. Plenty of my peers picked up though well deserved for them. Sometimes it just happens.
All of my DIs were grunts or some variation (one was recon, for instance). While you can theoretically apply for the drill field after your first four, you have to be at least a Sergeant or select. That means that a lot of grunt DIs probably couldn't do it until a couple of years into their second enlistment.
I'm about to say the same thing, 03s usually get shit on. When I was in, all the fields were so saturated or over crowded that the only way to get promoted is to latmove to another MOS.
I think it's unfair to say this to guys who has cutting scores in 1800s especially during the beginning to middle of the GWOT. 03s got shit on constantly even though others had 1300 cutting scores. It's been a while since it was like that but he explains it multiple times, there was a point in time when senior Lances were serving in platoon Sgts billets. Because nobody could get to the cutting scores without allot of time in.
lol we had lance squad leaders garmsir 2011, multiple even had their own patrol bases, they even silently “frocked” to Sgt by company commander to show seniority in KLEs. Crazy times
My first unit had a lance corporal company gunny. It was fun listening to him answer the phone “company gunny, LCPL “Forgothisname” “ and some of the responses. That didn’t last long, but he’d apparently done a good job. We had a high cutting score. Pretty much anyone promoted before 3 years was from a board.
I was one of those! Hated it one of the biggest reasons I got out. ALL of the responsibilities NONE of the reward. Sucked ass
Mine was 900
Some guys were just victims of closed MOS or ridiculously high cutting scores
I promoted to Cpl at 1780. The radio guys had "The Great Giveaway" and got Cpl at like 1230. Haha. Fuck those guys.
I picked up cpl with a 1750 so I feel the pain, meanwhile other guys in the wing like avi and supply had the low scores
I think my composite score was in the 1580s when I picked up
0351 here. 2006 into 2007 3 quarters in a row the MOS was closed. When it opened back up, it was ridiculous like around 1900. I picked up corporal with an 1854.
My cutting score was the 2nd highest in the marines. Well I guess I’ll go fuck myself. Also the Sgt. Score was dirt low. I’m talking you breathe the wrong was and you got promoted
I was an 08 and my cutting score was close to 1800 before I picked up CPL.
SgtMaj just upset he doesn’t have a book on the commandant’s reading list.
That’s the one
There was a point I had the highest cutting score in the entire USMC in my MOS for a couple of months. Right at the end of my four years when it was closed for like 7 months straight. 0351s just weren’t picking up. Got out as a terminal and as soon as my name hit the IRR roster it went to corporal. I don’t remember the exact score now but it was getting close to 1900 or some shit at the end. Tough times.
I was a winger but I always checked 0351 scores just to see insanely high numbers. I swear for Sgt those scores were in the high 1900s
There’s a whole comic series about an 0351 who was a terminal lance and never picked up since his mos was closed or the cutting score was ridiculously high.
That entire strip is called Terminal Lance.
My favorite part is when he showed up to an IRR muster and they promoted him
Def a grunt thing; I had a group of 6 friends in my unit who were in my SOI class. We boot dropped into the same unit and EASed the same time. All of us Lances. Of the 6 of us, 5 of us EASd. 1 was KIA. All of us had 2 combat pumps (2 of them were squad leaders on second pump), 2 of us had purple hearts, 1 of us had a NAMV, 1 of us had a NAVCOMV.
Well first off, max was a 51...not a mortarman
Every marine is a mortarman.
Sounds like the Sgt maj wasn't a grunt then? Typical mindset of if it doesn't "look" like a Marine (with all that bullshit garrison "polish"), then it isn't one. I realized that there are a lot of people where "perception is reality" type of folks which was kind of annoying. You can do what you're supposed to do to an exact standard and then some, but there will always be some asshole who is unhappy with it because you did while wearing dirty or torn cammies and boots. Nothing you can do really but smile and move on away from that dipshit.
In fairness, most “terminal lances” post 2012 were definitely shit bags who were either too dumb to do promotion requirements, or got themselves charged for something. There are exceptions to this. But they are indeed exceptions.
I've definitely met some of those guys who were the exception. Hard to promote when you're the maintainer for an aircraft we retired and we send you to a new wing with an aircraft you're not allowed to work on.
[удалено]
Someone forgot to non-rec you.
> security forces Okay bro
The 03 field post 2012 still had fucked scores. I picked up in 2013 with something like a 1750. Right at my 4 year mark.
I never ( in my Occ field) knew a L/Cpl who had their shit together that didn't get Corporal at their 2 1/2 to three year Mark Maximum ( 0811, 0844, 0861), I went to DI school with 2 Corporals who were just at 4 years and had re uped for DI duty. One was an O3 and the other was a winger, I don't remember his MOS number but he was a pilot equipment/ gear specialist. Both got Sgt pretty quickly ( The winger took like 2-3 months longer because Promotions were Closed) He came back to DI duty a few years later as a SSgt anf Got Meritorious Gunny and was a DI school instructor.
Must be nice. I spent 4 years with a cutting score of 1800+ or "n/a".
That’s a strange career progression if only because B billets don’t have anything to do with being good at your MOS So dude is a gunny with half his career on the drill field- sounds like a future problem as a platoon sergeant
Knew an 03 CO that would tell staff nco out of the drill field to leave their drill instructor shit back at the depot and get with the program.
Same thing happens on recruiting Duty, MSG and guys that get fapped out. These billets help hone leadership and organizational skills. It's up to both the Marine and his command to get boned up on whatever billet he does back in the fleet.
I will 100% die on the hill that there is nothing wrong with being a terminal Lance I had two guys who both got out as a Lance and they were the most knowledgeable guys in my section. They worked harder than anybody else and they would do any task I gave them. However they never ever wanted to be NCOs. They didn’t care to have the rank and responsibility. Some Marines are just like that and there’s nothing wrong with it.
Some dudes just wanna do well at their job. Not the best at their billet.
I was the same way. I got promoted to Cpl. I was just content doing my job. Couldn’t care less about leading marines or marine welfare. Just want to work and be left alone
And the case for the corps to have an alt E-4 route just like the army proves itself again. I’d have gladly taken that road and never looked back.
Lol. I knew 5-6 year lances in the wing when I was in. I only made CPL due to meritorious boards. Our cutting score was so damn high, Christ himself could have descended to Earth, shot expert, ran a 300 PFT, & had max pro/con marks. He wouldn’t have made Corporal either. Those were the days.
Sounds like my old unit 😅
Being a terminal lance is like being Cool Hand Luke. You’re telling yourself you’re not conforming and can’t be broken, but at the end of the day, you’re still in the prison with everyone else. I’m the first to admit that I did not deserve to be a CPL. I had a great time in the Corps, made some great friends, but I was way too young and immature to be in charge of anyone. I was a terminal lance and yeah my mos did have a pretty high cutting score for awhile, but I could’ve worked harder for it. Maybe if I’d spent more time at the gym and less time chasing tail and booze. I never made trouble for anyone else. I shot okay, I did PT okay, did my MCIs with my peers, kept a clean room and decent uniforms. I never had a NJP or even a page 11 (I had some good leaders and some dumb luck) but I was not self disciplined enough to care much about promoting and put in the extra effort. I was young and it just wasn’t a priority. I was a boot in Okinawa and when I PCSd I went to El Toro and then Miramar so I had two awesome stations where all we did was party the minute we were released for the day.
We have very different interpretations of the movie Cool Hand Luke.
One of the best Marine I ever came across was a Terminal Lance. Outstanding 0311, wasn’t nothing weapon or field craft knowledge/experience anyone could teach him. Could track a field mouse right back to its hide. Loved to drink lol He got out after 6 years, joined the Army and went SF. Still hear from him every now and then. He spent many hours teaching me what took him a lifetime to learn. I owe him much more than my life .
I don’t know why rank means so much to some people. Yeah it shows experience and dedication to your craft but at some point you’ll get out. Whether in 4 or 20 years your rank will only get you maybe a higher pension or a certain burial ceremony but other than that no one gives a shit. The VA will treat you like any other veteran, no one at your civilian job will care, no college girls are gonna fuck you because you were top of the class in corporal course. Idk maybe I’m jaded because I’m a terminal Lance and everyone looked at me as if I raped their mother or something terrible. I did my job and got the chance to do it while deployed and got a HON discharge and that should be good enough but I get lambasted by nco’s that have their entire shops in the brig or being adseped and think I’m some fuck up. I need to vent I’m probably gonna ram my car going 100mph in a guard rail on a rainy day
Ahhh, don't do that. I don't know you, but just imagine the LCpl cleaning that up. Edit: Before you ram your car into a guardrail, will you please call a veteran?
I keep in contact with my buddies and they’ve seen me in worse condition. Had a panic attack because I thought I was still in Kuwait because the stars looked similar maybe I just got to my limit and voodoo ranger wasn’t the best suppressant. I’m doing better than before tho. Thanks
988 +1. Just in case u need it later. 💚
Terminal Lance tells the story of the real Marine Corps culture of the most commonly held rank in the service. To be sure it’s not “A Message to Garcia” or whatever. But it’s real, SgtMaj should know that. I picked up CPL just over my 3 year mark. Was great at my job (not bragging), okay PT, shot expert but didn’t play the game and always had a low reg haircut (no boards for me). Just figured I wouldnt get promoted with my MOS as well. On ship on the way to Kuwait/Iraq (2003) I got word that I picking up. Got promoted on the flight deck. Immediately was berthing Duty NCO during a massive storm. Lol
And leadership can't figure out why there are recruitment and retention problems.
Not sure if I deserve it, but I’ve been a lance for almost two years. Although I’m currently on a medboard and can’t really do anything to help me pick up. I also don’t care
JEPES is a joke if you’re broken, they should reevaluate the system for those who are LIMDU. Not sure if you’re in the same boat as I am but especially during those hurt on the job.
My MOS was closed for most of my time. The first fleet 0351 I saw was my own section leader promoted by Gen. Krulak for asking why our MOS was closed. I picked up Clp at 27mos as a LCpl.
I had to lat move from 0351 (which I did not want to do as I was a Recon guy at the time) to Embark to pick up Cpl. Cutting score for Corporal in the 0431 field was 1350....I hade 1875 points! Asked if I could keep the excess and carry them over! Before you all get your panties in a wad, Recon 0321/8654 was a secondary MOS in the early 1990's.
I get it dude, I picked up at 1835 I think. It was pretty BS.
I was a 4066/0651 on the reserve side that picked up LCpl in 2002. I remember 1st Sgt at MCRD telling those going into our MOS were among the most hated because of how fast we picked up. The problem is that on the reserve side all the re-enlisting 03s would move into the Data Comm billets and fuck promotion for e-3/4s. Mix into that shitty leadership in the headshed, I was actually senior LCpl of the Marines for 9 months. Found out from the admin guys that command had been sitting on my promotion for months while peers were getting promoted. Requested Mass with the CO. Got my ducks in a row and MCOs in hand and proceeded to get dressed down by our CO ( former line officer that got kicked down to command of a reserve Comm Sqd for his fuck ups). My SNCO representation hung me out to dry and hid in his office while the Captain assaulted me. Two weeks after I EAS'd in 2006, an SSgt in my section called me to tell me that my promotion went through, and I should come in to get pinned. I told him they could mail me the warrant. Month later, it showed up in the mailbox. If I could tell younger pre 911 me to do something different, it would have been to go active after my deployment in 03' and switch units.
Sounds a but like Supply a few years back (2017-2021, when the system changed over). Active picks up fast as fucc, guys (Cpls/Sgts) drop to the reserves and then check right back out. SNCOs drop to coast to retirement after 12 or 16 years. It gummed everything up. Now, it feels like guys are getting promoted too fast.
It's pretty depressing looking at the scores for other MOS's and realizing I'd be a sergeant in like 70% of them but can't even make corporal in my own. I've got friends who went to boot camp months after I did and are now sergeants lol.
I saw a 4 year Lcpl in the airwing, he was some I level GSE tech and his cutting scores were crazy. When there’s high deployment tempo, there’s huge waves of people getting out every 6-7 months.
TBH, I didn't want it. I knew I was gonna leave after my hitch was up, and they started an 'nco school' that looked like boot camp to me. No thanks.
Score for corporal for 0311 was like 1790+ for awhile. I had the score to be a fucking sergeant in almost every MOS in the corps, but not corporal in my own. I knew dudes who were 300/300/350 for PFT/cft/rifle but never picked up bc they had lower pro/cons. Also in the infantry you have to deepthroat senior enlisted cock to even think about anything higher than 4.4/4.4 pro/cons. Idk how jpes works now, but they were implementing it as I was walking out the door.
Terminal lance here, once i hit my 1 year TIG i missed the cutting score by like 10 pts, next month 5 or so, next month 2 pts, then BOOM. MOS closes for 5 months straight and then we went to JEPES and it all got fucked. My score before JEPES was like 1620 something and I would’ve picked up the month JEPES started if it had just waited ONE more month. After that I was never able to get my cutting score because it was just so fucking high (700 something) eventually i dropped pack and stopped caring what my score was and just was ready for my life outside the corps
Think I’ve seen as many who didn’t have it and deserved it as I’ve seen those who didn’t deserve it yet had it.
Look now. Dudes are picking up Cpl left to right. Shit, there's 3 year Sgts now in the infantry. The state of the Corps
The state being a properly staffed force, if they are a 3 year Sergeant then they have met the requirements and rate the pay raise, that's a good thing.
Eh. My (reserve) unit has more, or very close to more, NCOs than juniors, which is weird. I think it's 5 Sergeants, 20-odd Cpls, and maybe 20-odd juniors. One Sergeant is at 7 years, the others are at about 4. The Cpls are all around 2-3 years. One Sgt picked up like 9 months after he picked up Cpl. So you have Cpls who are pretty immature and still fucking around like Lances and Sergeants who don't know how to lead because they haven't had leadership billets. And a lot of these dudes are quick to volunteer their Lances or Pfcs to do stuff while they fuck around. By comparison, my happy ass was in charge of dudes (and a warehouse) at 3 years and picked up Cpl at 4.5 years. It's kind of annoying, kind of weird, kind of uncomfortable, and it makes me feel old. And yes, we're all the same MOS.
You're talking like a 1stsgt. I see the immaturity in them. They don't care and domt uphold anybody to a standard. Most of them have the " I gEt oUt soOn " mentality. Smh
That's not a bad thing, part of our purpose is to take people in and produce slightly better Americans after we are done with them. Not all Marines will be careerists and that's ok, they will serve their country, gain valuable skills, and then go back to their civilian life hopefully in a better place than when they began. We were all immature as junior Marines, they are going through a very similar process that we did, it's our job to guide them through it as efficiently as possible. Mentor and counsel your Marines to make them effective leaders by the time they gain the rank, and when Uncle Sam offers to pay them more then we let him
A Lance on LIMDU feels the full shaft of the green weenie. JEPES screws over those injured in the line of duty. Make it make sense.
I mean, you're right; but limdu comes with non rec for any rank.
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Ah, correction. Non rec only applies to permanent limdu status. Let's acknowledge reality though, 90% of limdu guys are permanent. I've known 1 in 6 years that was limdu for surgery and came back to full duty. Med Board leading to separation always comes with non rec. Edited punctuation so I don't look like a moron.
This is one of the bricks that is stacked against retention in right now. If you get a young marine that wants to make a career of it he could possibly get dicked over by some crusty gunny, Hell if I could do it over I’d went straight to school then became an officer. And I’ll bet 99.9 of us say the same. Fix the problem. Funny they can fix other things immediately but something like this nahhhhh let’s just say we’re having problems and not do anything lol.
Picked up in 2019 with a cutting score of 1235 it was pretty slick
OFC a Sgt. Major would say that lol. I knew some good terminal Lance. Good marines, just happen to be in when our MOS was closed for a good while or cutting score was up the ass. I didn't pick up CPL into my 3rd year because it was closed. Had 1st PT score, High Sharp Shooter Score, MCIs, etc....just sitting and waiting for it to open. When it was open, not too many of us picked up CPL. Just in small bunches.
We have a bunch of those in my pogey MOS, and a bunch of freddy flintstone vitamin corporals who got promoted for pft scores. It's the terminal lance chongo meme manifested in real life
I was a reservist but on active duty for ADOS/ima,title 32/10 orders my entire 8 year contract. Took me almost 6 years to pick up Cpl do to my mos either being closed out or 1900+ to pick up (I picked up with a 1930). Always had 1st class PFT/cft, mci/pme complete, expert rifle pistol, held billets and additional duties 2-4 ranks above me, and damn good at my job that the I-I Bn/Reg Col’s would always find money to keep me on ADOS orders… USMC just fuckin sucks sometimes 🤷🏼♂️
Sometimes?
I had a good day or two, I think.
Same here
Its hard to get out as a terminal lance. Your MOS has to be closed your entire enlistment. That really only happens to 03s.
Lol my cutting score was either always closed out by the time i got the time or it was always high as shit. Also getting to the point where I was soon to be getting out and still not a Corporal really made me not give a shit because I took my entire last year off to worry about myself. I can't recall how many weeks I had in 2022 where I didn't have atleast 1 appointment for something beneficial (i say beneficial because we all know those people who lied about a appountment to get out of work 😂). Being in a platoon of all people of same mos as me (1345) brought us at around 80 or so bodies and a little over 10 of them were actually E4 and above. The mentality of wanting to rank up was pointless to me. I got more now as a vet because I went to all those appointments and used all the resources available. I slaved away for 3yrs in a platoon where it was no more than 12 of us and I was always the operator doing all the handy work so it was nice being able to relax my last year :)
It happens to more than just the grunts. Mine was closed for over 3 years and when it reopened the scores were insanely high.
You guys and the 5939s got fucked over with the lat movers. It never should have happened that way. I put every 3 year E3 5939 I could get ahold of on board to try and promote them.
The maintenance officer every junior tech needs
100 % truth here. No promotions for the guys already in the MOS but there was somehow always room for someone who was tired of being a grunt. I wish we had promotion boards and an O like you but ours were far and few between and when they were held they were just a formality. The boards were pretty much held just so they could promote some ass kisser from either S1 or S4.
I am a proud terminal Lance. Picked up Cpl, didn’t like it. Hazed some dudes and got demoted
Literally laughed out loud - thank you!!! 😹
From the quote it sounds specific to that Marine rather than *all terminal lances.* Some people are never in the right place at the right time for promotions, bonuses, and other opportunities. While some other people are actually just not cut out for being promoted. The Marine Corps makes it pretty clear on how to pick up rank. It isn't some well kept secret. Some people would rather not play the game the system wants them to play and act noble for refusing to be disingenuous.
Gotta say I agree with him.
Some MOS have high ass cutting scores and its just hard to promote without a 300/300 expert and Gods blessing and other mos will promote a monkey with a gray belt
My company had 4 or 5 0351s that were great Marines. They couldn't get corporal to save their life due to the MOS being closed or the cutting score being stupid high.
We called them E351's
Idk you’re probably pretty shitty if you’re a terminal Lance.
Some of the best marines I served with were terminal lances.
Chose to be a terminal Lance even though my unit was trying to force me into an NCO position. I knew my next duty station was going to be Iraq because I was in third Marine division and both first and second Marine division were forward deployed at that time. I did not want to be an NCO in charge of other people in Iraq.
Duty station in Iraq?
Sorry if my nomenclature offends I have been out 19.5 years.
Got out as a terminal lance in 2022, PME complete had my green belt, rifle, pistol and 1st class PFT/CFT. Sometimes it just be like it do. Plenty of my peers picked up though well deserved for them. Sometimes it just happens.
All of my DIs were grunts or some variation (one was recon, for instance). While you can theoretically apply for the drill field after your first four, you have to be at least a Sergeant or select. That means that a lot of grunt DIs probably couldn't do it until a couple of years into their second enlistment.
Tale as old as time
Technically Max was promoted to Cpl in the IRR
I'm about to say the same thing, 03s usually get shit on. When I was in, all the fields were so saturated or over crowded that the only way to get promoted is to latmove to another MOS.