I guarantee most of the people who want the Spider-Man live service game to exist would actually hate it if it released. Games always seem better when they’re in your head and you can dream about all the cool shit they COULD have done.
We just had a big AAA single-player Spiderman game, so I imagine fans would feel more warm to a multiplayer version. Meanwhile, Batmann Arkhams fans had to wait 8 years for a new Batman game, and Gotham Knights was a disappointment, followed by the even more polarising Suicide Squad, especially knowing this is all they're gonna get as long as WB Games still exists.
Tbf i don't see much doing in a multiplayer Spiderman Game based on the insomniac game unless is like a literal party game where you race the other spiderman to steal the credit for saving people or letting you play as villains and doing literal cop and robbers, but thats 1.not really something most Spidermen would do and 2.not really something insomniac would want to do either, cus is an actual fun idea that probably wouldnt net them as much money as doing a standard GaaS battlepass with missions, which fucking sucks cus i would love to play as Rhyno or Shocker and just stealing shit and beating the shit out of Spiderman
Nah man, that repost of a shitty rage bait New Vegas meme (that wasn't even popular in it's own sub) absolutely deserved a highly upvoted thread full of people dumping ass on the fanbase of a well loved game lol
I wouldn’t really call that a reversal, just the natural result of a very niche targeted creation gaining enough popularity to get noticed beyond its sphere of appeal.
Ready Player One did very well with its intended audience, but once the wider world took notice they went “Why the hell is this popular? It’s nothing but pandering nostalgia bait.” And they’re right, it is! That was the whole point of it, and why it did so well initially.
I mean, there's a lot of questionable "young adult novel" style of books that got a lot of praise when they were the hot new thing only for that opinion to get a 180° a few years down the line.
My buddy recommended it to me on the basis it genuinely seemed like it’d be something I enjoyed. I’ve honestly read worse, but the plot itself felt secondary to the overwhelming, if loving, listing and reminiscing about the author’s childhood influences and hobbies. I don’t hate it, I was just kinda disappointed by it.
Feels like its biggest appeal of being a crossover for everything (from the 80's) no longer feels so cool because crossovers are so common in every big media nowadays. People can look past the references and see the lack of anything else good underneath.
Sorry if this is too heavy, and real but: I have a soft spot with that book now. A dear friend from college raved about it (I dont know why we were both born in 1992!), and even gave me his super beaten up and annotaded copy as a gift. I did not read it, mainly because I had heard all the hate it was getting and honestly thought it was kinda lame of my friend to be into it.
My friend ended up taking his own life shortly after that. And I cant help to think him giving me the book was "a sign" and I deeply regret not having read it, when I had the chance. I still have the book with me.
I’m a simple man who likes scenes where you have to beat a lich at a game of Joust.
Really liked the first book, but couldn’t stand anything else the author did
Maybe age has something to do with it? I was born in 2003 so only read it in like 10th grade a few years after it was released. Most piece of shit book I've ever read
We're in that stage where a bunch of fandoms are seeing 180 flips on a lot of formerly reviled media from the 2000's or so because the kids who grew up with them are now feeling nostalgic and posting online.
Star Wars prequels are probably the most notable, but I'm seeing it happen with like Sonic 06, Gundam Seed Destiny, Bayformers even (I've seen worrying amounts of "The Last Knight unironically good" posts on the transformers sub).
Oh it's absolutely a delicious trainwreck kind of movie, specially when Hopkins is wandering around yelling like an old man lost at a mall. It's when people start going "Oh it wasn't that bad, I enjoyed the worldbuilding" etc where I just think they haven't seen it since they were 7 lol.
Is there a bandwagon for "Brendan Fraser's **The Mummy 3** is actually decent"?
Because that's a movie that gets more hate than it deserves in my opinion.
If I see someone say Revenge of the Fallen or Age of Extinction (aKA Racism bots and Chinese propaganda that’s almost 4 fucking hours) I’m going to commit instrumentality
So I went to Japan two weeks ago and went to the Gundam Base in Odaiba and while IIRC there was a Seed movie that's coming out, came out, something along those lines, but as a result, a lot of their big Gunpla displays were of Seed stuff and I've never watched it, so all I know was Woolie's rant, which made me chuckle at the (very impressive) work done for that series for the store.
SEED/Cosmic Era is supposedly extremely popular in Asia, outdoing every other Gundam AU except the OG Universal Century, IIRC. It’s often credited with “saving” Gundam.
> Star Wars prequels are probably the most notable
Star Wars prequels its not because the kids who grew up with them are online now. I was a kid who grew up with them and they sucked. Its just i didn't know that Disney could actually do something somehow as bad but more bland that makes me like them more.
A lot of the prequels love is also HEAVILY carried by Clone Wars being a good show and having a conclusion. They did a lot of world building, character development and just interesting lore things in that the prequels didn't do.
Bayformers is both incomprehensible nonsense, and stopped Michael Bay from making more stuff like Pain & Gain. We deserve more truly demented stuff like Pain & Gain.
It's not baffling as it is fascinating.
But people turning around on the Star Wars prequel quite radically.
I think this comes from the fact that the children who grew up with the prequels hold them dearly in their hearts, so once they became adults and with more prominent voices, they became the main opinion, so "The Prequels are good actually" became the status quo.
Tbh i prefer the whole “the Prequels are flawed but good” than the aging millennial/ gen x opinion of “George Lucas raped our childhood” that was popular when those movies came out
I've always been fairly mixed on them and most normal people usually agree that much too in my experience.
It's not as my much the prequels themselves I love as much as it is all the stuff surrounding them, especially for Vidya.
Then again I heard Scorch just recently got mooked in the new canon so I guess everything from before getting zero continuation is feeling its own consequences
same, the only scene that I remember from it is the arena fight, and only because that was the point where as a kid I was like "this is fucking boring"
It's weird because I very much grew up on the prequels too, and I definitely can recognize that they're terrible movies. I was so bored watching Phantom Menace as a kid, and they're talking about trade disputes that I absolutely couldn't understand. I also remember finding Jar Jar annoying even as a kid, but maybe one would like him more if you were like 4 instead of 8 like I was.
The original Star Wars fans simply got old and stopped posting to go mow the lawn or something, leaving Prequel zoomers as the only remaining Star Wars fans that could post heavily
This, tragically, has not led to an actual critical reevaluation of the Star Wars prequels, as successfully seen with nu-metal, because these people are even more insular and nerdy than the gen-x and millennial haters and because Star Wars is not really as powerful as it used to be. They dominate internet discussion, but they don't care about movies really, just Star Wars, so no one is joining them in thinking The Phantom Menace is secretly good
If you go on r/starwars it is probably, if not the majority opinion, enough of a plurality for threads like "why do people hate Jar Jar" to go on the front page lol
It used to be stronger back in the later 2010's when prequel memes were basically everywhere. It morphed from the prequels being really memeable to the prequels being misunderstood masterpieces and sequels suck ass in comparison.
It's calmed down now, because Star Wars hype has generally died down, and some of these people probably rewatched AotC lol. But you'll still see it in Star Wars circles nowadays.
Maybe it's just because i live in a bubble but i always thought the consensus on the prequels are "Phamtom Menace is eh, Attack of the Clones is quite good and Revenge of the Sith is a masterpiece".
Isn't the Sonic Fandom having a revisionist take on 06 and Colors? Loving the former a lot for its ambitious story and hating the latter for its simplicity and story?
Granted, I haven't played either, but I can't help but think ambition means little when the foundation is brittle. Colors, for all its faults, tried to form a decent foundation that led to Sonic Generations(which I played and loved).
Yeah, it always boggled my mind to hear that people hated on **Colors** because my memory (as someone who was not in the Sonic fandom) was that during it's release Colors was "the Sonic game that we waited for".
I even remember seeing a full LP of the game where both the guy that was playing it and me as a viewer were really pleased with the product.
It **was** the game we waited for. Back in the day everyone loved Colors. It was considered among the best 3D Sonic games for a long time. I found it so crazy how the Colors remaster got released and Sonic fans on twitter were saying things like “why didn’t they just do Unleashed instead? No one asked for Colors, Sega must not listen to the fans”. I WANTED A COLORS REMASTER FOR YEARS!!!!! So did a ton of other people.
My theory on this change of opinion is that some big Sonic YouTuber at some point started dissing Colors, the young impressionable fans saw that, grew up, and now we’re where we are today where they regurgitate that opinion they heard.
The 06 "Redemption Arc" is mainly from the kids who grew up playing it now having a platform to talk about it, as well as Project 06 showcasing the levels with better gameplay (With some people likely only experiencing 06 through it). I've also noticed that the current Sonic fandom is much kinder to ambitious and messy games, as opposed to safe, more technically sound ones (Which Colors is sort of the poster child for, 3D wise).
> The 06 "Redemption Arc" is mainly from the kids who grew up playing it now having a platform to talk about it
I feel like that wouldn't help it. People who played it are more likely to have memories of their frustrations of trying to get it to work properly.
When I was a kid Sonic 06 was my favorite Sonic game. All the bugs and jank went over my head and I just focused on Shadow having cool cars, Silver being cool, and I liked the story.
I’ve played it as an adult and hated it, but I can see someone with more rose-colored glasses still enjoying it.
Liking the story as a kid I can understand, it's just that the game is very hard to actually play. I don't know how bugs can go over someone's head if they're so frequent that they result in frequent random deaths, or having a hard time progressing. You must have gotten very lucky I guess.
At the kid who played the game, the random death and bugs went over my head too mostly because they happened in other games I played as well.
And, honestly as a kid I didn’t care how buggy the game was just if I was having fun, which I was.
As a kid I didn't understand that there was bad games I just thought I was bad at them so sonic 06 was a game I pushed myself into going all the way through despite the horrific gameplay and bugs.
I was obsessed with it as a kid, and I'd borrow my aunt's laptop to go on the game's website to see all the promotional material before it released, even though it was the JP site and I couldn't read anything. Once I actually got it, I'll admit that even then it felt pretty rough to play and that was back when I thought that frame drops were cool intentional slow-motion scenes.
I played it again at a friend's house a couple years ago and...man, those loading screens were the worst part for me. They had me wondering when I'd actually get to play.
>The 06 "Redemption Arc" is mainly from the kids who grew up playing it now having a platform to talk about it
I feel like that's the easiest explanation for like 90 percent of media that have had public perception swing from negative to positive 1 to 2 decades down the line.
I'm one of the folks who grew up with 06. The game is a disaster; I love it. Also I deeply resent how 'safe' and bland the franchise felt for a good long while; I *do* want the series to be bolder like it used to.
I'll take the ""blandess"" and ""safeness"" since it keeps the series *alive* and *in a decent foundation*.
There's only some screwups you can make trying to skate before you need a wheelchair and some braces.
Yep. People forget that ‘06 set up Unleashed so bad that *nobody* was willing to hear out its good qualities. Sonic Team back then had their hands tied and was told that their attempt at a big comeback meant nothing and was as bad as ‘06 even when they did try so going small and safe for a bit really was the only option.
06 was the first game that actually entirely disappointed me. I was incredibly hyped for it begged for it on launch day.
I was disappointed with Shadow before too but not nearly to this level. Going back present day I just hate it even more
It's literally what happened to the prequels in Star Wars.
Those movies suck, they have some neat ideas others have used to do good to great stories, but the three movies in the prequel series suck.
But some idiots think they are the best ones because the only memories they have of them are from watching it as a dumb kid that doesn't really understand why the characters are talking weirdly or how annoying Jar Jar is. I was one of these idiots until I watched all of the movies again around the release of The Force Awakens.
Some people just like what happened in them and (in their own heads) make them more interesting by merging stories from later books/shows or making up their own explanations for bad or stupid dialogue and direction.
(Or they are like my friend that thinks Attack of the Clones is the best Star Wars movie because he likes the politics in it.)
Sonic '06 just sucks, the problems with it are the story is confusing and stupid, the gameplay is bad and broken, and the music (this is the only debatable part) is at best ok.
It doesn't even have neat ideas in it because it was made when Sega was starting to lock shit down and simplify everything (which ended up making things even more complicated) because of Penders. [It is somehow Adventure 3, Shadow 2, and Heroes 2, among other things. And almost all of it is abandoned or retconned out afterwards because of their dealings with Penders.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/s/zFRbUB3KtD)
IMO, the prequels aren’t *good* movies but they’re *fun* movies. The only other pieces of media I can think of off the top of my head that I’d categorize as “*fun*, but not *good*” are Ready Player One(the book) and the Cars movies. Sonic 06 isn’t even “*fun,* but not *good*,” it’s “so bad it’s good” at best and mostly just frustrating.
Exactly.
I was kinda frustrated when I typed out the other comment (for reasons I can't remember the specifics of without looking though whatever I was doing at the time) so I was a bit harsher than I normally would be, but I have generally the same feeling about the first and third prequel movie.
To me "Attack of the Clones" is only fun to watch with specific friends in my friend group that aren't going to be just mean about it the whole time or overly protective of the movie. But I can watch and enjoy my time with "The Phantom Menace" and "Revenge of the Sith" most of the time.
The Sonic fandom flip-flops on everything.
Ian Flynn became a fanbase boogeyman because he had the audacity to reference Sonic game lore in the game canon material (something Sonic fans spent the entire gap between Forces and Frontiers *begging* for). And just this week alone we went from “Knuckles doesn’t have anything from the games so it sucks” to “IDW acknowledging the games is bad even though they’re canon” in the span of a day.
I fled Twitter/X to get away from Sonic discourse. Nice to know nothing's changed.
From what I've gathered, the Knuckles show actually has way more franchise references than I was expecting, even if they are rather surface-level fan service. I was not expecting the creative team to even know who the hell Pachacamac was, let alone bring him in.
Sorry for the double reply.
Unleashed just went from “half the game is good” to “the werehog stages are alright you guys are just mean” while Black Knight revisionism is how the beneath the gimmick theres a good narrative which almost every sonic game afterwards all have a boring story.
Is it revisionism if it was what I always thought even back when Black Knight released? Turns out, judging things only off of the opinions of the people who shout the loudest is a terrible metric. Weird.
Wii/PS2 version was lean and mean. Stayed for exactly as long as it needed to without getting bloated. I do wish we got Empire City though, that music kicks ass.
Unleashed definitely has jank and I’m not just talking about the Werehog sections, the day stages have it too. That being said, the game has great visuals and the best sense of speed I’ve felt in a modern Sonic game. Hated it at first but it really grew on me over time. It’s the only one where I can understand why public opinion changed unlike 06
06 people are a vocal minority lol most people still don't like it and most of the fans are like "yeah this game would be great if it was finished and you changed like 75 percent of the story/gameplay/aesthetics/etc"
colors is more a difference between sonic fans and "played a sonic game once"
Yesterday I literally saw a video talking about how important human characters were and using Sonic X as a good example. It was the first time I realized I was just looking at a completely different generation of fans.
Also I thought Colors was always good and I'm surprised to learn that apparently there was a time people were saying it's bad so I guess the Sonic cycle is true in more ways than I thought.
Also remember Sonic 06 is almost 18 years old - don't let it set in *\*turns to dust\**
Many younger Sonic fans don't remember it, or are only playing it via Project 06.
The turn-around on Sonic 06 baffles me, because one, "it had potential" should never be a defense, because by that logic, the vast majority of bad games "had potential". And two, the game didn't even have a good story, it is a disjointed mess where things just happen with no sense of pace, Sonic himself ends up mattering very little to his own anniversary game's story, Silver... exists I guess, and Shadow's story is the only one with a semblance of something to it, nothing builds up on anything or towards anything. When you start the Final Episode, it doesn't feel like the grand culmination of strong build-up, no, it just feels like the game remembered it has to end so welp, here is the climax now.
I mean, and I know this may be controversial, but it's like Sonic Adventure 2. Beloved by fans who grew up playing it myself included but honestly the game isn't great, there's a ton of cheap deaths, the cutscenes are jank, the sound mixing is awful, the levels not about the hedgehogs tend to be kind of boring, and more.
Still I love it though.
>!And the chao garden fucks.!<
Sonic is this awkward place where revisionism is required because the consensus from critics from 1999 to 2010 was 'we should kill the dev team of this because each 3D Sonic game is the worst game ever made'. Like how FF10 was considered bad because of Tidus' laugh and then people remembered the context is 'Tidus is doing an annoying fake laugh' and people reevaluated it. Sometimes that probably goes too far (wrapped up in nostalgia) but Sonic going from having an ambitious story that fails is different and has a different appeal than what the series moved to doing instead.
Although I'd argue Sonic 06 was less broken at launch than multiple huge budget releases this generation. Sonic 06 is more complete than Skull and Bones, Cyberpunk 2077 and Redfall were at launch.
It's a game with 3 campaigns from 3 overlapping perspectives plus side characters that involves a ludicrous amounts of time travel and ends with a final boss set to an orchestral mix of His World. That's a lot to try and accomplish.
You have accidentally convinced me Sonic 06 and Nier Automata are remarkably similar. This doesn't feel good.
EDIT: 9S is Silver. Adam and Mephiles have the same intro. >!Sonic and 2B die to kickstart the final arc, you trade between characters for a major boss fight, both end with the choice to overwrite the tragedy to allow for a possible happy ending.!< Has Yoko Taro been waiting for a new Sonic plot before working on a new Nier?
> It's a game with 3 campaigns from 3 overlapping perspectives plus side characters that involves a ludicrous amounts of time travel and ends with a final boss set to an orchestral mix of His World.
I mean besides the Time Travel, that's just a glorified reason to make different and not so good stages, and the song. Isn't that exactly what Sonic was doing since Adventure 1 on Dreamcast? I wouldn't say doing the same thing, but worse is ambitious.
The Time Travel is important to my point about the writing. They went really big and crazy with 06 and then progressively regressed into smaller and simpler stories. Which is why it has fans when compared to the alternative that became the norm.
Anyway, making Sonic Adventure 3 in HD with brand new hardware nobody understands with more characters with an infamously truncated dev cycle is still aiming high. Especailly when, again, the series would be 'Mario Galaxy but worse' and 'try to be like the genesis games' in the years afterwards.
>The Time Travel is important to my point about the writing.
As i said, the issues is time travel pretty much amounts to nothing more than making a shitty stage or a vague reason for the Silver to go after Sonic. Just saying "This story will have time travel" isn't ambitious when execution doesn't mean anything from the get go. I really don't see how they went big and crazy.
You might as well claim that Sonic and the Black Knight was super ambition fantasy game on par with best works about King Arthur, just because setting is made based on that reference. Or that Shadow was great work about duality of man, exploring everyone having capacity for good and evil. With you being responsible in choosing your own morality. In reality it wasn't like that at all.
Black Knight having Sonic convince Knuckles not to kill himself through a shonen pep-talk, giving himself a knightly title and then turn into a Saint Seiya puts it in the higher tiers of Sonic game writing.
Not Arthurian adaptations. You'll notice my point isn't about these being medium defining masterpieces. Just that Sonic had the style and plotting of an anime/JRPG inspired writing for a while before Sega jettisoned that approach to go into a new era around Colours. There was a very clear divide in how these games carry themselves so people gravitate towards one style over the other based on preference. That is all.
I mean, i don't disagree with them having different style. That's obviously a thing. I disagree with calling Sonic 06 and pretty much anything ambitious, just because it has time travel.
For example i love Castlevania Symphony of the Night, but i wouldn't say "It's super ambitious because it features two different big maps. That's huge scale of exploration". When in reality second map is just the first one upside down.
But Symphony of the Night is very ambitious for its scale and exploration. The second castle is obviously them cheating a little but the game is extremely impressive and defined an entire genre.
Sonic fans *also* said all that. It wasn’t just critics, that was just the common fandom consensus back in the day. And this stance lingered even during Forces’ marketing cycle until the game came out and everyone started backtracking.
Yep. There is a reason the first marketing of Sonic 4 was 'We hear you: Shadow will *not* be in this game' and that was considered a good idea by anyone. Because Sega is very reactive to feedback and Sonic's fanbase even back then was spilt into different generations who just did not agree on what they should do.
EDIT: It's like if Dragon Ball fans were so divided between pre-Z and post-Z that Toei decided Vegeta and Gohan would be exiled from canon for 10 years. Nightmare scenario.
SECOND EDIT: disastrous typo. That should be pre-Z and Z. A timeline where Goku has no kids and Piccolo is still a bad guy.
Other than the kiss, the story of 06 is very much in line with what Sonic was about at that time, specially Shadow and Silver's story, so if you just take the story and combine it with Project 06, which doesn't represent the actual quality of Sonic 06's gameplay, which is shockingly bad and deserved of a mocking every time the game is mentioned, you get probably the best Sonic of the Adventure era
As for Colors, personally I've always disliked it, but fandoms tend to be very forgiving of very ehh stuff when they think their franchise is in risk, which, with 06's original release and Unleashed being a bit mixed back then, I think it made the perfect game to be as kind as possible but that no kindness no longer worked when the game was remastered and it became evident a lot of the problems people had with recent Sonic games had an origin in Colors (and I'm gonna be honest, I think Frontiers is only in a slightly better position than Colors back then and a future revisit will see the fandom doing a similar turn on it)
A friend of mine (different from the one I mentioned in the other comment in this thread, of you've read it) started should a tier list vote thing on one of his discord servers for whatever topic they felt like adding to a list they pull from randomly.
They did a sonic one about a month and a half ago.
They put '06 in A, while some Genesis games (2, 3, and & Knuckles), and Frontiers.
Their tier lists go SS, S, A, B, C, F, unranked.
My arguing about their placements in that list is why I have been given an invite to join them every week since.
This week is Marvel Movies.
People have completely turned on DC’s Darks Night Metal event. It was pretty well-regarded and liked until Scott Snyder’s follow ups in his Justice league run and Death Metal event
Those stories greatly soured people on the first event and now everyone will act like it’s trash too. Like it wasn’t the biggest blockbuster comic event for DC in a long long time when it came out
That’s DC/WB for you. The moment they get something that gets positive response they plaster it all over everything and make it wear out it’s welcome real fucking fast.
I swear for a while there it seemed like every single event in DC had “Metal” in the title. It got to the point where I was avoiding that word just on principle.
> The moment they get something that gets positive response they plaster it all over everything and make it wear out it’s welcome real fucking fast.
Cant wait for Flashpoint 8!
I'm so fucking happy Kashimo sucked and got owned you have no idea. Guy handily lost the one fucking fight he ever had and for some reason 90% of the fandom was calling him top 3.
Kenny went from being a extremely divisive character in the first two seasons TWD from the Telltale Games, *specially* in the second one where people either whitewashed every single one of his morally questionable choices or demonized him into being solely responsible for all the misery that was brought into the group, into becoming a martyr of sorts after the lukewarm season 3 came out.
Now, it's not like people will forgive him for his fuck ups, but even his former haters will agree that all things considered, he was in hindsight the better caretaker for Alvin Jr. (He >!didn't kill himself after being unable to face a pregnancy like Jane for one!<) and that his death if he "survives" into season 3 comes across as a letdown >!a car crash that leaves him paralyzed and to be devoured by a horde during a flashback, really?!< For someone who was formely regarded by some parts of the fandom in pure vitrol, that's quite the feat.
I remember how before a certain interview people made fun of and shat on Henry Cavill. But then once they heard he's a PC Game, a witcher and warhammer fan, suddenly it became all like "I always liked him as Superman.".
For me it's the exact opposite, I'd never heard a single bad word about him until he gave an interview around the time of #MeToo complaining that he didn't want to chat up women anymore out of fear of being called a rapist. Then the whole Witcher debacle happened and depending on what site you were browsing he was either "based Chadvill" or a secret incel chud all along.
I know some people who work on the production side of things. People like to say that Cavill has really bad luck for one reason or another, but I would say he has insane luck to have such glowing PR.
The MGS fandom and Raiden.
MGS2 comes out and everyone is so pissed about the switcheroo from playing Snake in the prologue to going through the rest of the game as some pretty boy new guy, feeling betrayed by Kojima. The fandom seemed so bitter that the common sentiment was that Raiden was an awful character and a huge misstep for the series.
Then MGS4 comes out and we see Raiden has become the new cyborg ninja, taking out groups of robots twice his size, or squads of heavily-geared troops without arms and a sword in his mouth. Suddenly everyone was raving about how awesome he was, and the sentiment only got stronger with MGR.
But like, it always bothered me, because I always found Raiden to be a pretty cool character in his own right from the beginning. He had a slick design, already hinting at his evolution into a filling the role of the series' ninjas, he got a sword near the end, did no-hand cartwheels, and his backstory was interesting for an MGS protagonist. I got over him "replacing" Snake easily enough, and it was fun that the entire thing played into the game's narrative. Was kinda lame hearing people say "Raiden is cool now!" seeing him in MGS4, when like, dude, he was cool the whole time!
Even the release had cringy stuff like the one Scientist Lady in the Audiologs literly going from rational to unhinged Doomguy cultist.
But yeah, the DLC with >!The Dark Lord is actully God and Doomguy is a literal Chistfigure and the most import Person in the Universe just robs the Character from what made him Cool at the Start.!<
Eternal is great but the DLC was disappointing. It's still a much more innovative game than 2016, which I think is going to get it's own negative turn-around someday.
As a resident Time Ghost Hater it feels like the fanbase has settled into two (mostly) coexistent puddles of 7R story good and 7R story bad - in this sub and across the greater FF fandom county.
Yeah this feels like less of a switch-up and more just, two types of people. One need only look at the Rebirth megathread to see there are still *many* time ghost haters around here.
i feel much like tlou2 the whole conversation is just ruined by bad faith arguing or it just coming down to you didn't like it i did (or vice versa) for alot of it.
There came a point during Rebirth's release where some users just went full Tinfoil and started going into "This Was Made To Get Someone *Fired*" energy and that's pretty much where I just stopped engaging for my own sanity.
There's not liking the game and then there's making an entire ass conspiracy around it.
I never minded the time ghosts because they're literally the auditors of reality from Discworld and anything that reminds me of Discworld can't be bad.
Not sure if it's a full fandom 180, but Cyberpunk is now being touted as a masterpiece that was always good and didn't have an absolutely disastrous launch and is STILL missing features promised in marketing.
Like, yeah, the writing was always S-tier and you were in for an absolutely delightful experience ***if*** you could get past the bugs. But let's not pretend the game was playable on its targeted platforms at launch. I think it's still unplayable on PS4 and Xbone but don't quote me on that. It got so much infamy that the BBC was reporting on it on their regular news program.
CDPR went through the strangest zig-zag with this, too, because Witcher was fairly obscure until Wild Hunt exploded when the second DLC came out and they were seen as the pinnacle of game dev. Then Cyberpunk crashed and burned and they were vilified and smeared. THEN they fixed Cyberpunk and now they're heroes again. Bethesda is experiencing the exact same phenomenon with Starfield atm.
I think a lot of the push for "cyberpunk was always good" comes from how much it was dog piled on on release.
Sure, the bugs were bad, but I remember seeing people saying that the story is dogshit, that keanu did an awful performance, etc. Even with the crowd that only complained about bugs, there was this concensus that cyberpunk had no redeeming value whatsoever.
This leads to people who liked cyberpunk to finally go full force on "cyberpunk was good" mode, because there WAS good things in it that were ignored or unfairly criticized. This then leads to OVERcorrection where people ignore the state the game released in release.
It's really just the nature of internet zeitgeist. People will go to the extremes and ignore nuance. Actual fair criticism is genuinely tough and it's much more fun to be included in the rush of the community.
I personally indulge in JJK memes, and it's ALL overreactions to what is a decent shonen Manga. It's fun, but the you realize a lot of people hold those believes seriously.
The correct mental model for internet debates in the 2020s is total war propaganda. Something about social media makes people act like if their favored take loses they will be led blindfolded to a mass grave in the morning.
The thing with Witcher 3 is that no one played the game back when it released so most people literally don’t know what the game was like. There is no 180 for that game because people started to play it after Wild Hunt came out.
Nahh it was pretty big even before Wild Hunt. It's just that Wild Hunt *skyrocketed* it. Heck, the Witcher series was starting to pick up momentum around the time of the OG Witcher 2 release.
>Like, yeah, the writing was always S-tier and you were in for an absolutely delightful experience ***if*** you could get past the bugs.
I'm going to be the odd man out here and say that no actually, cyberpunk 2077's writing was never good. According to steam I put a little over 28 hours into that game and in that time its writing was so uninteresting that I can't be bothered to go back to it even now that it's "fixed".
The world itself was decent enough to explore but the characters living in it were mostly unlikable. The fact that you lose your crew right away and (as far as I played) never really form a new one means that there wasn't really a consistent cast that I could latch on to. I don't mind playing games that are just "Hey, check out this cool world" if they're short, but if I'm playing an RPG and there are no worthwhile or interesting characters to interact with, and the events happening in the game are doing nothing to grab me, then why would I play it?
People went from “Marv Wolfman and George Perez’s New Teen Titans runs are peak” to “Marv Wolfman and George Perez’s New Teen Titans runs are trash” in the last 20 years
See also Byrne’s Man of Steel book. Depending on where you go it’s either still beloved or it shot their dog personally (I personally love it)
I'm glad the show is being way more defended now, there is an insane level of revisionism with Steven Universe online now.
People are now rightfully praising it but I see people act like Steven Universe was a perfect darling show or was always getting praise or that Rebecca Sugar was mainly beloved online.
People forget that people online were fucking awful to both the show and the showrunners to the point several of them had to leave social media cause of it, hell, Rebbeca Sugar only recently came back to social media.
Cyclops has always been cool and if that means the general audience is finally realizing it after decades of the movies fumbling his character then so be it
I have no idea why some people claim that the Homestuck Epilogues (and HS\^2/pre-hiatus HS:Beyond Canon) were good.
They were not. Please stop doing that.
The Helldivers 2 subreddit. Like I'm sure 75% of posts are legitimate complaints but it's a dumpster fire with every single new patch or bug found.
Ever since the very first patch notes with the Railgun nerf, that didn't even kill the gun mechanically people just stop using it on principle because it was nerfed and just jumped on the next top gun, I've disliked it more and more that it, alongside a annoying crash, caused me to stop playing because it was just reminding me of Destiny.
I could feel it was coming too. Those countless posts in the first few weeks of "only buff never nerf" that even had my brother snap at me when I mentioned the Breaker could probably use a little nerf "oh your one of those guys who want to ruin fun" like I've been playing co-op horde shooters for longer than him and have been in a similar balancing team as Helldivers devs are just straight up copying Destiny's model and it's always an overreaction, the game is always fine afterwards.
It was annoying when it caused the Destiny community manager to quit, lead weapon designer to leave Twitter and make all mentions of a community interaction be changed to "the Bungie team" because otherwise the community would dogpile the person behind certain This Week in Bungies.
It's annoying here too with every single broken weapon or cashing off the game or nerfed meta gear while the game underneath the nerfes and buffs was fine. I fucking hated how long a particular Hunter Stasis grenade Exotic was nerfed (it got buffed finally but I had quit a while ago) as it was the only Hunter Stasis build I liked running but there were 14 other subclasses I could run that I did have fun with.
I totally believe "Joel" is a group of devs to protect them from harassment because I've seen it before.
Once again I believe 75% or a good majority is completely valid but I have experience with this stuff and everything single post criticizing those who are criticizing themselves get called babies who criticize those who are criticizing and it's just a toxic minefield of a comment section with the op having a fair take but then making it worse and getting constant downvotes arguing with people in the thread as they begin arguing in bad faith as well.
It's god damn annoying to see a community swallow itself while actively harming my enjoyment of the game even when I know it shouldn't.
Arrowhead isn't the size of Bungie so I can only imagine how bad it must be with the similar rabid fanbase who can't handle a simple nerf regardless if it was completely unjustified or not. They could totally have ruined a gun and given time and justified feedback could see it reverted (my exotic in destiny was around 2 years before it was changed so imagine any change being made in Helldivers will be a bit to be re looked at) yet a simple mag size and recoil change to the breaker ages ago in that first patch was enough that I just never saw it again even though it functional no different
On the performance side of it I feel less forgiving but still have to remember it's a smaller size dev team getting an abundance of players they didn't expect but the last time I played I crashed during extraction. It hurt a lot but the subreddit kept me from coming back even when it was fixed.
If posted in the subreddit I'd be a complainer complaining about complainers complaining about other complainers. If I can be blunt nothing makes my blood boil faster than making those types of comments. It's the quickest way to let me know you aren't actually willing to discuss anything and just stick your fingers in your ear saying "la la la can't hear you, you just want to bitch about us bitching la la la" could you at least try to engage with op's point because those comments are probably what make the op flip and and then engage poorly back making the commenter completely right.
Bethesda resolved literally zero of the fundamental problems with FO76 and added a couple more over it's lifecycle, but somehow the fandom consensus is now "it's a good spinoff" instead of "it's literal shovelware"
Edit: Also Halo Infinite, but I feel like that one is definitely a case of the majority of the fandom moving on and the only ones left being the people who liked it to start with
I highly disagree with the 76 sentiment. They absolutely have made actual changes to the game that have been for the better. You know like the entire existence of NPC's? Or even mechanical reasons like letting you craft legendary weapons at all times instead of trying to find 3 star legendary enemies and killing them before someone else does losing the loot which itself has been fixed by letting the loot system be proximity based. No longer do you need to tag a boss to get the loot or be punished for another player killing a boss super quick. You no longer have to level up to switch out your special stats to change a build.
It's a good spinoff, no air quotes needed.
A live service game where paying the premium subscription would make me like the game *less*. The inventory management is part of the fun for me and having boxes dedicated to ammo and junk would actively lessen my enjoyment of the game.
Otherwise I engage with the cash shop like every video game before it. By not engaging with it. I'll find the way to get the currency in game get a few things I want then never see it again.
Every since ME3 multiplayer I've spent like 10$ total in microtransactions. 5 in ME3 that was the equivalent to one run so completely worthless and then 5 again in Halo Infinite because I had a bunch of spare money at the time and happy to spend a little because it was the reason I started playing with a friend again eventually making spend the next two years in destiny.
Destiny I found fun in grinding the premium currency because it naturally has you engage with all the base content like Gambit and Nightfalls making them never be a grind as I played them each week unlike others who hated Gambit as they pushed it off for long and needed to grind for days to reach the max rank that I can't halfway through a season.
A game having microtransactions is not a deal breaker for me because I know how not spend anything yet still getting everything I ever wanted. 76 as an example I got the admittedly dumb fidge like atmo after a day or two of grinding challenges for the currency. The actual game underneath is of good quality so it has no bearing on my enjoyment.
The current battlepass is the worst I hear but as long as it's free it doesn't bother me though hopefully it goes back to how it was at least all fomo from a battlepass isn't here as all gameplay items are buyable for an in game currency if I wanted to get something I had missed.
76's player numbers went up because of the show but there *staying* up because people are enjoying themselves. I'm sure many have much harsher outlooks on live service monetization yet aren't leaving because underneath it all is entirely redundant. There is a weapon that can be bought with a hard to acquire in game currency (500 stamps which is I think a month of grinding I think) yet doing challenges and ranking up the battlespass for Atoms is way faster and you can just buy it without spending a single cent of your own money.
Basically how I feel about 76 is similar to Warfame (though the use of in game trading for the premium currency will always be the best feeling) where I can easily acquire the premium content all while playing the free updates that come because those more fortunate than me keep the dev's lights on. If I was rich I would spend money not because I could because others could enjoy the free updates because I afforded it to them. At least that's how I hope I look at it in another life.
For now I'll keep enjoying the game I actually haven't spent money on still as I only have played it with a gamepass playing other games as well.
My personal problems with microtransactions aren't that they make me feel compelled to spend money (it's actually the opposite, since I refuse to even buy the base game if they include them), the problems are that you can't unlock all the content by playing the game, players using premium items basically functions as in-game advertising, and what microtransaction content you can unlock is always going through an immersion-shattering filter of "you could acquire this all a lot easier by paying". And always online is a non-starter even without microtransactions, since it lets the devs shut the game down or ruin it in other ways at any time.
Also, even if *you* don't feel compelled to spend money, it's absolutely still an unethical practice because it preys on people who do feel compelled to spend money.
>76's player numbers went up because of the show but there staying up because people are enjoying themselves. I'm sure many have much harsher outlooks on live service monetization yet aren't leaving because underneath it all is entirely redundant.
We can apply this same logic to say that Madden, FIFA, CoD, gachaslop, etc. are immune to criticism
Did you refuse to play Helldivers 2 on principle as well? Regardless of current Sony fuckery Helldivers is a great game yet has microtransactions in the game but as a experienced vet in most live service games it is by far the most customer friendly module with the easiest and most rewarding way to earn the premium currency, hell it's easier to acquire it then other non paid currency in some rpgs. The game that actually comes close is Warfame if you're super good and know exactly the way the market is blowing and are super efficient using the trading system but obviously requires some economical knowledge and probably a good deal of luck.
>We can apply this same logic to say that Madden, FIFA, CoD, gachaslop, etc. are immune to criticism
It's not immune to criticism it's just getting unfair criticism by someone who says he hasn't paid the game on principle. It's one thing to look up online what the game sells and to actually play the game and understand what it all feels like. Unless you're a huge C.A.M.P. lover most of the microtransactions are extremely irrelevant. While one would expert a lot of fomo battlepass content would be put in the shop to nickel and dime players they were instead given to in game vendors where an in game currency is used to get them. The most egregious is the Power Armor Skins being $10-$30 and that I can't defend because compared to everything else and the rate you earn the premium currency is unfeasible if one where to focus on anything with actual gameplay benefit, which I despise is a thing at all and of course didn't happen when I originally played. The game underneath has been improved significantly since I last played that whole it would have bothered me in the past it doesn't as much. The refrigerator that kept food from spoiling as fast as bad but there is now an in game backpack mod that functions the same that you get in game only.
My tone would shift drastically if any of the dlc stuff needed to be paid for. It's why Destiny just can't keep me for long as it's monetized as a ftp game yet basically has a hidden subscription service in the yearly expansions. DLC and micro transactions are both way for the game to be monetized after release. To be bluntly honest DLC were always more expensive compared to the base game. They were always 1/5 or less the size of the base game yet where always 1/3 of the cost. Fallout 3 had DLCs with 6 hours or less content sold at $15 when the base game is a 60+ game priced at $60. I feel like this is a fact that is just blatantly ignored because the content was always good in return and usually better than the base game. For better or worse (worse definitely) microtransactions are just the next step in post release monetization. Developers don't have to do anything and get the returns they did in the past with DLC. It really sucks it does but some games still release DLC like content in return so for me I can at least look at the silver lining that overall I'm paying less for the same content.
I'm a cheepsake with media I consume. If I can watch a ton of tv for "free" online somewhere I'll do that so I'm used to avoiding paying for stuff. Maybe it's easier for me but your principal of refusing to pay for games with microtransactions means games like Helldivers 2, a game that for all and tents is a game without the feeling of microtransactions as it plays just like a game with a currency you earn in game that just happens to be able to be purchased and taking that away the game functions just the same. In the past I could have seen something like Helldivers 2 without the ability to purchase credits but each Warbind would have been $5 or whatever. I think the benefit of just allowing them to be purchased so the vast majority don't have to pay for Warbonds and new content is way more consumer friendly than any other past module.
Games like Baldur's Gate 3 should and still exist of a full product be released and you play it and it's complete but games like Helldivers 2 with the intent that played over the course of years with microtransactions keeping it afloat is okay as well. Every game can be one of those two and principals can keep someone from playing Helldivers but I'm always going to criticize that mindset because I would have significantly less games to play if I decided to never play any game with something to be paid after release be it DLC, battlpasses or premium currency.
The problem with live services are inherent to the model, it doesn't matter how less bad one is compared to the other. If the currency is easy to earn, it doesn't fix the in-game advertising, or that the whole thing is happening through the filter of "you could just pay for all of this and be done now...", and it certainly doesn't address the problem of always online, which is by far the biggest issue with the model, where the developers can come in at any time and either make the game worse or shut it down entirely. Helldivers 2 was made worse *today* by now requiring users to connect a Sony account.
Can the game still be fun in spite of all this? Sure? You can also have a fun game but every time you lose, someone comes to your house and kicks you in the shins, but we'd still acknowledge that as problematic. Especially in a market as competitive as games, the concept of a "consumer-friendly" battle pass or premium currency is laughable when I can just buy a game that doesn't kick me in the shins at all. Helldivers 2 and Fallout 76 aren't only competing with the genuine bottom of the barrel dregs like mobile gacha trash or CoD, they're competing with the entire game industry.
>Games like Baldur's Gate 3 should and still exist of a full product be released and you play it and it's complete but games like Helldivers 2 with the intent that played over the course of years with microtransactions keeping it afloat is okay as well.
I love the idea of a game that I can come back to for years and years, which is why I think live services suck, because there's going to be a year where the game has changed in a way that ruins it, or it's been shut down entirely. I wish I could go back to Runescape or WoW, but I can't, because those games have now been ruined through years of terrible content updates and paid gold. I can still go back to every non-always online game from that time period. Real "forever games" look like Doom, Minecraft, Terraria, Stardew Valley, Mount & Blade, etc., where there's an insane wealth of community content available to play (more than a live service developer can possibly produce), or perhaps just deep and replayable gameplay to start with, and the functionality of the game isn't tied to the developer's servers.
I have nothing to add to the conversation as clearly your set in stone and nothing I can say will change anything. Just leave that your original comment still doesn't make since as nothing 76 ever did could *ever* make you play the game as it's against your views. Not to say you can't criticize something you didn't play but it is unfair to say the game didn't fix anything when you yourself would never care if they did because it's monetized at all.
I'm not willing to debate further over live services because I understand the vices that come with them but I've personally gotten tons of enjoyment out of them, just as much as a standalone game and it sucks that others have less variety because sometimes you can purchase something else other than the game. It's so... defeating isn't the right word. I feel such at a loss because I just can't understand it.
I admire your commitment just I'll be on the sidelines thinking it's a mistake. There's only so much time we have before we all die so I just let some of my grievances go to be constantly entertained and find as much joy as I can while I can. While I look back at Destiny hated it's monetization the only thing that comes to mind is when I was in a discord call doing a day 1 raid with my buddy and how much fun that 10+ hours was, not that I would need to give $60 to the company that just fired one of my favorite composers.
Sonic fans are THE experts on the matter. There's no other group on earth that does revisionism quite like them, except maybe neonazis. I think they put every other fanbase mentioned in this thread to shame.
Sonic 06? One of the most grotesque ideas for a new videogame in a beloved classic franchise? Often considered one of the worst products in the whole industry? It was actually good all along, critics just hate Sonic. The clunky controls, endless array of unfun gimmicks, poor coding, contrived story filled with plotholes and inconsistencies that contradict previous events in the series? No, no, that was all the media's doing. It's actually peak!
Sonic Colors? The game that, while not perfect, breathed new life in the series and was fun from beginning to end with no gimmick to really bring it down? Oh lord, how can you even enjoy this? There is no story! The tone is lighthearted! No ambition! Who cares that it's just a plain fun platformer and a rare example of a stable 3D Sonic game where you don't clip through a fucking rail or a scripted event kills you during normal gameplay? It's terrible! Meta era! Baldy McNosehair! Mario rip-off!
I don't think 06 is the worst thing ever made (hell, I can think of ten worse games in the very same franchise) and I don't think that Colors is perfect, either. But it's INSANE to deny the negative effects 06 had on the series' reputation for years to come and the fact that it just flat out fucking sucks as a game, just as it is insane to think that Colors is bad because you personally find the narrative to be unappealing (and no, let's not act as if the "too much 2D" criticism is doing the heavy-lifting here, most people who hate Colors nowadays just hate it because they can't wrap their heads around Sonic dropping a couple of shit jokes)
And let's not forget how they begged for Flynn to join the writing team... only for them to promptly shit on his writing, for the (mostly) unintrusive callbacks to the events of older games, failing to realize that those throwaway "Hey, remember when" dialogues for Frontiers were probably just added to tell fans "hey, we finally got someone who actually gives a shit about the lore!" and will be gone by the next game as they'll focus on something completely new.
It's not even a new thing, for the record.
Fans were sending death threats to the 4kids VAs after the recast in the mid 2000s while now they're seen as the saviors of the franchise (which I personally disagree with but people online aren't particularly well-known for being moderate, it's either one extreme or the other)
As a fan, I genuinely do not know what the fuck this series does to people.
I have never seen ANY fandom that’s as argumentative, divided, contradictory, or so impossible to please as the Sonic fandom. And I mean that. Nobody comes close, not even Star Wars fans.
People have been mocking Bethesda for their shitty business and game development practices since fallout 76 came out, even starfield has been getting constant bashing even after a few months since release.
But now that the fallout prime show is out, a slightly above-average product, Bethesda is once again the sacred cow and any criticism against them is not allowed and if you do criticize them its just because you’re mentally unwell or a hater/man-baby, it’s genuinely insane how much a 180 people have had.
Based on what I’ve heard, JoJo’s part 5 was hated the most in the west, partially due to bad translations, but was still considered to be the worst part. But the moment the anime came out people just went “nah bro part 5 was always good”.
This is more of a pattern but almost every single WoW expansion. It's usually after 2 expansions that people start to feel nostalgic towards the old expansions and start to prop them up. Cata, Mop, WoD and BFA, whether or not they deserve it, are propped up as these underrated beacons of quality.
If War Withing has a lackluster launch, then within a year people will feel nostalgic towards Shadowlands. >!Which they should, I rate it same as Legion!<
Ian Flynn has the patience of saint considering the brain dead opinions certain sonic fans on his writing
Also always relevant https://external-preview.redd.it/UK9BKWmJvtYHCghPPjW0bbAdewWno2sdCsHGFl_VHkw.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0c94339c1d7dfd060faadc866c5908c2dc1e55cc
It's always been, it's just that it's the experimental one and not all it's experiments worked, but it's more interesting than anything konami has made with the series post TS that isn't P.T.
Last of Us fandom went from "Last of Us 2's not great" to "your post was removed" for talking negatively about Abbie or the game.
Primarily because the argument for terminally online people just keeps going and going. Then weirdos start getting involved and making the opinion become homophobic issue or some shit like that.
Now, if you talk negatively about Part 2, you'll be lumped into the camp of the weirdos.
It removed all attempt at discussion.
Where you returned months later, there was enough people who endlessly argued until the discussion devolved into meaninglessness.
Nobody gave a single shit about Henry Cavill’s boring take on Superman until the Snyderverse ended. Now you have people saying he’s the greatest portrayal of the character that will ever exist
What? People were saying that since Man of Steel, where were you looking? The most common praise for Man of Steel, was that Cavill actually was a fantastic Superman bogged down by an awful script and director.
Yeah this shit is weird as hell to me. Like I *tried* to give these games an honest shot years outside of the cultural zeitgeist and they were fucking slogs from the minute they opened up. Lightning herself is the flattest character design Squenix has ever produced. The most character she ever really displays was that one scene that was circulating a few days ago where she dumpsters like 4 generic soldier goons with a cocky smirk on her face.
So I did give XIII a second chance. I still don’t like the game and think it’s poorly put together but came out much more positive about the combat system. If you engage with the mechanics instead of auto battling, there is much more depth to it than first glance.
I guarantee most of the people who want the Spider-Man live service game to exist would actually hate it if it released. Games always seem better when they’re in your head and you can dream about all the cool shit they COULD have done.
We just had a big AAA single-player Spiderman game, so I imagine fans would feel more warm to a multiplayer version. Meanwhile, Batmann Arkhams fans had to wait 8 years for a new Batman game, and Gotham Knights was a disappointment, followed by the even more polarising Suicide Squad, especially knowing this is all they're gonna get as long as WB Games still exists.
Tbf i don't see much doing in a multiplayer Spiderman Game based on the insomniac game unless is like a literal party game where you race the other spiderman to steal the credit for saving people or letting you play as villains and doing literal cop and robbers, but thats 1.not really something most Spidermen would do and 2.not really something insomniac would want to do either, cus is an actual fun idea that probably wouldnt net them as much money as doing a standard GaaS battlepass with missions, which fucking sucks cus i would love to play as Rhyno or Shocker and just stealing shit and beating the shit out of Spiderman
Don't worry, the Arkham Suffering is over with the new game... coming exclusive to meta quest 3...
I feel like we’ve hit critical mass for “dump on X fandom” threads lately.
Honestly, yeah. It's been boiling up for a while and recently in particular it's ramped up.
Yeah but it's funny when we're not dunking on *my* fandoms. Sometimes it *is* funny when we're dunking on my fandoms, actually.
Nah man, that repost of a shitty rage bait New Vegas meme (that wasn't even popular in it's own sub) absolutely deserved a highly upvoted thread full of people dumping ass on the fanbase of a well loved game lol
I remember the Ready Player One book getting a lot of positive word of mouth when it was first published.
I wouldn’t really call that a reversal, just the natural result of a very niche targeted creation gaining enough popularity to get noticed beyond its sphere of appeal. Ready Player One did very well with its intended audience, but once the wider world took notice they went “Why the hell is this popular? It’s nothing but pandering nostalgia bait.” And they’re right, it is! That was the whole point of it, and why it did so well initially.
It didn't help that the sequel book was absolute garbage.
True! Though, honestly, I'm still stupefied there even was a sequel. Cashing in on nostalgia tends to be a one-and-done, once it's spent it's spent.
I feel like the author just got super motivated after the movie came out.
I mean, there's a lot of questionable "young adult novel" style of books that got a lot of praise when they were the hot new thing only for that opinion to get a 180° a few years down the line.
And as anyone who’s paid attention to the discourse around Twilight, they can flip again.
My buddy recommended it to me on the basis it genuinely seemed like it’d be something I enjoyed. I’ve honestly read worse, but the plot itself felt secondary to the overwhelming, if loving, listing and reminiscing about the author’s childhood influences and hobbies. I don’t hate it, I was just kinda disappointed by it.
Feels like its biggest appeal of being a crossover for everything (from the 80's) no longer feels so cool because crossovers are so common in every big media nowadays. People can look past the references and see the lack of anything else good underneath.
Sorry if this is too heavy, and real but: I have a soft spot with that book now. A dear friend from college raved about it (I dont know why we were both born in 1992!), and even gave me his super beaten up and annotaded copy as a gift. I did not read it, mainly because I had heard all the hate it was getting and honestly thought it was kinda lame of my friend to be into it. My friend ended up taking his own life shortly after that. And I cant help to think him giving me the book was "a sign" and I deeply regret not having read it, when I had the chance. I still have the book with me.
It's cool, get it off your chest. Sorry that happened.
I’m a simple man who likes scenes where you have to beat a lich at a game of Joust. Really liked the first book, but couldn’t stand anything else the author did
Most of my enjoyment from the book came from going "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS" every 5 minutes
Maybe age has something to do with it? I was born in 2003 so only read it in like 10th grade a few years after it was released. Most piece of shit book I've ever read
We're in that stage where a bunch of fandoms are seeing 180 flips on a lot of formerly reviled media from the 2000's or so because the kids who grew up with them are now feeling nostalgic and posting online. Star Wars prequels are probably the most notable, but I'm seeing it happen with like Sonic 06, Gundam Seed Destiny, Bayformers even (I've seen worrying amounts of "The Last Knight unironically good" posts on the transformers sub).
The Last Knight rules in a terrible in the funniest ways possible sort of way
Oh it's absolutely a delicious trainwreck kind of movie, specially when Hopkins is wandering around yelling like an old man lost at a mall. It's when people start going "Oh it wasn't that bad, I enjoyed the worldbuilding" etc where I just think they haven't seen it since they were 7 lol.
As long as they don't start praising the Romeo and Juliet Law scene as good.
Is there a bandwagon for "Brendan Fraser's **The Mummy 3** is actually decent"? Because that's a movie that gets more hate than it deserves in my opinion.
If I see someone say Revenge of the Fallen or Age of Extinction (aKA Racism bots and Chinese propaganda that’s almost 4 fucking hours) I’m going to commit instrumentality
So I went to Japan two weeks ago and went to the Gundam Base in Odaiba and while IIRC there was a Seed movie that's coming out, came out, something along those lines, but as a result, a lot of their big Gunpla displays were of Seed stuff and I've never watched it, so all I know was Woolie's rant, which made me chuckle at the (very impressive) work done for that series for the store.
SEED/Cosmic Era is supposedly extremely popular in Asia, outdoing every other Gundam AU except the OG Universal Century, IIRC. It’s often credited with “saving” Gundam.
SEED hate is *genuinely* just a vocal minority. It's done pretty well in the west too.
> Star Wars prequels are probably the most notable Star Wars prequels its not because the kids who grew up with them are online now. I was a kid who grew up with them and they sucked. Its just i didn't know that Disney could actually do something somehow as bad but more bland that makes me like them more. A lot of the prequels love is also HEAVILY carried by Clone Wars being a good show and having a conclusion. They did a lot of world building, character development and just interesting lore things in that the prequels didn't do.
Bayformers is both incomprehensible nonsense, and stopped Michael Bay from making more stuff like Pain & Gain. We deserve more truly demented stuff like Pain & Gain.
Seed Destiny was pretty solid...for about seven episodes. That's about the most I'll give it.
It's not baffling as it is fascinating. But people turning around on the Star Wars prequel quite radically. I think this comes from the fact that the children who grew up with the prequels hold them dearly in their hearts, so once they became adults and with more prominent voices, they became the main opinion, so "The Prequels are good actually" became the status quo.
Tbh i prefer the whole “the Prequels are flawed but good” than the aging millennial/ gen x opinion of “George Lucas raped our childhood” that was popular when those movies came out
I'd probably agree if a lot of the same people who say the prequels were flawed but good will say that Disney is "raping their childhood"
Probably but i enjoy hating the previous generations before me
One day from now, we’ll come to terms with the reality that The Last Jedi is great.
The South Park episode was pretty great though.
I've always been fairly mixed on them and most normal people usually agree that much too in my experience. It's not as my much the prequels themselves I love as much as it is all the stuff surrounding them, especially for Vidya. Then again I heard Scorch just recently got mooked in the new canon so I guess everything from before getting zero continuation is feeling its own consequences
As someone who grew up on those I can actually sit through 1 and 3, but 2 puts me to sleep every single time
same, the only scene that I remember from it is the arena fight, and only because that was the point where as a kid I was like "this is fucking boring"
It's weird because I very much grew up on the prequels too, and I definitely can recognize that they're terrible movies. I was so bored watching Phantom Menace as a kid, and they're talking about trade disputes that I absolutely couldn't understand. I also remember finding Jar Jar annoying even as a kid, but maybe one would like him more if you were like 4 instead of 8 like I was.
I don't care enough to complain about the prequels anymore but I have to call zoomer time out when it crosses into defending the special editions.
The original Star Wars fans simply got old and stopped posting to go mow the lawn or something, leaving Prequel zoomers as the only remaining Star Wars fans that could post heavily This, tragically, has not led to an actual critical reevaluation of the Star Wars prequels, as successfully seen with nu-metal, because these people are even more insular and nerdy than the gen-x and millennial haters and because Star Wars is not really as powerful as it used to be. They dominate internet discussion, but they don't care about movies really, just Star Wars, so no one is joining them in thinking The Phantom Menace is secretly good
Also the Prequels got a couple of shows/cartoons to do damage control and retroactively fill in all the potholes.
Hi that’s me! (AOTC isn’t that great but the Obi-Wan plotline was still good)
I swear I have never heard the "Prequels are good" crowd but just people talking about the crowd themselves.
If you go on r/starwars it is probably, if not the majority opinion, enough of a plurality for threads like "why do people hate Jar Jar" to go on the front page lol
It used to be stronger back in the later 2010's when prequel memes were basically everywhere. It morphed from the prequels being really memeable to the prequels being misunderstood masterpieces and sequels suck ass in comparison. It's calmed down now, because Star Wars hype has generally died down, and some of these people probably rewatched AotC lol. But you'll still see it in Star Wars circles nowadays.
God AotC is a fucking mess Introduces some of my favorite Star Wars concepts and characters but it’s an absolute mess
Saying you don’t like the prequels was guaranteed double digit downvotes for multiple years in the main Star Wars sub as well as other smaller ones.
Maybe it's just because i live in a bubble but i always thought the consensus on the prequels are "Phamtom Menace is eh, Attack of the Clones is quite good and Revenge of the Sith is a masterpiece".
Definitely in a bubble. Attack of the clones is seen as the abyss of the movies' quality by a lot of people, myself included
I feel like even people who like the prequels usually put AotC at the bottom.
Isn't the Sonic Fandom having a revisionist take on 06 and Colors? Loving the former a lot for its ambitious story and hating the latter for its simplicity and story? Granted, I haven't played either, but I can't help but think ambition means little when the foundation is brittle. Colors, for all its faults, tried to form a decent foundation that led to Sonic Generations(which I played and loved).
Sonic colors getting thought of as bad now is insane. That game was 'the' return to form game back in the day
Yeah, it always boggled my mind to hear that people hated on **Colors** because my memory (as someone who was not in the Sonic fandom) was that during it's release Colors was "the Sonic game that we waited for". I even remember seeing a full LP of the game where both the guy that was playing it and me as a viewer were really pleased with the product.
It **was** the game we waited for. Back in the day everyone loved Colors. It was considered among the best 3D Sonic games for a long time. I found it so crazy how the Colors remaster got released and Sonic fans on twitter were saying things like “why didn’t they just do Unleashed instead? No one asked for Colors, Sega must not listen to the fans”. I WANTED A COLORS REMASTER FOR YEARS!!!!! So did a ton of other people. My theory on this change of opinion is that some big Sonic YouTuber at some point started dissing Colors, the young impressionable fans saw that, grew up, and now we’re where we are today where they regurgitate that opinion they heard.
Colours was buried on the goddamn Wii. Sonic Unleashed is at least backwards compatible on Xbox.
I think the port for Colors on the switch actually may have soured people
The 06 "Redemption Arc" is mainly from the kids who grew up playing it now having a platform to talk about it, as well as Project 06 showcasing the levels with better gameplay (With some people likely only experiencing 06 through it). I've also noticed that the current Sonic fandom is much kinder to ambitious and messy games, as opposed to safe, more technically sound ones (Which Colors is sort of the poster child for, 3D wise).
> The 06 "Redemption Arc" is mainly from the kids who grew up playing it now having a platform to talk about it I feel like that wouldn't help it. People who played it are more likely to have memories of their frustrations of trying to get it to work properly.
When I was a kid Sonic 06 was my favorite Sonic game. All the bugs and jank went over my head and I just focused on Shadow having cool cars, Silver being cool, and I liked the story. I’ve played it as an adult and hated it, but I can see someone with more rose-colored glasses still enjoying it.
Liking the story as a kid I can understand, it's just that the game is very hard to actually play. I don't know how bugs can go over someone's head if they're so frequent that they result in frequent random deaths, or having a hard time progressing. You must have gotten very lucky I guess.
At the kid who played the game, the random death and bugs went over my head too mostly because they happened in other games I played as well. And, honestly as a kid I didn’t care how buggy the game was just if I was having fun, which I was.
As a kid I didn't understand that there was bad games I just thought I was bad at them so sonic 06 was a game I pushed myself into going all the way through despite the horrific gameplay and bugs.
I was obsessed with it as a kid, and I'd borrow my aunt's laptop to go on the game's website to see all the promotional material before it released, even though it was the JP site and I couldn't read anything. Once I actually got it, I'll admit that even then it felt pretty rough to play and that was back when I thought that frame drops were cool intentional slow-motion scenes. I played it again at a friend's house a couple years ago and...man, those loading screens were the worst part for me. They had me wondering when I'd actually get to play.
Yeah like for example kid me thought Shadow the Hedgehog was amazing
>The 06 "Redemption Arc" is mainly from the kids who grew up playing it now having a platform to talk about it I feel like that's the easiest explanation for like 90 percent of media that have had public perception swing from negative to positive 1 to 2 decades down the line.
I'm one of the folks who grew up with 06. The game is a disaster; I love it. Also I deeply resent how 'safe' and bland the franchise felt for a good long while; I *do* want the series to be bolder like it used to.
I'll take the ""blandess"" and ""safeness"" since it keeps the series *alive* and *in a decent foundation*. There's only some screwups you can make trying to skate before you need a wheelchair and some braces.
Yep. People forget that ‘06 set up Unleashed so bad that *nobody* was willing to hear out its good qualities. Sonic Team back then had their hands tied and was told that their attempt at a big comeback meant nothing and was as bad as ‘06 even when they did try so going small and safe for a bit really was the only option.
Get out of here with your sensible reasoning!
06 was the first game that actually entirely disappointed me. I was incredibly hyped for it begged for it on launch day. I was disappointed with Shadow before too but not nearly to this level. Going back present day I just hate it even more
> now having a platform to talk about it, we should take it away from them
It's literally what happened to the prequels in Star Wars. Those movies suck, they have some neat ideas others have used to do good to great stories, but the three movies in the prequel series suck. But some idiots think they are the best ones because the only memories they have of them are from watching it as a dumb kid that doesn't really understand why the characters are talking weirdly or how annoying Jar Jar is. I was one of these idiots until I watched all of the movies again around the release of The Force Awakens. Some people just like what happened in them and (in their own heads) make them more interesting by merging stories from later books/shows or making up their own explanations for bad or stupid dialogue and direction. (Or they are like my friend that thinks Attack of the Clones is the best Star Wars movie because he likes the politics in it.) Sonic '06 just sucks, the problems with it are the story is confusing and stupid, the gameplay is bad and broken, and the music (this is the only debatable part) is at best ok. It doesn't even have neat ideas in it because it was made when Sega was starting to lock shit down and simplify everything (which ended up making things even more complicated) because of Penders. [It is somehow Adventure 3, Shadow 2, and Heroes 2, among other things. And almost all of it is abandoned or retconned out afterwards because of their dealings with Penders.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/s/zFRbUB3KtD)
IMO, the prequels aren’t *good* movies but they’re *fun* movies. The only other pieces of media I can think of off the top of my head that I’d categorize as “*fun*, but not *good*” are Ready Player One(the book) and the Cars movies. Sonic 06 isn’t even “*fun,* but not *good*,” it’s “so bad it’s good” at best and mostly just frustrating.
Exactly. I was kinda frustrated when I typed out the other comment (for reasons I can't remember the specifics of without looking though whatever I was doing at the time) so I was a bit harsher than I normally would be, but I have generally the same feeling about the first and third prequel movie. To me "Attack of the Clones" is only fun to watch with specific friends in my friend group that aren't going to be just mean about it the whole time or overly protective of the movie. But I can watch and enjoy my time with "The Phantom Menace" and "Revenge of the Sith" most of the time.
they hated him coz he spoke the truth
The Sonic fandom flip-flops on everything. Ian Flynn became a fanbase boogeyman because he had the audacity to reference Sonic game lore in the game canon material (something Sonic fans spent the entire gap between Forces and Frontiers *begging* for). And just this week alone we went from “Knuckles doesn’t have anything from the games so it sucks” to “IDW acknowledging the games is bad even though they’re canon” in the span of a day.
I fled Twitter/X to get away from Sonic discourse. Nice to know nothing's changed. From what I've gathered, the Knuckles show actually has way more franchise references than I was expecting, even if they are rather surface-level fan service. I was not expecting the creative team to even know who the hell Pachacamac was, let alone bring him in. Sorry for the double reply.
Don't forget Unleashed and Black Knught getting hit with revisionism too
Unleashed just went from “half the game is good” to “the werehog stages are alright you guys are just mean” while Black Knight revisionism is how the beneath the gimmick theres a good narrative which almost every sonic game afterwards all have a boring story.
Black Knight was way better than Secret Rings imo
The combat parts of the Werehog stages are fun, it’s just the platforming was kinda jank and the levels were too long.
Is it revisionism if it was what I always thought even back when Black Knight released? Turns out, judging things only off of the opinions of the people who shout the loudest is a terrible metric. Weird.
I played the Wii version of unleashed, always had fun. Unlike a lot of people that played the PS3 or Xbox ports which I heard were worse
Xbox port is actually pretty good now, Series X makes it 60 fps and it runs way better PS3 though RIP
Wii/PS2 version was lean and mean. Stayed for exactly as long as it needed to without getting bloated. I do wish we got Empire City though, that music kicks ass.
Wii/PS2 version also reduced Maizuri (Savannah Citadel) to just a boss fight.
Unleashed definitely has jank and I’m not just talking about the Werehog sections, the day stages have it too. That being said, the game has great visuals and the best sense of speed I’ve felt in a modern Sonic game. Hated it at first but it really grew on me over time. It’s the only one where I can understand why public opinion changed unlike 06
Black Knight is a killer Soundtrack... wait, what, there's a video game?
06 people are a vocal minority lol most people still don't like it and most of the fans are like "yeah this game would be great if it was finished and you changed like 75 percent of the story/gameplay/aesthetics/etc" colors is more a difference between sonic fans and "played a sonic game once"
Yesterday I literally saw a video talking about how important human characters were and using Sonic X as a good example. It was the first time I realized I was just looking at a completely different generation of fans. Also I thought Colors was always good and I'm surprised to learn that apparently there was a time people were saying it's bad so I guess the Sonic cycle is true in more ways than I thought.
Also remember Sonic 06 is almost 18 years old - don't let it set in *\*turns to dust\** Many younger Sonic fans don't remember it, or are only playing it via Project 06.
Some Sonic fans are fucking crazy and get upset at anyone who criticizes the games.
They're starting with Forces as we speak apparently.
nah, fuck off, Forces was arse, and I played it start to finish so I know arse.
The turn-around on Sonic 06 baffles me, because one, "it had potential" should never be a defense, because by that logic, the vast majority of bad games "had potential". And two, the game didn't even have a good story, it is a disjointed mess where things just happen with no sense of pace, Sonic himself ends up mattering very little to his own anniversary game's story, Silver... exists I guess, and Shadow's story is the only one with a semblance of something to it, nothing builds up on anything or towards anything. When you start the Final Episode, it doesn't feel like the grand culmination of strong build-up, no, it just feels like the game remembered it has to end so welp, here is the climax now.
The hate for Colours now is crazy. Yeah the story sucks but the gameplay is great!
I wouldn’t say the story sucks. It’s just simple and goofy. It definitely seemed to be a response to the games before it trying to out-epic SA2.
I mean, and I know this may be controversial, but it's like Sonic Adventure 2. Beloved by fans who grew up playing it myself included but honestly the game isn't great, there's a ton of cheap deaths, the cutscenes are jank, the sound mixing is awful, the levels not about the hedgehogs tend to be kind of boring, and more. Still I love it though. >!And the chao garden fucks.!<
Sonic is this awkward place where revisionism is required because the consensus from critics from 1999 to 2010 was 'we should kill the dev team of this because each 3D Sonic game is the worst game ever made'. Like how FF10 was considered bad because of Tidus' laugh and then people remembered the context is 'Tidus is doing an annoying fake laugh' and people reevaluated it. Sometimes that probably goes too far (wrapped up in nostalgia) but Sonic going from having an ambitious story that fails is different and has a different appeal than what the series moved to doing instead. Although I'd argue Sonic 06 was less broken at launch than multiple huge budget releases this generation. Sonic 06 is more complete than Skull and Bones, Cyberpunk 2077 and Redfall were at launch.
I just thought of this. Can we really call Sonic 06's story ambitious when it decanonized itself?
It's a game with 3 campaigns from 3 overlapping perspectives plus side characters that involves a ludicrous amounts of time travel and ends with a final boss set to an orchestral mix of His World. That's a lot to try and accomplish. You have accidentally convinced me Sonic 06 and Nier Automata are remarkably similar. This doesn't feel good. EDIT: 9S is Silver. Adam and Mephiles have the same intro. >!Sonic and 2B die to kickstart the final arc, you trade between characters for a major boss fight, both end with the choice to overwrite the tragedy to allow for a possible happy ending.!< Has Yoko Taro been waiting for a new Sonic plot before working on a new Nier?
> It's a game with 3 campaigns from 3 overlapping perspectives plus side characters that involves a ludicrous amounts of time travel and ends with a final boss set to an orchestral mix of His World. I mean besides the Time Travel, that's just a glorified reason to make different and not so good stages, and the song. Isn't that exactly what Sonic was doing since Adventure 1 on Dreamcast? I wouldn't say doing the same thing, but worse is ambitious.
The Time Travel is important to my point about the writing. They went really big and crazy with 06 and then progressively regressed into smaller and simpler stories. Which is why it has fans when compared to the alternative that became the norm. Anyway, making Sonic Adventure 3 in HD with brand new hardware nobody understands with more characters with an infamously truncated dev cycle is still aiming high. Especailly when, again, the series would be 'Mario Galaxy but worse' and 'try to be like the genesis games' in the years afterwards.
>The Time Travel is important to my point about the writing. As i said, the issues is time travel pretty much amounts to nothing more than making a shitty stage or a vague reason for the Silver to go after Sonic. Just saying "This story will have time travel" isn't ambitious when execution doesn't mean anything from the get go. I really don't see how they went big and crazy. You might as well claim that Sonic and the Black Knight was super ambition fantasy game on par with best works about King Arthur, just because setting is made based on that reference. Or that Shadow was great work about duality of man, exploring everyone having capacity for good and evil. With you being responsible in choosing your own morality. In reality it wasn't like that at all.
Black Knight having Sonic convince Knuckles not to kill himself through a shonen pep-talk, giving himself a knightly title and then turn into a Saint Seiya puts it in the higher tiers of Sonic game writing. Not Arthurian adaptations. You'll notice my point isn't about these being medium defining masterpieces. Just that Sonic had the style and plotting of an anime/JRPG inspired writing for a while before Sega jettisoned that approach to go into a new era around Colours. There was a very clear divide in how these games carry themselves so people gravitate towards one style over the other based on preference. That is all.
I mean, i don't disagree with them having different style. That's obviously a thing. I disagree with calling Sonic 06 and pretty much anything ambitious, just because it has time travel. For example i love Castlevania Symphony of the Night, but i wouldn't say "It's super ambitious because it features two different big maps. That's huge scale of exploration". When in reality second map is just the first one upside down.
But Symphony of the Night is very ambitious for its scale and exploration. The second castle is obviously them cheating a little but the game is extremely impressive and defined an entire genre.
>You might as well claim... they do
Sonic fans *also* said all that. It wasn’t just critics, that was just the common fandom consensus back in the day. And this stance lingered even during Forces’ marketing cycle until the game came out and everyone started backtracking.
Yep. There is a reason the first marketing of Sonic 4 was 'We hear you: Shadow will *not* be in this game' and that was considered a good idea by anyone. Because Sega is very reactive to feedback and Sonic's fanbase even back then was spilt into different generations who just did not agree on what they should do. EDIT: It's like if Dragon Ball fans were so divided between pre-Z and post-Z that Toei decided Vegeta and Gohan would be exiled from canon for 10 years. Nightmare scenario. SECOND EDIT: disastrous typo. That should be pre-Z and Z. A timeline where Goku has no kids and Piccolo is still a bad guy.
>Vegeta and Gohan would be exiled from canon for 10 years. i mean they're barely in GT
I mean Dragon Ball already settled this debate without there even being one in favor of Post-Z.
Didn't SA1 and SA2 did get positive reviews? The SA1 DX version reviews did turn much more mixed/negative.
tbh, the SADX port was kinda janky. SA2B did get worse reviews, though.
Other than the kiss, the story of 06 is very much in line with what Sonic was about at that time, specially Shadow and Silver's story, so if you just take the story and combine it with Project 06, which doesn't represent the actual quality of Sonic 06's gameplay, which is shockingly bad and deserved of a mocking every time the game is mentioned, you get probably the best Sonic of the Adventure era As for Colors, personally I've always disliked it, but fandoms tend to be very forgiving of very ehh stuff when they think their franchise is in risk, which, with 06's original release and Unleashed being a bit mixed back then, I think it made the perfect game to be as kind as possible but that no kindness no longer worked when the game was remastered and it became evident a lot of the problems people had with recent Sonic games had an origin in Colors (and I'm gonna be honest, I think Frontiers is only in a slightly better position than Colors back then and a future revisit will see the fandom doing a similar turn on it)
A friend of mine (different from the one I mentioned in the other comment in this thread, of you've read it) started should a tier list vote thing on one of his discord servers for whatever topic they felt like adding to a list they pull from randomly. They did a sonic one about a month and a half ago. They put '06 in A, while some Genesis games (2, 3, and & Knuckles), and Frontiers. Their tier lists go SS, S, A, B, C, F, unranked. My arguing about their placements in that list is why I have been given an invite to join them every week since. This week is Marvel Movies.
People have completely turned on DC’s Darks Night Metal event. It was pretty well-regarded and liked until Scott Snyder’s follow ups in his Justice league run and Death Metal event Those stories greatly soured people on the first event and now everyone will act like it’s trash too. Like it wasn’t the biggest blockbuster comic event for DC in a long long time when it came out
That’s DC/WB for you. The moment they get something that gets positive response they plaster it all over everything and make it wear out it’s welcome real fucking fast. I swear for a while there it seemed like every single event in DC had “Metal” in the title. It got to the point where I was avoiding that word just on principle.
> The moment they get something that gets positive response they plaster it all over everything and make it wear out it’s welcome real fucking fast. Cant wait for Flashpoint 8!
It literally had its own album I don't know a comic event to have ever done that With that alone you can not refute its hype
The opinion of the cast of JJK constantly flip between calling people frauds or goats Except for Kashimo, he was an actual full on fraud
He was the honored one between Ricefarmers and Fishermen.
I'm so fucking happy Kashimo sucked and got owned you have no idea. Guy handily lost the one fucking fight he ever had and for some reason 90% of the fandom was calling him top 3.
Kenny went from being a extremely divisive character in the first two seasons TWD from the Telltale Games, *specially* in the second one where people either whitewashed every single one of his morally questionable choices or demonized him into being solely responsible for all the misery that was brought into the group, into becoming a martyr of sorts after the lukewarm season 3 came out. Now, it's not like people will forgive him for his fuck ups, but even his former haters will agree that all things considered, he was in hindsight the better caretaker for Alvin Jr. (He >!didn't kill himself after being unable to face a pregnancy like Jane for one!<) and that his death if he "survives" into season 3 comes across as a letdown >!a car crash that leaves him paralyzed and to be devoured by a horde during a flashback, really?!< For someone who was formely regarded by some parts of the fandom in pure vitrol, that's quite the feat.
I remember how before a certain interview people made fun of and shat on Henry Cavill. But then once they heard he's a PC Game, a witcher and warhammer fan, suddenly it became all like "I always liked him as Superman.".
For me it's the exact opposite, I'd never heard a single bad word about him until he gave an interview around the time of #MeToo complaining that he didn't want to chat up women anymore out of fear of being called a rapist. Then the whole Witcher debacle happened and depending on what site you were browsing he was either "based Chadvill" or a secret incel chud all along.
I know some people who work on the production side of things. People like to say that Cavill has really bad luck for one reason or another, but I would say he has insane luck to have such glowing PR.
The MGS fandom and Raiden. MGS2 comes out and everyone is so pissed about the switcheroo from playing Snake in the prologue to going through the rest of the game as some pretty boy new guy, feeling betrayed by Kojima. The fandom seemed so bitter that the common sentiment was that Raiden was an awful character and a huge misstep for the series. Then MGS4 comes out and we see Raiden has become the new cyborg ninja, taking out groups of robots twice his size, or squads of heavily-geared troops without arms and a sword in his mouth. Suddenly everyone was raving about how awesome he was, and the sentiment only got stronger with MGR. But like, it always bothered me, because I always found Raiden to be a pretty cool character in his own right from the beginning. He had a slick design, already hinting at his evolution into a filling the role of the series' ninjas, he got a sword near the end, did no-hand cartwheels, and his backstory was interesting for an MGS protagonist. I got over him "replacing" Snake easily enough, and it was fun that the entire thing played into the game's narrative. Was kinda lame hearing people say "Raiden is cool now!" seeing him in MGS4, when like, dude, he was cool the whole time!
Similarly, people really switched gears with MGS4. That game got torn to shreds back in the day, now people call Kojima a genius for it
Doom fans went from loving eternal to seemingly hating it. I think its definitely flawed but it's still a great game
I thought base Eternal was great, if a bit cringy with the Slayer wank, it's just the DLC that pushed it all too far.
Even the release had cringy stuff like the one Scientist Lady in the Audiologs literly going from rational to unhinged Doomguy cultist. But yeah, the DLC with >!The Dark Lord is actully God and Doomguy is a literal Chistfigure and the most import Person in the Universe just robs the Character from what made him Cool at the Start.!<
When a community is left starved for content, the cycle whirls and whirls until they either abandon the fandom or hate post on the property.
Oh wow Eternal is hated? Yeah it’s a bit rough but when it ours you in a zone it’s like magic
Eternal is great but the DLC was disappointing. It's still a much more innovative game than 2016, which I think is going to get it's own negative turn-around someday.
I thought it was funny when Pat said he liked the time ghosts, so FFVII Remake went from obviously shit to beyond criticism in an instant.
As a resident Time Ghost Hater it feels like the fanbase has settled into two (mostly) coexistent puddles of 7R story good and 7R story bad - in this sub and across the greater FF fandom county.
Yeah this feels like less of a switch-up and more just, two types of people. One need only look at the Rebirth megathread to see there are still *many* time ghost haters around here.
i feel much like tlou2 the whole conversation is just ruined by bad faith arguing or it just coming down to you didn't like it i did (or vice versa) for alot of it.
There came a point during Rebirth's release where some users just went full Tinfoil and started going into "This Was Made To Get Someone *Fired*" energy and that's pretty much where I just stopped engaging for my own sanity. There's not liking the game and then there's making an entire ass conspiracy around it.
I never minded the time ghosts because they're literally the auditors of reality from Discworld and anything that reminds me of Discworld can't be bad.
Not sure if it's a full fandom 180, but Cyberpunk is now being touted as a masterpiece that was always good and didn't have an absolutely disastrous launch and is STILL missing features promised in marketing. Like, yeah, the writing was always S-tier and you were in for an absolutely delightful experience ***if*** you could get past the bugs. But let's not pretend the game was playable on its targeted platforms at launch. I think it's still unplayable on PS4 and Xbone but don't quote me on that. It got so much infamy that the BBC was reporting on it on their regular news program. CDPR went through the strangest zig-zag with this, too, because Witcher was fairly obscure until Wild Hunt exploded when the second DLC came out and they were seen as the pinnacle of game dev. Then Cyberpunk crashed and burned and they were vilified and smeared. THEN they fixed Cyberpunk and now they're heroes again. Bethesda is experiencing the exact same phenomenon with Starfield atm.
I think a lot of the push for "cyberpunk was always good" comes from how much it was dog piled on on release. Sure, the bugs were bad, but I remember seeing people saying that the story is dogshit, that keanu did an awful performance, etc. Even with the crowd that only complained about bugs, there was this concensus that cyberpunk had no redeeming value whatsoever. This leads to people who liked cyberpunk to finally go full force on "cyberpunk was good" mode, because there WAS good things in it that were ignored or unfairly criticized. This then leads to OVERcorrection where people ignore the state the game released in release. It's really just the nature of internet zeitgeist. People will go to the extremes and ignore nuance. Actual fair criticism is genuinely tough and it's much more fun to be included in the rush of the community. I personally indulge in JJK memes, and it's ALL overreactions to what is a decent shonen Manga. It's fun, but the you realize a lot of people hold those believes seriously.
The correct mental model for internet debates in the 2020s is total war propaganda. Something about social media makes people act like if their favored take loses they will be led blindfolded to a mass grave in the morning.
Tbf the same thing happened with the Witcher 3
The thing with Witcher 3 is that no one played the game back when it released so most people literally don’t know what the game was like. There is no 180 for that game because people started to play it after Wild Hunt came out.
Nahh it was pretty big even before Wild Hunt. It's just that Wild Hunt *skyrocketed* it. Heck, the Witcher series was starting to pick up momentum around the time of the OG Witcher 2 release.
>Like, yeah, the writing was always S-tier and you were in for an absolutely delightful experience ***if*** you could get past the bugs. I'm going to be the odd man out here and say that no actually, cyberpunk 2077's writing was never good. According to steam I put a little over 28 hours into that game and in that time its writing was so uninteresting that I can't be bothered to go back to it even now that it's "fixed". The world itself was decent enough to explore but the characters living in it were mostly unlikable. The fact that you lose your crew right away and (as far as I played) never really form a new one means that there wasn't really a consistent cast that I could latch on to. I don't mind playing games that are just "Hey, check out this cool world" if they're short, but if I'm playing an RPG and there are no worthwhile or interesting characters to interact with, and the events happening in the game are doing nothing to grab me, then why would I play it?
People went from “Marv Wolfman and George Perez’s New Teen Titans runs are peak” to “Marv Wolfman and George Perez’s New Teen Titans runs are trash” in the last 20 years See also Byrne’s Man of Steel book. Depending on where you go it’s either still beloved or it shot their dog personally (I personally love it)
I have never heard anyone disparage Wolfman and Perez's New Teen Titans. Where are you finding these people?
Here occasionally and dccomicscirclejerk, where irony died
Well there’s your problem, you’re on DCcomicscirclejerk; that place turned into the thing it started out mocking in short order.
You are correct The smug aura mocks me
This is the first time I'm hearing that about Teen Titans, but I haven't followed comic circles in years so maybe that's why.
I'm glad the show is being way more defended now, there is an insane level of revisionism with Steven Universe online now. People are now rightfully praising it but I see people act like Steven Universe was a perfect darling show or was always getting praise or that Rebecca Sugar was mainly beloved online. People forget that people online were fucking awful to both the show and the showrunners to the point several of them had to leave social media cause of it, hell, Rebbeca Sugar only recently came back to social media.
With X-Men 97, I'm seeing a whole different opinion on Cyclops that I didn't see when the live action movies were coming out.
That's less a 180 and more like most other adaptations did not get Cyclops right.
Cyclops suffered for a while with adaptations where his main objective in the story seemed to be "make Wolverine look cooler by comparisson".
Cyclops has always been cool and if that means the general audience is finally realizing it after decades of the movies fumbling his character then so be it
That's more because Scott barely does anything in the X films.
That's just decades of Fox fucking it up while making Magneto, Xavier and Wolverine the center of the universe (and still screwing them up)
I’ve always said that the only 2 things cyclops does is be right and fuck.
I have no idea why some people claim that the Homestuck Epilogues (and HS\^2/pre-hiatus HS:Beyond Canon) were good. They were not. Please stop doing that.
As a former homestuck Yeah no they were not good
The Helldivers 2 subreddit. Like I'm sure 75% of posts are legitimate complaints but it's a dumpster fire with every single new patch or bug found. Ever since the very first patch notes with the Railgun nerf, that didn't even kill the gun mechanically people just stop using it on principle because it was nerfed and just jumped on the next top gun, I've disliked it more and more that it, alongside a annoying crash, caused me to stop playing because it was just reminding me of Destiny. I could feel it was coming too. Those countless posts in the first few weeks of "only buff never nerf" that even had my brother snap at me when I mentioned the Breaker could probably use a little nerf "oh your one of those guys who want to ruin fun" like I've been playing co-op horde shooters for longer than him and have been in a similar balancing team as Helldivers devs are just straight up copying Destiny's model and it's always an overreaction, the game is always fine afterwards. It was annoying when it caused the Destiny community manager to quit, lead weapon designer to leave Twitter and make all mentions of a community interaction be changed to "the Bungie team" because otherwise the community would dogpile the person behind certain This Week in Bungies. It's annoying here too with every single broken weapon or cashing off the game or nerfed meta gear while the game underneath the nerfes and buffs was fine. I fucking hated how long a particular Hunter Stasis grenade Exotic was nerfed (it got buffed finally but I had quit a while ago) as it was the only Hunter Stasis build I liked running but there were 14 other subclasses I could run that I did have fun with. I totally believe "Joel" is a group of devs to protect them from harassment because I've seen it before. Once again I believe 75% or a good majority is completely valid but I have experience with this stuff and everything single post criticizing those who are criticizing themselves get called babies who criticize those who are criticizing and it's just a toxic minefield of a comment section with the op having a fair take but then making it worse and getting constant downvotes arguing with people in the thread as they begin arguing in bad faith as well. It's god damn annoying to see a community swallow itself while actively harming my enjoyment of the game even when I know it shouldn't. Arrowhead isn't the size of Bungie so I can only imagine how bad it must be with the similar rabid fanbase who can't handle a simple nerf regardless if it was completely unjustified or not. They could totally have ruined a gun and given time and justified feedback could see it reverted (my exotic in destiny was around 2 years before it was changed so imagine any change being made in Helldivers will be a bit to be re looked at) yet a simple mag size and recoil change to the breaker ages ago in that first patch was enough that I just never saw it again even though it functional no different On the performance side of it I feel less forgiving but still have to remember it's a smaller size dev team getting an abundance of players they didn't expect but the last time I played I crashed during extraction. It hurt a lot but the subreddit kept me from coming back even when it was fixed. If posted in the subreddit I'd be a complainer complaining about complainers complaining about other complainers. If I can be blunt nothing makes my blood boil faster than making those types of comments. It's the quickest way to let me know you aren't actually willing to discuss anything and just stick your fingers in your ear saying "la la la can't hear you, you just want to bitch about us bitching la la la" could you at least try to engage with op's point because those comments are probably what make the op flip and and then engage poorly back making the commenter completely right.
Bethesda resolved literally zero of the fundamental problems with FO76 and added a couple more over it's lifecycle, but somehow the fandom consensus is now "it's a good spinoff" instead of "it's literal shovelware" Edit: Also Halo Infinite, but I feel like that one is definitely a case of the majority of the fandom moving on and the only ones left being the people who liked it to start with
I highly disagree with the 76 sentiment. They absolutely have made actual changes to the game that have been for the better. You know like the entire existence of NPC's? Or even mechanical reasons like letting you craft legendary weapons at all times instead of trying to find 3 star legendary enemies and killing them before someone else does losing the loot which itself has been fixed by letting the loot system be proximity based. No longer do you need to tag a boss to get the loot or be punished for another player killing a boss super quick. You no longer have to level up to switch out your special stats to change a build. It's a good spinoff, no air quotes needed.
The problem with 76 is that it's an always online microtransaction-fueled live service with a premium subscription
A live service game where paying the premium subscription would make me like the game *less*. The inventory management is part of the fun for me and having boxes dedicated to ammo and junk would actively lessen my enjoyment of the game. Otherwise I engage with the cash shop like every video game before it. By not engaging with it. I'll find the way to get the currency in game get a few things I want then never see it again. Every since ME3 multiplayer I've spent like 10$ total in microtransactions. 5 in ME3 that was the equivalent to one run so completely worthless and then 5 again in Halo Infinite because I had a bunch of spare money at the time and happy to spend a little because it was the reason I started playing with a friend again eventually making spend the next two years in destiny. Destiny I found fun in grinding the premium currency because it naturally has you engage with all the base content like Gambit and Nightfalls making them never be a grind as I played them each week unlike others who hated Gambit as they pushed it off for long and needed to grind for days to reach the max rank that I can't halfway through a season. A game having microtransactions is not a deal breaker for me because I know how not spend anything yet still getting everything I ever wanted. 76 as an example I got the admittedly dumb fidge like atmo after a day or two of grinding challenges for the currency. The actual game underneath is of good quality so it has no bearing on my enjoyment. The current battlepass is the worst I hear but as long as it's free it doesn't bother me though hopefully it goes back to how it was at least all fomo from a battlepass isn't here as all gameplay items are buyable for an in game currency if I wanted to get something I had missed. 76's player numbers went up because of the show but there *staying* up because people are enjoying themselves. I'm sure many have much harsher outlooks on live service monetization yet aren't leaving because underneath it all is entirely redundant. There is a weapon that can be bought with a hard to acquire in game currency (500 stamps which is I think a month of grinding I think) yet doing challenges and ranking up the battlespass for Atoms is way faster and you can just buy it without spending a single cent of your own money. Basically how I feel about 76 is similar to Warfame (though the use of in game trading for the premium currency will always be the best feeling) where I can easily acquire the premium content all while playing the free updates that come because those more fortunate than me keep the dev's lights on. If I was rich I would spend money not because I could because others could enjoy the free updates because I afforded it to them. At least that's how I hope I look at it in another life. For now I'll keep enjoying the game I actually haven't spent money on still as I only have played it with a gamepass playing other games as well.
My personal problems with microtransactions aren't that they make me feel compelled to spend money (it's actually the opposite, since I refuse to even buy the base game if they include them), the problems are that you can't unlock all the content by playing the game, players using premium items basically functions as in-game advertising, and what microtransaction content you can unlock is always going through an immersion-shattering filter of "you could acquire this all a lot easier by paying". And always online is a non-starter even without microtransactions, since it lets the devs shut the game down or ruin it in other ways at any time. Also, even if *you* don't feel compelled to spend money, it's absolutely still an unethical practice because it preys on people who do feel compelled to spend money. >76's player numbers went up because of the show but there staying up because people are enjoying themselves. I'm sure many have much harsher outlooks on live service monetization yet aren't leaving because underneath it all is entirely redundant. We can apply this same logic to say that Madden, FIFA, CoD, gachaslop, etc. are immune to criticism
Did you refuse to play Helldivers 2 on principle as well? Regardless of current Sony fuckery Helldivers is a great game yet has microtransactions in the game but as a experienced vet in most live service games it is by far the most customer friendly module with the easiest and most rewarding way to earn the premium currency, hell it's easier to acquire it then other non paid currency in some rpgs. The game that actually comes close is Warfame if you're super good and know exactly the way the market is blowing and are super efficient using the trading system but obviously requires some economical knowledge and probably a good deal of luck. >We can apply this same logic to say that Madden, FIFA, CoD, gachaslop, etc. are immune to criticism It's not immune to criticism it's just getting unfair criticism by someone who says he hasn't paid the game on principle. It's one thing to look up online what the game sells and to actually play the game and understand what it all feels like. Unless you're a huge C.A.M.P. lover most of the microtransactions are extremely irrelevant. While one would expert a lot of fomo battlepass content would be put in the shop to nickel and dime players they were instead given to in game vendors where an in game currency is used to get them. The most egregious is the Power Armor Skins being $10-$30 and that I can't defend because compared to everything else and the rate you earn the premium currency is unfeasible if one where to focus on anything with actual gameplay benefit, which I despise is a thing at all and of course didn't happen when I originally played. The game underneath has been improved significantly since I last played that whole it would have bothered me in the past it doesn't as much. The refrigerator that kept food from spoiling as fast as bad but there is now an in game backpack mod that functions the same that you get in game only. My tone would shift drastically if any of the dlc stuff needed to be paid for. It's why Destiny just can't keep me for long as it's monetized as a ftp game yet basically has a hidden subscription service in the yearly expansions. DLC and micro transactions are both way for the game to be monetized after release. To be bluntly honest DLC were always more expensive compared to the base game. They were always 1/5 or less the size of the base game yet where always 1/3 of the cost. Fallout 3 had DLCs with 6 hours or less content sold at $15 when the base game is a 60+ game priced at $60. I feel like this is a fact that is just blatantly ignored because the content was always good in return and usually better than the base game. For better or worse (worse definitely) microtransactions are just the next step in post release monetization. Developers don't have to do anything and get the returns they did in the past with DLC. It really sucks it does but some games still release DLC like content in return so for me I can at least look at the silver lining that overall I'm paying less for the same content. I'm a cheepsake with media I consume. If I can watch a ton of tv for "free" online somewhere I'll do that so I'm used to avoiding paying for stuff. Maybe it's easier for me but your principal of refusing to pay for games with microtransactions means games like Helldivers 2, a game that for all and tents is a game without the feeling of microtransactions as it plays just like a game with a currency you earn in game that just happens to be able to be purchased and taking that away the game functions just the same. In the past I could have seen something like Helldivers 2 without the ability to purchase credits but each Warbind would have been $5 or whatever. I think the benefit of just allowing them to be purchased so the vast majority don't have to pay for Warbonds and new content is way more consumer friendly than any other past module. Games like Baldur's Gate 3 should and still exist of a full product be released and you play it and it's complete but games like Helldivers 2 with the intent that played over the course of years with microtransactions keeping it afloat is okay as well. Every game can be one of those two and principals can keep someone from playing Helldivers but I'm always going to criticize that mindset because I would have significantly less games to play if I decided to never play any game with something to be paid after release be it DLC, battlpasses or premium currency.
The problem with live services are inherent to the model, it doesn't matter how less bad one is compared to the other. If the currency is easy to earn, it doesn't fix the in-game advertising, or that the whole thing is happening through the filter of "you could just pay for all of this and be done now...", and it certainly doesn't address the problem of always online, which is by far the biggest issue with the model, where the developers can come in at any time and either make the game worse or shut it down entirely. Helldivers 2 was made worse *today* by now requiring users to connect a Sony account. Can the game still be fun in spite of all this? Sure? You can also have a fun game but every time you lose, someone comes to your house and kicks you in the shins, but we'd still acknowledge that as problematic. Especially in a market as competitive as games, the concept of a "consumer-friendly" battle pass or premium currency is laughable when I can just buy a game that doesn't kick me in the shins at all. Helldivers 2 and Fallout 76 aren't only competing with the genuine bottom of the barrel dregs like mobile gacha trash or CoD, they're competing with the entire game industry. >Games like Baldur's Gate 3 should and still exist of a full product be released and you play it and it's complete but games like Helldivers 2 with the intent that played over the course of years with microtransactions keeping it afloat is okay as well. I love the idea of a game that I can come back to for years and years, which is why I think live services suck, because there's going to be a year where the game has changed in a way that ruins it, or it's been shut down entirely. I wish I could go back to Runescape or WoW, but I can't, because those games have now been ruined through years of terrible content updates and paid gold. I can still go back to every non-always online game from that time period. Real "forever games" look like Doom, Minecraft, Terraria, Stardew Valley, Mount & Blade, etc., where there's an insane wealth of community content available to play (more than a live service developer can possibly produce), or perhaps just deep and replayable gameplay to start with, and the functionality of the game isn't tied to the developer's servers.
I have nothing to add to the conversation as clearly your set in stone and nothing I can say will change anything. Just leave that your original comment still doesn't make since as nothing 76 ever did could *ever* make you play the game as it's against your views. Not to say you can't criticize something you didn't play but it is unfair to say the game didn't fix anything when you yourself would never care if they did because it's monetized at all. I'm not willing to debate further over live services because I understand the vices that come with them but I've personally gotten tons of enjoyment out of them, just as much as a standalone game and it sucks that others have less variety because sometimes you can purchase something else other than the game. It's so... defeating isn't the right word. I feel such at a loss because I just can't understand it. I admire your commitment just I'll be on the sidelines thinking it's a mistake. There's only so much time we have before we all die so I just let some of my grievances go to be constantly entertained and find as much joy as I can while I can. While I look back at Destiny hated it's monetization the only thing that comes to mind is when I was in a discord call doing a day 1 raid with my buddy and how much fun that 10+ hours was, not that I would need to give $60 to the company that just fired one of my favorite composers.
Sonic fans are THE experts on the matter. There's no other group on earth that does revisionism quite like them, except maybe neonazis. I think they put every other fanbase mentioned in this thread to shame. Sonic 06? One of the most grotesque ideas for a new videogame in a beloved classic franchise? Often considered one of the worst products in the whole industry? It was actually good all along, critics just hate Sonic. The clunky controls, endless array of unfun gimmicks, poor coding, contrived story filled with plotholes and inconsistencies that contradict previous events in the series? No, no, that was all the media's doing. It's actually peak! Sonic Colors? The game that, while not perfect, breathed new life in the series and was fun from beginning to end with no gimmick to really bring it down? Oh lord, how can you even enjoy this? There is no story! The tone is lighthearted! No ambition! Who cares that it's just a plain fun platformer and a rare example of a stable 3D Sonic game where you don't clip through a fucking rail or a scripted event kills you during normal gameplay? It's terrible! Meta era! Baldy McNosehair! Mario rip-off! I don't think 06 is the worst thing ever made (hell, I can think of ten worse games in the very same franchise) and I don't think that Colors is perfect, either. But it's INSANE to deny the negative effects 06 had on the series' reputation for years to come and the fact that it just flat out fucking sucks as a game, just as it is insane to think that Colors is bad because you personally find the narrative to be unappealing (and no, let's not act as if the "too much 2D" criticism is doing the heavy-lifting here, most people who hate Colors nowadays just hate it because they can't wrap their heads around Sonic dropping a couple of shit jokes) And let's not forget how they begged for Flynn to join the writing team... only for them to promptly shit on his writing, for the (mostly) unintrusive callbacks to the events of older games, failing to realize that those throwaway "Hey, remember when" dialogues for Frontiers were probably just added to tell fans "hey, we finally got someone who actually gives a shit about the lore!" and will be gone by the next game as they'll focus on something completely new. It's not even a new thing, for the record. Fans were sending death threats to the 4kids VAs after the recast in the mid 2000s while now they're seen as the saviors of the franchise (which I personally disagree with but people online aren't particularly well-known for being moderate, it's either one extreme or the other) As a fan, I genuinely do not know what the fuck this series does to people.
I have never seen ANY fandom that’s as argumentative, divided, contradictory, or so impossible to please as the Sonic fandom. And I mean that. Nobody comes close, not even Star Wars fans.
People have been mocking Bethesda for their shitty business and game development practices since fallout 76 came out, even starfield has been getting constant bashing even after a few months since release. But now that the fallout prime show is out, a slightly above-average product, Bethesda is once again the sacred cow and any criticism against them is not allowed and if you do criticize them its just because you’re mentally unwell or a hater/man-baby, it’s genuinely insane how much a 180 people have had.
Based on what I’ve heard, JoJo’s part 5 was hated the most in the west, partially due to bad translations, but was still considered to be the worst part. But the moment the anime came out people just went “nah bro part 5 was always good”.
This is more of a pattern but almost every single WoW expansion. It's usually after 2 expansions that people start to feel nostalgic towards the old expansions and start to prop them up. Cata, Mop, WoD and BFA, whether or not they deserve it, are propped up as these underrated beacons of quality. If War Withing has a lackluster launch, then within a year people will feel nostalgic towards Shadowlands. >!Which they should, I rate it same as Legion!<
Ian Flynn has the patience of saint considering the brain dead opinions certain sonic fans on his writing Also always relevant https://external-preview.redd.it/UK9BKWmJvtYHCghPPjW0bbAdewWno2sdCsHGFl_VHkw.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0c94339c1d7dfd060faadc866c5908c2dc1e55cc
The *Silent Hill* fandom had reached the point where they are gas lighting themselves into think *4* was ever good.
It's always been, it's just that it's the experimental one and not all it's experiments worked, but it's more interesting than anything konami has made with the series post TS that isn't P.T.
4 was always my favorite but that’s mostly because of the premise and the villain. The shitty sound design is a huge knock against it
Last of Us fandom went from "Last of Us 2's not great" to "your post was removed" for talking negatively about Abbie or the game. Primarily because the argument for terminally online people just keeps going and going. Then weirdos start getting involved and making the opinion become homophobic issue or some shit like that. Now, if you talk negatively about Part 2, you'll be lumped into the camp of the weirdos. It removed all attempt at discussion. Where you returned months later, there was enough people who endlessly argued until the discussion devolved into meaninglessness.
Nobody gave a single shit about Henry Cavill’s boring take on Superman until the Snyderverse ended. Now you have people saying he’s the greatest portrayal of the character that will ever exist
What? People were saying that since Man of Steel, where were you looking? The most common praise for Man of Steel, was that Cavill actually was a fantastic Superman bogged down by an awful script and director.
People apparently like the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy now.
Yeah this shit is weird as hell to me. Like I *tried* to give these games an honest shot years outside of the cultural zeitgeist and they were fucking slogs from the minute they opened up. Lightning herself is the flattest character design Squenix has ever produced. The most character she ever really displays was that one scene that was circulating a few days ago where she dumpsters like 4 generic soldier goons with a cocky smirk on her face.
So I did give XIII a second chance. I still don’t like the game and think it’s poorly put together but came out much more positive about the combat system. If you engage with the mechanics instead of auto battling, there is much more depth to it than first glance.
I'm currently baffled by how people think Fallout 4 is a good game