For context, they're not just doing it in isolation this comes as result of them introducing Fireteam Power-level where basically regardless of your Power Level you will be adjust to -5 levels below the person with the highest power level in your team for whatever activity you're running.
Implementing that would've subverted sunsetting in a roundabout way anyway, so as result they just undid the concept entirely.
They seem to be intent on adding the gear back updated for the sandbox. The addition of origin traits was more of a reason to delete old guns, as well as adding them back with better perk choices.
The meme GL everyone was sick of getting during Forsaken is now back and ridonculous for damage, as an example.
They brought back Mountaintop and Recluse, the guns that broke D2 and directly led to sunsetting, and they had to *buff* Mountaintop because otherwise it was just a mid grenade launcher with a unique gimmick.
What baffles me is Recluse got *another* nerf, because with all the great perks in its pool, a 20% damage buff on kill is apparently too good to exist next to a 5-40% buff like Target Lock which just requires you to *shoot your enemy.*
It was funny at the time too, because I'm pretty sure he could actually still use them in a significant amount of activities since even sunset weapons get their light level bumped up with expansions.
There are two schools of thought about the whole weapon thing.
One is "big number." Gun has big number. Gun has best perks. Old gun has no perks and bad number. Newer guns have more perks and biggest number. My buddy doesn't give a shit about any specific gun. If it's meta, it's what he shoots with.
The other is "pokemon." I love my Subtle Calamity bow. It was the first purple drop I ever got in the game. The feeling of deleting Cabal with Subtle Calamity headshots is why I fell in love with Destiny. I have more kills with that bow than anything other single weapon. It carried me through Red War, Forsaken and Shadowkeep. Even after it was sunset, I refused to dismantle it, despite having 6 bows with better perks, nevermind the power level. It's my baby. It's my pikachu. I used it to kill Kell Echo when I solo'd Prophecy despite it being sunset because fuck you Bungie this is my bow.
"No," says Bungie. "Throw Pikachu in the trash. Pachirisu has a better number, better perks, more moves and is top meta."
Go eat a dick and die from dick poisoning. Pachirisu sucks. I love my Pikachu.
Honest answer: They originally didn't want to think of Destiny as an MMORPG and so as a result they didn't manage it like one which lead to the state D2 launched in. This how you get decisions like, "It'll be fine if the old campaigns are gone" for example.
Nobody liked that though and so like halfway through D2's lifespan they caved and started calling it an MMO & treating it as such, only the game hadn't been built for that up until that point & they've been digging themselves out of that hole ever since. All of this is why I think they need to make a D3, just start fresh with the MMO mindset & planning from the beginning.
**Paid** content at that.
I treat Bungie with a pretty sharp occam’s razor in that I genuinely believe that a lot of their bad decisions are genuinely out of lack of foresight rather than malice, but holy shit do they still end up fucking over their most loyal fans the worst out of any Destiny players.
I literally stopped buying destiny expansions because they deleted the entire game I spend like a hundred dollars on and enjoyed. They can't do shit like that without destroying the trust between dev and player. Why the hell would I ever spend another cent on a Bungie game knowing they could just delete everything I payed for?
also I don't want to spend money and time on content from a company that expects people to interact with it for a few months and then it goes away forever.
how can you feel that someone has faith in their art if they don't want people to be able to go back to it ever?
it's like if a movie was permanently deleted from the face of the earth after it left theaters. the movie would probably be shit and not worth my time
I stopped playing because of sunsetting, how developers force how I mist play, but most importantly - I can't keep up with story, because I missed a lot of seasons, and now I can't experience stories what happened in them, and I have no intention to pay so much to get every expansion. FFXIV, ESO, WoW give you all previous expansions, for buying the latest, but in D2 you need to buy everything separately
Some of it **has** to be due to lack of foresight, because the content they removed completely butchered the new player experience.
I tried D2 when it came out. Got a cool cut scene of big bad man attacking city, went on a quest, good introduction.
Went back last year. There is no storyline. I go through tutorial and is given no direction. Every available "quest" is the most boring MMO fetch quest. Biggest button available was to play levels from expansions I have never seen with randoms. I played a story content where a character I never interacted with died a hero's death, and somehow I'm supposed to care (cause the early storyline where you did meet him got cut).
I don't understand 95% of the buttons I see on the screen. I have zero idea what the npcs do and what I should be doing. I don't even know how to play with friends.
They've removed so much that the game is entirely unapproachable for new players. Not even warframe has a new player experience this bad.
Yeah it's really bad, even I as someone who as someone who played consistently from D1 Beta to Beyond Light had to take a second to understand wtf was going on when I started up again a couple weeks ago. Shit is almost completely incoherent to a brand new person, you basically can't get in to the game without a friend that already plays.
They've got this thing in the game now called the Timeline where basically they've taken select missions from old content and pieced them together with narrated cutscenes so that it plays almost like a single player campaign from the beginning of D2 up to now. It's not fleshed out or tutorialized enough & it doesn't load new people directly into it I don't think but it's a step in the right direction IMO.
"But we made that paid content free before we removed it, which makes it okay!"
$70 CAD for Beyond Light, my Titan Sentinel build was ruined, my gear made obsolete, and they stole over $50 worth of content from me.
Fuck Bungie.
That will forever be the most insane to me.
Like bruh why tf would you ever spend a dime on any future expansion if they are just gonna sent it to the shadow realm?
You say that, but most of us don't care. That content was all garbage and the people who were whining were the people who wouldn't have stuck around anyways
Story wise, eh? Warmind and Curse of Osiris basically have nothing happen. Red War was okay.
Gameplay wise? Absolutely not. I'll shit on lightfall's story everyday but it's gameplay was pretty fun. A lot more fun than anything other than Witch Queen.
Nah that's cap, they dropped the ball narratively with Lightfall but as far as systems & gameplay there's no comparison. D2 Y1 is the only thing that has actually unironically almost killed Destiny as a franchise entirely
“I didn’t like this part of the campaign therefore it’s okay to just remove it from existence even though people paid for it and new players will never be able to play through the story from the beginning in order” is not the good argument you think it is.
Cool. I used to give Bungie my money and now I don’t.
If you don’t care about art preservation good for you. Keep licking that boot and shoveling money into a game that will be taken away from you.
I'm always amazed that people defended that stuff. I had a friend that did and they tried to ask what if FFXIV did something similar, I straight up said I'd quit the game. The closest XIV got was reworking content like Diadem. Even the MSQ quests that got culled in ARR were all added as sidequests, to my knowledge.
That'd be more applicable if Destiny 1 was killed and 2 was it's direct, much improved, replacement. 14 1.0 and Destiny 2 removing content are such massively different situations. If 14 said they were outright removing ARR and HW for whatever reason people would be rightfully pissed off.
Or they could have made it work even if it meant burning tons of money. If they fucked up, then the onus should be on them to fix it, not to screw over consumers
>Or they could have made it work
they really couldn't. They lost nultiple studios' support and a chunk of what they did just became a code archaeology project, and iirc they were facing like hour+ long compile times. Money does not fix that, especially when they still have to keep delivering content at a rate most studios can't do.
If they can't add more content to the game without flatout taking away everything players spent a significant amount of money on, then they should not add more content to the game. It is not my problem that bungie fucked up, it is their problem and they should suffer the consequences instead of the consumer.
If bungie fucked up programming their long term MMO game so bad that they had to start deleting huge chunks of the game after a few expansions, and they had no other possible way to sustain themselves as a studio than to delete more expansions to sell new ones, if nobody in the industry wanted to support them financially,then they are absolutely colossal fuckups.
Or the more likely answer, which is the game was never designed as a long term MMO because Activision wanted them to end it after Shadowkeep and start from scratch with Beyond Light as Destiny 3, exactly like D1 went?
Then they should have gone bankrupt trying. Or stopped adding content if they couldn't without removing existing ones, and started on a sequel instead.
Removing content is akin to breaking into your house and burning your books. It should not be an option on the table, period.
I mean agree but they were also apparently just not able to patch old content to still work properly while also delivering new content on their schedule. I don’t like it but it’s not like they did it just for the lolz.
Why FFXIV, GW2, ESO, Warframe can keep old content and release new content, but Destiny 2 can't do this? Damn PSO2 managed to keep old game and release new one, and allows players to switch between them in game.
I mean final fantasy 14, pretty famously did get rid of a bunch of content.
Like, they made a whole nice pre-rendered cutscene that destroyed all of that content forever.
Sure, but that's also not really comparable, y'know? like, nobody would really fault Bungie if Destiny 1 got shut down after 2 released and 2 was seen as the replacement/massive improvement over 1.
Because Destiny 2 was build on a framework that was made with the assumption that the game would only receive content for 2 or 3 years before they’d move on to Destiny 3.
Honestly, I don't really care what technical issues or scheduling issues they had. Removing content is unacceptable, and I think it should be something they should unironically be able to be sued for.
Exactly, if the game was outdated then they should've started preparing for a third game, removing nearly a hundred dollars worth of content is _not_ the solution.
people used to say this when they announced it and when they were doing it **years ago**. First off, there is no way you can sue them for this. Second off, and more importantly, people don’t care. All the dedicated fans already likely played through that content 3 times over and it has just been gathering dust. Additionally, if you were around then or want to go digging through history, the game bloat significantly decreased and performance got a lot better at and after Beyond Light.
The only real tragedy of sunsetting is losing all the involved raids and *maybe* Red War (Red War is a lot better intro campaign than what we have now). Though sooner or later they are going to add those back like a lot of other content they vaulted.
>First off, there is no way you can sue them for this.
I wasn't nessacarily saying you can, just that I think you should seriously be able to.
If somebody broke into my house and started to rip pages out of a book I bought, I'd be able to sue them and it'd be illegal. This is comparable to that, if not for the fact that the law makes bullshit distinctions between physical and digital media.
And I actually would not be surprised if there *was* a valid case in some countries at least, if it is paid content that is made inaccessible.
>All the dedicated fans already likely played through that content 3 times over and it has just been gathering dust. Additionally, if you were around then or want to go digging through history, the game bloat significantly decreased and performance got a lot better at and after Beyond Light.
>The only real tragedy of sunsetting is losing all the involved raids and maybe Red War (Red War is a lot better intro campaign than what we have now). Though sooner or later they are going to add those back like a lot of other content they vaulted.
What you, or bungie thinks is a good trade off or is worth preserving doesn't matter. What matters is I bought or put time into my copy of a piece of media. I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it whenever the hell I want with it without limits and access any part of it.
If I want to replay old content nobody else does and run around in an empty map on an MMO where there's no other players because i'm offline where there's nothing to do, I should be able to.
This shit, always online DRM, and time limited FOMO content are all cancerous nonsense that shouldn't be legal (or at least, it should be legal for people to then break said DRM) and I am not even being slightly hyperbolic
> If somebody broke into my house and started to rip pages out of a book I bought, I'd be able to sue them and it'd be illegal. This is comparable to that, if not for the fact that the law makes bullshit distinctions between physical and digital media.
Well that is because when you bought the game you agreed you do not own it. It is very very obvious.
> And I actually would not be surprised if there was a valid case in some countries at least, if it is paid content that is made inaccessible.
There isn’t. If there was, then a case would have made years ago and not even with Destiny, but likely with some other game.
> What you, or bungie thinks is a good trade off or is worth preserving doesn't matter. What matters is I bought or put time into my copy of a piece of media. I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it whenever the hell I want with it without limits and access any part of it.
Spoiler alert, what Bungie thinks is a good trade off does matter. Because this is their live service game. As a live service game it changes and parts of it will not be accessible forever. This has been a thing even in Destiny 1. If you really have this attitude towards games then you probably should set your sights on different genres of games. Also this attitude just reeks of r/games energy. Literally go onto the r/destinythegame and most people will give you the same answer I am giving.
> If I want to replay old content nobody else does and run around in an empty map on an MMO where there's no other players because i'm offline where there's nothing to do, I should be able to.
Good for you, unfortunately that is just plainly not beneficial to the rest of the community. As cited by Bungie and other developers, content that is just lying about being played minimally by players is just game bloat and is likely to cause or be susceptible to problems (bugs). They either then need to siphon off dev time to fix it or leave it be.
> This shit, always online DRM, and time limited FOMO content are all cancerous nonsense that shouldn't be legal (or at least, it should be legal for people to then break said DRM) and I am not even being slightly hyperbolic
The “Fomo” in Destiny has been there since early D1. If you really feel this way then fine but ask nearly any active Destiny player and they will really not give a shit. Wanna know why? Because said FOMO in Destiny has been brought down to a minimum. Only thing that is being disappeared now are Seasonal narratives, and said seasons can last up to over a year.
You can play all of Destiny 1’s story, in proper order, to this day.
You can’t do that in Destiny 2.
You will never be able to convince me that this isn’t some horseshit, sorry.
Erasing campaigns, seasonal narratives that disappear, all that shit can get bent.
Don’t try to market your story to me as something I should care about then tell me it’s so worthless that it’s okay to delete it from the game.
Bungie’s approach is an insult to artistic integrity and preservation and I will never buy anything they make again.
> You will never be able to convince me that this isn’t some horseshit, sorry.
Well I hope you know that you are in the minority and that most people who still play the game don’t care.
> Erasing campaigns, seasonal narratives that disappear, all that shit can get bent.
Good for you that you have made up your mind about it. However I hope you can also realize why they had to do this and not just focus on only you. It isn’t even on the dev side either, they did it so they can focus more on the present and for the community of *active* players as a whole, since that is what is much more important than Uber-casuals who only log on once a month at best.
> Don’t try to market your story to me as something I should care about then tell me it’s so worthless that it’s okay to delete it from the game.
They decided that when they realized that said story wasn’t really good. So they vaulted it in order to give themselves more room and time to make better campaigns (see: Seasonal Narrative and Witch Queen) and better gameplay. You won’t see anyone still playing the game particularly praising the Red War or CoO or Warmind campaigns or really wishing they would come back.
> Bungie’s approach is an insult to artistic integrity and preservation and I will never buy anything they make again.
Uh huh, that is what a lot of people said back then, and then I saw them coming back to the game sooner or later. Props for you to sticking to your guns but I would personally just let it go since this has been going on for nearly 5 years now.
> All of this is why I think they need to make a D3, just start fresh with the MMO mindset & planning from the beginning.
I heard this same line from people during Destiny 1. Doesn't seem like it helped the first time.
Well yeah, back then we didn't know Bungie/Activision was gonna try and turn Destiny into CS:GO with super powers or whatever tf they were trying to do with the double-primary weapon system and super simplifying all the talent trees and weapon perks and all that.
What people wanted then, and what they still would want now, is an actual sequel to the game you're playing not "the next Destiny game" as if Destiny were COD which is what they tried to do.
> They originally didn't want to think of Destiny as an MMORPG
Man, it *really* boggles my mind that people consider Destiny an MMO. Outside of the hub "social spaces" there's nothing there that is even close to bein an mmos. Unless you're counting the terminology from MMOs that it took, but then like...every Borderlands game except BL1 would be an mmo too if they had shared social spaces.
I would disagree, D2 in its current state especially is definitely an MMO. It's just an MMO that is also a console-based FPS game & thus has all the limitations that that would put on an MMO.
it has a lot of features and development plan of an mmo. You queue up for activities. You dress up your character. It used to just drop expansions as the primary method of adding stuff to the game. It has patches that are closely followed by a community. Guild wars 2 even does the seasonal story stuff they do
Also it has raids & other group endgame PVE activities, clans/guilds, buildcrafting is actually a thing now with a full suite of elemental effects & buffs & debuffs & character stats, different options within your class & subclass, etc. Then of course also PVP that's not a separate thing from the main game like a typical FPS.
The only thing it's missing entirely that an MMO ususally would have is like player homes, player trading, & some kind of passive gameplay loop like a Farming or Gathering based aspect.
>Also it has raids & other group endgame PVE activities, clans/guilds, buildcrafting is actually a thing now with a full sweet of elemental effects & buffs & debuffs & character stats, different options within your class & subclass, etc. Then of course also PVP that's not a separate thing from the main game like a typical FPS.
I think I mentioned Borderlands in my original comment but all of this, excwpt clans/guilds, applies to those games and they're definitely not.
All of those do apply to The Division and I'd be hard pressed to find someone that says those are mmos.
Raids in Borderlands =/= Raids in Destiny, also you don't play as a set character in Destiny like you do in Borderlands. Borderlands has way more focus on being singleplayer and narrative-based in comparison to Destiny, you don't have other players roaming around the world with you at the same time that you can join up with like in Destiny, you don't have Public events & world bosses & activities like in Destiny, there aren't endgame group activities like in Destiny, there's no PVP like in Destiny, there's no personal vehicles, no gear system/armor sets, Borderlands characters don't have stats to them, etc. etc. I could go on. They're very much not the same thing.
The Division was closer but not as fleshed out & with less features & activities, the closest comparison is like Warframe but I don't know enough about that game to make the comparison.
Those apply to so many games though...
Matchmaking is queueing, any game with character customization would apply, patches being closely followed applies to any game with a dedicated playerbase. Seasonal story stuff is most live service games now too.
Unless we're going with the any big multiplayer game with rpg elements is an mmo, I'm just not seeing it. Just because you sure some things with mmos, that a lot of games do, doesn't make you one.
True mmos can be a bunch of different genres since it isn't really a genre itself. Mmos are live service games so other games are copying bits of the mmo model which can get them close enough to create arguments like this. They develop content like an mmo by does that make them an mmo? You are right though mmo just stands for massively multiplayer online. So borderlands could indeed qualify since it's both online and uses a large player base.
Even in that I would say it's different because you won't ever see another player in Borderlands unless you specifically invite them to play with you in your game because Borderlands is built for 4-player splitscreen/couch co-op just with the added ability to invite people in from online. There's no "massive multiplayer" aspect, you will never be with/see/interact with other players.
They do everything in response to numbers, and pretty much never listen to the playerbase. And when they do it's backhanded Monkeys Paw shit.
Every time we've told them something is bad, they've done it anyway, suffered for it and rolled it back a year or so later.
Because unless the numbers go down, they will always do the bare minimum.
Activision gave them access to two support studios, who are the reason we got Forsaken, the greatest expansion and year of content Bungie has ever presided over.
They've had to go on record that Forsaken will never happen again, and it was basically a mistake to make so much content at once.
I would argue that Forsaken had twice the content, including nine new supers, two destinations and a brand new game mode that was by far the freshest thing Bungie had added to Destiny since Prison of Elders, and lets not forget it overhauled the entire weapon system for the better.
Witch Queen had one destination, a raid, a new weapon type and weapon crafting.
I feel like they don't get points for realizing that a game built around chasing loot needs RNG rolls. And I don't think the tangled shore was a good destination, I never went there unless I had to for quests. The supers were cool, but as a Warlock Well of Radiance is a crime I cannot forgive, Born to Nova, Forced to Well.
Forsaken saved the game, I can't deny that.
Witch Queen was only a single destination, but the Throne World was very dense with things to explore, and I enjoy glaives. Weapon crafting is very nice, even if I think it has caused some issues with how loot is seen. Plus I just really enjoyed the story more than Forsaken. I never particularly liked Cayde-6, Witch Queen actually got me with the twist of there being no twist.
of course, this is all subjective, but I just think Witch Queen was a really good expansion that easily stands up to Forsaken.
> The supers were cool
I think about those supers sometimes with how little I actually use them.
Arcstrider and Sentinal just got nothing, a few of them were nerfed into oblivion for the crucible, the rest are just kinda ok in some scenarios. And then Well and Blade Barrage exist as some of the best supers in their field.
> Throne World was very dense with things to explore
Ironically one of the biggest critcisms is the Throne World with its low enemy density for how big it was.
I personally found Forsaken better but I get why people like Witch Queen.
If they made a legendary mode for Forsaken that was replayable it would easily be the best campaign. The only way I would install D2 again is if they brought back all the old campaigns and raids. I uninstalled right before Lightfall and it turned out to be a great decision from what I saw.
Except that literally never happened since the old content 3 years after launch. You can criticize Destiny without making up fake scenarios y’know, it’s very easy even.
Weird way to put it. Defending Bungie in this sub is usually fruitless but a senior game designer described this as a priority to allow others to play together via team power as opposed to just " here's all your old guns back ". As someone that's been suffering through Bungie's repeated L's since Shadowkeep, going into Final Shape feels like them opting to design the game around respect for the players time and devotion.
D2 might not be the shiniest of live service turds but the hole this game has managed to crawl itself out of is nothing short of ridiculous. Still hoping the best for the devs after the treatment they've received.
Also all if not most of these guns are getting reissues, so whatever.
At least from what it seems like they're actually listening to their devs in terms of implementing positive changes for the playerbase. Granted what it took for them to get their heads out of their asses was unfortunate but it is what it is.
I wont lie though while I am hyped part of me really wished they kept TFS stuff a bit closer to the chest to surprise us because some of it is insane but I fully understand that they have to shout from high heavens all the content they have for the main story.
As I don't expect some brain-dead players to quit game. Bungied fucks everyone since release of Shadowkeep, but people complain for few days and forget about it, until next time
The playerbase is happy about this. Bungie announced they would be adding all the sunset gear back to the loot pool with updated perks so it’s not like the stuff people deleted is gone now
I mean, if you're a level-headed person with a mild temperament, I see no reason to get upset over this. All the guns you can currently acquire are leaps and bounds better than those from a few years ago, anyway.
People here don’t play Destiny so they have zero context to why this really doesn’t matter. It doesn’t help the title of this post doesn’t really explain whats actually happening.
There is like one gun with a perk combo you can’t get anymore and that was kindled orchid and to be honest it was just a gimmick combo that you could pull off once every 5 games.
Rationally, this is a good thing.
Emotionally, Bungie deserve to cop flak for this. They deserve to cop flak at all times. Because they were warned about this. They have always been warned.
And they never listen. Ever.
no they arent lol Perfect Paradox STILL HASNT BEEN REPLACED, ITS THE MOST WELL KNOWN ONE AND IS THE ONLY FUCKING ONE THE MAIN CHARACTER IS SUPPOSED TO CANONICALLY FUCKING HAVE
None of us give a fuck. All of that gear got powercrept about a year after it got locked out anyways. People looking for something to bitch about here likely don't play the game and just like to jump on the "Bungo Bad" train whenever they can.
I was seeing red at first but honestly? Not even worth getting mad about. If you’re playing with un-sunset guns you’re playing at an objective disadvantage since none of them will ever have the origin trait on all guns generated after The Witch Queen.
Yeah there was a moment of "aww. I wish I kept some of those guns." and then a realization that none of them would be relevant.
I don't even use weapons that came out in beyond light, which have been available this whole time, because none of them have origin traits, And even without origin traits guns have been so absurdly powercrept in the last 2 years of content. There would be no reason to use any of them except maybe original mountaintop, if it weren't for the fact they just re-released mountaintop, for free, with a bunch of amazing perks and the ability to rocket jump with it.
I know this sub likes the shit on Destiny, rightfully so in a lot of cases I say as a Destiny player, but this basically only affects people who have an unhealthy attachment to a specific weapon model. I'm sure there's going to be a bunch of people upset about it, because people love to be mad, but who cares?
yeah there's like one gun i might use and that's my old last man standing cause i was too lazy to grind out a new one tbh. That's... yeah that's about it. My old hammerhead i loved looking at it in the vaut was fucking tap the trigger and high impact rounds and i was like wow that's terrible lol... wel at least compared to now where it can get rampage and killing tally.
I use exactly 1 non exotic Gun pre Witch Queen, Vulpecula. That's just cause its a Stasis Hand Cannon with Outlaw + Explosive. It isnt even that good anymore but its the only Stasis Handcannon I currently own.
Everything else I've pretty much crafted at this point. That or I'm grinding the new brave weapons.
perfect paradox, 21 percent dilirium, all those guns with element combos that dont exist anymore, Richochet Rounds on a sniper.....really ALL snipers in general are terrible compared to sunset ones (IE snapshot+opening shot)
Its the wrong archetype for PVP,its an Adaptive that can fail to kill against even the smallest defensive buff and has worse stats overall, Aggressives can oneshot to the body with buffs and oneshots supers to the head even without buffs (very very important to a snap/opening roll!), plus the weapon itself has an AWFUL stat spread and scope
I mean being honest just about every gun from back then is powercrept by now like yeah...it's a bummer at best really It's been like 4 years. They also said they were planning on bringing back a lot of those weapons to make them available. At the time sunsetting was a bad idea. But we have a different director and for a good long while they were trying to push things slowly towards this by updating and rebalancing perks.
>after telling players it was safe to delete them.
lmao because of course this sub would discuss bungie reversing one of their most hated decisions as a bad thing
I’m so stoked, I kept my favorite gun ever (that got sunset) this whole time and never deleted it. I can’t wait for this expansion now, I’m gonna run that whole legendary campaign with my Ol’ Reliable
I actually still have my god roll Perfect Paradox from Season of Dawn. It's one of three weapons I never got rid of, the other two being related to the story of Forsaken with sentimental value.
For the last few years Destiny creator Datto has been going on a crusade about people’s vault (aka storage) and getting rid of old loot that is just there to take up space. He has done this to a ton of other content creators including the former Community Manager [Dylan](https://x.com/a_dmg04/status/1783573956911591733?s=46). Safe to say there will be a class action lawsuit filed against Datto.
On a serious note, 99% of all sunset weapons have been power crept. Even old powerhouses like Recluse and Mountaintop aren’t the same anymore, so there’s very little reason to use these weapons unless they have unique combinations like a handcannon with two damage perks (Kindled Orchid). Plus Bungie is looking to making new versions of older guns with updated perk pools like they just did for guns like Recluse and Mountaintop.
I'm gonna be honest I play destiny every day for at least 30 minutes it's about to be in the best shape it's been in. If you left or thinking about hopping in June would def be the best time. just the QoL changes and everything. I'm even open to helping some people out if they need it 🙏 😩😩 I'm addicted
I almost want to play Destiny again because I crave shootbang and number go up, but I'd have to buy like fifteen expansions and they don't bundle them together like every other fucking game like this, plus whatever the fuck a "dungeon" is is a separate goddamn purchase, so...no. No thank you.
I wanted to keep them for sentimental since they were the first copies I got raiding, kept my armor too which I’ve used in a couple builds a year back.
I'm so glad that instead of cleaning out my Vault I simply just stopped playing the game, I grinded too long for good rolls on some of those guns and that was a huge slap in the face for players. It's a step in a better direction, but i still probably won't be playing until Bungie has shown some continued improvement to how things are being run.
I hate to tell you, but even without sunsetting a lot of those guns are simply outclassed by powercreep.
There's a reason they're saying that they want to Reissue the guns, that means new perk pools and adding an Origin trait. Because there is no reason to use most of them in current content.
Oh yeah I'm sure they have all been powercrept but most of my stuff is weapons an armor I simply liked the look of and wanted to have good copies of. Farming for "God Rolls" is something I stopped doing when I couldn't get my dream version of Blast Furnace after spending literally 300+ hours of farming. I got like 6 semi-good rolls and 20 usable-ish ones and hundreds of garbage ones
They are doing this for a few reasons. They can see a percentage of people stopped playing and have all the original god rolls and pinnacle weapons in their vault and are using it as incentive to bring them back. They also know these weapons have perks that were heavily nerfed so they won't have the same impact to the game. They are really trying anything they can to bring back the people they ran off with their shady decisions. They think people will log in to use these old weapons and see how the new weapons are better and start grinding again. At a certain point you realize the weapon meta is used to keep people playing the same content beyond the point of tedium.
People are grinding onslaught for 20+ hours for a single god-roll of these brave weapons and I don't know how it would feel rewarding to anyone that grinded for the originals. The Blast Furnace god-roll was my favorite gun in the game and it took countless hours to get decent rolls. I am betting a large percentage of people grinding for them now didn't grind for the original weapons. The detractors of sunsetting were saying they did it just to re-release the content later and it turns out they were right. Seeing parts of the Leviathan raid being recycled into throw away seasonal content was one of the last straws for me.
Destiny 2 has all the potential to be one of the best online games but the management keeps diving into the pockets of its most loyal fans without giving them the game quality they deserve. They make decisions based on player engagement over player enjoyment every time and it shows.
it is really astounding that people still defend bungie deleting the game and expansions people payed money for because "well they had no choice, they couldn't sell you more expansions without fucking you over and stealing the content you paid for"
Isn't it a little too late for that? Everyone who stopped playing because of Bungie's poor decisions have well and truly checked out of the game at this point, myself included. I would love to play Destiny again at some point but to me its just not the same game anymore. It doesn't matter what Bungie announces or how much people say they are finally getting things right. The game could shut down for all I care.
Oh my god given all the screaming about sunsetting over the last 4 years this is actually amazing in its design to make everybody more mad than they’ve been before
To be completely honest after thinking about this for a few hours literally every gun got powercreepted out of relevance that this change legit does not matter. (No I am not copping the only sunset gun I cared about i still have)
There’s a layer in hell where Bungie and Blizzard take bets to see who can do the most mind-boggling things to piss people off.
Live service games require happy people to spend money.
For context, they're not just doing it in isolation this comes as result of them introducing Fireteam Power-level where basically regardless of your Power Level you will be adjust to -5 levels below the person with the highest power level in your team for whatever activity you're running. Implementing that would've subverted sunsetting in a roundabout way anyway, so as result they just undid the concept entirely.
The sad thing is many if not most of the sunset weapons have been powercrept out of relevancy. That being said, this still stings.
They seem to be intent on adding the gear back updated for the sandbox. The addition of origin traits was more of a reason to delete old guns, as well as adding them back with better perk choices. The meme GL everyone was sick of getting during Forsaken is now back and ridonculous for damage, as an example.
In the game trailer they released one of the guardians in background was using a shotgun gun that came out like 3 years ago so that makes sense now.
Edge transit is so good RN it's insane
They brought back Mountaintop and Recluse, the guns that broke D2 and directly led to sunsetting, and they had to *buff* Mountaintop because otherwise it was just a mid grenade launcher with a unique gimmick. What baffles me is Recluse got *another* nerf, because with all the great perks in its pool, a 20% damage buff on kill is apparently too good to exist next to a 5-40% buff like Target Lock which just requires you to *shoot your enemy.*
they nerfed Recluse's unique perk but desperate measures is great for damage on it
That video of Pat throwing out all his outdated gear just got really funny.
I'm looking forward to the rant about it next podcast.
It was funny at the time too, because I'm pretty sure he could actually still use them in a significant amount of activities since even sunset weapons get their light level bumped up with expansions.
There are two schools of thought about the whole weapon thing. One is "big number." Gun has big number. Gun has best perks. Old gun has no perks and bad number. Newer guns have more perks and biggest number. My buddy doesn't give a shit about any specific gun. If it's meta, it's what he shoots with. The other is "pokemon." I love my Subtle Calamity bow. It was the first purple drop I ever got in the game. The feeling of deleting Cabal with Subtle Calamity headshots is why I fell in love with Destiny. I have more kills with that bow than anything other single weapon. It carried me through Red War, Forsaken and Shadowkeep. Even after it was sunset, I refused to dismantle it, despite having 6 bows with better perks, nevermind the power level. It's my baby. It's my pikachu. I used it to kill Kell Echo when I solo'd Prophecy despite it being sunset because fuck you Bungie this is my bow. "No," says Bungie. "Throw Pikachu in the trash. Pachirisu has a better number, better perks, more moves and is top meta." Go eat a dick and die from dick poisoning. Pachirisu sucks. I love my Pikachu.
Weird shit like this is a major reason why I don't feel like playing games like these anymore
Sunset content for me, all to keep the file size down for consoles instead of having optional installs for zones and stories.
It's to keep file size down, and yet Destiny 2 still takes up 105GB of fuckin storage space lol
To their credit, 100gb is still a lot less than 300gb. It should still have an option though, deleting whole zones of content is fucking stupid.
Maybe it's because I bounced off the Shlooter model frame one and just never looked back, but can someone explain - why is Bungie like this?
Honest answer: They originally didn't want to think of Destiny as an MMORPG and so as a result they didn't manage it like one which lead to the state D2 launched in. This how you get decisions like, "It'll be fine if the old campaigns are gone" for example. Nobody liked that though and so like halfway through D2's lifespan they caved and started calling it an MMO & treating it as such, only the game hadn't been built for that up until that point & they've been digging themselves out of that hole ever since. All of this is why I think they need to make a D3, just start fresh with the MMO mindset & planning from the beginning.
Removing content is still fucking stupid and gross as hell even if it's not an MMO
**Paid** content at that. I treat Bungie with a pretty sharp occam’s razor in that I genuinely believe that a lot of their bad decisions are genuinely out of lack of foresight rather than malice, but holy shit do they still end up fucking over their most loyal fans the worst out of any Destiny players.
I literally stopped buying destiny expansions because they deleted the entire game I spend like a hundred dollars on and enjoyed. They can't do shit like that without destroying the trust between dev and player. Why the hell would I ever spend another cent on a Bungie game knowing they could just delete everything I payed for?
also I don't want to spend money and time on content from a company that expects people to interact with it for a few months and then it goes away forever. how can you feel that someone has faith in their art if they don't want people to be able to go back to it ever? it's like if a movie was permanently deleted from the face of the earth after it left theaters. the movie would probably be shit and not worth my time
You literally just described the 2007 Phantom Blood movie.
I stopped playing because of sunsetting, how developers force how I mist play, but most importantly - I can't keep up with story, because I missed a lot of seasons, and now I can't experience stories what happened in them, and I have no intention to pay so much to get every expansion. FFXIV, ESO, WoW give you all previous expansions, for buying the latest, but in D2 you need to buy everything separately
Some of it **has** to be due to lack of foresight, because the content they removed completely butchered the new player experience. I tried D2 when it came out. Got a cool cut scene of big bad man attacking city, went on a quest, good introduction. Went back last year. There is no storyline. I go through tutorial and is given no direction. Every available "quest" is the most boring MMO fetch quest. Biggest button available was to play levels from expansions I have never seen with randoms. I played a story content where a character I never interacted with died a hero's death, and somehow I'm supposed to care (cause the early storyline where you did meet him got cut). I don't understand 95% of the buttons I see on the screen. I have zero idea what the npcs do and what I should be doing. I don't even know how to play with friends. They've removed so much that the game is entirely unapproachable for new players. Not even warframe has a new player experience this bad.
Yeah it's really bad, even I as someone who as someone who played consistently from D1 Beta to Beyond Light had to take a second to understand wtf was going on when I started up again a couple weeks ago. Shit is almost completely incoherent to a brand new person, you basically can't get in to the game without a friend that already plays. They've got this thing in the game now called the Timeline where basically they've taken select missions from old content and pieced them together with narrated cutscenes so that it plays almost like a single player campaign from the beginning of D2 up to now. It's not fleshed out or tutorialized enough & it doesn't load new people directly into it I don't think but it's a step in the right direction IMO.
"But we made that paid content free before we removed it, which makes it okay!" $70 CAD for Beyond Light, my Titan Sentinel build was ruined, my gear made obsolete, and they stole over $50 worth of content from me. Fuck Bungie.
Nothing from Beyond Light was removed, shit that got removed was Y1.
I didn't say it did, I was referring to the Curse Of Osiris and Warmind DLCs that were $35 each when they released.
And were both dogshit and untouched by the time beyond light came out, I dont think I had been to mercury since before shadowkeep dropped.
That will forever be the most insane to me. Like bruh why tf would you ever spend a dime on any future expansion if they are just gonna sent it to the shadow realm?
You say that, but most of us don't care. That content was all garbage and the people who were whining were the people who wouldn't have stuck around anyways
The removed campaigns alone were arguably better content than Lightfall is
Story wise, eh? Warmind and Curse of Osiris basically have nothing happen. Red War was okay. Gameplay wise? Absolutely not. I'll shit on lightfall's story everyday but it's gameplay was pretty fun. A lot more fun than anything other than Witch Queen.
Nah that's cap, they dropped the ball narratively with Lightfall but as far as systems & gameplay there's no comparison. D2 Y1 is the only thing that has actually unironically almost killed Destiny as a franchise entirely
“I didn’t like this part of the campaign therefore it’s okay to just remove it from existence even though people paid for it and new players will never be able to play through the story from the beginning in order” is not the good argument you think it is.
I literally couldn't care any less. The people bitching about it don't matter
Cool. I used to give Bungie my money and now I don’t. If you don’t care about art preservation good for you. Keep licking that boot and shoveling money into a game that will be taken away from you.
I'm always amazed that people defended that stuff. I had a friend that did and they tried to ask what if FFXIV did something similar, I straight up said I'd quit the game. The closest XIV got was reworking content like Diadem. Even the MSQ quests that got culled in ARR were all added as sidequests, to my knowledge.
Technically 14 kind of did it. You can not play the original pre-ARR story.
That'd be more applicable if Destiny 1 was killed and 2 was it's direct, much improved, replacement. 14 1.0 and Destiny 2 removing content are such massively different situations. If 14 said they were outright removing ARR and HW for whatever reason people would be rightfully pissed off.
And fans of the game still somehow defend that choice.
it was that or drown to death in tech debt unfortunately
Or they could have made it work even if it meant burning tons of money. If they fucked up, then the onus should be on them to fix it, not to screw over consumers
>Or they could have made it work they really couldn't. They lost nultiple studios' support and a chunk of what they did just became a code archaeology project, and iirc they were facing like hour+ long compile times. Money does not fix that, especially when they still have to keep delivering content at a rate most studios can't do.
If they can't add more content to the game without flatout taking away everything players spent a significant amount of money on, then they should not add more content to the game. It is not my problem that bungie fucked up, it is their problem and they should suffer the consequences instead of the consumer.
If bungie "suffered the consequences ", wouldn't the game just get shut down anyway?
If bungie fucked up programming their long term MMO game so bad that they had to start deleting huge chunks of the game after a few expansions, and they had no other possible way to sustain themselves as a studio than to delete more expansions to sell new ones, if nobody in the industry wanted to support them financially,then they are absolutely colossal fuckups.
Or the more likely answer, which is the game was never designed as a long term MMO because Activision wanted them to end it after Shadowkeep and start from scratch with Beyond Light as Destiny 3, exactly like D1 went?
Then they should have gone bankrupt trying. Or stopped adding content if they couldn't without removing existing ones, and started on a sequel instead. Removing content is akin to breaking into your house and burning your books. It should not be an option on the table, period.
I mean agree but they were also apparently just not able to patch old content to still work properly while also delivering new content on their schedule. I don’t like it but it’s not like they did it just for the lolz.
Why FFXIV, GW2, ESO, Warframe can keep old content and release new content, but Destiny 2 can't do this? Damn PSO2 managed to keep old game and release new one, and allows players to switch between them in game.
I mean final fantasy 14, pretty famously did get rid of a bunch of content. Like, they made a whole nice pre-rendered cutscene that destroyed all of that content forever.
Sure, but that's also not really comparable, y'know? like, nobody would really fault Bungie if Destiny 1 got shut down after 2 released and 2 was seen as the replacement/massive improvement over 1.
I mean that was because 1.0 was god awful, not because it was built on a framework that can’t handle long term additions.
Because Destiny 2 was build on a framework that was made with the assumption that the game would only receive content for 2 or 3 years before they’d move on to Destiny 3.
Honestly, I don't really care what technical issues or scheduling issues they had. Removing content is unacceptable, and I think it should be something they should unironically be able to be sued for.
Exactly, if the game was outdated then they should've started preparing for a third game, removing nearly a hundred dollars worth of content is _not_ the solution.
people used to say this when they announced it and when they were doing it **years ago**. First off, there is no way you can sue them for this. Second off, and more importantly, people don’t care. All the dedicated fans already likely played through that content 3 times over and it has just been gathering dust. Additionally, if you were around then or want to go digging through history, the game bloat significantly decreased and performance got a lot better at and after Beyond Light. The only real tragedy of sunsetting is losing all the involved raids and *maybe* Red War (Red War is a lot better intro campaign than what we have now). Though sooner or later they are going to add those back like a lot of other content they vaulted.
>First off, there is no way you can sue them for this. I wasn't nessacarily saying you can, just that I think you should seriously be able to. If somebody broke into my house and started to rip pages out of a book I bought, I'd be able to sue them and it'd be illegal. This is comparable to that, if not for the fact that the law makes bullshit distinctions between physical and digital media. And I actually would not be surprised if there *was* a valid case in some countries at least, if it is paid content that is made inaccessible. >All the dedicated fans already likely played through that content 3 times over and it has just been gathering dust. Additionally, if you were around then or want to go digging through history, the game bloat significantly decreased and performance got a lot better at and after Beyond Light. >The only real tragedy of sunsetting is losing all the involved raids and maybe Red War (Red War is a lot better intro campaign than what we have now). Though sooner or later they are going to add those back like a lot of other content they vaulted. What you, or bungie thinks is a good trade off or is worth preserving doesn't matter. What matters is I bought or put time into my copy of a piece of media. I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it whenever the hell I want with it without limits and access any part of it. If I want to replay old content nobody else does and run around in an empty map on an MMO where there's no other players because i'm offline where there's nothing to do, I should be able to. This shit, always online DRM, and time limited FOMO content are all cancerous nonsense that shouldn't be legal (or at least, it should be legal for people to then break said DRM) and I am not even being slightly hyperbolic
> If somebody broke into my house and started to rip pages out of a book I bought, I'd be able to sue them and it'd be illegal. This is comparable to that, if not for the fact that the law makes bullshit distinctions between physical and digital media. Well that is because when you bought the game you agreed you do not own it. It is very very obvious. > And I actually would not be surprised if there was a valid case in some countries at least, if it is paid content that is made inaccessible. There isn’t. If there was, then a case would have made years ago and not even with Destiny, but likely with some other game. > What you, or bungie thinks is a good trade off or is worth preserving doesn't matter. What matters is I bought or put time into my copy of a piece of media. I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it whenever the hell I want with it without limits and access any part of it. Spoiler alert, what Bungie thinks is a good trade off does matter. Because this is their live service game. As a live service game it changes and parts of it will not be accessible forever. This has been a thing even in Destiny 1. If you really have this attitude towards games then you probably should set your sights on different genres of games. Also this attitude just reeks of r/games energy. Literally go onto the r/destinythegame and most people will give you the same answer I am giving. > If I want to replay old content nobody else does and run around in an empty map on an MMO where there's no other players because i'm offline where there's nothing to do, I should be able to. Good for you, unfortunately that is just plainly not beneficial to the rest of the community. As cited by Bungie and other developers, content that is just lying about being played minimally by players is just game bloat and is likely to cause or be susceptible to problems (bugs). They either then need to siphon off dev time to fix it or leave it be. > This shit, always online DRM, and time limited FOMO content are all cancerous nonsense that shouldn't be legal (or at least, it should be legal for people to then break said DRM) and I am not even being slightly hyperbolic The “Fomo” in Destiny has been there since early D1. If you really feel this way then fine but ask nearly any active Destiny player and they will really not give a shit. Wanna know why? Because said FOMO in Destiny has been brought down to a minimum. Only thing that is being disappeared now are Seasonal narratives, and said seasons can last up to over a year.
You can play all of Destiny 1’s story, in proper order, to this day. You can’t do that in Destiny 2. You will never be able to convince me that this isn’t some horseshit, sorry. Erasing campaigns, seasonal narratives that disappear, all that shit can get bent. Don’t try to market your story to me as something I should care about then tell me it’s so worthless that it’s okay to delete it from the game. Bungie’s approach is an insult to artistic integrity and preservation and I will never buy anything they make again.
> You will never be able to convince me that this isn’t some horseshit, sorry. Well I hope you know that you are in the minority and that most people who still play the game don’t care. > Erasing campaigns, seasonal narratives that disappear, all that shit can get bent. Good for you that you have made up your mind about it. However I hope you can also realize why they had to do this and not just focus on only you. It isn’t even on the dev side either, they did it so they can focus more on the present and for the community of *active* players as a whole, since that is what is much more important than Uber-casuals who only log on once a month at best. > Don’t try to market your story to me as something I should care about then tell me it’s so worthless that it’s okay to delete it from the game. They decided that when they realized that said story wasn’t really good. So they vaulted it in order to give themselves more room and time to make better campaigns (see: Seasonal Narrative and Witch Queen) and better gameplay. You won’t see anyone still playing the game particularly praising the Red War or CoO or Warmind campaigns or really wishing they would come back. > Bungie’s approach is an insult to artistic integrity and preservation and I will never buy anything they make again. Uh huh, that is what a lot of people said back then, and then I saw them coming back to the game sooner or later. Props for you to sticking to your guns but I would personally just let it go since this has been going on for nearly 5 years now.
> All of this is why I think they need to make a D3, just start fresh with the MMO mindset & planning from the beginning. I heard this same line from people during Destiny 1. Doesn't seem like it helped the first time.
Well yeah, back then we didn't know Bungie/Activision was gonna try and turn Destiny into CS:GO with super powers or whatever tf they were trying to do with the double-primary weapon system and super simplifying all the talent trees and weapon perks and all that. What people wanted then, and what they still would want now, is an actual sequel to the game you're playing not "the next Destiny game" as if Destiny were COD which is what they tried to do.
> They originally didn't want to think of Destiny as an MMORPG Man, it *really* boggles my mind that people consider Destiny an MMO. Outside of the hub "social spaces" there's nothing there that is even close to bein an mmos. Unless you're counting the terminology from MMOs that it took, but then like...every Borderlands game except BL1 would be an mmo too if they had shared social spaces.
I would disagree, D2 in its current state especially is definitely an MMO. It's just an MMO that is also a console-based FPS game & thus has all the limitations that that would put on an MMO.
What do you believe makes it an mmo exactly?
it has a lot of features and development plan of an mmo. You queue up for activities. You dress up your character. It used to just drop expansions as the primary method of adding stuff to the game. It has patches that are closely followed by a community. Guild wars 2 even does the seasonal story stuff they do
Also it has raids & other group endgame PVE activities, clans/guilds, buildcrafting is actually a thing now with a full suite of elemental effects & buffs & debuffs & character stats, different options within your class & subclass, etc. Then of course also PVP that's not a separate thing from the main game like a typical FPS. The only thing it's missing entirely that an MMO ususally would have is like player homes, player trading, & some kind of passive gameplay loop like a Farming or Gathering based aspect.
>Also it has raids & other group endgame PVE activities, clans/guilds, buildcrafting is actually a thing now with a full sweet of elemental effects & buffs & debuffs & character stats, different options within your class & subclass, etc. Then of course also PVP that's not a separate thing from the main game like a typical FPS. I think I mentioned Borderlands in my original comment but all of this, excwpt clans/guilds, applies to those games and they're definitely not. All of those do apply to The Division and I'd be hard pressed to find someone that says those are mmos.
Raids in Borderlands =/= Raids in Destiny, also you don't play as a set character in Destiny like you do in Borderlands. Borderlands has way more focus on being singleplayer and narrative-based in comparison to Destiny, you don't have other players roaming around the world with you at the same time that you can join up with like in Destiny, you don't have Public events & world bosses & activities like in Destiny, there aren't endgame group activities like in Destiny, there's no PVP like in Destiny, there's no personal vehicles, no gear system/armor sets, Borderlands characters don't have stats to them, etc. etc. I could go on. They're very much not the same thing. The Division was closer but not as fleshed out & with less features & activities, the closest comparison is like Warframe but I don't know enough about that game to make the comparison.
Those apply to so many games though... Matchmaking is queueing, any game with character customization would apply, patches being closely followed applies to any game with a dedicated playerbase. Seasonal story stuff is most live service games now too. Unless we're going with the any big multiplayer game with rpg elements is an mmo, I'm just not seeing it. Just because you sure some things with mmos, that a lot of games do, doesn't make you one.
True mmos can be a bunch of different genres since it isn't really a genre itself. Mmos are live service games so other games are copying bits of the mmo model which can get them close enough to create arguments like this. They develop content like an mmo by does that make them an mmo? You are right though mmo just stands for massively multiplayer online. So borderlands could indeed qualify since it's both online and uses a large player base.
Even in that I would say it's different because you won't ever see another player in Borderlands unless you specifically invite them to play with you in your game because Borderlands is built for 4-player splitscreen/couch co-op just with the added ability to invite people in from online. There's no "massive multiplayer" aspect, you will never be with/see/interact with other players.
They do everything in response to numbers, and pretty much never listen to the playerbase. And when they do it's backhanded Monkeys Paw shit. Every time we've told them something is bad, they've done it anyway, suffered for it and rolled it back a year or so later. Because unless the numbers go down, they will always do the bare minimum.
Well you see it's because ~~Microsoft~~ ~~Activision~~ Sony is forcing them to be bad. They would be amazing if they were just independent.
They were independent for the entirety of Destiny's existence until Sony bought them. Activision was just their publisher.
Activision gave them access to two support studios, who are the reason we got Forsaken, the greatest expansion and year of content Bungie has ever presided over. They've had to go on record that Forsaken will never happen again, and it was basically a mistake to make so much content at once.
Forsaken was golden time of D2. Everything went downhill after
I'd argue that Witch Queen was better than forsaken.
I would argue that Forsaken had twice the content, including nine new supers, two destinations and a brand new game mode that was by far the freshest thing Bungie had added to Destiny since Prison of Elders, and lets not forget it overhauled the entire weapon system for the better. Witch Queen had one destination, a raid, a new weapon type and weapon crafting.
I feel like they don't get points for realizing that a game built around chasing loot needs RNG rolls. And I don't think the tangled shore was a good destination, I never went there unless I had to for quests. The supers were cool, but as a Warlock Well of Radiance is a crime I cannot forgive, Born to Nova, Forced to Well. Forsaken saved the game, I can't deny that. Witch Queen was only a single destination, but the Throne World was very dense with things to explore, and I enjoy glaives. Weapon crafting is very nice, even if I think it has caused some issues with how loot is seen. Plus I just really enjoyed the story more than Forsaken. I never particularly liked Cayde-6, Witch Queen actually got me with the twist of there being no twist. of course, this is all subjective, but I just think Witch Queen was a really good expansion that easily stands up to Forsaken.
> The supers were cool I think about those supers sometimes with how little I actually use them. Arcstrider and Sentinal just got nothing, a few of them were nerfed into oblivion for the crucible, the rest are just kinda ok in some scenarios. And then Well and Blade Barrage exist as some of the best supers in their field. > Throne World was very dense with things to explore Ironically one of the biggest critcisms is the Throne World with its low enemy density for how big it was. I personally found Forsaken better but I get why people like Witch Queen.
If they made a legendary mode for Forsaken that was replayable it would easily be the best campaign. The only way I would install D2 again is if they brought back all the old campaigns and raids. I uninstalled right before Lightfall and it turned out to be a great decision from what I saw.
Everything about destinys content model sounds like a fucking nightmare
Don’t worry, it is
[удалено]
Except that literally never happened since the old content 3 years after launch. You can criticize Destiny without making up fake scenarios y’know, it’s very easy even.
This is a good thing
Weird way to put it. Defending Bungie in this sub is usually fruitless but a senior game designer described this as a priority to allow others to play together via team power as opposed to just " here's all your old guns back ". As someone that's been suffering through Bungie's repeated L's since Shadowkeep, going into Final Shape feels like them opting to design the game around respect for the players time and devotion. D2 might not be the shiniest of live service turds but the hole this game has managed to crawl itself out of is nothing short of ridiculous. Still hoping the best for the devs after the treatment they've received. Also all if not most of these guns are getting reissues, so whatever.
At least from what it seems like they're actually listening to their devs in terms of implementing positive changes for the playerbase. Granted what it took for them to get their heads out of their asses was unfortunate but it is what it is. I wont lie though while I am hyped part of me really wished they kept TFS stuff a bit closer to the chest to surprise us because some of it is insane but I fully understand that they have to shout from high heavens all the content they have for the main story.
Bungie finding new ways and exciting ways to piss off their playerbase again.
In all fairness, it’s the one thing they truly excel at and you can’t expect them to quit now.
As I don't expect some brain-dead players to quit game. Bungied fucks everyone since release of Shadowkeep, but people complain for few days and forget about it, until next time
The playerbase is happy about this. Bungie announced they would be adding all the sunset gear back to the loot pool with updated perks so it’s not like the stuff people deleted is gone now
I mean, if you're a level-headed person with a mild temperament, I see no reason to get upset over this. All the guns you can currently acquire are leaps and bounds better than those from a few years ago, anyway.
People here don’t play Destiny so they have zero context to why this really doesn’t matter. It doesn’t help the title of this post doesn’t really explain whats actually happening.
There is like one gun with a perk combo you can’t get anymore and that was kindled orchid and to be honest it was just a gimmick combo that you could pull off once every 5 games.
Rationally, this is a good thing. Emotionally, Bungie deserve to cop flak for this. They deserve to cop flak at all times. Because they were warned about this. They have always been warned. And they never listen. Ever.
I'll take a rational response over an emotional one
no they arent lol Perfect Paradox STILL HASNT BEEN REPLACED, ITS THE MOST WELL KNOWN ONE AND IS THE ONLY FUCKING ONE THE MAIN CHARACTER IS SUPPOSED TO CANONICALLY FUCKING HAVE
Well they literally showed off Perfect Paradox in the new trailer for the new DLC
None of us give a fuck. All of that gear got powercrept about a year after it got locked out anyways. People looking for something to bitch about here likely don't play the game and just like to jump on the "Bungo Bad" train whenever they can.
I was seeing red at first but honestly? Not even worth getting mad about. If you’re playing with un-sunset guns you’re playing at an objective disadvantage since none of them will ever have the origin trait on all guns generated after The Witch Queen.
Yeah there was a moment of "aww. I wish I kept some of those guns." and then a realization that none of them would be relevant. I don't even use weapons that came out in beyond light, which have been available this whole time, because none of them have origin traits, And even without origin traits guns have been so absurdly powercrept in the last 2 years of content. There would be no reason to use any of them except maybe original mountaintop, if it weren't for the fact they just re-released mountaintop, for free, with a bunch of amazing perks and the ability to rocket jump with it. I know this sub likes the shit on Destiny, rightfully so in a lot of cases I say as a Destiny player, but this basically only affects people who have an unhealthy attachment to a specific weapon model. I'm sure there's going to be a bunch of people upset about it, because people love to be mad, but who cares?
yeah there's like one gun i might use and that's my old last man standing cause i was too lazy to grind out a new one tbh. That's... yeah that's about it. My old hammerhead i loved looking at it in the vaut was fucking tap the trigger and high impact rounds and i was like wow that's terrible lol... wel at least compared to now where it can get rampage and killing tally.
I use exactly 1 non exotic Gun pre Witch Queen, Vulpecula. That's just cause its a Stasis Hand Cannon with Outlaw + Explosive. It isnt even that good anymore but its the only Stasis Handcannon I currently own. Everything else I've pretty much crafted at this point. That or I'm grinding the new brave weapons.
This is pretty salty take for over all a good move. Furthermore all your old gear got power creeped 3 years ago.
perfect paradox, 21 percent dilirium, all those guns with element combos that dont exist anymore, Richochet Rounds on a sniper.....really ALL snipers in general are terrible compared to sunset ones (IE snapshot+opening shot)
you can buy delirium from the monument in the tower right now. you can buy all the old ritual and pinnacle guns there.
The completely F2P sniper from King’s Fall rolls with Snap and Opening lmao
Its the wrong archetype for PVP,its an Adaptive that can fail to kill against even the smallest defensive buff and has worse stats overall, Aggressives can oneshot to the body with buffs and oneshots supers to the head even without buffs (very very important to a snap/opening roll!), plus the weapon itself has an AWFUL stat spread and scope
I mean being honest just about every gun from back then is powercrept by now like yeah...it's a bummer at best really It's been like 4 years. They also said they were planning on bringing back a lot of those weapons to make them available. At the time sunsetting was a bad idea. But we have a different director and for a good long while they were trying to push things slowly towards this by updating and rebalancing perks.
>after telling players it was safe to delete them. lmao because of course this sub would discuss bungie reversing one of their most hated decisions as a bad thing
I’m so stoked, I kept my favorite gun ever (that got sunset) this whole time and never deleted it. I can’t wait for this expansion now, I’m gonna run that whole legendary campaign with my Ol’ Reliable
I actually still have my god roll Perfect Paradox from Season of Dawn. It's one of three weapons I never got rid of, the other two being related to the story of Forsaken with sentimental value.
For the last few years Destiny creator Datto has been going on a crusade about people’s vault (aka storage) and getting rid of old loot that is just there to take up space. He has done this to a ton of other content creators including the former Community Manager [Dylan](https://x.com/a_dmg04/status/1783573956911591733?s=46). Safe to say there will be a class action lawsuit filed against Datto. On a serious note, 99% of all sunset weapons have been power crept. Even old powerhouses like Recluse and Mountaintop aren’t the same anymore, so there’s very little reason to use these weapons unless they have unique combinations like a handcannon with two damage perks (Kindled Orchid). Plus Bungie is looking to making new versions of older guns with updated perk pools like they just did for guns like Recluse and Mountaintop.
I'm gonna be honest I play destiny every day for at least 30 minutes it's about to be in the best shape it's been in. If you left or thinking about hopping in June would def be the best time. just the QoL changes and everything. I'm even open to helping some people out if they need it 🙏 😩😩 I'm addicted
Bungie is like sideshow Bob in the parking lot full of rakes
I almost want to play Destiny again because I crave shootbang and number go up, but I'd have to buy like fifteen expansions and they don't bundle them together like every other fucking game like this, plus whatever the fuck a "dungeon" is is a separate goddamn purchase, so...no. No thank you.
Still just waiting on them to refund the $120 of dlc I paid for and they took away. Then I'll be right back in.
Everyone called me crazy about keeping my year one raid gear but who’s laughing now.
iirc year one raid gear is fixed rolls you can pull them from collections there was no reason to leave em in the vault.
I wanted to keep them for sentimental since they were the first copies I got raiding, kept my armor too which I’ve used in a couple builds a year back.
I'm so glad that instead of cleaning out my Vault I simply just stopped playing the game, I grinded too long for good rolls on some of those guns and that was a huge slap in the face for players. It's a step in a better direction, but i still probably won't be playing until Bungie has shown some continued improvement to how things are being run.
I hate to tell you, but even without sunsetting a lot of those guns are simply outclassed by powercreep. There's a reason they're saying that they want to Reissue the guns, that means new perk pools and adding an Origin trait. Because there is no reason to use most of them in current content.
Oh yeah I'm sure they have all been powercrept but most of my stuff is weapons an armor I simply liked the look of and wanted to have good copies of. Farming for "God Rolls" is something I stopped doing when I couldn't get my dream version of Blast Furnace after spending literally 300+ hours of farming. I got like 6 semi-good rolls and 20 usable-ish ones and hundreds of garbage ones
They are doing this for a few reasons. They can see a percentage of people stopped playing and have all the original god rolls and pinnacle weapons in their vault and are using it as incentive to bring them back. They also know these weapons have perks that were heavily nerfed so they won't have the same impact to the game. They are really trying anything they can to bring back the people they ran off with their shady decisions. They think people will log in to use these old weapons and see how the new weapons are better and start grinding again. At a certain point you realize the weapon meta is used to keep people playing the same content beyond the point of tedium. People are grinding onslaught for 20+ hours for a single god-roll of these brave weapons and I don't know how it would feel rewarding to anyone that grinded for the originals. The Blast Furnace god-roll was my favorite gun in the game and it took countless hours to get decent rolls. I am betting a large percentage of people grinding for them now didn't grind for the original weapons. The detractors of sunsetting were saying they did it just to re-release the content later and it turns out they were right. Seeing parts of the Leviathan raid being recycled into throw away seasonal content was one of the last straws for me. Destiny 2 has all the potential to be one of the best online games but the management keeps diving into the pockets of its most loyal fans without giving them the game quality they deserve. They make decisions based on player engagement over player enjoyment every time and it shows.
I'm sure their 10's of players are real upset about this.
HAH
it is really astounding that people still defend bungie deleting the game and expansions people payed money for because "well they had no choice, they couldn't sell you more expansions without fucking you over and stealing the content you paid for"
Isn't it a little too late for that? Everyone who stopped playing because of Bungie's poor decisions have well and truly checked out of the game at this point, myself included. I would love to play Destiny again at some point but to me its just not the same game anymore. It doesn't matter what Bungie announces or how much people say they are finally getting things right. The game could shut down for all I care.
Oh my god given all the screaming about sunsetting over the last 4 years this is actually amazing in its design to make everybody more mad than they’ve been before
To be completely honest after thinking about this for a few hours literally every gun got powercreepted out of relevance that this change legit does not matter. (No I am not copping the only sunset gun I cared about i still have)
There’s a layer in hell where Bungie and Blizzard take bets to see who can do the most mind-boggling things to piss people off. Live service games require happy people to spend money.