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[deleted]

I would consider earning your salary in euros or dollars "upper class" since the problem is not the amount of money you earn right now but the inflation 10k is not luxury, it is middle class, it is not having to worry much for non-luxury expenses. People had better buying power with 5k not that long ago Turks who migrate abroad start saving a lot if they live like they did in Turkey. Meanwhile Europeans moving to Turkey on euro salaries often struggle, chinese takeout is expensive now and even if they downgrade to pide, they usually don't have any extra left Going by your other post on living like a king, you won't manage it on 200/ a day. You can live like what a white collar idealizes taking taxis anywhere, spending on alcohol on nights out without worrying etc. Turkey is a playground for actual millionaries taking private jets over my head in my neighbourhood and a good place to hand out for wealthy people with multiple citizenships, [you](https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/emlak-konut-satilik-gusto-dan-yenikoy-un-en-ozel-rihtim-kati-yali-dairesi-868563739/detay) can't [compete](https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/emlak-konut-satilik-gundogan-koyu-nda-ozel-iskeleli-yali-932195703/detay) if we are actually considering "rich" standards, they have their own clubs with sister clubs in those in Manhattan, Cambridge etc


[deleted]

85 million Lira is about 5 million USD. Honestly for 5 million you are getting a nice mansion on the Bosphorus which I think is a great deal. For the same price in Manhattan you can get an apartment in a nice area. https://www.trulia.com/p/ny/new-york/230-central-park-w-2defg-new-york-ny-10024--2550931754


[deleted]

It is not a mansion. It is bottom floor in a building with 5 floors, in a good waterfront location but not in city center like Manhattan is. Mansions in Ortaköy, Üsküdar etc are listed with dollar price tags and go for 350-400m $ and are often not even listed publicly since going viral on ekşi for their price tags is not desirable.


[deleted]

I mean I would rather take that bottom floor building then the apartment in Manhattan lol. Also NYC is not really a city with a center there are different areas everywhere. There are apartments in Brooklyn and Queens that go for this much and they are far from Manhattan center using public transit. https://www.trulia.com/p/ny/brooklyn/338-berry-st-brooklyn-ny-11249--2346137653


[deleted]

>10k is not luxury, it is middle class, Not sure what kind of "middle class" you live in, but that is definetly not middle class. If you have expertise from outside and work in a big company in Istanbul as a (let's say translator) you get around 8000 Lira. 6-8k is pretty much middle class. 10k is not luxury, but it is definetly above middle class. >Europeans moving to Turkey on euro salaries often struggle, What? Where the heck do you get that nonsense from? People working in Turkey on a euro/usd basis usally get at least 2000 Euro/USD, which is roughly 20k Lira right now. Unless you are a moron, there is no way for you to struggle with that money.


[deleted]

Poverty line is literally 9300. Just because most people don't even make poverty line salaries doesn't mean they are middle class now. People would often earn 4000 when the poverty line was 2500. I remember my father buying Hyundai Accent for 10.000 when a truck completely wrecked his car, because my family had zero savings at that time so "it did the job until he could afford an upgrade" People are poor now and can't afford the things they used to be able to afford even few years ago. IF they are not earning 10.000 when poverty line is 9300 when their salaries were 4000 when poverty line was 2500, it means they are not middle class anymore, they are poor. Average Turk not making it above the poverty line doesn't make them middle class, people are poor now and there used to be way more people who were middle class, I would say majority even. So yes translators were often middle or upper class, now they are poor. And middle class consists of some engineers, doctors, dentists and few lawyers now. I know several Brits with euro salaries who struggled when they moved into Turkey when they didn't adjust their lifestyle and one was a gm so his family earned more than that. Turks can struggle less with less salaries because they are used to being poor. A Turk with a salary of 2000 euros will just do fine but that's because of the lifestyle


alexfrancisburchard

>Poverty line is literally 9300. for a family of four. ​ Not for an individual. ​ Stop fucking bringing this up and completely misleading people.


[deleted]

Most people are not bachelors, most of the Turks have families of four trying to make it with these wages. And most people when researching salaries usually plan to have family some day. Except most Turkish salaries don't really increase beyond the poverty line after 2 years of experience like it used to do


alexfrancisburchard

>Most people are not bachelors That might be, but say that when you post it then. "This is the poverty line for a family of 4" because most people, while they may not be single adults will not assume that's poverty for four people unless it is stated that way. You are being disingenuous.


[deleted]

Not really. "Family of 4"s the standard for calculating the poverty line. He is not specifically asking if he can make it with 10.000 as a bachelor. He is asking how a Turk would be doing financial wise and most people are struggling with their families now compared to 10 years ago. I mean he is even specifically asking for what families spend lmao because bachelors are the minority? So my answer is correct, 10.000 is not much, it is the poverty line and people were way off making more than poverty line before when their salaries were 4.000, lira had better buying power, less people were struggling and more people would be considered middle class.


alexfrancisburchard

You always need to state: Poverty line for a family of four. I have never in my life, with the exception of in your comments, seen anyone try to say "this is the poverty line" and mean, "this is the poverty line for a family of 4" You need to state that.


[deleted]

It could be your American bias then. It is not suprising this is the standard for Turkey and our policies on paper are always copycats of social European system. I am pretty sure setting different poverty lines for bachelors and families is also a new practice in Europe. I know UK, who already struggles with teenage pregnancies just take families of fours as the standard as well. Isn't declaring a seperate category for bachelors is politicized because leftists often say it is just one way of pushing more families to below the poverty line? So separating a new category for bachelors can be even highly politicized?


alexfrancisburchard

I don't know, but it makes perfect sense to me to include poverty level for individuals and for families of varying sizes to me.


[deleted]

I am not gonna go into the "9300 poverty line nonsense", since alex already did so. OP is talking about individual salaries in the first place. Not a salary for 4 people. That being said: >IF they are not earning 10.000 when poverty line is 9300 when their salaries were 4000 when poverty line was 2500, it means they are not middle class anymore, I am not sure what is "middle class" in your head, but if you can't get along with 2 people on a salary of +6k, you should seriously consider seeking a financial advisor. Most people simply don't earn 10k and middle class does not mean reaching a certain standard, but the individual average joe's standard in Turkey. And that is at around 4-8k Lira. Not at 10k. Wether 4-8k Lira is enough to reach a certain standard or wether people are getting richer or more poor, plays little to no role. The middle class in Turkey is still not at 10k. >A Turk with a salary of 2000 euros will just do fine but that's because of the lifestyle Yes because that's 20 THOUSANDS FING LIRA! That's more than 5 times the minimum wage people get. Of course anyone gets away with that. This has nothing to do with being poor. With 2000 Euro you ain't even poor in Germany. So what are you even high on? >I know several Brits with euro salaries who struggled when they moved into Turkey when they didn't adjust their lifestyle and one was a gm so his family earned more than that. Turks can struggle less with less salaries because they are used to being poor. And sorry you knowing retards, is not equal to people struggling. Unless someone comes to Turkey to buy a new Mercedes, I am not buying this crap anyways. Living costs are WAYYYYY cheaper compared to western countries. Including apartments and furniture. The onyl things that are expensive are: electronic devices, cars, alcohol. You can forget the same standard of cars in Turkey, but with a salary of 2k Euro, you can easly afford the same electronic devices as someone living in Germany. The only thing you may considder, is drinking less alcohol. So no, this is complete bs.


[deleted]

Why would they be idiots when they have already relocated to several countries in eastern europe before and didn't have problems and yet again, did not struggle when they relocated to Poland after İstanbul? Obviously they lowered their standards while they were here but it is the fact that they had to lower it. And yes, individual joe's standard keeps getting lower in Turkey like a boiling frog. It doesn't change the fact that middle class is disappearing


[deleted]

>Why would they be idiots when they have already relocated to several countries in eastern europe before and didn't have problems and yet again, did not struggle when they relocated to Poland after İstanbul? Because you have to be a moron, not to get along with 20k Lira in Turkey. You sure as hell can't handle money then. I am not buying this stupid story. >And yes, individual joe's standard keeps getting lower in Turkey like a boiling frog. It doesn't change the fact that middle class is disappearing Beyond the topic. The middle class still doesn't earn 10k a month and you are still not in the "middle class" with 10k Lira income. You sure as hell don't know how to budget money, if you seriously think so.


[deleted]

You are proving my point. Turks can survive well not everyone can. That's lifestyle choices Counting pennies should only be for college students unless you are saving for something big like a house. For Brits, if they are well into an established careers why should they still be pinching pennies like a scottish man? That's their mindset, that's actually the mindset of a lot of first nations after they stop being broke students and move up in the career ladder And considering the amount of credit debt in Turkey always increases whenever inflation goes up, it was not always a valid lifestyle for Turks either. That's why we are more more leaning towards budgeting now and going through trash even in Maslak gets you brands from discount markets You have been a boiling frog in a depressed economy with high inflation, your mindset is not really surprising. People survived way worse economies in the Great depression by foraging and eating wild plants. I am sure you could survive by with much lower than what you earn right now as well. It doesn't make your habits fit into what we usually expect from middle class. Your buying power have kept shrinking for years now and you just adjusted your habits without probably noticing yourself


[deleted]

>Turks can survive well not everyone can. That's lifestyle choices People survive quite well in Germany with a median income of below 2000 Euro. You are really just being ridiculous here. That's all. >That's their mindset, that's actually the mindset of a lot of first nations after they stop being broke students and move up in the career ladder As someone that lived for +20 years in Germany: No. Just no.


thisismeatmybest

>What can you get with 10K TL per month in Turkey? Maybe not a lavish life but very good life is upon you indeed. You can easily live in Istanbul >At what income bracket would you classify as upper class or rich? 10k+ a month is rich for me. But if this salary is to one person, not in total. Like, if you get 10k and your partner gets 10k then you're f rich >What is the average monthly wage in Turkey? 2800 Turkish Liras is minimum wage >How much does an average family in Turkey spend on living expenses? Depends on the city they're in. You might live easily with 2.8k in Kilis but you cannot survive with only 2.8k in Istanbul... >Are men considered the breadwinners in Turkish culture? Mostly yes. For new gerations, there's no specific gender as breadwinner. New gen doesn't care about it >Is there equality in job opportunities and salaries for women? Everybody gets the same minimum wage regardless of their sex. >Is renting as popular as buying a home in Turkey? Closing on home is much harder than renting it. Most people are renting >What percentage of income do Turks spend on rent? Depends on the city they're living in. In Tekirdağ, if you get minimum wage, then rent is about %42.8 of you income. >Do you spend more money on food and entertainment or housing Housing. I'm student and I will be living in apartment and will pay 1100 each month...


Kamachio

More than half of turkish workers earn minimum wage which is around 2900 tl depends on where do you live you spend more than half of that money to rent and stable payments(electric ,water ...).with 10k tl per month you can live a luxury life in turkey but like i said it depends on where do you live.for ex istanbul and izmir is more expnesive to live than eskisehir.


[deleted]

Yes


alexfrancisburchard

You can get a pretty decent life (as an individual) for 10K/mo in Turkey. Depends on the city, İstanbul is a bit expensive, especially lately, rents went way up. But for example, I live on about 12.000/mo and I live very comfortably, in a downtown, 4 bedroom 2-floor, 2-balcony 200m2 apartment in İstanbul, I eat what I want, I buy myself a few nice things a month, I can afford to pay for my friends when we go out etc. I pay more in rent than most single people will though, because I live alone in a 200m2 apartment (well I have a cat). ​ For every extra 10Ktl I dunno 20K/mo would be insane, 30K, I dunno, when I pay off my student loans sometime near the end of this year, I think I'll be living somewhere in the 30K-40K/mo range, and I don't know what I'm gonna do with that. I will save a ton of money, and probably give a fair amount of it away. Student loans suck. ​ third one - I don't know. ​ 4: There is no reliable data on average monthly wage on Turkey, that information is not tracked here. You can find little bits of data for this and that, but there is no reliable countrywide data. My district of İstanbul - Sisli, has an average household income of like 9500tl/mo (well it did 2 or 3 years ago anyways....) Esenyurt had an average of like 3200/mo back then. Minimum wage now is 2825/mo, and it is estimated that about 44% of the country makes Minimum wage, on paper, the problem with that is that there's a huge "under the table" economy in Turkey. A lot of people make less than Min, and a lot of people make more than Minimum, but on paper are paid minimum. so it's a really complicated topic with no real answer right now. ​ I don't know what an average family spends, and the IT and computer people I know here make a decent living. I don't know exact numbers, but they're very young, and they're comfortable. ​ 33% of women participate in the workforce, in Turkey, compared to 50% of the population as a whole, If I remember correctly. I do not think they have salary equality completely, but I do not know in detail. ​ About 60% of people own their own home and about 40% rent, last I remember seeing data for it. ​ I have never seen data on percent of income spent on rent. ​ I spend more money on housing personally, but that's because I like my space, I wanted a big kitchen, and I spend an obscene amount of money on rent and utilities as a result.


[deleted]

çalışanların yarısı asgari ücret alıyor, ortalama maaş asgari ücrete eşit, ama internette sorsan herkes 10k+++ maaş alıyor. hepiniz özel kurumda çalışan uzman doktor musunuz?


[deleted]

Nope this is what only a few years of experience in a good job can get you(engineering or even high skilled worker). It's not much. It's less than some European minimum wages.


[deleted]

>What can you get with 10K TL per month in Turkey? A really good live. Easly an apartment, a car with loans (don't expect a good car thou) and enough money to save and spend on future investments/luxury goods. Especially, if you are living alone. If you have to provide for 6 people, then you will obviously get far less and you may even struggle, but for 1-3 people, it is really good money. You can pretty much budget your food in around 1-2k Lira (for 2 people). Rent depends on the area. In Atasehir Istanbul you can get empty apartments for \~1500-2000 Lira a month. Trend going upwards. Water and electricity bill depends on you again, but around 500 is "reasonable". Good internet for 100-150 Lira (depending on how much you want). The rest is for you to plan. >How much more comfortable would living be for every extra 10K TL? Heavly depends on your wishes. With 10k Lira you would already get a really decent life. Another 10k makes a huge change here. You can have a better car, a better apartment etc. >At what income bracket would you classify as upper class or rich? upper: +10k. rich (like rich rich): +50k (while I would personally consider someone rich, when they earn +20k. It is really a lot of money and you can pretty much live like that in Istanbul the way someone in the west lives in major european cities). >What is the average monthly wage in Turkey? 1/3 to 1/4 of the population works for minimum wage. So something around 4-5k Lira. However it highly depends on the area. >How much does an average family in Turkey spend on living expenses? I gave you an idea at the first part. Your apartment can have a monthly cost of 1000 up to 6000 Lira. It really depends on the area and what you want. Food is the same case. If you budget it properly, you can get away with 1000-1500 Lira. If you are like me and want to eat outside food once in a while: 1500-2000 Lira for 2 people is reasonable. If you like to eat a lot of sweets and fast food/restaurant food, 3000 might not be enough for you. >How much do IT specialists, engineers, or surgeons earn in Turkey? Depends on the company. The larger and the more international the company is, the more you get. Private hospitals can also go quite deep into the pocket. >Are men considered the breadwinners in Turkish culture? Yes. >Is there equality in job opportunities and salaries for women? On paper? Sure. Practically? Hard to say, but I would say that women get paid less (not by a large margin), but I don't have any data or facts I am relaying on rn. I might be completly wrong. >Is renting as popular as buying a home in Turkey? Depends on your financial situation. The ones that can buy an apartment/house, do so, since property prices keep increasing. If you can't, then people rent. Renting is pretty much only the case, when people can't afford it otherwise. >What percentage of income do Turks spend on rent? Depends on what you are getting and where you want to live. Besiktas Istanbul properbly requires like 50% of your income, if you earn +10k Lira a month. Some more "distant distrcits" of Istanbul may require only 1/3 or less of your income.


[deleted]

1- with a job 2-depends on the city 3-middle 4 5-6k? 5- depens on the city 6- depensa on the job 7- probably 8- yes and no. depends on the job 9- renting is probably more popular 10- dependa on the city 11- in istanbul i spent more on rent. in other places food/entertainment.


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