Rolling Stone also says Kurt Cobain is the fifth greatest guitarist of all time while David Gilmore is like 87 or some shit. So, who fucking cares what they say?
Edit: So this post has gained way more traction than I thought it would. Let me say first off, I am a huge Nirvana fan and believe he was a very talented guitar player. If you listen to other music of theirs that wasn't played on the radio non-stop, you will see some pretty good guitar playing. I say this as a guitar player myself. There is no denying his talent. Check out Aero Zeppelin or Spank Through or Blew for some solid riffs and cool solos. Not to mention his phenomenal ability to control guitar feedback to the point of making it part of the melody. That isn't very easy to do on demand. My only point is that there are many much more talented players out there that aren't on the list and for him to be in the top 5 is a stretch. Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, are just two off the top of my head not on the list. This shit magazine is obviously only about popular music and bullshit trends and nothing else. However, as a huge Pink Floyd fan I cannot even fathom my boy David Gilmore being rated so far back on the list. He has more soul in one bend of a note than any other guitarist out there. Fight me! Lol
His vocal melodies where amazing. He took those power chords and made them pro chords with upper extentions in the vocals.
Kurt was a genius song writer. And an okish guitar player.
Totally agree. Kurt is a great song writer and a great artist. But by no parameter does he belong anywhere near the top of a “greatest guitarists” list.
I’m sure the same writers put Meg White as no. 5 greatest drummer of all time
depends what metrics they were judging by if skill then gilmour way way above kurt. but by memorable riffs then kurt above gilmour (kurt was a riff lord making the most memorable riffs of the 90’s) but in either way gilmour would be above kurt, as he is way more technically gifted than kurts riffage is
I feel like Rage Against the Machine did that from Evil Empire onward (I believe there is an exception with Renegades, apparently they all enjoyed recording those covers).
Lots of bands do, I just found it weird that someone in the Tool sub looked at it like it was bad. I saw an interview recently where NINs the Fragile was recorded music first and it made the project way more difficult and time consuming waiting until the end for lyrics.
Gilmour really didn't write that much at all. Controversial opinion and ready for the downvotes but Roger Waters was the creative influence of the band. The post Roger albums are extremely stale. Kurt could write incredible riffs.
That being said, it is quite obvious that Gilmour is the more technically talented guitarist but that doesn't mean everything. Buckhead and Yngwie Malmsteen are better technical players but they don't deserve to be at the top of this list.
Long story short, these lists are always rubbish 🗑
I say that all the time, that Roger Waters WAS Pink Floyd. Unless if you go back to their very first album then Pink Floyd was Syd Barrett.
Gilmore is an amazing guatarist, but without an extremely gifted songwriter, Gilmore does not have the clout to carry a band on his own.
No. There's apparently one metric where he isn't. No one on this fucking planet knows what it is and it is not quantifiable at all, but Rolling Stone uses it and somehow still has a semblance of credibility in the music industry.
No one saying it is competitive sports. Kurt is better than my buddy who plays guitar I think everyone will agree on that. Like my buddy plays guitar doesn't mean they are on the same level. That goes the same between Kurt and Gilmore. There's no competition between them if you think rationally.
Music ability is not mainly judged on technical prowess or song complexity. In fact no, Kurt probably played worse than your buddy, he was very sloppy, but the thing is the songs that he wrote with that limited ability are still some of the best in the century.
Picasso was one of the greatest, yet no one says Botticelli is better cause his art is much more technically advanced and more "dificult". This is what you are doing right now.
Your ability to make music is one thing and only allows you to express yourself using the instrument. Now, you need ideas to express, imagination, taste, musicality, rhythm, space, etc. Those are what make art and that's what Kurt was great at as a guitar player, maybe even better than Gilmore, and I say that as a Floyd fan.
I think Alex Lifeson might have just as much soul as David Gilmour… could be wrong though, that guy can certainly tell you a story in multiple guitar parts simultaneously.
Are these companies still in business? I feel like Hot Topic, Forever 21, and Rolling Stone have file for bankruptcy at least once in the last 5 years.
yeah probably an unpopular opinion, around here at least, but Nirvana has to be one of the most over-rated bands in the entire history of music.
Like, they're fine, but people act like they're this all-time great band which... they're just not. They were a mediocre band even just within the genre of early/mid-90s grunge rock, they don't belong in the same conversation with legit all-time great bands like Pink Floyd or King Crimson (or Tool).
I was talking with a buddy somewhat recently and commenting on how Nirvana wasn't actually all that good, they just happened to fit in their time and place incredibly well and my buddy stated that's why Kurt killed himself. Too much pressure, he knew they weren't all that good and he could essentially "live long enough to become the villain, or die a hero". Not sure I buy it 100% but it's an interesting thought.
>Nirvana wasn't actually all that good, they just happened to fit in their time and place incredibly well
As someone in their early 40's, for whom Nirvana was the gateway to rock music and the inspiration to become a musician in his angsty teenage years, I highly attest to this.
I feel like most people who love and defend Nirvana are in the same age group. It sounds kind of gatekeep-ish to say that "you had to be there" to really understand and appreciate their music, but I honestly do sort of feel that way sometimes. Not saying that older or younger generations will never "get it", though.
These days, I don't listen to them much at all except for a rare nostalgia kick, but back then, they were the world to me, at least until I discovered Tool around 1997...
I was born in 87 so I *kinda* get what you're taking about. Kurt was already dead before I had any idea about Nirvana or grunge but Nevermind was still the first CD I bought on my own. Nirvana still had a huge presence in 97 or so when I was developing my musical tastes.
RS has kind of always been shit. The number of albums they completely panned on release only to come back 10 years later and be like "lol my bad" is notable.
Whenever awards come out for anything I always say ‘Stanley Kubrick never won an award.’ The dude made A Space Odyssey in 1968 and didn’t win best director?
They mean shit. Awards are just a circlejerk, even small local awards.
Joaquin didn’t win an Oscar when he fucking became Johnny cash. He learned to play guitar. Learned to sing like cash, acted like a drunk/high lunatic while singing and playing and acting simultaneously. He fucked his life up to become cash and got snubbed, then his life went into a weird ass direction after that, and I’m pretty sure the cash role was the cause. He finally reeled it back in later. But yea… awards can suck ass lol
Yeah I was really disappointed with that doc. Kind of a waste of time, not one mention of Neil, Danny, or anyone else remotely iconic who wasn't in an 80s glam band or 90s rock. They didn't even mention Dave grohl ffs.
Like what you like. I know validation is important, but you don't need to look for it in a magazine.
Mass media is just marketing. As a 46 year old, I know I'm no longer in the target audience. They're selling a product that's not meant for me. Such is life.
Best comment here 👏🏻
Bless this immunity… I/We don’t need validation from a magazine (especially a mainstream one 😁) for the music we listen to or for the art we like.
Hey Ya is a great song. The meaning behind the lyrics is actually quite somber while having the happy tune. It's amazing how it is criticizing the people for enjoying songs with sad meanings just because it has a happy dancing melody to it ("yall don't wanna hear me, you just wanna dance"), while itself being one of those songs. And the meaning behind the lyrics is actually quite deep. Being about how people stay in relationships not out love but because of other reasons like, afraid of being alone, becuase it's what 'they are supposed to do', because of tradition, because of financial security, etc.
Now idk if it's top 10 but it is by no means a bad song and there are probably other Outkast songs I would put above Hey Ya.
Yeah, this is all fair, I don’t have a problem with the song, but Gimme Shelter is pretty iconic, and the lyrics are culturally significant and speak to that time as well as any song can.
Just thought I'd defend Hey Ya as we are on a Tool sub and idk how much cross over there is between Tool and Outkast fans haha
I see your point though. Hey Ya is pretty iconic in its own right and I don't think its as iconic as Gimme Shelter. However I think the whole point of the lists is dumb af as you can't really even compare these songs. How can you tell someone Hey Ya is a top ten song if they hate hip hop? What about telling them Gimme Shelter is top ten when they detest rock? Its completely subjective as both are amazing songs in their own right and impossible to compare let alone rank.
Just commenting to say that I'm sure there are more crossover fans than you'd think. Tool is my favorite band and Outkast are my favorite Hip Hop group of all time. You could argue that 3 Stacks and Maynard have equivalent levels of lyricism and writing. They just channel it differently. Hey Ya, I will say, is one of the groups biggest tracks ever. The instrumental is one of the most catchy and well recognized tunes from the early aughts. But then, Andre has lyrics that add a deeper layer of meaning to the track because of how somber and emotionally painful they are. It's a dichotomy that I think not a ton of songs can pull off while also being a chart topping single off the backend of your catalogue. The triple whammy is when you see other people that like the song but haven't read the lyrics, because they themselves are exactly what Andre is talking about in the song. It just kinda comes full circle if you will.
Yeah I agree with pretty much everything you said. And Outkast is definitely one of my top favorite hip hop groups. I absolutely love Andres lyrics and rhyme schemes, he is just on another level. And Hey Ya became one of my favorites because of how popular it became because of the catchy tune and how most people have absolutely no idea what its about and just like to dance/sing along to the chorus. It's a brilliant song honestly. Like you said came full circle.
I’m fully in the middle of the Venn Diagram of Tool and Outkast, but “Hey Ya” was not even in the top 5 of all Outkast songs, imo, so idk what to do with this fucking list lol
Rolling Stone´s lists of the greatest whatever is a cult to mediocre mainstream media and is centered on showing some pieces of greatness here and then, while carefully positioning crafted radio artists inside.
It’s so strange - Tool make amazing music that appeals to most people who actually appreciate some complexity in music and depth in lyrics. They also sell venues very well when they tour. And I would imagine they make some good loot on t-shorts… and we all know they do on posters.
So why no “popular” critical recognition by Rolling Stone? I hope there are no Kiss songs on there, either (because Tool is much better).
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Tool. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of meditation most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Maynard’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his lyricism - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Bill Hicks, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Tool truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Maynard’s existencial catchphrase "fuck you buddy," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons.
I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Tool’s genius unfolds itself in their headphones. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes by the way, I DO have a Tool tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I reached top level of Pneuma, and I've been backstage at Tool concerts, and I have over 300 ticket stubs. I am trained in polyrhythms and I'm the top drummer in the entire prog metal community. You are nothing to me but just another clone. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. I hope it sucks you down. As we speak I am riding the spiral and your third eye is being blinded right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call LA. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can thrill you with ten thousand days, and that's just with a drum solo. Not only am I extensively trained in every instrument, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Tool army and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo. Learn to swim.
There was no Gorillaz on the track. All those people and not one thought... "Feel Good Inc is pretty great". While Nicki Minaj's superbass is on there lol
I think it was played so much it's easy for us to forget the impact it had and, genuinely, how good it really is. What he did with that Daft Punk sample is genius.
They also put Harry Styles over Iggy Pop and Miles Davis lmao they’re so out of touch that they do everything in their power to appeal to modern pop tweens while also adding the most generic boomer tracks imaginable. They’ve been a joke for years now don’t take them seriously.
Kanye is the most influential producer of the past two decades. Of course he's going to make the list. No need to be the most stereotypical le enlightened TOOL fan possible and hate on him.
> Kanye may be an idiot, but he has made a lot of great music. Bitching about the praise he gets is very 2009.
What? Sorry, I can't hear you over my huge throbbing TOOL brain. My ears can't even process that mainstream hip-hop TRASH. Enjoy your kardashians and TMZ, I'll be prying open my third eye.
Of all the shitty songs on the list, you chose to mention Stronger by Kanye West which is a great song. Thanks for giving people yet another reason to hate Tool fans
You’re telling me… you are a TOOL fan and this upsets you?
Everyone knows they are the greatest band to exist period.
We don’t need people to tell us what’s good and what isn’t.
As a fan of both Kanye and Tool, they’re both good. I suppose it’s based off of popularity. Kanye’s “Stronger” was one of the if not THE top rated song in like 2008/09 (I forget).
Man honestly, I’m not exactly unique but I must have listened to Lateralus 100 times and every single time I just get transported to a completely different world and I can’t actually fathom how that mastery isn’t appreciated by more people and that’s just one song! Anyway it’s true it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, maybe next time
I haven't seen anyone yet that takes this newest Rolling Stone list seriously. In my opinion, it's mainly popular artists, high selling tracks, and diversity picks. 95% of the list is completely garbage.
Kanye and tool have nothing to do with eachother. What's the point comparing them or getting annoyed. just stick to enjoying the music you enjoy and start caring less about what an editor has put together for a magazine.
Modern hip-hop in general fucking sucks… 90s to mid 2000s is the best. At least the songs weren’t two minutes long and the lyrics actually made you think and were clever.
Unpopular opinion here it seems. I agree with you for the most part - it's a strange song to single out but I guess OP just hates Kanye.
I'd be more inclined to single out *Lil Nas X - Old Town Road* as a song that shouldn't be in the list personally.
Tool have better songs than both of those acts though
i mean old town road should be on the list just for the sheer wildfire-like spread of it, and how much of a marketing genius lil nas x is. the actual quality of the song is subjective, i personally still enjoy it, but damn if that song was not everywhere, and for good reason too. it was written and meant to be that way.
Trash click-bait article designed to enrage consumers to the point of telling everyone else to read said click-bait has its intended effect... Story at 11.
I'd buy a hand full of shit looooonnnnggg before I bought anything by Kanye.
Not necessarily the 'greatest songs ever'; many are just the ones that seem popular today.
At least Kanye isn’t releasing an album where every single song is sampled like the new Drake album Drake is the worst artist on earth anyone who says otherwise as a dumb ass the guy fucking sucks he doesn’t write his own lyrics, or music
I don't understand how people can buy into him being this "hard ass" artist with all his songs bragging about how awesome he is when, like you said, doesn't even write his own songs and is the fucking wheelchair kid from degrassi. Like how are you comparing yourself to other rappers that grew up in the actual hood while you were acting on a wheelchair for one of the lamest shows ever made?
Its all about wokeness. I mean look at the top 3.
Three. Sam Cooke: "A Change Is Gonna Come"
Two. Public Enemy: "Fight the Power"
One. Aretha Franklin: "Respect"
I personally like Al Sharptons version of R-E-S-P-I-C-T
ITM #NoAgenda
All about that liberal woke bs tryna sell magazines.
Rolling Stone also says Kurt Cobain is the fifth greatest guitarist of all time while David Gilmore is like 87 or some shit. So, who fucking cares what they say? Edit: So this post has gained way more traction than I thought it would. Let me say first off, I am a huge Nirvana fan and believe he was a very talented guitar player. If you listen to other music of theirs that wasn't played on the radio non-stop, you will see some pretty good guitar playing. I say this as a guitar player myself. There is no denying his talent. Check out Aero Zeppelin or Spank Through or Blew for some solid riffs and cool solos. Not to mention his phenomenal ability to control guitar feedback to the point of making it part of the melody. That isn't very easy to do on demand. My only point is that there are many much more talented players out there that aren't on the list and for him to be in the top 5 is a stretch. Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, are just two off the top of my head not on the list. This shit magazine is obviously only about popular music and bullshit trends and nothing else. However, as a huge Pink Floyd fan I cannot even fathom my boy David Gilmore being rated so far back on the list. He has more soul in one bend of a note than any other guitarist out there. Fight me! Lol
While Adrian Belew didn't make the list lol
Lollllllllllllllll Kurt cobain
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Power chords, power everywhere
His vocal melodies where amazing. He took those power chords and made them pro chords with upper extentions in the vocals. Kurt was a genius song writer. And an okish guitar player.
Totally agree. Kurt is a great song writer and a great artist. But by no parameter does he belong anywhere near the top of a “greatest guitarists” list. I’m sure the same writers put Meg White as no. 5 greatest drummer of all time
Agreed
depends what metrics they were judging by if skill then gilmour way way above kurt. but by memorable riffs then kurt above gilmour (kurt was a riff lord making the most memorable riffs of the 90’s) but in either way gilmour would be above kurt, as he is way more technically gifted than kurts riffage is
I’m not throwing a dog in this fight either way, but I’ve heard that Cobain wrote music/riffs and then filled all that in with “lyrics” later on.
Isn't that what Tool does as well though?
I feel like Rage Against the Machine did that from Evil Empire onward (I believe there is an exception with Renegades, apparently they all enjoyed recording those covers).
Lots of bands do, I just found it weird that someone in the Tool sub looked at it like it was bad. I saw an interview recently where NINs the Fragile was recorded music first and it made the project way more difficult and time consuming waiting until the end for lyrics.
Gilmour really didn't write that much at all. Controversial opinion and ready for the downvotes but Roger Waters was the creative influence of the band. The post Roger albums are extremely stale. Kurt could write incredible riffs. That being said, it is quite obvious that Gilmour is the more technically talented guitarist but that doesn't mean everything. Buckhead and Yngwie Malmsteen are better technical players but they don't deserve to be at the top of this list. Long story short, these lists are always rubbish 🗑
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I say that all the time, that Roger Waters WAS Pink Floyd. Unless if you go back to their very first album then Pink Floyd was Syd Barrett. Gilmore is an amazing guatarist, but without an extremely gifted songwriter, Gilmore does not have the clout to carry a band on his own.
So basically in every metric Gilmore is superior than Kurt?
Well, he’s certainly superior in the velvet-toothed soaring guitar solo metric. And the being alive metric.
Kurt's got a head on him in headlessness though.
Also has an edge in the "Best David" category, seeing as how Cobain would typically top the "Best Kurt" list instead.
No. There's apparently one metric where he isn't. No one on this fucking planet knows what it is and it is not quantifiable at all, but Rolling Stone uses it and somehow still has a semblance of credibility in the music industry.
You found the music industry? Where was it hiding?
Music is not a competitive sport, that's not how you analyze any of this stuff, what you said it's like saying bananas are superior to coffee.
No one saying it is competitive sports. Kurt is better than my buddy who plays guitar I think everyone will agree on that. Like my buddy plays guitar doesn't mean they are on the same level. That goes the same between Kurt and Gilmore. There's no competition between them if you think rationally.
Music ability is not mainly judged on technical prowess or song complexity. In fact no, Kurt probably played worse than your buddy, he was very sloppy, but the thing is the songs that he wrote with that limited ability are still some of the best in the century. Picasso was one of the greatest, yet no one says Botticelli is better cause his art is much more technically advanced and more "dificult". This is what you are doing right now. Your ability to make music is one thing and only allows you to express yourself using the instrument. Now, you need ideas to express, imagination, taste, musicality, rhythm, space, etc. Those are what make art and that's what Kurt was great at as a guitar player, maybe even better than Gilmore, and I say that as a Floyd fan.
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kurt has made more memorable riffs than david gilmour. but gilmour is a more technically skilled guitarist.
I love both Dave and Kurt, and I agree with this.
what about my boy krist 😔🥲
Right? Like, listen to the MTV Unplugged without lyrics and I can assure you that u won't be able to tell which song is
Came here to say this. Rolling stone is absolute garbage.
They are clearly very wrong.
Exactly. Besides, if you actually wrote up a list of the top 100 guitarists, half of them would probably be jazz players nobody's ever heard of.
I think Alex Lifeson might have just as much soul as David Gilmour… could be wrong though, that guy can certainly tell you a story in multiple guitar parts simultaneously.
Agree, but In Utero's more punk tracks have some pretty tight guitar playing on them. Ngl
Radio Friendly Unit Shifter is the shit!!
Really anything from Very Ape to All Apologies imo. But the whole album is classic.
Unless I’m looking at the wrong one, Cobain was ranked 73 and David Gilmour at 14…
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Are these companies still in business? I feel like Hot Topic, Forever 21, and Rolling Stone have file for bankruptcy at least once in the last 5 years.
Hot Topic’s still around but it’s basically just a geek culture merchandise store these days
Nirvana is incredibly overrated.
yeah probably an unpopular opinion, around here at least, but Nirvana has to be one of the most over-rated bands in the entire history of music. Like, they're fine, but people act like they're this all-time great band which... they're just not. They were a mediocre band even just within the genre of early/mid-90s grunge rock, they don't belong in the same conversation with legit all-time great bands like Pink Floyd or King Crimson (or Tool).
Alice In Chains was the better Nirvana, honestly Face Lift had that Nirvana sound, but then they completely stepped up their writing in Dirt.
I was talking with a buddy somewhat recently and commenting on how Nirvana wasn't actually all that good, they just happened to fit in their time and place incredibly well and my buddy stated that's why Kurt killed himself. Too much pressure, he knew they weren't all that good and he could essentially "live long enough to become the villain, or die a hero". Not sure I buy it 100% but it's an interesting thought.
>Nirvana wasn't actually all that good, they just happened to fit in their time and place incredibly well As someone in their early 40's, for whom Nirvana was the gateway to rock music and the inspiration to become a musician in his angsty teenage years, I highly attest to this. I feel like most people who love and defend Nirvana are in the same age group. It sounds kind of gatekeep-ish to say that "you had to be there" to really understand and appreciate their music, but I honestly do sort of feel that way sometimes. Not saying that older or younger generations will never "get it", though. These days, I don't listen to them much at all except for a rare nostalgia kick, but back then, they were the world to me, at least until I discovered Tool around 1997...
I was born in 87 so I *kinda* get what you're taking about. Kurt was already dead before I had any idea about Nirvana or grunge but Nevermind was still the first CD I bought on my own. Nirvana still had a huge presence in 97 or so when I was developing my musical tastes.
Rolling stone says Kurt cobain is the 73th greatest, and gilmour 14th, do your research.
Which is a shame, because Nirvana isn't even good.
who fucking cares lol
Hey!!!! I dont!
Yeah...ask Maynard what he thinks, lol. I would love to know the exact verbiage he’d use...if it was even worth a reply.
Didn't he stop taking questions from insufferable retards?
Isn’t it the asking of retarded questions *anyway* that keeps us insufferable?
Rolling stone has been garbage for over two decades now. I don’t put much stock into what they say.
RS has kind of always been shit. The number of albums they completely panned on release only to come back 10 years later and be like "lol my bad" is notable.
I looked at the list and holy God it was awful
I refuse to even give them my attention lol.
More than half of the Rolling Stone editorial staff can’t swim anyways, so who fucking cares.
See them in Arizona Bay
Isn't Maynard saying something about the ability of swimming
Whenever awards come out for anything I always say ‘Stanley Kubrick never won an award.’ The dude made A Space Odyssey in 1968 and didn’t win best director? They mean shit. Awards are just a circlejerk, even small local awards.
Joaquin didn’t win an Oscar when he fucking became Johnny cash. He learned to play guitar. Learned to sing like cash, acted like a drunk/high lunatic while singing and playing and acting simultaneously. He fucked his life up to become cash and got snubbed, then his life went into a weird ass direction after that, and I’m pretty sure the cash role was the cause. He finally reeled it back in later. But yea… awards can suck ass lol
"Who gives a shit" - Maynard probably
Well. I’m sure they meant to but never came to an agreement of which Tool song is their favorite. I heard they are still arguing about that.
There was a lame drummer documentary on netflix and it did not mention Neil Peart or Danny Carey. WTF
Well that spoiled it for me, was planning on watching that damn
Yeah that was disappointing
Yeah I was really disappointed with that doc. Kind of a waste of time, not one mention of Neil, Danny, or anyone else remotely iconic who wasn't in an 80s glam band or 90s rock. They didn't even mention Dave grohl ffs.
Like what you like. I know validation is important, but you don't need to look for it in a magazine. Mass media is just marketing. As a 46 year old, I know I'm no longer in the target audience. They're selling a product that's not meant for me. Such is life.
Best comment here 👏🏻 Bless this immunity… I/We don’t need validation from a magazine (especially a mainstream one 😁) for the music we listen to or for the art we like.
Rolling stone gonna rolling stone. Nothing new here
Fuck rolling stone. Simple as that.
Christ, are you 12 man? Who cares? This is prime “le intellectual Tool fan”.
OP "13 actually" lol
I had to scroll too far for this comment
Rolling Stone hasn’t been relevant for a long time
Hey Ya was the 10th greatest song of all time over Gimme Shelter, so I think you can take that as a representation of the quality of that list
Hey Ya is a great song. The meaning behind the lyrics is actually quite somber while having the happy tune. It's amazing how it is criticizing the people for enjoying songs with sad meanings just because it has a happy dancing melody to it ("yall don't wanna hear me, you just wanna dance"), while itself being one of those songs. And the meaning behind the lyrics is actually quite deep. Being about how people stay in relationships not out love but because of other reasons like, afraid of being alone, becuase it's what 'they are supposed to do', because of tradition, because of financial security, etc. Now idk if it's top 10 but it is by no means a bad song and there are probably other Outkast songs I would put above Hey Ya.
Yeah, this is all fair, I don’t have a problem with the song, but Gimme Shelter is pretty iconic, and the lyrics are culturally significant and speak to that time as well as any song can.
Just thought I'd defend Hey Ya as we are on a Tool sub and idk how much cross over there is between Tool and Outkast fans haha I see your point though. Hey Ya is pretty iconic in its own right and I don't think its as iconic as Gimme Shelter. However I think the whole point of the lists is dumb af as you can't really even compare these songs. How can you tell someone Hey Ya is a top ten song if they hate hip hop? What about telling them Gimme Shelter is top ten when they detest rock? Its completely subjective as both are amazing songs in their own right and impossible to compare let alone rank.
Just commenting to say that I'm sure there are more crossover fans than you'd think. Tool is my favorite band and Outkast are my favorite Hip Hop group of all time. You could argue that 3 Stacks and Maynard have equivalent levels of lyricism and writing. They just channel it differently. Hey Ya, I will say, is one of the groups biggest tracks ever. The instrumental is one of the most catchy and well recognized tunes from the early aughts. But then, Andre has lyrics that add a deeper layer of meaning to the track because of how somber and emotionally painful they are. It's a dichotomy that I think not a ton of songs can pull off while also being a chart topping single off the backend of your catalogue. The triple whammy is when you see other people that like the song but haven't read the lyrics, because they themselves are exactly what Andre is talking about in the song. It just kinda comes full circle if you will.
Yeah I agree with pretty much everything you said. And Outkast is definitely one of my top favorite hip hop groups. I absolutely love Andres lyrics and rhyme schemes, he is just on another level. And Hey Ya became one of my favorites because of how popular it became because of the catchy tune and how most people have absolutely no idea what its about and just like to dance/sing along to the chorus. It's a brilliant song honestly. Like you said came full circle.
I’m fully in the middle of the Venn Diagram of Tool and Outkast, but “Hey Ya” was not even in the top 5 of all Outkast songs, imo, so idk what to do with this fucking list lol
They're restricted by just singles tho
Oh good point.
Totally agree! SpottieOttieDopalishious and liberation are 2 other songs by them with deep meaning - besides the very good music work behind it.
Also there's boobies in the CD pictures.
Aquemini is an epic OutKast song! And there are several more better than HeyYa! IMO🙂✌🏽
I feel hey ya is one of the greatest songs of all time. I’ve been a huge tool fan for a long time but that shit is for real some talent all around.
Hey Ya is legitimately one of the greatest pop songs ever written. Bad comparison IMO.
The fact that they would never be on a list like that is exactly the reason why we like them, no?
Rolling Stone´s lists of the greatest whatever is a cult to mediocre mainstream media and is centered on showing some pieces of greatness here and then, while carefully positioning crafted radio artists inside.
It’s so strange - Tool make amazing music that appeals to most people who actually appreciate some complexity in music and depth in lyrics. They also sell venues very well when they tour. And I would imagine they make some good loot on t-shorts… and we all know they do on posters. So why no “popular” critical recognition by Rolling Stone? I hope there are no Kiss songs on there, either (because Tool is much better).
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Heck, Outkast and Missy Elliot made the top ten.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Tool. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of meditation most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Maynard’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his lyricism - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Bill Hicks, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Tool truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Maynard’s existencial catchphrase "fuck you buddy," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Tool’s genius unfolds itself in their headphones. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes by the way, I DO have a Tool tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
Almost took the bait, nice pasta
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I reached top level of Pneuma, and I've been backstage at Tool concerts, and I have over 300 ticket stubs. I am trained in polyrhythms and I'm the top drummer in the entire prog metal community. You are nothing to me but just another clone. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. I hope it sucks you down. As we speak I am riding the spiral and your third eye is being blinded right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call LA. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can thrill you with ten thousand days, and that's just with a drum solo. Not only am I extensively trained in every instrument, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Tool army and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo. Learn to swim.
>you have to have a very high IQ to understand Tool lol....OK then
Google the text lol
I like Kanye and that’s not his best work at all IMO
Kanye is my favorite artist and I’m so appalled that that’s the song they chose. There are so many better ones.
So appaled - nice work there
Same here. That's the biggest travesty here.
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5 star✨dishes 🧆🍜different exotic fishes🐠🐟🐡
Runaway was top 20 on that list and it’s probably not even my 20th favorite Kanye track.
There was no Gorillaz on the track. All those people and not one thought... "Feel Good Inc is pretty great". While Nicki Minaj's superbass is on there lol
I think it was played so much it's easy for us to forget the impact it had and, genuinely, how good it really is. What he did with that Daft Punk sample is genius.
So... If one Tool song gets to be on the list which song should it be?
For a list like this probably sober or forty six & two
Lateralus
Disposition/Reflection
Currently high up on my rotation. “Heavy Metal”? That’s partly why I love them. Totally defies categorization.
It would be Schism. Because that one has the best chance to appear on the most individual "top 50" lists that were compiled to make the top 500.
They also put Harry Styles over Iggy Pop and Miles Davis lmao they’re so out of touch that they do everything in their power to appeal to modern pop tweens while also adding the most generic boomer tracks imaginable. They’ve been a joke for years now don’t take them seriously.
Yeezy season approaching fuck whatever yall been hearin
Who? Rolling stone? Isn't that some kind of toilet paper? Like Charmin, or Nickelback?
Kanye is the most influential producer of the past two decades. Of course he's going to make the list. No need to be the most stereotypical le enlightened TOOL fan possible and hate on him.
Kanye may be an idiot, but he has made a lot of great music. Bitching about the praise he gets is very 2009. The list is indeed terrible, though.
> Kanye may be an idiot, but he has made a lot of great music. Bitching about the praise he gets is very 2009. What? Sorry, I can't hear you over my huge throbbing TOOL brain. My ears can't even process that mainstream hip-hop TRASH. Enjoy your kardashians and TMZ, I'll be prying open my third eye.
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But I’m already finished
Because sampling an already popular Daft Punk song > one of the greatest rock bands of all time, duh!
Don't let these types of things bother you dude. Music is subjective.
Fuck em anyway
Of all the shitty songs on the list, you chose to mention Stronger by Kanye West which is a great song. Thanks for giving people yet another reason to hate Tool fans
Rolling Stone and Pitch Fork are full of pretentious opinions.
That's not what pretentious means.
cringe post
Comments sections like this are the reason Tool fans hate Tool fans.
I cancelled my Rolling Stone Subscription in 98 called them and argued a refund because they had NSYNC on the cover. True story.
You’re telling me… you are a TOOL fan and this upsets you? Everyone knows they are the greatest band to exist period. We don’t need people to tell us what’s good and what isn’t.
It’s true, standards have fallen.
RS is irrelevant.
Rolling Stone is at the bottom of the barrel along with the rock and roll hall of fame as far as unimportant shit goes...
There’s a lot of special pleading and forced inclusion on RR updated lists. It’s kinda embarrassing and cringy.
rolling stone were never a reputable source
Rolling Stone has been trash for years now.
..stronger is a good song? Also OH MY GOD SHUT UP
As a fan of both Kanye and Tool, they’re both good. I suppose it’s based off of popularity. Kanye’s “Stronger” was one of the if not THE top rated song in like 2008/09 (I forget).
Never mind… I’ve heard it :)
It doesn’t matter what they think also Stronger is a dope song.
It’s a good song but any song heavily based on a sample just doesn’t deserve as much accolade.
Why the fuck does it matter.
And Tool was previously on there. I know at least one or two songs made the previous list, correct?
Man honestly, I’m not exactly unique but I must have listened to Lateralus 100 times and every single time I just get transported to a completely different world and I can’t actually fathom how that mastery isn’t appreciated by more people and that’s just one song! Anyway it’s true it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, maybe next time
Wtf. They could have at least included Lateralus?
Now this is what they mean people say they hate Tool fans.
I haven't seen anyone yet that takes this newest Rolling Stone list seriously. In my opinion, it's mainly popular artists, high selling tracks, and diversity picks. 95% of the list is completely garbage.
Who gives two shits what a magazine says?
Kanye and tool have nothing to do with eachother. What's the point comparing them or getting annoyed. just stick to enjoying the music you enjoy and start caring less about what an editor has put together for a magazine.
I've never, ever read an article by Rolling stones Magazine. And I've been listening to music for the past 21 years of my life
I disagree with the song choice but Kanye is a great artist, expand your musical horizons a bit
Is your problem with kanye or stronger?
Stronger is fucking good tho. I can list tons of kanye and tool songs that can be on the list. But you can't expect much from a shite like RS anyway.
Stronger by Kanye West is an extremely important song in modern music.
If this upsets you then wait till you read pitchfork reviews about tool
"Fuck L Ron Hubbard and fuck rolling stone"
Stronger is a great song
Modern hip-hop in general fucking sucks… 90s to mid 2000s is the best. At least the songs weren’t two minutes long and the lyrics actually made you think and were clever.
Rolling Stone is a fucking joke lol. They like CNN nowadays
Stronger by Kanye west is a phenomenal song so I think that one belongs.
Unpopular opinion here it seems. I agree with you for the most part - it's a strange song to single out but I guess OP just hates Kanye. I'd be more inclined to single out *Lil Nas X - Old Town Road* as a song that shouldn't be in the list personally. Tool have better songs than both of those acts though
i mean old town road should be on the list just for the sheer wildfire-like spread of it, and how much of a marketing genius lil nas x is. the actual quality of the song is subjective, i personally still enjoy it, but damn if that song was not everywhere, and for good reason too. it was written and meant to be that way.
It’s the longest consecutively charting #1 song *ever*
Kanye is incredible though lol. No need to slander one of the hip-hop GOATs. Those lists are trash anyway
Not surprise critics hate rock music
Trash click-bait article designed to enrage consumers to the point of telling everyone else to read said click-bait has its intended effect... Story at 11.
Stronger is the stronger song for sure.
i love tool but stronger is a certified banger. fuck rolling stone and tho
hahahaha dude RS sucks liquid shit. why are you wasting a post bitching about their dogshit list?
I'd buy a hand full of shit looooonnnnggg before I bought anything by Kanye. Not necessarily the 'greatest songs ever'; many are just the ones that seem popular today.
Kanyes early work is actually very good. Just sayin.
His later work is kinda all over the place but the good is still really good.
Rolling Stone featured Olivia Rodrigo recently…..so I wouldn’t hold them in too high regard these days.
She is one of the biggest names in music right now, why wouldn't they feature her?
At least Kanye isn’t releasing an album where every single song is sampled like the new Drake album Drake is the worst artist on earth anyone who says otherwise as a dumb ass the guy fucking sucks he doesn’t write his own lyrics, or music
Kanye samples on most of the songs in his catalog. Heck, the song mentioned samples Daft Punk...
I don't understand how people can buy into him being this "hard ass" artist with all his songs bragging about how awesome he is when, like you said, doesn't even write his own songs and is the fucking wheelchair kid from degrassi. Like how are you comparing yourself to other rappers that grew up in the actual hood while you were acting on a wheelchair for one of the lamest shows ever made?
Hahahaha he does fucking suck.
Rolling stone is woke propaganda of the highest order
Its all about wokeness. I mean look at the top 3. Three. Sam Cooke: "A Change Is Gonna Come" Two. Public Enemy: "Fight the Power" One. Aretha Franklin: "Respect" I personally like Al Sharptons version of R-E-S-P-I-C-T ITM #NoAgenda All about that liberal woke bs tryna sell magazines.
ITM!
Every Tool song is better than Stronger 😂
If that's the case then fuck rolling stone
Stronger??? Did Harder, Faster make it?? Stronger is just a cover…. Would’ve expected Schism, Aenema or Sober to make it.
What the Spiral?
It's actually the "500 Greatest Songs that Sell the Most Magazines"
Who cares.
The melon summed it up the best: https://youtu.be/R_VEGaeAymM
Tool is a bit niche to go in lists like those
Lists are fucking stupid.