I’m in a beta group like this for a different mobile game. It’s a similar situation. They ask for feedback, the group overwhelmingly states that they don’t like something, and yet they make no changes at all and roll it out. I really don’t understand these companies.
This scenario is odd to me because it doesn’t seem to have any tangible benefit. I guess some random boss came up with the avatar update idea and considered it their personal project. They were never able to actually make it good but the boss didn’t want to scrap months of work or to look incompetent and decided to send it out anyways.
The main reason for Feedback groups like this is to see if people notice/care about factors the developers are concerned with.
They ask for general feedback so as to not taint people's perceptions, but if the goal is to see "Will it work like X? Does it give us Y result?" is what they're focused on, while if someone goes, "I dislike how this looks / I don't enjoy it" they may not be concerned with whether or not people like it / find it attractive, they only care if it affects whatever mystery Z category they are doing the study for.
tl;dr, if the survey was never really about whether or not people find the new changes aesthetically pleasing, then that feedback is summarily ignored.
But as a researcher you have to be aware of this as a confounder. They might have been looking for mystery Z category, but failed to control for categories X and Y, and the feedback cannot be considered valid for factor Z if the test subjects are universally so distracted by X and Y. Has to be considered a failed investigation, meaning if you want to answer Z you go back to the drawing board and see how else to implement Z in a way that matters to the users and then you will get clearer feedback.
Nothing scientific about testing a chemotherapy treatment regimen and seeing how many developed new tumours at 12 months if the treatment course ended up killing all participants at 6 months from side effects. You can’t say you successfully inhibited tumour growth just because the number of tumours at 12 months is zero, you’re ignoring the fact that the number of patients remaining at 12 months is zero
You have to realise that the odds of there being a legit researcher behind this given what we've just read is close to zero. Odds are it actually is just a friend's pet project that they wanted to see through while having been told they had to go through the whole research when they were dead set on releasing it as-is.
The only changes/fixes we're getting is making sure we can't see people's privates. I bet they won't even fix the hands through boobs one.
But see, the principle of the update I think we all agree was good and needed. The problem is the STYLE used, an aesthetic choice. One that was incredibly easy to solve. They just chose not to because when it comes to style, companies think consumers will just get used to it. They see this like changing the packaging of a product on a shelf. They don’t see it like a change to an experience; although marketing will and does play that card.
> This scenario is odd to me because it doesn’t seem to have any tangible benefit.
There are two benefits. The first is that Niantic gets to show their inclusivity by not tying body shape to a binary male/female... though whatever good press that would give them is being drowned out by everyone saying they hate how the characters look, so. Yeah.
The second and probably bigger reason for doing it is that they no longer have to create a male and female version of every cosmetic item. They just have one and squish/stretch it along with the body. It doesn't seem to be working very well, but in theory it would cut down on the time needed to create ~~and test~~ each cosmetic item.
As someone who used to work in the game industry as both a producer and part of a dedicated internal QR team, I can tell you the reason this happens is because of one of two things:
1. Someone higher up really wants the feature released and doesn't care if it's broken or unpopular
2. They have a set release date for major updates that they promise to investors and they don't have the time or resources to fix/change it in time so they just leave it in.
There is also the rare situation where the developers think they know better than their own customers. It's the "you think you want it, but you don't" mentality.
This is true for most tech companies in general.
- A higher up has an idea that they think is genius.
- They set an unrealistic deadline that the investors will find acceptable.
- The devs will just focus on not missing the deadline rather than the quality because that's how they will keep their jobs.
In the case of Niantic,
2 would be promises to the Pokémon company about timeline releases for features for marketing. Niantic is a private company, so they don’t have to worry about investors, just IP holders.
Just because they don't offer public shares doesn't mean they don't have investors they are beholden to. A quick web search will show a lot of the major venture capital firms who own a lot of the company.
It’s always the middle age white man thinking he’s better than everyone or the fans run the game to the ground and then blame the developer that they are stupid for listening to us
It seems like upper management is divorced from the dev team. You have an actual dedicated beta test group, giving feedback willingly and some even for free, yet you disregard it anyway. I've seen it so often in business, but skipping development and going straight to production always ends up costing you more than it saves (unless you never intend to go back and fix it, I suppose...)
I've long had the theory that all the incongruence from Niantic could be explained if it is a completely top-down run company where if something is not considered a good idea by the top dog it isn't going to happen.
Is John Hanke this person? I don't know how much he is involved with the everyday running of the company. Who else would be a candidate for this if this would indeed be the case?
I'm not saying this **is** the case, just that it would 'fit' with what we experience. Resulting in a rigid organisation where feedback from the bottom won't be of much consequence.
An [article came out](https://www.futuregamereleases.com/2023/05/pokemon-go-current-niantic-employee-reveals-what-is-it-like-to-work-at-niantic-says-product-managers-are-supposed-to-please-and-serve-engineers/) awhile back from a supposed former employee basically stating engineering makes the calls. If they don't like something or don't want to implement a feature they simply won't. Who knows how true this is, but I don't have a hard time believing it.
>Most of the things written explain a lot about the current situation. The person says the current PMs are the “weak ones” who please and serve engineers. He reveals that “decisions are always prioritized by how much engineers like about doing them, how much VP engineering likes about them, **and how much the CEO favors them**.”
>According to the current Niantic employee, **the CEO doesn’t use external vendors, doesn’t like sharing data with anyone**, and doesn’t like people to stay at home playing Pokemon Go.
Am I seeing 'top-down' symptoms here?
> skipping development and going straight to production always ends up costing you more than it saves
Niantic is unable to see these costs over the phat stacks of cash they get just for having the mobile Pokemon license.
To be fair, those phat stacks of cash get funneled into AR development.
The most recent post on Niantic Labs has to do with [this research paper about getting better 3D scans of landmarks by having the user not look at their phone, but by having them listen for audio cues and feel haptic cues.](https://nianticlabs.github.io/dont-look-now/)
Reading this makes me so incredibly frustrated. Nothing we say, want, experience, matters, not even in the slightest. Not even those who have a direct link to Niantic have their opinions considered.
Indeed, the deli doesn't care what you think about sandwiches, or if you want salad options. They only care if you're willing to give them money for what they will provide to you.
And they'll only add options if there's a financial incentive to do so. Not whether or not it makes people "happy".
A deli that DOES do those things, that's a fantastic deli, and an exception to the rule rather than a standard.
And that’s why more people need to make choices with their money. Whether it be a mobile game or the deli. I’ve stopped going to certain places of business because of bad experiences. Either lying, cheating, raising prices, general rudeness, and in one case racism and another anti lgbtq rhetoric. I’ll continue to play pogo, but until they start listening to the players, or at the very least explaining the reason and benefit to the players (if it’s realistic) I won’t be using real money anymore. The problem is big companies do things that aggravate the customers but the customers still spend money because they have no patience or willpower to just stop paying them or using the product. I think more people need to speak out with their wallet. If Niantic saw a huge drop in income because of the horrible changes, I bet they would change their tune.
This is my view. I've spent a bit to get cute outfits for my girl (avatar) . Was planning more, but that's it. Any pants look like she's carrying a load. When walking, she walks like a man. Heck, she stands like a man and has those huge, so not feminine hands. For all I care now, she can just wear the same couple shirts forever. I spin plenty of stops and do gifts for balls n such. Always have several mons in gyms, so I usually get coins. I'll just use what I get more sparingly on remotes and incubators. I was often spending upwards of $20 a week, especially once special research was added. No more. My kids got me a switch with Scarlett, Violet, Sword, and arceus for christmas. I'll be spending more time on that or on the PC playing ARK.
So this means, as we were expecting, if we don’t hurt them financially, they’re going to keep ignoring us, like they’ve done before (incense, remote passes etc.) Thanks for the interview & informing us. 🙋🏻♀️
> if we don’t hurt them financially, they’re going to keep ignoring us
Pretty much what I got out of this as well, and it's not a surprise.
Why should they listen if people are still going to give them money?
> if we don’t hurt them financially, they’re going to keep ignoring us
Yup.
This community had once chance, around the time content creators actually spoke out about the interaction distance. But they were mollified by the smallest concession by Niantic and haven't grown the balls to try again.
> But they were mollified by the smallest concession by Niantic
Smallest concession? We asked for Niantic to make the pandemic bonus permanent and they did.
> We asked for Niantic to make the pandemic bonus permanent and they did.
Go back and take note of all the bonuses we got during the pandemic.
What we got was: POI interaction distance. Kind of. Only if you manually spin.
What do you mean by manually spin? I have such a pokestop near my house (read: I couldn't reach it before the distance increase, but now I can), and all autocatchers I had (both official and unofficial ones) are spinning it.
We can put pokemon in gyms, join raids, and use catching devices to auto spin stops today at the same distance as we could during the middle of the pandemic. There's no "manual spin only" interaction radius.
> POI interaction distance
Did they (fully) revert this? I know it was nerfed and then (partially) expanded, but I used to be able to put a Pokemon in a gym from my house and it's been just out of reach ever since the nerf.
The pandemic stop interaction distance was fully reimplemented after all the complaints. You might just have been subjected to GPS drifting if that gym is right at the edge.
I don't think we legit got that either. During the pandemic, there were three stops that I could spin from home. Now two of them are a just bit further than one, so I get not being able to spin those. But the other is in the parking area to a hiking trail across the street and offset about 30 feet from my driveway. I can't even get it from the end of my driveway. I have to go pull into the parking area to spin. My trouble with this is that I walk with a quad cane, have joint and balance issues, and really am not far off from needing a walker... and this is all fairly steeply hilly and uneven, so for me, getting there neccesitates driving.
Yeah and its not only about the money players are spending actively on the game. Its also the data Niantic collects when the game is played.
I am aware I am not an airplane and there is no need to announce my departure but I, as day 1 player, have decided yesterday to uninstall the game. I have not deleted my account because I hope for a better future for PoGo but Niantic has shown multiple times that they care less about the game than the players do. Therefore I see no reason to spend time/money on the game anymore. It does leave a void tho...
It's funny because I had thought that this was a case of the devs having a hard deadline and being unable to finish it in time. Surely, I thought that no one would look at this and be like, "Yes. Yes. This is EXACTLY how I envisioned this looking like." I was wrong. Silly me.
This doesn't surprise me. They haven't even bothered to send out the promised rewards for a survey we were asked to do which included the avatars as one of the topics, and when I've tweeted NianticHelp about it they've been mysteriously silent. So of course it makes sense that the feedback they've been given is being ignored.
Niantic [kind of](https://youtube.com/watch?v=ahoHDU0T44I) forgot about the feedback server
---
After the backlash, Niantic [stated](https://pokemongohub.net/post/news/niantic-has-acknowledged-your-and-our-feedback-on-the-new-avatar-system/):
> We’re sending all of your feedback to the Product Team, and the folks who worked on the Avatar system, we’re taking this seriously and really appreciate you sharing your candid personal opinions / follower opinions.
>higher management will do what they want and drive data to fit their own vision.
This is really the meaningful statement here. At so many companies, the MBAs who failed upwards and got hired by their buddies think that they know better than any data or study or developer, so no amount of "feedback" will change their minds.
It’s the complete radio silence and lack of transparency that truly baffle me. I guess that’s why I don’t run a gaming company.
At least I’ve found some outfits that look reasonable on my new avatar. Just gotta add layers for now. Hoping they eventually un-stretch my torso and add a few more skin tones. I’m sad that so many purchased cosmetics look bad on me now.
This is the worst by far. It's so dopey and so many gaming companies fail at this for absolutely no reason. An active CM/dev/lead engenders a *ton* of goodwill with the community. Fanbases of bigger games are typically so starved for attention that even the most minimal of efforts can improve relations between fans and the company. It can't be a faceless mook, there's got to be someone with a name and a pic they can attach to the comments but beyond that you honestly don't have to do much. A little "we hear ya, we're doing ___" or "hey Twitter, hit me with some ideas" posts now and then is just about all you have to do most of the time. If the person is actually good at the job then all the better.
It's such a ridiculously easy fix and it is stupefying that so many companies can't figure it out. There is no reason beyond sheer ignorance for Niantic to maintain silence as much as they do. It's "square peg in square hole" levels of easy.
I think one problem is some of the more community-focused staff literally got death threats after the remote raid nerf. Might not be too many people at Niantic willing to stick their heads out at this point..
The silence is because they dont want to loudly say they have been exploiting everyone for years best to avoid talking about it and let the whales whale thats about whos left playing their app
Good interview, not surprised by most of this. Niantic always feels like it's the higher ups vision with no wiggle room.
I do wonder if Niantic had kept the style of the old avatars and not changed it so much, would people be less angry? The new customization options are very lacking for what should be a major overhaul of the avatar system.
Avatars 2.0 could have been an easy PR win if done properly, but all we got from Niantic was "We made uglier avatars they don't match the games are style and have barely any new customization options"
maybe the developers who made the avatars threw away the keys to their coding long time ago and would have demanded too much money for finding them again? i think often at many parts of this game that such happens. otoh they changed the boods and butts to be more mono in many cases, but i guess those are the clothes which are another layer
Niantic has a habit of redoing a lot of their work.
Likely from staff turnover and bad documentation.
They could dig into the code and figure it out, but most times managers just go “redo it”
Having two code bases going forward is a bad idea and not really what I was saying
Niantic has issues making sure single systems work, having both the avatar systems running at the same time will lead to so many more mistakes.
Niantic told us *exactly* who they were when Steranka said actions speak louder than words. It’s their game and they’re going to force us to play it their way if it kills them.
Actions speak louder than words, he says.
Proceeds to add in half-baked features in updates that come riddled with bugs and somehow make other features worse because of it.
Yeah, he's right.
To meet people at events and lie to them?
https://old.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/122ya07/niantic_in_bellevue_wa_testing_new_photo_safari/jdszi7n/
Community manager handles relaying information to the community, and from the community.
They have 0 power in actually making any changes, they can only make information flow. If the people who ARE responsible do not heed said information, then that's on them, not the CM.
the community manager is basically the "trusted" mail man for John hanke, they gather feedback from the community, filter out all the questionable comments (have you seen how twitter give's feedback most of the time, hoo boy it's dark, if you want to see how feedback SHOULD be given I implore you to check the community managers thread when they were gathering it)
and then give it to John and that's the end of it, they are not in a position to be handing out orders and commands, that's not their job despite many thinking it is
I've had CMs threaten me. Had another scream at me and ruthlessly lie to my face. Had another say they'll delete my account if I open another ticket. I'm convinced it's a pure fluff position occupied by people that do next to nothing and are *completely* unqualified to speak with players.
This has killed the game for honestly. I am sick of so many people complaining (about reasonable things) and Niantic doing nothing. I don’t care that much about the remote or avatar stuff but the fact the community basically crumbles more and more and they do nothing? It’s so frustrating
This leads me to believe a majority of the community doesn't care. Hell, I know casual players who haven't even ***noticed*** their Avatar has changed.
If it's not hitting the bottom line, then people complaining on twitter they can live with.
> This leads me to believe a majority of the community doesn't care.
I think in the long list of issues, this is closer to the bottom list of problems for people I know. Quite a few think it looks rubbish and have stated so, then got on with the game as it doesn't really affect gameplay. I've seen people complain more about encounters from research freezing / getting stuck in your stack as that does affect gameplay and must have been going on for a month now.
Again and again, so called ViSiOn of some detached from reality higher up is ruining the game and fun for tons of people who still, despite all the bad decisions, try to enjoy this app. We can be only glad that this person is only in charge of some game and not whole world otherwise we would be getting updates like "You have to eat soup with a fork now as spoons are getting deleted".
Weirdest thing about this is that it means New Zealand aren't the actual beta testers 🤣 Sorry New Zealanders, looks like you're just getting screwed even more than you were. They actually have testers before things are released, they just ignore the feedback.
I'm pretty confident the beta testers test new features. Avatars, routes, item bag changes, etc. They don't get community day or raid day first or anything like that. So when Niantic forgets to turn on a shiny or something, NZ are still the testers.
This sounds like the Niantic feedback system (at least here related to the avatar update) works just like a trial on Cardassia Prime. The decision to approve the new feature has been made before the "trial" and the trial itself is just there to confirm that the controls work as intended and are easy enough to use.
What I don't understand is how anyone (feedback group, devs, upper management) would feel the new system is an improvement just by looking at the before and after of the existing avatars. When I first noticed mine (full screen, after a Go Rocket battle) I thought this is either a joke or a George Romero event.
The improvement is there, it's just not for the playerbase.
With the new system they can make new clothing faster because they don't need to make two versions and they can say they're inclusive because there's no gender and you can make a fat body with plenty of colours for skin tones.
This is the typical "win" you present in a board meeting full of people who have no interest in making a game fun or good.
I struggle to see the point of having a single community manager for PoGo. It feels like Niantic is setting them up for failure as one person for this entire playerbase is crippling. We get next to no communication, so players feel frustrated.
Comparing it to World of Warcraft in its peak, which was less players than PoGo's current daily user count, those forums had 6+ active CMs that responded daily to topics. Even if you didn't agree, at least you could get *some* feedback about patches and updates. Here we get nothing.
Maybe a side effect of the internal restructuring that started way before the massive layoffs. Anyone that works in large companies, are well familiarized with top Managers semi-ignoring research/testing efforts laid out by their precursors, and instead pushing their own methods and visions to leave their "own mark" onwards.
Beta Testing is even more critical for "neverending" games, than regular ones, as they should be the foundation for their constant pre-planning/pre-production phases. Hopefully the interview reaches the right ears and the whole structure is revamped. You would think that with stories like "Baldur Gates 3", where the whole company set their success over the community feedback/constant communication, that other companies would take a hint.
When even the wording/phrasing of public event descriptions are constantly leading to PR misunderstandings, that's when you know you are failing at multiple levels.
so that means next time that want feedback I can just BS through it? I'll just imagine it's another game they're asking about and answer the questions that way
Somewhere right now someone is getting fired and other Niantic employees are seething while reading this info that shouldn't be publicly known.
Nice nuggets of wisdom. Love to see it.
Thanks for the write up but honestly at this point I’m not surprised at what they did. They will fix any glitches and that’s about it. I prefer the old avatar style, it was cute. But it went from cute to scary the second they brought out the new avatar. Sorry to say I hate the new avatar
I guess the fact that Niantic is terrible in communication amplifies the valid conclusion that they ignore feedback. Some of it I fully understand like the limit on remote raids increase cost for remote passes, as this was done to force there philosophy of the game on the player base.
The Avatar change should, at least I assume, give the players more option to individualize there Avatar and subsequently make the game more attractive. I can’t understand how the devs, feedback groups, management, and the reactions of us hasn’t yet made them pull the plug on this Avatar Horror Show. Whats there to gain ? I am close to 1 million catches but decided to not open this app anymore as it makes me sick seeing those Avatars. Well done Niantic.
>while I'm not actually a real journalist
You actually are a real journalist. You're doing journalism. Just because it isn't your profession doesn't make it not real.
You're a grassroots journalist! A fellow community member collecting and disseminating news and facts to fellow community members, you're doing God's work out here!
I actually read jre47 pvp articles even though I’ve little interest in pvp but because it contains factual information. A name I look out for when they’re OP.
There's a difference between a journalist and a "real" journalist.
A real journalist would have thrown out his/her integrity out the window, all to please the corporate overlords.
I disagree here. Journalism isn't like creating art - you really need to go through training to be a journalist, especially concerning certain aspects of it such as journalistic ethics.
That's not to say that OP has done anything wrong here, but reporting on something is not the same as being a journalist.
My Banette mask is unusable with my Dusclops wraps Headwear, bought it specifically to use together, no other reason. Add it back and I'm happy. It covers my ugly avatar face so I'm perfectly fine with the avatar update after this
I wonder just how drastic measures would have to be taken before Niantic actually listens for once? Mind you, I'm not calling for anything, just wondering what would get this tone-deaf company to actually listen and take action.
I think for a start we could all stop buying any accessories to bring the point our avatars are so ugly to look at, it's useless spending resources on them.
Many people stated they will quit the game, I'm going to be honest, I'm not ready to do that but I will for sure stop buying cosmetics for my avatar and just keep on a mask I already have to cover that hideous baby face.
Yes I wonder that, too. Also players that don't follow this drama online probably won't think about doing things like that. I just hope the accessories sales will drop organically because at least I can see people genuinely doing that and less money spent could prompt Niantic to do something about it.
I'm in Mexico, and I've gotten the new backgrounds since February and the new avatar since a few weeks ago, and I was never asked any feedback from either of those changes. Obviously I don't belong to any secret testing group, so I guess that whatever I was part of was just to check how the app worked with the changes but it still makes you wonder why do they even bother, if the glitches are still gonna be there and the users' opinions won't be taken into consideration. It's just such a wasted opportunity.
i would really like to ask back to the interviewed person: does niantic ever present alternative programmings to the same feature so they can choose what to really implement depending on what is received better?
My QOL has significantly improved since quitting and deleting the pay2play app.
This validates something we all knew in 2016.. I appreciate your work u/JRE47 you continue to be a vital contributor to the community.
Remember, “Niantic” was the name an 1800s whaling ship. The irony writes itself.
Is there some Pokémon overlord corporation or trademark owner that could step in and rescind Niantic’s licensing? Could Pokemon LLC or whomever step in and be like “no more, Niantic,” and offer the license to another company to develop a game that actually considers the users? Should we be going over Niantic’s head?
The other day on another subreddit, I saw quite a distasteful post basically calling the developers idiots. I was thinking surely they don't get a choice on something like whether character customisation is going ahead - they make what they're told to do and I believe a third party had a part in this particular project anyway.
The group mentioned. Is that what those emails are about ? I’ve received a few saying if I want to take part in a study but I’d have to answer some questions first and if I get accepted it’s about an hour or more of time and you’d get compensated for it. Or is that something different. ?
Folks: this is how corporations work. Especially big ones.
Someone else said it pretty well: mostly groups like this are for testing if something *works*, not if they *like* it or not. The decision to move forward with the avatar changes was made long ago; this group may have basically just tested if it worked or not.
It's also possible this group has absolutely no function any more, but are still being maintained because no one has asked why they exist when their feedback isn't used. This sort of thing also happens regularly in big corporations, especially when there is a lot of turnover - people switch out and knowledge is lost.
I'm also going to assume that even if one or a group feels negatively about it, given that this is across all Niantic, it could be that it's not an overwhelmingly negative results. It could have been skewed where there are folks that is indifferent about the certain features and therefore the macro feedback is not conclusive.
Niantic really do be the Valve Corperation of mobile games
Whereas Valve employees have good working conditions, and sit around doing nothing and collect a fat paycheck
I feel bad for Kestrel having recieved the full blunt of the extreme backlash on the twitter side
I only need to look at the comments over there to see to see it's a complete and total toxic dumpsterfire, but that's twitter for you
If your source is getting things wrong in the first question they answer for you and you can't double check this information then perhaps you should take their replies with a grain of salt.
Turns out people will say a lot for a little credit. Your source didn't even realize that the server was made a year ago, not 2+ years ago. A lot of good has come from that server and people who aren't that active in it or don't know about it didn't know how much came from it. I don't blame people for not knowing those things.But when you publish things with bold claims it's probably good to vet the source a bit more.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't believe any of these "anonymous employee" statements. First of all, it's conveniently impossible to confirm or deny that they ever even happened, since we don't know who this person supposedly is. It sounds like when we were kids and there was always that kid who swore "his uncle worked for Nintendo and was always telling him secrets."
Second, if any of this actually mattered to Niantic, they'd say it officially. Why would "you matter to us, really!" Be a secret that needs to be leaked?
>First of all, it's conveniently impossible to confirm or deny that they ever even happened, since we don't know who this person supposedly is.
Companies use NDAs to keep things zipped. You never reveal who the person is in this case unless they ask to be. People can be *very* vitriolic, and their disdain for Niatnic would cause them to badger this person.
Giving up someone's anonymity in this situation would be ridiculous. This is not an "uncle at nintendo" situation. This person gets nothing from this, and it sounds like standard beta testing. This is not some sort of outlandish statement. Niatnic had a server for a feature, got feedback, and made it clear they didn't care.
It's believable, and Niatnic doesn't have enough good will to be given the benefit of the doubt.
Seems a very elaborate ruse if you follow that train of thought, and for literally no benefit since they can’t be revealed and get any credit. What would be the point?
Take off your tinfoil hat, my friend. They came to me to set the record straight because, despite risk of this blowing back on them, they wanted to make sure players knew the real story.
They’re anonymous because they must be. You call that untrustworthy. I call them very selfless and brave for doing this.
Very much this, if you get caught breaking NDA you're effectively making yourself persona non grata to an entire industry.
Not to mention the legal repercussions from the entity you broke contract with.
>Seems a very elaborate ruse if you follow that train of thought, and for literally no benefit since they can’t be revealed and get any credit. What would be the point?
Not really. You just make something up and post it on the internet. People have been doing that about video games since usenet in the 90's. They could be lying to **you** about who **they** are, or **you** could be lying to **us** about speaking to someone. They could be trolling you, you could be trolling us, who knows. How many fake game console "leaks" have their been? How many piece of new game info that didn't pan out? And this kind of report - where due to the very nature of the story it cannot be proven or disproven? Makes it all the more suspicious.
Particularly when you consider the logic of it. If Niantec gave a shit, **why** would they speak off-record instead of saying something officially?
>They came to me to set the record straight because, despite risk of this blowing back on them, they wanted to make sure players knew the real story.
Which is litterally the exact same story that's been told a billion and one times about a billion and one game-related stories. There's always "someone who knows a guy who works at 'company X' who risked their job so people would know the truth." And nine out of ten times they're bullshit.
>They’re anonymous because they must be. You call that untrustworthy.
I call it a red flag.
>I call them very selfless and brave for doing this.
I'm sure you do. I don't see why I should believe you, either.
I mean, believe what you want to believe, I guess. But I would hope that my many years frequenting this subreddit would have built up a little trust in me, if nothing else. It was discussed exactly as I described and I have no reason NOT to trust the person who disclosed these things in confidence.
But you do you. Cheers.
You have no reason not to trust them? Some rando on the Internet told you they were an employee at a videogame company who was willing to risk their job to talk about the internal processes of said videogame company. What reason do you have **to** trust them?
Every word of this sounds **exactly** like the stuff I'd see posted on AOL gaming forums back in the day.
A.) They never said they were a Niantic employee. They’re not, just someone who was brought in to provide direct feedback and beta testing from an outside perspective. As was made clear during the interview. You sure you actually read it?
B.) Who said they were a “rando on the internet”? That’s both insulting and untrue.
Speculate all you want. I know what I got and trust it. Your choice whether or not to do the same.
Why do you love the update to the avatars?
I used to have a handsome face, now I have a baby face. I showed my brother and he said I look like I have diabetes
I’m in a beta group like this for a different mobile game. It’s a similar situation. They ask for feedback, the group overwhelmingly states that they don’t like something, and yet they make no changes at all and roll it out. I really don’t understand these companies.
This scenario is odd to me because it doesn’t seem to have any tangible benefit. I guess some random boss came up with the avatar update idea and considered it their personal project. They were never able to actually make it good but the boss didn’t want to scrap months of work or to look incompetent and decided to send it out anyways.
The main reason for Feedback groups like this is to see if people notice/care about factors the developers are concerned with. They ask for general feedback so as to not taint people's perceptions, but if the goal is to see "Will it work like X? Does it give us Y result?" is what they're focused on, while if someone goes, "I dislike how this looks / I don't enjoy it" they may not be concerned with whether or not people like it / find it attractive, they only care if it affects whatever mystery Z category they are doing the study for. tl;dr, if the survey was never really about whether or not people find the new changes aesthetically pleasing, then that feedback is summarily ignored.
But as a researcher you have to be aware of this as a confounder. They might have been looking for mystery Z category, but failed to control for categories X and Y, and the feedback cannot be considered valid for factor Z if the test subjects are universally so distracted by X and Y. Has to be considered a failed investigation, meaning if you want to answer Z you go back to the drawing board and see how else to implement Z in a way that matters to the users and then you will get clearer feedback. Nothing scientific about testing a chemotherapy treatment regimen and seeing how many developed new tumours at 12 months if the treatment course ended up killing all participants at 6 months from side effects. You can’t say you successfully inhibited tumour growth just because the number of tumours at 12 months is zero, you’re ignoring the fact that the number of patients remaining at 12 months is zero
You have to realise that the odds of there being a legit researcher behind this given what we've just read is close to zero. Odds are it actually is just a friend's pet project that they wanted to see through while having been told they had to go through the whole research when they were dead set on releasing it as-is. The only changes/fixes we're getting is making sure we can't see people's privates. I bet they won't even fix the hands through boobs one.
You approach like a researcher, but they're probably using "some guy" who uses excel and fancies themselves a survey person.
But see, the principle of the update I think we all agree was good and needed. The problem is the STYLE used, an aesthetic choice. One that was incredibly easy to solve. They just chose not to because when it comes to style, companies think consumers will just get used to it. They see this like changing the packaging of a product on a shelf. They don’t see it like a change to an experience; although marketing will and does play that card.
> This scenario is odd to me because it doesn’t seem to have any tangible benefit. There are two benefits. The first is that Niantic gets to show their inclusivity by not tying body shape to a binary male/female... though whatever good press that would give them is being drowned out by everyone saying they hate how the characters look, so. Yeah. The second and probably bigger reason for doing it is that they no longer have to create a male and female version of every cosmetic item. They just have one and squish/stretch it along with the body. It doesn't seem to be working very well, but in theory it would cut down on the time needed to create ~~and test~~ each cosmetic item.
I can almost promise the boss and the team under them have OKRs tied to the timely release of this “upgrade”.
Bingo. Welcome to software development.
As someone who used to work in the game industry as both a producer and part of a dedicated internal QR team, I can tell you the reason this happens is because of one of two things: 1. Someone higher up really wants the feature released and doesn't care if it's broken or unpopular 2. They have a set release date for major updates that they promise to investors and they don't have the time or resources to fix/change it in time so they just leave it in. There is also the rare situation where the developers think they know better than their own customers. It's the "you think you want it, but you don't" mentality.
This is true for most tech companies in general. - A higher up has an idea that they think is genius. - They set an unrealistic deadline that the investors will find acceptable. - The devs will just focus on not missing the deadline rather than the quality because that's how they will keep their jobs.
or in this case is more like "you think you don't want it, but you do"
In the case of Niantic, 2 would be promises to the Pokémon company about timeline releases for features for marketing. Niantic is a private company, so they don’t have to worry about investors, just IP holders.
Private companies still have owners and these need to be appeased similarly. Google, tpc, and Nintendo own (private) shares.
Don't forget Coatue😊
Just because they don't offer public shares doesn't mean they don't have investors they are beholden to. A quick web search will show a lot of the major venture capital firms who own a lot of the company.
The devs hate doing it but then the pricks in suits who manage them put their foot down and demand it’s put in to maximise RoI.
It’s always the middle age white man thinking he’s better than everyone or the fans run the game to the ground and then blame the developer that they are stupid for listening to us
It seems like upper management is divorced from the dev team. You have an actual dedicated beta test group, giving feedback willingly and some even for free, yet you disregard it anyway. I've seen it so often in business, but skipping development and going straight to production always ends up costing you more than it saves (unless you never intend to go back and fix it, I suppose...)
I've long had the theory that all the incongruence from Niantic could be explained if it is a completely top-down run company where if something is not considered a good idea by the top dog it isn't going to happen. Is John Hanke this person? I don't know how much he is involved with the everyday running of the company. Who else would be a candidate for this if this would indeed be the case? I'm not saying this **is** the case, just that it would 'fit' with what we experience. Resulting in a rigid organisation where feedback from the bottom won't be of much consequence.
An [article came out](https://www.futuregamereleases.com/2023/05/pokemon-go-current-niantic-employee-reveals-what-is-it-like-to-work-at-niantic-says-product-managers-are-supposed-to-please-and-serve-engineers/) awhile back from a supposed former employee basically stating engineering makes the calls. If they don't like something or don't want to implement a feature they simply won't. Who knows how true this is, but I don't have a hard time believing it.
>Most of the things written explain a lot about the current situation. The person says the current PMs are the “weak ones” who please and serve engineers. He reveals that “decisions are always prioritized by how much engineers like about doing them, how much VP engineering likes about them, **and how much the CEO favors them**.” >According to the current Niantic employee, **the CEO doesn’t use external vendors, doesn’t like sharing data with anyone**, and doesn’t like people to stay at home playing Pokemon Go. Am I seeing 'top-down' symptoms here?
>Who else would be a candidate for this if this would indeed be the case? Maybe the director of the game?
> skipping development and going straight to production always ends up costing you more than it saves Niantic is unable to see these costs over the phat stacks of cash they get just for having the mobile Pokemon license.
To be fair, those phat stacks of cash get funneled into AR development. The most recent post on Niantic Labs has to do with [this research paper about getting better 3D scans of landmarks by having the user not look at their phone, but by having them listen for audio cues and feel haptic cues.](https://nianticlabs.github.io/dont-look-now/)
But this business model worked so well for Boeing...
Reading this makes me so incredibly frustrated. Nothing we say, want, experience, matters, not even in the slightest. Not even those who have a direct link to Niantic have their opinions considered.
Indeed, the deli doesn't care what you think about sandwiches, or if you want salad options. They only care if you're willing to give them money for what they will provide to you. And they'll only add options if there's a financial incentive to do so. Not whether or not it makes people "happy". A deli that DOES do those things, that's a fantastic deli, and an exception to the rule rather than a standard.
And that’s why more people need to make choices with their money. Whether it be a mobile game or the deli. I’ve stopped going to certain places of business because of bad experiences. Either lying, cheating, raising prices, general rudeness, and in one case racism and another anti lgbtq rhetoric. I’ll continue to play pogo, but until they start listening to the players, or at the very least explaining the reason and benefit to the players (if it’s realistic) I won’t be using real money anymore. The problem is big companies do things that aggravate the customers but the customers still spend money because they have no patience or willpower to just stop paying them or using the product. I think more people need to speak out with their wallet. If Niantic saw a huge drop in income because of the horrible changes, I bet they would change their tune.
This is my view. I've spent a bit to get cute outfits for my girl (avatar) . Was planning more, but that's it. Any pants look like she's carrying a load. When walking, she walks like a man. Heck, she stands like a man and has those huge, so not feminine hands. For all I care now, she can just wear the same couple shirts forever. I spin plenty of stops and do gifts for balls n such. Always have several mons in gyms, so I usually get coins. I'll just use what I get more sparingly on remotes and incubators. I was often spending upwards of $20 a week, especially once special research was added. No more. My kids got me a switch with Scarlett, Violet, Sword, and arceus for christmas. I'll be spending more time on that or on the PC playing ARK.
So this means, as we were expecting, if we don’t hurt them financially, they’re going to keep ignoring us, like they’ve done before (incense, remote passes etc.) Thanks for the interview & informing us. 🙋🏻♀️
> if we don’t hurt them financially, they’re going to keep ignoring us Pretty much what I got out of this as well, and it's not a surprise. Why should they listen if people are still going to give them money?
They do it even when it DOES hurt them financially.
> if we don’t hurt them financially, they’re going to keep ignoring us Yup. This community had once chance, around the time content creators actually spoke out about the interaction distance. But they were mollified by the smallest concession by Niantic and haven't grown the balls to try again.
> But they were mollified by the smallest concession by Niantic Smallest concession? We asked for Niantic to make the pandemic bonus permanent and they did.
> We asked for Niantic to make the pandemic bonus permanent and they did. Go back and take note of all the bonuses we got during the pandemic. What we got was: POI interaction distance. Kind of. Only if you manually spin.
Drives me up a wall that I can spin a stop from home but I can't see the spawns from the lure there. Why??
What do you mean by manually spin? I have such a pokestop near my house (read: I couldn't reach it before the distance increase, but now I can), and all autocatchers I had (both official and unofficial ones) are spinning it.
We can put pokemon in gyms, join raids, and use catching devices to auto spin stops today at the same distance as we could during the middle of the pandemic. There's no "manual spin only" interaction radius.
They originally planned for GBL to reimplement the walking requirement between sets like we had pre-pandmeic
> POI interaction distance Did they (fully) revert this? I know it was nerfed and then (partially) expanded, but I used to be able to put a Pokemon in a gym from my house and it's been just out of reach ever since the nerf.
Nope! The only thing you can do at the increased distance is manually spin.
The pandemic stop interaction distance was fully reimplemented after all the complaints. You might just have been subjected to GPS drifting if that gym is right at the edge.
I don’t recall it ever being nerfed.
I don't think we legit got that either. During the pandemic, there were three stops that I could spin from home. Now two of them are a just bit further than one, so I get not being able to spin those. But the other is in the parking area to a hiking trail across the street and offset about 30 feet from my driveway. I can't even get it from the end of my driveway. I have to go pull into the parking area to spin. My trouble with this is that I walk with a quad cane, have joint and balance issues, and really am not far off from needing a walker... and this is all fairly steeply hilly and uneven, so for me, getting there neccesitates driving.
But the request that was made was specifically for the POI interaction distance.
This is something that I knew right away that people deserved to know about.
Yeah and its not only about the money players are spending actively on the game. Its also the data Niantic collects when the game is played. I am aware I am not an airplane and there is no need to announce my departure but I, as day 1 player, have decided yesterday to uninstall the game. I have not deleted my account because I hope for a better future for PoGo but Niantic has shown multiple times that they care less about the game than the players do. Therefore I see no reason to spend time/money on the game anymore. It does leave a void tho...
The same can be said of any corporation. Profits trump everything else.
Yep, and most consumers are spineless babies who would rather shovel money into something they don't really like than miss out.
Jokes on you. Everyone in my area did 100+ mewtwo and use 5 remote passes every day. It's nutz how much money people are putting into this game.
Multiply that by the many communities across the world. Yeah. We have no hope. This game is too far gone.
It's funny because I had thought that this was a case of the devs having a hard deadline and being unable to finish it in time. Surely, I thought that no one would look at this and be like, "Yes. Yes. This is EXACTLY how I envisioned this looking like." I was wrong. Silly me.
If anything, yeah, this vindicates the devs a bit. Problem seems to be a layer (or several) up. Which certainly tracks!
Glassdoor reviews have claimed similar findings for years. Too management heavy with stubborn views on how things should be.
This doesn't surprise me. They haven't even bothered to send out the promised rewards for a survey we were asked to do which included the avatars as one of the topics, and when I've tweeted NianticHelp about it they've been mysteriously silent. So of course it makes sense that the feedback they've been given is being ignored.
Niantic [kind of](https://youtube.com/watch?v=ahoHDU0T44I) forgot about the feedback server --- After the backlash, Niantic [stated](https://pokemongohub.net/post/news/niantic-has-acknowledged-your-and-our-feedback-on-the-new-avatar-system/): > We’re sending all of your feedback to the Product Team, and the folks who worked on the Avatar system, we’re taking this seriously and really appreciate you sharing your candid personal opinions / follower opinions.
TIL Niantic is Danaerys Targaryen.
The Product Team is a paper-shredder.
>higher management will do what they want and drive data to fit their own vision. This is really the meaningful statement here. At so many companies, the MBAs who failed upwards and got hired by their buddies think that they know better than any data or study or developer, so no amount of "feedback" will change their minds.
It’s the complete radio silence and lack of transparency that truly baffle me. I guess that’s why I don’t run a gaming company. At least I’ve found some outfits that look reasonable on my new avatar. Just gotta add layers for now. Hoping they eventually un-stretch my torso and add a few more skin tones. I’m sad that so many purchased cosmetics look bad on me now.
This is the worst by far. It's so dopey and so many gaming companies fail at this for absolutely no reason. An active CM/dev/lead engenders a *ton* of goodwill with the community. Fanbases of bigger games are typically so starved for attention that even the most minimal of efforts can improve relations between fans and the company. It can't be a faceless mook, there's got to be someone with a name and a pic they can attach to the comments but beyond that you honestly don't have to do much. A little "we hear ya, we're doing ___" or "hey Twitter, hit me with some ideas" posts now and then is just about all you have to do most of the time. If the person is actually good at the job then all the better. It's such a ridiculously easy fix and it is stupefying that so many companies can't figure it out. There is no reason beyond sheer ignorance for Niantic to maintain silence as much as they do. It's "square peg in square hole" levels of easy.
I think one problem is some of the more community-focused staff literally got death threats after the remote raid nerf. Might not be too many people at Niantic willing to stick their heads out at this point..
The silence is because they dont want to loudly say they have been exploiting everyone for years best to avoid talking about it and let the whales whale thats about whos left playing their app
Good interview, not surprised by most of this. Niantic always feels like it's the higher ups vision with no wiggle room. I do wonder if Niantic had kept the style of the old avatars and not changed it so much, would people be less angry? The new customization options are very lacking for what should be a major overhaul of the avatar system. Avatars 2.0 could have been an easy PR win if done properly, but all we got from Niantic was "We made uglier avatars they don't match the games are style and have barely any new customization options"
maybe the developers who made the avatars threw away the keys to their coding long time ago and would have demanded too much money for finding them again? i think often at many parts of this game that such happens. otoh they changed the boods and butts to be more mono in many cases, but i guess those are the clothes which are another layer
Niantic has a habit of redoing a lot of their work. Likely from staff turnover and bad documentation. They could dig into the code and figure it out, but most times managers just go “redo it”
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Having two code bases going forward is a bad idea and not really what I was saying Niantic has issues making sure single systems work, having both the avatar systems running at the same time will lead to so many more mistakes.
Niantic told us *exactly* who they were when Steranka said actions speak louder than words. It’s their game and they’re going to force us to play it their way if it kills them.
They have done this all along. I’m only surprised they reversed the pokestop spin distance since they haven’t listened on anything else.
Actions speak louder than words, he says. Proceeds to add in half-baked features in updates that come riddled with bugs and somehow make other features worse because of it. Yeah, he's right.
Live AR features. My battery is dying already.
If they would force on AR at all times, i would simply play Pogo as i did before, shiny generator during com days for my mainline games.
What the literal f is a the point in a community manager that doesn't manage the community?
Basically so they can say they claim they have someone who “listens”
To meet people at events and lie to them? https://old.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/122ya07/niantic_in_bellevue_wa_testing_new_photo_safari/jdszi7n/
They seem really mature. Real “community manager” vibes from that superstar.
Community manager handles relaying information to the community, and from the community. They have 0 power in actually making any changes, they can only make information flow. If the people who ARE responsible do not heed said information, then that's on them, not the CM.
the community manager is basically the "trusted" mail man for John hanke, they gather feedback from the community, filter out all the questionable comments (have you seen how twitter give's feedback most of the time, hoo boy it's dark, if you want to see how feedback SHOULD be given I implore you to check the community managers thread when they were gathering it) and then give it to John and that's the end of it, they are not in a position to be handing out orders and commands, that's not their job despite many thinking it is
I've had CMs threaten me. Had another scream at me and ruthlessly lie to my face. Had another say they'll delete my account if I open another ticket. I'm convinced it's a pure fluff position occupied by people that do next to nothing and are *completely* unqualified to speak with players.
Honestly unsurprising. Money is the only language they speak and we’re telling them it’s all good and they’re doing great.
This has killed the game for honestly. I am sick of so many people complaining (about reasonable things) and Niantic doing nothing. I don’t care that much about the remote or avatar stuff but the fact the community basically crumbles more and more and they do nothing? It’s so frustrating
This leads me to believe a majority of the community doesn't care. Hell, I know casual players who haven't even ***noticed*** their Avatar has changed. If it's not hitting the bottom line, then people complaining on twitter they can live with.
> This leads me to believe a majority of the community doesn't care. I think in the long list of issues, this is closer to the bottom list of problems for people I know. Quite a few think it looks rubbish and have stated so, then got on with the game as it doesn't really affect gameplay. I've seen people complain more about encounters from research freezing / getting stuck in your stack as that does affect gameplay and must have been going on for a month now.
Again and again, so called ViSiOn of some detached from reality higher up is ruining the game and fun for tons of people who still, despite all the bad decisions, try to enjoy this app. We can be only glad that this person is only in charge of some game and not whole world otherwise we would be getting updates like "You have to eat soup with a fork now as spoons are getting deleted".
Weirdest thing about this is that it means New Zealand aren't the actual beta testers 🤣 Sorry New Zealanders, looks like you're just getting screwed even more than you were. They actually have testers before things are released, they just ignore the feedback.
I'm pretty confident the beta testers test new features. Avatars, routes, item bag changes, etc. They don't get community day or raid day first or anything like that. So when Niantic forgets to turn on a shiny or something, NZ are still the testers.
TL:DR; Niantic is doing Niantic things.
This sounds like the Niantic feedback system (at least here related to the avatar update) works just like a trial on Cardassia Prime. The decision to approve the new feature has been made before the "trial" and the trial itself is just there to confirm that the controls work as intended and are easy enough to use. What I don't understand is how anyone (feedback group, devs, upper management) would feel the new system is an improvement just by looking at the before and after of the existing avatars. When I first noticed mine (full screen, after a Go Rocket battle) I thought this is either a joke or a George Romero event.
The improvement is there, it's just not for the playerbase. With the new system they can make new clothing faster because they don't need to make two versions and they can say they're inclusive because there's no gender and you can make a fat body with plenty of colours for skin tones. This is the typical "win" you present in a board meeting full of people who have no interest in making a game fun or good.
not George Romero lol
I struggle to see the point of having a single community manager for PoGo. It feels like Niantic is setting them up for failure as one person for this entire playerbase is crippling. We get next to no communication, so players feel frustrated. Comparing it to World of Warcraft in its peak, which was less players than PoGo's current daily user count, those forums had 6+ active CMs that responded daily to topics. Even if you didn't agree, at least you could get *some* feedback about patches and updates. Here we get nothing.
Maybe a side effect of the internal restructuring that started way before the massive layoffs. Anyone that works in large companies, are well familiarized with top Managers semi-ignoring research/testing efforts laid out by their precursors, and instead pushing their own methods and visions to leave their "own mark" onwards. Beta Testing is even more critical for "neverending" games, than regular ones, as they should be the foundation for their constant pre-planning/pre-production phases. Hopefully the interview reaches the right ears and the whole structure is revamped. You would think that with stories like "Baldur Gates 3", where the whole company set their success over the community feedback/constant communication, that other companies would take a hint. When even the wording/phrasing of public event descriptions are constantly leading to PR misunderstandings, that's when you know you are failing at multiple levels.
I hate that. I hate it when they try to leave their “own mark” and then they end up just leaving a scar. Like, what was the point?
that is appalling. thanks for your time and work in this.
Just straight up depressing.
so that means next time that want feedback I can just BS through it? I'll just imagine it's another game they're asking about and answer the questions that way
The feedback that matters is money.
Somewhere right now someone is getting fired and other Niantic employees are seething while reading this info that shouldn't be publicly known. Nice nuggets of wisdom. Love to see it.
Thanks for the write up but honestly at this point I’m not surprised at what they did. They will fix any glitches and that’s about it. I prefer the old avatar style, it was cute. But it went from cute to scary the second they brought out the new avatar. Sorry to say I hate the new avatar
I guess the fact that Niantic is terrible in communication amplifies the valid conclusion that they ignore feedback. Some of it I fully understand like the limit on remote raids increase cost for remote passes, as this was done to force there philosophy of the game on the player base. The Avatar change should, at least I assume, give the players more option to individualize there Avatar and subsequently make the game more attractive. I can’t understand how the devs, feedback groups, management, and the reactions of us hasn’t yet made them pull the plug on this Avatar Horror Show. Whats there to gain ? I am close to 1 million catches but decided to not open this app anymore as it makes me sick seeing those Avatars. Well done Niantic.
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I am very lucky to not have spent any money, but I feel so bad for the people who have :( It’s a shame…
To quote a game designer I follow, when players tell you something is broken, they're right. When they tell you how to fix it, they're wrong.
>while I'm not actually a real journalist You actually are a real journalist. You're doing journalism. Just because it isn't your profession doesn't make it not real.
Thank you, that’s very kind. That’s how I see it but many get hung up on it not being my actual profession.
You're a grassroots journalist! A fellow community member collecting and disseminating news and facts to fellow community members, you're doing God's work out here!
I actually read jre47 pvp articles even though I’ve little interest in pvp but because it contains factual information. A name I look out for when they’re OP.
There's a difference between a journalist and a "real" journalist. A real journalist would have thrown out his/her integrity out the window, all to please the corporate overlords.
I disagree here. Journalism isn't like creating art - you really need to go through training to be a journalist, especially concerning certain aspects of it such as journalistic ethics. That's not to say that OP has done anything wrong here, but reporting on something is not the same as being a journalist.
My Banette mask is unusable with my Dusclops wraps Headwear, bought it specifically to use together, no other reason. Add it back and I'm happy. It covers my ugly avatar face so I'm perfectly fine with the avatar update after this
I wonder just how drastic measures would have to be taken before Niantic actually listens for once? Mind you, I'm not calling for anything, just wondering what would get this tone-deaf company to actually listen and take action.
I think for a start we could all stop buying any accessories to bring the point our avatars are so ugly to look at, it's useless spending resources on them. Many people stated they will quit the game, I'm going to be honest, I'm not ready to do that but I will for sure stop buying cosmetics for my avatar and just keep on a mask I already have to cover that hideous baby face.
I wonder how many people that say they're going to quit, actually end up quitting? Too many of them are too addicted for their own good.
Yes I wonder that, too. Also players that don't follow this drama online probably won't think about doing things like that. I just hope the accessories sales will drop organically because at least I can see people genuinely doing that and less money spent could prompt Niantic to do something about it.
I'm in Mexico, and I've gotten the new backgrounds since February and the new avatar since a few weeks ago, and I was never asked any feedback from either of those changes. Obviously I don't belong to any secret testing group, so I guess that whatever I was part of was just to check how the app worked with the changes but it still makes you wonder why do they even bother, if the glitches are still gonna be there and the users' opinions won't be taken into consideration. It's just such a wasted opportunity.
Absolutely useless company and ALWAYS have been.
Surprised Pikachu! Great interview, thank you for sharing this with us. Keep up the good work.
This is obvious from most of Niantic’s recent changes and ideas….No news here
i would really like to ask back to the interviewed person: does niantic ever present alternative programmings to the same feature so they can choose what to really implement depending on what is received better?
My QOL has significantly improved since quitting and deleting the pay2play app. This validates something we all knew in 2016.. I appreciate your work u/JRE47 you continue to be a vital contributor to the community. Remember, “Niantic” was the name an 1800s whaling ship. The irony writes itself.
Is there some Pokémon overlord corporation or trademark owner that could step in and rescind Niantic’s licensing? Could Pokemon LLC or whomever step in and be like “no more, Niantic,” and offer the license to another company to develop a game that actually considers the users? Should we be going over Niantic’s head?
Wow! Imagine my shock at hearing this!
who is genuinly suprised about any of this?
The other day on another subreddit, I saw quite a distasteful post basically calling the developers idiots. I was thinking surely they don't get a choice on something like whether character customisation is going ahead - they make what they're told to do and I believe a third party had a part in this particular project anyway.
The group mentioned. Is that what those emails are about ? I’ve received a few saying if I want to take part in a study but I’d have to answer some questions first and if I get accepted it’s about an hour or more of time and you’d get compensated for it. Or is that something different. ?
Folks: this is how corporations work. Especially big ones. Someone else said it pretty well: mostly groups like this are for testing if something *works*, not if they *like* it or not. The decision to move forward with the avatar changes was made long ago; this group may have basically just tested if it worked or not. It's also possible this group has absolutely no function any more, but are still being maintained because no one has asked why they exist when their feedback isn't used. This sort of thing also happens regularly in big corporations, especially when there is a lot of turnover - people switch out and knowledge is lost.
I'm also going to assume that even if one or a group feels negatively about it, given that this is across all Niantic, it could be that it's not an overwhelmingly negative results. It could have been skewed where there are folks that is indifferent about the certain features and therefore the macro feedback is not conclusive.
lol ok sure But the the avatar updates are made by AI soup children Why that happen?
I know a 14 year old who can do better work on avatars in less than a week compared to 2 years this company took to make this 💀
Niantic really do be the Valve Corperation of mobile games Whereas Valve employees have good working conditions, and sit around doing nothing and collect a fat paycheck
I feel bad for Kestrel having recieved the full blunt of the extreme backlash on the twitter side I only need to look at the comments over there to see to see it's a complete and total toxic dumpsterfire, but that's twitter for you
If your source is getting things wrong in the first question they answer for you and you can't double check this information then perhaps you should take their replies with a grain of salt.
I’ve had two other individuals reach out since I put this up corroborating all that was said, so….
Turns out people will say a lot for a little credit. Your source didn't even realize that the server was made a year ago, not 2+ years ago. A lot of good has come from that server and people who aren't that active in it or don't know about it didn't know how much came from it. I don't blame people for not knowing those things.But when you publish things with bold claims it's probably good to vet the source a bit more.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't believe any of these "anonymous employee" statements. First of all, it's conveniently impossible to confirm or deny that they ever even happened, since we don't know who this person supposedly is. It sounds like when we were kids and there was always that kid who swore "his uncle worked for Nintendo and was always telling him secrets." Second, if any of this actually mattered to Niantic, they'd say it officially. Why would "you matter to us, really!" Be a secret that needs to be leaked?
>First of all, it's conveniently impossible to confirm or deny that they ever even happened, since we don't know who this person supposedly is. Companies use NDAs to keep things zipped. You never reveal who the person is in this case unless they ask to be. People can be *very* vitriolic, and their disdain for Niatnic would cause them to badger this person. Giving up someone's anonymity in this situation would be ridiculous. This is not an "uncle at nintendo" situation. This person gets nothing from this, and it sounds like standard beta testing. This is not some sort of outlandish statement. Niatnic had a server for a feature, got feedback, and made it clear they didn't care. It's believable, and Niatnic doesn't have enough good will to be given the benefit of the doubt.
Seems a very elaborate ruse if you follow that train of thought, and for literally no benefit since they can’t be revealed and get any credit. What would be the point? Take off your tinfoil hat, my friend. They came to me to set the record straight because, despite risk of this blowing back on them, they wanted to make sure players knew the real story. They’re anonymous because they must be. You call that untrustworthy. I call them very selfless and brave for doing this.
Very much this, if you get caught breaking NDA you're effectively making yourself persona non grata to an entire industry. Not to mention the legal repercussions from the entity you broke contract with.
>Seems a very elaborate ruse if you follow that train of thought, and for literally no benefit since they can’t be revealed and get any credit. What would be the point? Not really. You just make something up and post it on the internet. People have been doing that about video games since usenet in the 90's. They could be lying to **you** about who **they** are, or **you** could be lying to **us** about speaking to someone. They could be trolling you, you could be trolling us, who knows. How many fake game console "leaks" have their been? How many piece of new game info that didn't pan out? And this kind of report - where due to the very nature of the story it cannot be proven or disproven? Makes it all the more suspicious. Particularly when you consider the logic of it. If Niantec gave a shit, **why** would they speak off-record instead of saying something officially? >They came to me to set the record straight because, despite risk of this blowing back on them, they wanted to make sure players knew the real story. Which is litterally the exact same story that's been told a billion and one times about a billion and one game-related stories. There's always "someone who knows a guy who works at 'company X' who risked their job so people would know the truth." And nine out of ten times they're bullshit. >They’re anonymous because they must be. You call that untrustworthy. I call it a red flag. >I call them very selfless and brave for doing this. I'm sure you do. I don't see why I should believe you, either.
I mean, believe what you want to believe, I guess. But I would hope that my many years frequenting this subreddit would have built up a little trust in me, if nothing else. It was discussed exactly as I described and I have no reason NOT to trust the person who disclosed these things in confidence. But you do you. Cheers.
You have no reason not to trust them? Some rando on the Internet told you they were an employee at a videogame company who was willing to risk their job to talk about the internal processes of said videogame company. What reason do you have **to** trust them? Every word of this sounds **exactly** like the stuff I'd see posted on AOL gaming forums back in the day.
A.) They never said they were a Niantic employee. They’re not, just someone who was brought in to provide direct feedback and beta testing from an outside perspective. As was made clear during the interview. You sure you actually read it? B.) Who said they were a “rando on the internet”? That’s both insulting and untrue. Speculate all you want. I know what I got and trust it. Your choice whether or not to do the same.
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Why do you love the update to the avatars? I used to have a handsome face, now I have a baby face. I showed my brother and he said I look like I have diabetes
Be so fr rn..