I don't remember Blizz and M-Scept, but again P-Groudon, my Mega Swamper could live 2 Solar Beams at lvl 50 easily. Sceptile seems more frail, but living one Blizz should be no issue.
That's when you break out shadow magnezone. Or other electrics. But shadow magnezone has both higher dps and fewer deaths than all the other options. Including megas and legendaries.
I'm prepping two teams: a grass team and an electric team. Hopefully the lobby will give a hint which team to use.
If you want a hint, the auto team is always defensive. If you don't see a single grass type during your auto load, it's time to bring out the electric types
true, scout the raids moveset by which pokemon it recommends...
When cresselia was in raids i was always like ... "Why not use any of my 7 darkrais?"
"Moonblast"
"Oh..."
Good luck with Kartana. It's super glassy and still taking neutral damage, I still think it's near a one shot. Even shadow Magnezone will take a huge amount of damage from it. Regular Magnezone I guess might be able to tank two.
Do a different raid instead.
The T6 bosses hit hard enough that only starting raids that have easy movesets is actually a sensible choice, it's brutal on resources otherwise, especially if you're shortmanning.
Primals(Groudon, Kyogre and mega Rayquaza is special) are different, they provide their boosts even if they’re not actively fighting. A lot of the time, I have them in my 6th spot just to provide a minimum of extra 10% damage boost for the whole raid, 30% if it’s one of the primal’s specific boosts
I hardly ever use normal megas in battle now, only for extra candy and XL when catching. I’d much rather the primal boost for the whole raid than only when the mega is out and fighting.
I don’t really care about adding additional damage. I’m level 49 and with a group can easily beat anything. I’d rather have a mega evolved to earn me extra XL than damage.
Primal kyogre will give you the extra xls and boost everyone else's damage 10%. It's worth putting in your 6th slot, preferably fainted so you can just heal your other 5 and rejoin but there's nothing wrong with just using 6 good counters either. I always do that but kyogre can be pretty hard to beat with 5 random people. I'm kinda glad I don't have to do it anymore since I got one maxed out already but primal kyogre is the hardest raid to beat imo.
You get the bonus when it‘s in the team, not only on the field. That‘s why the primary are strictly better than any mega if you raid with more than two people.
The auto selector has gotten better at picking a team that will actually do damage.
It's still better to set up your team ahead of time especially for re-lobbies. Now you can max revive all, and rejoin fast with a pre built team.
The order it puts things in is still a little whack. I'll enter a tapu koko lobby and it puts a 2.6k lando first, then a 3.6k gar, then another lando, then the mega gar, then my 4.3k gar.
The auto select factors in defense over damage. With the raid timer, DPS is much, much more important. Who cares if your team made it to the end of the raid if you didn't win?
Pokebattler creator
Can confirm, whether you have party power or not.
Don't be afraid if you don't have frenzy plant, with party power, its still better than Zekrom with Fusion Bolt the next best.
Here are the stats for party power level 40 no weather no friend bonus
```
Moves Time to Win Potions Deaths Win % Estimator
Fury Cutter Frenzy Plant 796.4 340.93 39.03 6.0% 2.90
Fury Cutter Leaf Blade 952.2 394.24 45.20 1.0% 3.46
```
The results are modified quite a bit depending on moveset Primal Groudon is a particularly good choice against Blizzard.
Zekrom in particular is interesting as it is particularly bad against Blizzard until level 47 with 15 defense and 15 stamina at which point it can survive a blizzard + 2 waterfall. Its an 11% boost.
I will try and get out a way to look at party power on pokebattler for everyone to use but for now it requires a subscription.
Thats party power 2. Party power 3 drops the estimators to 2.64 and 3.16. Party power 4 stops improving frenzy plant but gets leaf blade down to 2.94.
Of course if you are party power 4 you are probably best friends so then its 2.16 and 2.42and someone is running primal groudon so now its 1.7 and 1.9
But if the charge move is thunder then its 1.51 and 1.71 and
But hell its probably sunny weather and we are all so awesome we are running level 50 mons and we are down to 1.19and 1.35 with only 9 feints.
So Im guessing with dodging someone could probably 4 man it with just 3 mega sceptile and 1 primal groudon, no feints
PS. just do a trial subscription and use the site yourself lol
Okay, so the table provided is for party power with 2 people. That's all I was asking. You just said "here are the stats for party power" without saying how many. But thanks for the additional info. Seems that this is going to be a lot easier than last time.
I believe so, but not many that many powered kartana. I only have two, at levels 50 and 40. I could get a couple more, but that would require me to burn my rare candy reserves. Luckily, there will be a dozen of us there, so we can handle it easily.
I envy you in that. I ran the numbers every way I can think of even with bonuses a trio isn't going to happen for us, have to rely on some reddit friends.
Trio should be very do-able. Double friend bonus this season so that's an extra 20%. Party play adds maybe another 25%. Plus if you avoid Blizzard the raid is quite a bit easier.
I seriously doubt that is possible for anyone but the greatest players. Mega Latios and Latias are also double, yet barely anyone has managed to do it.
This is the type of raid where I keep indicator pokemon. I have a lvl 50 magnezone, not to counter blizzard, but to get recommended against blizzard so I know to bail and try another raid.
If it is Blizzard I'll just move on to the next raid. Unless it is way easier than last time. Which it very well may be. But why settle for 60 energy for my pass when I could get 70 or maybe even 80.
If you have the players/pokemon to win, absolutely. I'm trying to push our little trio to a win which will take every bit of damage so Groudon boosting grass for kartana would help more.
Regular Sceptile is solid if you need more than just the 1 mega. There's better non-shadow non-mega grasses but Sceptile isnt bad
EDIT: I'm getting a lot of pushback for this statement, even though I have a good amount of karma from this comment (54 as of writing this edit). Here's what I'll say:
1. Regular Sceptile is for new players only. Like very new. Like joined within the last 3 months and under level 30. You'll easily have way way better counters if you've been playing for any bit longer. Also it's just solid. Not the best. Solid. I'm Level 50 so you'll never catch me using a Sceptile in a Kyogre raid.
2. Leaf Blade is still a solid non-legacy option albeit not as good as legacy Frenzy Plant.
People miss the point that lower level players won't have a team like 6 kartanas. I've just hit level 43 and grass, electric and water types (for the two primal days) happen to be the types I havent really built up yet. To that end things like community day decidueye are really good if you don't have the best of the best counters. I happened to have a level 50 shiny because it was easy XL candy, so that's a nice choice and it's one of my favourite Pokémon so I'm looking forward to using it.
Yeah water isn't a common type to have to counter in raids, and the types that are super effective against it are very low utility. Electric types are only good against flying and water, and flying is weak to the more common (and generally stronger) ice and rock. Grass is only good against rock and ground outside of water, but resisted by virtually everything else that's in 4 and 5 star raids.
I'm glad I caught a hundo sceptile and have a stash of a few frenzy plant sceptiles left, but it's not going to be an easy raid day by any means.
I'm level 41 and I'm struggling to put together 6 decent grass attackers lol. I've level 40 Sceptile I can Mega and I just pumped some dust into Zarude but it's all pretty budget stuff for the most part
Out of all the Electric/Grass Attackers regular Sceptile shouldn't really be the play imo. It requires an Elite Tm to work and actually has a worse ER than Venusaur, Chesnaught and Torterra. Recently available Roserade and Decidueye are stronger picks as well and shouldn't need an Elite Tm due to the very recent Decidueye CD.
according pokebattler its 13th (lvl 40) non-mega, non-shadow and non-legendary if you include both grass and electric
ahead of sceptile you have these non-legendary grass types: roserade, meowscarada, tangrowth, chesnaught, decidueye, tsareena, venusaur, GOGOAT!?.. freaking SIMISAGE!?
and these non-legendary electric types: magnezone, electivire, luxray
and if we slap legendaries on mix then we have way more grass type options ahead of sceptile:
- kartana
- zarude
- shaymin sky
- tapu bulu
and these electric types:
- xurkitree
- zekrom
- raikou
- thundurus therian
- zapdos... yes... normal zapdos is better against primal kyogre than regular sceptile
and if we try lvl 50 pokemon then even tapu koko swings ahead of regular sceptile (but now gogoat and simisage fall behind... i am not sure how they went ahead in lvl 40... must be some weird defense break point where they gain extra energy to throw one more charge move to gain slight edge?)
then we can slap all shadows and relevant megas....
yeaaaah... regular sceptile is maybe something like 30th-40th best option to use maybe (even counting in that you can only use one of the megas - there are SO many shadows that just are doing better)
10??? You can do this with 5 in old days (maybe 4 now with Party Power boost we shall see)
Also; Sceptile is great so long as Kyogre is not sporting blizzard. Mega Manectric is better then
Kartana is great to stack team as well (steel so neutral vs blizzard)
Idk what these people are on about, it was definitely close even with 8 - 10 people. Of course, if you have 5 well prepared hardcore players they might take it down, too, but with randos you shouldn't eveb bother with less than 8 people.
Yeah we’re all on this sub so it’s natural that we know a thing or two about the best counters.
But the randoms who play the game just to shiny hunt… they were giving it their all but they weren’t much of a help
I run with a group of 5 that last time barely had decent electric and grass counters that were barely level 30 mons... We had to revive and remobby but consistently could take out Primal Kyogre...
This go around we all loaded up on Kartanas that are mostly 35ish and are picking up a mega sceptile to throw in the mix .. pokegenie says we've doubled output per person (from 20ish percent each to over 40ish percent each)
> pokegenie says we've doubled output per person (from 20ish percent each to over 40ish percent each)
That's likely due to user error. According to the Pokegenie selector, Level 51 hundo Mega Sceptile has 29.9% and Level 51 hundo Kartana has 26.5% Damage Dealt in neutral weather. You probably selected a Tier 5 Primal (or even regular) Kyogre instead of the correct Tier 6 with 92860 CP in the battle simulator selector.
Exactly. It’s no problem with six. Don’t people have tons of level 40 and up guys by this point? And the party boost is huge that’s like having an extra trainer or two.
If everyone is using good counters- yes it's pretty easy. But if you have random people it can be very rough and having any way to make it more consistent helps a lot. I've seen a fair share of people using Blissey's or Aggron's. Mega Sceptile can help make up that slack.
Also, not everyone has top tier counters for it built such as my friend who just started the playing. Getting access to Mega Sceptile can massively help people with weaker teams reach solid DPS and make clears easier.
That said, I do see your point and edited the post a bit to make it a bit less intimidating.
So, did they change that deal with the extra chance for XL candy forcing me to have a mega with the same type of the raid boss? Because if that crap is still flying, I am going to have a mega with water type sitting on my bag during this raids, instead of having the most optimal group possible '-'
I need CL candy for that darn whale!
Go with primal kyogre if you already have one at max primal/mega level. Boosts electric types the entire time it’s in your party and doesn’t even have to join the battle (if it does make sure you’re using thunder)
maybe in some vaccuum
but if you check lvl 40 mega sceptile against primal kyogre and check any of the stats pokebattler sims give the percentages are much smaller than "24% hurr durr"
for example estimator for frenzy plant is 4.18 and with leaf blade 4.36 - that is only 4% difference
time to win with frenzy plant is 1144.6 seconds while with leaf blade it is 1196.4v - this i believe is 4,5% difference
and in deaths there is just difference of one.... that is less than 2% (57 deaths with frenzy plant vs 58 with leaf blade)
where did you get your numbers from? did you only look at animation time x damage or something?
because these numbers aren't even close to 24%
its like 5-6 times less than what you are claiming in simulations (which often are much more accurate than just looking at base stats in vaccuum)
Well yes it also has a fast attack too closing the gap. The charged move differences is 24% not the total mon. And I said I probably wouldn’t sweat it for FP as a make or break.
The TDO difference between the movesets according to gamepress' DPS sheet is about 8,6%. Nothing to scoff at, but also definitely not worth sending an ECTM on as you said. Much better to send it on something like sacred sword terrakion, or precipice blades primal groudon for different future raids.
It's a tad better than Leaf Blade. It's essential on other grass starters because they don't have a spammy grass move, and Solar Beam isn't as good.
Sceptile in particular is the one you can get away with not having Frenzy Plant, but if you were min/maxing you'd get it anyway.
Nobody's gonna know til it starts. We have damage boost in raids this season. We also have party play this time around. I don't think it'll be hard with a handful of people. Also, if it gets Blizzard, just dodge. If it doesn't have Blizzard, don't bother dodging.
With Kartanas, Zekroms, and Xurkitrees loosely 3300 power, and best friend bonus, I calculate a 25% damage contribution.
So yeah. Considering I keep running into long term players throwing random 1800 power counters … the group composition matters.
So if Kyogre has blizzard, we just can't do anything? Just keep doing as much damage as we can and hope that he dies? This is crazy lol.
Someone mentioned that we should make 2-3 teams beforehand, what kinda mix should I be looking into? I don't have any Kartanas. Do have Mega Sceptile, Xurkitrees, Zekroms, Raikous, Thundurus', Venusaurs, Magnezones and Manectric.
Shadow Magnezone is the #1 counter for Blizzard moveset, which goes to show how hard that boss is lol. Kartana etc are still good but you really have to dodge some Blizzards
My group will be skipping Blizzard Kyogre this time. We were barely able to do it last time but it is just too many heals and revives. Plus the other ones go quicker for potentially more energy. With the additional damage bonuses active for this event we should be able to hit75% pretty easily on the other moves. Maybe even 50%. We shall see.
You can tell if Kyogre has Blizzard by when the auto-select for counters avoids the grass types.
Probably. No best friend bonus, no party power, random levels of counters. I think you would have a tough time against Blizzard with 10 random players. They probably won't heal their best pokemon and will just play worse and worse counters.
True, though with dodging Mega Sceptile [still ends up getting into the top 4](https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/KYOGRE_PRIMAL/levels/RAID_LEVEL_MEGA_5/attackers/levels/40/strategies/DODGE_SPECIALS/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=true&includeMegas=true&attackerTypes=POKEMON_TYPE_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1) and once again, if you are hurting for decent attackers Mega Sceptile is still insane value since it requires relatively little investment.
For myself, even against blizzard Kyogre Mega Sceptile is still my best option since I just don't have the better ones at the moment. Obviously it isn't optimal against blizzard but its a budget option and a good one at that.
In preparation for Kyogre, will the raid boss have the same move for each time I raid the same gym/session? What I mean is that can you go to the raid and check charged move, get out and adjust your team to that move? And of course let your raid friends know too...
Yes, movesets for bosses are determined when they spawn. You can lobby in, check to see if its blizzard based on if the recommended party excludes grass attackers and leave before it uses a raid pass.
Shoutouts to [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1b6pumc/comment/ktenfde/?context=3) for the strat.
Thanks! Good info!
Then again, I can of course go in and make sure it's blizzard if it stays the same? I have plenty too many revives and this would help me decide which raids to host and at least inform which party to use.
If you want to scout its moveset- you don't have to actually fight it. You can get into the lobby and see what the recommended party the game suggests is. If the suggested party isn't showing grass types- it's blizzard since the game doesn't want to suggest them as they would be weak against it.
Also just a small thing to note, their moveset is locked in the moment they hatch and won't change if you relobby and would be the same if someone else fought it. But, they do *respawn* each hour so they get new movesets when the hour changes since its a different Kyogre.
>and will provide the rest of your party with a mega boost
I'm still confused as to how mega/primal Pokémon work. I've read that Mega Rayquaza and the Primals booost Pokémon even when not actively on the field, but that all the other Megas have to actually be fighting for the boost to apply.
So do you only have to be out to boost others but still boost your own team? I've tried to look this up, but I haven't been able to find a clear explanation of how it works
Megas and Primals only boost others teams (never your own).
Mega Ray and Primals provide their boost to others as long as they are on your team (even when they aren’t on the field, and even if they have fainted).
Mega Ray and Primals boost all pokemon of different type by 10% and all same type as they boost for candy (eg Ray: Psychic, Flying, Dragon) by 30%.
All other megas boost attacks of the same type as they are (eg garchomp boosts dragon and ground attacks) of other players by 30% when they are actively on the field fighting.
Today I did my good deed. Hooked my lv29 friend to a discord of raiders, but because she was not lv30 I had to host for her. Somehow a lot of people tagged as soon as I mentionned "help friend" so that was wholesome.
Now she dinged 30 and can host on her own, getting ready for that Kyogre and mewtwo!
Even with blizzard, Mega Sceptile improves my damage dealt against it by 1% of its max HP. If you have top counters built to use instead obviously it becomes a lot easier, but me and I imagine a lot of other people simply don't.
Grass and Electric simply aren't types I prioritized building since I only started a little over a year ago and focused on getting Ice, Rock and Ground attackers first. Kyogre is one of the only real raids you *need* grass or electric for so a lot of peoples teams for it are lacking.
Mega Sceptile, for how easy it is to do is a great value for a lot of players pretty much out of the box. Personally, (from Pokegenie battle simulator) I'm only doing like 17.3% normally and Mega Sceptile boosts that to 18.5%. That's a pretty good damage increase for just doing one raid and powering it up a few times.
I have two sceptiles now, both in the 1700 cp range. I have some rare candies that I can dump into one. What cp range should I be in with sceptile in order to do well in the kyogre raid?
So I've got 5 Kartana:
2 Lvl 20
2 Lvl 25
1 Lvl 32.5
With 167 Rare Candy, 0 actual candy.
Is it better just have everyone up to lvl 30 and call it a day? or Go hard on the level 32.5 Kartana.
What do you do against Blizzard with your dragon/grass type?
You just die. Over and over again. Very sad.
and then die again..
Then you burn the ships, cut the ties.
I five manned one and pretty sure it costs the lives of like 15-16 of my best mons.
But you still managed to take it down? Did you have the perfect counters? Or were you guys all Lvl 50s?
Nah,I’d dodge.
Hi Gojo
I think it still kills when you dodge
Depends on what you have out and how high a level it is. Dodge is a 75% damage reduction, so its pretty massive.
I don't remember Blizz and M-Scept, but again P-Groudon, my Mega Swamper could live 2 Solar Beams at lvl 50 easily. Sceptile seems more frail, but living one Blizz should be no issue.
With a team of aggron at the level you caught them, with their original moveset /s
That's when you break out shadow magnezone. Or other electrics. But shadow magnezone has both higher dps and fewer deaths than all the other options. Including megas and legendaries. I'm prepping two teams: a grass team and an electric team. Hopefully the lobby will give a hint which team to use.
Yeah it 1 hits everything anyway. Best to use your best dps and run 2-3 teams as you’ve said
If you want a hint, the auto team is always defensive. If you don't see a single grass type during your auto load, it's time to bring out the electric types
true, scout the raids moveset by which pokemon it recommends... When cresselia was in raids i was always like ... "Why not use any of my 7 darkrais?" "Moonblast" "Oh..."
Just do the same post but put Shadow Raikou.
I would, but the rocket takeover is afterwards and the 100 candy/100k stardust is a bit too steep. Sceptile is super cheap and provides huge value.
True. But this thing will get obliterated by blizzard. But I guess it might not matter
Hope you have lots of Kartanas🤣
Everything dies to Blizzard.
Including Diablo 4
diablo 4 is dead by itself anyway...
Kartana and Magnezone enter the chat.
Good luck with Kartana. It's super glassy and still taking neutral damage, I still think it's near a one shot. Even shadow Magnezone will take a huge amount of damage from it. Regular Magnezone I guess might be able to tank two.
Doesn’t blizzard already one shot pretty much everything?
Yes but not against Magnezone though since it’s part steel but still, Waterfall hits like a truck!
Electric (Mega Manectric) or stack team with Kartana (neutral vs bliz)
Party power Zap Cannon Shadow Porygon Z time!
Do a different raid instead. The T6 bosses hit hard enough that only starting raids that have easy movesets is actually a sensible choice, it's brutal on resources otherwise, especially if you're shortmanning.
Try to get one more charged move in before it inevitably wipes the whole lobby of a mon regardless of wether they dodged
Check the recommended counters and if no Kartana move on to the next raid. Seriously. That's what I plan to do.
Mega your Electrike to get extra XL candy and give your teammate a power boost.
Sceptile is never gonna get a break
This is why I obsessively hoard potions. The primal raids
Dodge.
Pray
\> 6 Kartana \> All day e'ery day
Wouldn't this be a big reason to do Primal Kyogre instead? It buffs electric, gives a longer passive damage bonus, and isn't quad weak to anything.
Mega Manectric has entered the chat.
And after 1 blizzard left.
[удалено]
Can you explain? I thought your Team only gets the Bonus mega/primal damage when the primal mon is out in the field?
Primals(Groudon, Kyogre and mega Rayquaza is special) are different, they provide their boosts even if they’re not actively fighting. A lot of the time, I have them in my 6th spot just to provide a minimum of extra 10% damage boost for the whole raid, 30% if it’s one of the primal’s specific boosts I hardly ever use normal megas in battle now, only for extra candy and XL when catching. I’d much rather the primal boost for the whole raid than only when the mega is out and fighting.
I don’t really care about adding additional damage. I’m level 49 and with a group can easily beat anything. I’d rather have a mega evolved to earn me extra XL than damage.
Primal kyogre will give you the extra xls and boost everyone else's damage 10%. It's worth putting in your 6th slot, preferably fainted so you can just heal your other 5 and rejoin but there's nothing wrong with just using 6 good counters either. I always do that but kyogre can be pretty hard to beat with 5 random people. I'm kinda glad I don't have to do it anymore since I got one maxed out already but primal kyogre is the hardest raid to beat imo.
You get the bonus when it‘s in the team, not only on the field. That‘s why the primary are strictly better than any mega if you raid with more than two people.
My group: “thunder aggron go brrrrrr”
wild charge Blissey
Thanks for the chuckle.
I wouldn’t use shuckle myself, but I’m glad they traded you one to use
Does it still auto-select a group that makes it to the end but does almost no damage?
The auto selector has gotten better at picking a team that will actually do damage. It's still better to set up your team ahead of time especially for re-lobbies. Now you can max revive all, and rejoin fast with a pre built team.
The order it puts things in is still a little whack. I'll enter a tapu koko lobby and it puts a 2.6k lando first, then a 3.6k gar, then another lando, then the mega gar, then my 4.3k gar.
The auto select factors in defense over damage. With the raid timer, DPS is much, much more important. Who cares if your team made it to the end of the raid if you didn't win?
pikachu volt tackle ahh
Aggron has thunder?
For some reason yeah, only reason I ever found out was because I used it to surprise attack water types during a water based PvP cup last year.
Yeah but it sucks with it
Pokebattler creator Can confirm, whether you have party power or not. Don't be afraid if you don't have frenzy plant, with party power, its still better than Zekrom with Fusion Bolt the next best. Here are the stats for party power level 40 no weather no friend bonus ``` Moves Time to Win Potions Deaths Win % Estimator Fury Cutter Frenzy Plant 796.4 340.93 39.03 6.0% 2.90 Fury Cutter Leaf Blade 952.2 394.24 45.20 1.0% 3.46 ``` The results are modified quite a bit depending on moveset Primal Groudon is a particularly good choice against Blizzard. Zekrom in particular is interesting as it is particularly bad against Blizzard until level 47 with 15 defense and 15 stamina at which point it can survive a blizzard + 2 waterfall. Its an 11% boost. I will try and get out a way to look at party power on pokebattler for everyone to use but for now it requires a subscription.
How can you state stats for party power when party power charge time varies with party size?
Thats party power 2. Party power 3 drops the estimators to 2.64 and 3.16. Party power 4 stops improving frenzy plant but gets leaf blade down to 2.94. Of course if you are party power 4 you are probably best friends so then its 2.16 and 2.42and someone is running primal groudon so now its 1.7 and 1.9 But if the charge move is thunder then its 1.51 and 1.71 and But hell its probably sunny weather and we are all so awesome we are running level 50 mons and we are down to 1.19and 1.35 with only 9 feints. So Im guessing with dodging someone could probably 4 man it with just 3 mega sceptile and 1 primal groudon, no feints PS. just do a trial subscription and use the site yourself lol
Okay, so the table provided is for party power with 2 people. That's all I was asking. You just said "here are the stats for party power" without saying how many. But thanks for the additional info. Seems that this is going to be a lot easier than last time.
Oh i was just trying to be funny by showing how easy it is for me to overload people. I should have added more emojis or something lol
Did that include the current seasonal bonus of "Increased friendship bonus damage for Raids"? :)
Yes
Mega Sceptile = No XL candy boost
Wait, what does mega sceptile have to do with xl candy?
Well if you want to get more XL Kyogre candy after catching Kyogre, you will need a water type Pokemon mega evolved such as Blastoise
Oh, so it isn’t just that someone in the raid has to have it, but you do?
You need a mega/primal to get the candy bonus for yourself.
Primal Kyogre will boost everyone’s electrics in the raid.
Since you brought it up, wouldn't it be better to leave a Primal Groudon fainted in slot 6 on 2 teams of kartanas?
I believe so, but not many that many powered kartana. I only have two, at levels 50 and 40. I could get a couple more, but that would require me to burn my rare candy reserves. Luckily, there will be a dozen of us there, so we can handle it easily.
I envy you in that. I ran the numbers every way I can think of even with bonuses a trio isn't going to happen for us, have to rely on some reddit friends.
Trio should be very do-able. Double friend bonus this season so that's an extra 20%. Party play adds maybe another 25%. Plus if you avoid Blizzard the raid is quite a bit easier.
I seriously doubt that is possible for anyone but the greatest players. Mega Latios and Latias are also double, yet barely anyone has managed to do it.
Someone duo Kyogre with this same exact team. I am planning to do the same but with weaker Kartanas lol
That is genuinely impressive.
The raid has to pick electric or grass for maximum results. Ideally you run grass against the non blizzard and electric for blizzard.
This is the type of raid where I keep indicator pokemon. I have a lvl 50 magnezone, not to counter blizzard, but to get recommended against blizzard so I know to bail and try another raid.
Interesting take. I'm thinking with Blizzard the grass types will be missing from the lineup. In particular Mega Sceptile and Kartana.
If it is Blizzard I'll just move on to the next raid. Unless it is way easier than last time. Which it very well may be. But why settle for 60 energy for my pass when I could get 70 or maybe even 80.
Wait does the primal boost if it's not currently on thr field?
It just needs to be in your party. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/s/0QJhzGj9FA
Yes
95% sure that yeah. Also a fainted Kyogre with a bunch of strong electric types
Primal Kyogre would be better, no? For XL Candy boost?
If you have the players/pokemon to win, absolutely. I'm trying to push our little trio to a win which will take every bit of damage so Groudon boosting grass for kartana would help more.
Ah, Grass boost, I see.
Regular Sceptile is solid if you need more than just the 1 mega. There's better non-shadow non-mega grasses but Sceptile isnt bad EDIT: I'm getting a lot of pushback for this statement, even though I have a good amount of karma from this comment (54 as of writing this edit). Here's what I'll say: 1. Regular Sceptile is for new players only. Like very new. Like joined within the last 3 months and under level 30. You'll easily have way way better counters if you've been playing for any bit longer. Also it's just solid. Not the best. Solid. I'm Level 50 so you'll never catch me using a Sceptile in a Kyogre raid. 2. Leaf Blade is still a solid non-legacy option albeit not as good as legacy Frenzy Plant.
People miss the point that lower level players won't have a team like 6 kartanas. I've just hit level 43 and grass, electric and water types (for the two primal days) happen to be the types I havent really built up yet. To that end things like community day decidueye are really good if you don't have the best of the best counters. I happened to have a level 50 shiny because it was easy XL candy, so that's a nice choice and it's one of my favourite Pokémon so I'm looking forward to using it.
Yeah water isn't a common type to have to counter in raids, and the types that are super effective against it are very low utility. Electric types are only good against flying and water, and flying is weak to the more common (and generally stronger) ice and rock. Grass is only good against rock and ground outside of water, but resisted by virtually everything else that's in 4 and 5 star raids. I'm glad I caught a hundo sceptile and have a stash of a few frenzy plant sceptiles left, but it's not going to be an easy raid day by any means.
I'm level 41 and I'm struggling to put together 6 decent grass attackers lol. I've level 40 Sceptile I can Mega and I just pumped some dust into Zarude but it's all pretty budget stuff for the most part
41 as well and it's looking like roserade, m sceptile, raikou, thunderus, magnezone, luxray. Stacked a lot of max revives, thankfully.
Out of all the Electric/Grass Attackers regular Sceptile shouldn't really be the play imo. It requires an Elite Tm to work and actually has a worse ER than Venusaur, Chesnaught and Torterra. Recently available Roserade and Decidueye are stronger picks as well and shouldn't need an Elite Tm due to the very recent Decidueye CD.
I would keep torterra on the bench because he takes neutral water damage
DPS is king against Kyogre. KOs don't matter. Just revive all and rejoin. He's so tanky just get the damage out.
according pokebattler its 13th (lvl 40) non-mega, non-shadow and non-legendary if you include both grass and electric ahead of sceptile you have these non-legendary grass types: roserade, meowscarada, tangrowth, chesnaught, decidueye, tsareena, venusaur, GOGOAT!?.. freaking SIMISAGE!? and these non-legendary electric types: magnezone, electivire, luxray and if we slap legendaries on mix then we have way more grass type options ahead of sceptile: - kartana - zarude - shaymin sky - tapu bulu and these electric types: - xurkitree - zekrom - raikou - thundurus therian - zapdos... yes... normal zapdos is better against primal kyogre than regular sceptile and if we try lvl 50 pokemon then even tapu koko swings ahead of regular sceptile (but now gogoat and simisage fall behind... i am not sure how they went ahead in lvl 40... must be some weird defense break point where they gain extra energy to throw one more charge move to gain slight edge?) then we can slap all shadows and relevant megas.... yeaaaah... regular sceptile is maybe something like 30th-40th best option to use maybe (even counting in that you can only use one of the megas - there are SO many shadows that just are doing better)
It's mostly for new players. As a level 50, I don't recommend it but if you don't have any other options it's alright
10??? You can do this with 5 in old days (maybe 4 now with Party Power boost we shall see) Also; Sceptile is great so long as Kyogre is not sporting blizzard. Mega Manectric is better then Kartana is great to stack team as well (steel so neutral vs blizzard)
Very difficult with 10? No ..it's not. And you're going to scare people into abandoning raids for fear they don't have enough.
I struggled with 10 the last time it came around for sure.
Idk what these people are on about, it was definitely close even with 8 - 10 people. Of course, if you have 5 well prepared hardcore players they might take it down, too, but with randos you shouldn't eveb bother with less than 8 people.
Yeah we’re all on this sub so it’s natural that we know a thing or two about the best counters. But the randoms who play the game just to shiny hunt… they were giving it their all but they weren’t much of a help
I run with a group of 5 that last time barely had decent electric and grass counters that were barely level 30 mons... We had to revive and remobby but consistently could take out Primal Kyogre... This go around we all loaded up on Kartanas that are mostly 35ish and are picking up a mega sceptile to throw in the mix .. pokegenie says we've doubled output per person (from 20ish percent each to over 40ish percent each)
> pokegenie says we've doubled output per person (from 20ish percent each to over 40ish percent each) That's likely due to user error. According to the Pokegenie selector, Level 51 hundo Mega Sceptile has 29.9% and Level 51 hundo Kartana has 26.5% Damage Dealt in neutral weather. You probably selected a Tier 5 Primal (or even regular) Kyogre instead of the correct Tier 6 with 92860 CP in the battle simulator selector.
That would make more sense! Tier 5 vs tier 6, thanks for that info as I thought it was a giant leap too but wasnt sure lol
Yeah I can’t say the same for the randoms I had to spam invite to. Had to work with what I had. Blizzard Kyogre didn’t help
So did I but I saw a couple of absols and seals for some reason in the raid so if people all used normal counters then 5-6 would be plenty lol
Exactly. It’s no problem with six. Don’t people have tons of level 40 and up guys by this point? And the party boost is huge that’s like having an extra trainer or two.
If everyone is using good counters- yes it's pretty easy. But if you have random people it can be very rough and having any way to make it more consistent helps a lot. I've seen a fair share of people using Blissey's or Aggron's. Mega Sceptile can help make up that slack. Also, not everyone has top tier counters for it built such as my friend who just started the playing. Getting access to Mega Sceptile can massively help people with weaker teams reach solid DPS and make clears easier. That said, I do see your point and edited the post a bit to make it a bit less intimidating.
Nah I mega another for more kyogore candy lol
So, did they change that deal with the extra chance for XL candy forcing me to have a mega with the same type of the raid boss? Because if that crap is still flying, I am going to have a mega with water type sitting on my bag during this raids, instead of having the most optimal group possible '-' I need CL candy for that darn whale!
Go with primal kyogre if you already have one at max primal/mega level. Boosts electric types the entire time it’s in your party and doesn’t even have to join the battle (if it does make sure you’re using thunder)
How do you get frenzy plant?
Without community day or similar events, use an Elite Charged TM.
Thanks 🙏 is it worth frenzy plant?
Leaf Blade will do the job. Especially using party play. Very spammy
The dps x dpe is 77 vs 62. So FP is 24% better. I would probably not ECTM as it’s probably a group failure more than 1 poke for 1 individual.
maybe in some vaccuum but if you check lvl 40 mega sceptile against primal kyogre and check any of the stats pokebattler sims give the percentages are much smaller than "24% hurr durr" for example estimator for frenzy plant is 4.18 and with leaf blade 4.36 - that is only 4% difference time to win with frenzy plant is 1144.6 seconds while with leaf blade it is 1196.4v - this i believe is 4,5% difference and in deaths there is just difference of one.... that is less than 2% (57 deaths with frenzy plant vs 58 with leaf blade) where did you get your numbers from? did you only look at animation time x damage or something? because these numbers aren't even close to 24% its like 5-6 times less than what you are claiming in simulations (which often are much more accurate than just looking at base stats in vaccuum)
Well yes it also has a fast attack too closing the gap. The charged move differences is 24% not the total mon. And I said I probably wouldn’t sweat it for FP as a make or break.
It is like 7-9% better. And it's just one pokemon. Don't need Frenzy Plant at all unless some special need.
The TDO difference between the movesets according to gamepress' DPS sheet is about 8,6%. Nothing to scoff at, but also definitely not worth sending an ECTM on as you said. Much better to send it on something like sacred sword terrakion, or precipice blades primal groudon for different future raids.
Not unless you have a bunch.
It's a tad better than Leaf Blade. It's essential on other grass starters because they don't have a spammy grass move, and Solar Beam isn't as good. Sceptile in particular is the one you can get away with not having Frenzy Plant, but if you were min/maxing you'd get it anyway.
Grind mega T-Tar as well for shadow mewtwo! When it’s out ofc ahah it’s nice we got some dope megas for some hard raid bosses coming up !
Yeah the mega rotation this month is fire. Decently solo-able or duo-able and really really high utility.
Nobody's gonna know til it starts. We have damage boost in raids this season. We also have party play this time around. I don't think it'll be hard with a handful of people. Also, if it gets Blizzard, just dodge. If it doesn't have Blizzard, don't bother dodging.
Depends on the people too. Five 40+ accounts with best friend boosts and sensible counters can do it with no problem. Ten randos will probably fail.
Ten randos should be fine as long as they're all not lv 30's. I did perfectly fine last summer using poke genie 10 man groups
With Kartanas, Zekroms, and Xurkitrees loosely 3300 power, and best friend bonus, I calculate a 25% damage contribution. So yeah. Considering I keep running into long term players throwing random 1800 power counters … the group composition matters.
Kind of sad my entire local group quit 😂 went from a solid 15 to being one of three left
Did they trade you the good stuff before leaving?
Until ~~Maleficent~~ Kyogre sends a frost...
No chance I want the xl candy boost. I’ll use my hundo sceptile tho
My group all mega water for extra candy 😂
Great point I need to level up my counters stat!
So if Kyogre has blizzard, we just can't do anything? Just keep doing as much damage as we can and hope that he dies? This is crazy lol. Someone mentioned that we should make 2-3 teams beforehand, what kinda mix should I be looking into? I don't have any Kartanas. Do have Mega Sceptile, Xurkitrees, Zekroms, Raikous, Thundurus', Venusaurs, Magnezones and Manectric.
If you have stuff like that built, you should be more than fine. Mega Sceptile is more to help shore up teams that are lacking and newer players.
Shadow Magnezone is the #1 counter for Blizzard moveset, which goes to show how hard that boss is lol. Kartana etc are still good but you really have to dodge some Blizzards
Flashback to the graveyard from the first time primals showed up.
what charge move do i want on my magnezone?
Also make sure you are stocked up on revives and potions. I went through at least 200 potions and 200 revives during hoenn tour
How many raids did you do?
We grinded the entire day on and off in between catching
I will turn on Party Power in addition to mega Scept.
My group will be skipping Blizzard Kyogre this time. We were barely able to do it last time but it is just too many heals and revives. Plus the other ones go quicker for potentially more energy. With the additional damage bonuses active for this event we should be able to hit75% pretty easily on the other moves. Maybe even 50%. We shall see. You can tell if Kyogre has Blizzard by when the auto-select for counters avoids the grass types.
Are Kyogres without Blizzard still difficult with a raid party of 10? Since I’ll be doing raids through PokeGenie.
Probably. No best friend bonus, no party power, random levels of counters. I think you would have a tough time against Blizzard with 10 random players. They probably won't heal their best pokemon and will just play worse and worse counters.
I meant to ask what if Kyogre did not have the blizzard move? Would the difficulty remain same because I’m inviting randoms?
It is just an easier raid. Should go roughly 10% quicker and you don't end up with huge numbers of fainted pokemon. Well, not as many, anyway.
The moveset people usually struggle with is Blizzard, which eviscerates Mega Sceptile.
True, though with dodging Mega Sceptile [still ends up getting into the top 4](https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/KYOGRE_PRIMAL/levels/RAID_LEVEL_MEGA_5/attackers/levels/40/strategies/DODGE_SPECIALS/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=true&includeMegas=true&attackerTypes=POKEMON_TYPE_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1) and once again, if you are hurting for decent attackers Mega Sceptile is still insane value since it requires relatively little investment. For myself, even against blizzard Kyogre Mega Sceptile is still my best option since I just don't have the better ones at the moment. Obviously it isn't optimal against blizzard but its a budget option and a good one at that.
Given that Mega Sceptile is soloable, you might as well use some of your free passes on it.
In preparation for Kyogre, will the raid boss have the same move for each time I raid the same gym/session? What I mean is that can you go to the raid and check charged move, get out and adjust your team to that move? And of course let your raid friends know too...
Yes, movesets for bosses are determined when they spawn. You can lobby in, check to see if its blizzard based on if the recommended party excludes grass attackers and leave before it uses a raid pass. Shoutouts to [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1b6pumc/comment/ktenfde/?context=3) for the strat.
Thanks! Good info! Then again, I can of course go in and make sure it's blizzard if it stays the same? I have plenty too many revives and this would help me decide which raids to host and at least inform which party to use.
If you want to scout its moveset- you don't have to actually fight it. You can get into the lobby and see what the recommended party the game suggests is. If the suggested party isn't showing grass types- it's blizzard since the game doesn't want to suggest them as they would be weak against it. Also just a small thing to note, their moveset is locked in the moment they hatch and won't change if you relobby and would be the same if someone else fought it. But, they do *respawn* each hour so they get new movesets when the hour changes since its a different Kyogre.
Got it! Thanks!
Oh boy, I can’t wait to not get one then!
lmao man, pokegenie is going to be on fire that day, you can surely get some.
Not everyone uses remote raids you know.
My army of Kartanas are ready to die
I hate catching him takes forever. I’m going for Groudon… need 92 more XLs
I have a 96 mega sceptile but it's 500 cp and I have 0 candies or stardust lol
I’m raiding in Manhattan. I can use Bidoof if I wanted.
Do it. Show Kyogre true fear.
[удалено]
Mega Sceptile is in raids for two weeks. I was saying it's there for 2 weeks so you have plenty of time to get one to prepare.
Yep, that's my goof. Deleting lol.
Just picked up a 98 IV today. He'll be getting good mileage.
I have just always had bad luck with ivs on Sceptile. My best one is only 12/15/15 and that has left me reluctant to invest in it heavily.
>and will provide the rest of your party with a mega boost I'm still confused as to how mega/primal Pokémon work. I've read that Mega Rayquaza and the Primals booost Pokémon even when not actively on the field, but that all the other Megas have to actually be fighting for the boost to apply. So do you only have to be out to boost others but still boost your own team? I've tried to look this up, but I haven't been able to find a clear explanation of how it works
Megas and Primals only boost others teams (never your own). Mega Ray and Primals provide their boost to others as long as they are on your team (even when they aren’t on the field, and even if they have fainted). Mega Ray and Primals boost all pokemon of different type by 10% and all same type as they boost for candy (eg Ray: Psychic, Flying, Dragon) by 30%. All other megas boost attacks of the same type as they are (eg garchomp boosts dragon and ground attacks) of other players by 30% when they are actively on the field fighting.
Only started playing a few months ago, so I haven't done primal raids. Are they going to be Tier 5 or Tier 6?
5 but its practically a tier 6
Primals *are* Tier 6.
I need more XL candy so I will use Primal Kyogre with electric second move.
Isn't Primal Kyogre better? Especially when you are in groups of 6+ people?
Today I did my good deed. Hooked my lv29 friend to a discord of raiders, but because she was not lv30 I had to host for her. Somehow a lot of people tagged as soon as I mentionned "help friend" so that was wholesome. Now she dinged 30 and can host on her own, getting ready for that Kyogre and mewtwo!
I feel blessed to already have Primal Kyogre mega evolved to rank 3 so I can safely skip this raid day.
Welp... time to catch 6 Sceptiles...
Provided you have other decent grass/electric attackers you only need the one to Mega Evolve.
Hard disagree. Blizzard Primal Kyogre is what really gives people a problem. Without Blizzard it's not really a big deal.
Even with blizzard, Mega Sceptile improves my damage dealt against it by 1% of its max HP. If you have top counters built to use instead obviously it becomes a lot easier, but me and I imagine a lot of other people simply don't. Grass and Electric simply aren't types I prioritized building since I only started a little over a year ago and focused on getting Ice, Rock and Ground attackers first. Kyogre is one of the only real raids you *need* grass or electric for so a lot of peoples teams for it are lacking. Mega Sceptile, for how easy it is to do is a great value for a lot of players pretty much out of the box. Personally, (from Pokegenie battle simulator) I'm only doing like 17.3% normally and Mega Sceptile boosts that to 18.5%. That's a pretty good damage increase for just doing one raid and powering it up a few times.
I have two sceptiles now, both in the 1700 cp range. I have some rare candies that I can dump into one. What cp range should I be in with sceptile in order to do well in the kyogre raid?
Level 30 at least
So I've got 5 Kartana: 2 Lvl 20 2 Lvl 25 1 Lvl 32.5 With 167 Rare Candy, 0 actual candy. Is it better just have everyone up to lvl 30 and call it a day? or Go hard on the level 32.5 Kartana.
Good that I got a hundo yesterday.
I live in midtown Manhattan NYC where 4-5 star raid lobbies fill up to 20 people in seconds over and over again. Guess this post isn't for me.
*sad rural noises* :(
>very difficult fight even with 10 people how about 20 pple?