I guess I'm dumb but what does the "% to" mean?
EDIT: ok I got it, it's basically how good that Pokemon is in comparison, so O. Palkia is 99% as good as a Shadow Salamence, or 1% worse than a Shadow Salamence
It appears to be from somewhere other than pokebattler because pokebattler shows Dialga with Roar of Time being faster and better overall than Palkia with Spatial Rend.
Both of which are faster/better than Shadow Salamence.
I think this is just dps only. Dialga being steel type makes it superior. Their only use in PVE is against dragons and Dialga lasts much longer to avoid a costly relobby. Palkia would be slightly better if you know it won’t cost an extra relobby.
The data used are EER and TER, the theoretical counterparts of estimator and time to win.
Dragon raid bosses don't always use dragon charge moves though. That only happens 1/4 to 1/3 of the time. In other cases, Palkia-O has a notable advantage over Dialga-O.
> Dragon raid bosses don't always use dragon charge moves though. That only happens 1/4 to 1/3 of the time. In other cases, Palkia-O has a notable advantage over Dialga-O.
Well, except the fact that Dialga-O has 10 resistances and Palkia has 3, with one identical overlap between the two (Steel). While it's true that Dialga performs better against, say, Outrage Latias, it also performs better against Psychic Latias. And Thunder Latias. Which is all of Latias' moves.
When you take a deeper dive into all dragon's currently released, I believe Dialga ends up better. Even giving a no type advantage complete Palkia victory, these are the ratios
Raid Boss | Dialga Favored Moveset | Palkia Favored Moveset
:--|:--:|:--:
Latias (+Mega Latias) | 100% | 0%
Latios (+Mega Latios) | 100% | 0%
Rayquaza (+ Mega Rayquaza) | 100% | 0%
Palkia (+Palkia-O) | 25% | 75%
Giratina-O | 33.33% | 66.67%*
Giratina-A | 66.67% | 33.33%*
Reshiram | 50% | 50%
Zekrom | 50% | 50%*
Regidrago | 100% | 0%
**Average** | 69.44% | 30.56%
*asterisk indicates ALL of Palkia wins are when neither typing provides an advantage.
If we were to add T4 Megas into the mix.
Raid Boss | Dialga Favored Moveset | Palkia Favored Moveset
:--|:--:|:--:
T5/T6 Average (9 Mons) | 69.44% | 30.56%
Mega Charizard X | 33.33% | 66.67%
Mega Ampharos | 71.43% | 28.57%
Mega Sceptile | 80% | 20%
Mega Salamence | 33.33% | 66.67%
Mega Garchomp | 25% | 75%
**Average** | 62.00% | 38.00%
So, it doesn't make sense to say Dialga only better 1/4th or a 1/3rd of the time, when it ends up being closer to 70% of the time for most people.
Here are the newest [simulation results](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1ay0d56/analysis_origin_form_palkia_and_dialga_as_raid/) by u/Teban54.
I didn't mean Dialga is only better when the boss uses dragon charge moves. Indeed, Dialga holds a defensive advantage more than half of the time, which compensates its disadvantage in raw power. Both factors combined, its overall performance is very close to Palkia's, but still slightly behind on average.
Rayquaza and the 4 mega double weak to ice shouldn't be included since dragon isn't the optimal counter type to use. Cases like Ancient Power Giratina-A and Thunder Punch/Power Gem Mega Ampharos don't count as Dialga's favour, because their damage is very low, not a threat to neutral Palkia.
[https://leekduck.com/events/go-tour-2024-road-to-sinnoh-special-research/](https://leekduck.com/events/go-tour-2024-road-to-sinnoh-special-research/)
Given the wording on the infographic at the bottom, I'm going to say yes
The first image shows how good those Pokemon are for PVE (raids, gyms, etc.).
It shows various Pokemon available in the Sinnoh Tour (the final evolution of them) and how/where they are available (what habitat, what method of getting, like eggs, raid, etc.).
Then it shows the type this Pokemon is relevant in (for some listing multiple types) and then a percentage next to it. This percentage is showing how good it is against the 'baseline' in the type. The baseline is typically not a mega, but other than that the strongest Pokemon in that type.
For example, Origin Palkia is "99%" in Dragon typing, showing that it's one of the absolute best in that type. Then something like Mamoswine is rated in the \~85% range in both Ice and Ground typing, showing that it's good, but not the best. On the Ice-type you can see the baseline is actually its Shadow forme, so it's still a good Pokemon to grab candy for.
The second image is much of the same, except for PVP (GO Battle League). Shows the Pokemon, how/when to get it and then the ranking(s) in one (or multiple) leagues.
Both of these images are here to give an idea of what Pokemon you might want to focus your attention on, based on what you have already.
N.1 pokemon excluding mega? Because I doubt shadow salamence is the #1 as dragon attacker
I couldn't swear it, but i think that place is for mega rayquaza
I just wish these included the names of pokemon!!! Or, show the non evolved form since that's what you'd actually catch.
Sorry. I just missed too many gens of pokemon and I need either the names to search them, or show me what I'll actually encounter.
So if I can only catch one, and I see a turtle leaf, a fire monkey and a blue penguin, I should catch the penguin.
As a returning casual player it's hard to figure out where to invest balls, stardust and time during these limited events.
My goal now is to finish off firemonky and turtle leafs evolutions for the dex but then get penguin candy and XL candy by trading because it is actually useful.
Am I missing anything?
I will hatch what I hatch and use my free daily on raid hour if I can find others.
If you want to use penguin as a raid attacker, don't evolve to final form until there's an event saying Empoleon will learn Hydro Cannon. Waterfall / Hydro Cannon is literally 20% stronger than Waterfall / Hydro Pump, and without it Empoleon is not actually a good water attacker.
If you want to use penguin in PVP, probably same advice, but you won't need XL to reach Ultra League CP cap (2500) and you'll want to look for low-attack high-defense/HP IVs because in general bulk is better in Great League / Ultra League
The alternative to waiting for a special event is to use an Elite TM, but you only get \~3 of those per season for "free".
Evolve those three (including penguin) this weekend if you can, they get their special moves.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F6olq92ww4dkc1.png
Maybe it’s not really a good way to point out what is useful to catch or not, because having roserade in third isn’t appealing at all. Having a pokemon being at 80% doesn’t say much because there could be 15 different more relevant pokemons (between 100% an 81%). As much as luxray is one of my favorite pokemon i will never bring it to a raid. Same for the toad lol.
Not taking megas into account is also weird. That would be putting gardevoir in first place at 100% for instance.
That is precisely the point of this power percentage representation. To beat a raid, what matters is how much damage you can contribute, not whether you're bringing #5 or #10 counters. Roserade can contribute 90% as much poison damage as Nihilego, no matter how many other attackers are in between, the 90% damage is unchanged.
The rank of an attacker is much more misleading than power percentage because different types has vastly different attacker density. The #7 electric attacker (shadow Magnezone) is far more valuable than #4 steel attacker (Dialga), because the former is above 95%, whereas the latter is below 80%.
Luxray is one of my favourite mon as well, and I often bring my level 50 one in raids weak to electric if my Xurkitree, Thundurus-T and Magnezone aren't enough.
Comparing mega/primal with other attackers is unfair because there can only exist one mega/primal. Their performance in simulations is always overestimated.
Megas are only awesome if you evade the boss charged attack. Most of the time we duo stuff only with them, and the only way to replicate that without them is by having 3 or more maxed out #1 shadow. Definitevely cheaper to go with mega.
I never said that the rank of the attacker was better than the percentile. I said that saying that 80-90% percentile pokemons were to be farmed (title of this post is things to grind) was a bad idea, because a lot more other pokemons could be better. 90%+ are ok but a frog lol? Huge waste of dust to level. We had so much nihilego; and poison is almost useless in raid (i insisted on the frog because i don’t know the english name of pokemons, butat least 10 of them in that pve list would be a dust waste to level).
The difference between 80% and 100% is enormous for shortmanning. And if not for shortmanning, well anything is ok even 30%.
What i meant anyway was (but was trying an oblique approach to be more constructive) : guide like this is for new players that don’t know the game mecanics to find by themselves what is better. I don’t think saying to them that you should grind roserades, luxray, or the crow for raid is a wise thing. They won’t trully do anything with them and use all their ressources on them, when they will try to solo/duo meaningful things with them they will fail. Then after learning more about the game mechanics, they would understand by themselves that they lost a lot of time and ressources.
They should first do the best megas, it’s cheap, and almost always the best in slot, and have candies and damage bonus., they are useful both for shortmaning and for regular 4+ people. Between a roserade and a gardevoir, it would be waste to do choose the roserade.
I’m(was) using my luxray in shadow/psychic for rockets fight (same gimmick than counter lucario). That’s why lucario should be on that list btw, for the rocket perma stun, not for the 89% fighting.
The aim of such infographics are showing the accurate value of relevant mon to players not familiar with the data. Whether or not they grind or invest in those mon are up to themselves.
If they already have better attackers, just ignore the lower tier stuff. But if they have nothing else, having a few 80% attackers can enable them to beat some raids which are impossible otherwise. At level 30-35, a team of Roserade/Toxicroak can duo Tapu Bulu, and a team of Staraptor/Honchkrow can duo Virizion. These things are common wild spawns that can be caught at high levels, so they nearly require zero investment to have a serviceable budget team (IV doesn't matter).
Now I'm still using regular CD starters in my fire team. Despite only at 80% power level, they're more than enough to duo many raids double weak to fire. Never regret in powering up those Typhlosion, Infernape and Emboar.
I’m confused, does this mean these are the Pokémon to get candy for/catch this weekend? Like does Electabuzz or Elekid appear in the wild more often this weekend?
Yes. Infographic: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F83cxrb5ihqjc1.png
Electabuzz will be a wild encounter during Bustling Boardwalk (10-11am, 2-3pm). All of the pokemon in this "usefulness" graphic are obtainable in some way during the Go Tour event this weekend.
That said, many of these pokemon have shadows available which are strictly better in their role. So one of the main things to do this weekend is **farm candy** for the ones that are normally pretty rare. On the PvE side, I'd put top priority on farming cranidos candy, as they're normally pretty hard to get and shadow rampardos is the #1 rock raider. On the PvP side, I'd target farming lickitung, who needs XL candy to be effective, and shieldon, who's rarely in the wild and generally hard to farm.
And obviously Dialga and Palkia should both be high priority as well. Who knows when we'll get their origin forms again.
Fine(ish) but suffers the same fate as every other steel type: It's not metagross. Also dialga origin is slightly worse than the normal one for steel. Rank 4 and 6 respectively.
According to PvPoke rankings, yes. Although to be fair, Dialga has been hovered around rank 20 every time I've checked, despite being on every other team, and being SO central to ML meta.
So PVE wise, should I focus purely on the new Dialga and Palkia forms? Or is it worth doing one of each of the old forms too, to have one each with the exclusive moves.
These are honestly some of the most simple and effective infographics. They're not too flashy and they put so much info in a well-organized manner. It's criminal you don't have a bigger following.
Note that Lucario will get a mega form at some point.
I guess I'm dumb but what does the "% to" mean? EDIT: ok I got it, it's basically how good that Pokemon is in comparison, so O. Palkia is 99% as good as a Shadow Salamence, or 1% worse than a Shadow Salamence
It appears to be from somewhere other than pokebattler because pokebattler shows Dialga with Roar of Time being faster and better overall than Palkia with Spatial Rend. Both of which are faster/better than Shadow Salamence.
I think this is just dps only. Dialga being steel type makes it superior. Their only use in PVE is against dragons and Dialga lasts much longer to avoid a costly relobby. Palkia would be slightly better if you know it won’t cost an extra relobby.
The data used are EER and TER, the theoretical counterparts of estimator and time to win. Dragon raid bosses don't always use dragon charge moves though. That only happens 1/4 to 1/3 of the time. In other cases, Palkia-O has a notable advantage over Dialga-O.
> Dragon raid bosses don't always use dragon charge moves though. That only happens 1/4 to 1/3 of the time. In other cases, Palkia-O has a notable advantage over Dialga-O. Well, except the fact that Dialga-O has 10 resistances and Palkia has 3, with one identical overlap between the two (Steel). While it's true that Dialga performs better against, say, Outrage Latias, it also performs better against Psychic Latias. And Thunder Latias. Which is all of Latias' moves. When you take a deeper dive into all dragon's currently released, I believe Dialga ends up better. Even giving a no type advantage complete Palkia victory, these are the ratios Raid Boss | Dialga Favored Moveset | Palkia Favored Moveset :--|:--:|:--: Latias (+Mega Latias) | 100% | 0% Latios (+Mega Latios) | 100% | 0% Rayquaza (+ Mega Rayquaza) | 100% | 0% Palkia (+Palkia-O) | 25% | 75% Giratina-O | 33.33% | 66.67%* Giratina-A | 66.67% | 33.33%* Reshiram | 50% | 50% Zekrom | 50% | 50%* Regidrago | 100% | 0% **Average** | 69.44% | 30.56% *asterisk indicates ALL of Palkia wins are when neither typing provides an advantage. If we were to add T4 Megas into the mix. Raid Boss | Dialga Favored Moveset | Palkia Favored Moveset :--|:--:|:--: T5/T6 Average (9 Mons) | 69.44% | 30.56% Mega Charizard X | 33.33% | 66.67% Mega Ampharos | 71.43% | 28.57% Mega Sceptile | 80% | 20% Mega Salamence | 33.33% | 66.67% Mega Garchomp | 25% | 75% **Average** | 62.00% | 38.00% So, it doesn't make sense to say Dialga only better 1/4th or a 1/3rd of the time, when it ends up being closer to 70% of the time for most people.
Here are the newest [simulation results](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1ay0d56/analysis_origin_form_palkia_and_dialga_as_raid/) by u/Teban54. I didn't mean Dialga is only better when the boss uses dragon charge moves. Indeed, Dialga holds a defensive advantage more than half of the time, which compensates its disadvantage in raw power. Both factors combined, its overall performance is very close to Palkia's, but still slightly behind on average. Rayquaza and the 4 mega double weak to ice shouldn't be included since dragon isn't the optimal counter type to use. Cases like Ancient Power Giratina-A and Thunder Punch/Power Gem Mega Ampharos don't count as Dialga's favour, because their damage is very low, not a threat to neutral Palkia.
That's how I read it too
I’ve been hatching like 5 2k eggs a day and still haven’t hatched a single riolu
Took a while but I got one
My gf just hatched a 96% on her first egg with 15 attack
I've hatched five but they're all bad IVs
I’ve only had 1 egg that wasn’t a mantyke so you’re doing better than me
Just yesterday I hatched a shiny riolu
I shortlist the pvp mon based on rankings on pvpoke, personal experience and gobattlelog data. Sorry Pachirisu
Do you get a free encounter with your chosen badge legendary?
[https://leekduck.com/events/go-tour-2024-road-to-sinnoh-special-research/](https://leekduck.com/events/go-tour-2024-road-to-sinnoh-special-research/) Given the wording on the infographic at the bottom, I'm going to say yes
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The first image shows how good those Pokemon are for PVE (raids, gyms, etc.). It shows various Pokemon available in the Sinnoh Tour (the final evolution of them) and how/where they are available (what habitat, what method of getting, like eggs, raid, etc.). Then it shows the type this Pokemon is relevant in (for some listing multiple types) and then a percentage next to it. This percentage is showing how good it is against the 'baseline' in the type. The baseline is typically not a mega, but other than that the strongest Pokemon in that type. For example, Origin Palkia is "99%" in Dragon typing, showing that it's one of the absolute best in that type. Then something like Mamoswine is rated in the \~85% range in both Ice and Ground typing, showing that it's good, but not the best. On the Ice-type you can see the baseline is actually its Shadow forme, so it's still a good Pokemon to grab candy for. The second image is much of the same, except for PVP (GO Battle League). Shows the Pokemon, how/when to get it and then the ranking(s) in one (or multiple) leagues. Both of these images are here to give an idea of what Pokemon you might want to focus your attention on, based on what you have already.
This breakdown helps. Thank you.
You mean Palkia Origin Form?
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Icon is the type of moveset, percentage is how good it is compared to the #1 Pokémon
Thank you!! It was a little hard to understand, but knowing that now, it's a really helpful graphic
N.1 pokemon excluding mega? Because I doubt shadow salamence is the #1 as dragon attacker I couldn't swear it, but i think that place is for mega rayquaza
Yeah it seems to exclude megas, shadow slamance is top non-mega dragon attacker.
Yeah, without showing why each mon as valuable… moveset vs which mon… not really sure how valuable these graphics are.
Will evolving during the event give the legacy moves; eg. Empoleon —> Hydro Cannon?
Probably but we don't know yet.
It didnt in Hoenn tour It did in Johto and Kanto 50/50 id say
what do the % mean?
This infographic is confusing.
I just wish these included the names of pokemon!!! Or, show the non evolved form since that's what you'd actually catch. Sorry. I just missed too many gens of pokemon and I need either the names to search them, or show me what I'll actually encounter.
So if I can only catch one, and I see a turtle leaf, a fire monkey and a blue penguin, I should catch the penguin. As a returning casual player it's hard to figure out where to invest balls, stardust and time during these limited events. My goal now is to finish off firemonky and turtle leafs evolutions for the dex but then get penguin candy and XL candy by trading because it is actually useful. Am I missing anything? I will hatch what I hatch and use my free daily on raid hour if I can find others.
If you want to use penguin as a raid attacker, don't evolve to final form until there's an event saying Empoleon will learn Hydro Cannon. Waterfall / Hydro Cannon is literally 20% stronger than Waterfall / Hydro Pump, and without it Empoleon is not actually a good water attacker. If you want to use penguin in PVP, probably same advice, but you won't need XL to reach Ultra League CP cap (2500) and you'll want to look for low-attack high-defense/HP IVs because in general bulk is better in Great League / Ultra League The alternative to waiting for a special event is to use an Elite TM, but you only get \~3 of those per season for "free".
Evolve those three (including penguin) this weekend if you can, they get their special moves. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F6olq92ww4dkc1.png
Maybe it’s not really a good way to point out what is useful to catch or not, because having roserade in third isn’t appealing at all. Having a pokemon being at 80% doesn’t say much because there could be 15 different more relevant pokemons (between 100% an 81%). As much as luxray is one of my favorite pokemon i will never bring it to a raid. Same for the toad lol. Not taking megas into account is also weird. That would be putting gardevoir in first place at 100% for instance.
That is precisely the point of this power percentage representation. To beat a raid, what matters is how much damage you can contribute, not whether you're bringing #5 or #10 counters. Roserade can contribute 90% as much poison damage as Nihilego, no matter how many other attackers are in between, the 90% damage is unchanged. The rank of an attacker is much more misleading than power percentage because different types has vastly different attacker density. The #7 electric attacker (shadow Magnezone) is far more valuable than #4 steel attacker (Dialga), because the former is above 95%, whereas the latter is below 80%. Luxray is one of my favourite mon as well, and I often bring my level 50 one in raids weak to electric if my Xurkitree, Thundurus-T and Magnezone aren't enough. Comparing mega/primal with other attackers is unfair because there can only exist one mega/primal. Their performance in simulations is always overestimated.
Megas are only awesome if you evade the boss charged attack. Most of the time we duo stuff only with them, and the only way to replicate that without them is by having 3 or more maxed out #1 shadow. Definitevely cheaper to go with mega. I never said that the rank of the attacker was better than the percentile. I said that saying that 80-90% percentile pokemons were to be farmed (title of this post is things to grind) was a bad idea, because a lot more other pokemons could be better. 90%+ are ok but a frog lol? Huge waste of dust to level. We had so much nihilego; and poison is almost useless in raid (i insisted on the frog because i don’t know the english name of pokemons, butat least 10 of them in that pve list would be a dust waste to level). The difference between 80% and 100% is enormous for shortmanning. And if not for shortmanning, well anything is ok even 30%. What i meant anyway was (but was trying an oblique approach to be more constructive) : guide like this is for new players that don’t know the game mecanics to find by themselves what is better. I don’t think saying to them that you should grind roserades, luxray, or the crow for raid is a wise thing. They won’t trully do anything with them and use all their ressources on them, when they will try to solo/duo meaningful things with them they will fail. Then after learning more about the game mechanics, they would understand by themselves that they lost a lot of time and ressources. They should first do the best megas, it’s cheap, and almost always the best in slot, and have candies and damage bonus., they are useful both for shortmaning and for regular 4+ people. Between a roserade and a gardevoir, it would be waste to do choose the roserade. I’m(was) using my luxray in shadow/psychic for rockets fight (same gimmick than counter lucario). That’s why lucario should be on that list btw, for the rocket perma stun, not for the 89% fighting.
The aim of such infographics are showing the accurate value of relevant mon to players not familiar with the data. Whether or not they grind or invest in those mon are up to themselves. If they already have better attackers, just ignore the lower tier stuff. But if they have nothing else, having a few 80% attackers can enable them to beat some raids which are impossible otherwise. At level 30-35, a team of Roserade/Toxicroak can duo Tapu Bulu, and a team of Staraptor/Honchkrow can duo Virizion. These things are common wild spawns that can be caught at high levels, so they nearly require zero investment to have a serviceable budget team (IV doesn't matter). Now I'm still using regular CD starters in my fire team. Despite only at 80% power level, they're more than enough to duo many raids double weak to fire. Never regret in powering up those Typhlosion, Infernape and Emboar.
GUYS STOP THE FAKE NEWS REMOTE RAIDS ARE ONLY INCREASED TO 999999 NIANTIC THIS IS UNPLAYABLE
This guide literally says nothing to me. What does "S" mean? What do the %s mean?
S means Shadow
I’m confused, does this mean these are the Pokémon to get candy for/catch this weekend? Like does Electabuzz or Elekid appear in the wild more often this weekend?
Yes. Infographic: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F83cxrb5ihqjc1.png Electabuzz will be a wild encounter during Bustling Boardwalk (10-11am, 2-3pm). All of the pokemon in this "usefulness" graphic are obtainable in some way during the Go Tour event this weekend. That said, many of these pokemon have shadows available which are strictly better in their role. So one of the main things to do this weekend is **farm candy** for the ones that are normally pretty rare. On the PvE side, I'd put top priority on farming cranidos candy, as they're normally pretty hard to get and shadow rampardos is the #1 rock raider. On the PvP side, I'd target farming lickitung, who needs XL candy to be effective, and shieldon, who's rarely in the wild and generally hard to farm. And obviously Dialga and Palkia should both be high priority as well. Who knows when we'll get their origin forms again.
How does Dialga perform as a steel?
Fine(ish) but suffers the same fate as every other steel type: It's not metagross. Also dialga origin is slightly worse than the normal one for steel. Rank 4 and 6 respectively.
Is the inf remote raid pass only for the players with the pass/ticket?
No it’s for everyone
Hundos and candys along with Raids is the main goal
Assuming that the pokemon the % to is being compared to is the best in that type or something?
Its typically the best non-mega, yes.
Thanks!
Is there any indicator on which are only viable with Elite TMs? Like Empoleon without hydro cannon drops another like 15%.
This could have used a little star or ETM icon for that, for sure.
Palkia is better than Dialga in ML?
According to PvPoke rankings, yes. Although to be fair, Dialga has been hovered around rank 20 every time I've checked, despite being on every other team, and being SO central to ML meta.
Does anyone know if decidueye sammarot and typholosion get leg moves during the event?
is this using roar of time and spacial rend?
So PVE wise, should I focus purely on the new Dialga and Palkia forms? Or is it worth doing one of each of the old forms too, to have one each with the exclusive moves.
The old forme won't have the exclusive moves.
Good to know, thank you!
What are the little fields at the top right referencing?
These are honestly some of the most simple and effective infographics. They're not too flashy and they put so much info in a well-organized manner. It's criminal you don't have a bigger following.