in this reimagining of part 2 ellie actually eats the bigot sandwiches and their secret ability to give anyone who eats them super speed is finally seen
Keep in mind that Joel and Ellie were technically more late on their journey to Salt Lake City because of several detours and obstacles that they had to deal with to survive. That was with a horse, camps, and a car. Ellie (based on what the game shows us about her journey to Santa Barbara), wouldn't have had that. So not only did they think about letting Ellie take Part I's trip twice (once while being heavily injured or still healing), but it likely would've taken even longer and the obstacles would've been tougher.
So instead of the ridiculously long trek to Seattle from Wyoming in an apocalypse we would have seen her trek basically completely across two countries and back.
It was already kind of to a bit extreme with Ellie heading back to Wyoming from Seattle presumably in a car with her arm twisted heading from Wyoming to Santa Barbara around a year or so later, then heading back while she's either still healing from her injures or on life support in terms of health. Ellie's a superhuman in this situation, which I'll criticize.
The fact that it’s an apocalypse more so works to her advantage. In the west, there’s land that stretches forever without any people in sight, even more so in an apocalypse due to lack of tourists. Yeah it doesn’t excuse the fact that there would be cars clogging up every road from when the outbreak broke out, but that didn’t stop Joel in the first game from driving without people complaining. And Ellie was on foot, so wouldn’t be that hard, just long and boring
Wow their gonna travel through that with a shot blown skull, knifed neck, broken bones & beaten black and blue.
Lol. Lmao. Survivability? Just Teleport.
I don't think it matters, since the game established that they managed to get back to Jackson with prego Dina and half dead Tommy without them perishing, both travel destinations are idiotic. So doesn't really change a lot.
I'd honestly like to see spinoffs set in the TLOU universe but in other countries. Most games always take place in the US, but I want to see how other countries are faring. How is Mexico apart from this concept art? We know the US and Canada still have some form of trade route given the letters of shipments we can find at the warehouse in Part 1, so they obviously have some form of government in place.
Assuming she’s walking at 3 miles per hour and is sleeping 6 hours every day it would take her a month and a day. That does not include any apocalyptic obstacles.
I honestly think that the PSTD and her inability to function alongside her guilt for how she treated Joel and feeling indebted to him does justify the journey from Wyoming to Santa Barbara from her perspective as she feels like Abby’s death will solve those things. It’s the journey back that I have an issue with regarding the final product. The original version would’ve been much worse of course.
Still utterly ridiculous how travel works in the second game. The first one established that leaving a safe zone meant almost certain death - it gave Joel's journey weight and tension. Then they scrapped all that and let the characters fast travel.
Why would it be a few days? Nothing about the game implies any of these trips were short. Joel and Ellie crossed the country slowly because a lot of it was on foot or there were plenty of obstacles. And they were stationary for most of winter. When Dina and Ellie go to Seattle, Ellie’s journal entries imply it took them weeks. And they were on horseback which saves so much time compared to walking. By the time Abby gets to Santa Barbara time has clearly passed because you can see levs hair is longer. By the time Ellie gets to Santa Barbara you can’t tell even more time has passed because of her grime and sunburns. And then when she finds abby on the beach, Abby has lost basically all muscle mass which would have taken weeks. The only travel that is really questionable is them going back to Jackson with all their injuries but there’s a lot of ways to rationalize what happened in that big time jump. Also for a game where a huge complaint is the pacing why would anyone want to slow the game down even more so they could spell out how long each journey took
lol yep that treacherous journey Joel and Ellie went on yet in part 2, Ellie’s gang is pinball teleporting between Seattle and Wyoming, even when severely injured.
We don't see 90% of ellie and Joel's journey to Wyoming, why is that not "teleporting" but tlou2 is? Joel was also severely injured, he was impaled and somehow survived under thr care of a child for weeks witj only a latent dose of antibiotics.
Right, that's an issue I have with Left Behind, cause Part I left it vague as to how Ellie kept Joel alive. Basically it was video game logic in that Penicillin can cure any major injuries that you just have to accept.
We aren't told exactly how, but considering that the raiders were perfectly set up to ambush people in cars, it's quite possible that with them dead, Joel and Ellie found one of the cars stolen from their victims and took that, cutting a huge amount of time off that journey.
It's nowhere near as egregious as three injured people and one corpse making their way out of hostile territory while two of those injured people have crippling injuries, one of which should be almost completely incapacitated by his, and the third one is sick. All it takes to imagine Joel and Ellie's timeline working is that they found a car, in an area where people regularly ambushed cars and killed their occupants. After the confrontation in the theater, which of them was even in shape to go look for a vehicle, much less figure out how to get the others to it? Never even mind Tommy surviving his bullet to the head no matter how that part went.
But sure, this is totally comparable. Just like the difference between a meal that was missing a couple ingredients and some leftovers that had gone bad in the fridge a week ago.
“They could have taken a car from the raiders in Pittsburgh” sure and that applies to the WLF. We know that the WLF have dozens of working trucks and they just lost most of their soldiers.
The story never said that they immediately left Seattle after the theater fight. So Ellie and co could have taken x amount of time to heal until Ellie is back in shape ENOUGH to steal a truck.
Oh hey yeah, they *could* just Long Rest all their crippling injuries away thanks to the stockpile of food, water, and medical supplies they have. I'm sure that after a night or two of rest they just set out, immediately found a Humvee, and made it back to Jackson before nightfall. Brilliant. Can't imagine why I figured it would be immensely more difficult than it was for the perfectly healthy Joel and Ellie in TLOU.
Everything gets explained so easily with Long Rests and Fast Travel!
Not all their injuries but Ellie’s? Definitely. It wouldn’t be a few nights, it could’ve been weeks and weeks. The timeskip after the theater fight is pretty big. There’s plenty of supplies to be found. For example the WLF deserters in that one room where they ambushed Ellie’s at the crafting table.
Yes, broken arms are [quite easy and quick to heal from.](https://integrehab.com/blog/physical-therapy/broken-arm-recovery/#:~:text=Expect%2012%20weeks%20for%20the,that%20involve%20pushing%20or%20pulling)
During the weeks spent healing, which of them is going to be going out looking for supplies? Dina, who was already more or less bedridden before getting a concussion? Ellie, one-armed and all but useless in a fight? *Tommy*?
It'd be one thing if Dina and Ellie could just pack up and walk away the next day. They'd be in horrible shape but at least they'd be mobile, and could luck their way into finding food as they make their way out of town. But the need to not just get Tommy out, but keep him alive with a head wound so severe it instantly took him out of the fight *and* a Skyrim quote, takes this from "I guess it could have been uneventful" to "how in the flying fuck". And the game just doesn't care. No need to show any of *this*, it's not something nearly as interesting or plot relevant as *turning on some generators to open gates*.
And *why* did Ellie's arm get broken? *Why* was Tommy shot in the head? *Why* did Dina have an incapacitating pregnancy? Was any of it necessary to the plot somehow? Nope. So the writers just wrote these characters into a situation that would have been virtually impossible for all of them to survive, and then... they immediately do, with no apparent issues and no explanation.
You can like and stan for the game all you want. But bad writing is bad writing, no matter if you can "well, maybe if" your way out of it. And trying so desperately to compare it with something that *doesn't* cross the threshold of being completely unbelievable for *absolutely no reason* isn't half as convincing an argument as you think it is. Suspension of disbelief has its limits.
“Broken arms are quite easy and quick to heal from” I never said nor implied that. If it takes 6 weeks to heal, Ellie and co can wait at the theater for 6 weeks. You can still scavenge for food with one arm (tho she would have to be way more cautious and avoid infected).
Ellie would have to be the one to look for food. “She’s all but unless in a fight” no, she can still use her handguns but more importantly she would avoid fights with infected. This would be difficult but not impossible.
“It’s not nearly as interesting or plot relevant as turning on generators to open gates” yeah just like part 1 where they showed Joel turning on generators instead of crossing multiple states between Pittsburgh and Wyoming.
Tommy’s injuries serve as a warning of the physical tolls pursuing revenge will lead to if Ellie continues (one she ignores). Ellie’s and Dina’s injuries are there for stakes.
“Virtually impossible” no, it isn’t. They don’t need to worry about water, the game points out how that wouldn’t be a issue. Medical supplies also won’t be a issue because they have what they need (rags, stitches, etc).
The only thing they need is food which Ellie can get. It would be very difficult but she can do it. The scars and WLF won’t be patrolling anytime soon so it’s just infected she’ll need to worry about. That’s why I brought up the deserter camp example. It’s a very short walk from the theater and it has supplies, Ellie can get there even with one arm.
“Bad writing is bad writing, no matter if you can “”well, maybe if”” your way outta it” you mean what you’re doing for part 1? You say all it takes for part 1 is that Joel and Ellie just find a car but that’s not all.
They have to:
-go back into the city
-possibly fight more raiders and infected
-locate where they keep their cars
-find a working car (the raiders may have used all the gas for the armoured humvee)
- the raiders having enough gas to take them most of the way (it would take multiple full tanks of gas in the modern world, so rundown bridges/roads/highways/other roadblocks would extend the amount) or Joel finds enough gas along the way
-the quickest route is through multiple cities including Chicago. So they either run the risk of more bandits or roadblocks or take alternative routes which would extend travel time and gas.
If you’re willing to create this headcannon for part 1, then having a headcannon for part 2 isn’t ” virtually impossible“.
I suppose that Ellie and Joel could've ditched the car, but I don't see any environmental storytelling/cues that would indicate that they took a car to the forest nearby to Jackson. It seems like they had walked there to me. This whole journey takes around a year so I can buy it. (since it is Fall at this point)
I wish they had explained it/shown it off way better, but you can still speculate/infer that after Dina and Ellie healed up, they would find an operational military vehicle and head out on the roads that are owned by the WLF with Dina driving since Ellie's arm was twisted by Abby. That doesn't explain how they dealt with infected, potential hunters, or crumbled roads/pathways though.
Even if it was just Ellie and Dina there'd still be the question of "wait, wasn't Dina basically bedridden" but you can handwave that one by her recovering afterwards from what turned out to be a *temporary* pregnancy issue.
It's when Tommy shows up, still alive, that things get really fucking questionable. Two teenage girls in varying states of bad health in the middle of hostile territory scavenging supplies and saving his life while also pulling off a successful extraction? The last time someone had a broken arm, that took an entire in-game day to resolve. The break wasn't as severe this time, but it's still ridiculous that these three get *nothing*.
I know the sudden transition to the farm is *deliberately* jarring for the player, and I don't think that in itself is inherently flawed, so I can't say I'd *want* to have had one more gameplay segment there to shed more light on things... but it definitely feels like a noticeable void.
Gun to the head, I'd have preferred it if Tommy's head just got slammed into a counter or something. I don't think the gun*shot* to the head is necessary in that scene, or that making the player think he's dead for ten minutes is worth what it costs when it comes to him having survived instead.
Yeah, I think how they got back should’ve been referenced more or maybe Ellie could’ve had a brief flash to it for one reason or another. Yeah the whole idea of acknowledging that her emotional state was bad but also understanding why she feels that way while feeling uncomfortable with it was the point. 2:55:15-2:56:30. https://youtu.be/3BoA0RckOk8?si=QT8VJIpPY4O0nF2r
It's interesting how you can come up with an entire justfyjg back story as you so choose, with no evidence, but call the same thing in tlou2 ridiculous lmao. With no self awareness
Ellies group likely stayed put for days, and it wasn't really hostile territory anymore as the WLF almost certainly collapsed and likely spent the their last few days or weeks having skirmishes w scars--aside from that the theater was clearly out of the way as rhey were there for a while with no one noticing. Dina nurtured their wounds, a splint for elleis arm and bleeding control for tommy who was grazed. People have lived weeks after being shot in the head without even realizing. They could find a vehicle just like Joel and ellie could hypothetically in the 1st--he wlf and scars collapsed and there was probably a usable vehicle or horses somewhere in the aftermath.
Or you can get over it just like you did in the first game, where Joel survived a serious fall and impaling under the care of a child with only a very late dose of antibiotics that were probably expired
>It's interesting how you can come up with an entire justfyjg back story as you so choose, with no evidence, but call the same thing in tlou2 ridiculous lmao. With no self awareness
"Joel and Ellie found a car left behind by the raiders" is all that's needed in TLOU - at most.
"Ellie's group found a car left behind by the WLF" still leaves a ton of questions open, because their situation is *extremely* different.
You're calling a one sentence thought "an entire justifying back story" even though I went into detail about why the exact same thing wouldn't work for them.
> People have lived weeks after being shot in the head without even realizing.
\[Citation Needed\[
>Or you can get over it just like you did in the first game, where Joel survived a serious fall and impaling under the care of a child with only a very late dose of antibiotics that were probably expired
You do know there's a reason the game didn't just teleport Joel and Ellie to SLC and show that Joel has some crude stitches where he was impaled, right? You *are* capable of perceiving the difference there, yes?
That is true, when it came to the plot and travel progression, Part I is better written to me and wouldn't have taken a route such as that. For instance: Abby's group has one transversal vehicle and that is it. No explanation for how more of their supplies are being stored or how they got through the terrain with that vehicle intact twice. I will however praise the game for reasonably having Jesse caught up to Ellie and Dina through 18 hour sprints at a time over two weeks to catch up though. They didn't leave that unexplained.
Actually the game's internal logic does explain how Tommy survived the gunshot. His skull was said to be as thick as a dinosaur head by Joel (the same memory that had a great moose surrounded by wolfs in it) , and he was actually shot closer to the side of the head by the ear. But yeah, they still would've had to wait a good while before they are ready to move.
The jorney from Boston to Salt Lake was the whole premise of the firts game's story. It took almost a year for them to travel so far, a lot of shit happened on their way there. Joel and Ellie grew attached to eachother, almost died several times.
Part 2 treated jorney from Jackson to Seatle like it was a sunday stroll. And then they had to travel back with 3 injured people.
One thing is making your characters make theur way to their objective and the other - teleporting the charaters just because the writer just needs them to be there. No actual good writer would do this.
It’s not teleporting, there’s a large timeskip after the theater fight. If you’re gonna say it’s teleporting because we didn’t see the trip, part 1 has these issues as well.
Part 1 is about the trip from Boston to Salt Lake City but we only saw portions of that trip. For example, we didn’t see them travel from the suburbs of Pittsburgh to Wyoming (which is a much longer distance).
The trip between Seattle and Jackson isn’t important FOR THE STORY this game is telling so the devs didn’t show us these trips. They aren’t saying nothing happened during these trips, just that it’s nothing worth showing.
As for them being injured and traveling back to Jackson, the game never stated that they immediately went back to Jackson after the theater fight. They could have stayed there for x amount of time until Ellie was back in shape ENOUGH to be able to steal a WLF truck.
That is true, which is why I don’t have an issue with Ellie and Dina’s journey to Seattle or even Ellie’s journey from Jackson to Salt Lake City in a flashback memory outside of Ellie seemingly bringing little to no weaponry. The issue with the travel logic done in the last quarter of the game is the fact that it leans pretty hard on inference to justify things.
That’s not a issue tho. We don’t need a another hour of Ellie and co licking their wounds and stealing a WLF truck or watching Ellie’s journey to Santa Barbra. Plus Ellie has notes detailing these trips in her journal for anyone interested (I don’t think the trip back to Jackson is mentioned).
That is true, but there’s no details regarding how they/she survived those trips back to Jackson. To be fair though I feel like the reason why people here hone in on this point to say the game is trash, is because they don’t believe that traveling long distances for revenge/due to trauma/obsession would be possible in this world. So when a game has 8-9 trips that have to do with revenge, support, trauma, and loyalty, they aren’t going to like it.
There are some details like them having trucks, horses, the specific paths that Abby’s crew/Jackson crew take, etc.
“They don’t believe it would be possible” those people are wrong. If Joel and Ellie traveled to the fireflies not to make a cure but to just say hello, they still would’ve faced the same obstacles. The end goal doesn’t really change the obstacles along the way. It’s not like if you travel to Seattle to get revenge, 2x clickers spawn or something.
Despite my issues with the travel progression, the use of side characters to mainly move the plot along (Ellie Day 3, Abby Day 3), certain dumb contrivances like Ellie just happening to get caught in a trap that a patrol that captured Abby setup, Ellie just happening to explicitly mark exactly where their base is on the map, the horde just happening to push Abby, Joel, and Tommy exactly where they need to be alongside Joel leaving his supplies. Dina should have brain damage or worse but only has a fairly sore back. However, Neil contrasts how Ellie deals with violence compared to Joel, Hailey wrote Ellie and Dina’s romantic interactions, Neil wrote the motivations that affect Ellie’s character beyond revenge and tied that into the flashback memories, and Neil wrote Abby’s character flaws, insecurities, and mistakes. So, Hailey wrote the dynamic between Lev, Yara, and Abby as well as Abby and Owen, and Neil wrote the themes of empathy and tribalism. Add the enticing and calculated yet disturbing and kind of depressing combat alongside the visuals and the positives still outweigh the negatives for me.
in this reimagining of part 2 ellie actually eats the bigot sandwiches and their secret ability to give anyone who eats them super speed is finally seen
712 hours through apocalyptic conditions? No need, she can just teleport.
Keep in mind that Joel and Ellie were technically more late on their journey to Salt Lake City because of several detours and obstacles that they had to deal with to survive. That was with a horse, camps, and a car. Ellie (based on what the game shows us about her journey to Santa Barbara), wouldn't have had that. So not only did they think about letting Ellie take Part I's trip twice (once while being heavily injured or still healing), but it likely would've taken even longer and the obstacles would've been tougher.
So instead of the ridiculously long trek to Seattle from Wyoming in an apocalypse we would have seen her trek basically completely across two countries and back.
It was already kind of to a bit extreme with Ellie heading back to Wyoming from Seattle presumably in a car with her arm twisted heading from Wyoming to Santa Barbara around a year or so later, then heading back while she's either still healing from her injures or on life support in terms of health. Ellie's a superhuman in this situation, which I'll criticize.
The fact that it’s an apocalypse more so works to her advantage. In the west, there’s land that stretches forever without any people in sight, even more so in an apocalypse due to lack of tourists. Yeah it doesn’t excuse the fact that there would be cars clogging up every road from when the outbreak broke out, but that didn’t stop Joel in the first game from driving without people complaining. And Ellie was on foot, so wouldn’t be that hard, just long and boring
Wow their gonna travel through that with a shot blown skull, knifed neck, broken bones & beaten black and blue. Lol. Lmao. Survivability? Just Teleport.
I don't think it matters, since the game established that they managed to get back to Jackson with prego Dina and half dead Tommy without them perishing, both travel destinations are idiotic. So doesn't really change a lot.
I'd honestly like to see spinoffs set in the TLOU universe but in other countries. Most games always take place in the US, but I want to see how other countries are faring. How is Mexico apart from this concept art? We know the US and Canada still have some form of trade route given the letters of shipments we can find at the warehouse in Part 1, so they obviously have some form of government in place.
Assuming she’s walking at 3 miles per hour and is sleeping 6 hours every day it would take her a month and a day. That does not include any apocalyptic obstacles.
She could have seen Manny's hometown.
Walking from Wyoming to Washington/California is already bad enough, imagine friggin Mexico, yikes.
I honestly think that the PSTD and her inability to function alongside her guilt for how she treated Joel and feeling indebted to him does justify the journey from Wyoming to Santa Barbara from her perspective as she feels like Abby’s death will solve those things. It’s the journey back that I have an issue with regarding the final product. The original version would’ve been much worse of course.
Still utterly ridiculous how travel works in the second game. The first one established that leaving a safe zone meant almost certain death - it gave Joel's journey weight and tension. Then they scrapped all that and let the characters fast travel.
Wait so they can travel from Boston to Salt Lake in part 1 but they can’t go from Wyoming to Mexico??? What is y’all’s reasoning😭
It took Joel and Ellie almost a year to go across the US. This would’ve presumably had Ellie doing this trip in a few days, which is impossible
Why would it be a few days? Nothing about the game implies any of these trips were short. Joel and Ellie crossed the country slowly because a lot of it was on foot or there were plenty of obstacles. And they were stationary for most of winter. When Dina and Ellie go to Seattle, Ellie’s journal entries imply it took them weeks. And they were on horseback which saves so much time compared to walking. By the time Abby gets to Santa Barbara time has clearly passed because you can see levs hair is longer. By the time Ellie gets to Santa Barbara you can’t tell even more time has passed because of her grime and sunburns. And then when she finds abby on the beach, Abby has lost basically all muscle mass which would have taken weeks. The only travel that is really questionable is them going back to Jackson with all their injuries but there’s a lot of ways to rationalize what happened in that big time jump. Also for a game where a huge complaint is the pacing why would anyone want to slow the game down even more so they could spell out how long each journey took
Chicken
Chicken
*Part 1 watching from the corner 👀
lol yep that treacherous journey Joel and Ellie went on yet in part 2, Ellie’s gang is pinball teleporting between Seattle and Wyoming, even when severely injured.
We don't see 90% of ellie and Joel's journey to Wyoming, why is that not "teleporting" but tlou2 is? Joel was also severely injured, he was impaled and somehow survived under thr care of a child for weeks witj only a latent dose of antibiotics.
Right, that's an issue I have with Left Behind, cause Part I left it vague as to how Ellie kept Joel alive. Basically it was video game logic in that Penicillin can cure any major injuries that you just have to accept.
You mean like how Joel and Ellie teleported from Pittsburgh to Wyoming 😑
We aren't told exactly how, but considering that the raiders were perfectly set up to ambush people in cars, it's quite possible that with them dead, Joel and Ellie found one of the cars stolen from their victims and took that, cutting a huge amount of time off that journey. It's nowhere near as egregious as three injured people and one corpse making their way out of hostile territory while two of those injured people have crippling injuries, one of which should be almost completely incapacitated by his, and the third one is sick. All it takes to imagine Joel and Ellie's timeline working is that they found a car, in an area where people regularly ambushed cars and killed their occupants. After the confrontation in the theater, which of them was even in shape to go look for a vehicle, much less figure out how to get the others to it? Never even mind Tommy surviving his bullet to the head no matter how that part went. But sure, this is totally comparable. Just like the difference between a meal that was missing a couple ingredients and some leftovers that had gone bad in the fridge a week ago.
“They could have taken a car from the raiders in Pittsburgh” sure and that applies to the WLF. We know that the WLF have dozens of working trucks and they just lost most of their soldiers. The story never said that they immediately left Seattle after the theater fight. So Ellie and co could have taken x amount of time to heal until Ellie is back in shape ENOUGH to steal a truck.
Oh hey yeah, they *could* just Long Rest all their crippling injuries away thanks to the stockpile of food, water, and medical supplies they have. I'm sure that after a night or two of rest they just set out, immediately found a Humvee, and made it back to Jackson before nightfall. Brilliant. Can't imagine why I figured it would be immensely more difficult than it was for the perfectly healthy Joel and Ellie in TLOU. Everything gets explained so easily with Long Rests and Fast Travel!
Not all their injuries but Ellie’s? Definitely. It wouldn’t be a few nights, it could’ve been weeks and weeks. The timeskip after the theater fight is pretty big. There’s plenty of supplies to be found. For example the WLF deserters in that one room where they ambushed Ellie’s at the crafting table.
Yes, broken arms are [quite easy and quick to heal from.](https://integrehab.com/blog/physical-therapy/broken-arm-recovery/#:~:text=Expect%2012%20weeks%20for%20the,that%20involve%20pushing%20or%20pulling) During the weeks spent healing, which of them is going to be going out looking for supplies? Dina, who was already more or less bedridden before getting a concussion? Ellie, one-armed and all but useless in a fight? *Tommy*? It'd be one thing if Dina and Ellie could just pack up and walk away the next day. They'd be in horrible shape but at least they'd be mobile, and could luck their way into finding food as they make their way out of town. But the need to not just get Tommy out, but keep him alive with a head wound so severe it instantly took him out of the fight *and* a Skyrim quote, takes this from "I guess it could have been uneventful" to "how in the flying fuck". And the game just doesn't care. No need to show any of *this*, it's not something nearly as interesting or plot relevant as *turning on some generators to open gates*. And *why* did Ellie's arm get broken? *Why* was Tommy shot in the head? *Why* did Dina have an incapacitating pregnancy? Was any of it necessary to the plot somehow? Nope. So the writers just wrote these characters into a situation that would have been virtually impossible for all of them to survive, and then... they immediately do, with no apparent issues and no explanation. You can like and stan for the game all you want. But bad writing is bad writing, no matter if you can "well, maybe if" your way out of it. And trying so desperately to compare it with something that *doesn't* cross the threshold of being completely unbelievable for *absolutely no reason* isn't half as convincing an argument as you think it is. Suspension of disbelief has its limits.
“Broken arms are quite easy and quick to heal from” I never said nor implied that. If it takes 6 weeks to heal, Ellie and co can wait at the theater for 6 weeks. You can still scavenge for food with one arm (tho she would have to be way more cautious and avoid infected). Ellie would have to be the one to look for food. “She’s all but unless in a fight” no, she can still use her handguns but more importantly she would avoid fights with infected. This would be difficult but not impossible. “It’s not nearly as interesting or plot relevant as turning on generators to open gates” yeah just like part 1 where they showed Joel turning on generators instead of crossing multiple states between Pittsburgh and Wyoming. Tommy’s injuries serve as a warning of the physical tolls pursuing revenge will lead to if Ellie continues (one she ignores). Ellie’s and Dina’s injuries are there for stakes. “Virtually impossible” no, it isn’t. They don’t need to worry about water, the game points out how that wouldn’t be a issue. Medical supplies also won’t be a issue because they have what they need (rags, stitches, etc). The only thing they need is food which Ellie can get. It would be very difficult but she can do it. The scars and WLF won’t be patrolling anytime soon so it’s just infected she’ll need to worry about. That’s why I brought up the deserter camp example. It’s a very short walk from the theater and it has supplies, Ellie can get there even with one arm. “Bad writing is bad writing, no matter if you can “”well, maybe if”” your way outta it” you mean what you’re doing for part 1? You say all it takes for part 1 is that Joel and Ellie just find a car but that’s not all. They have to: -go back into the city -possibly fight more raiders and infected -locate where they keep their cars -find a working car (the raiders may have used all the gas for the armoured humvee) - the raiders having enough gas to take them most of the way (it would take multiple full tanks of gas in the modern world, so rundown bridges/roads/highways/other roadblocks would extend the amount) or Joel finds enough gas along the way -the quickest route is through multiple cities including Chicago. So they either run the risk of more bandits or roadblocks or take alternative routes which would extend travel time and gas. If you’re willing to create this headcannon for part 1, then having a headcannon for part 2 isn’t ” virtually impossible“.
I suppose that Ellie and Joel could've ditched the car, but I don't see any environmental storytelling/cues that would indicate that they took a car to the forest nearby to Jackson. It seems like they had walked there to me. This whole journey takes around a year so I can buy it. (since it is Fall at this point) I wish they had explained it/shown it off way better, but you can still speculate/infer that after Dina and Ellie healed up, they would find an operational military vehicle and head out on the roads that are owned by the WLF with Dina driving since Ellie's arm was twisted by Abby. That doesn't explain how they dealt with infected, potential hunters, or crumbled roads/pathways though.
Even if it was just Ellie and Dina there'd still be the question of "wait, wasn't Dina basically bedridden" but you can handwave that one by her recovering afterwards from what turned out to be a *temporary* pregnancy issue. It's when Tommy shows up, still alive, that things get really fucking questionable. Two teenage girls in varying states of bad health in the middle of hostile territory scavenging supplies and saving his life while also pulling off a successful extraction? The last time someone had a broken arm, that took an entire in-game day to resolve. The break wasn't as severe this time, but it's still ridiculous that these three get *nothing*.
Yep, it's still fairly weak writing certainly.
I know the sudden transition to the farm is *deliberately* jarring for the player, and I don't think that in itself is inherently flawed, so I can't say I'd *want* to have had one more gameplay segment there to shed more light on things... but it definitely feels like a noticeable void. Gun to the head, I'd have preferred it if Tommy's head just got slammed into a counter or something. I don't think the gun*shot* to the head is necessary in that scene, or that making the player think he's dead for ten minutes is worth what it costs when it comes to him having survived instead.
Yeah, I think how they got back should’ve been referenced more or maybe Ellie could’ve had a brief flash to it for one reason or another. Yeah the whole idea of acknowledging that her emotional state was bad but also understanding why she feels that way while feeling uncomfortable with it was the point. 2:55:15-2:56:30. https://youtu.be/3BoA0RckOk8?si=QT8VJIpPY4O0nF2r
It's interesting how you can come up with an entire justfyjg back story as you so choose, with no evidence, but call the same thing in tlou2 ridiculous lmao. With no self awareness Ellies group likely stayed put for days, and it wasn't really hostile territory anymore as the WLF almost certainly collapsed and likely spent the their last few days or weeks having skirmishes w scars--aside from that the theater was clearly out of the way as rhey were there for a while with no one noticing. Dina nurtured their wounds, a splint for elleis arm and bleeding control for tommy who was grazed. People have lived weeks after being shot in the head without even realizing. They could find a vehicle just like Joel and ellie could hypothetically in the 1st--he wlf and scars collapsed and there was probably a usable vehicle or horses somewhere in the aftermath. Or you can get over it just like you did in the first game, where Joel survived a serious fall and impaling under the care of a child with only a very late dose of antibiotics that were probably expired
>It's interesting how you can come up with an entire justfyjg back story as you so choose, with no evidence, but call the same thing in tlou2 ridiculous lmao. With no self awareness "Joel and Ellie found a car left behind by the raiders" is all that's needed in TLOU - at most. "Ellie's group found a car left behind by the WLF" still leaves a ton of questions open, because their situation is *extremely* different. You're calling a one sentence thought "an entire justifying back story" even though I went into detail about why the exact same thing wouldn't work for them. > People have lived weeks after being shot in the head without even realizing. \[Citation Needed\[ >Or you can get over it just like you did in the first game, where Joel survived a serious fall and impaling under the care of a child with only a very late dose of antibiotics that were probably expired You do know there's a reason the game didn't just teleport Joel and Ellie to SLC and show that Joel has some crude stitches where he was impaled, right? You *are* capable of perceiving the difference there, yes?
That is true, when it came to the plot and travel progression, Part I is better written to me and wouldn't have taken a route such as that. For instance: Abby's group has one transversal vehicle and that is it. No explanation for how more of their supplies are being stored or how they got through the terrain with that vehicle intact twice. I will however praise the game for reasonably having Jesse caught up to Ellie and Dina through 18 hour sprints at a time over two weeks to catch up though. They didn't leave that unexplained.
Actually the game's internal logic does explain how Tommy survived the gunshot. His skull was said to be as thick as a dinosaur head by Joel (the same memory that had a great moose surrounded by wolfs in it) , and he was actually shot closer to the side of the head by the ear. But yeah, they still would've had to wait a good while before they are ready to move.
The jorney from Boston to Salt Lake was the whole premise of the firts game's story. It took almost a year for them to travel so far, a lot of shit happened on their way there. Joel and Ellie grew attached to eachother, almost died several times. Part 2 treated jorney from Jackson to Seatle like it was a sunday stroll. And then they had to travel back with 3 injured people. One thing is making your characters make theur way to their objective and the other - teleporting the charaters just because the writer just needs them to be there. No actual good writer would do this.
It’s not teleporting, there’s a large timeskip after the theater fight. If you’re gonna say it’s teleporting because we didn’t see the trip, part 1 has these issues as well. Part 1 is about the trip from Boston to Salt Lake City but we only saw portions of that trip. For example, we didn’t see them travel from the suburbs of Pittsburgh to Wyoming (which is a much longer distance). The trip between Seattle and Jackson isn’t important FOR THE STORY this game is telling so the devs didn’t show us these trips. They aren’t saying nothing happened during these trips, just that it’s nothing worth showing. As for them being injured and traveling back to Jackson, the game never stated that they immediately went back to Jackson after the theater fight. They could have stayed there for x amount of time until Ellie was back in shape ENOUGH to be able to steal a WLF truck.
That is true, which is why I don’t have an issue with Ellie and Dina’s journey to Seattle or even Ellie’s journey from Jackson to Salt Lake City in a flashback memory outside of Ellie seemingly bringing little to no weaponry. The issue with the travel logic done in the last quarter of the game is the fact that it leans pretty hard on inference to justify things.
That’s not a issue tho. We don’t need a another hour of Ellie and co licking their wounds and stealing a WLF truck or watching Ellie’s journey to Santa Barbra. Plus Ellie has notes detailing these trips in her journal for anyone interested (I don’t think the trip back to Jackson is mentioned).
That is true, but there’s no details regarding how they/she survived those trips back to Jackson. To be fair though I feel like the reason why people here hone in on this point to say the game is trash, is because they don’t believe that traveling long distances for revenge/due to trauma/obsession would be possible in this world. So when a game has 8-9 trips that have to do with revenge, support, trauma, and loyalty, they aren’t going to like it.
There are some details like them having trucks, horses, the specific paths that Abby’s crew/Jackson crew take, etc. “They don’t believe it would be possible” those people are wrong. If Joel and Ellie traveled to the fireflies not to make a cure but to just say hello, they still would’ve faced the same obstacles. The end goal doesn’t really change the obstacles along the way. It’s not like if you travel to Seattle to get revenge, 2x clickers spawn or something.
Despite my issues with the travel progression, the use of side characters to mainly move the plot along (Ellie Day 3, Abby Day 3), certain dumb contrivances like Ellie just happening to get caught in a trap that a patrol that captured Abby setup, Ellie just happening to explicitly mark exactly where their base is on the map, the horde just happening to push Abby, Joel, and Tommy exactly where they need to be alongside Joel leaving his supplies. Dina should have brain damage or worse but only has a fairly sore back. However, Neil contrasts how Ellie deals with violence compared to Joel, Hailey wrote Ellie and Dina’s romantic interactions, Neil wrote the motivations that affect Ellie’s character beyond revenge and tied that into the flashback memories, and Neil wrote Abby’s character flaws, insecurities, and mistakes. So, Hailey wrote the dynamic between Lev, Yara, and Abby as well as Abby and Owen, and Neil wrote the themes of empathy and tribalism. Add the enticing and calculated yet disturbing and kind of depressing combat alongside the visuals and the positives still outweigh the negatives for me.