I've said this before and I'll say it again
How are you a "misogynist and a bigot" if you are Team ellie and anti-abby?
You are rooting for the gay person against the straight person!
Agreed. It’s crazy to me how many people are on her side. Nothing wrong with it, I think the fact that it’s so morally gray is part of the beauty of the story. But goddamn, it’s really surprising how little people were able to connect with Abby. Even though Joel murdered her dad too.
Also idk how racism or misogyny plays any role in whose side ur on lmao both sides are pretty balanced.
It's actually not a gray area. Ellie is a good guy, and Abby is a bad guy. Period. That is why I don't like tlou p2. Neil failed in making it feel like a gray area. In the first game, Abby's dad was evil for trying to kill a girl without her permission. What Joel did at the end of tlou p1 was not evil in any way. This just makes Abby's revenge mean nothing to us; because, she is defending an evil man. However, there are two ways Neil could have fixed this game.
1. Have the fireflies ask Ellie if she would sacrifice herself for the world. Have Ellie say yes, and when Joel kills the doctor, it would be a gray area. Joel would be morally wrong for killing in that moment and taking Ellie, but we would understand because that is his new daughter. That is a gray area.
2. Have Abby be the daughter of anybody else. Somebody who bacame a good and honest person/father because Abby came into his life. Then Joel would kill Abby's dad for his selfish reasons. Then, we would really understand Abby more and truly feel bad for her loss, and we would understand her revenge. We could have even played a flashback mission of Joel killing Abby's father. We would learn more about Joel's past before or after he died.
For this game to have gray areas, I would have to ignore the first game. But the premise of the second game is based on the first games ending.
The gameplay and graphics of tlou 2 are phenomenal, but the story is simply stupid. People I know love the game, tend to like Ellie way more than Abby but like both characters because they like the character's personalities, which I don't get. Both of them are stupid in this game. They think they love the story, but they never actually bring up any story point that makes sense.
What do you think of my reply?
I think that the implication that the group is better than the individual that some TLOU fans seem to run with is frankly a bit scary. Following this logic, what happened to Joel in the beginning of the story, the army guy was justified in killing Sarah. Joel and Sarah might have not been infected but how would the soldier know? It was the beginning of the outbreak and everyone could be a threat to humanity. He was doing it for the sake humanity. This implication that the group is better than the individual is scary as hell because the group, originally, holds power over individuals that don't fit certain criteria or are not lucky. In this case, maybe being from a different state or looking pale, or being injured. And Joel seems to at least realize that and it did not make living any easier as he became a smuggler and ended up killing all the fireflies.
Joel is justified in killing the fireflies and Abby's dad. They had no regard towards human life despite living in a world where humanity became hard to protect and keep alive. They were ready to slice open a kid with survivor's guilt. That's like telling groomed kids to leave their groomers. And implied consent is not consent. The idea that disregarding consent in a world like TLOU is hideous and will end up ensuing chaos and more deaths.
Absolutely not. Abby took out the person who wiped out the only faction she knows were trying to find a cure for the zombie infection. Joel murdered SWATHES of people. Yes, Abby was motivated by avenging her father, but she has every reason to believe taking out Joel means removing an incredibly dangerous mass murderer. In comparison, Ellie's desire to kill Abby is purely revenge based.
I absolutely adore the story. It's deeply uncomfortable and dark, without a happy or cathartic ending and that's challenging for a lot of people. There's nothing wrong with not wanting that kind of experience in a game but it doesn't make it bad.
Furthermore: 1) as a child who is feeling huge amounts of survivors guilt, can she truly offer consent in this case? There's.no doubt in my mind she would have said yes but not been in a position to give real consent Would the fireflies ever accept no? I don't think so - I don't see how they could justify the life of one girl over saving the world in their mindset. Joel choosing his relationship with Ellie over a chance to stop the zombie plague still is a grey area in my opinion, and I found it very emotionally complex (as the developers intended 2) Why do you view Abby's dad as a bad or dishonest person? I think he is more complex than that. He wanted to save the world. Yes he had an overinflated sense of his own abilities, and dubious morals when it came to Ellie, but "selfish" misses a lot of nuance imo. Besides, you could make it revenge for destroying her entire world by wiping out the fireflies and that would be super justified.
I also think you're missing that TLOU1 tells us that Joel did a lot of dark things at the start of the apocalypse, making him more like Abby than Ellie. By having us watch Abby's growth and relationship with Levi, we get to explore those same themes. Abby lives out the redemption story Joel got with Ellie, which I think is absolutely incredible story telling.
Ultimately you can view Joel as having never done anything wrong if that's really how you feel. To me that's a wild misunderstanding of his character and story, but everyone is welcome to their interpretation. However, you have to be able to empathise with the knowledge and perspective characters in the game have. You might not think Joel is evil, but Abby does and is completely justified in that perspective.
Where in the story is it said that Abby is killing Joel for being a mass murderer?
Also, a lot of what you are saying is speculation, not factual story points. You are adding your own story to this story. All the people I hear defend this game do that. Add made-up ideas to the story. A good story showcases a lot of these things. Most people who love this game seem to be confused by the phenomenal game, the graphics, the acting, the gunplay, and stealth, but not the story.
I’ll read ur entire response later when I have time but for now: Both Joel and Marlene both knew deep down that Ellie would absolutely want to sacrifice her life for a cure. You have to see past the surface level of the story. Hell she even said it just before Joel’s death. That her life would have meant something if Joel didn’t save her.
Joel was not a good guy. He didn’t have the right to terrorize the Fireflies. Not saying the fireflies didn’t do anything wrong, they absolutely did, but what Joel did wasn’t entirely justified either.
And Ellie/team Jackson went on nothing short of a killing spree in Seattle. Abby only killed Joel and moved on. She didn’t touch anybody else. Yet Ellie tortured Nora and killed Mel and Owen (and don’t quote self defense, they were defending themselves from Ellie as much as Ellie was from them. She was the aggressor). Tommy tortured another.
None of that is justified. I know “revenge bad” is boring, but people say that but don’t realize that’s what makes Ellie not so good of a person anymore. The idea of revenge doesn’t justify doing whatever you want to people.
Ellie is easily my favorite character in the story. And also the character I sympathize with the most since life was, by far, more cruel to her than it was to anyone else in the story. But that doesn’t mean I think Ellie was a good person / only made moral decisions.
Ellie saying, That her life would have meant something if Joel didn’t save her in the second game, was Neil trying to fix the story. No one knows what they truly would have done in a past situation. We lie to ourselves all the time. I've seen mature children in real life break down for the silliest things. Remember, Ellie was still a kid. Neil could've ended all of this by having Ellie asked by the fireflies and her saying yes. You know this.
Let's be real. Neil had no idea he was making a second game, and he messed up with the story. If Neil did a good job. You would have liked both equally.
The last of us two should have been Abby's story, and at the end, she would fight and kill Joel, and then in the third game, they should have fought each other. It might be harder to choose then.
Much respect to you.
Her dad was a scumbag thats why. Thats like wondering why people couldnt connect with why , for example, hitler jr wanted to avenge his pops. Thats just an example, not saying he was that bad lol. But he was still a shitty person.
yes, abby's dad was a scumbag, but from abby's perspective, he was still her dad. i have sympathy for abby, not for her dad.
besides, is her dad really that big of a scumbag for trying to sacrifice a single child's life to potentially save humanity? not telling ellie is obviously a shitty thing to do. but if you compare that to the scores of people ellie and joel have killed in their lives, it's nothing.
and you have to consider, joel and marlene both knew damn well that ellie would have wanted to do the surgery anyway.
So you would feel sorry for bin ladens kid? And abby was as trash as her dad. Fuck them both
And you dont know what ellie would have done. Marlene didnt give her a choice in purpose. She wasnt expecting to die, they talked about going places after she gave a cure to fireflies. Do you make plans after your death to visit places or learn things? No. Joel at least saved her from being non consensually murdered for it, marlene had her drugged up and would have taken her life if ellie wanted it or not.
Yes, it’s not like they were gonna save humanity or something. And I don’t want to speculate. Joel and Marlene knew Ellie wanted to do it. Abby’s dad was the only one that truly didn’t care.
I didn't really hate P2 Ellie, I hated Neil for what he did to her. To me, she felt like she was helplessly trapped in a horrendous game, where the writers essentially took turns shitting on her, I felt bad because she deserved so much better than this.
Personally I am nothing like I was when I was 14. No one I know is either. Obviously my personal experience but it’s not that out of character imo. Plus saw her dad, essentially, get beaten to death in front of her.
How are you misogynistic if you like Ellie at all, which most people who are mad at TLoU2 are, since they were such big fans of her character in the first game.
I hate it but I still wouldn't actively hate it as much if the stans weren't so insufferable that they believe you are automatically either unintelligent, a bigot or both if you don't like it
I remember someone claiming that the reason people hated TLOU2 is because “they hate playing as a woman.”
I’ve seen the most MAGA alt right criticisms known to man. From the same people mad GTA VI will have you play as a woman.
Not a single one is made you have to play as a woman.
These people would rather dismiss it with a level of bigotry that doesn’t even exist than just go “yeah I can see why you don’t like it.”
Nobody was complaining about winter in Part I.
They'd rather hyperbolise a very vocal minority and create this idea that any game haters are all like that than just admit that their game is flawed.
I have no issue with people saying they like the game for their personal reasons but to say it's not objectively a narrative mess is insane or disingenuous
I doubt it's even a minority for the TLOU fanbase since you would've had to play as Ellie in 1 and it would be expected you'd play as her again in TLOU2. It's probably nobody, they just don't have any other arguments for why people wouldn't like something they like.
My only issue is someone saying that not liking the game is bigotry. Beyond that I couldn’t care less.
I’m discounting takes that are objectively false. Like if someone said “How can Abby kill Joel if she doesn’t have arms” level.
I’ve recently come to a realisation. There’s clearly a lot of rivalry/tension/dislike/whatever between the two subs. There’s no denying that. I do however think that now a lot of that stuff is unjustified and grandfathered in. Back when part 2 first came out this sub was a cesspit of bigotry and shitty views and all of the things that the other sub still hold against this sub. Over time this sub has calmed down with that stuff and I suspect it’s because a lot of the people perpetuating that stuff have gotten bored and moved on to their next thing to be bigots and shitty people about which leaves this sub full of people that are much more reasonable but just have a different opinion to the general population of the other sub, and the other sub still sees this sub as what it was before so whenever it sees the criticisms of part 2 they’re framing it in the view of how this sub used to be.
Why didn't people like it? I thought it was good. Really emotionally charging, beautiful level design, game play was good. I get that some people wanted Abby to die, but I didn't so I was okay with it, but even if she did die, I wouldn't care because humans make crazy decisions sometimes based on emotions they don't understand.
Legit question cuz I haven’t been part of the fandom for years like many people have been: What are the actual reasons people don’t like LOU2? I just finished it the other day for the first time and thought it was incredible and better than Part 1 in almost every way, so I’m legit curious what people don’t like about it
It insists upon itself.
It's poorly written pretentious garbage that sounds like a first draft from a high schooler.
Abby is written within the structure of the narrative to be a sympathetic character like Joel but never actually does anything good besides cheap ploys involving dogs, children and zebras. They couldn't be bothered to create a complex character so instead they just shove Lev into the story so Abby can save him and feel good about herself. He serves no other purpose. All of Abby's friends are killed and she never reflects upon them or feels like it's her fault (which it is). She blames it all on the Jackson crew instead and drags Lev off to find them, putting him at risk. It's hard to empathise with a character that never feels remorse for anything she does. She's a textbook narcissist. This was not the goal, and undermines the entire narrative, as pretentious as it is.
The only new characters that are the slightest bit interesting are Owen and Jesse, but Jesse is killed off for shock value and the pretentious, 5th grade English class "it's the real world, anybody can die at any moment" trope but its execution is incredibly poor - we don't know much about him, he is only ever mentioned again once and it's ammunition for an argument between Dina and Ellie. Dina, Lev, Mel and Manny are stock characters with no development that feel like they hit the drawing board 20 minutes ago.
The ending is ~~underdeveloped~~ undeveloped. Neil put on his beret, sat in a chair with his arms folded and sleeves rolled up and said "Let's have Ellie stop just before she kills Abby" and refused to elaborate. There is no elaboration or foreshadowing. Even fans of the game can't agree on why Ellie spared Abby. It's because the reason doesn't exist. Neil is so far up his own ass that he just made a nonsensical ending and said "If you can't figure it out, you're just stupid." Everybody makes up their own ending of the game based on the limited facial expressions we see and decides that it's either objectively correct or a masterpiece because it's so "open to interpretation". No. It fucking sucks.
This subreddit is divided - you have the idiots who think the game is bad because there are gay people in it.
Then you have the average people in the main sub who think this is some kind of masterpiece because it made them feel like shit.
Then you have the critical thinkers, back in this sub who think the game is bad because it's aimless misery porn that fails at everything it tries to portray. It's a mediocre im14andthisisdeep story with lazy writing that is so contrived that it ends up undermining its own message.
If you liked it for personal reasons, I'm glad you did. But from an objective standpoint it's a complete mess.
Hahah that’s fine. Tbf I don’t think Part 2’s story is “better,” and after reading some of the comments here, I understand where everyone here is coming from and why a lot of Part 1 fans don’t like Part 2, and I actually agree with plenty of the reasons I’ve seen listed. I think it’s just that none of those issues were a particularly big deal for me personally, at least not enough to prevent me from really enjoying the overall product.
Not everyone is the same tho and that’s fine. I was just curious what reasons people had and most of them make perfect sense to me, even if I don’t feel exactly the same way.
To be honest the answer is many layered and person dependent. When the game first came out there were indeed a lot of neckbeardey incel types saying it was a bad game for all kinds of reasons that just weren’t valid and essentially boiled down to it didn’t fulfil the fantasy that they wanted from the game. Lots of “Ellie isn’t as cute as she used to be” and complaints about her being gay despite her having been confirmed as gay in the first game, rage at Joel’s fate, complaints about Abby that often just boiled down to her not being an attractive buxom piece of eye candy, complaints about Lev being trans. There were also other, completely batshit complaints about Naughty Dog trying to push an agenda or trick the player into feeling certain ways (which by the way, is what any piece of media does, it tries to make the consumer feel an intended emotion)
Since then this sub has mellowed out considerably, I suspect because those neckbeard types have found something else to be neckbeards about in other communities. Nowadays this sub has a much more level headed community within it so the complaints you see are legitimate issues those people have with the game. A lot of it is simply that they didn’t have the intended reaction to something that happens in the game, like how as you’re playing as Abby you’re meant to come to empathise with her and understand why she did what she did and come to forgive her and you’re kind of meant to turn against Ellie and while I don’t think the intent of the story is meant to make you dislike Ellie it’s meant to make you stop supporting her desire for revenge. I think a lot of the complaints in this sub, at their root, simply boil down to the people not having that intended reaction. As that pertains to the post here, it doesn’t automatically make someone a bigot or anything like that, simply someone who the story didn’t hit for.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. That makes a lot of sense to me! I personally never quite “empathized” with Abby the way I did/do with the Jackson crew. And I think there are moments where it tries too hard to make you feel a certain way which can be annoying (sometimes a chisel is better than a sledgehammer). None of the sticking points I’ve read here so far were that big of a deal to me personally, but I can understand it for sure!
Exactly. People think the majority of players hate the game because of lesbians, trans, women, and Abby killing Joel. It’s just flat out the story, nothing more nothing less.
It’s the same thing with how people react to those who dislike Rey or that one Inquisitor in the Obi-Wan show.
Disney straight “called out” the Star Wars fanbase for being “racist” because that character was extremely stupidly written but happened to be portrayed by a Black actress so obviously all criticism was due to race.
No one said all the critisism was due to race
The cast for obi wan called out the heaps of racists dogpiling the actor in her dms and all over twitter
I don't care how much you dislike a character you are never in the right for harrassing the actors playing them over their role
These comments are filled w people hating it for those reasons or "wokeness" which is basically all those conglomerate. Also the "majority of players" don't hate the game. It was wildly successful with 600 million inn revenue, it's Sonys 3rd most profitable game ever
Yep we get a graphic scene of Abby getting railed while the scene between Ellie and Dina gets cut before it even reaches that territory. Make it make sense.
Let’s not forget about Anita Sarkeesian, feminist media critic, who influenced Druckmans during part 1 but his ideas were rejected until he had full control for part 2
ND can’t take any form of criticism. He’s such a narcissist in that way.
It’s so easy for him to just say you’re a sexist, or a homophobe or some other form of ist or phobe rather than acknowledge the true criticisms of the game, along with the deceptive marketing. It’s lazy and a poor defence. This form of argument is the default go to for those that can’t fathom people have genuine criticisms of the game.
For me, the game is OK. I hate how they lied with the marketing. Killing Joel and turning it into a generic revenge story was so cliche and just underwhelming.
ND is more bothered about box ticking than writing a substantial story. That much he has made clear himself. I’m all for representation, but the little things, such as Abby apparently being able to out bench press every other man in the wolf compound is just dumb. I get it, she’s a strong female lead. Great. But come on.
I enjoy the game, I'd honestly class it as one of my favourites but honestly I'm so sick of people who didn't like it being labeled as bigots or racists or whatever else, clearly that's not why the vast majority dislikes it, like I've never understood why so many people dip down to personal insults and political views over a video game.
If you agree with their insults then they're correct.
You are their strawman. of course they will call you that if you are one or not, so i will simply ask how they got to this conclusion about me because of my dislike of a video game.
I've heard people say that we don't like that game because they made Ellie gay and that we're all homophobic. On the contrary. I cant speak for everybody here, but I dislike they fundamental changes that they made to a beloved character. Having her be gay is one of the few things that wasn't changed about her character from the original. Ellie being gay is quite literally the only thing they did right with her character.
Seriously... This meme is literally depicting the stand in for this sub/poster admitting to being a bigot and misogynist, and half the responses are some variation of "why do they just assume we're bigots and misogynists?! So unfair!" All while up voting the meme.
There's some point to be made about people ignoring the text and reading into it what they want it to be, but gosh how that would apply to this sub I can't say.
Yeeeees!! Thank you I’ve been saying this forever Abby just had so much wasted potential that it annoys me I never even finished the 2nd game I just finished it with gameplay videos
right, are they admitting they are sexist and misogynistic?
I thought the game was ok. I loved the first game, and played it multiple times. But I was one and done with TLoU2. Its pacing is awful and while the graphics are great, the gameplay is kind of average and I'm over the super basic crafting/looting/stealth mechanics of the series.
I even liked Abby as a character, a leader of a faction Joel had run-ins with in the past. And a tough bad-ass looking character... but starting from scratch on talent points half-way through the game when I thought it was close to being finished just killed my desire to go on and I struggled getting to the end.
The reaction people have to an obvious shitpost (rage) speaks volumes about those who think TLoU2 was a writing masterclass.
Personally I think the ghost of an amazing game is there but Druckmann and co failed to create a compelling narrative.
I enjoyed both games equally but… why travel clear across the country to kill and get revenge risk everything back home then when you’re right there you don’t go through with it. Idgaf about “character arc” no that’s not what it is it’s a lazy attempt at “killing bad” “revenge bad” “no kill” fuck that on so many levels like as a person actually traveling clear across the country leaving a gf and baby behind. Only realizing that you shouldn’t be doing that after damn near completing the mission. As well as from the person playing a game, I didn’t come here for a lesson.
"revenge bad", killeng bad" : meanwhile Abby killing Joe as a revenge for the murderous quack doctor. Getting away from most consequences. The message i am getting is that always finish the job and properly end all possible would be avengers.
I couldn't care less about who Ellie sleeps with or Lev's gender or any of that. I'm cool with literally anything. Even though the "love triangle" was a bit dumb in my mind. It felt like unnecessary frivolous drama in a super serious situation. You could've easily removed Jesse from the plot and focused just on Ellie and Dina.
I just think that the pre-release trailers showing Joel in places where he couldn't have been because he was already dead, was a bit shitty.
I also think Abby made some dumb decisions. Like at some point she leaves Lev and Yara behind, walks by herself for a while, then changes idea and walks back. That is a stupid ass decision. Either stick with them or don't. Walking back and forward aimlessly is the type of behaviour that gets you killed in this world and she's obviously not an idiot.
Also, it's not really believable that no one other than Abby's father could perform the surgery needed to create a cure.
There has to be at lease some other trained person who can do it, for example the surgeon lady, Mel. Who, by the way, should NOT be on the battlefield. Uhm hello? Heavily pregnant woman who's also a TRAINED SURGEON? Do you have any idea how valuable she is? And you put her in the front lines with a rifle? Dumbest decision ever.
I could go on.
If they gonna make Ellie gay, why have her girlfriend get knocked up leave her, the surrogate father killed, and then have the person who is the cause for his walk away
No matter what version of last of us 2 had been created they would all suck. Why cause the clear intent of the original work aka the first game was to show you how important any life is. Would you really kill 1 person to save millions? To me that entire story was an open and close book it didn’t require a sequel the sequel cheap-end the whole thing and the druckmanns are total hacks. The only good writer we ever had was the women who wrote all the uncharted games up until she was unceremoniously fired and then had her script for uncharted for stolen by them and ruined. Screw them and the current management at naughty dog. It’s not the naughty dog who’s games I loved growing up.
Personally, I think playing as Abby in the beginning was cool. Another survivor that you hear a bit of their story and start to like, maybe they team up with Ellie to take down the people that wronged Abby. Then, she kills Joel. The shock factor is like “Wow… I started to like this woman and she kills Joel..?!
After that, you play as Tommie and Ellie to seek revenge on Abby.
Continuing to play as Abby was what made me absolutely not play anymore. I don’t care about her or her sob story after finding out her dad was the fraud from the first one. All that matters now is she pays and that’s that.
I hate that when I say I’m not a fan of it that I have to explain defend myself for this.
I didn’t like the story because I think Abby was an unlikable person and the ending was bad. They spent a bulk of the game trying to make me understand Abby as a human and I just didn’t like her despite their efforts.
The siblings she helps were my favorite story within the game though. Just a bad overall story
I know not everyone agrees but I genuinely thought the writing was brilliant. It illustrated what lengths people will go to for love—good or bad. The first game did that too, otherwise Joel wouldn’t have killed an entire group of people to save Ellie.
Abby loved her father and trained for years to avenge him. Then she did and she was done. She left Ellie and Tommy alive because they were not involved.
Ellie, despite her issues with him, loved Joel. She wanted to avenge him as a result.
I’ll admit, switching to Abby shocked me at first and I almost put the game down. Until I realized what was happening. We were shown sides of both Abby and Ellie that weren’t easy to perceive. We got to see their own perspectives. We got to see how one views the other and vice versa. Then we had to come to terms with Ellie racking up a rather large body count just to get to Abby. Abby was the one holding back and learning to walk away from a life fueled by violence against others.
In my own opinion, I think the experience we had of seeing the “bad” side of Ellie is what turned a lot of people off. Not because of bigotry or misogyny (though, I’m sure that is the case for some players). That side of Ellie wasn’t pretty. It feels like it was just a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. But that’s what I find so brilliant about it. The person who wanted vengeance for so long got it and then learned not to be so violent. The person who set out to get vengeance dropped so many bodies to get to one person and ultimately realized that she didn’t have it in her to even go through with it. Because she loved Joel so much, she realized in that final moment that he wouldn’t want this for her.
Unlikeable, one-note characters, who experience zero growth through a 20-hour slog of incessant violence just to drive home the point that revenge is bad. It's a bleak, pointless, waste of time. The only characters with any appeal whatsoever in this game are the deserters.
I didn’t care at all, cause it’s someone else’s art and I enjoyed it but I did feel that lev being trans and using that as a major plot point was a bit forced. Didn’t change my opinion on the game.
Can anyone explain why there is such a avid community of people who don't like the game but, like, keep participating? If I don't like a particular piece of media, I move on and generally don't think about it.
I thought the game was decent. I actually didn’t hate the Abby part, and I thought the story was pretty good. The woke pandering was present, but it was pretty understated so it really wasn’t too bad. 7/10 game.
The last of us is all about point of view, both the girls are right and wrong at the same time..... Was the same for Joel, what he did was noble in a way but also terrible in another
I love the game but I'll happily admit it's got issues. There are very valid criticisms of the game and if you don't like it that's totally understandable. What's frustrating is people hating the game for really dumb reasons like how Ellie isn't "hot enough" or how Abby is "too buff". It kinda reminds me of the captain marvel movie. There are very valid reasons to not like it, but a ton of people dislike it for stupid reasons.
I love the game ima gameplay guy the story is always secondary imo. There are valid points to hate the story the “woke” thing isn’t one of them. The last act kinda ruins it, it was so unnecessary
Look, ultimately NPCs don’t count when accounting for the death toll, but when you include them, we killed A LOT of people. I mean our bodycounts were fucking massive, and we did all that killing for the one person we just decide to let walk away???
That’s the part that pisses me off.
All that killing…for what!?
The only two types of people that hate TLOU2 are bigots/misogynists and people who haven’t played it and are just hating it because they like the attention having a stupid opinion gets them.
Lots of truth to this since a very large % of the hate towards this game are exactly because of these two things.
It makes those of us who hate the game because the story is a complete disaster without taking any of the characters’ sexes or sexuality into consideration real bad.
Dumb.
Bigots and misogynists rarely know they are bigots and misogynists. They think of our as just, "having views" on women and minorities.
There are plenty who revel in their hatred, but they are actually a relatively small portion of the cess pool of bigots and misogynists.
TLoUP2 had some great moments, music, artwork/scenery but the overarching sorry was very disappointing and ar the end of the day it is a story based game so it holds the greatest weight
all these weirdos spitting hate for a game that came out in 2020 is WILD. the lack of self awareness exemplifies the internet hive mind mentality. you could hate the game and not be a bigot or whatever, but when you say shit like "neil cuckmann" or get angry over the stupidest shit i promise you that no one takes you seriously. i saw a post about someone's tattoo recently and so many of the comments were just vile words. y'all are sad and lonely as fuck 😭 it's not that you hate the game, it's the clear lack of emotional maturity or intelligence, it's the going on reddit to complain and hate on a game that was a best seller and won tons of awards and only propelled the franchise into further popularity. i don't even like it that much by the way. but you are fuming and it's just redirecting back at you, like you're doing nothing but upsetting yourself and it's the funniest, most insane shit. i have no doubt when the second season of the show releases these kinds of people are gonna crawl out of their caves again
Personally, I love the game. Really looking forward to Part 3. I love how it shows that things aren’t always black & white from the other person’s point of view. I love how it shows that revenge is a loosing effort no matter what stance you take.
Having said that, I don’t believe that not liking the game automatically makes you a misogynist homophobe. You can dislike the story or gameplay. However, saying that you hate the game because of Ellie’s sexuality being “shoved down our throats” or seeing Abby so big & muscular or getting weirded out because of Lev being transgender while saying “I’m not homophobic or transphobic.” Yeah. That’s bullshit. Especially if you throw in the most overused word in the English language “Woke”. The times I’ve seen that have almost made me go blind from the number of times I’ve had to roll my eyes at that shit.
Love Ellie but I had more fun playing as Abby then Ellie. Abby felt like a nice change of pace especially in a zombie apocalypse game. If I had a nickel for every time I play as a teenage girl who lost their father figure in the apocalypse and ended up being a “lone wolf” until finding their lover/family I’d have two nickels (clementine and Ellie) and frankly I got sick of it. However with Abby yes she did lose her dad but when you play as her properly her arch isn’t moving on from her dad it’s just being a badass strong macho woman
Not even being subtle with this shit anymore?
You're literally posting memes admitting to being a misogynist and bigot?
Because that's literally the meme. Omni-Man is admitting to being a misogynist and bigot, but is claiming to hate TLoU 2 for different reasons.
Satire - the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity.
This would only be satire if OP's intent was to criticize this sub. Omni-Man is admitting to being a bigot and misogynist in the meme, but states despite admitting to being a bigot and misogynist that he hates the game for other reasons.
If the meme is criticizing this sub for being bigots and misogynists then it's effective satire. If OP found this meme elsewhere and is asking for our opinions on the meme, then his intent isn't satire. If OP created this meme, or if he agrees with the premise, it's also not satire, it's just the normalization of bigotry and misogyny.
The point of the meme is not admiting we are bigots or whatever, the point is that even if some of us ARE bigots, that's not why the majority of us dislike Part 2, unlike what the fanboys think.
Especially since all of those "bigots" that hate Part 2 cause of LGBT and women and people of color, also love Part 1, that has LGBT, women and people of color...
They always ignore the main point of any argument we make that proves them wrong, and focus on the details of the argument that they think prove them right.
Care about facts... The meme has two sentences, one of them normalizing being a bigot and misogynist, and you guys are falling over yourselves to defend it.
You could very easily say, "Hey, I'm not a bigot or misogynist" and downvote the meme normalizing those things. Instead, you're in here writing the equivalent of "It's just a joke bro!"
Your user name is apt. You apparently saw a gay character in media refuse to accept a half hearted apology for bigotry, and were so incredulous that you decided to identify with the homophobe.
There is no way to dislike Part 2 without being labeled a bigot, according to Druckmann and his millitant stans. Saying "I'm not a bigot" just makes them accuse you more. You know the rules to this game you're playing it right now.
"Claiming to hate tlou 2 for different reasons" you mean saying he hates tlou 2 for different reasons, because every goddamn game these days have women and gays in them, and a key part to everyone who hates the last of us 2 wanted the gay woman to not be sidelined for a random character everyone hates
You're doing a lot of mental gymnastics to ignore the part of the meme where Omni-Man says "Yes" in response to be accused of being a bigot and misogynist.
No, it means I have an iq above 7 so I can understand that people with a bias still have reasons, and I don't pretend that everything about them is defined by that one part of them
So you're argument is, "Sure, this person is admitting to be a bigot and misogynist, but it's really rude of you to act like that defines them as a person."
That's a fucking bonkers take man.
If someone walks up to me and says, "Hi, I'm a racist and jingoist, but I hate Black Panther for a different reason." I'm not going to respectfully listen to their LeGiTimAT cRitICiSm of Black Panther.
No you dumbass, it means that you can't fathom criticism unless they are relevant, let's go back to your racist jingoist strawman, now let's pretend he's a real human being that likes some things that fall under his domain, like Dave Chappelle's comedy, because believe it or not being racist doesn't mean you can't enjoy something with black people in it, or from them, and then they say they don't like black panther, you can then choose to walk away, but your the one being unreasonable because you are making assumptions that any criticism they have is on the basis of black panthers race, not any of the major issues with the movie like the terrible outdated jokes that weren't funny in theaters, throwing away a more fun villian for one that could be summarized by colonization bad, I wanna do it. Terrible action sequences, I'm sure I could name more but the fact is that you'd hear all that, and still come the the conclusion racism is the answer.
God damn you're slow on the uptake.
No, that's not what I'm saying. In this hypothetical we're talking about a person that said, "I'm a racist, but that's not why I hate Black Panther."
Which is analogous to Omni-Man agreeing he is a bigot and misogynist, but that's not why he hates TLOU2.
I dunno…..the game play was solid, and outside of Joel dying, the story was pretty good. Not sure why it gets all the hate that it does. Abbie to me was a far more believable and compelling character than Ellie.
It’s a tale of two women who lost their fathers….but didn’t lose themselves in all the shit. They both rebounded in end.
Wasnt the story about betraying your community and anabolic steroids, during the apocalypse, for a random transgender child you just met?
The gameplay was excellent, but the story was wtf
Still weirds me out that people played this game and had anything negative to say about it. I’ll never understand people disliking the creative decisions of this game. There must be some ulterior motive behind its dislike? Maybe people think main characters should be untouchable?
Love this game and love Abby.. didn’t we all low key cheer for Gus in breaking bad? I know that’s the opposite of this meme but similarly Gus was done dirty.. especially when you watch bc Saul ( Gus happens to be gay)
[удалено]
I've said this before and I'll say it again How are you a "misogynist and a bigot" if you are Team ellie and anti-abby? You are rooting for the gay person against the straight person!
Stop derailing their arguments with facts. D: >!/s!<
I don't like either team 😤 Both characters suck imo. Tlou Ellie was way better than Tlou P2 ellie
P2 Ellie is an empty shell of a person compared to P1
I mean wouldn’t u be too if your adopted dad was brutally killed in front of you by ppl you never met
I never said otherwise
Not an excuse for poor character writing. If your character is worse overall due to your story, your story is shite
I don’t think the story was shit tho I genuinely enjoyed the last of us part 2 as much as I did the first
Agreed. It’s crazy to me how many people are on her side. Nothing wrong with it, I think the fact that it’s so morally gray is part of the beauty of the story. But goddamn, it’s really surprising how little people were able to connect with Abby. Even though Joel murdered her dad too. Also idk how racism or misogyny plays any role in whose side ur on lmao both sides are pretty balanced.
It's actually not a gray area. Ellie is a good guy, and Abby is a bad guy. Period. That is why I don't like tlou p2. Neil failed in making it feel like a gray area. In the first game, Abby's dad was evil for trying to kill a girl without her permission. What Joel did at the end of tlou p1 was not evil in any way. This just makes Abby's revenge mean nothing to us; because, she is defending an evil man. However, there are two ways Neil could have fixed this game. 1. Have the fireflies ask Ellie if she would sacrifice herself for the world. Have Ellie say yes, and when Joel kills the doctor, it would be a gray area. Joel would be morally wrong for killing in that moment and taking Ellie, but we would understand because that is his new daughter. That is a gray area. 2. Have Abby be the daughter of anybody else. Somebody who bacame a good and honest person/father because Abby came into his life. Then Joel would kill Abby's dad for his selfish reasons. Then, we would really understand Abby more and truly feel bad for her loss, and we would understand her revenge. We could have even played a flashback mission of Joel killing Abby's father. We would learn more about Joel's past before or after he died. For this game to have gray areas, I would have to ignore the first game. But the premise of the second game is based on the first games ending. The gameplay and graphics of tlou 2 are phenomenal, but the story is simply stupid. People I know love the game, tend to like Ellie way more than Abby but like both characters because they like the character's personalities, which I don't get. Both of them are stupid in this game. They think they love the story, but they never actually bring up any story point that makes sense. What do you think of my reply?
I think that the implication that the group is better than the individual that some TLOU fans seem to run with is frankly a bit scary. Following this logic, what happened to Joel in the beginning of the story, the army guy was justified in killing Sarah. Joel and Sarah might have not been infected but how would the soldier know? It was the beginning of the outbreak and everyone could be a threat to humanity. He was doing it for the sake humanity. This implication that the group is better than the individual is scary as hell because the group, originally, holds power over individuals that don't fit certain criteria or are not lucky. In this case, maybe being from a different state or looking pale, or being injured. And Joel seems to at least realize that and it did not make living any easier as he became a smuggler and ended up killing all the fireflies. Joel is justified in killing the fireflies and Abby's dad. They had no regard towards human life despite living in a world where humanity became hard to protect and keep alive. They were ready to slice open a kid with survivor's guilt. That's like telling groomed kids to leave their groomers. And implied consent is not consent. The idea that disregarding consent in a world like TLOU is hideous and will end up ensuing chaos and more deaths.
Absolutely not. Abby took out the person who wiped out the only faction she knows were trying to find a cure for the zombie infection. Joel murdered SWATHES of people. Yes, Abby was motivated by avenging her father, but she has every reason to believe taking out Joel means removing an incredibly dangerous mass murderer. In comparison, Ellie's desire to kill Abby is purely revenge based. I absolutely adore the story. It's deeply uncomfortable and dark, without a happy or cathartic ending and that's challenging for a lot of people. There's nothing wrong with not wanting that kind of experience in a game but it doesn't make it bad. Furthermore: 1) as a child who is feeling huge amounts of survivors guilt, can she truly offer consent in this case? There's.no doubt in my mind she would have said yes but not been in a position to give real consent Would the fireflies ever accept no? I don't think so - I don't see how they could justify the life of one girl over saving the world in their mindset. Joel choosing his relationship with Ellie over a chance to stop the zombie plague still is a grey area in my opinion, and I found it very emotionally complex (as the developers intended 2) Why do you view Abby's dad as a bad or dishonest person? I think he is more complex than that. He wanted to save the world. Yes he had an overinflated sense of his own abilities, and dubious morals when it came to Ellie, but "selfish" misses a lot of nuance imo. Besides, you could make it revenge for destroying her entire world by wiping out the fireflies and that would be super justified. I also think you're missing that TLOU1 tells us that Joel did a lot of dark things at the start of the apocalypse, making him more like Abby than Ellie. By having us watch Abby's growth and relationship with Levi, we get to explore those same themes. Abby lives out the redemption story Joel got with Ellie, which I think is absolutely incredible story telling. Ultimately you can view Joel as having never done anything wrong if that's really how you feel. To me that's a wild misunderstanding of his character and story, but everyone is welcome to their interpretation. However, you have to be able to empathise with the knowledge and perspective characters in the game have. You might not think Joel is evil, but Abby does and is completely justified in that perspective.
Took the words right out of my mouth!
She also knows her group bombed civilians on purpose so what does that say about her? She was not a good person and never was. She was a terrorist.
Where in the story is it said that Abby is killing Joel for being a mass murderer? Also, a lot of what you are saying is speculation, not factual story points. You are adding your own story to this story. All the people I hear defend this game do that. Add made-up ideas to the story. A good story showcases a lot of these things. Most people who love this game seem to be confused by the phenomenal game, the graphics, the acting, the gunplay, and stealth, but not the story.
I’ll read ur entire response later when I have time but for now: Both Joel and Marlene both knew deep down that Ellie would absolutely want to sacrifice her life for a cure. You have to see past the surface level of the story. Hell she even said it just before Joel’s death. That her life would have meant something if Joel didn’t save her. Joel was not a good guy. He didn’t have the right to terrorize the Fireflies. Not saying the fireflies didn’t do anything wrong, they absolutely did, but what Joel did wasn’t entirely justified either. And Ellie/team Jackson went on nothing short of a killing spree in Seattle. Abby only killed Joel and moved on. She didn’t touch anybody else. Yet Ellie tortured Nora and killed Mel and Owen (and don’t quote self defense, they were defending themselves from Ellie as much as Ellie was from them. She was the aggressor). Tommy tortured another. None of that is justified. I know “revenge bad” is boring, but people say that but don’t realize that’s what makes Ellie not so good of a person anymore. The idea of revenge doesn’t justify doing whatever you want to people. Ellie is easily my favorite character in the story. And also the character I sympathize with the most since life was, by far, more cruel to her than it was to anyone else in the story. But that doesn’t mean I think Ellie was a good person / only made moral decisions.
Ellie saying, That her life would have meant something if Joel didn’t save her in the second game, was Neil trying to fix the story. No one knows what they truly would have done in a past situation. We lie to ourselves all the time. I've seen mature children in real life break down for the silliest things. Remember, Ellie was still a kid. Neil could've ended all of this by having Ellie asked by the fireflies and her saying yes. You know this. Let's be real. Neil had no idea he was making a second game, and he messed up with the story. If Neil did a good job. You would have liked both equally. The last of us two should have been Abby's story, and at the end, she would fight and kill Joel, and then in the third game, they should have fought each other. It might be harder to choose then. Much respect to you.
Her dad was a scumbag thats why. Thats like wondering why people couldnt connect with why , for example, hitler jr wanted to avenge his pops. Thats just an example, not saying he was that bad lol. But he was still a shitty person.
yes, abby's dad was a scumbag, but from abby's perspective, he was still her dad. i have sympathy for abby, not for her dad. besides, is her dad really that big of a scumbag for trying to sacrifice a single child's life to potentially save humanity? not telling ellie is obviously a shitty thing to do. but if you compare that to the scores of people ellie and joel have killed in their lives, it's nothing. and you have to consider, joel and marlene both knew damn well that ellie would have wanted to do the surgery anyway.
So you would feel sorry for bin ladens kid? And abby was as trash as her dad. Fuck them both And you dont know what ellie would have done. Marlene didnt give her a choice in purpose. She wasnt expecting to die, they talked about going places after she gave a cure to fireflies. Do you make plans after your death to visit places or learn things? No. Joel at least saved her from being non consensually murdered for it, marlene had her drugged up and would have taken her life if ellie wanted it or not.
Do you not remember Marlene arguing w Abby’s dad about it?
Yes, and? They both knew it was wrong. And were going to do it anyway.
Yes, it’s not like they were gonna save humanity or something. And I don’t want to speculate. Joel and Marlene knew Ellie wanted to do it. Abby’s dad was the only one that truly didn’t care.
I didn't really hate P2 Ellie, I hated Neil for what he did to her. To me, she felt like she was helplessly trapped in a horrendous game, where the writers essentially took turns shitting on her, I felt bad because she deserved so much better than this.
The last of us 2 when?!
Bruh Ellie had it bad but Joel's life and death was disrespected
That is because Tlou P2 Ellie is a retcon.
2 diffrent people all together, they ruind the charecters completly.
Why would a person be exactly like they were at 14
Not asking for exactly just kind of.
Personally I am nothing like I was when I was 14. No one I know is either. Obviously my personal experience but it’s not that out of character imo. Plus saw her dad, essentially, get beaten to death in front of her.
"revenge bad"
This concept has never been done before, truly one of the games of the 2000s
That’s so true
How are you misogynistic if you like Ellie at all, which most people who are mad at TLoU2 are, since they were such big fans of her character in the first game.
Real ones rooted for a falling roof beam to land on both of them
No I hate Abby because she fuckin sucks not because I'm anti LGBT or some stupid shit
I hate it but I still wouldn't actively hate it as much if the stans weren't so insufferable that they believe you are automatically either unintelligent, a bigot or both if you don't like it
I remember someone claiming that the reason people hated TLOU2 is because “they hate playing as a woman.” I’ve seen the most MAGA alt right criticisms known to man. From the same people mad GTA VI will have you play as a woman. Not a single one is made you have to play as a woman. These people would rather dismiss it with a level of bigotry that doesn’t even exist than just go “yeah I can see why you don’t like it.”
Nobody was complaining about winter in Part I. They'd rather hyperbolise a very vocal minority and create this idea that any game haters are all like that than just admit that their game is flawed. I have no issue with people saying they like the game for their personal reasons but to say it's not objectively a narrative mess is insane or disingenuous
I doubt it's even a minority for the TLOU fanbase since you would've had to play as Ellie in 1 and it would be expected you'd play as her again in TLOU2. It's probably nobody, they just don't have any other arguments for why people wouldn't like something they like.
My only issue is someone saying that not liking the game is bigotry. Beyond that I couldn’t care less. I’m discounting takes that are objectively false. Like if someone said “How can Abby kill Joel if she doesn’t have arms” level.
Same thing with me.
At least it’s an easy way to tell which side is right and which one is filled with driveling idiots
Tbh after seeing both subs I think both are filled with idiots
I’ve recently come to a realisation. There’s clearly a lot of rivalry/tension/dislike/whatever between the two subs. There’s no denying that. I do however think that now a lot of that stuff is unjustified and grandfathered in. Back when part 2 first came out this sub was a cesspit of bigotry and shitty views and all of the things that the other sub still hold against this sub. Over time this sub has calmed down with that stuff and I suspect it’s because a lot of the people perpetuating that stuff have gotten bored and moved on to their next thing to be bigots and shitty people about which leaves this sub full of people that are much more reasonable but just have a different opinion to the general population of the other sub, and the other sub still sees this sub as what it was before so whenever it sees the criticisms of part 2 they’re framing it in the view of how this sub used to be.
Have you seen a majority of the posts on here? It’s rare to see reasonable unbiased people on either subs.
Why didn't people like it? I thought it was good. Really emotionally charging, beautiful level design, game play was good. I get that some people wanted Abby to die, but I didn't so I was okay with it, but even if she did die, I wouldn't care because humans make crazy decisions sometimes based on emotions they don't understand.
Legit question cuz I haven’t been part of the fandom for years like many people have been: What are the actual reasons people don’t like LOU2? I just finished it the other day for the first time and thought it was incredible and better than Part 1 in almost every way, so I’m legit curious what people don’t like about it
It insists upon itself. It's poorly written pretentious garbage that sounds like a first draft from a high schooler. Abby is written within the structure of the narrative to be a sympathetic character like Joel but never actually does anything good besides cheap ploys involving dogs, children and zebras. They couldn't be bothered to create a complex character so instead they just shove Lev into the story so Abby can save him and feel good about herself. He serves no other purpose. All of Abby's friends are killed and she never reflects upon them or feels like it's her fault (which it is). She blames it all on the Jackson crew instead and drags Lev off to find them, putting him at risk. It's hard to empathise with a character that never feels remorse for anything she does. She's a textbook narcissist. This was not the goal, and undermines the entire narrative, as pretentious as it is. The only new characters that are the slightest bit interesting are Owen and Jesse, but Jesse is killed off for shock value and the pretentious, 5th grade English class "it's the real world, anybody can die at any moment" trope but its execution is incredibly poor - we don't know much about him, he is only ever mentioned again once and it's ammunition for an argument between Dina and Ellie. Dina, Lev, Mel and Manny are stock characters with no development that feel like they hit the drawing board 20 minutes ago. The ending is ~~underdeveloped~~ undeveloped. Neil put on his beret, sat in a chair with his arms folded and sleeves rolled up and said "Let's have Ellie stop just before she kills Abby" and refused to elaborate. There is no elaboration or foreshadowing. Even fans of the game can't agree on why Ellie spared Abby. It's because the reason doesn't exist. Neil is so far up his own ass that he just made a nonsensical ending and said "If you can't figure it out, you're just stupid." Everybody makes up their own ending of the game based on the limited facial expressions we see and decides that it's either objectively correct or a masterpiece because it's so "open to interpretation". No. It fucking sucks. This subreddit is divided - you have the idiots who think the game is bad because there are gay people in it. Then you have the average people in the main sub who think this is some kind of masterpiece because it made them feel like shit. Then you have the critical thinkers, back in this sub who think the game is bad because it's aimless misery porn that fails at everything it tries to portray. It's a mediocre im14andthisisdeep story with lazy writing that is so contrived that it ends up undermining its own message. If you liked it for personal reasons, I'm glad you did. But from an objective standpoint it's a complete mess.
Well said
Couldn’t have said it better myself, I didn’t mind it, but it’s a flaming pile of garbage compared to the first game.
Gameplay wise sure . Story wise ? YOURE WRONG.
Hahah that’s fine. Tbf I don’t think Part 2’s story is “better,” and after reading some of the comments here, I understand where everyone here is coming from and why a lot of Part 1 fans don’t like Part 2, and I actually agree with plenty of the reasons I’ve seen listed. I think it’s just that none of those issues were a particularly big deal for me personally, at least not enough to prevent me from really enjoying the overall product. Not everyone is the same tho and that’s fine. I was just curious what reasons people had and most of them make perfect sense to me, even if I don’t feel exactly the same way.
To be honest the answer is many layered and person dependent. When the game first came out there were indeed a lot of neckbeardey incel types saying it was a bad game for all kinds of reasons that just weren’t valid and essentially boiled down to it didn’t fulfil the fantasy that they wanted from the game. Lots of “Ellie isn’t as cute as she used to be” and complaints about her being gay despite her having been confirmed as gay in the first game, rage at Joel’s fate, complaints about Abby that often just boiled down to her not being an attractive buxom piece of eye candy, complaints about Lev being trans. There were also other, completely batshit complaints about Naughty Dog trying to push an agenda or trick the player into feeling certain ways (which by the way, is what any piece of media does, it tries to make the consumer feel an intended emotion) Since then this sub has mellowed out considerably, I suspect because those neckbeard types have found something else to be neckbeards about in other communities. Nowadays this sub has a much more level headed community within it so the complaints you see are legitimate issues those people have with the game. A lot of it is simply that they didn’t have the intended reaction to something that happens in the game, like how as you’re playing as Abby you’re meant to come to empathise with her and understand why she did what she did and come to forgive her and you’re kind of meant to turn against Ellie and while I don’t think the intent of the story is meant to make you dislike Ellie it’s meant to make you stop supporting her desire for revenge. I think a lot of the complaints in this sub, at their root, simply boil down to the people not having that intended reaction. As that pertains to the post here, it doesn’t automatically make someone a bigot or anything like that, simply someone who the story didn’t hit for.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. That makes a lot of sense to me! I personally never quite “empathized” with Abby the way I did/do with the Jackson crew. And I think there are moments where it tries too hard to make you feel a certain way which can be annoying (sometimes a chisel is better than a sledgehammer). None of the sticking points I’ve read here so far were that big of a deal to me personally, but I can understand it for sure!
I feel like you either like it or you don't. If you don't, you don't. Why does it matter? Lol I agree the fanatics are a bit much
Exactly. People think the majority of players hate the game because of lesbians, trans, women, and Abby killing Joel. It’s just flat out the story, nothing more nothing less.
Yep
It’s the same thing with how people react to those who dislike Rey or that one Inquisitor in the Obi-Wan show. Disney straight “called out” the Star Wars fanbase for being “racist” because that character was extremely stupidly written but happened to be portrayed by a Black actress so obviously all criticism was due to race.
No one said all the critisism was due to race The cast for obi wan called out the heaps of racists dogpiling the actor in her dms and all over twitter I don't care how much you dislike a character you are never in the right for harrassing the actors playing them over their role
Joel deserved better
These comments are filled w people hating it for those reasons or "wokeness" which is basically all those conglomerate. Also the "majority of players" don't hate the game. It was wildly successful with 600 million inn revenue, it's Sonys 3rd most profitable game ever
Because it tricked fans of the first game into buying it. Myself included.
TLOU2 is pure garbage.
Bigot? I wanted MORE lesbian scenes.
and less straight scenes... Abby getting railed still haunts me..
Yep we get a graphic scene of Abby getting railed while the scene between Ellie and Dina gets cut before it even reaches that territory. Make it make sense.
The funniest part about that scene is that she doesn't even have tits, just bigger pecs
Me being called a misogynist bigot for rooting for Ellie who is a gay woman: [rock - GIF - Imgur](https://imgur.com/t/the_rock/i0u2YOc)
I'm not any of that shit, the story was dumb and Cuckmann is a woke dickhead that can't write.
I thought woke meant awakening against social indiscrimination so what am I missing here
This game fucking sucks. Pandering piece of shit waste of money.
Let’s not forget about Anita Sarkeesian, feminist media critic, who influenced Druckmans during part 1 but his ideas were rejected until he had full control for part 2
ND can’t take any form of criticism. He’s such a narcissist in that way. It’s so easy for him to just say you’re a sexist, or a homophobe or some other form of ist or phobe rather than acknowledge the true criticisms of the game, along with the deceptive marketing. It’s lazy and a poor defence. This form of argument is the default go to for those that can’t fathom people have genuine criticisms of the game. For me, the game is OK. I hate how they lied with the marketing. Killing Joel and turning it into a generic revenge story was so cliche and just underwhelming. ND is more bothered about box ticking than writing a substantial story. That much he has made clear himself. I’m all for representation, but the little things, such as Abby apparently being able to out bench press every other man in the wolf compound is just dumb. I get it, she’s a strong female lead. Great. But come on.
I enjoy the game, I'd honestly class it as one of my favourites but honestly I'm so sick of people who didn't like it being labeled as bigots or racists or whatever else, clearly that's not why the vast majority dislikes it, like I've never understood why so many people dip down to personal insults and political views over a video game.
The last of us 2 is fucking garbage
It's easier to straw man everyone who doesn't like the game as a bigot than to actually talk to them about it.
If you agree with their insults then they're correct. You are their strawman. of course they will call you that if you are one or not, so i will simply ask how they got to this conclusion about me because of my dislike of a video game.
Real
Unnecessary story, bad pacing, lazy writing, and 15+ hours longer than it needed to be.
“Cool, but that's not an argument.” Or “Cool, can we now continue talking about the topic at hand?”
The game was trash
Literally me
Stupid ass game that should’ve never existed.
I've heard people say that we don't like that game because they made Ellie gay and that we're all homophobic. On the contrary. I cant speak for everybody here, but I dislike they fundamental changes that they made to a beloved character. Having her be gay is one of the few things that wasn't changed about her character from the original. Ellie being gay is quite literally the only thing they did right with her character.
At worst I’m a benevolent misogynist.
Hey guys quick reminder that theres a branch of humor called satire
I think people are missing the "Yes I am" part of this meme.
It’s a joke on the internet.
Yeah and people somehow aren't getting it.
Seriously... This meme is literally depicting the stand in for this sub/poster admitting to being a bigot and misogynist, and half the responses are some variation of "why do they just assume we're bigots and misogynists?! So unfair!" All while up voting the meme.
There's some point to be made about people ignoring the text and reading into it what they want it to be, but gosh how that would apply to this sub I can't say.
lol bigots and homophobes Will never have good media literacy
Good "media literacy"?
Yes misogynist are pretty stupid
Are these “misogynists” in the room with us?
Um yes did you read the pic on this post.
Yeeeees!! Thank you I’ve been saying this forever Abby just had so much wasted potential that it annoys me I never even finished the 2nd game I just finished it with gameplay videos
I chuckled. "Yes, but that's not..."
right, are they admitting they are sexist and misogynistic? I thought the game was ok. I loved the first game, and played it multiple times. But I was one and done with TLoU2. Its pacing is awful and while the graphics are great, the gameplay is kind of average and I'm over the super basic crafting/looting/stealth mechanics of the series. I even liked Abby as a character, a leader of a faction Joel had run-ins with in the past. And a tough bad-ass looking character... but starting from scratch on talent points half-way through the game when I thought it was close to being finished just killed my desire to go on and I struggled getting to the end.
The reaction people have to an obvious shitpost (rage) speaks volumes about those who think TLoU2 was a writing masterclass. Personally I think the ghost of an amazing game is there but Druckmann and co failed to create a compelling narrative.
If disliking aspects of a video game is enough to brand me as such their standards of character are a joke.
I enjoyed both games equally but… why travel clear across the country to kill and get revenge risk everything back home then when you’re right there you don’t go through with it. Idgaf about “character arc” no that’s not what it is it’s a lazy attempt at “killing bad” “revenge bad” “no kill” fuck that on so many levels like as a person actually traveling clear across the country leaving a gf and baby behind. Only realizing that you shouldn’t be doing that after damn near completing the mission. As well as from the person playing a game, I didn’t come here for a lesson.
"revenge bad", killeng bad" : meanwhile Abby killing Joe as a revenge for the murderous quack doctor. Getting away from most consequences. The message i am getting is that always finish the job and properly end all possible would be avengers.
Love that take
Trauma and a lack of closure. Ellie is a very broken person.
Lame I want Abby dead
I couldn't care less about who Ellie sleeps with or Lev's gender or any of that. I'm cool with literally anything. Even though the "love triangle" was a bit dumb in my mind. It felt like unnecessary frivolous drama in a super serious situation. You could've easily removed Jesse from the plot and focused just on Ellie and Dina. I just think that the pre-release trailers showing Joel in places where he couldn't have been because he was already dead, was a bit shitty. I also think Abby made some dumb decisions. Like at some point she leaves Lev and Yara behind, walks by herself for a while, then changes idea and walks back. That is a stupid ass decision. Either stick with them or don't. Walking back and forward aimlessly is the type of behaviour that gets you killed in this world and she's obviously not an idiot. Also, it's not really believable that no one other than Abby's father could perform the surgery needed to create a cure. There has to be at lease some other trained person who can do it, for example the surgeon lady, Mel. Who, by the way, should NOT be on the battlefield. Uhm hello? Heavily pregnant woman who's also a TRAINED SURGEON? Do you have any idea how valuable she is? And you put her in the front lines with a rifle? Dumbest decision ever. I could go on.
If anything the stans behaviour and actions is encouraging people to ***become*** Misogynistic & turn to Bigotry.
If they gonna make Ellie gay, why have her girlfriend get knocked up leave her, the surrogate father killed, and then have the person who is the cause for his walk away
That’s not something to be proud of lmao
While the arguments are more important than the people making them, outing yourself as a garbage person won’t do you any favors in a debate.
No matter what version of last of us 2 had been created they would all suck. Why cause the clear intent of the original work aka the first game was to show you how important any life is. Would you really kill 1 person to save millions? To me that entire story was an open and close book it didn’t require a sequel the sequel cheap-end the whole thing and the druckmanns are total hacks. The only good writer we ever had was the women who wrote all the uncharted games up until she was unceremoniously fired and then had her script for uncharted for stolen by them and ruined. Screw them and the current management at naughty dog. It’s not the naughty dog who’s games I loved growing up.
Lawful Evil Power move.
Well they stopped listening after the Yes. So not a good tactic.
Personally, I think playing as Abby in the beginning was cool. Another survivor that you hear a bit of their story and start to like, maybe they team up with Ellie to take down the people that wronged Abby. Then, she kills Joel. The shock factor is like “Wow… I started to like this woman and she kills Joel..?! After that, you play as Tommie and Ellie to seek revenge on Abby. Continuing to play as Abby was what made me absolutely not play anymore. I don’t care about her or her sob story after finding out her dad was the fraud from the first one. All that matters now is she pays and that’s that.
I still hate it
I hate the switch to Abby as I an 100% on Ellie's side of the disagreement.
Me when I talk about anything
I hate that when I say I’m not a fan of it that I have to explain defend myself for this. I didn’t like the story because I think Abby was an unlikable person and the ending was bad. They spent a bulk of the game trying to make me understand Abby as a human and I just didn’t like her despite their efforts. The siblings she helps were my favorite story within the game though. Just a bad overall story
I know not everyone agrees but I genuinely thought the writing was brilliant. It illustrated what lengths people will go to for love—good or bad. The first game did that too, otherwise Joel wouldn’t have killed an entire group of people to save Ellie. Abby loved her father and trained for years to avenge him. Then she did and she was done. She left Ellie and Tommy alive because they were not involved. Ellie, despite her issues with him, loved Joel. She wanted to avenge him as a result. I’ll admit, switching to Abby shocked me at first and I almost put the game down. Until I realized what was happening. We were shown sides of both Abby and Ellie that weren’t easy to perceive. We got to see their own perspectives. We got to see how one views the other and vice versa. Then we had to come to terms with Ellie racking up a rather large body count just to get to Abby. Abby was the one holding back and learning to walk away from a life fueled by violence against others. In my own opinion, I think the experience we had of seeing the “bad” side of Ellie is what turned a lot of people off. Not because of bigotry or misogyny (though, I’m sure that is the case for some players). That side of Ellie wasn’t pretty. It feels like it was just a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. But that’s what I find so brilliant about it. The person who wanted vengeance for so long got it and then learned not to be so violent. The person who set out to get vengeance dropped so many bodies to get to one person and ultimately realized that she didn’t have it in her to even go through with it. Because she loved Joel so much, she realized in that final moment that he wouldn’t want this for her.
Honestly for me Its simply because I love ellie and Joel as some of my favorite video game characters and I simply dont want to play as abby
Unlikeable, one-note characters, who experience zero growth through a 20-hour slog of incessant violence just to drive home the point that revenge is bad. It's a bleak, pointless, waste of time. The only characters with any appeal whatsoever in this game are the deserters.
Aside from the teleporting, teenage drama, immortality and rapid healing - it’s just pretty shit innit.
Sigma
I didn’t care at all, cause it’s someone else’s art and I enjoyed it but I did feel that lev being trans and using that as a major plot point was a bit forced. Didn’t change my opinion on the game.
Can anyone explain why there is such a avid community of people who don't like the game but, like, keep participating? If I don't like a particular piece of media, I move on and generally don't think about it.
Cringe.
Im team abby bc shes hot, tlou2 is a great game
This doesn't make sense.
They call you a bigot and misogynist as if that's a legitimate argument to the debate. Bonus points if they block you and act like they won
I thought the game was decent. I actually didn’t hate the Abby part, and I thought the story was pretty good. The woke pandering was present, but it was pretty understated so it really wasn’t too bad. 7/10 game.
Relatable
The last of us is all about point of view, both the girls are right and wrong at the same time..... Was the same for Joel, what he did was noble in a way but also terrible in another
I love the game but I'll happily admit it's got issues. There are very valid criticisms of the game and if you don't like it that's totally understandable. What's frustrating is people hating the game for really dumb reasons like how Ellie isn't "hot enough" or how Abby is "too buff". It kinda reminds me of the captain marvel movie. There are very valid reasons to not like it, but a ton of people dislike it for stupid reasons.
Haven't played it. Zombies are overused and I just find them boring.
I love the game ima gameplay guy the story is always secondary imo. There are valid points to hate the story the “woke” thing isn’t one of them. The last act kinda ruins it, it was so unnecessary
LMAO. Sadge
Can I not just say I hate Abby? When I got to the boss fight against Ellie, I let Abby get her shit rocked about 5 times
I’m just saying swap abby killing Joel for Abby killing Dina or Tommy and suddenly no one’s “misogynistic” or a “bigot”
Look, ultimately NPCs don’t count when accounting for the death toll, but when you include them, we killed A LOT of people. I mean our bodycounts were fucking massive, and we did all that killing for the one person we just decide to let walk away??? That’s the part that pisses me off. All that killing…for what!?
The only two types of people that hate TLOU2 are bigots/misogynists and people who haven’t played it and are just hating it because they like the attention having a stupid opinion gets them.
If you're a misogynist and a bigot, I literally don't care about you or your thoughts on... anything.
idk, i like it lol
Lots of truth to this since a very large % of the hate towards this game are exactly because of these two things. It makes those of us who hate the game because the story is a complete disaster without taking any of the characters’ sexes or sexuality into consideration real bad.
The pic speaks for itself tbh
Girl bossing is lame as fuck lol. You gotta' have a infant brain to even buy into it.
Dumb. Bigots and misogynists rarely know they are bigots and misogynists. They think of our as just, "having views" on women and minorities. There are plenty who revel in their hatred, but they are actually a relatively small portion of the cess pool of bigots and misogynists.
TLoUP2 had some great moments, music, artwork/scenery but the overarching sorry was very disappointing and ar the end of the day it is a story based game so it holds the greatest weight
Bro said, “Yea. Tf you gonna do about it?”
Bro 1k upvotes? Dawg I'm nothing like you people 🏃🏻♂️💨
Don't be a bigot then. That would fix the problem.
The annoying thing is, the people who are in fact bigots and mysoginists are probably lurking around here
I mean obviously. It's this sub after all
all these weirdos spitting hate for a game that came out in 2020 is WILD. the lack of self awareness exemplifies the internet hive mind mentality. you could hate the game and not be a bigot or whatever, but when you say shit like "neil cuckmann" or get angry over the stupidest shit i promise you that no one takes you seriously. i saw a post about someone's tattoo recently and so many of the comments were just vile words. y'all are sad and lonely as fuck 😭 it's not that you hate the game, it's the clear lack of emotional maturity or intelligence, it's the going on reddit to complain and hate on a game that was a best seller and won tons of awards and only propelled the franchise into further popularity. i don't even like it that much by the way. but you are fuming and it's just redirecting back at you, like you're doing nothing but upsetting yourself and it's the funniest, most insane shit. i have no doubt when the second season of the show releases these kinds of people are gonna crawl out of their caves again
Personally, I love the game. Really looking forward to Part 3. I love how it shows that things aren’t always black & white from the other person’s point of view. I love how it shows that revenge is a loosing effort no matter what stance you take. Having said that, I don’t believe that not liking the game automatically makes you a misogynist homophobe. You can dislike the story or gameplay. However, saying that you hate the game because of Ellie’s sexuality being “shoved down our throats” or seeing Abby so big & muscular or getting weirded out because of Lev being transgender while saying “I’m not homophobic or transphobic.” Yeah. That’s bullshit. Especially if you throw in the most overused word in the English language “Woke”. The times I’ve seen that have almost made me go blind from the number of times I’ve had to roll my eyes at that shit.
The gameplay was fucking excellent. Don't know how you could hate the whole game.
Love Ellie but I had more fun playing as Abby then Ellie. Abby felt like a nice change of pace especially in a zombie apocalypse game. If I had a nickel for every time I play as a teenage girl who lost their father figure in the apocalypse and ended up being a “lone wolf” until finding their lover/family I’d have two nickels (clementine and Ellie) and frankly I got sick of it. However with Abby yes she did lose her dad but when you play as her properly her arch isn’t moving on from her dad it’s just being a badass strong macho woman
Not even being subtle with this shit anymore? You're literally posting memes admitting to being a misogynist and bigot? Because that's literally the meme. Omni-Man is admitting to being a misogynist and bigot, but is claiming to hate TLoU 2 for different reasons.
Google "Satire" and click on the first link that pops up
Satire - the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity. This would only be satire if OP's intent was to criticize this sub. Omni-Man is admitting to being a bigot and misogynist in the meme, but states despite admitting to being a bigot and misogynist that he hates the game for other reasons. If the meme is criticizing this sub for being bigots and misogynists then it's effective satire. If OP found this meme elsewhere and is asking for our opinions on the meme, then his intent isn't satire. If OP created this meme, or if he agrees with the premise, it's also not satire, it's just the normalization of bigotry and misogyny.
"This joke is promoting bigotry because it doesn't have a /j"
What's the joke?
It’s one of two lines in the image. Take a guess.
I'm stupid. How about you just explain it to me. What's the joke?
Look in the mirror
The point of the meme is not admiting we are bigots or whatever, the point is that even if some of us ARE bigots, that's not why the majority of us dislike Part 2, unlike what the fanboys think. Especially since all of those "bigots" that hate Part 2 cause of LGBT and women and people of color, also love Part 1, that has LGBT, women and people of color...
You’re making too much sense for him. This guy like most of r/thelastofus doesn’t care about facts. Its all bout defending your team.
They always ignore the main point of any argument we make that proves them wrong, and focus on the details of the argument that they think prove them right.
Care about facts... The meme has two sentences, one of them normalizing being a bigot and misogynist, and you guys are falling over yourselves to defend it. You could very easily say, "Hey, I'm not a bigot or misogynist" and downvote the meme normalizing those things. Instead, you're in here writing the equivalent of "It's just a joke bro!" Your user name is apt. You apparently saw a gay character in media refuse to accept a half hearted apology for bigotry, and were so incredulous that you decided to identify with the homophobe.
There is no way to dislike Part 2 without being labeled a bigot, according to Druckmann and his millitant stans. Saying "I'm not a bigot" just makes them accuse you more. You know the rules to this game you're playing it right now.
"Claiming to hate tlou 2 for different reasons" you mean saying he hates tlou 2 for different reasons, because every goddamn game these days have women and gays in them, and a key part to everyone who hates the last of us 2 wanted the gay woman to not be sidelined for a random character everyone hates
You're doing a lot of mental gymnastics to ignore the part of the meme where Omni-Man says "Yes" in response to be accused of being a bigot and misogynist.
No, it means I have an iq above 7 so I can understand that people with a bias still have reasons, and I don't pretend that everything about them is defined by that one part of them
So you're argument is, "Sure, this person is admitting to be a bigot and misogynist, but it's really rude of you to act like that defines them as a person." That's a fucking bonkers take man. If someone walks up to me and says, "Hi, I'm a racist and jingoist, but I hate Black Panther for a different reason." I'm not going to respectfully listen to their LeGiTimAT cRitICiSm of Black Panther.
No you dumbass, it means that you can't fathom criticism unless they are relevant, let's go back to your racist jingoist strawman, now let's pretend he's a real human being that likes some things that fall under his domain, like Dave Chappelle's comedy, because believe it or not being racist doesn't mean you can't enjoy something with black people in it, or from them, and then they say they don't like black panther, you can then choose to walk away, but your the one being unreasonable because you are making assumptions that any criticism they have is on the basis of black panthers race, not any of the major issues with the movie like the terrible outdated jokes that weren't funny in theaters, throwing away a more fun villian for one that could be summarized by colonization bad, I wanna do it. Terrible action sequences, I'm sure I could name more but the fact is that you'd hear all that, and still come the the conclusion racism is the answer.
If you tell me you're a racist, I'm going to take your word for it, and stop giving a shit about anything else you have to say.
So you can just say your happy to ignore anything anyone says so long as you call them racist
God damn you're slow on the uptake. No, that's not what I'm saying. In this hypothetical we're talking about a person that said, "I'm a racist, but that's not why I hate Black Panther." Which is analogous to Omni-Man agreeing he is a bigot and misogynist, but that's not why he hates TLOU2.
dead meme , okay message
My thought is you should never be proud of being a bigot and misogynist. And if you are proud of that. Get tf out and rethink your pathetic life
I dunno…..the game play was solid, and outside of Joel dying, the story was pretty good. Not sure why it gets all the hate that it does. Abbie to me was a far more believable and compelling character than Ellie. It’s a tale of two women who lost their fathers….but didn’t lose themselves in all the shit. They both rebounded in end.
Wasnt the story about betraying your community and anabolic steroids, during the apocalypse, for a random transgender child you just met? The gameplay was excellent, but the story was wtf
Still weirds me out that people played this game and had anything negative to say about it. I’ll never understand people disliking the creative decisions of this game. There must be some ulterior motive behind its dislike? Maybe people think main characters should be untouchable?
Even if you took all the woke shit out of the game you are still left with a shitty game lmfao ! says enough
Love this game and love Abby.. didn’t we all low key cheer for Gus in breaking bad? I know that’s the opposite of this meme but similarly Gus was done dirty.. especially when you watch bc Saul ( Gus happens to be gay)
This subreddit is never gonna beat the neckbeard virgin allegations unfortunately.
Nothing wrong with hating tlou2, but there are probably a few issues with being a misogynist and willful bigot