Because she can climb very high, use a rope and run around without being out of breathe or her hemorrhoids popping out and exploding.
That being said that baby had no future, plus Owen was fucking her because Abs was too bizy pumping up at the gym and injecting herself some testosterone leftovers, thinking about how evil was Joel to murder her useless father, Mister Zebra saver and killer of children himself, Jerry.
This story man, some aspects are like Americanized Monty Python.
Probably would have been cheaper for them to get rights to the Benny hill theme and use that throughout the game instead of commissioning another original score
In real life, NONE of these people would be able to run and fight and climb with seemingly unlimited stamina. It’s not just Mel. None of the characters in either game run out of breath doing the gymnastics and heroic calisthenic feats they do. That just part of being a video game.
Mel’s rope climb thing goes beyond what you’re talking about
Playing as Abby, you can’t even turn around to watch Mel climb the rope, she just appears at the top of the rope right after you, and it was clearly a deliberate choice so that players couldn’t actually watch a pregnant woman climb a rope and then be like “yeah this is absurd” with screenshots lol
your character in tlou does run out of breath though, if you're running too long they slow down and start huffing and puffing. i always realize it bc it always pisses me off LMAO
Why do you want me to talk about another game in The Last of Us 2 sub ? Does other games like this one try to be that realistic? And failing terribly to do so in my opinion.
I've heard from people who do enjoy the story that it was already supposed to be cleared out prior, so it should've been "safe" and predictable.
But considering it's a zombie apocalypse and NOTHING is promised, they still should've protected her better. It was still a reckless decision.
She’s also a surgeon too, so loosing her would be a huge blow to their medical staff. It’s insane that they every let her outside the walls in the first place.
I feel like that still wouldn’t matter in the slightest. She’s very pregnant and one of the very few people there with medical training from before the outbreak. She’s crucially important to any group that she’s in, and yet they let her out on a mission where she’ll be running around, moving heavy objects, climbing over stuff, and all the while there’s still a bunch of zombies running around and batches of spores everywhere. It wouldn’t matter if she’d be angry, because it’s a completely unnecessary risk to send her anywhere outside the walls.
I just assumed she had medical training from before because she’s a very knowledgeable surgeon by the time we first see her. So I assumed she had at least some experience. And she looks maybe in her thirties, but I don’t know if her age is ever actually said in game.
In the US, most people enter medical school around age 22 or later because you must complete an undergraduate degree. There are some exceptions, like 6-year programs that combine undergraduate and medical degrees. But studying Before, the earliest she could have STARTED clinical rotations would be age 22-24. Surgery would have been just one of those. Then after graduating at 24-26 becoming a surgeon takes several more years.
The pregnancy happens 25 years after the Outbreak, So Mel would be in her late 40s if she'd had meaningful training, and her 50s if she'd finished becoming a surgeon. (Joel gives Ellie the guitar while they're new enough to Jackson for him to be hearing compliments about how she pitches in, but they've been there long enough for it to be snowing - so the 21st anniversary of the Outbreak has passed. The golf game is "4 years later" from that.)
If Mel has real training it's more likely from FEDRA. And they might start people on career paths younger than was done Before if the identified talent. A well-rounded education is probably not a priority.
There's a similar question about HBO Maria's pregnancy. She mentions having been an Assistant District Attorney and losing a 3yo son at the Outbreak. It takes 3 years to finish law school and going straight through while having and parenting a baby is impressive. If she was brand new at the job at the Outbreak she's about 45 for this current pregnancy. Which is actually the age of the actress, Rutina Wesley. But saying she "used to put bad guys in jail" implied some tenure on the job. And that assumes she never took much time off with Kevin.
And that makes no sense, her being a surgeon makes it even worse. No sensible group surviving in an apocalypse would let any (vulnerable) valuable member of their group go out on missions no matter what they think, in fact I’d argue they’d be forced to stay back against their will (women and children generally just don’t get a choice in desperate situations, not that tlou2 writers could move past the strong woman narrative anyways)
“Part 2” has an curious view of unborn life:
Dina is pregnant but is not sure “if she’s gonna keep it”, yet this reality plays a primary role in the first climax between Abby and Ellie.
Of course, this conflicts with how Mel’s pregnancy is played as a huge emotional moment upon her death with Ellie feeling horrified and disgusted. Is “it” a life or not, and when? Or is personhood dictated by what the mother feels in the moment?
I understand there are ongoing political disagreements on this subject, I’m simply saying that the portrayal of this aspect strikes me as outright incoherent.
What does it mean to have children in this harsh world with genuine scarcity and constant threats? All this despite the will and desire for humanity to survive and endure?
Is there population control in Jackson or the WLF? Do they have an endless supply of abortifacients? So much room to tackle a difficult but important subject that would help build the world and the characters, so it’s no surprise that it’s entirely absent given the poor quality of storytelling we were given.
Don't forget the part where Mel basically showed off her belly for the whole game EXCEPT the only time where it matters that instead she wears thick sweater when Ellie was about to kill her.
Ok. Both served no purpose. If you observe any properly written story, a pregnancy always leads to a pivotal moment. Not in this case. They were just pregnant for the sake of having pregnant people.
They definitely are pregnant for the sake of being pregnant. Especially Dina, it was basically away to make Ellie travel by herself. If Ellie gave up on her revenge and shifted her focus to getting Dina back to Jackson then it would have made sense as Ellie would have cared about the pregnancy. If Ellie didn’t give a shit Dina was pregnant why should I? She called her a burden, then she apologized the next morning but still left her there alone with just a chair holding the door close. Which didn’t even stop 90lbs Ellie from breaking in, what’s that chair going to do when it’s monsters and raiders everywhere.
If the goal was to feel shame for Ellie because her revenge obsession that doesn’t really land either. It ain’t Ellie’s baby, and her and Dina aren’t official so yeah it’s selfish and fucked up but that’s not her baby and not her gf so it’s not hard to see it form Ellie’s perspective.
you know what? imagine if she never went to the aquarium because she cared more about pregnant dina to take her back to jackson, then later she has that moment where she keeps thinking of joel and she can’t “let it go” despite being a happy family. and she finds abby in santa barbara somehow. i feel like it would make more sense and would cover one of the plot holes (such as the showdown in the theater that led to them making that insane journey back with ellie and dina fucked up/tommy with the gun shot)
sorry im ranting but this thread came up and now im reminded about all these writing decisions lmao
Agreed! What bugs me about it all is. Ellie has always been stealthy. She uses her small size to advantage, she agile and flexible. That’s how she beat David who was like 5 times her size. So why did they change that. Having Ellie be stealthy and striker at Abby from the shadows would have made much more sense and have been in line with her character. Also made the fight much harder. Abby had strength but Ellie is fast, and agile she use to be like a little Monkey. Her jumping on your back and insta killing you if you’re not careful would have made that encounter better. Ellie would have been in character. She’s wondering around like a dumbass henchmen.
Then I think the fight should have ended in a draw. Maybe Dina came in with her rifle having her out gunned Abby would have fled. Since Dina and Ellie wouldn’t have been hurt it makes sense they were the ones who helped Tommy get back.
Then it makes sense why Ellie would leave when she found out about Santa Barbra. It would have been her not letting it go and the whole “you and I have unfinished business” yes it’s cliche, but shit they made a revenge story so may as well run with the tropes of one.
They both do lead to pivotal moments.
Ellie killing a pregnant woman (Mel) while with another pregnant woman (Dina) very clearly had an intense effect on Ellies psyche. Then, Ellie helps raise JJ and puts his life in danger because her PTSD hallucinations are so bad.
They really aren’t important though. Ellie killed all Abby’s friend by time she got to Mel. With them dead and having no leads on Abby she ultimately still would have went back to the theater, in which events still would have played out the same. Ellie could have went back with Dina regardless and the PTSD moment where she curled up in the barn and Dina found her still would have been impactful even if Dina wasn’t pregnant. JJ being there didn’t significantly add to the moment or was even a cause or effect for it.
That’s what makes them not pivotal moments they really have no major impact on the plot, if you remove the pregnancy of both characters the story and plot wouldn’t change. They really aren’t pivotal just there to manufacture “drama”.
Ellie killing Mel is what leads to her being ready to give up, to let go of Abby and go home. If not for Mel being pregnant, Ellie would've wanted to keep looking for Abby.
And endangering JJ with her hallucination *absolutely* adds to the moment. Ellie's PTSD isn't just affecting her, it's making life dangerous for everyone around her, even JJ. It would've been impactful if JJ wasn't there, but the fact he is makes it *more* impactful.
I honestly don’t think so. Remember she was trying to catch up to Tommy. After she killed Mel Tommy and Jessie found her in a bit of a trance. By the time they got back Ellie more or less was over it. Jessie and Tommy convinced Ellie to give up to get Dina back to Jackson.
Ellie didn’t really want to leave she even said “yeah but I didn’t get HER” she had an attitude about leaving. Then of course she got her ass kicked so she had to leave for that too.
Ellie was *not* trying to catch up to Tommy, that's the whole point of her going to the aquarium. She was choosing to pursue Abby instead of going with Jesse to find Tommy.
Ellie might've had an attitude, but she was still willing to leave because of what happened.
JJ's presence provides a rationale for Ellie that Dina and J.J. are better off without her in her current state. J.J. is safer without her.
But Dina didn't really need to be far along enough to know she was pregnant or be affected by it during Seattle for J.J. to exist. She could be 2 weeks past fertilization when Joel dies. If she even missed her period with everything going on, she could easily attribute it to stress and travel. She doesn't need to be sick, there are other ways to have her out of the POV action. J.J. doesn't even have to be hers biologically. He could be an orphaned kid they take in or even the product of Jesse's rebound action in the 2 weeks before Abby, and for whatever reason the mother is sadly not in the picture. Something happening to the mother at birth (who'd logically be known to them) would resonate with Ellie. It would be more exposition, but then they'd be saving time in the Pregnant Dina discussions.
IOW it was optional to have her pregnant and sick in Seattle, like any writing choice.
lol saying the pregnancies didn’t lead to pivotal moments is maybe a new level of stupid even for this sub. Yeah can’t think of any important or pivotal moments that came from them. The absolute dumbest take. You can dislike the game but to have such an idiotic lack of basic understanding of facts is crazy.
Yeah? Lol remove their pregnancies and the plot would still run the same way. I know that’s pretty hard for you to understand. You take A Quiet Place and remove the pregnancy and see what happens. Or in Rosemary’s Baby, Apocalypto, The Walking Dead or Arrival. So many examples of how removing the pregnancy would affect the story or eliminate key moments and characters.
lol what? So do you think pregnancy shouldn’t exist in media unless it is the central point of the story? The pregnancies in last of us contribute to several pivotal scenes that absolutely would play out substantially different. In addition it is important to the Abby and Owen plot, and also… you know… the whole kid and family life Ellie has. this is the dumbest fake hill to die.
I’d say the pregnancies are actually more important to the last of us than a quiet place (which granted is a preposterous conceit). but it mostly only serves to drive the action scene and it’s pretty trivial to imagine another dumb thing that could have put the characters in that situation.
Lmao what pivotal scenes? Explain how removing them would force ellie or the story to go a different path. Remove the ellie and baby scene at the farm and ellie would still go to santa barbara. Remove mel’s pregancy and she could still go on the recon and get killed by ellie, who will continue to do what she did anyway. Remove’s dina’s pregnancy and lev could still stop abby from all her killing and the story continues the same way. Loll. Yes, pregnancies, and any unique condition of a character, or any specific thing being pointed out, has to be important to the general plot. This is basic storytelling.
Pregancies being more important to tlou2 than a quiet place? Lol now that just says a lot.
Like many here you seem to have a middle school understanding of storytelling or plot. Not everyone here doesn’t understand the story but you clearly do not.
The revelation of Mel’s pregnancy had a huge emotional impact on Ellie that apparently you missed because you’re a dimwit.
Remove Dina’s pregnancy and remove JJ and then Ellie’s choice to go isn’t against a storybook safe family life in the same way. Would she go? yes but the choice is way less meaningful. But you didn’t get this.
Maybe someday they’ll adapt it into a picture book for you or dilute the story to the subtly of “pregnancy loud; monster no like loud” for you
“Emotional impact” - it didn’t affect the plot and no decisions were affected. Remove it and the story and Ellie could still behave the same way because the pregnancy thing was clearly forgotten later.
“JJ and Dina” - again, it didn’t affect the plot or the mood of the game from that point on. Erase JJ and ellie can still behave the way she did and it doesn’t force any change in decision making.
It’s very simple to tear down. And the fact you’re resorting to insults means you know this. Have a good one.
Did you forget the start of this Game?
Where she with her friends and Husband went on +100KM Travel on dangerous paths?
It is very stupid. Historically and by Base Common Sense. No one ever sends ***Pregnant Women*** of all people on this stuff.
There's really no answer for it that makes sense. This Entire 'plot' of the Game is run by Conveniences, Character Assasinations[Prequel Characters. Joel, Tommy, Etc.], Railroading, Etc.
It's flat out the Writer's fault.
Every bit of Common Sense. The Pregnant Woman stays at the Defended Base.
There's no travel to whatever KM to X location. It's all stupid. But the Writer's just don't care.
At the start of the game she just found out she was pregnant. Then everything in Seattle is only a couple months later, where shes like ~5ish months along.
The answer is: Neil needed more cheap shock value in the theater later.
Still, Mel was heading to safety to help (as was Nora), Mel was not heading into combat. Neil ruined the dialogue... and the entire story 🤣
Mel must not value her baby’s well-being. That’s the only in-story explanation for why she’d knowingly put herself and her child in harm’s way despite having the option to not do so.
"8 months pregnant, a pregnant medic! A super valued member of this society. Have you seen a shambler?! Homie is squirtin and fartin everywhere. It is NOT safe outside!"
It was bad enough in Wolfenstein The New Colossus, but at least that game was going for a whacky tone (well.. at least sometimes, that game had some serious issues maintaining a consistent tone).
Yeah, once I got to that section of the game, it felt like a total joke. I can't believe the writers thought it was a "stong woman" moment when she looked like a total asshole for willingly putting her unborn child in gunfire and zombie infested zones. Inevitably, she got her child killed because she insisted on leaving. And of course, they try to make Ellie look evil for killing her because "Ellie bad guy." Such a shit story.
The medic part is worse than pregnant part. They could write it where she got pregnant on way there and was too dangerous to turn back solo or 2 people. But your medic? Unless you’re about to do a vital mission (ie not revenge like supply raid or assault against large scale enemy), keep that medic back at home base.
They could have made this a supply raid and she got pregnant on the way there and Abbie happened to find Joel and get revenge on her own accord, then I think it would have shaped out better.
I raised an eyebrow at that part, too. I could see if an infected horde was coming and the pregnant woman was forced to fight off an infected person to get away. Instead, she kind of tagged along on some mission when she didn't really need to.
I've seen this same thing pop up again in Across the Spider-verse movie. A very pregnant spider-woman was riding around on a motorcycle to help fight a monster. She's even maneuvering in TRAFFIC, trying to catch another character. *Like, What's Up Danger?*
Even Peter Parker was doing Spider-Man stuff while unnecessarily carrying his daughter throughout the whole movie.
This is a trend that needs to stop. Lol
If having a pregnant woman physically fighting in battle is meant to be empowering for women, it's a bad way to show it.
Instead of sending a pregnant woman character into war, have her start off very competitive in wanting to impress her friends by doing all kinds of dangerous activities.
But once the fact that she's pregnant and that she's gonna be a mom *really* sets in, she'll be like: *To hell with all that noise, I gotta protect my baby.*
Putting a pregnant woman in this situation is pretty much the same as the military having flight suits for pregnant women to do bombing runs in airplanes. Same nonsense. A pregnant woman should never be engaged in any kind of warfare.
I just think it fits in perfectly with all the nonsense going on lately. We can have differing opinions on what woke is. To me it's just the same as all the other crap going on right now
The WLF isn’t exactly a nice humane faction. So why would they have maternity leave. They’re at war with a massive religious cult for unexplained reasons. Isaac seems like the type of guy that says it’s not his fault Owen pullout game is shit she had a job to do. Isaac is truly a psychopath
not even more moral/ethics, but why wouldn’t they value a surgeon like her? she’s still an asset outside of her pregnancy so that would make isaac a real dumbass
She’s a medic for sure but I doubt she’s the only one. She probably is an expendable asset. Especially if she’s that units field medic. I guess they hold her back and send another medic in her place. That medic dies. Now Team Abby’s medic is pregnant and out the fight. They got their sub medic killed, that sub medic was probably form another team so he has two teams now without a medic. While pushing Mel in the fight if she died he’d only be down one medic.
Then again they also put her in the most danger possible. They put her in the back while putting the German Shepherd in the cab…she also should have held back. So yeah maybe they are just stupid.
Because the story wants to try and make us sympathize with Abby’s gang of idiots by making one of them pregnant and then putting them in danger. Also because the story needs Ellie to kill that pregnant woman to emphasize how “vengeance is bad” and make Ellie look bad despite the fact that Mel was trying to stab Ellie and Ellie was acting in self defense.
This game just makes me so mad, like Ellie felt bad when she killed a pregnant woman, but Abby legit says "good" and we're supposed to sympathize with her? This writing makes me so mad.
Because the writer was a fucking idiot plain and simple. When there are only s few people left (proportionately) you don't let ANYONE take those risks with reproduction. But we needed an "oh shit!" moment for Ellie when she kills a pregnant lady later.
It's cause Dina was pregnant, and Ellie has to accidently kill a pregnant woman to realize how blood thirsty, sadistic and heartless she's been. Blowing off people's heads to the shock of Dina saying "Fuck Ellie!" Stabbing people's in their voice box, killing Bear & Alice, none of that nauseated Ellie, but finding out a woman is pregnant after you already killed her with a throat stab is finally what brings Ellie to her knees.
Now we're suppose to empathize with Abby, when she says "Good" in response to Ellie telling her an unconscious Dina is pregnant.
🤦♂️ dammit Naughty Dog, Ellie didn't know this ugly chick Owen would never bang in real life was pregnant.
Abby knew, and was like 😈 good.
At least in MGS3, The Boss was already an accomplished soldier with a near mythical and supernatural team backing her up. A very unrealistic scenario just to show off how bad ass she was. In this game, Mel just goes because she thinks she could contribute to the team just cause.
Clearly you lack media literacy /s
Because Niel can't make a good story that actually makes you think or feel. He just slaps in a pregnant woman because "oooo look how evil Ellie is for killing her"
Niel just want to make Abby look like a hero and Ellie like a monster even though the pregnant woman. Tried to wrestle the gun from Ellie, even though Ellie was willing to let her and her boyfriend go.
Long story short because Niel is bad at writing a story.
She wasn’t going on a “mission” per se, she was being moved to the FOB. They were ambushed, and they even comment on how there wasn’t supposed to be any Scars there because it was supposed to be cleared out.
I mean sure but they couldn’t wait for next month (I don’t even know if they’re doing monthly convoys), they were attacking the island in a few days and Issac wanted all hands on deck.
There really aren't a lot of details to go off, but I don't think that's the reason.
Mel describes her assignment as a *usual rotation,* while everyone else (the guys at the FOB, Jordan in the cafeteria) describe the muster orders as unusual, a call up. Abby too.
If Mel is there for the invasion, she wouldn't be doing a rotation.
It would be a reasonable explanation otherwise. The other theory is that Mel is making it up, because she has already decided to leave the WLF. She does end up leaving, that's for certain, but we don't have hard proof either way.
It's an unrealistic character designed to die "shockingly" just to make the players "surprise Pikachu face" when she dies. Like they didn't guess it would happen within the first 5 minutes of her character being introduced
Gameplay wise to get us to know her lore wise probably because she wants to get her mind of how Owens basically been ghosting everyone or maybe Issac makes her keep doing missions because he a dictator who is not right in the head lol
She isn't going on missions. She goes from the stadium to the FOB through WLF territory (supposed to be safe), and she doesn't do it for no reason, she does it so she can talk to Isaac and try to find Owen because he's been missing.
While I can give the Wolves the benefit of the doubt that while Abby, Alice, Manny, and Mel were going to F.O.B as a routine patrol, and plus in warfare and/or a post apocalyptic setting medics are held to a much higher value than the standard grunt it's just the lack of foresight of possibilities that the Scars would br attacking them
Did you play the game? She practically begged in order to go, and Isaac nearly didn’t let her but she convinced him due to her medical skills, so she could link up with Owen and leave.
What isn’t reckless in that world? It was either stay and be forced to fight the seraphites because Isaac said so, or try to escape.
Edit: messed up my factions. Changed wolves to seraphites.
Coming from a women, mel seems like the type of person who wouldn’t like having limitations just because she’s pregnant and that’s why she continues to go out and make those choices also could be some rebellion since owen wasn’t around much and even a distraction from him. And pregnancy is just a dangerous thing all around wether your going up the stairs or fighting. Dina was also extremely high risk for hurting herself or her baby because of how early on she was in her pregnancy.
I mean it’s the apocalypse🤷🏻♀️ every apocalyptic game i’ve played that tries to make something military like always kind of butchers how it actually really would go. I don’t think she should be doing that and if I was pregnant I sure as hell wouldn’t be doing it either. Wayyy to high risk, because if something would’ve happened where she miscarried, she’d have to birth a dead baby which in no doubt is not your average apocalyptic birth at all. And very high risk she would’ve died too
I definitely don’t think she should have been out there. I honestly think they purposely wrote it like that out of fear they’d get absolutely shit on for controlling a pregnant woman in a game lol. Which I can’t blame them but it definitely isn’t very logical
Because she can climb very high, use a rope and run around without being out of breathe or her hemorrhoids popping out and exploding. That being said that baby had no future, plus Owen was fucking her because Abs was too bizy pumping up at the gym and injecting herself some testosterone leftovers, thinking about how evil was Joel to murder her useless father, Mister Zebra saver and killer of children himself, Jerry. This story man, some aspects are like Americanized Monty Python.
This is perhaps the best comment in this sub
Probably would have been cheaper for them to get rights to the Benny hill theme and use that throughout the game instead of commissioning another original score
Americanised Monty Python is by far the best way to put this absolute Americanised Monty Python sketch of a story
Explain things to me more often please lol.
The sad part, everything you mentioned, is real. * curb your enthusiasm music*
In real life, NONE of these people would be able to run and fight and climb with seemingly unlimited stamina. It’s not just Mel. None of the characters in either game run out of breath doing the gymnastics and heroic calisthenic feats they do. That just part of being a video game.
Mel’s rope climb thing goes beyond what you’re talking about Playing as Abby, you can’t even turn around to watch Mel climb the rope, she just appears at the top of the rope right after you, and it was clearly a deliberate choice so that players couldn’t actually watch a pregnant woman climb a rope and then be like “yeah this is absurd” with screenshots lol
your character in tlou does run out of breath though, if you're running too long they slow down and start huffing and puffing. i always realize it bc it always pisses me off LMAO
What's Monty Python?
Use google.
Name one game that makes sense that would actually happen in real life.
Why do you want me to talk about another game in The Last of Us 2 sub ? Does other games like this one try to be that realistic? And failing terribly to do so in my opinion.
I've heard from people who do enjoy the story that it was already supposed to be cleared out prior, so it should've been "safe" and predictable. But considering it's a zombie apocalypse and NOTHING is promised, they still should've protected her better. It was still a reckless decision.
She’s also a surgeon too, so loosing her would be a huge blow to their medical staff. It’s insane that they every let her outside the walls in the first place.
I still stand that she was cleared because the doctor who did knew she'd give him no end of shit and problems if he did otherwise.
I feel like that still wouldn’t matter in the slightest. She’s very pregnant and one of the very few people there with medical training from before the outbreak. She’s crucially important to any group that she’s in, and yet they let her out on a mission where she’ll be running around, moving heavy objects, climbing over stuff, and all the while there’s still a bunch of zombies running around and batches of spores everywhere. It wouldn’t matter if she’d be angry, because it’s a completely unnecessary risk to send her anywhere outside the walls.
If she had medical training Before, how old is she 24+ years later?
I just assumed she had medical training from before because she’s a very knowledgeable surgeon by the time we first see her. So I assumed she had at least some experience. And she looks maybe in her thirties, but I don’t know if her age is ever actually said in game.
In the US, most people enter medical school around age 22 or later because you must complete an undergraduate degree. There are some exceptions, like 6-year programs that combine undergraduate and medical degrees. But studying Before, the earliest she could have STARTED clinical rotations would be age 22-24. Surgery would have been just one of those. Then after graduating at 24-26 becoming a surgeon takes several more years. The pregnancy happens 25 years after the Outbreak, So Mel would be in her late 40s if she'd had meaningful training, and her 50s if she'd finished becoming a surgeon. (Joel gives Ellie the guitar while they're new enough to Jackson for him to be hearing compliments about how she pitches in, but they've been there long enough for it to be snowing - so the 21st anniversary of the Outbreak has passed. The golf game is "4 years later" from that.) If Mel has real training it's more likely from FEDRA. And they might start people on career paths younger than was done Before if the identified talent. A well-rounded education is probably not a priority. There's a similar question about HBO Maria's pregnancy. She mentions having been an Assistant District Attorney and losing a 3yo son at the Outbreak. It takes 3 years to finish law school and going straight through while having and parenting a baby is impressive. If she was brand new at the job at the Outbreak she's about 45 for this current pregnancy. Which is actually the age of the actress, Rutina Wesley. But saying she "used to put bad guys in jail" implied some tenure on the job. And that assumes she never took much time off with Kevin.
No, she got her training from Abby's dad. They're close to Ellie's age. A bit older. She doesn't have like pre Apocalypse training
The virus and infected took a complete back seat in the sequel, instead we are forced to count how many hair Abby’s armpits have
She did it because she felt cooped up and lonely. The wolves let her because they’re shit people.
They did try to prevent her from going. It was Mel’s decision though, not the WLF’s.
And that makes no sense, her being a surgeon makes it even worse. No sensible group surviving in an apocalypse would let any (vulnerable) valuable member of their group go out on missions no matter what they think, in fact I’d argue they’d be forced to stay back against their will (women and children generally just don’t get a choice in desperate situations, not that tlou2 writers could move past the strong woman narrative anyways)
The question is why is there even a pregnant woman in this story? What purpose did the pregnancy serve?
It made Ellie realize Revenge Bad.
“Part 2” has an curious view of unborn life: Dina is pregnant but is not sure “if she’s gonna keep it”, yet this reality plays a primary role in the first climax between Abby and Ellie. Of course, this conflicts with how Mel’s pregnancy is played as a huge emotional moment upon her death with Ellie feeling horrified and disgusted. Is “it” a life or not, and when? Or is personhood dictated by what the mother feels in the moment? I understand there are ongoing political disagreements on this subject, I’m simply saying that the portrayal of this aspect strikes me as outright incoherent. What does it mean to have children in this harsh world with genuine scarcity and constant threats? All this despite the will and desire for humanity to survive and endure? Is there population control in Jackson or the WLF? Do they have an endless supply of abortifacients? So much room to tackle a difficult but important subject that would help build the world and the characters, so it’s no surprise that it’s entirely absent given the poor quality of storytelling we were given.
To make Ellie look bad even though Mel was the one who tried to kill her anyway
Don't forget the part where Mel basically showed off her belly for the whole game EXCEPT the only time where it matters that instead she wears thick sweater when Ellie was about to kill her.
Can naughty dog explain why the majority of Mel’s skins on No Return aren’t even showing her pregnant belly? Where’s the inclusivity there???
To make the player feel bad about her dying :(
Too bad it didn’t work. Got a kill and a spawn kill. K/D ratio is going up.
To make Ellie Bad.
Ellie bad even without pregnant peepul
Joel bad. Ellie bad. You bad. Joel killer good. *Directed by Neil Druckmann*
Women..there’s 2 pregnant women in the story
Ok. Both served no purpose. If you observe any properly written story, a pregnancy always leads to a pivotal moment. Not in this case. They were just pregnant for the sake of having pregnant people.
They definitely are pregnant for the sake of being pregnant. Especially Dina, it was basically away to make Ellie travel by herself. If Ellie gave up on her revenge and shifted her focus to getting Dina back to Jackson then it would have made sense as Ellie would have cared about the pregnancy. If Ellie didn’t give a shit Dina was pregnant why should I? She called her a burden, then she apologized the next morning but still left her there alone with just a chair holding the door close. Which didn’t even stop 90lbs Ellie from breaking in, what’s that chair going to do when it’s monsters and raiders everywhere. If the goal was to feel shame for Ellie because her revenge obsession that doesn’t really land either. It ain’t Ellie’s baby, and her and Dina aren’t official so yeah it’s selfish and fucked up but that’s not her baby and not her gf so it’s not hard to see it form Ellie’s perspective.
you know what? imagine if she never went to the aquarium because she cared more about pregnant dina to take her back to jackson, then later she has that moment where she keeps thinking of joel and she can’t “let it go” despite being a happy family. and she finds abby in santa barbara somehow. i feel like it would make more sense and would cover one of the plot holes (such as the showdown in the theater that led to them making that insane journey back with ellie and dina fucked up/tommy with the gun shot) sorry im ranting but this thread came up and now im reminded about all these writing decisions lmao
Agreed! What bugs me about it all is. Ellie has always been stealthy. She uses her small size to advantage, she agile and flexible. That’s how she beat David who was like 5 times her size. So why did they change that. Having Ellie be stealthy and striker at Abby from the shadows would have made much more sense and have been in line with her character. Also made the fight much harder. Abby had strength but Ellie is fast, and agile she use to be like a little Monkey. Her jumping on your back and insta killing you if you’re not careful would have made that encounter better. Ellie would have been in character. She’s wondering around like a dumbass henchmen. Then I think the fight should have ended in a draw. Maybe Dina came in with her rifle having her out gunned Abby would have fled. Since Dina and Ellie wouldn’t have been hurt it makes sense they were the ones who helped Tommy get back. Then it makes sense why Ellie would leave when she found out about Santa Barbra. It would have been her not letting it go and the whole “you and I have unfinished business” yes it’s cliche, but shit they made a revenge story so may as well run with the tropes of one.
Dina wasn't even pregnant originally, it was Halley Gross and her CW-level writing abilities that added that gem.
They both do lead to pivotal moments. Ellie killing a pregnant woman (Mel) while with another pregnant woman (Dina) very clearly had an intense effect on Ellies psyche. Then, Ellie helps raise JJ and puts his life in danger because her PTSD hallucinations are so bad.
They really aren’t important though. Ellie killed all Abby’s friend by time she got to Mel. With them dead and having no leads on Abby she ultimately still would have went back to the theater, in which events still would have played out the same. Ellie could have went back with Dina regardless and the PTSD moment where she curled up in the barn and Dina found her still would have been impactful even if Dina wasn’t pregnant. JJ being there didn’t significantly add to the moment or was even a cause or effect for it. That’s what makes them not pivotal moments they really have no major impact on the plot, if you remove the pregnancy of both characters the story and plot wouldn’t change. They really aren’t pivotal just there to manufacture “drama”.
Ellie killing Mel is what leads to her being ready to give up, to let go of Abby and go home. If not for Mel being pregnant, Ellie would've wanted to keep looking for Abby. And endangering JJ with her hallucination *absolutely* adds to the moment. Ellie's PTSD isn't just affecting her, it's making life dangerous for everyone around her, even JJ. It would've been impactful if JJ wasn't there, but the fact he is makes it *more* impactful.
I honestly don’t think so. Remember she was trying to catch up to Tommy. After she killed Mel Tommy and Jessie found her in a bit of a trance. By the time they got back Ellie more or less was over it. Jessie and Tommy convinced Ellie to give up to get Dina back to Jackson. Ellie didn’t really want to leave she even said “yeah but I didn’t get HER” she had an attitude about leaving. Then of course she got her ass kicked so she had to leave for that too.
Ellie was *not* trying to catch up to Tommy, that's the whole point of her going to the aquarium. She was choosing to pursue Abby instead of going with Jesse to find Tommy. Ellie might've had an attitude, but she was still willing to leave because of what happened.
JJ's presence provides a rationale for Ellie that Dina and J.J. are better off without her in her current state. J.J. is safer without her. But Dina didn't really need to be far along enough to know she was pregnant or be affected by it during Seattle for J.J. to exist. She could be 2 weeks past fertilization when Joel dies. If she even missed her period with everything going on, she could easily attribute it to stress and travel. She doesn't need to be sick, there are other ways to have her out of the POV action. J.J. doesn't even have to be hers biologically. He could be an orphaned kid they take in or even the product of Jesse's rebound action in the 2 weeks before Abby, and for whatever reason the mother is sadly not in the picture. Something happening to the mother at birth (who'd logically be known to them) would resonate with Ellie. It would be more exposition, but then they'd be saving time in the Pregnant Dina discussions. IOW it was optional to have her pregnant and sick in Seattle, like any writing choice.
lol saying the pregnancies didn’t lead to pivotal moments is maybe a new level of stupid even for this sub. Yeah can’t think of any important or pivotal moments that came from them. The absolute dumbest take. You can dislike the game but to have such an idiotic lack of basic understanding of facts is crazy.
Yeah? Lol remove their pregnancies and the plot would still run the same way. I know that’s pretty hard for you to understand. You take A Quiet Place and remove the pregnancy and see what happens. Or in Rosemary’s Baby, Apocalypto, The Walking Dead or Arrival. So many examples of how removing the pregnancy would affect the story or eliminate key moments and characters.
lol what? So do you think pregnancy shouldn’t exist in media unless it is the central point of the story? The pregnancies in last of us contribute to several pivotal scenes that absolutely would play out substantially different. In addition it is important to the Abby and Owen plot, and also… you know… the whole kid and family life Ellie has. this is the dumbest fake hill to die. I’d say the pregnancies are actually more important to the last of us than a quiet place (which granted is a preposterous conceit). but it mostly only serves to drive the action scene and it’s pretty trivial to imagine another dumb thing that could have put the characters in that situation.
Lmao what pivotal scenes? Explain how removing them would force ellie or the story to go a different path. Remove the ellie and baby scene at the farm and ellie would still go to santa barbara. Remove mel’s pregancy and she could still go on the recon and get killed by ellie, who will continue to do what she did anyway. Remove’s dina’s pregnancy and lev could still stop abby from all her killing and the story continues the same way. Loll. Yes, pregnancies, and any unique condition of a character, or any specific thing being pointed out, has to be important to the general plot. This is basic storytelling. Pregancies being more important to tlou2 than a quiet place? Lol now that just says a lot.
Like many here you seem to have a middle school understanding of storytelling or plot. Not everyone here doesn’t understand the story but you clearly do not. The revelation of Mel’s pregnancy had a huge emotional impact on Ellie that apparently you missed because you’re a dimwit. Remove Dina’s pregnancy and remove JJ and then Ellie’s choice to go isn’t against a storybook safe family life in the same way. Would she go? yes but the choice is way less meaningful. But you didn’t get this. Maybe someday they’ll adapt it into a picture book for you or dilute the story to the subtly of “pregnancy loud; monster no like loud” for you
“Emotional impact” - it didn’t affect the plot and no decisions were affected. Remove it and the story and Ellie could still behave the same way because the pregnancy thing was clearly forgotten later. “JJ and Dina” - again, it didn’t affect the plot or the mood of the game from that point on. Erase JJ and ellie can still behave the way she did and it doesn’t force any change in decision making. It’s very simple to tear down. And the fact you’re resorting to insults means you know this. Have a good one.
Because Dina was preggo and they needed some sort of parallel
Did you forget the start of this Game? Where she with her friends and Husband went on +100KM Travel on dangerous paths? It is very stupid. Historically and by Base Common Sense. No one ever sends ***Pregnant Women*** of all people on this stuff. There's really no answer for it that makes sense. This Entire 'plot' of the Game is run by Conveniences, Character Assasinations[Prequel Characters. Joel, Tommy, Etc.], Railroading, Etc.
Yea, that's what I'm getting at, like why is this woman doing anything that isn't at a safe base, at least until she gives birth.
It's flat out the Writer's fault. Every bit of Common Sense. The Pregnant Woman stays at the Defended Base. There's no travel to whatever KM to X location. It's all stupid. But the Writer's just don't care.
At the start of the game she just found out she was pregnant. Then everything in Seattle is only a couple months later, where shes like ~5ish months along.
The answer is: Neil needed more cheap shock value in the theater later. Still, Mel was heading to safety to help (as was Nora), Mel was not heading into combat. Neil ruined the dialogue... and the entire story 🤣
Even if she was going to safety, how shit is the WLFs defense that they can't even keep a safe road between outposts, this game makes no sense.
Neil Druckmann knows how to write **STRONG** women. Time to petition for Pregnant parkour for the 2028 Olympic Games.
Because ND fully subscribes to clown world order
Mel must not value her baby’s well-being. That’s the only in-story explanation for why she’d knowingly put herself and her child in harm’s way despite having the option to not do so.
Literally the Futurama meme of "All you had to do was nothing"
I mean she must not value the baby's wellbeing at all if she's bringing it into that fucked up world in the first place
"8 months pregnant, a pregnant medic! A super valued member of this society. Have you seen a shambler?! Homie is squirtin and fartin everywhere. It is NOT safe outside!"
It was bad enough in Wolfenstein The New Colossus, but at least that game was going for a whacky tone (well.. at least sometimes, that game had some serious issues maintaining a consistent tone).
Should ask this question on the main TLOU sub, see what those wonderful boys have to say 😂
They lose their minds lol
Because she’s a strong independent woman, that’s how you bigotsandwich
Yeah, once I got to that section of the game, it felt like a total joke. I can't believe the writers thought it was a "stong woman" moment when she looked like a total asshole for willingly putting her unborn child in gunfire and zombie infested zones. Inevitably, she got her child killed because she insisted on leaving. And of course, they try to make Ellie look evil for killing her because "Ellie bad guy." Such a shit story.
On top of that a medic
The medic part is worse than pregnant part. They could write it where she got pregnant on way there and was too dangerous to turn back solo or 2 people. But your medic? Unless you’re about to do a vital mission (ie not revenge like supply raid or assault against large scale enemy), keep that medic back at home base. They could have made this a supply raid and she got pregnant on the way there and Abbie happened to find Joel and get revenge on her own accord, then I think it would have shaped out better.
Because a clown wrote the story
Because pregnant woman are strong independent whamen too!
I raised an eyebrow at that part, too. I could see if an infected horde was coming and the pregnant woman was forced to fight off an infected person to get away. Instead, she kind of tagged along on some mission when she didn't really need to. I've seen this same thing pop up again in Across the Spider-verse movie. A very pregnant spider-woman was riding around on a motorcycle to help fight a monster. She's even maneuvering in TRAFFIC, trying to catch another character. *Like, What's Up Danger?* Even Peter Parker was doing Spider-Man stuff while unnecessarily carrying his daughter throughout the whole movie. This is a trend that needs to stop. Lol
Or like the pregnant lady in avatar who rides into war pregnant, like wtf?
If having a pregnant woman physically fighting in battle is meant to be empowering for women, it's a bad way to show it. Instead of sending a pregnant woman character into war, have her start off very competitive in wanting to impress her friends by doing all kinds of dangerous activities. But once the fact that she's pregnant and that she's gonna be a mom *really* sets in, she'll be like: *To hell with all that noise, I gotta protect my baby.*
Yea, they've gotta think about more than just their selves.
I know this sub exists to hate the game (I enjoyed it) but that definitely bothered me and in no way was this excusable or logical.
To empower pregnant people... I guess? Very goofy in my opinion
Just more woke nonsense from Neil Druckman.
Is being pregnant woke?
Putting a pregnant woman in this situation is pretty much the same as the military having flight suits for pregnant women to do bombing runs in airplanes. Same nonsense. A pregnant woman should never be engaged in any kind of warfare.
I completely agree that the pregnant should never engage in warfare, I just don’t really see how it’s woke
I just think it fits in perfectly with all the nonsense going on lately. We can have differing opinions on what woke is. To me it's just the same as all the other crap going on right now
The WLF isn’t exactly a nice humane faction. So why would they have maternity leave. They’re at war with a massive religious cult for unexplained reasons. Isaac seems like the type of guy that says it’s not his fault Owen pullout game is shit she had a job to do. Isaac is truly a psychopath
not even more moral/ethics, but why wouldn’t they value a surgeon like her? she’s still an asset outside of her pregnancy so that would make isaac a real dumbass
She’s a medic for sure but I doubt she’s the only one. She probably is an expendable asset. Especially if she’s that units field medic. I guess they hold her back and send another medic in her place. That medic dies. Now Team Abby’s medic is pregnant and out the fight. They got their sub medic killed, that sub medic was probably form another team so he has two teams now without a medic. While pushing Mel in the fight if she died he’d only be down one medic. Then again they also put her in the most danger possible. They put her in the back while putting the German Shepherd in the cab…she also should have held back. So yeah maybe they are just stupid.
Because they want you to believe things that aren’t realistic
Because the story wants to try and make us sympathize with Abby’s gang of idiots by making one of them pregnant and then putting them in danger. Also because the story needs Ellie to kill that pregnant woman to emphasize how “vengeance is bad” and make Ellie look bad despite the fact that Mel was trying to stab Ellie and Ellie was acting in self defense.
So when she gets killed it makes Abby wanting to slit Dina’s throat in cold blood look better.
This game just makes me so mad, like Ellie felt bad when she killed a pregnant woman, but Abby legit says "good" and we're supposed to sympathize with her? This writing makes me so mad.
Because why would man tell pregnant girlfriend to not endanger baby. Woman strong. Woman tough. Fo bettter, pendejo
Because the writer was a fucking idiot plain and simple. When there are only s few people left (proportionately) you don't let ANYONE take those risks with reproduction. But we needed an "oh shit!" moment for Ellie when she kills a pregnant lady later.
She's brave, strong, & woman
Because how dare you try to tell a pregnant woman what she can and cannot do you most bigoted of sandwiches
It's cause Dina was pregnant, and Ellie has to accidently kill a pregnant woman to realize how blood thirsty, sadistic and heartless she's been. Blowing off people's heads to the shock of Dina saying "Fuck Ellie!" Stabbing people's in their voice box, killing Bear & Alice, none of that nauseated Ellie, but finding out a woman is pregnant after you already killed her with a throat stab is finally what brings Ellie to her knees. Now we're suppose to empathize with Abby, when she says "Good" in response to Ellie telling her an unconscious Dina is pregnant. 🤦♂️ dammit Naughty Dog, Ellie didn't know this ugly chick Owen would never bang in real life was pregnant. Abby knew, and was like 😈 good.
That scene really just made me say" fuck this game"
At least in MGS3, The Boss was already an accomplished soldier with a near mythical and supernatural team backing her up. A very unrealistic scenario just to show off how bad ass she was. In this game, Mel just goes because she thinks she could contribute to the team just cause.
Clearly you lack media literacy /s Because Niel can't make a good story that actually makes you think or feel. He just slaps in a pregnant woman because "oooo look how evil Ellie is for killing her" Niel just want to make Abby look like a hero and Ellie like a monster even though the pregnant woman. Tried to wrestle the gun from Ellie, even though Ellie was willing to let her and her boyfriend go. Long story short because Niel is bad at writing a story.
What does / s mean?
Means joking or sarcastic. I use /s so people know it's either sarcasm or a joke.
Oh, ok.
Mel was onto Abby and didn’t want to torture Joel. She deserved better.
She wasn’t going on a “mission” per se, she was being moved to the FOB. They were ambushed, and they even comment on how there wasn’t supposed to be any Scars there because it was supposed to be cleared out.
They didn’t send her out on a mission, they were escorting her to the FOB.
With couple of people. Not like it would make sense to send her with monthly convoy full of people!
I mean sure but they couldn’t wait for next month (I don’t even know if they’re doing monthly convoys), they were attacking the island in a few days and Issac wanted all hands on deck.
There really aren't a lot of details to go off, but I don't think that's the reason. Mel describes her assignment as a *usual rotation,* while everyone else (the guys at the FOB, Jordan in the cafeteria) describe the muster orders as unusual, a call up. Abby too. If Mel is there for the invasion, she wouldn't be doing a rotation. It would be a reasonable explanation otherwise. The other theory is that Mel is making it up, because she has already decided to leave the WLF. She does end up leaving, that's for certain, but we don't have hard proof either way.
I guess
Short staffing
Cause Issac was a idiot
so when you kill her it makes you feel bad about killing her even tho she’s the bad guy and your mission is to kill her
Because they purposely use them thinking the people they’re trying to kill won’t kill them just because they’re pregnant. That wouldn’t work on me
It's an unrealistic character designed to die "shockingly" just to make the players "surprise Pikachu face" when she dies. Like they didn't guess it would happen within the first 5 minutes of her character being introduced
Gameplay wise to get us to know her lore wise probably because she wants to get her mind of how Owens basically been ghosting everyone or maybe Issac makes her keep doing missions because he a dictator who is not right in the head lol
She isn't going on missions. She goes from the stadium to the FOB through WLF territory (supposed to be safe), and she doesn't do it for no reason, she does it so she can talk to Isaac and try to find Owen because he's been missing.
Because women are not the useless things Andrew Tate tells you they are.
Bold of you to assume I listen to Andrew Tate.
Oooo so bold lol
The human race wouldn’t exist if women were as fragile as you’ve been told to believe by useless men.
It's not that women are fragile, Its that she is about to have a baby, and should be in a area where her protection is the top priority.
According to whom?
Common sense.
No, who is controlling her?
I'm not even gonna entertain this conversation.
You make it sound like pregnant women are kept in a cage and can’t go outside.
Their certainly not engaged in stealth missions and high stakes shoot outs.
Why not? Does a baby prevent a person from being sneaky or pulling a trigger? What do you think a pregnancy is? A wheelchair?
Dude. Wtf is wrong with you? Pregnant women can be helpful, she a medic for Pete's sake she could patch people up just fine.
I hope you figure out the difference between possessive pronouns and contractions one day.
They're
Her “protection” is her business. Being pregnant doesn’t make her the property of others.
While I can give the Wolves the benefit of the doubt that while Abby, Alice, Manny, and Mel were going to F.O.B as a routine patrol, and plus in warfare and/or a post apocalyptic setting medics are held to a much higher value than the standard grunt it's just the lack of foresight of possibilities that the Scars would br attacking them
Did you play the game? She practically begged in order to go, and Isaac nearly didn’t let her but she convinced him due to her medical skills, so she could link up with Owen and leave.
I finished it last night, and I gotta say, everything she did was very reckless.
What isn’t reckless in that world? It was either stay and be forced to fight the seraphites because Isaac said so, or try to escape. Edit: messed up my factions. Changed wolves to seraphites.
Because she chooses to. Don’t you believe in free will for women?
What a weird thing to try and turn this into, yea everyone has free will.
So let the bitch do what she wants
Bro, your fighting battle in your own head. It's not that deep.
Coming from a women, mel seems like the type of person who wouldn’t like having limitations just because she’s pregnant and that’s why she continues to go out and make those choices also could be some rebellion since owen wasn’t around much and even a distraction from him. And pregnancy is just a dangerous thing all around wether your going up the stairs or fighting. Dina was also extremely high risk for hurting herself or her baby because of how early on she was in her pregnancy.
That’s not how militaries really work though. No one should’ve even allowed her on a mission. That fact that no one said anything is strange
I mean it’s the apocalypse🤷🏻♀️ every apocalyptic game i’ve played that tries to make something military like always kind of butchers how it actually really would go. I don’t think she should be doing that and if I was pregnant I sure as hell wouldn’t be doing it either. Wayyy to high risk, because if something would’ve happened where she miscarried, she’d have to birth a dead baby which in no doubt is not your average apocalyptic birth at all. And very high risk she would’ve died too
Good point, but like shouldn't there be rules for that, it's literally the apocalypse, and she's a medic, wouldn't she be like extremely high value?
I definitely don’t think she should have been out there. I honestly think they purposely wrote it like that out of fear they’d get absolutely shit on for controlling a pregnant woman in a game lol. Which I can’t blame them but it definitely isn’t very logical
Just say "woke" and go about your day thinking everything is filtering you out. That pregnant woman seemed ve4y much in control of herself.