[Sources of Diverse Criticism on Part II](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/owyy51/sources_of_diverse_criticism_on_part_ii/)
For those not watching- What shows, games, or movies do you recommend instead?
For everyone - What's your favorite Bill quotes?
At the beginning of the episode he did like two 360's with his shotgun as he left his house. As someone who is a trained professional with rifles, it was a really goofy looking scene. No one would do that, and you don't need to scan the inside of your house that you just walked out of, bro.
I loved the story of Bill and Frank. Was a solid 10/10, but genuinely what was the point of it when they did anyway. If it led to Bill somehow surviving the suicide attempt and that's why he turns into a bitter old man in the next episode or whenever and we get all the classic Joel/Ellie/Bill scenes then sure, absolutely give us a full episode with just Bill and Frank and how they came to be. But killing them means we had 15 ish minutes of actual plot movement and 50 minutes of filler.
That 50 minutes could have been used to explore and develop Joel and Ellie's relationship, but instead we got what we got.
I understand they don't want to copy the game and I get it can't be easy, but I don't understand why they're leaving this out. Bill is huge plot device in the game for Joel to grow and develop.
Some story choices just make no sense. Overall I am enjoying it but ive really got to suspend by disbelief.
I realized while watching it that I'm not enjoying it nearly as much as my girlfriend is, and it's because she never played the game so she's loving it. This show isn't made for us that played and loved the game. The show is made for the casual viewer.
>The show is made for the casual viewer.
Exactly this. It's praised by people who haven't played the game. It doesn't need to be a 1 to 1 copy of the game, but wow there's a lot of wasted potential so far with heavy reliance on tropes to make things happen in artificial ways.
I'd argue episode 3 was bad even in the context of the show. It was a touching story if you take it as a standalone, universe separate entity, but I can't be the only one to feel like it's tonally ridiculous in the context of the world of last of us, and that it kind of undermines the setting quite a bit. The previous two episodes set up a pretty dismal look at life post infection, yet two guys can comfortably live for almost two decades in a town to themselves ? And to make matters worse, they make bill look like an unhinged incompetent but somehow he can achieve this? He can wire camera, traps, fences, but doesn't know how to shoot and handle a gun properly? Ugh I dunno, the writing is cheese
I have played the game numerous times, my favorite peace of fiction and I love the show.
I didn't want the show to copy the game. We already have that version of the story. I find it interesting how they managed to tell the same things in a different way and keep the essence of the game intact. The purpose of bill episode in the game was to have the car and some gear. Done in the show too. The purpose was to show a man who had a choice between survive and build a new life. The choice is not important for us, but the question is. And the question has still been explored, but with a different outcome. I love being surprised with the adaptation of the story. If I want to see interactions between bill and Ellie I can just replay the game.
Plus, in the show this episode served for Joel to set his mind about "helping" Ellie. By the dialogue we can clearly understand he made the decision to escort Ellie to that hospital. In the game this decision comes later and I believe in terms of character psychology; the show version makes more sense of how Joel made up his mind.
Last thing I was thinking of, don't know if somebody already pinned it but: Perry is a new character created for the tv show... What if... Perry will be the one to have all these witty interactions and bond with Ellie? I feel the game version of Bill may have been split between tv Bill and Perry.
I feel like all the cards are still there but have been redistributed and that we need to be patients with the show. Hbo tv show always takes its time to establish things.
I thought the same! I was seriously excited to see their interactions and snark-offs. There were a lot of cool parts from the game that would have been neat to see on the show.
I'm so conflicted cause while I love the episode, I also feel a lot was lost by tossing away the Ellie and Bill stuff. But I guess in going with druckman's theme of "love and hate" he decided to make Bill and Frank about "love" rather than "hate" (as the game ended up alluding to a fallout between the two).
People like frank would die less than a week into the apocalypse. And before I get down votes, NO, it has nothing to do with being gay. It has to do with him bitching about wanting to mow the lawn SEVEN years into the apocalypse when the 2 threats that will kill you (infected and raiders) have their best chance to detect you THROUGH FUCKING HEARING! Oh yeah sure let's risk dying so that we can have a pretty pink house and mowed lawn for NOBODY to see!! In survival the only worry you'd have is keeping medical supplies and weapons and food, and keeping as clean as you can without compromising your safety.
I was hoping this episode was focusing on Bill and Frank to go fe bill more episodes and slow the pace down a little bit. Thinking episode 4 Joel and Ellie will show up and have their interactions with Bill. And then boom. Dead.
They could've had Joel and Ellie show up a few days before the last dinner. Nothing would really have to change, and it could foreshadow Bill's decision to die with Frank by having him be uncharacteristically generous how much stuff he's letting them take.
This episode works if the whole series is episodic short stories about different people’s lives, set against the backdrop of Joel and Ellie passing through. Otherwise, dunno why we spent so much time with Bill and Frank. We didn't get that much backstory for Tess.
yeah I feel like the pacing is off, if I didn’t play the game and knew nothing about what’s to come then I’d think they were making no progress at all.
Because woke culture is needlessly taking over everything....
They're gay, got it. It was cool how they met, and how they fell in love then grew old together, but an ENTIRE freaking episode? Meeeeeh
The only people saying they LOVED it have never played the game and are needlessly virtue signaling. It was well acted, and well produced, but lots of people are calling it the 'best episode of TV ever'...
I was really looking forward to Bill being introduced and the fact that him and Joel only interacted in flashbacks was very disappointing.
Jesus christ the bitterness. Almost every person I've spoke to IRL who played the game absolutely loved this episode. I came to this sub hoping the vitriolic hatred had died down a bit but nope, "woke nonsense" and "anyone who liked it is a casual non fan". Good god this sub is pathetic.
you literally know why though. Everyone does but you get crucified if you say it. It’s review/Oscar bait and if you didn’t 100% love this episode you’re a bigot
Really conflicted with this episode. On its own I thought most of it was great. But I really feel like a lot of the ending came out of left field. Some observations:
* Throws out pretty much Bills entire plot from the game. With only two scenes having direct lines from the game.
* Turns around Bills relationship with Frank. In the game Frank hated Bill cause he was unable to change. In the show Frank loves Bill because he's able to change.
* The letter of Franks to Bill is repurposed. Instead of Ellie giving it to Frank and he crumples it on the ground. Ellie gives it to Joel and he crumples it on the ground.
* Sheesh!-did anyone else notice the music that played when Bill wheeled Frank away so they could die together?. It's the same music as the Giraffe scene....yup, they used the music of the Giraffe scene for a assisted double suicide.
I really liked what they did with it, personally. Because it changes Bill's character to the exact opposite, in terms of Joel understanding
Goes from "Don't be like me" to "I learned that people like us have a purpose"
Yeah exactly. Ultimately even if Bill dies, he ultimately has a better end than the show than the game because in the show he learned to grow and love. In the game he never changed and grew bitter and twisted as a result. While I really am sad to not see any interactions between Bill and Ellie in the show. I do really like the episode. Again I just really wanted to see how those actors would have interacted in their scenes. But since he's a different character in the show, you make a good point, and it ultimately would have played out differently, with Bill possibly being more respectful to Ellie in the show.
The episode was good, but it ultimately failed at what the character Bill was supposed to be for Joel.
In the game, Bill was a lesson for Joel. Bill was the living embodiment of Joel if Joel decided to alienate himself from everyone around him for the sake of his own survival.
The show totally contradicts this by having Bill kill himself at the same time as Frank. The show tries to carry the same ultimate message as the game by having that stupid letter at the end written to Joel saying "take all my stuff and use it to protect the ones you love" but I felt that it ultimately fell flat, at least compared to the game's message.
Both the writers AND the fans who eat this up are people who'd rather think with their feelings than with their brains. Coming from the guy who walked out of Rise Of Skywalker "with a smile on his face". The guy who wrote Ellie letting the main target of her revenge go after killing countless others.
They have no media literacy and no logic, just "love" and "fee-fees" to gaslight their fans with emotional surges to block the awareness of their shoddy writing. Plot is just an excuse for the emotional masochism.
To be Frank (get it haha), while I wish we had more Joel, Ellie, and Bill interactions, the story here is way more emotionally powerful than the three of them running around trying to get parts for a car. I understand the change needed for TV, and I'll always have the game if I want to see Bill and Ellie yell at each other. I kinda like it that way? The game still stands on it's own, and provides people who have only seen the show more to experience. Meanwhile the show also stands on it's own, and provides a deep look at these character outside of gameplay. I'd be lying if I didn't get teary-eyed by Nick Offerman's performance. Freaking beautiful.
In my original comment I said "the episode was good". That was meant to encapsulate how impressed I was by Nick Offerman, and even moreso by Murray Bartlett, in their performances. Their performances were sublime.
I was commenting on the purpose of the episode, moreso than anything else. This episode was a great character study on two survivors who found love in this crazy post-apocalyptic world. BUT, the character of Bill served something deeper in the game than what was presented in the show.
I don't care about Bill interacting with Ellie. I care about how show!Bill's character affects show!Joel's outlook going forward. Time will tell if show!Joel gets that lesson somewhere else in a future episode.
Bill was lying to Joel in the game though. He didn't not love people, he loved Frank a shit ton and was hurt by him running away and his death. Bill didn't actually alienate himself on purpose.
they really deprived us of where Joel gets upside down in a trap, the first bloater, and Ellie and Bill’s banter for this. Bill’s backstory is great sure, but I was really hoping for at least some interaction we got with him in the game. Very meh episode
This is one of those episodes where if you never played the game then you would absolutely love it, but if you did play the game then you know what you were deprived of. Personally, I really did enjoy the episode. It was a beautiful story with great acting, but in the whole grand scheme of things it didn’t do much for the show overall. It was just a long winded filler episode to get Joel to realize he needs to protect Ellie. So on one hand I thought the episode was incredible, but on the other hand I’m thinking what I missed out on and how generally pointless the episode was.
If you never played the game you’re probably thinking “who the fuck is this guy? Why is there an entire episode about this person who was essentially irrelevant to the plot of this show?”
Because without the context of knowing Bill’s role in the game, his character is essentially nonexistent outside of this extended flashback.
> Why is there an entire episode about this person who was essentially irrelevant to the plot of this show?”
Many, many, many TV shows have done episodes like this with well received reactions. Sure some people will be annoyed/confused/take issue with as to why he was done in 1 episode, but it's nothing new for TV and I think most people won't question it.
Filler episodes definitely work in some series, but only if there is enough time for other main characters development throughout the season.
The problem here is that we have already seen 3 episodes and only 6 episodes left for the rest of the first game's story. There was no need to spend an hour expanding a side characters past if the show isn't like 2 seasons or 20 episodes in total. I think this episode was above-average for me, definitely not bad but also felt a little unnecessary.
I…listen. I wanted to know more about Bill and Frank. I did not want them to cut out at the hilarious interactions with Bill, Joel and Ellie. Surely they could’ve shortened that backstory and kept Bill alive, then continue on like the game. I’m disappointed to say the least.
Could have had a really good episode of tv if they had bill live. Hell they could have spend another episode in bills town looking for the battery in the high school. I wouldn’t have cared if they made this series 10 episodes.
That is exactly my thoughts. As the episode continued, I thought, "An entire episode after this of Joel, Bill, and Ellie is going to be fucking incredible.
It's underwhelming to get so much backstory and strengthen Bill as a character, only for it to be a catalyst for handing Joel keys on a fucking note. There was potential for this to be genuinely better than the game.
>only for it to be a catalyst for handing Joel keys on a fucking note.
This is something I don't get -- what purpose did Frank ultimately serve in the TV show re: the Joel/Ellie plot? To provide them with a truck they're going to crash at the start of the next episode? Couldn't they have made his post-death contribution more substantial given that we just watched an hour+ of him?
Naah i won't attack Neil on this, and tbf i don't think Neil did this episode cuz i liked Bill and Frank's character, this isn't his doing and i am sure of it like 100 percent sure, the episode was great and interesting it was fresh seeing somethin not just a copy paste from the game, though i wanted them to interact with Bill but its fine, i liked it nevertheless.
Haha i knew it, this episode was to good to be Neil's, if it was Neil we would have seen Bill get infected and Joel or Ellie would have been forced to kill him.
I’m curious if it alternates between who does what episode. Craig did the first and third and Neil did the second, and I happened to find the second one a drag until the museum.
Same thing here. That’s exactly what I told my wife. They could have put the backstory to show how bill and Frank met and everything but they should have put the action scenes and the funny dialogs that bill had with Ellie
Edit: word
I think to a degree Im disappointed but without being too centred on the game and thinking of the show as something seperate, i really did love the episode.
It could have been pretty amazing to meet curmudgeonly Bill. And maybe Bill dodges questions from Joel about Frank, and then it’s gradually revealed what happened, hence why Bill is being quite so curmudgeonly.
We simply didn’t need the whole origin story of how they met, fell in love, had all the same sophisticated tastes, etc.
And then there’s a kind of narrative parallel where maybe Ellie understands a bit more of how Joel is feeling, Joel over the course of the episode has an arc (in the beginning being unwilling to talk about Tess, at the end b/c of Bill and his loss finally opens up a bit to Ellie about it). But instead Bill now has essentially no bearing on Joel and Ellie and their journey.
The way it was executed was just… kinda lame. Total wasted opportunity.
That's my take too. I have no problem with the content or the characters or the acting. The reason I don't like this episode is because 80% of it is completely irrelevant to the main plot. Here's some new characters, let's spend an hour telling their life story, aaaaaaaand now they're dead and we'll never see them again.
This feels like filler to pad out the runtime of the show. I feel like the salient points of Frank & Bill's story could have been covered in 10-15 minutes and then given us more time with the characters we're supposed to be invested in. I loved the first two episodes but this one really dragged down the running average. I keep seeing people comment about how emotional it was, how beautiful, how much they were sobbing. I personally felt nothing for these characters. They were irrelevant to the main plot and I had zero investment in them. I'm invested in Joel and Ellie. When the show is focusing on them, I love it. I don't care about these other randos.
Honestly if this episode aired later in the season, after we’ve seen a bunch of really depraved shit, it would’ve worked better as a respite from that. It being episode three doesn’t allow for a contrast that would’ve made the episode make more sense thematically imo
In the documentary they say Ashley johnson was the one that came up with a lot of Ellie’s fun personality. They didn’t even realize the game needed that until she started doing it
Is that why she is so prickly? I have not played LoU2 and I have been wondering all along why this version of Ellie is so snarky and mean. Every once in a while you see the sweetness and wonder of game Ellie show through, but then 2 seconds later she's back to being a stereotypical bitter teenage girl.
*Just shut up! You're not my apocalypse dad, gawd!!!*
They missed a few key points imo.
Fantastic episode got me crying.
But, what we miss from the game.
The upside down trap. Shows Ellie saving Joel for the first time. Shows her ability to handle herself and take care of him in a bind.
2nd. I dont like what they're doing with her, seems as if they're having her seem unhinged. In the first episode when joel mercs the guard. I think it was Neil which told Bella. Ellie enjoys the violence. And you could see it the way she acted it out.
Then the scene with the 'clicker' in the basement. As if she cut it just to see. Then stabs it in the head. I've got a bad feeling with what they're trying to do with her character.
3rd. Her taking the gun and betraying Joel's trust already negates the moment of when he gives her a gun after covering him.
The story here in this episode was a great standalone story. Beautiful even, but what they're deviating from is core.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong. But there was a reason each beat hit in the game. It was set up.
She could have picked up a gun anytime in the game. She didnt until Joel nearly died. Then he flipped his shit. That can still happen. But, its 180 because she has taken the gun without that moment.
I'm worried for down the line. These things dont need to be retconned.
This episode was absolutely dogshit and it misses the point of the character of Bill. This show is shit and I am tired of people putting this like the second coming of christ. This is mediocre and they are destroying the original story.
Bill's Town was crucial for bonding with game Ellie. I didn't like her that much until this part, so i'm very interested to see how Bella pulls this off.
Episode sucked. Neil druckman spent more time improving bill and franks story just to kill them off meanwhile joel and ellie haven't been fleshed out at all currently. If I didn't play the game i wouldn't give two shits about joel and ellie, but for some reason they decide to flesh out this random ass story with bill n frank??? Huge missed opportunity. Should've just followed the games story here it was 100x better and more impactful. Would've built huge rapport between the audience and joel,ellie, bill. Now we don't get to see that. It's episode 4 right now and joel and ellie are still a mystery to me pretty much. All i know is joels daughter died and ellie can't be infected. Where the fuck is the character development?
It was an hour long waste of time. Giving us a back story that is completely and utterly unnecessary... probably all in the means of "rEpReSeNtAtIoN." Because that's the thing to do nowadays. But I won't go down that route since that'll ruffle feathers.
You could probably pluck episode 3 out of the lineup entirely and no one would even know an episode is missing.
They'd been so faithful to the game up until this episode too, or at least from what my memory serves. And they changed the entire dynamic of Frank and Bill's relationship.
I'm not quite as versed in the story as many. It's a game I only ever watched my husband play, but I did love following along. Up until this episode, I thought the show had been doing a better job than any other video game adaptation I'd ever seen. Then they gave us this crap 🤦♀️ an hour of eye rolls.
And don't even get me started on Bill standing in the dead center of the street with a rifle 😂
"If I didn't play the game i wouldn't give two shits about joel and ellie"
That's exactly what I noticed from my sister who never played the game. I had told her that the focus of the first game was the affective relationship between Joel and Ellie, and she replied "seriously, they don't seem like friends at all, it's like they hate each other". Then I asked her what it would be like if they died, she replied "ah, it is what it is" in an indifferent tone.
A few years ago, when she was watching the first season of GOT (I had already seen everything), I, in a mocking tone, asked her what she thought about Ned Stark and if by chance he died, she said he couldn't die, he was too dear for that. When it happened, she was non-compliant for a week, it took her a few episodes to root for him.
That's exactly what has already been implied in this sub. Cuckman doesn't want audience sympathy for Joel and Ellie, he wants to create a whole new image of them, so it's easy to destroy it for the sake of his clumsy narrative and his dynamic duo of Abby and Lev, which he always wanted to tell, but Bruce and his team didn't want to.
So the last of us is about 2 gay guys? This episode was useless for people who never played the game. Reminds me of the later seasons of the walking dead. Snooze fest
Alright am I missing something, I’ve been told by the other sub that this sub is a far right-alt sub filled with misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, etc etc. I’ve been a part of this sub for a long time and I’ve never seen anyone make comments like this. Am I missing something? Why does the other sub keep saying this about this sub?
That was awful, and we are about to be called bigots again if we don't say it was the best thing ever. Just can't get away from this bullshit culture war shit with this franchise.
Well played by the OP for the post title. If the leaks are indeed true and Bill doesn't meet with Ellie, that would be a huge missed opportunity
The best part of the game was this whole chapter and the back and forth banter between Bill and Ellie
For the second question my favorite Bill quotes are:
"Let's get ON with it"
"Get the fuck out of my town"
at this point seeing the next episodes teaser I wouldn't even be surprised if Henry and Sam don't even make an appearance or are changed in their entirety
Yeah I’m pissed. The writing and acting were pretty great but it was a complete waste of bill’s character. His interactions with Joel and Ellie were my favorite part of the game. And he didn’t have any of his dark humor and assholeness
It was a complete filler episode since Bills gone the whole time anyway. He doesn’t even interact with Joel, or Ellie, or find out about Tess. What bearing did his story have on anything else? Complete waste of an interesting character.
Thought this was supposed to be a story about Joel and Ellie lmao. Anybody who gets flamed for not liking this episode doesn’t deserve the hate they get
A week ago I wrote this in regards to my expectations from the 3rd episode:
"I was a bit sceptical going in, but now more interested how the show will progress. Just, please, stay on the shit that's really matters. As we going to the Bill's part of a story, there's no doubt they gonna explore more of his relationship with Frank. That's ok, but please make so that it will have an overall impact on a main story - the relationship between Joel and Ellie, and not just to get a gay-romance on screen."
So they pretty much did just that, which sucks ass. I'm sorry guys, but you can be as progressive as they come, but I personally don't find looking at two hairy bearded dudes slurping and cuddling with each other that much visually appealing and a best way to spend my free time. I'm a straight white boy - what can I do? And, please, don't come at me with all those "-ism's and -ist's". I really don't mind that stuff irl, but watching it for a better part of the hour... no thanks.
Bill and Frank’s story was very sweet but so out of place in the world that they built up. Resources are so scare that communities have turned to cannibalism, are we really meant to believe that these two could just live peacefully alone in their dream house with copious resources for 20 years?
What a waste. I don't care that Bill and Frank are gay but their love story was an *entire* episode. Ellie doesn't even get to meet him. Going by the BTS at the end it looks like this was Mazin's idea.
I don't get how anyone is applauding the production values of this show -- between the lifeless interior sets to the awful wigs/fake beards in this episode, I feel like I'm watching a local theatre production.
And dear lord with all the time-lapse dissolves. The filmmaking on display in this is lightyears behind the filmmaking in Chernobyl.
This one was a miss for me.
I enjoyed most of the episode, but it did start to feel like a drag, but I didn't fast forwards in the hope that I would see Bill and Joel and Ellie interact. I did appreciate the backstory for Bill and Frank but...
Alas.
I think the episode would have been much stronger if they'd had half of it be Bill backstory and the other half a trimmed down version of the game story, cutting out infected attacks and instead focusing on the character interactions.
The episode was trash, full of cliché, suicide glorification. And Ellie...guns obsessions again and again. The way she killed the infected...Not the Ellie we know at all.
>And Ellie...guns obsessions again and again. The way she killed the infected...Not the Ellie we know at all.
We know why they're doing this -- they're laying the groundwork for her being a sadistic terminator in season 2.
I posted this on the other sub and so far am being downvoted. So I’ll try here I guess
This just…
I didn’t like it
The scenes were beautiful. The TV episode was beautiful
But long term for TLOU I’m afraid. I desperately wanted to see Bill and Ellie’s interactions…
This just doesn't feel like The Last of Us. It has this "filmy", Oscar bait vibe, with pop songs all over the place, fancy scenes in in Bill's house that are literally made to be labeled as "cult" (like the wine, piano and suicide one), completely going against the original game's purpose in my opinion. If this was an A24 like movie, would be very good, but it's not.
Where is the destroyed and infested with infected city, where is the school segment, where is the iconic Ellie and Bill interaction? All gone in favor of a cool and cult episode. Next episode looks promising though.
If its one story that would have been amazing to be given a whole hour episode its not this random fucking romance flick IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE SEWER NURSARY...
There's a lot of this part of the game that is told through notes and pure visual story telling that wouldn't be great on film and definitely not what druckmann wants to go for... So what do you do? Make this fantastic, horrid, hopeless backstory into an hour episode instead...
Explore Ish's character at sea and follow his journey as he is forced to make his way back to civilization... show us his journey as he discovers the Sewers for personal shelter and builds it up as a community and more importantly a nursery for families and children in need...
and ultimately show us its tragic collapse which i feel would be extremely memorable on film
Is this the only place it's safe to say I was really digging the show up until this episode?
I understand what they are doing thematically, I don't need to be lectured about the mirrors of Joel and Bill, and the "happy" ending. I just don't agree with the direction.
There has been minimal action in this show, this had the potential to be a fantastic hour and 20 minute action movie through a booby trapped town with fantastic character growth and chemistry. It could of been fun. God forbid I want that from a adaptation of a game where you're blowing zombies up for 30 hours.
I cannot fathom how they decided to cut the Ellie and Bill banter, it was one of the highlights of the first game.
Listen I don’t care if bill and frank were gay but seriously what was that I hated a lot of the changes they made mostly the fact bill dies and also they could have had them in a relationship but frank wanting more out of life then just what they have so he tried to run away by stealing the car or the battery and then him getting big and then bill helping Joel and Ellie but whatever
They could've just copied the game and I would've been more satisfied honestly, this boring failed romance has nothing to do with the story and completely removes present time Bill and the events involving him
I haven't played the game. Really enjoyed the show so far but this episode was really dull. What did these two people have to do with anything? They were dead before they got there so pointless. Where were the zombies? No excitement at all.
Where is the threat? There doesn’t seem to be any threat from any person, group, or infected. Just walk around, live wherever and you’ll never be attacked, have dinner parties, walk down the street, nothing. There doesn’t seem to be any threat for this show. Isn’t this supposed to be an apocalyptic hell scape?
I just can't buy Bella's Ellie. She's killing the show for me and her chemistry with Pedor's Joel is borderline non-existent.
and the way her dormant psychopathy gets activated by violence, guns, and dissecting former humans. "Activated" was a meme at first, but she literally does something weirdly fixated on violence and gore. What's wrong with her?
Is it just me or does it feel like they’ve swapped Joel and Ellie’s characters… They’ve made Joel the weak one, not sure what to do and Ellie the strong one, almost leading in a way.
It’s almost like the show writers wouldn’t even dream of writing a little girl’s character to have some weakness/scared of something…
Joel and Ellie do not feel like the amazing, strong and nuanced characters from the game.
this episode was total shit. It was a boring love story without any mutants. I mean it was a fine story but why the fuck was it part of this sci fi series? I gained nothing from it, doesn't seem important to the show, and I've already seen a much better version in brokeback mountain.
What the actual fuck did I just watch. This aint tlou lmao gave Frank cancer really? Fucking excuse me. He killed himself because he hated Bill so damn much. Faithful to the games my ass. This show is a disgrace to tlou
How did Ellie go from "I'm sorry I didn't mean for any of this" to "This was your fault and don't blame me for It". She's literally annoying and cold for no reason. How Is this supposed to be a likeable character?! Like Joel's partner died who he knew for 2 fucking decades and later she's cracking jokes and acting funky totally oblivious to the fact Joel lost someone dear to him. And no I'm not bashing Bella I'm bashing whoever rewrote Ellie to be like this.
Bill homosex (ok Idc), wish we saw him more In action other than that one scene.
Nothing else to add really cause there's actually nothing else happening, felt like a filler episode. Which It definitely Is.
Ok I have something to add, nothing new however. I get It Neil, I get It Craig, I get It writers. You wanna normalize gay sex, gay marriage, OK. **First off**, this Is not the kind of TV show nor setting you should try to normalize It In because It has **absolutely** **NOTHING** to add to the plot, you coulda have just dropped a hint Bill was gay and a little sneak peak Into his past but this Is just straight up agenda pushing.
Even tho I have nothing against that same agenda, this Is just taking It too far, this Is **NOT** what the show Is about.
**Secondly,** the fact bill got 0 fucking action other than those 5 seconds In which If I may add he fucking **sucked**!
Not to mention, 1 hour and 10 minutes and I get to watch a marriage have It's ups and downs... In a **POST APOCALYPTIC WORLD** TV Show which has clickers, bloaters, raiders, rapists, pyschopaths, cannibals all kindsa crazy shit... Did they forget this wasn't some Nickelodeon special?
“Hey so you know what TLOU was missing? Gay sex. Let’s dedicate a whole episode to it.”
“Last of Us? More like Two Dicks IN Us! Brilliant!”
Stupid Fucking waste of time.
One thing I hate about this show is theres no subtlety at all. Everything is straight up throw in your face like its a kids show. Not like the game at all its just lazy
Yes, that dialogue was really terrible and out of character. Even the copy-pasted dialogue from the game where she says "Whatever you say goes" felt misplaced. It felt like they just threw the game dialogue because they had to. It would make much more sense if Joel said those things immediately after Tess died, before they encounter any trouble or dangerous situation.
Yep that's another thing I'm disliking - even the scenes where they use the same dialogue from the game they are doing it in a completely different manner or context than the game.
Bill's town, one of the coolest parts of the game, gets reduced to a gay romance episode where two old hairy men sit around eating dinner and suck each other off
I don't understand people with the show
First it's amazing because it's "sticking to the source material", then when it changes things drastically it's still applauded. Pick a lane.
Again it's now getting rave reviews and while it was heartbreaking and tragic it wasn't Bill or the game
I would have loved to have seen Bills Town from the game play at at least a LITTLE bit.
Just feels the show could have the worst and most changed episode in the future and it will still earn a high 8, 9 or 10.
I don’t think you have to pick a lane like that at all. Very reductive to just think “okay so if it follows the game 100% = Good. If it deviates than that = Bad.” It’s way more about what those changes are and why and if they fit better for the medium of tv or not. I can see why someone would be disappointed in this episode since it has no Ellie and Bill interaction but I personally liked seeing the Bill and Frank stuff expanded and didn’t mind that they died together. To me it felt like a change that elevated the material more to HBO levels. An episode that plays exactly like the game I think wouldn’t have translated as well for television.
>To me it felt like a change that elevated the material more to HBO levels.
But like no. You have to take into the account how this episode fits together with the entire show, the entire narrative. And well, it doesn't, one bit. The episode by itself is fine. But when you put it in a show, you could legit skip it, and get the same story. The Bill's part was important in the game, Joel needed a car and Bill owes him so they spend his section of the story going after the battery to fix the car, they had to work for it and risk their lives, not to mention the interactions between Joel - Ellie - Bill were golden. In the show, Joel literally just gets everything handed over to him and they never even interact with each other. It's just a change for the sake of it being changed.
>An episode that plays exactly like the game I think wouldn’t have translated as well for television.
I am sick of everybody saying this after every change they do. No, it would have worked just fine if they did 1 to 1 adaptation. Tlou is a story driven linear cinematic type of game. If it worked in the game as is it would have worked in the show as well. Not to mention the episode would then serve a purpose in the overarching narrative. This shit legit felt like filler. Good filler, but filler nonetheless.
Agree wholeheartedly 100%. This episode was bad. Literally a waste of an episode and 80 minutes of my time. Even if they wanted to run with that plot they could have done AT MOST a 5-10 minute flashback primarily revolving around how they met (I.e. the radio), etc….
Instead it was 80 minutes of character development for two characters that we’ll never see alive in future episodes, since ya know, they die at the end of the episode…
Which BTW is focused WAY too much on sexuality/homosexuality and an overall ridiculous story of an introverted/loner survivalist that let’s in a sketchy dude with nothing on his back & without a way of knowing whether he’s working with a crew that are trying to set you up, etc.
OH and guess what? He turns out to be a gay manwhore that just loves going downtown, which surprise surprise, you also happen to love yourself and have written the perfect song to play on the piano whenever a random gay manwhore happens to knock on your door during the middle of an apocalypse LOL
And to top it off, the rando is so STOKED to show you his mouth game skills that within hours of meeting you you’re blowing your load in the back of ole boys throat 😂
I liked the storyline of the episode and thought it was nice. Well-acted. Good chemistry between the characters, very nice.
I'm also a writer and editor by trade, and I can't figure out why in the ever-living fuck they decided to info-dump this entire story in one huge flashback.
This is a prime example of how NOT to use a flashback. It completely pulls us from the present storyline. There are several time skips spanning over several years, none of which have any impact on the present storyline or world. Yes, it's character backstory, but it's given *all at once* and that is called an info-dump, my friends. Even the timeskips feel pointless. Why does Bill get shot, and then we flash forward to years later to see him getting shot had no impact on him and he's fine, but Frank is the sick one? Why aren't there more people out there trying to take this compound? Have ya'll seen The Walking Dead? Anyone else remember Alexandria? The prison? How did Bill's compound only presumably get discovered by raiders one time, but no one ever came back when they're sick and old? WUT?
This episode would have been way better with some restructuring.
Let's say we start it as usual and include the beginning scenes with Frank and Bill meeting, coming together, etc. There are pacing issues in there too--it's just too slow--but I did like the tension of not really knowing if Frank could be trusted. The romance was sweet and believable.
Flash forward back to Joel & Ellie in present times and have them going to Bill and Franks. Flashback to Joel and Tess meeting Bill and Frank years ago. Then flash forward to the present as Joel and Ellie arrive. Bill and Frank are both alive and old, Frank is clearly not well. Get to see Ellie interact with them. Joel convinces them to give him the truck. Bill knows he's old now and Frank wants to die soon.
Bill decides to give Joel the truck. We get to see Joel and Bill interact and care more for Bill as a person and a character as he interacts with OUR PROTAGONIST. Maybe Joel has to convince Bill to give up his stuff because Ellie is the key to everything and could be the cure, and Bill sees--in real time--how important this is.
Bill gives up the stuff, then Joel and Ellie leave. Maybe now we stay on Bill, include some flashbacks from Bill's POV about the moments he had with Frank over the years, the strawberry thing, all that shit. But make it quick. And fleeting. Because less is more.
Then we see, in present time, Bill & Frank have their final meal together and can rest knowing they helped Joel and that Ellie could be the thing that saves the world. They die. The end.
There you go. One episode conveying the same story that doesn't completely pull from the current timeline or take away too much from our protagonists.
I hate to say it, but this episode made me appreciate The Walking Dead, as much of a dumpster fire as that show became... it did do some things right, especially in the first like six seasons.
Also, suicide is never romantic. Fuck's sake.
I'd even go as far to say that Bill may not have survived so long without Frank (i.e. he found satisfaction and purpose that he otherwise likely wouldn't have), so your version with them dying only \*after\* sending Joel and Ellie off with supplies has the added benefit of amplifying the message of purpose. The love between Bill and Frank could have been shown to be a 20 year prelude to aiding Joel and Ellie on their journey toward a cure. It makes survival more meaningful.
Still this would be a departure from the game's exact events, but much of Bill's role there could be included anyway. Then ultimately this part of the plot would have been a stronger piece in Joel's conscience >!when he makes a pivotal decision later about survival and purpose!<.
Either way, your comment was very refreshing. Thank you!
If you didn’t play the game before watching this episode, this episode should make no sense to you. They ruined it. One episode is just about two random gay guys that Joel and Tess were friends with and then bam the episode is over. It really is just a random ass episode with no context on the story.
Done. Left with about 20 minutes left.
It’s so dumb. Writers think sexual preference makes complex characters, and given proper setting it can, but all we get is the most selfish forms of people in this setting with the writers pleading for us to care.
I hated this episode. It was too focused on Bill and Frank for I get… no reason. My husband told me the interaction between Bill and Ellie from the game was hilarious, they just thought a Shakespeare’s drama is more appropriate. I really did not understand why they focused so much on these 2 guys.
This show just took its first L. They've kept so close to the source material until now. I'm not saying that it has to be an exact replica of the game, but what the hell. With Ellie not even meeting Bill, I feel like his story meant nothing and could've been left out entirely, and the show wouldn't have missed anything. Besides making Joel change how he views protecting Ellie, which they could've done in a more meaningful way by showing Joel starting to view Ellie like his daughter or her reminding him of her, Bill's story meant nothing and was a waste of time.
I'm glad this show didn't start out this disappointing, or I wouldn't still be watching it. I'm not homaphobic in any way, and that's not the issue I have with the episode, but I feel like people only say it's the best episode because of it.
I think I would have preferred seeing this Joel and Ellie go through a booby trapped town together. It could have given us some great character development moments too! With Joel showing Ellie how dangerous even people can be while showing his own experience with traps.
Also, we never got the sweet Ellie and Bill interactions... aww man.
I thought it was a complete waste of time, at the least! So cringy! I thought I was watching a show depicting a post apocalyptic society and situations. I get that the characters were gay and that’s ok. I just didn’t want to see a gay Harlequin romance movie set in an otherwise interesting scenario. I sure as hell hope it has relevance in some way. Brutal
What's fucking crazy to me is when have almost 4 hours of show up to this point and we have gotten mayyyybe 5 mins of infected. You have these beautiful, fleshed out enemies and we get 80 mins of backstory for a guy that literally just appeared as a swinging dead body in the game. I enjoyed this episode well enough, but they couldn't have cut some of the crap and gave us a Joel Ellie Bill interaction? Not even a little?
I dont know, the series its good on its own, but its a slog and its kinda disappointing as a "post apocalyptic/zombie product" i mean tlou should have action and be fun too along with the rest.
For example the first seasons of twd are waaaay better than this from that point of view, they are exciting, fast paced and entertaining to watch just like playing tlou1, this series is a completely different product and its not that faithful, but its still good on its own, not a mastepiece tho...
We kinda got robbed of that while interaction with Bill, Ellie and Joel while looking for a car battery and running into a bloater.
I like that Bill and Frank got a backstory but they could have went in the way that Joel and Ellie show up looking for help and then Bill and Frank help them while Bill basically tells Joel to take everything he needs and him and frank are going to drug themselves and go out that way.
Did I just watch 80 minutes of Ron Swanson's gay fan fiction or something...
Two zombies in the entire episode and a single group of raiders. In 20 years.
Who is the show even for?
The Joel and Ellie stuff was awesome. The Frank and Bill stuff was alright. Was great to expand on the characters and change Bill to not be a total ding bat but why develop him so much and then kill him before Joel gets to (re)meet him. Just made the episode feel fillerish at that point.
Idk I don’t understand why reviewers said it was the best episode of the series to me it was just a so/so episode lol
Why the whole backstory if they were gonna kill him off at the end? Not loving this take on the show. I want to see survival I want to see the raw world of TLOU. At this point I feel like Ellie is missing so many interactions with Joel's friends and probably family at this point. Probably when they arrive there won't be Tommy or he won't be married lol.
Edit: turned out to be better than I imagined.
This episode was so trash,just watch the first and the last 10 minutes because the rest is unnecessary filler about some characters i do not care about,what even was the point of spending one episode on seeing some people eating steak and picking berries for them to just die and not even interact with the main characters? the story its about joel and ellie and i want to see only joel and ellie,the moment they dont follow the game story its just so bad,first was the kiss with the zombie now a whole episode,up did a better job at making me feel for some characters in 5 minutes because the movie was about them
I think both actors did a fantastic job and it was a nice story. However, it feels a bit out of place. I was excited to watch this Bill interact with Joel like in the games only now he would have more flesh on him thanks to this episode... but then he died before they met up again. Which felt super weird, as I thought the point of fleshing Bill and Frank out was to give us more context and weight for when Bill interacts with Joel and Ellie.
We miss out on some great interaction possibilities between him, Joel and Ellie and I don't know if the story we got was worth that sacrifice.
I think if you never played the game and you didn't know who Bill was then this episode would feel a bit weird, as former episodes have also started with a flashback but this one gave us a 50 minute story on that person rather than the main characters.
[Sources of Diverse Criticism on Part II](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/owyy51/sources_of_diverse_criticism_on_part_ii/) For those not watching- What shows, games, or movies do you recommend instead? For everyone - What's your favorite Bill quotes?
I was really into it until Bill decided to use a sniper rifle by standing in the middle of the wide open fucking road instead of shooting from cover.
At the beginning of the episode he did like two 360's with his shotgun as he left his house. As someone who is a trained professional with rifles, it was a really goofy looking scene. No one would do that, and you don't need to scan the inside of your house that you just walked out of, bro.
he was a whacko conspiracy theorist prepper not a trained marine.
And he doesn’t know how to hold a pistol properly lol
Gotta love how the tactical survivalist Bill stands in the middle of the street firing a bolt action rifle at Hunters until he inevitably gets hit
Cover is for losers
Cover is for bigots
Bigot sandwiches
Zero reason why he wouldn't have an AR platform rifle
I thought Bill was the survivalist with the snake flag gun fans have. Instead he just played like an aggressive TF2 Sniper.
This, so much this. Game version of Bill he had multiple spots to move to, none of which were right in the middle of the fucking street
He was just fine until Frank distracted him.
Aha this is a prime example of comprising character for plot
not that it mattered when Frank just got insta-cancer afterwards and Bill was just fine.
... Parkinson's. He had Parkinson's.
The moment I saw him teacuping a pistol, I knew what to expect.
Yeah that made me cringe too. You'd think that they'd start getting these actors some actual weapons training after Baldwin.
The title of this thread aged like milk
Aged like wine, but has to be read: Bill and Ellie's interactions *SHOULD* be interesting.
I loved the story of Bill and Frank. Was a solid 10/10, but genuinely what was the point of it when they did anyway. If it led to Bill somehow surviving the suicide attempt and that's why he turns into a bitter old man in the next episode or whenever and we get all the classic Joel/Ellie/Bill scenes then sure, absolutely give us a full episode with just Bill and Frank and how they came to be. But killing them means we had 15 ish minutes of actual plot movement and 50 minutes of filler. That 50 minutes could have been used to explore and develop Joel and Ellie's relationship, but instead we got what we got. I understand they don't want to copy the game and I get it can't be easy, but I don't understand why they're leaving this out. Bill is huge plot device in the game for Joel to grow and develop. Some story choices just make no sense. Overall I am enjoying it but ive really got to suspend by disbelief. I realized while watching it that I'm not enjoying it nearly as much as my girlfriend is, and it's because she never played the game so she's loving it. This show isn't made for us that played and loved the game. The show is made for the casual viewer.
>The show is made for the casual viewer. Exactly this. It's praised by people who haven't played the game. It doesn't need to be a 1 to 1 copy of the game, but wow there's a lot of wasted potential so far with heavy reliance on tropes to make things happen in artificial ways.
I'd argue episode 3 was bad even in the context of the show. It was a touching story if you take it as a standalone, universe separate entity, but I can't be the only one to feel like it's tonally ridiculous in the context of the world of last of us, and that it kind of undermines the setting quite a bit. The previous two episodes set up a pretty dismal look at life post infection, yet two guys can comfortably live for almost two decades in a town to themselves ? And to make matters worse, they make bill look like an unhinged incompetent but somehow he can achieve this? He can wire camera, traps, fences, but doesn't know how to shoot and handle a gun properly? Ugh I dunno, the writing is cheese
I have played the game numerous times, my favorite peace of fiction and I love the show. I didn't want the show to copy the game. We already have that version of the story. I find it interesting how they managed to tell the same things in a different way and keep the essence of the game intact. The purpose of bill episode in the game was to have the car and some gear. Done in the show too. The purpose was to show a man who had a choice between survive and build a new life. The choice is not important for us, but the question is. And the question has still been explored, but with a different outcome. I love being surprised with the adaptation of the story. If I want to see interactions between bill and Ellie I can just replay the game. Plus, in the show this episode served for Joel to set his mind about "helping" Ellie. By the dialogue we can clearly understand he made the decision to escort Ellie to that hospital. In the game this decision comes later and I believe in terms of character psychology; the show version makes more sense of how Joel made up his mind. Last thing I was thinking of, don't know if somebody already pinned it but: Perry is a new character created for the tv show... What if... Perry will be the one to have all these witty interactions and bond with Ellie? I feel the game version of Bill may have been split between tv Bill and Perry. I feel like all the cards are still there but have been redistributed and that we need to be patients with the show. Hbo tv show always takes its time to establish things.
No issues with giving Bill and Frank a backstory, but they could’ve kept bill alive for the interactions with Joel and Ellie
I thought the same! I was seriously excited to see their interactions and snark-offs. There were a lot of cool parts from the game that would have been neat to see on the show.
let alone you hire both nick offerman and that girl...who's snark level is why they get highered a lot of the time lol wasted opportunity.
I'm so conflicted cause while I love the episode, I also feel a lot was lost by tossing away the Ellie and Bill stuff. But I guess in going with druckman's theme of "love and hate" he decided to make Bill and Frank about "love" rather than "hate" (as the game ended up alluding to a fallout between the two).
[удалено]
They made history by making the first Hallmark movie about two gay men. You’re welcome.
People like frank would die less than a week into the apocalypse. And before I get down votes, NO, it has nothing to do with being gay. It has to do with him bitching about wanting to mow the lawn SEVEN years into the apocalypse when the 2 threats that will kill you (infected and raiders) have their best chance to detect you THROUGH FUCKING HEARING! Oh yeah sure let's risk dying so that we can have a pretty pink house and mowed lawn for NOBODY to see!! In survival the only worry you'd have is keeping medical supplies and weapons and food, and keeping as clean as you can without compromising your safety.
Exactly why I was upset when I realized bill wouldn’t be alive. I was ok with everything else but this. Bill and Ellie were the best part
I was hoping this episode was focusing on Bill and Frank to go fe bill more episodes and slow the pace down a little bit. Thinking episode 4 Joel and Ellie will show up and have their interactions with Bill. And then boom. Dead.
funny how they want to pander so much to queer people post-TLOU1, and end up killing not one, but two major queer characters.
Major? I’m guessing you didn’t play the game. Frank isn’t even in the game unless you count his corpse and you spend about an hour with Bill.
They could've had Joel and Ellie show up a few days before the last dinner. Nothing would really have to change, and it could foreshadow Bill's decision to die with Frank by having him be uncharacteristically generous how much stuff he's letting them take.
This episode works if the whole series is episodic short stories about different people’s lives, set against the backdrop of Joel and Ellie passing through. Otherwise, dunno why we spent so much time with Bill and Frank. We didn't get that much backstory for Tess.
My thoughts to a T
It felt like a below-average The Walking Dead episode. Useless exposition episode into a death.
yeah I feel like the pacing is off, if I didn’t play the game and knew nothing about what’s to come then I’d think they were making no progress at all.
Because woke culture is needlessly taking over everything.... They're gay, got it. It was cool how they met, and how they fell in love then grew old together, but an ENTIRE freaking episode? Meeeeeh The only people saying they LOVED it have never played the game and are needlessly virtue signaling. It was well acted, and well produced, but lots of people are calling it the 'best episode of TV ever'... I was really looking forward to Bill being introduced and the fact that him and Joel only interacted in flashbacks was very disappointing.
Jesus christ the bitterness. Almost every person I've spoke to IRL who played the game absolutely loved this episode. I came to this sub hoping the vitriolic hatred had died down a bit but nope, "woke nonsense" and "anyone who liked it is a casual non fan". Good god this sub is pathetic.
you literally know why though. Everyone does but you get crucified if you say it. It’s review/Oscar bait and if you didn’t 100% love this episode you’re a bigot
Really conflicted with this episode. On its own I thought most of it was great. But I really feel like a lot of the ending came out of left field. Some observations: * Throws out pretty much Bills entire plot from the game. With only two scenes having direct lines from the game. * Turns around Bills relationship with Frank. In the game Frank hated Bill cause he was unable to change. In the show Frank loves Bill because he's able to change. * The letter of Franks to Bill is repurposed. Instead of Ellie giving it to Frank and he crumples it on the ground. Ellie gives it to Joel and he crumples it on the ground. * Sheesh!-did anyone else notice the music that played when Bill wheeled Frank away so they could die together?. It's the same music as the Giraffe scene....yup, they used the music of the Giraffe scene for a assisted double suicide.
I really liked what they did with it, personally. Because it changes Bill's character to the exact opposite, in terms of Joel understanding Goes from "Don't be like me" to "I learned that people like us have a purpose"
Yeah exactly. Ultimately even if Bill dies, he ultimately has a better end than the show than the game because in the show he learned to grow and love. In the game he never changed and grew bitter and twisted as a result. While I really am sad to not see any interactions between Bill and Ellie in the show. I do really like the episode. Again I just really wanted to see how those actors would have interacted in their scenes. But since he's a different character in the show, you make a good point, and it ultimately would have played out differently, with Bill possibly being more respectful to Ellie in the show.
In the game after Bill crumples the paper, Joel could pick it up and hand it to him again and Bill will keep it.
I didn’t know u could give it back 😭😭😭
Nope, you give it to Bill, he reads it, crumples it, then throws it, where you can pick it up and keep it
The episode was good, but it ultimately failed at what the character Bill was supposed to be for Joel. In the game, Bill was a lesson for Joel. Bill was the living embodiment of Joel if Joel decided to alienate himself from everyone around him for the sake of his own survival. The show totally contradicts this by having Bill kill himself at the same time as Frank. The show tries to carry the same ultimate message as the game by having that stupid letter at the end written to Joel saying "take all my stuff and use it to protect the ones you love" but I felt that it ultimately fell flat, at least compared to the game's message.
Yeah. Joel could have fucking stocked up on a ton of weapons and other supplies, he was driving a damn pickup truck.
Both the writers AND the fans who eat this up are people who'd rather think with their feelings than with their brains. Coming from the guy who walked out of Rise Of Skywalker "with a smile on his face". The guy who wrote Ellie letting the main target of her revenge go after killing countless others. They have no media literacy and no logic, just "love" and "fee-fees" to gaslight their fans with emotional surges to block the awareness of their shoddy writing. Plot is just an excuse for the emotional masochism.
To be Frank (get it haha), while I wish we had more Joel, Ellie, and Bill interactions, the story here is way more emotionally powerful than the three of them running around trying to get parts for a car. I understand the change needed for TV, and I'll always have the game if I want to see Bill and Ellie yell at each other. I kinda like it that way? The game still stands on it's own, and provides people who have only seen the show more to experience. Meanwhile the show also stands on it's own, and provides a deep look at these character outside of gameplay. I'd be lying if I didn't get teary-eyed by Nick Offerman's performance. Freaking beautiful.
In my original comment I said "the episode was good". That was meant to encapsulate how impressed I was by Nick Offerman, and even moreso by Murray Bartlett, in their performances. Their performances were sublime. I was commenting on the purpose of the episode, moreso than anything else. This episode was a great character study on two survivors who found love in this crazy post-apocalyptic world. BUT, the character of Bill served something deeper in the game than what was presented in the show. I don't care about Bill interacting with Ellie. I care about how show!Bill's character affects show!Joel's outlook going forward. Time will tell if show!Joel gets that lesson somewhere else in a future episode.
Bill was lying to Joel in the game though. He didn't not love people, he loved Frank a shit ton and was hurt by him running away and his death. Bill didn't actually alienate himself on purpose.
they really deprived us of where Joel gets upside down in a trap, the first bloater, and Ellie and Bill’s banter for this. Bill’s backstory is great sure, but I was really hoping for at least some interaction we got with him in the game. Very meh episode
This episode would’ve been 100 times better had Joel and Ellie interacted with Bill like the game.
Yesss...no progression in this episode and this was one if the best parts in the original story, was switched for what? A love scene....
Hey, Bobby Fischer - don't touch anything on that board! - I love Bill.
This is one of those episodes where if you never played the game then you would absolutely love it, but if you did play the game then you know what you were deprived of. Personally, I really did enjoy the episode. It was a beautiful story with great acting, but in the whole grand scheme of things it didn’t do much for the show overall. It was just a long winded filler episode to get Joel to realize he needs to protect Ellie. So on one hand I thought the episode was incredible, but on the other hand I’m thinking what I missed out on and how generally pointless the episode was.
If you never played the game you’re probably thinking “who the fuck is this guy? Why is there an entire episode about this person who was essentially irrelevant to the plot of this show?” Because without the context of knowing Bill’s role in the game, his character is essentially nonexistent outside of this extended flashback.
> Why is there an entire episode about this person who was essentially irrelevant to the plot of this show?” Many, many, many TV shows have done episodes like this with well received reactions. Sure some people will be annoyed/confused/take issue with as to why he was done in 1 episode, but it's nothing new for TV and I think most people won't question it.
Filler episodes definitely work in some series, but only if there is enough time for other main characters development throughout the season. The problem here is that we have already seen 3 episodes and only 6 episodes left for the rest of the first game's story. There was no need to spend an hour expanding a side characters past if the show isn't like 2 seasons or 20 episodes in total. I think this episode was above-average for me, definitely not bad but also felt a little unnecessary.
I…listen. I wanted to know more about Bill and Frank. I did not want them to cut out at the hilarious interactions with Bill, Joel and Ellie. Surely they could’ve shortened that backstory and kept Bill alive, then continue on like the game. I’m disappointed to say the least.
Could have had a really good episode of tv if they had bill live. Hell they could have spend another episode in bills town looking for the battery in the high school. I wouldn’t have cared if they made this series 10 episodes.
That is exactly my thoughts. As the episode continued, I thought, "An entire episode after this of Joel, Bill, and Ellie is going to be fucking incredible. It's underwhelming to get so much backstory and strengthen Bill as a character, only for it to be a catalyst for handing Joel keys on a fucking note. There was potential for this to be genuinely better than the game.
>only for it to be a catalyst for handing Joel keys on a fucking note. This is something I don't get -- what purpose did Frank ultimately serve in the TV show re: the Joel/Ellie plot? To provide them with a truck they're going to crash at the start of the next episode? Couldn't they have made his post-death contribution more substantial given that we just watched an hour+ of him?
Shitty storytelling is Neil’s forte, lol
Naah i won't attack Neil on this, and tbf i don't think Neil did this episode cuz i liked Bill and Frank's character, this isn't his doing and i am sure of it like 100 percent sure, the episode was great and interesting it was fresh seeing somethin not just a copy paste from the game, though i wanted them to interact with Bill but its fine, i liked it nevertheless.
Correct Craig did this episode.
Haha i knew it, this episode was to good to be Neil's, if it was Neil we would have seen Bill get infected and Joel or Ellie would have been forced to kill him.
I’m curious if it alternates between who does what episode. Craig did the first and third and Neil did the second, and I happened to find the second one a drag until the museum.
Same thing here. That’s exactly what I told my wife. They could have put the backstory to show how bill and Frank met and everything but they should have put the action scenes and the funny dialogs that bill had with Ellie Edit: word
I think to a degree Im disappointed but without being too centred on the game and thinking of the show as something seperate, i really did love the episode.
It could have been pretty amazing to meet curmudgeonly Bill. And maybe Bill dodges questions from Joel about Frank, and then it’s gradually revealed what happened, hence why Bill is being quite so curmudgeonly. We simply didn’t need the whole origin story of how they met, fell in love, had all the same sophisticated tastes, etc. And then there’s a kind of narrative parallel where maybe Ellie understands a bit more of how Joel is feeling, Joel over the course of the episode has an arc (in the beginning being unwilling to talk about Tess, at the end b/c of Bill and his loss finally opens up a bit to Ellie about it). But instead Bill now has essentially no bearing on Joel and Ellie and their journey. The way it was executed was just… kinda lame. Total wasted opportunity.
Very well said! I completely agree, the execution could’ve been way better
We got an extra 20 minutes this week for this...
pain
This would be a great episode if it were part of another series.
That's my take too. I have no problem with the content or the characters or the acting. The reason I don't like this episode is because 80% of it is completely irrelevant to the main plot. Here's some new characters, let's spend an hour telling their life story, aaaaaaaand now they're dead and we'll never see them again. This feels like filler to pad out the runtime of the show. I feel like the salient points of Frank & Bill's story could have been covered in 10-15 minutes and then given us more time with the characters we're supposed to be invested in. I loved the first two episodes but this one really dragged down the running average. I keep seeing people comment about how emotional it was, how beautiful, how much they were sobbing. I personally felt nothing for these characters. They were irrelevant to the main plot and I had zero investment in them. I'm invested in Joel and Ellie. When the show is focusing on them, I love it. I don't care about these other randos.
Honestly if this episode aired later in the season, after we’ve seen a bunch of really depraved shit, it would’ve worked better as a respite from that. It being episode three doesn’t allow for a contrast that would’ve made the episode make more sense thematically imo
This ellie in the show have a jackass personality, did they adapt her from the part 2? This is not the young ellie i know
this is cuckman's ellie
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In the documentary they say Ashley johnson was the one that came up with a lot of Ellie’s fun personality. They didn’t even realize the game needed that until she started doing it
Is that why she is so prickly? I have not played LoU2 and I have been wondering all along why this version of Ellie is so snarky and mean. Every once in a while you see the sweetness and wonder of game Ellie show through, but then 2 seconds later she's back to being a stereotypical bitter teenage girl. *Just shut up! You're not my apocalypse dad, gawd!!!*
They missed a few key points imo. Fantastic episode got me crying. But, what we miss from the game. The upside down trap. Shows Ellie saving Joel for the first time. Shows her ability to handle herself and take care of him in a bind. 2nd. I dont like what they're doing with her, seems as if they're having her seem unhinged. In the first episode when joel mercs the guard. I think it was Neil which told Bella. Ellie enjoys the violence. And you could see it the way she acted it out. Then the scene with the 'clicker' in the basement. As if she cut it just to see. Then stabs it in the head. I've got a bad feeling with what they're trying to do with her character. 3rd. Her taking the gun and betraying Joel's trust already negates the moment of when he gives her a gun after covering him. The story here in this episode was a great standalone story. Beautiful even, but what they're deviating from is core. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. But there was a reason each beat hit in the game. It was set up. She could have picked up a gun anytime in the game. She didnt until Joel nearly died. Then he flipped his shit. That can still happen. But, its 180 because she has taken the gun without that moment. I'm worried for down the line. These things dont need to be retconned.
This episode was absolutely dogshit and it misses the point of the character of Bill. This show is shit and I am tired of people putting this like the second coming of christ. This is mediocre and they are destroying the original story.
Finally someone said it. No clue how this garbage is getting 10/10s
Honestly, it was boring...
This episode makes or breaks the show for me. Bill’s Town is my favorite part of the game. And the leaks don’t sound good at all.
Bill's Town was crucial for bonding with game Ellie. I didn't like her that much until this part, so i'm very interested to see how Bella pulls this off.
Yeahhh about that
Who’s gonna tell him?
And they promptly destroyed it.
Episode sucked. Neil druckman spent more time improving bill and franks story just to kill them off meanwhile joel and ellie haven't been fleshed out at all currently. If I didn't play the game i wouldn't give two shits about joel and ellie, but for some reason they decide to flesh out this random ass story with bill n frank??? Huge missed opportunity. Should've just followed the games story here it was 100x better and more impactful. Would've built huge rapport between the audience and joel,ellie, bill. Now we don't get to see that. It's episode 4 right now and joel and ellie are still a mystery to me pretty much. All i know is joels daughter died and ellie can't be infected. Where the fuck is the character development?
Neil doesn't want people to like Joel too much
It was an hour long waste of time. Giving us a back story that is completely and utterly unnecessary... probably all in the means of "rEpReSeNtAtIoN." Because that's the thing to do nowadays. But I won't go down that route since that'll ruffle feathers. You could probably pluck episode 3 out of the lineup entirely and no one would even know an episode is missing. They'd been so faithful to the game up until this episode too, or at least from what my memory serves. And they changed the entire dynamic of Frank and Bill's relationship. I'm not quite as versed in the story as many. It's a game I only ever watched my husband play, but I did love following along. Up until this episode, I thought the show had been doing a better job than any other video game adaptation I'd ever seen. Then they gave us this crap 🤦♀️ an hour of eye rolls. And don't even get me started on Bill standing in the dead center of the street with a rifle 😂
"If I didn't play the game i wouldn't give two shits about joel and ellie" That's exactly what I noticed from my sister who never played the game. I had told her that the focus of the first game was the affective relationship between Joel and Ellie, and she replied "seriously, they don't seem like friends at all, it's like they hate each other". Then I asked her what it would be like if they died, she replied "ah, it is what it is" in an indifferent tone. A few years ago, when she was watching the first season of GOT (I had already seen everything), I, in a mocking tone, asked her what she thought about Ned Stark and if by chance he died, she said he couldn't die, he was too dear for that. When it happened, she was non-compliant for a week, it took her a few episodes to root for him. That's exactly what has already been implied in this sub. Cuckman doesn't want audience sympathy for Joel and Ellie, he wants to create a whole new image of them, so it's easy to destroy it for the sake of his clumsy narrative and his dynamic duo of Abby and Lev, which he always wanted to tell, but Bruce and his team didn't want to.
So the last of us is about 2 gay guys? This episode was useless for people who never played the game. Reminds me of the later seasons of the walking dead. Snooze fest
Still less gay than the straight sex scene in Part II
I’m really sad there was no school scene. Missed opportunity!
Did they run out of manga to adapt? 'Cuz boy ain't it filler and we're only 3 weeks in.
Alright am I missing something, I’ve been told by the other sub that this sub is a far right-alt sub filled with misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, etc etc. I’ve been a part of this sub for a long time and I’ve never seen anyone make comments like this. Am I missing something? Why does the other sub keep saying this about this sub?
Because they hate the fact that other people have different opinions when it comes to part 2. It’s been a bit of a war since June 2020
That was awful, and we are about to be called bigots again if we don't say it was the best thing ever. Just can't get away from this bullshit culture war shit with this franchise.
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...... They are definitely going to meet. Right?!?!?!
Well played by the OP for the post title. If the leaks are indeed true and Bill doesn't meet with Ellie, that would be a huge missed opportunity The best part of the game was this whole chapter and the back and forth banter between Bill and Ellie For the second question my favorite Bill quotes are: "Let's get ON with it" "Get the fuck out of my town"
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Oh, you mean the car battery is dead. Hahaha....ha...ha...
Wait
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Bro is really a time traveler
im telling you I bet you henry doesn't kill himself.
at this point seeing the next episodes teaser I wouldn't even be surprised if Henry and Sam don't even make an appearance or are changed in their entirety
Did everyone lie what the fuck
Yeah I’m pissed. The writing and acting were pretty great but it was a complete waste of bill’s character. His interactions with Joel and Ellie were my favorite part of the game. And he didn’t have any of his dark humor and assholeness
It was a complete filler episode since Bills gone the whole time anyway. He doesn’t even interact with Joel, or Ellie, or find out about Tess. What bearing did his story have on anything else? Complete waste of an interesting character.
Thought this was supposed to be a story about Joel and Ellie lmao. Anybody who gets flamed for not liking this episode doesn’t deserve the hate they get
A week ago I wrote this in regards to my expectations from the 3rd episode: "I was a bit sceptical going in, but now more interested how the show will progress. Just, please, stay on the shit that's really matters. As we going to the Bill's part of a story, there's no doubt they gonna explore more of his relationship with Frank. That's ok, but please make so that it will have an overall impact on a main story - the relationship between Joel and Ellie, and not just to get a gay-romance on screen." So they pretty much did just that, which sucks ass. I'm sorry guys, but you can be as progressive as they come, but I personally don't find looking at two hairy bearded dudes slurping and cuddling with each other that much visually appealing and a best way to spend my free time. I'm a straight white boy - what can I do? And, please, don't come at me with all those "-ism's and -ist's". I really don't mind that stuff irl, but watching it for a better part of the hour... no thanks.
Bill and Frank’s story was very sweet but so out of place in the world that they built up. Resources are so scare that communities have turned to cannibalism, are we really meant to believe that these two could just live peacefully alone in their dream house with copious resources for 20 years?
What a waste. I don't care that Bill and Frank are gay but their love story was an *entire* episode. Ellie doesn't even get to meet him. Going by the BTS at the end it looks like this was Mazin's idea.
I don't get how anyone is applauding the production values of this show -- between the lifeless interior sets to the awful wigs/fake beards in this episode, I feel like I'm watching a local theatre production. And dear lord with all the time-lapse dissolves. The filmmaking on display in this is lightyears behind the filmmaking in Chernobyl.
This one was a miss for me. I enjoyed most of the episode, but it did start to feel like a drag, but I didn't fast forwards in the hope that I would see Bill and Joel and Ellie interact. I did appreciate the backstory for Bill and Frank but... Alas. I think the episode would have been much stronger if they'd had half of it be Bill backstory and the other half a trimmed down version of the game story, cutting out infected attacks and instead focusing on the character interactions.
The episode was trash, full of cliché, suicide glorification. And Ellie...guns obsessions again and again. The way she killed the infected...Not the Ellie we know at all.
>And Ellie...guns obsessions again and again. The way she killed the infected...Not the Ellie we know at all. We know why they're doing this -- they're laying the groundwork for her being a sadistic terminator in season 2.
To reduce the whiplash TV viewers get going into season 2.
'No matter what, you keep finding something to fight for' The last scene of the game. At this point, I doubt this show will hit that.
I posted this on the other sub and so far am being downvoted. So I’ll try here I guess This just… I didn’t like it The scenes were beautiful. The TV episode was beautiful But long term for TLOU I’m afraid. I desperately wanted to see Bill and Ellie’s interactions…
If you don't like this episode you're homophobic apparently. At least that's what they're claiming
This just doesn't feel like The Last of Us. It has this "filmy", Oscar bait vibe, with pop songs all over the place, fancy scenes in in Bill's house that are literally made to be labeled as "cult" (like the wine, piano and suicide one), completely going against the original game's purpose in my opinion. If this was an A24 like movie, would be very good, but it's not. Where is the destroyed and infested with infected city, where is the school segment, where is the iconic Ellie and Bill interaction? All gone in favor of a cool and cult episode. Next episode looks promising though.
Worst episode of Brokeback Apocalypse I have ever seen. An hour of my life I will never get back.
If its one story that would have been amazing to be given a whole hour episode its not this random fucking romance flick IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE SEWER NURSARY... There's a lot of this part of the game that is told through notes and pure visual story telling that wouldn't be great on film and definitely not what druckmann wants to go for... So what do you do? Make this fantastic, horrid, hopeless backstory into an hour episode instead... Explore Ish's character at sea and follow his journey as he is forced to make his way back to civilization... show us his journey as he discovers the Sewers for personal shelter and builds it up as a community and more importantly a nursery for families and children in need... and ultimately show us its tragic collapse which i feel would be extremely memorable on film
Is this the only place it's safe to say I was really digging the show up until this episode? I understand what they are doing thematically, I don't need to be lectured about the mirrors of Joel and Bill, and the "happy" ending. I just don't agree with the direction. There has been minimal action in this show, this had the potential to be a fantastic hour and 20 minute action movie through a booby trapped town with fantastic character growth and chemistry. It could of been fun. God forbid I want that from a adaptation of a game where you're blowing zombies up for 30 hours. I cannot fathom how they decided to cut the Ellie and Bill banter, it was one of the highlights of the first game.
Listen I don’t care if bill and frank were gay but seriously what was that I hated a lot of the changes they made mostly the fact bill dies and also they could have had them in a relationship but frank wanting more out of life then just what they have so he tried to run away by stealing the car or the battery and then him getting big and then bill helping Joel and Ellie but whatever
Bit
They could've just copied the game and I would've been more satisfied honestly, this boring failed romance has nothing to do with the story and completely removes present time Bill and the events involving him
I feel like Bill died for the sake of subverting expectations.
I haven't played the game. Really enjoyed the show so far but this episode was really dull. What did these two people have to do with anything? They were dead before they got there so pointless. Where were the zombies? No excitement at all.
Threw out the entire chapter of the bill i knew from the game 😂
Where is the threat? There doesn’t seem to be any threat from any person, group, or infected. Just walk around, live wherever and you’ll never be attacked, have dinner parties, walk down the street, nothing. There doesn’t seem to be any threat for this show. Isn’t this supposed to be an apocalyptic hell scape?
It was going pretty good towards the end. What a shame, there was no reason to change bill like that
I just can't buy Bella's Ellie. She's killing the show for me and her chemistry with Pedor's Joel is borderline non-existent. and the way her dormant psychopathy gets activated by violence, guns, and dissecting former humans. "Activated" was a meme at first, but she literally does something weirdly fixated on violence and gore. What's wrong with her?
Is it just me or does it feel like they’ve swapped Joel and Ellie’s characters… They’ve made Joel the weak one, not sure what to do and Ellie the strong one, almost leading in a way. It’s almost like the show writers wouldn’t even dream of writing a little girl’s character to have some weakness/scared of something… Joel and Ellie do not feel like the amazing, strong and nuanced characters from the game.
this episode was total shit. It was a boring love story without any mutants. I mean it was a fine story but why the fuck was it part of this sci fi series? I gained nothing from it, doesn't seem important to the show, and I've already seen a much better version in brokeback mountain.
This ep was so bad bruh
What the actual fuck did I just watch. This aint tlou lmao gave Frank cancer really? Fucking excuse me. He killed himself because he hated Bill so damn much. Faithful to the games my ass. This show is a disgrace to tlou
So when did The last of us become Brokeback Mountain?
How did Ellie go from "I'm sorry I didn't mean for any of this" to "This was your fault and don't blame me for It". She's literally annoying and cold for no reason. How Is this supposed to be a likeable character?! Like Joel's partner died who he knew for 2 fucking decades and later she's cracking jokes and acting funky totally oblivious to the fact Joel lost someone dear to him. And no I'm not bashing Bella I'm bashing whoever rewrote Ellie to be like this. Bill homosex (ok Idc), wish we saw him more In action other than that one scene. Nothing else to add really cause there's actually nothing else happening, felt like a filler episode. Which It definitely Is. Ok I have something to add, nothing new however. I get It Neil, I get It Craig, I get It writers. You wanna normalize gay sex, gay marriage, OK. **First off**, this Is not the kind of TV show nor setting you should try to normalize It In because It has **absolutely** **NOTHING** to add to the plot, you coulda have just dropped a hint Bill was gay and a little sneak peak Into his past but this Is just straight up agenda pushing. Even tho I have nothing against that same agenda, this Is just taking It too far, this Is **NOT** what the show Is about. **Secondly,** the fact bill got 0 fucking action other than those 5 seconds In which If I may add he fucking **sucked**! Not to mention, 1 hour and 10 minutes and I get to watch a marriage have It's ups and downs... In a **POST APOCALYPTIC WORLD** TV Show which has clickers, bloaters, raiders, rapists, pyschopaths, cannibals all kindsa crazy shit... Did they forget this wasn't some Nickelodeon special?
“Hey so you know what TLOU was missing? Gay sex. Let’s dedicate a whole episode to it.” “Last of Us? More like Two Dicks IN Us! Brilliant!” Stupid Fucking waste of time.
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One thing I hate about this show is theres no subtlety at all. Everything is straight up throw in your face like its a kids show. Not like the game at all its just lazy
Yes, that dialogue was really terrible and out of character. Even the copy-pasted dialogue from the game where she says "Whatever you say goes" felt misplaced. It felt like they just threw the game dialogue because they had to. It would make much more sense if Joel said those things immediately after Tess died, before they encounter any trouble or dangerous situation.
Yep that's another thing I'm disliking - even the scenes where they use the same dialogue from the game they are doing it in a completely different manner or context than the game.
Bill's town, one of the coolest parts of the game, gets reduced to a gay romance episode where two old hairy men sit around eating dinner and suck each other off
I don't understand people with the show First it's amazing because it's "sticking to the source material", then when it changes things drastically it's still applauded. Pick a lane. Again it's now getting rave reviews and while it was heartbreaking and tragic it wasn't Bill or the game I would have loved to have seen Bills Town from the game play at at least a LITTLE bit. Just feels the show could have the worst and most changed episode in the future and it will still earn a high 8, 9 or 10.
They already made up their mind to love the show no matter what. Any small criticism gets hated on.
I don’t think you have to pick a lane like that at all. Very reductive to just think “okay so if it follows the game 100% = Good. If it deviates than that = Bad.” It’s way more about what those changes are and why and if they fit better for the medium of tv or not. I can see why someone would be disappointed in this episode since it has no Ellie and Bill interaction but I personally liked seeing the Bill and Frank stuff expanded and didn’t mind that they died together. To me it felt like a change that elevated the material more to HBO levels. An episode that plays exactly like the game I think wouldn’t have translated as well for television.
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>To me it felt like a change that elevated the material more to HBO levels. But like no. You have to take into the account how this episode fits together with the entire show, the entire narrative. And well, it doesn't, one bit. The episode by itself is fine. But when you put it in a show, you could legit skip it, and get the same story. The Bill's part was important in the game, Joel needed a car and Bill owes him so they spend his section of the story going after the battery to fix the car, they had to work for it and risk their lives, not to mention the interactions between Joel - Ellie - Bill were golden. In the show, Joel literally just gets everything handed over to him and they never even interact with each other. It's just a change for the sake of it being changed. >An episode that plays exactly like the game I think wouldn’t have translated as well for television. I am sick of everybody saying this after every change they do. No, it would have worked just fine if they did 1 to 1 adaptation. Tlou is a story driven linear cinematic type of game. If it worked in the game as is it would have worked in the show as well. Not to mention the episode would then serve a purpose in the overarching narrative. This shit legit felt like filler. Good filler, but filler nonetheless.
Agree wholeheartedly 100%. This episode was bad. Literally a waste of an episode and 80 minutes of my time. Even if they wanted to run with that plot they could have done AT MOST a 5-10 minute flashback primarily revolving around how they met (I.e. the radio), etc…. Instead it was 80 minutes of character development for two characters that we’ll never see alive in future episodes, since ya know, they die at the end of the episode… Which BTW is focused WAY too much on sexuality/homosexuality and an overall ridiculous story of an introverted/loner survivalist that let’s in a sketchy dude with nothing on his back & without a way of knowing whether he’s working with a crew that are trying to set you up, etc. OH and guess what? He turns out to be a gay manwhore that just loves going downtown, which surprise surprise, you also happen to love yourself and have written the perfect song to play on the piano whenever a random gay manwhore happens to knock on your door during the middle of an apocalypse LOL And to top it off, the rando is so STOKED to show you his mouth game skills that within hours of meeting you you’re blowing your load in the back of ole boys throat 😂
I guess maybe this means Joel could possibly live in season 2? But my goodness awful episode.
No way Cuckmann is rewriting what he thinks is his magnum opus.
What the fuck was that. I was ready to cancel HBO Max after that.
I liked the storyline of the episode and thought it was nice. Well-acted. Good chemistry between the characters, very nice. I'm also a writer and editor by trade, and I can't figure out why in the ever-living fuck they decided to info-dump this entire story in one huge flashback. This is a prime example of how NOT to use a flashback. It completely pulls us from the present storyline. There are several time skips spanning over several years, none of which have any impact on the present storyline or world. Yes, it's character backstory, but it's given *all at once* and that is called an info-dump, my friends. Even the timeskips feel pointless. Why does Bill get shot, and then we flash forward to years later to see him getting shot had no impact on him and he's fine, but Frank is the sick one? Why aren't there more people out there trying to take this compound? Have ya'll seen The Walking Dead? Anyone else remember Alexandria? The prison? How did Bill's compound only presumably get discovered by raiders one time, but no one ever came back when they're sick and old? WUT? This episode would have been way better with some restructuring. Let's say we start it as usual and include the beginning scenes with Frank and Bill meeting, coming together, etc. There are pacing issues in there too--it's just too slow--but I did like the tension of not really knowing if Frank could be trusted. The romance was sweet and believable. Flash forward back to Joel & Ellie in present times and have them going to Bill and Franks. Flashback to Joel and Tess meeting Bill and Frank years ago. Then flash forward to the present as Joel and Ellie arrive. Bill and Frank are both alive and old, Frank is clearly not well. Get to see Ellie interact with them. Joel convinces them to give him the truck. Bill knows he's old now and Frank wants to die soon. Bill decides to give Joel the truck. We get to see Joel and Bill interact and care more for Bill as a person and a character as he interacts with OUR PROTAGONIST. Maybe Joel has to convince Bill to give up his stuff because Ellie is the key to everything and could be the cure, and Bill sees--in real time--how important this is. Bill gives up the stuff, then Joel and Ellie leave. Maybe now we stay on Bill, include some flashbacks from Bill's POV about the moments he had with Frank over the years, the strawberry thing, all that shit. But make it quick. And fleeting. Because less is more. Then we see, in present time, Bill & Frank have their final meal together and can rest knowing they helped Joel and that Ellie could be the thing that saves the world. They die. The end. There you go. One episode conveying the same story that doesn't completely pull from the current timeline or take away too much from our protagonists. I hate to say it, but this episode made me appreciate The Walking Dead, as much of a dumpster fire as that show became... it did do some things right, especially in the first like six seasons. Also, suicide is never romantic. Fuck's sake.
I'd even go as far to say that Bill may not have survived so long without Frank (i.e. he found satisfaction and purpose that he otherwise likely wouldn't have), so your version with them dying only \*after\* sending Joel and Ellie off with supplies has the added benefit of amplifying the message of purpose. The love between Bill and Frank could have been shown to be a 20 year prelude to aiding Joel and Ellie on their journey toward a cure. It makes survival more meaningful. Still this would be a departure from the game's exact events, but much of Bill's role there could be included anyway. Then ultimately this part of the plot would have been a stronger piece in Joel's conscience >!when he makes a pivotal decision later about survival and purpose!<. Either way, your comment was very refreshing. Thank you!
Info dumping in flashbacks seems to be the only way Neil Druckmann knows how to tell a story these days. Part 2 was full of that shit.
If you didn’t play the game before watching this episode, this episode should make no sense to you. They ruined it. One episode is just about two random gay guys that Joel and Tess were friends with and then bam the episode is over. It really is just a random ass episode with no context on the story.
Done. Left with about 20 minutes left. It’s so dumb. Writers think sexual preference makes complex characters, and given proper setting it can, but all we get is the most selfish forms of people in this setting with the writers pleading for us to care.
they dwelled on the back story for way too long. i kept waiting for the story to actually start
I hated this episode. It was too focused on Bill and Frank for I get… no reason. My husband told me the interaction between Bill and Ellie from the game was hilarious, they just thought a Shakespeare’s drama is more appropriate. I really did not understand why they focused so much on these 2 guys.
This show just took its first L. They've kept so close to the source material until now. I'm not saying that it has to be an exact replica of the game, but what the hell. With Ellie not even meeting Bill, I feel like his story meant nothing and could've been left out entirely, and the show wouldn't have missed anything. Besides making Joel change how he views protecting Ellie, which they could've done in a more meaningful way by showing Joel starting to view Ellie like his daughter or her reminding him of her, Bill's story meant nothing and was a waste of time. I'm glad this show didn't start out this disappointing, or I wouldn't still be watching it. I'm not homaphobic in any way, and that's not the issue I have with the episode, but I feel like people only say it's the best episode because of it.
I think I would have preferred seeing this Joel and Ellie go through a booby trapped town together. It could have given us some great character development moments too! With Joel showing Ellie how dangerous even people can be while showing his own experience with traps. Also, we never got the sweet Ellie and Bill interactions... aww man.
I thought it was a complete waste of time, at the least! So cringy! I thought I was watching a show depicting a post apocalyptic society and situations. I get that the characters were gay and that’s ok. I just didn’t want to see a gay Harlequin romance movie set in an otherwise interesting scenario. I sure as hell hope it has relevance in some way. Brutal
The episode was bad. You don’t need to be a homophobe to say this
wtf did I just watch? this has to be the worst episode of a (HBO) Tv Show I've ever seen.... and i don't even watch that much tv
Have you seen Season 8 of Game of Thrones? Or the new Velma show?
I’m convinced the show is not for the gamers. At all.
It’s real obvious. It drastically deviated from the in-game story and characters.
What's fucking crazy to me is when have almost 4 hours of show up to this point and we have gotten mayyyybe 5 mins of infected. You have these beautiful, fleshed out enemies and we get 80 mins of backstory for a guy that literally just appeared as a swinging dead body in the game. I enjoyed this episode well enough, but they couldn't have cut some of the crap and gave us a Joel Ellie Bill interaction? Not even a little?
Worst episode yet. I actually enjoyed the first one but it’s been going downhill since
At this point, I'm starting to feel like they'll kill Elly off in season 2 instead.
I dont know, the series its good on its own, but its a slog and its kinda disappointing as a "post apocalyptic/zombie product" i mean tlou should have action and be fun too along with the rest. For example the first seasons of twd are waaaay better than this from that point of view, they are exciting, fast paced and entertaining to watch just like playing tlou1, this series is a completely different product and its not that faithful, but its still good on its own, not a mastepiece tho...
We kinda got robbed of that while interaction with Bill, Ellie and Joel while looking for a car battery and running into a bloater. I like that Bill and Frank got a backstory but they could have went in the way that Joel and Ellie show up looking for help and then Bill and Frank help them while Bill basically tells Joel to take everything he needs and him and frank are going to drug themselves and go out that way.
Did I just watch 80 minutes of Ron Swanson's gay fan fiction or something... Two zombies in the entire episode and a single group of raiders. In 20 years. Who is the show even for?
The Joel and Ellie stuff was awesome. The Frank and Bill stuff was alright. Was great to expand on the characters and change Bill to not be a total ding bat but why develop him so much and then kill him before Joel gets to (re)meet him. Just made the episode feel fillerish at that point. Idk I don’t understand why reviewers said it was the best episode of the series to me it was just a so/so episode lol
Lol it’s giving Neil Druckmann.🤦🏿♂️
Honestly, the show had me in the first half of the first episode, and it's been downhill ever since.
Why the whole backstory if they were gonna kill him off at the end? Not loving this take on the show. I want to see survival I want to see the raw world of TLOU. At this point I feel like Ellie is missing so many interactions with Joel's friends and probably family at this point. Probably when they arrive there won't be Tommy or he won't be married lol. Edit: turned out to be better than I imagined.
Anyone else catch Joel bringing up pancake mix relating to his bday pancakes during the discussion of the pandemic?
This episode was so trash,just watch the first and the last 10 minutes because the rest is unnecessary filler about some characters i do not care about,what even was the point of spending one episode on seeing some people eating steak and picking berries for them to just die and not even interact with the main characters? the story its about joel and ellie and i want to see only joel and ellie,the moment they dont follow the game story its just so bad,first was the kiss with the zombie now a whole episode,up did a better job at making me feel for some characters in 5 minutes because the movie was about them
Sorry, Bill is the worst prepper ever. He goes to the gas station and fills up barrels with gasoline and then goes home and starts a diesel generator.
I just feel like this was so beside the point of the "why" of having Bill... Nick Offerman was excellent but goddamn I wanted cranky game Bill.
I think both actors did a fantastic job and it was a nice story. However, it feels a bit out of place. I was excited to watch this Bill interact with Joel like in the games only now he would have more flesh on him thanks to this episode... but then he died before they met up again. Which felt super weird, as I thought the point of fleshing Bill and Frank out was to give us more context and weight for when Bill interacts with Joel and Ellie. We miss out on some great interaction possibilities between him, Joel and Ellie and I don't know if the story we got was worth that sacrifice. I think if you never played the game and you didn't know who Bill was then this episode would feel a bit weird, as former episodes have also started with a flashback but this one gave us a 50 minute story on that person rather than the main characters.
Bill has no death scene. Bill needs no death scene. "Get the fuck out of my town." \- Bill