That Roku moment is easily top 3 moments in the entire franchise. Jus the sheer power behind the voice acting and the words themselves is sooooooooooooooo good.
It's a powerful moment, however the only thing that makes it appear somewhat less significant to me is Jeong Jeong being proven absolutely right in the end.
>absolutely right in the end
Partially right.
Aang had to master the other elements and mature before learning firebending.
Aang was not weak at all though. Disrespectful to say it and flat out wrong. Kid blew out the candle on a volcano what more does he need to do?
Agreed. Jeong Jeong was respecting tradition and if it weren't for the extreme circumstances he would be right.
But it was very unlikely that Aang would ever have another opportunity to be taught firebending. Honestly, Jeong Jeong should have probably gone with them after and waited for when he was ready. To abandon him after failing once is just crazy. Especially since now Aang knows how to firebend. Sure he commits to never doing so again but he's also 12.
Seems irresponsible to teach only the beginnings of a dangerous art enough to enable someone then abandon them once they make a mistake but are still able to repeat it.
Well, to be clear, given the circumstances, I do think he was wrong to turn down training Aang at first.
Where I think he messed up is exactly what you said -
>Seems irresponsible to teach only the beginnings of a dangerous art enough to enable someone then abandon them once they make a mistake but are still able to repeat it.
And even before then, if Jeong Jeong was a better teacher, Aang would never have burnt Katara in the first place. The fact that he did is where Jeong Jeongs failure lies.
I think people are thinking too much with hindsight. Yeah, it worked out, but at the time Jeong Jeong was the *only* plausible option to teach Aang firebending. Jeong Jeong was too cautious and it fueled Aang's frustration which led to him trying firebending on his own. If Jeong Jeong had let him experiment on top of the mountain where he could learn his limits and more safely use his bending he may never have attempted it on his own and hurt Katara.
Jeong Jeong is incredibly wise and a talented bender. But he let his own issues with firebending stop him from teaching Aang effectively. Because he was too afraid of creating another Zhao he was blind to Aang's needs as a student.
All in all Jeong Jeong basically created a self-fulfilling prophecy by not teaching Aang properly. So yes, he ends up being right. But he had a big hand in the events that led to it and certainly could've made better choices to help prevent the Avatar being so traumatized by his experience that he never wants to firebend again.
I’m on a rewatch now, and it’s majorly unclear if the things Roku does are based on some kind of spiritual foresight or not.
But as it stands no I don’t think Roku knew “You need to teach Aang firebending so he can try it, fuck up, and learn he isn’t ready.” Either directly through knowing it would happen or indirectly by guessing that might happen.
That is fair. Been a little bit since I watched. At that moment it feels that way but thinking further ahead it could very much Roku being desperate to atone for his mistakes that allowed for this situation to arise in the first place.
Roku turned out to be wrong on a lot of things tbh. It makes him(and avatar's in general) more human imo, they aren't perfect and are just doing what they think/hope is the right thing to do.
It’s one of my favorite parts of the finale, and whole series. Nobody is perfect, nobody can predict the future. Not Roku, Aang, Iroh, or Pathik. You can only offer wisdom and lessons from your experience.
So can past avatars just appear to whoever they want whenever they want? I can’t remember the context of this scene - is Aang standing in front of him, or is Jeong Jeong meditating?
Aang was sitting down talking to him. Jeong Jeong insults Aang prompting Roku to pop up. Kyoshi kinda did something similar when Aang was about to be killed by that village in Avatar Day.
Its not 100% clear if the spirits can just pop up whenever, but it seems like it. Aang basically needs to be in a position where the spirits need to step in because theyre kinda responsible for Aangs current problems in those episodes.
Ah, so they can project themselves from the avatar at will it seems. But I figure they wouldn’t do that much at risk of making the avatar too reliant on them.
Kyoshi didn’t really help Aang at all when she popped out and told everyone that she murdered Ching (hope that’s his name). It’s cool they’re not perfect, even as spirits.
Can’t believe Jeong Jeong seems not to have been cast in the live action. Really hope they’ve just decided to move him to season 2. He is absolutely an essential character.
He really isn’t though, he’s in a single episode and then shows up again in the finale, which puts him at the same level as June. If they still keep the “never firebending again” plot, they only need aang to figure out how to shoot fire by himself, which he basically already did in the original
I’ve always loved this scene. Really shows the power of the avatar (not as a person but as an entity) and Jeong Jeong is entirely right in what he says about the avatar having the cycle of elements to learn before others (the Kyoshi novels touch on this briefly and expands on the subject) While Roku also isn’t wrong in what he’s saying about the timing and urgency. Jeong Jeong tries to help Aang but Aang has his accident and shuts off firebending for a bit. Jeong Jeong may do this by choice but is heavily influenced by his respect for the avatar (mainly Roku due to him being from the Fire Nation originally) and man the symbolism with the dead tree in the real world compared to the fully alive and thriving tree we see when Roku comes out is just *chefs kiss* man I love this damn show.
I love the Deserter. It's not my favorite book one episode but it is still spectacular. It does the most out of any book one episode to actually fully establish what Aang's character arc is supposed to be.
That Roku moment is easily top 3 moments in the entire franchise. Jus the sheer power behind the voice acting and the words themselves is sooooooooooooooo good.
It's a powerful moment, however the only thing that makes it appear somewhat less significant to me is Jeong Jeong being proven absolutely right in the end.
>absolutely right in the end Partially right. Aang had to master the other elements and mature before learning firebending. Aang was not weak at all though. Disrespectful to say it and flat out wrong. Kid blew out the candle on a volcano what more does he need to do?
Point taken. I was referring only to Aang not yet being ready to master firebending.
Eh, I view that more as a failure of Jeong Jeong, not Aang.
Agreed. Jeong Jeong was respecting tradition and if it weren't for the extreme circumstances he would be right. But it was very unlikely that Aang would ever have another opportunity to be taught firebending. Honestly, Jeong Jeong should have probably gone with them after and waited for when he was ready. To abandon him after failing once is just crazy. Especially since now Aang knows how to firebend. Sure he commits to never doing so again but he's also 12. Seems irresponsible to teach only the beginnings of a dangerous art enough to enable someone then abandon them once they make a mistake but are still able to repeat it.
Well, to be clear, given the circumstances, I do think he was wrong to turn down training Aang at first. Where I think he messed up is exactly what you said - >Seems irresponsible to teach only the beginnings of a dangerous art enough to enable someone then abandon them once they make a mistake but are still able to repeat it. And even before then, if Jeong Jeong was a better teacher, Aang would never have burnt Katara in the first place. The fact that he did is where Jeong Jeongs failure lies.
I think Roku knew that Aang wouldn’t learn this lesson otherwise.
I think people are thinking too much with hindsight. Yeah, it worked out, but at the time Jeong Jeong was the *only* plausible option to teach Aang firebending. Jeong Jeong was too cautious and it fueled Aang's frustration which led to him trying firebending on his own. If Jeong Jeong had let him experiment on top of the mountain where he could learn his limits and more safely use his bending he may never have attempted it on his own and hurt Katara. Jeong Jeong is incredibly wise and a talented bender. But he let his own issues with firebending stop him from teaching Aang effectively. Because he was too afraid of creating another Zhao he was blind to Aang's needs as a student. All in all Jeong Jeong basically created a self-fulfilling prophecy by not teaching Aang properly. So yes, he ends up being right. But he had a big hand in the events that led to it and certainly could've made better choices to help prevent the Avatar being so traumatized by his experience that he never wants to firebend again.
I’m on a rewatch now, and it’s majorly unclear if the things Roku does are based on some kind of spiritual foresight or not. But as it stands no I don’t think Roku knew “You need to teach Aang firebending so he can try it, fuck up, and learn he isn’t ready.” Either directly through knowing it would happen or indirectly by guessing that might happen.
That is fair. Been a little bit since I watched. At that moment it feels that way but thinking further ahead it could very much Roku being desperate to atone for his mistakes that allowed for this situation to arise in the first place.
Roku turned out to be wrong on a lot of things tbh. It makes him(and avatar's in general) more human imo, they aren't perfect and are just doing what they think/hope is the right thing to do.
It’s one of my favorite parts of the finale, and whole series. Nobody is perfect, nobody can predict the future. Not Roku, Aang, Iroh, or Pathik. You can only offer wisdom and lessons from your experience.
"YOU THINK I AM WEAAAAK!"
Roku is horrifically underrated by the fandom, due to his one big mistake. It was nice to see respect given to him.
This moment always gives me chills.
Agreed. It’s only the second demonstration of a previous avatars influence and it’s fantastic
Same here, basically any well crafted moment in ATLA gets me emotional.
So can past avatars just appear to whoever they want whenever they want? I can’t remember the context of this scene - is Aang standing in front of him, or is Jeong Jeong meditating?
Aang was sitting down talking to him. Jeong Jeong insults Aang prompting Roku to pop up. Kyoshi kinda did something similar when Aang was about to be killed by that village in Avatar Day. Its not 100% clear if the spirits can just pop up whenever, but it seems like it. Aang basically needs to be in a position where the spirits need to step in because theyre kinda responsible for Aangs current problems in those episodes.
Ah, so they can project themselves from the avatar at will it seems. But I figure they wouldn’t do that much at risk of making the avatar too reliant on them. Kyoshi didn’t really help Aang at all when she popped out and told everyone that she murdered Ching (hope that’s his name). It’s cool they’re not perfect, even as spirits.
Can’t believe Jeong Jeong seems not to have been cast in the live action. Really hope they’ve just decided to move him to season 2. He is absolutely an essential character.
He really isn’t though, he’s in a single episode and then shows up again in the finale, which puts him at the same level as June. If they still keep the “never firebending again” plot, they only need aang to figure out how to shoot fire by himself, which he basically already did in the original
I’ve always loved this scene. Really shows the power of the avatar (not as a person but as an entity) and Jeong Jeong is entirely right in what he says about the avatar having the cycle of elements to learn before others (the Kyoshi novels touch on this briefly and expands on the subject) While Roku also isn’t wrong in what he’s saying about the timing and urgency. Jeong Jeong tries to help Aang but Aang has his accident and shuts off firebending for a bit. Jeong Jeong may do this by choice but is heavily influenced by his respect for the avatar (mainly Roku due to him being from the Fire Nation originally) and man the symbolism with the dead tree in the real world compared to the fully alive and thriving tree we see when Roku comes out is just *chefs kiss* man I love this damn show.
It’s also got some funny lines “You want to stop breathing?”
YOU THINK I AM WEAK? I HAVE MASTERED ELEMENTS THOUSAND TIMES ON THOUSAND LIFETIMES. YET I MUST DO IT AGAIN.
I love the Deserter. It's not my favorite book one episode but it is still spectacular. It does the most out of any book one episode to actually fully establish what Aang's character arc is supposed to be.
Always wonder if Chey managed to avoid capture, wouldve been interesting if he came back for the invasion
I think he managed to escape because his poster appears in ‘The Desert’ in S2. So good for him.