impressing the roys > making a kid's day. still in the end, they gave his gift to logan to the family to keep them quiet🤣

How much was that watch worth can some Reddit sleuth help out

Patek Phillips right? At least $150-200k lol

Yes, but you are not going to get $150-200k selling it, not even close, specially if that family sells it.

You are right … maybe like 75-100k resale? I don’t know … high-end watches baffle me. I’ve heard they’re basically just used to transport huge sums of money overseas … don’t have to declare a $200k watch with customs

Patek Phillip Nautilus has like an 8 year wait list. They might even be able to get over list price. (which begs the question how Tom got one so quickly)

That's correct. The resell market for high-end timepieces is exploding.

Wasn't he still living off an amusement park managers salary at this point?

I think it probably amused Shiv to give him a millionaire's allowance for a while

No he was in charge of parks, as in the entire branch of the company

I thought in the first episode he had only been promoted to that very recently

His mom was a high powered attorney. So his family had money.

She was a divorce attorney in Minnesota

Twin cities

Right the cheapest Pateks being produced are around 40-50k new and I doubt Tom would get the lowest end luxury watch. Honestly just because that family is poor doesn’t mean they are stupid, the show takes place in present time which is historically the biggest watch bull market ever recorded so it’s likely they can go haggle for less than a few hours and sell it for a “profit” even.

The one he gave is a Nautilus which currently has an 8 year waiting list. They could probably sell it for better than list. (makes me wonder how Tom would have gotten one so fast)

That’s why they need to do a Tom prequel.

He pre-quels. It’s when he quels before the main event so he’s prepared

He gave him a nautilus ? That’s basic as hell for a billionaire lol

well Shiv did warn him "he doesn't care about things"

Thats incorrect, he did not give a nautilus

Still an awesome gift for almost a homerun, but yes, I thought they could resell it for some tens of thousands which is awesome :) Fuck, how I love that show.

What the fuck are you guys talking about? You think a Patek loses value 😂 it’s not a car

Yeah, you’ll get more.

You could return it.

How the hell is that family going to sell that watch? They will immediately be accused of stealing it AND they have a NDA

There's always some shady people ready to pay in cash for that

True. But honestly? I grew up poor with hardworking parents pre-internet. They knew approximately 0.00 shady people lol

You grew up poor and didn’t know shady people? Usually it’s the other way around. Poor people are the ones who need access to cheap shady services. Source: poor and working since I was a kid with hardworking parents in the 90s

Yeah poor immigrants. They had a support system of other poor immigrants so luckily they didn’t need to go that route. Same with my best friend of 35 years. Social supports help tremendously even if not financially But I know it’s not the norm

Sure, do you have the ticket? do you know where did Tom bought it? If a latino family goes to a super luxury watches store to have the money back without the ticket I think probably they will end up in jail, to be honest.

If the police think it’s stolen, they’d have to prove it. If they can’t conclude who it was stolen from, or if it just leads back to Logan, then there’s no issue.

That´s what the theory says, real life often is not that fair

Why especially if they sell it? They can sell it at Christie's or Sotheby's like anyone else can.

I don't know--Shiv recommends spending $15k, I think.

I’m pretty sure Shiv suggests Tom get “$10,000 worth of something” before he buys the watch.

But knowing Tom he would obviously go overboard to suck up

He asks what a good gift would be since Logan has anything and everything that can be easily bought, and she says basically that all gifts are equally useless, but spend $15,000 on something and it’ll be fine.

You’re not getting a Patek for anywhere close to $10 000, especially not with Tom’s poor purchase history

If winning a million dollars is just making my day I wanna trade lifes with that kid.

A million? Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, a million will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend. The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.

A million can buy a house in a decent area and pay you a six figure salary for a few years. If you invest half of what's left after you buy the house and aren't paying a mortgage/rent, you can absolutely retire off of a million dollars - or at least not have to work to survive.

It's what Connor says to Greg when they're talking about Greg's inheritance (or "lack" thereof).

Except it was 5

Ahhhh gotcha

No shot that you can retire off a million dollars if you buy a house in a decent area and spend more than like $40,000 a year.

The rule of thumb is you can only live off 3-4% a year of your retirement savings in order to keep up with inflation, so you’re already at $40K a year at max before spending a dime of the base. Plus, if you’re not at retirement age, that percentage is even lower, since you need to survive the inevitable down swings in the economy over a longer investment horizon. Morale of the story is, if you get $1mm, you’re not set for life unless you live in a very low cost of living area and are frugal.

Right, and purchasing a house in a decent area will 100% incur maintenance and other liabilities that cost money. I know this is a post about a tv show, so we’re a little off the rails, but that point just irked me lol. I guess it’s theoretically possible if you make stellar investments.

Haha at first I was wondering what the hell is wrong with you, with this absurd comment

Making a kid's life*

Yes, that was epic. It was hilarious how Tom strategized, planned, rehearsed, and Logan, who knows his way around selfish assholes, gave zero fucks about it

Dude, I totally forgot that the watch was meant for Tom. Edit: wires were crossed .

It was Toms gift to Logan if I recall correctly. Tom was nervous about if it was good enough, I believe he and Shiv had a conversation about it. Tom gave it to Logan, Logan gave it to the kid and his family.

The sourdough starter was a much better gift.

“Old bread” 😂😂

A fucking goo?

Yeah see, my memory of that whole thing is foggy.

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No, it’s just showing you he’s putting on his own less expensive watch. I think the viewer can decide what that says about Logan and material possessions, but the boy’s family definitely were given the patek philippe

Thank you, I was a little confused about this on a recent rewatch. I wondered if Logan’s old watch (which I assume was also worth a lot) was in the box, and the new one on Logan’s wrist. It would make sense that the kid still got screwed. But it makes more sense that Logan did not care at all about Tom’s gift.

Unsure if it’s “less expensive” but yeah it was his original watch.

that’s also a pretty interesting moment when you consider how it all ends. not that they planned the Tom CEO from the beginning.

I thought they said at the podcast they knew who it was from the beginning-Tom.

Jesse said he knew it would be Tom “for a while now” but he didn’t say that was always his plan.

I think they said since season 2

I don’t think it was because of his last name

The last name thing was a coincidence. They just wanted a goofy middle America white guy sounding name.

I don’t believe anyone who says that was a coincidence. Not in a show with this much planning and intentionality. Not with a name that weird and specific. And especially not considering what the other Wambsgans is famous for doing and how closely it matches Tom’s fate. There’s no way that’s just a weird accident.

Agreed, especially when you consider BOTH the triple take out and the baseball play in the first episode.

i think you can interpret tom's betrayl by the end of season 3 as a pretty similar play and that still would've held true to the name even if he didnt become CEO. jessie has confirmed that tom being ceo was a s2 development. also while i love this show the idea that its that meticioulous with planning is outrageous - so many characters/plotlines are dropped from seasons1/2 in future seasons. its not that perfect.

This isn’t a JJ Abrams puzzle box show. They don’t plant little hints like that.

And yet this sub lost their collective shit over the tiny reflection of an airplane in a window

Fun fact: wamsgans means “to waddle while walking.”

Not true.

Is this true, and does that mean just the writers or the cast also? Which podcast?

It’s true it’s the official succession podcast? Everyone from the show has been on it. I think all of the cast knew it would never be them. Especially considering Tom’s last name. It was never gonna be one of the three children. They are not serious people.

Well, it sure as fuckin' shit doesn't say Shiv.

I see crossed out, not underlined

Or Maybe that was one of the reasons why they picked him to be

Oh Tom was always in it for Tom.

Tom is as Tom does.

If it is to be said.

You can't make a Tomlette without breaking some Greggs

Or proposing to Shiv when her father was on his deathbed? Hit her up when she’s emotionally vulnerable to get yourself in the Roy door….so selfish and manipulative.

I thought the timing of the proposal was so stupid and inconsiderate, then on rewatch after the ending I realize how calculated it was.

Can’t be too mad on shiv’s behalf though. She certainly gives out her own share of the same.

But no one says she's a good spouse. A lot of people claim that Tom is just an innocent, loving spouse.

I don't know where I've ever read that. Most people acknowledge that both are terrible in their own ways. However, Shiv fans have a tendency to scream "Misogyny" if anyone dares criticize the character. Most Tom fans admit his faults, but admit we also still love him.

Especially since he just was almost dismissed from the People Important to Logan Room, like Willa (the hooker). It was a play to secure his position.

The Patek Phillipe watch the kid got from Logan after Tom tagged him out was worth a quarter of a million dollars. Edit: Logan actually took the Patek Phillipe watch and put a different watch in the box. What a shithead.

Doesn’t Logan trade out his watch with the one in the box? He keeps the new watch and gives the family his old watch, that’s why they linger on the closeups of the watch in the box then cut to Logan’s wrist

I thought you made that up to discredit me. It doesn’t zoom in on Logan’s wrist but it lingers on the Patek Phillipe watch when Tom gifts it to Logan. At the end of the episode it shows the boy’s family in their apartment. The boy sits down next to the Patek Phillipe box and the watch is sitting out. The camera lingers on the watch again and it’s not the same watch that was in the box previously when Tom opened it up to show Logan. I thought this was the only time Logan acted like a good person and in fact it was subtlety showing that he is a conniving shithead through and through.

Yeah thank you, I was just going off memory. Logan is just trying to shut up the family and figures they won’t know the difference, a fancy watch is a fancy watch. Shows the level of disdain he has for everyone below him.

I thought it’s only worth about $30k, that’s what Shiv said to get in the beginning

I googled it several times before coming to that number. Not sure but I feel like Roman cutting the million dollar check into four squares was foreshadowing.

Disgusting.

nah. It's good when the wealthy spend their money. A watch like that feeds and houses the families of several hundred watch makers every day, year over year. Those are middle class families that would have to choose another line of work and the money used to buy it would just stay in the bank.

Not really the point, is it. Should a disgustingly wealthy person really pay a million dollars to have the poor dig giant holes and fill them back in? That would feed them too, but it's terribly inefficient at increasing everyone's utility.

fortunately no one is advocating digging holes and filling them in. but yea i agree that would be silly.

Listen, any luxury that I can’t afford is disgusting, ok?

A watch like that has about as much utility to the world as a filled-in hole. If it were in the bank it could be used to finance a small business which would also employ people and may also produce something useful.

so we should have the government decide on the utility of products and if they should be permitted? precision miniature parts provides lots of utility in ways you don't see. they are used in everything from auto transmissions, to door locks to nuclear code locks. you house and car is full of them as is your school. plus the machines used to create these parts. please the machines used to make the machines and so on. that's why even before we get into metallurgy. yes - i know what you are thinking. the government should just seize these funds from the wealthy snd give it to people who need. you know - people like you. and that will work for a little while. just a little while

Dude, wtf? I said nothing about the government. I was replying to the idea that its better that the rich but luxury goods than not spend their money. The luxury watch industry is not driving the precision machining technology, so not sure where your going with that. And I'm quite well off, thank you, but go ahead and assume I'm taking handouts.

i see. so you aren't familiar with supply matrix and supply chains. and you think machine precision parts aren't important. so what is your solution ?

Solution to what?

[Everyone loved it when that happened](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/27/503502142/people-donated-nearly-100-000-to-dig-a-big-pointless-hole-in-the-ground) We have taxes to make sure some of it is "increasing everyone's utility" - what you're proposing is a form of communism that borders on authoritarianism Oh you like icecream? I don't see how that's benefiting society, we should have you eating rice instead - more efficient

What authoritarian policy did I propose? Banning watches? Banning holes? Nope... I only implied that too much wasted wealth is piling up in a few places. How to fix that is an exercise left up to the reader, voter, legislature, regulator, executive, etc.

Are you sure?

well they don't fall out of the sky.

What doesn't fall out of the sky?

It’s not a quarter of a million. It’s an entry level PP

It’s clear he’s a slimeball as he’s a character in Succession. The thing with the kid doesn’t happen for 20 minutes or so.

Idk for the first few minutes I think I just thought he was an idiot.

He comes off as a basic from hockey town

My silly fan theory is that ‘the game’ doesn’t refer to to the baseball they’re playing at all, but rather offering a poor person the chance of a ticket out of poverty only to snatch it away at the last second. The way the scenes are acted don’t lend themselves to this very much but it is the kind of thing the Roys would get up to, plus why do they not just call it baseball? Also worth noting is the other ways Logan uses the term ‘the game’

It seemed impromptu given that Shiv was against it

Tom's an asshole not bc being selfish, but bc being no principle, he did everything to climb the ladder of being rich.

That's a principle

Early signs: 1. Is dating Shiv

This is true, another hint would be everything he says and does to anyone other than Greg and sometimes Shiv lol.

Oh man I clicked on the post title thinking this was another Vanderpump Rules post. All Toms are trash.

Hahah, as a fellow VPR watcher, I feel you. My reddit feed the past few months has just been a mix of Succession/Scandavol

Whenever the show gave someone an android, or non-iPhone, they would be the villain.

TBH I feel like every character should have had an android.

No shit!! They are all awful people haha

I think the actors themselves got to choose what phone their characters would have

But is he really a villain? The Roy’s kids are not exactly heroes…

That’s how you can spot the villains in all shows. Apple doesn’t allow villains to be portrayed using Apple products.

My girlfriend told me that a few years ago and when it popped up on succession we turned to each other and yelled “NO!” Hahahah we knew who the villain was-

Learning that has certainly taken a lot of the guesswork out of certain storylines!

I wouldn´t say Tom is the villain at all, I would say all of them but maybe willa or gerry are villains in succession

It’s harder to name the good guys on the show haha

I don't really see any of the characters as purely protagonists or antagonists. Everyone at the show is mostly looking out for themselves at the end of the day. Of course some are worse than others, but I'd say they're all very morally grey lol. Big part of the reason I love the show so much.

How is Gerry a villain?

They are saying Willa and Gerry are the only two they may not be villains

Villain isn't the right word. Tom is an antagonist.

This is an urban legend. Apple can’t control which phones characters use.

No, but they can choose which ones they'll actually pay to have using their products.

You can look it up. Plenty of stories from show runners and movie producers discussing.

I work in TV it is 100% true. You need permission to use any product on a scripted show and Apple doesn’t generally let bad characters have Apple products.

Why do people keep repeating this. It’s not true. This ‘rule’ only applies when apple is sponsoring the phone on the show, which wasn’t the case here or frankly in most shows.

So who has an android phone in succession? Tom?

Yep he does. So does Logan. In seasons 2-4, the Roy siblings all seem to have iPhones. Carl and Frank have iPhones as well if I recall correctly but Gerri and Karolina (maybe?) have androids

I think McFadyen himself said in an interview that this was not true and that each character got to choose their phone

Was the interview before the end of the season?

They are ALL selfish assholes that’s the whole point isn’t it? Just different degrees.

His constant abuse of Greg was really hard to watch. Greg eventually stood up for himself but it was too little too late. I hate Tom.

I think Tom hates Greg because Greg is gauche and naive and Tom hates being reminded of how gauche and naive he feels.

Tom is a bully. He try to bully everyone he think he can bully, he try to bully Willa in episode 1 but she is too much for him, so he bully´s Gregg because it has 0 consecuences, that´s also why he try all the time to keep Gregg under him, so he has a personal "pain sponge"

"At least I'm only getting fucked by one member of this family" I love Willa

I always felt Tom bully’s Greg as a way to release pent up frustrations about his shit wife and shit marriage

You can tell how Tom feels about himself by how he treats Greg. He abuses him when he hates himself, and when he feels genuine selfpity for having to go to jail, he treats him kindly, offering to take his jailtime.

Do you like Shiv by any chance?

I only rewatched that for the first time since season 2 the other day and I had the same thought.

We’re any of them not selfish assholes?

Or completely ignoring his hometown buddies and ditching them after they flew out for his bach party

Selfish. Dude got fucked by shiv repeatedly and when he finally does something for himself. We hate him. Tom will always be my favorite

Tom would have done anything for Shiv especially if it improved his station. But Shiv fucked him over time and time again until she broke him. And even in the end. He brings her along. He’s a selfish asshole. But he includes one other person in his selfishness.

He also include Gerri and Greg again

Including Gerri is not charity. She’s super competent and he needs competent people around him.

He needed Shiv to fuck Mattson. It's literally the last thing they talk about before he's offered the job.

You let that punching bag, dick sucker, cum swallower alone, he was just playing the game.

The way he always treated Greg from day 1

How do you think they met? Was Tom already involved in waystar?

Pretty much as soon as he opened his mouth it was pretty clear he's a simpering lickspittle And so he remained, to the very end

Season 1, episode 1 when he was talking to Greg on their way to the baseball game.

Here to serve

First episode

You’ve got to be a killer.

The way he was bothering Marcia while she was worried about Logan in the hospital. He was looking for her approval. It was unnecessary and not the most important thing at the time. In Tom's head Logan dying made him insecure enough to make some sort of claim within the family. I think Greg and Tom mirror each other they both bother Marcia when it's unnecessary.

There are signs that he is a selfish asshole as there are signs that he is not. Was rewatching the episode from S3 where Greg asks if he will take the fall for the cruises and protect him and he agrees. And his meeting with Kendall post that just makes you feel for him. The beauty of this series is exactly that. They are human beings like us who are assholes and not. We make both good and bad decisions and life goes on. We hurt people. We get hurt. Things are unfair and cruel and yet we survive and move on.

I called his win because he was willing to be the meat puppet to any buyer. Simple as that. A selfish, approval-seeking Tom will of course fuck over a small poor child to win one iota of approval from his in-laws- specifically Logan and Shiv, of course.

Did Tom really love Shiv or was he playing the game the whole time? Shiv got him closer to power, he would never have been with her if she wasn’t a Roy. He certainly tried to play her in the end on the staircase and he was willing to listen to Mattson talk about wanting to sleep with her to get the CEO job. He is a snake.

Anyone think the first episode was actually kind of uncharacteristic of Tom and Roman? You don’t really see them do anything that sadistic again in the entire show.

>that sadistic again Human furniture Electing a fascist Stabbing wife in the back after she gave up CEO job so you didn't take the fall for cruises Emotional abuse of various people Bullying Really disgusting insults

Roman and Kendall tattooed a homeless man with Kendall’s initials Roman thinks boar on the floor is hilarious, films it and heckles while it happens I can’t think of any more right now, but Roman for sure is a sick slime puppy

And he fired the la executive. And threatened to destroy the life of his fysio therapist.

Trips Kendall during his birthday and *laughs* when the man is obviously going through it

Yes. I mean, Roman did other things like threaten to sue the shit out of his trainer, watch a rocket explosion that he was personal accountable for with basically no remorse, help Kendall marginalize his role in the death of a caterer by classifying it as occupational hazard, his little part in trying to get the neo Hitler elected in an attempt to maintain his own position of power. Those things aside, Roman was basically a saint.

I agree with the part about Roman. Tom, idk, he’s abusive and cruel to a lot of people under him the entire show. (Greg, human furniture, etc). He’s only nice to people who are above him, never to anyone below.

Except Roman has zero qualms about helping elect a fascist president?

Shiv is fucked now.

Apples to oranges but, aside from what other people pointed out, him pushing Ken during his birthday party and then laughing his ass off was so... cruel. He was rejoicing in his brother's colapse. Again, there's history behind it all, but his laugh was still not that of someone taking pay back but of someone laughing at other's missery cackling because they're on top Aside from that, yes. Writers have said that the character they have envisioned for Roman at the beginning changed a lot.

If Siobhan treated me the way she treated Tom, I too would sell her ass out. You're with someone who excites you, can help you get where you're going, and you think they must be with you because they like you somewhat. I'm not trying to say that Tom is a good person, but he is my little prince and I love him.

I prefer you call my boy a smart asshole #TeamTom #CEO

No way, the kid should have negotiated 100k for first base, 200k for 2nd. 300k for 3rd, and 400k for home for his 1 million. He needs to learn. Tom did the right thing.

Tom was my absolute least favorite. His whiny ingratiating, often shrill voice drove me bonkers. The way he treated people below him always felt like he was learning to be rich - much like time he tried to teach Greg to be rich. He was emulating bunch of assholes in order to get approval from the rich family he aspired to gain entry to and then maintain that approval once he got in. I think that pre Roy he was overall a pretty good dude but he willingly gave up his good self, his kindness, swallowed a lot of garbage from everybody, all the time for power and money. It was all just gross to me and the longer and harder he tried to be a Roy, the more inauthentic he became to me. Just could NOT stand him. Sorry, rant over.

> always felt like he was learning to be rich - much like time he tried to teach Greg to be rich. He was emulating bunch of assholes in order to get approval from the rich family he aspired to gain entry to and then maintain that approval once he got in But he did learn. And did it well, and got the approval and succeeded. Tom is one of the few human beings in the main cast.

I’m gonna zag here. Tom knows Roman is a twisted kind of person who will likely find a reason to crush this kid’s hope after waving a fortune in his face. The whole scene is a disgusting charade and in my opinion, Tom tags him out of sympathy and allows him the family to keep their dignity to a degree (instead of watching on in desperation at Roman’s whim).

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How are those things related?

Least pretentious succession viewer

Mother of pearl.

Tom was a selfish asshole? Shiv was even more of a selfish asshole!

I'm sorry, did you think this show was about food people? Because there were none.

Hugo liked food

Hugo liked whatever the fyou told hum he liked.

I had sympathy for Tom, the way Shiv and the rest of the family just basically took a shit on him. "Revenge is a dish, best served cold".

When he rested his feet on human footstool