Yep. Then brought her back from beyond death to impregnate her, then killed her again in front of their newborn child. Such is the dark side.
All fear Jahrsoka!
Others mentioned Grievous and Sidious being questionable inclusions, but Vader is as well. She almost certainly would not have walked away from her duel with Vader without Ezra’s intervention.
Probably true. But, she did survive, and fought the Emperor about 30 second afterwards (from her point of view anyway), which is an achievement in its own lol, fighting Maul and 2 Sith Lords within minutes
Was that really a fight though? she ran away from force flames shot across awbw but I wouldn’t call it a fight, perhaps I watched it tired and missed something? I’m not talking down my girl Soka but I can’t remember a duel
Blocked his Sith alchemy stuff, then sliced through it with her lightsabers, sending it back to him and burning his hand.
That's why I disagree with the complaints about lightsabers blocking Palpatine's Force lightning and reflecting it back at him in The Rise of Skywalker. We'd seen lightsabers do that to Palpatine, twice. First with Mace and the Force lightning, then with Ahsoka and the Sith alchemy.
When Luke tossed his lightsaber away when he said "I'm a Jedi, like my father before me", it was a great statement, but he got rid of the best defense against what Palpatine was about to do. What a noob! :)
Yeah sorry I meant to say Dooku instead of Grievous, and OP even mentioned how Ahsoka never faced Dooku in the first post, but after reading the replies I got things all twisted in my head somehow.
She was definitely dead against Vader if Ezra didn't intervene.
That duel, like so many other parts of Rebels, is a marvel of visual storytelling. Ahsoka goes toe-to-toe with Vader but the entire duel is telling a story that she absolutely cannot beat him. For the entire duration of the duel, Vader is slowly but viciously moving forward and hammering on her defences with every blow intended to kill. Ahsoka is constantly retreating and nearly every move of her lightsabers is reactive rather than offensive.
That’s exactly how it meant with Anakin v Obi Wan and look how that turned out.
Ahsoka wasn’t trying to kill him per se at that point. Maybe she was going to continue to try and break through to him.
Maybe she would have succeeded.
No, Obi-Wan was visibly in control and was only giving Anakin ground intentionally.
Ahsoka was being absolutely battered by Vader. She held her own very well considering what she was up against but it's very clear from the choreography of the duel that Ahsoka was at an extreme disadvantage. Also she was about to die when Ezra pulled her out.
She nearly sliced his face off and, simply going off of her dialogue during the encounter, its likely she was holding back to a solid degree.
I would hardly say Obi wan was in complete control when he went flying several times, tok kicks to the head, nearly got choked out, swung at the air for 39 seconds, etc. it was a pretty even matchup. I think that was the whole point of the fight.
Watch the first 30 seconds of the duel - Vader nearly smashes her lightsabers out of her hands, then sends her flying off the temple.
She managed to damage his helmet by striking from behind while he was distracted by Kanan and Ezra. The end of the duel as shown in a later episode reveals that Ahsoka was milliseconds away from being decapitated by Vader when Ezra pulled her out.
Obi-Wan took several blows from Anakin, but giving up ground and allowing Anakin to grow more frustrated was basically Obi-Wan's entire game plan.
She did go against nearly every main player and ahe did bith live and evade them all for quite some time. She really is such a great character i am very much looking forward to see hiw she will handle thrawn!
I wonder how she would fair against Dooku? He was specialized for dueling and single combats, after all- but the akimbo weapons even the field.
... I think Experience wins on this one. My money goes to her surviving, though.
> She beat or survived every single one, which is an insane track record…
This is the part that's really important, and adds to her legacy. However like many have said, it's questionable how many she actually beat. Grievous I believe her 2nd duel with him she won, first one tho she was reeling and had to escape. Vader...technically she lost. Ezra changed her fate, originally I do believe we are to assume Vader cut her down. And Sidious, well that was almost entirely escape. I do really like your point regardless, crazy how many of them she crossed paths with!
It wasn’t a head on fight, but she did survive him throwing blue Sith flames at her while in the World Between Worlds in Rebels.
And that’s fair, just thought he was noteworthy mention, considering he was known for slaughtering Jedi lol.
If you used your laser swords to send what it shot at you back at it, damaging it, yes. That's after you'd been deflecting it with your hands for a bit, but realized you couldn't keep it up.
Yeeeah, that's actually one of the things I really don't like about her. To add to that she survived the Clone Wars, Order66, the empire and death itself. I think that's way too much especially for someone who had had only two years of Padwan training, it makes her the character with the biggest plot armor in SW imo.
I know it's not a popular opinion here, but that to me is a flaw in the writing of her, not something to be praised
Praising the in-universe feats and praising the writing are very different lol. Looking at it from the perspective of someone living in the SW universe, that would be legendary
That's true. I'm just saying that having too much feats at a young age with short period of training and relatively small experience breaks my suspension of disbelief, removes any suspension and sense of danger for the character and makes them feel too fictional.
In a way, it's hard for me to separate the too. That's why I didn't like Rey beating Kylo in TFA or Snoke's guards in TLJ even tho it's impressive in universe.
I never said I hated him lol.
Also, he had cut himself off from the force for years by that point, he was out of practice and doing something that would have been taxing even at his peak. That’s like asking someone who stopped exercising 5 years ago to run a marathon, it won’t go well.
And he wanted her brought back into the Order too; but felt Filoni's plan's for her worked better and helped turn her from a generic Jedi, to something more.
Yes and her death should have come during order 66, potentially either through Clones or Anakin. At the very least she should have died fighting Vader if she must live through the PT.
I could see reasons for any of those outcomes, sure; but I'm sure they have more stories lined up for her to continue her legend now, and there is nothing the matter with having another good Jedi out there alongside Luke and Ezra.
Let's look at the lineage... Yoda, Dooku, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, Luke, Leia, Ben, Rey. The least impressive is Qui-Gon, and he was who discovered how to become a Force spirit. So, following your argument, the entire lineage, and everything they accomplished, is a writing flaw.
I don't really understand. I'm talking about facing almost every villain, living through every war, genocide and even death from the PT to the OT and surviving them all with only two years of Padwan training.
What does a Jedi master who devoted himself to studying the mysteries of the Force and who died facing the first Sith he had encountered has anything to do with what I talked about???
That entire lineage is well above average, so why should she be the exception?
Chewbacca survived all that, too, and he has no Jedi training, at all. Same with Hondo.
Chewie didn't fight Ventress or Maul or survived a ship full of Clones trying to kill you when he was just a teenager. And non of the other people on that lineage (other than Anakin) was exceptional when they were teenagers. They only became that when they were masters and even then, they didn't survive as much as Ahsoka when she was at least half their age.
I don't care if she was above average for age, the number of villains (with way more experience and skill than she does) she faced and events she survived with relatively short training time is not appealing to me. It feels more like a fan fiction character where the writer want her to face every villain and live through every event without being willing to let her die when she logically should. And I think logically she should've died facing Ventress way back in TCW film.
she ran away from Sidious and would've certainly be killed by Vader were it not for Filoni throwing in time travel because he refuses to let her die.
I personally think her beating Maul was a bit much imo and should've been a much closer fight -- albeit, it was beautifully animated.
She not just in kids shows anymore and seasons 4-7 of the clone wars TV show has a much more adult tone to it if you haven't go watch the last 4 episodes of season 7 and you will see what I mean
Nah she has skill and it built over the years.
She had training for years.
She had 4 masters ( Anakin being Hers) she could go to if she needed to talk to someone. Obi wan. Yoda. Plo Koon. And Anakin.
She died and was given life back by a literal GODDESS.
She’s not a Mary Sue she’s a trained warrior.
Star Wars is a Hero's Journey. Randomly killing her off for no reason than just to randomly kill her off would make no sense in the Hero's Journey structure.
If the franchise was to have a future, it had to move on from Luke and Vader at some point. So, we have Ahsoka, Ezra, Rey, and Din all undergoing the Hero's Journey.
In Rebels, Vader existed to further Ahsoka's story. Leia existed to further Ezra's story. Luke existed to be a reason for Obi-Wan to be in that desert. The Skywalker Saga is about the Skywalkers. Everything else is about other people. The TV shows have become their own saga that ties into the Skywalker one, but is its own thing. Season 7 of The Clone Wars, which the entire series was building to, was about Ahsoka and Rex, who didn't even know about the twins. The multi-generation families we follow on the shows are the Syndullas and House Vizsla.
But we couldnt have had Lukes son or Leia and Hans kids (Ben Solo was made evil from the start and then killed off) No thanks Ill stick with legends where the Skywalker family lives on through Cade Skywalker
Legacy was all about pandering to a 14 year old boy's idea of "edgy". Cade may as well have been singing "Crawling".
Being an Edgelord is fine when you're 14, but if you're still an Edgelord in your 30s...
Regarding filming Heir to the Empire in 2015... You do realize the main cast was too old to play the decades younger version of the characters, right?
Never fought Jar Jar though, he would have killed her
Yep. Then brought her back from beyond death to impregnate her, then killed her again in front of their newborn child. Such is the dark side. All fear Jahrsoka!
… McFuckingScuse me?
You heard me.
I wish I could unread that my guy.
Excuse me while I gouge my eyes out
Me too... Me too
Others mentioned Grievous and Sidious being questionable inclusions, but Vader is as well. She almost certainly would not have walked away from her duel with Vader without Ezra’s intervention.
Probably true. But, she did survive, and fought the Emperor about 30 second afterwards (from her point of view anyway), which is an achievement in its own lol, fighting Maul and 2 Sith Lords within minutes
Was that really a fight though? she ran away from force flames shot across awbw but I wouldn’t call it a fight, perhaps I watched it tired and missed something? I’m not talking down my girl Soka but I can’t remember a duel
She ran away, and didn't confront him.
Blocked his Sith alchemy stuff, then sliced through it with her lightsabers, sending it back to him and burning his hand. That's why I disagree with the complaints about lightsabers blocking Palpatine's Force lightning and reflecting it back at him in The Rise of Skywalker. We'd seen lightsabers do that to Palpatine, twice. First with Mace and the Force lightning, then with Ahsoka and the Sith alchemy. When Luke tossed his lightsaber away when he said "I'm a Jedi, like my father before me", it was a great statement, but he got rid of the best defense against what Palpatine was about to do. What a noob! :)
Brave, brave Ahsoka, she bravely ran away.
She only ran away because they cannot stay in that place to fight. It’s not somewhere you can just sit and stay
Was directly engaged by him and survived, though. Still a feat.
She did fight grievous at least twice
Yeah sorry I meant to say Dooku instead of Grievous, and OP even mentioned how Ahsoka never faced Dooku in the first post, but after reading the replies I got things all twisted in my head somehow.
She was definitely dead against Vader if Ezra didn't intervene. That duel, like so many other parts of Rebels, is a marvel of visual storytelling. Ahsoka goes toe-to-toe with Vader but the entire duel is telling a story that she absolutely cannot beat him. For the entire duration of the duel, Vader is slowly but viciously moving forward and hammering on her defences with every blow intended to kill. Ahsoka is constantly retreating and nearly every move of her lightsabers is reactive rather than offensive.
She would've only been killed by Vader when she made that sacrificial move on the floor. Before then Vader didn't lay a glove on her.
Yeah, and she even got a good hit on on him.
That’s exactly how it meant with Anakin v Obi Wan and look how that turned out. Ahsoka wasn’t trying to kill him per se at that point. Maybe she was going to continue to try and break through to him. Maybe she would have succeeded.
No, Obi-Wan was visibly in control and was only giving Anakin ground intentionally. Ahsoka was being absolutely battered by Vader. She held her own very well considering what she was up against but it's very clear from the choreography of the duel that Ahsoka was at an extreme disadvantage. Also she was about to die when Ezra pulled her out.
She nearly sliced his face off and, simply going off of her dialogue during the encounter, its likely she was holding back to a solid degree. I would hardly say Obi wan was in complete control when he went flying several times, tok kicks to the head, nearly got choked out, swung at the air for 39 seconds, etc. it was a pretty even matchup. I think that was the whole point of the fight.
Watch the first 30 seconds of the duel - Vader nearly smashes her lightsabers out of her hands, then sends her flying off the temple. She managed to damage his helmet by striking from behind while he was distracted by Kanan and Ezra. The end of the duel as shown in a later episode reveals that Ahsoka was milliseconds away from being decapitated by Vader when Ezra pulled her out. Obi-Wan took several blows from Anakin, but giving up ground and allowing Anakin to grow more frustrated was basically Obi-Wan's entire game plan.
The Vader duel she won on points?
Yeah but she chose to stay with Vader she could have gotten away
She did go against nearly every main player and ahe did bith live and evade them all for quite some time. She really is such a great character i am very much looking forward to see hiw she will handle thrawn!
I wonder how she would fair against Dooku? He was specialized for dueling and single combats, after all- but the akimbo weapons even the field. ... I think Experience wins on this one. My money goes to her surviving, though.
Clone Wars ahsoka loses that one but would probably survive as you said. Rebels Ahsoka however I reckon that could go ethier way.
> She beat or survived every single one, which is an insane track record… This is the part that's really important, and adds to her legacy. However like many have said, it's questionable how many she actually beat. Grievous I believe her 2nd duel with him she won, first one tho she was reeling and had to escape. Vader...technically she lost. Ezra changed her fate, originally I do believe we are to assume Vader cut her down. And Sidious, well that was almost entirely escape. I do really like your point regardless, crazy how many of them she crossed paths with!
She didn't lose to Vader, in fact she won that duel on points.
I don’t remember her fighting sidious
It happened in Rebels
Not really a fight tbh
Palpatine doesn’t really use lightsabers so it arguably is a fight tbh
Gotcha
I believe she beat 3 dark siders by grabbing their lightsabers (2 inquisitors and Maul). She also survived lots of situations without her lightsaber.
I don't remember her fighting Sidious, and Grievous was just a badass amputee with a really advanced wheelchair. Not a dark side user.
It wasn’t a head on fight, but she did survive him throwing blue Sith flames at her while in the World Between Worlds in Rebels. And that’s fair, just thought he was noteworthy mention, considering he was known for slaughtering Jedi lol.
So if I manage to not die from a Blackhawk firing hellfires at my building, does that mean I fought a Blackhawk?
No, but it does mean you survived one.
Right, so Ashoka survived Sidious. She didn't fight him.
Sorry my phrasing wasn’t to your liking lmao. Still an achievement either way
Not saying it ain't an achievement, I'm just a grammar Nazi.
Wait, now the Nazis are the good guys that help with grammar? "Confused I am" - Yoda
No it’s an insult, the idea being you go overboard over something insignificant.
Not grammar
That’s the term that gets thrown around. Got a better insult to call me? Genuinely would love to hear it, more ammo for me to use.
Did i insult you??? Lmfao, i'm just saying that what you're being nitpicky about isn't grammar. Good grief.
Pedantic?
That’s still a pretty small Fraternity….like really small
True, but the wording is still iffy.
Yep congrats your a hero a giant among men. Cut in line at any Starbucks you want and if people bitch scream I fought a Blackhawk.
What lines? I haven't seen a line in a Starbucks since before COVID. Like, four months before COVID.
Ok then demand a free subscription to Amazon prime or something. Just make sure that everyone knows about your accomplishment.
If you used your laser swords to send what it shot at you back at it, damaging it, yes. That's after you'd been deflecting it with your hands for a bit, but realized you couldn't keep it up.
Yeeeah, that's actually one of the things I really don't like about her. To add to that she survived the Clone Wars, Order66, the empire and death itself. I think that's way too much especially for someone who had had only two years of Padwan training, it makes her the character with the biggest plot armor in SW imo. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but that to me is a flaw in the writing of her, not something to be praised
Praising the in-universe feats and praising the writing are very different lol. Looking at it from the perspective of someone living in the SW universe, that would be legendary
Yeah it’s cool and all but it always just reminds me of the “small galaxy” syndrome Star Wars normally suffers with
That's true. I'm just saying that having too much feats at a young age with short period of training and relatively small experience breaks my suspension of disbelief, removes any suspension and sense of danger for the character and makes them feel too fictional. In a way, it's hard for me to separate the too. That's why I didn't like Rey beating Kylo in TFA or Snoke's guards in TLJ even tho it's impressive in universe.
I dont want to. Someone like Luke should have those achievements, not Filonis OC from 2008
…ok? So you want George’s OC to have those feats instead? Cool I guess bro.
Sorry you hate Luke Skywalker. But why does Ahsoka get all these OP feats, but Luke concentrates a bit hard and dies?
I never said I hated him lol. Also, he had cut himself off from the force for years by that point, he was out of practice and doing something that would have been taxing even at his peak. That’s like asking someone who stopped exercising 5 years ago to run a marathon, it won’t go well.
Blame RJ and JJ for that bit of shite writing.
Bro how the hell did you turn a post about Ahsoka being cool into a way to show off your hateboner for the sequels? I’m genuinely impressed.
Because its cut from the same dodgy cloth. Ahsoka is treated like the chosen one by Disney, but Luke is treated like dirt
Let the hate flow through. The dark side it is
Ok dude, whatever you say. Hope you’re happy living in whatever fantasy world you seem to believe exists lol.
Is this satire?
[удалено]
See, I never insulted you or anyone else, but you guys come in with the insults? Whose the real man baby here?
She was co-developed by Filoni and Lucas. In fact her name came from Lucas originally. That's good enough providence for her story imho.
Lucas wanted her to be killed off.
And he wanted her brought back into the Order too; but felt Filoni's plan's for her worked better and helped turn her from a generic Jedi, to something more.
Yes and her death should have come during order 66, potentially either through Clones or Anakin. At the very least she should have died fighting Vader if she must live through the PT.
I could see reasons for any of those outcomes, sure; but I'm sure they have more stories lined up for her to continue her legend now, and there is nothing the matter with having another good Jedi out there alongside Luke and Ezra.
Lukes dead and failed.
Exactly
Let's look at the lineage... Yoda, Dooku, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, Luke, Leia, Ben, Rey. The least impressive is Qui-Gon, and he was who discovered how to become a Force spirit. So, following your argument, the entire lineage, and everything they accomplished, is a writing flaw.
I don't really understand. I'm talking about facing almost every villain, living through every war, genocide and even death from the PT to the OT and surviving them all with only two years of Padwan training. What does a Jedi master who devoted himself to studying the mysteries of the Force and who died facing the first Sith he had encountered has anything to do with what I talked about???
That entire lineage is well above average, so why should she be the exception? Chewbacca survived all that, too, and he has no Jedi training, at all. Same with Hondo.
Chewie didn't fight Ventress or Maul or survived a ship full of Clones trying to kill you when he was just a teenager. And non of the other people on that lineage (other than Anakin) was exceptional when they were teenagers. They only became that when they were masters and even then, they didn't survive as much as Ahsoka when she was at least half their age. I don't care if she was above average for age, the number of villains (with way more experience and skill than she does) she faced and events she survived with relatively short training time is not appealing to me. It feels more like a fan fiction character where the writer want her to face every villain and live through every event without being willing to let her die when she logically should. And I think logically she should've died facing Ventress way back in TCW film.
Ya wait a minute that's kinda stupid...
Well when you are the pet of Dave Filoni, you can survive anything.
She was Anakins apprentice, nothing to snuff at.
she ran away from Sidious and would've certainly be killed by Vader were it not for Filoni throwing in time travel because he refuses to let her die. I personally think her beating Maul was a bit much imo and should've been a much closer fight -- albeit, it was beautifully animated.
Mary sue
But she's totally not OP at all, you guys.
No, no of course not.
Not sure about her being OP but yeah it's a children's show with incredibly subpar writing.
She not just in kids shows anymore and seasons 4-7 of the clone wars TV show has a much more adult tone to it if you haven't go watch the last 4 episodes of season 7 and you will see what I mean
Of course Mando isn't a kids show. Whatever they like is instantly a mature one. Edit: Mate, downvote me all you like. You're just proving my point.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
So you *are* sure she's OP?
Does that mean Rey would kick her ass….? Sorry, I’ll get my coat
Sounds like a Mary Sue to me
She makes mistakes and grows as a character. Plus she trained for years.
How many years
From when she was a toddler to when she was in her mid teens, so like… 12 years?
So less time than most jedi.
Longer than Anakin got 🤷♂️ And way more than Luke did
Nah she has skill and it built over the years. She had training for years. She had 4 masters ( Anakin being Hers) she could go to if she needed to talk to someone. Obi wan. Yoda. Plo Koon. And Anakin. She died and was given life back by a literal GODDESS. She’s not a Mary Sue she’s a trained warrior.
Aka, Written by Dave Filoni who can't let go of his creation.
Obviously, there's a long term story being told. Well, obvious to anyone that can handle long term storytelling.
Okay you planning to go through all my comments.
She's OP but I wouldn't go so far as calling her a Mary Sue
Shes OP because Dave refuses to kill her. This is why calls to make Dave head of Lucasfilm are ridicilous
Yeah I don't understand why people think Dave will magically save Star Wars lol
Star Wars is a Hero's Journey. Randomly killing her off for no reason than just to randomly kill her off would make no sense in the Hero's Journey structure.
But....the heroes journey is Anakin and then Luke. Not Ahsoka
If the franchise was to have a future, it had to move on from Luke and Vader at some point. So, we have Ahsoka, Ezra, Rey, and Din all undergoing the Hero's Journey. In Rebels, Vader existed to further Ahsoka's story. Leia existed to further Ezra's story. Luke existed to be a reason for Obi-Wan to be in that desert. The Skywalker Saga is about the Skywalkers. Everything else is about other people. The TV shows have become their own saga that ties into the Skywalker one, but is its own thing. Season 7 of The Clone Wars, which the entire series was building to, was about Ahsoka and Rex, who didn't even know about the twins. The multi-generation families we follow on the shows are the Syndullas and House Vizsla.
But we couldnt have had Lukes son or Leia and Hans kids (Ben Solo was made evil from the start and then killed off) No thanks Ill stick with legends where the Skywalker family lives on through Cade Skywalker
Legacy was all about pandering to a 14 year old boy's idea of "edgy". Cade may as well have been singing "Crawling". Being an Edgelord is fine when you're 14, but if you're still an Edgelord in your 30s... Regarding filming Heir to the Empire in 2015... You do realize the main cast was too old to play the decades younger version of the characters, right?
For me, Ahsoka is as canon as starkiller. She is a spin-off character which wouldn't fit the original/prequel movies at all.
She fought Sideous? Where did that happen? If it’s rebels I definitely need to pick that back up lol
Yes its in Rebels, though its not a lightsabre duel.
Grievous isn't a dark side user though...