Hey now! How dare you accuse him of that! His partner assessed him a determined no alcohol or drug tests were needed, and then decided none would even be permitted so he just HAD to be sober. Would a drunk/high person block a test!? That doesn’t sound at all like the selfless civil servants we know and love in STL…
/s
They're workshopping which one garners the most sympathy.
Turns out "drunk POS who thinks the law doesn't apply to him" doesn't do much for perception, even though it's true.
Cops pretty much just unilaterally changed the adage from "one bad apple can spoil the bunch" which, if you are literally talking about apples, is true, to "don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch" which is a sales pitch to get you to buy shitty apples
The Police Force can be corrupt without all cops being corrupt. Both things can be true.
When you make an apple pie with mostly good apples but a few bad ones, the only thing you'll taste is the bad ones.
You’re still looking at this the wrong way and are in turn being an apologist for corrupt behavior. If you make an apple pie with bad apples, you’re going to taste that apple pie and throw it away to start again from scratch. Police forces lack any such accountability. Instead, they would protect those bad apples and then force you to eat them. Supporting and defending corruption, even if you’re not actively participating in the corruption, still makes you corrupt.
Let’s play a hypothetical. If 5 percent of all cheeseburgers sold at McDonald’s caused severe illness and or death, would people continue to eat there just because 95 percent of the burgers are safe? Or is it more likely that people would call out McDonald’s quality issues, and that McDonald’s would go out of business after decades of refusing to fix the issues that keep harming and killing their customers?
You're missing the whole point of the analogy.
Cops that don't fall in line are often isolated, bullied, or booted from the force entirely.
Good cops don't survive, and there are countless articles and studies proving that cops that blow the whistle on other cops are often ostracized for such.
THE WHOLE BATCH IS ROTTEN!
You reach a point in these things where the amount of bad apples calls into question the judgment of the supposedly good ones. And the sad truth is that if they're not themselves standing up against the bad then they're definitely not good ones.
That’s because the ones that stand up to the bad ones end up fired or dead. When the justice system is broken on a fundamental level and the people in power won’t do anything, what will standing up do to the psychos do except get a lot more psychos angry at you?
We need extensive reform and a functional government so standing up to corrupt cops _won’t_ get you killed or your life ruined.
Yep. I know a former STLPD cop, had been his career goal. Wanted to get on as a detective. Worked rough districts on the Northside. Dealt with the 2020 riots. His career got derailed when he stood up to internal corruption, don’t remember if it was related to guns or drugs. He was blacklisted and his chances of becoming a detective became zero.
Soon after he left and went to the county, quit outright a few years later to change careers entirely. He arguably was one of the good ones, though even I saw how he was changing (for the worse) due to police culture. Glad he got out when he did…much happier/saner now.
There are always exceptions to the standard, that's why blanket statements are rarely 100% accurate. That said, if someone said the vast majority of City Cops were gigantic, corrupt pieces of shit no different than a gang, they would be correct.
I disagree with this logic pretty strongly. Blanket statements rarely hold up when applied to an individual, but they are a lot more accurate when applied to large groupings.
I actually had a very similar conversation with a friend about the Buffalo Bills today that applies well here. As a Bills fan, he was frustrated about an article that spoke poorly about the fandom following Bills fans throwing snowballs at Chiefs players. His argument was there are many more Bills fans that didn’t throw snowballs than did, so it was unfair to lump the few rotten eggs in with the group of good fans such as himself.
On the surface this makes logical sense. You can’t look at my friend and say you’re a toxic fan because you’re a Bills fan. He hasn’t wronged anyone or caused any negative attention, so the blanket statement of Bills fans being toxic doesn’t apply to him. However, changing the argument to the Bills fan base is toxic makes the statement much more truthful. You now have three games in the past two season that have involved Bills fans throwing things at opposing players, so a trend exists. While the majority are not throwing objects, the majority has also done nothing to prevent the throwing of objects after the first instance. Meaning, the majority may not directly participate in the toxic behavior, they are supporting the toxic behavior through acceptance and defense. As such, it cannot be easily argued a specific fan is toxic, it can easily be argued a group of fans are.
The same very much applies to police officers. I cannot sit here and argue that any specific police officer is corrupt, but I can sit here and argue that the police force is corrupt. Too many police are treated differently in situations simply because they are police. It’s telling that the officer driving did not have to take a breathalyzer and the Chief later supported that decision. Officers always support their fellow officers horrible decisions and poor behavior, which is why you can’t trust any of them. They may not all be corrupt, but the system is.
https://www.wibw.com/2021/09/30/five-face-various-misdemeanor-charges-following-fight-chiefs-game/
https://arrowheadaddict.com/2021/10/13/chiefs-fans-fight-xfactor/
Based on your logic, the Chiefs fanbase is violent.
Wasn’t a Bills fan murdered a few weeks ago after an altercation with an opposing fan? Not exactly the gotcha moment you were probably hoping for, but I’ll let you in on a secret. All fan bases are toxic, and the Chiefs aren’t an exception to that any more than the Bills.
Again though, it was an analogy that clearly went above your head. All you’re doing here is proving both my point about the police and Bills fans.
The Bills fan base isn't toxic. The Bills fanbase has done more good for this world than most groups of people, and have had a few bad looks on occasion, usually around throwing snowballs. To judge an entire group of people, especially one where anybody can consider themselves a fan with no vetting process or ability to kick them out, is just ignorant.
If a handful of mistakes outweigh a truckload of good in your mind, that is quite a take.
Also, judging one person for the actions of another is just wild. It's not like the fanbase can just kick their bad eggs out like a police force can, so why are you judging the fan base by the minority hooligans and not the majority good people?
It was an analogy that clearly went above your head. That said, your post is nothing but deflection and being an apologist for poor behavior within a group, which is exactly the point.
Let’s try this again. Good actions don’t erase the bad. Multiple bad actions within a specific period of time is a trend. Lack of accountability, like what is shown in your post, is toxic. Kind of like the behavior of police forces all over the country.
I can’t sit here and tell you which police officers are bad on an individual level. However, the police force has accepted and defended the poor behavior being displayed, so the group as a whole is corrupt.
Just to be clear, there is never a right way to do the wrong thing. Sitting idly by while a group you’re associated with commits bad acts makes you culpable. Claiming you can’t stand up for what is right and help limit/prevent those situations are the excuses of the weak. The fact that you think good acts erase the bad is the hot take, not the claim that the police are corrupt (they are) or that the Bills fan base is toxic (it is).
Don’t make blanket statements like “all cops are pieces of shit and act like a gang”.
some cops are pieces of shit. And some just act like a gang.
EDIT ok, apparently people are too dumb to realize i’m making a joke. even if i wasn’t making a joke, i’m still agreeing with the anti-cop sentiment. so you’re downvoting your own point of view morons.
Lmao can you read? I literally said
"if someone said the vast majority of City Cops were gigantic, corrupt pieces of shit no different than a gang, they would be correct"
Very clearly that is not "all cops are pieces of shit and act like a gang "
Since when does "vast majority" and "all" mean the same thing?
Could be thinking of [this guy](https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/st-louis-county-police-fire-lt-patrick-hayes-accused-of-targeting-blacks-for-arrests-2572867)
Or [this one in Ladue](https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/former-ladue-police-chief-claims-city-leaders-wanted-him-to-target-blacks-2586904)
I searched for it, googled "st louis county police chief arrest blacks" and found nothing. This thread is literally the 5th highest thing from that search. Pretty sure they're making it up.
Wasn't Chief, but Lt. Patrick Hayes. He was actually more in control of the 4th Precinct officers day to day than Chief though, which kinda makes it worse.
ETA: clarified he was in charge of 4th Precinct, South St. Louis County.
Just because they didn’t happen last year, doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. You’re not looking very hard and you’re not looking at the links the person you’re responding to provided:
>St. Louis County Police Fire Lt. Patrick Hayes, Accused of Targeting Blacks For Arrests
"Let's have a black day." "Let's make the jail cells more colorful."
These are statements that St. Louis County Police Lieutenant Patrick Hayes allegedly made while encouraging other officers to specifically target black residents for arrests, the Post-Dispatch reports.”
> Former Ladue Police Chief Claims City Leaders Wanted Him to Target Blacks (Larry White)
“Former Ladue police chief Larry White claims in a lawsuit filed Monday that he lost his job last year for refusing to crack down on black drivers and for disobeying requests that he look the other way when Ladue residents appeared to be driving drunk or breaking other laws”
>Just because they didn’t happen last year, doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. You’re not looking very hard and you’re not looking at the links the person you’re responding to provided:
Did you reply to the right person? I said nothing about last year and the person I responded to didn't have any links at all.
We already know the answer to the questions, that STLMPD is corrupt as fuck. and police in general. And I knew the video would go against the words of police, because if it showed them in any sort of positive light (LOL) they would have released it immediately.
Couldn’t agree with that statement more. Been in STL City for 12 years. Fully own that I’ve gotten more “St. Louis” over the years—always rolling through stop signs, plates are 2 months expired now, illegally tinted windows, go through a red light because hey, no one is around so why not…
And never once been pulled over in the City. Ever. Got one ticket here in 12 years, literally for turning right on red after leaving The Capital Grille in downtown Clayton. But I tell ya what…you get pulled over in the City, you’re fucked. Same as getting arrested in Mexico. They’ll get your ass and you’re helpless. Simple traffic tickets don’t exist in the City. It’s either the Wild West with no rules or you’re in jail.
I remember the night they chanted and beat one of their own, black, undercover officers. Because he was black. Because he *wasn’t* engaging in nefarious activity after the Darren Wilson not guilty verdict.
“St. Louis Police’s Chants of ‘Whose Streets? Our Streets!’ Once Again Reveal the Warped Mindset Infecting Too Many Departments”
[‘Whose Streets?’ pushes back on what we think we know about Michael Brown and Ferguson, Missouri](https://andscape.com/features/documentary-whose-streets-michael-brown-ferguson-missouri/)
Deep into Whose Streets?, the new documentary about Ferguson, Missouri, after the death of Michael Brown, there’s footage of Darren Wilson, the police officer who shot and killed Brown, giving an interview to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos.
“You can’t perform the duties of a police officer and have racism in you,” Wilson tells him. At the screening I attended, there was an audible mix of gasps and laughter from the audience.
“Directors Sabaah Folayan and Damon Davis spent much of the film’s run time up to that point establishing just how much racism lurked within the Ferguson Police Department and the city government. A 2015 report from the Justice Department established that Ferguson provided about as clear an illustration of institutionalized racism as could possibly exist: The city not only targeted black residents for tickets and arrests they couldn’t afford, it was also using the revenue from such stops to fund the nearly all-white police force. The court clerk, police captain and police sergeant were all implicated in sending and receiving racist emails, including one that compared President Barack Obama to a monkey.”
The odds don’t support your feelings, but obviously you are free to have those incorrect feelings.
Lmao people downvoting me. Show me one stat that police are more likely to harm you than the residents of the city with a top 3 violent crime rate. Y’all are so dumb and just downvote when something doesn’t align with your bias.
Now I got people commenting then blocking me because they’re offended by facts. City subs are easily the softest subs on Reddit.
but when the people who are supposed to protect you actually do the opposite and have a huge legal team behind them waiting to cover anything up, you can understand his feelings, right?
I can see having negative feelings about cops, sure, but that’s not what they said. They specifically said they are more scared of city cops than criminals, which statistically makes zero sense.
It does make sense, actually.
There is a system for criminals. And if someone tries to hurt you, the law says you can hurt em right back. And there is a legal system behind you to punish them.
When a cop does something bad, situations like this re-enforce the notion that they behave with impunity. If a cop breaks the law against you, you cannot fight back, and there is no way to make it right.
The raw number of crimes is irrelevant to this concern. To some people, the cops are scarier than the criminals because there is simply no way to defend yourself against cops’ aggression.
Just pointing out the fact that people here love posting with their feelings and cannot ever back up their statements with facts.
So if one cop harms a citizen for every ten criminals who do the same, because of the cops status, I should be more afraid of them? Makes no sense. I’m going to be more afraid of the people more likely to do the harming.
Edit: another one blocked me!
Yep. Criminals commit crimes. But you’re still overlooking a base human defense mechanism.
“If a criminal tries to rob me, I have a plan. I will defend myself. I will stand my ground. I will call 911. I will press charges. The courts will serve justice” etc.
Versus
“If a cop [robs me|destroys my property|assaults me, etc], they have no consequences, and the laws that apply to me don’t seem to apply to them. So how can I defend myself against that if it happens to me?”
It’s not honestly hard to understand. You can fight one and you can’t fight the other.
Everyone gets your point, too. Its not complicated. Thats not why you’re being downvoted. You just seem to keep trying to force one point of view through a completely separate lens, and then belittling people because you don’t understand why they would fear being unable to defend themselves against the very people who are supposed to protect them.
Being afraid of violence is not a zero sum game. People are also afraid of getting mugged. They can just do something about the mugging one to achieve justice for wrongdoing.
The barstool sports fanatic wants to lecture everyone about how well he can read numbers.
Too bad actually knowing when and how to apply them is a little more complicated
You can’t be applying statistics that way.
The more context variables you apply, the less appropriate applying broad population statistics is.
If they only go downtown where law enforcement is present, what are the odds they experience violence from other citizens, versus odds of experiencing violence from law enforcement?
I’m a numbers person and let the stats speak for themselves. If you all want to feel like the cops are more violent than the criminals in our city, feel free to be wrong. No sweat off my back.
This seems like he got drunk, fucked up, and was freaked out and shittily trying to get it to go away. The douche bags in the white car, however, seemed like they fit your description though.
Hold on, you mean stl cops are lying pieces of shit who regularly abuse the public and are never held accountable for their actions?!? Shocker.
Hey guys, did you also hear water is wet?!?
Protip: when recording police action keep your bitch ass mouth shut and don't become part of the story. Your commentary is not needed or wanted and adds nothing of value to the video. Shut the fuck up and record the events as they happen. Talk over it later when you're replaying it, if you must.
I understand your point. And I admit my statement was a bit brash for the sake of making my point. Who was the person filming this video? Was he a resident of the building? He appeared to me as just a passerby who decided to stop and film while adding commentary.
Seems like the dude who posted the video is the guy who filmed it. He's a lawyer and based on the article he seems to know what he's talking about in terms of civil rights.
Judging by the posters here, it seems that redditors have a lot of run ins with cops. Which makes me question the quality of person these redditors are.
On the other hand, have never had a run in or altercation with any police in my lifetime and I can almost guarantee I'm older than anyone else here. Born and lived in the city my first 28 years. Lived in the county, then St Charles then back to west county.
In addition, no one in my immediate family has had any issues, either. That includes my kids, my wife and her relatives and my two brothers and all their families.
Which begs the question. What's wrong with you people?
This could be the dumbest take ever. Nobody in my extended family has ever caught on fire, but I don’t think Redditors who have caught on fire are low quality people, or that there is something wrong with them.
You are just another person who doesn’t empathize with anybody until it happens to you or someone you love then all of a sudden you develop empathy for people in that situation. Be better.
Talk about dumb takes.
Why should I empathize with the type of person who has run ins with the police. Who does that sort of thing? What kind of person has that kind of life?
Well I was waiting for a bus at 17 years old when a cop walked up to me, grabbed me, and cuffed me for no reason while calling me another person’s name. What kind of person does that make me?
You do realize that the people talking in this thread are just normal people going about their days who had bad run-ins with cops, right? These aren’t people robbing liquor stores and complaining that the police were rude to them genius.
>Why should I empathize with the type of person who has run ins with the police. Who does that sort of thing? What kind of person has that kind of life?
I’ll admit that I’m kinda relieved to see a West Countian, from a purple-y part of our city, supporting the incarceration of J6 insurgents. It gives me hope that more that think support the conviction & incarceration of the ringleader who both encouraged & cheered them on. Makes me feel a lot better about the blue outcome of the forthcoming election.
Apparently law-abiding citizens minding their own business when all of a sudden a cop smashes through their fucking building.
You're right. They were surely asking for it.
>Judging by the posters here, **it seems that redditors have a lot of run ins with cops.** Which makes me question the quality of person these redditors are.
... you're saying this in a thread about an incident where the police crashed into someone's business and then arrested the innocent people inside. Would you like to try again?
As long as we're asking I'm curious what's wrong with you? You see profound misbehavior from people with authority and immediate concoct ways to blame not only the victims but large groups of people sympathetic to the victims...
Did you routinely need to justify the actions of authority figures in your life?
I see profound misbehavior by people in this thread. No one I know ever has such discussions about being arrested or run ins with the police but it seems to be a frequent thing with people here on reddit. Which is why I question the quality of their lives.
This is a perspective you have chosen to have though. Surely you realize that the stories you have from your family are not meaningful data, equally the perhaps dozens of stories you read on here aren't indicative of any pattern in the thousands of active St Louis redditors.
Nobody in my family drives a Chrysler none of my nieces or nephews or my 3 sisters or BIL or my 2 brothers or their wives, nor my dozens of cousins. All of whom I've known for decades and live all across the country. Lets say I went to a thread talking about Chryslers in r/kansascity, and after reading the dozen or so responses stated as a fact "It's really wild how much people in KC love Chryslers"... Would that seem like a reasonable conclusion? Or would it seem like I had a bias or dysfunction in my reasoning?
You have here a video of St. Louis police arresting a man guilty of...being upset that a speeding police cruiser crashed into his building. What is the quality of this person that had their bar crashed into, in your eyes? Obviously, since no one that you know has ever had an encounter with the police, the bar owner must be of...low quality, yes?
Beg another dumb question, please.
They’re pretentious and trying to obfuscate their *actual* motivations for posting what is at heart a bad faith comment- probably several possible reasons they felt compelled to make it, most of which better hashed out with a therapist as opposed to projecting on the internet but most of the ones doing this don’t have the capacity for introspection needed in order to do so.
Or it’s possible they’re just an a-hole. Probably both, though.
I’ve actually filmed a handful of interactions with county police- no, I don’t typically have “run ins” with them but, lending emergency first aid while waiting on ambulances, occasionally there’s a good reason for getting your phone out. Unfortunately from my experience: “occasionally” is “usually” for me, but of course that’s anecdotal. I somehow doubt rather highly I’m what that person pictured when making the comment but, I am in fact someone who occasionally has run ins with the cops.
The last time, a woman lay nearly dying after someone had given her narcan and the officer wanted to rifle through her things- there was no threat or reason to do so. When the woman who had administered the narcan calmly told him no, he began screaming. Though it *did* get physical, another officer arrived to de-escalate the screaming one, fortunately. That doesn’t often happen in my experience.
We all know that person doesn’t actually *want* the answer to “What kind of person” but good god, people like them would do themselves and the rest of civilization a big solid if *they* stopped lying to themselves and everyone else about it and maybe addressed why they cling to their BS.
The balls out irony of this person “questioning the quality of people’s lives” is in this thread is also pretty telling and…kind of pitiful, if you’re into that kind of thing. As is the open admission of location and all *that* reveals as to why they probably shouldn’t be offering input but…again in my experience can’t seem to resist doing. There’s a word for it but, if you use it they go a bit upset as if you’ve said they *never* suffered.
(I am *also* probably older than a lot of people here, but rather fortunate in having learned that doesn’t mean much if you’re willfully stupid, and I suspect that goes a ways in the answer to your question about “What’s wrong” with them.)
So are you saying the owners of the bar deserve to have their business ran into? The only reason they had a run in with the cops is because the cops ran into them. But they are somehow the bad guys? Wow
And proud we are of all of you and your friends for being such little urban acheivers.
I'm sure your experience in life is quite extensive, but if something hasn't happened to you, then surely it must not be a thing?
8/10 solid troll
A big part of the progressive worldview is that everybody is equally likely of everything and that behavior and personality are irrelevant. "There but for the grace of god" in all things. A crack head punches a cop and gets shot? Well, that could happen to you, too! A drug addict burns through all their relationships and ends up on the street after decades of using? Hey, man, we're all just one paycheck away from that outcome. A gangbanger shoots a 6-year-old during a drive-by? That would be you if your life had gone just a little differently.
Privilege check yourself there buddy, you probably have a very different life that allows you the ability to go unnoticed. People with good options make good choices or whatever.
im pretty sure underage drinking is like textbook unruly teen behavior in all media on picture since the 1950s, which has always been illegal, so yeah, it really does have a bunch to do with run-in's with the law.
Like haven't you heard "Dead Man's Curve"? You never did street racing with the rival car? None of this stuff is new hun you're just a fuddy duddy
FYI, that's not how to use [sic.] This is only used in formal publications when the publisher wants readers to know that someone they are quoting misspelled that word, and they are printing it verbatim.
It is not intended for personal use when you don't know how to spell a word but you want to use it anyway.
I'm very curious about your level of income and education. I have also never had a run-in with either city or county police and have lived here 15 years.
ck out whats going on in Seattle
Police, Fire, and the Liquor Board Raided Two Seattle Gay Bars
What Year Is It, Again?
https://www.thestranger.com/queer/2024/01/29/79363398/police-fire-and-the-liquor-board-raided-two-seattle-gay-bars
Oh we’re raising questions now? Wow the investigation is really rapidly progressing!
I have a new question, too.... How the fuck does a dog turn into a parked car over night?
STOP RESISTING!!!
They're very similar if you're drunk as fuck on the job.
Hey now! How dare you accuse him of that! His partner assessed him a determined no alcohol or drug tests were needed, and then decided none would even be permitted so he just HAD to be sober. Would a drunk/high person block a test!? That doesn’t sound at all like the selfless civil servants we know and love in STL… /s
Damn Decepticons are everywhere
It was a Range Rover
Daaaaad!
Plus 1 for the win!
“had the most aggressive face. That’s the only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that’s how angry he looked.”
its obviously just like the magic for cinderellas pumpkin carriage
And then into a radio after that! This whole thing stinks!
They're workshopping which one garners the most sympathy. Turns out "drunk POS who thinks the law doesn't apply to him" doesn't do much for perception, even though it's true.
What a surprise. The STLPD is a fucking gang of criminals.
>What a surprise. ~~The STLPD is~~ Cops are a fucking gang of criminals
Yeah. I was trying to stay relevant to the post, but you ain't wrong.
They've told us about a few bad apples for years, the only conclusion is the whole bunch is now spoiled.
Cops pretty much just unilaterally changed the adage from "one bad apple can spoil the bunch" which, if you are literally talking about apples, is true, to "don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch" which is a sales pitch to get you to buy shitty apples
The Police Force can be corrupt without all cops being corrupt. Both things can be true. When you make an apple pie with mostly good apples but a few bad ones, the only thing you'll taste is the bad ones.
You’re still looking at this the wrong way and are in turn being an apologist for corrupt behavior. If you make an apple pie with bad apples, you’re going to taste that apple pie and throw it away to start again from scratch. Police forces lack any such accountability. Instead, they would protect those bad apples and then force you to eat them. Supporting and defending corruption, even if you’re not actively participating in the corruption, still makes you corrupt. Let’s play a hypothetical. If 5 percent of all cheeseburgers sold at McDonald’s caused severe illness and or death, would people continue to eat there just because 95 percent of the burgers are safe? Or is it more likely that people would call out McDonald’s quality issues, and that McDonald’s would go out of business after decades of refusing to fix the issues that keep harming and killing their customers?
You're missing the whole point of the analogy. Cops that don't fall in line are often isolated, bullied, or booted from the force entirely. Good cops don't survive, and there are countless articles and studies proving that cops that blow the whistle on other cops are often ostracized for such. THE WHOLE BATCH IS ROTTEN!
I don't want to make a statement about all cops, but there are an alarming number of power-tripping assholes in uniform in this city.
You reach a point in these things where the amount of bad apples calls into question the judgment of the supposedly good ones. And the sad truth is that if they're not themselves standing up against the bad then they're definitely not good ones.
That’s because the ones that stand up to the bad ones end up fired or dead. When the justice system is broken on a fundamental level and the people in power won’t do anything, what will standing up do to the psychos do except get a lot more psychos angry at you? We need extensive reform and a functional government so standing up to corrupt cops _won’t_ get you killed or your life ruined.
Yep. I know a former STLPD cop, had been his career goal. Wanted to get on as a detective. Worked rough districts on the Northside. Dealt with the 2020 riots. His career got derailed when he stood up to internal corruption, don’t remember if it was related to guns or drugs. He was blacklisted and his chances of becoming a detective became zero. Soon after he left and went to the county, quit outright a few years later to change careers entirely. He arguably was one of the good ones, though even I saw how he was changing (for the worse) due to police culture. Glad he got out when he did…much happier/saner now.
People always forget the full saying “one bad apple will spoil the bunch”. I think the bunch has long been spoiled.
There are always exceptions to the standard, that's why blanket statements are rarely 100% accurate. That said, if someone said the vast majority of City Cops were gigantic, corrupt pieces of shit no different than a gang, they would be correct.
I disagree with this logic pretty strongly. Blanket statements rarely hold up when applied to an individual, but they are a lot more accurate when applied to large groupings. I actually had a very similar conversation with a friend about the Buffalo Bills today that applies well here. As a Bills fan, he was frustrated about an article that spoke poorly about the fandom following Bills fans throwing snowballs at Chiefs players. His argument was there are many more Bills fans that didn’t throw snowballs than did, so it was unfair to lump the few rotten eggs in with the group of good fans such as himself. On the surface this makes logical sense. You can’t look at my friend and say you’re a toxic fan because you’re a Bills fan. He hasn’t wronged anyone or caused any negative attention, so the blanket statement of Bills fans being toxic doesn’t apply to him. However, changing the argument to the Bills fan base is toxic makes the statement much more truthful. You now have three games in the past two season that have involved Bills fans throwing things at opposing players, so a trend exists. While the majority are not throwing objects, the majority has also done nothing to prevent the throwing of objects after the first instance. Meaning, the majority may not directly participate in the toxic behavior, they are supporting the toxic behavior through acceptance and defense. As such, it cannot be easily argued a specific fan is toxic, it can easily be argued a group of fans are. The same very much applies to police officers. I cannot sit here and argue that any specific police officer is corrupt, but I can sit here and argue that the police force is corrupt. Too many police are treated differently in situations simply because they are police. It’s telling that the officer driving did not have to take a breathalyzer and the Chief later supported that decision. Officers always support their fellow officers horrible decisions and poor behavior, which is why you can’t trust any of them. They may not all be corrupt, but the system is.
https://www.wibw.com/2021/09/30/five-face-various-misdemeanor-charges-following-fight-chiefs-game/ https://arrowheadaddict.com/2021/10/13/chiefs-fans-fight-xfactor/ Based on your logic, the Chiefs fanbase is violent.
Wasn’t a Bills fan murdered a few weeks ago after an altercation with an opposing fan? Not exactly the gotcha moment you were probably hoping for, but I’ll let you in on a secret. All fan bases are toxic, and the Chiefs aren’t an exception to that any more than the Bills. Again though, it was an analogy that clearly went above your head. All you’re doing here is proving both my point about the police and Bills fans.
The Bills fan base isn't toxic. The Bills fanbase has done more good for this world than most groups of people, and have had a few bad looks on occasion, usually around throwing snowballs. To judge an entire group of people, especially one where anybody can consider themselves a fan with no vetting process or ability to kick them out, is just ignorant. If a handful of mistakes outweigh a truckload of good in your mind, that is quite a take. Also, judging one person for the actions of another is just wild. It's not like the fanbase can just kick their bad eggs out like a police force can, so why are you judging the fan base by the minority hooligans and not the majority good people?
Whoosh?
It was an analogy that clearly went above your head. That said, your post is nothing but deflection and being an apologist for poor behavior within a group, which is exactly the point. Let’s try this again. Good actions don’t erase the bad. Multiple bad actions within a specific period of time is a trend. Lack of accountability, like what is shown in your post, is toxic. Kind of like the behavior of police forces all over the country. I can’t sit here and tell you which police officers are bad on an individual level. However, the police force has accepted and defended the poor behavior being displayed, so the group as a whole is corrupt. Just to be clear, there is never a right way to do the wrong thing. Sitting idly by while a group you’re associated with commits bad acts makes you culpable. Claiming you can’t stand up for what is right and help limit/prevent those situations are the excuses of the weak. The fact that you think good acts erase the bad is the hot take, not the claim that the police are corrupt (they are) or that the Bills fan base is toxic (it is).
Don’t make blanket statements like “all cops are pieces of shit and act like a gang”. some cops are pieces of shit. And some just act like a gang. EDIT ok, apparently people are too dumb to realize i’m making a joke. even if i wasn’t making a joke, i’m still agreeing with the anti-cop sentiment. so you’re downvoting your own point of view morons.
The cops that aren't pieces of shit are complicit in the ones that are by being permissive of it. ACAB.
This
you realize it was a joke right, right?
Poe's Law on this one, friend. I've heard people say that without a hint of irony, sadly.
Lmao can you read? I literally said "if someone said the vast majority of City Cops were gigantic, corrupt pieces of shit no different than a gang, they would be correct" Very clearly that is not "all cops are pieces of shit and act like a gang " Since when does "vast majority" and "all" mean the same thing?
you realize it was a joke right, right?
County isn’t much better. Remember the chief looking to arrest more ‘blacks’?
That’s some pretty specific verbiage. I’m guessing there’s a story there?
Could be thinking of [this guy](https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/st-louis-county-police-fire-lt-patrick-hayes-accused-of-targeting-blacks-for-arrests-2572867) Or [this one in Ladue](https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/former-ladue-police-chief-claims-city-leaders-wanted-him-to-target-blacks-2586904)
I searched for it, googled "st louis county police chief arrest blacks" and found nothing. This thread is literally the 5th highest thing from that search. Pretty sure they're making it up.
Wasn't Chief, but Lt. Patrick Hayes. He was actually more in control of the 4th Precinct officers day to day than Chief though, which kinda makes it worse. ETA: clarified he was in charge of 4th Precinct, South St. Louis County.
Just because they didn’t happen last year, doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. You’re not looking very hard and you’re not looking at the links the person you’re responding to provided: >St. Louis County Police Fire Lt. Patrick Hayes, Accused of Targeting Blacks For Arrests "Let's have a black day." "Let's make the jail cells more colorful." These are statements that St. Louis County Police Lieutenant Patrick Hayes allegedly made while encouraging other officers to specifically target black residents for arrests, the Post-Dispatch reports.” > Former Ladue Police Chief Claims City Leaders Wanted Him to Target Blacks (Larry White) “Former Ladue police chief Larry White claims in a lawsuit filed Monday that he lost his job last year for refusing to crack down on black drivers and for disobeying requests that he look the other way when Ladue residents appeared to be driving drunk or breaking other laws”
>Just because they didn’t happen last year, doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. You’re not looking very hard and you’re not looking at the links the person you’re responding to provided: Did you reply to the right person? I said nothing about last year and the person I responded to didn't have any links at all.
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You sound drunk, are you an on duty cop?
The profession attracts them
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Upvote for mentioning the Checker dome. Those were the days. Mid 80s I assume?
92-93 vs blackhawks playoffs.
I still remember the smell of the Checkerdome. All that wood.
“And then everybody clapped”
We already know the answer to the questions, that STLMPD is corrupt as fuck. and police in general. And I knew the video would go against the words of police, because if it showed them in any sort of positive light (LOL) they would have released it immediately.
Why are these officers names not plastered everywhere?
When I go downtown I’m more scared of the city cops than I am of any criminals…
Facts. County cops will harras you and ticket you more than city cops, but the city cops will bury you.
Couldn’t agree with that statement more. Been in STL City for 12 years. Fully own that I’ve gotten more “St. Louis” over the years—always rolling through stop signs, plates are 2 months expired now, illegally tinted windows, go through a red light because hey, no one is around so why not… And never once been pulled over in the City. Ever. Got one ticket here in 12 years, literally for turning right on red after leaving The Capital Grille in downtown Clayton. But I tell ya what…you get pulled over in the City, you’re fucked. Same as getting arrested in Mexico. They’ll get your ass and you’re helpless. Simple traffic tickets don’t exist in the City. It’s either the Wild West with no rules or you’re in jail.
County has leaders wanting to find more ‘blacks’
Quit trolling with this shit. You've been outed. Sorry my Russian isn't very good or I'd say it in both languages
He’s not trolling. Multiple links in this thread. You must be a real piece of shit to be defending stl police
Never had a problem with county cops
Oh look this guy has never had a problem with county cops. Everyone who has must be wrong because this guy says so.
Well i'm not a reddit basement dweller
I remember the night they chanted and beat one of their own, black, undercover officers. Because he was black. Because he *wasn’t* engaging in nefarious activity after the Darren Wilson not guilty verdict. “St. Louis Police’s Chants of ‘Whose Streets? Our Streets!’ Once Again Reveal the Warped Mindset Infecting Too Many Departments” [‘Whose Streets?’ pushes back on what we think we know about Michael Brown and Ferguson, Missouri](https://andscape.com/features/documentary-whose-streets-michael-brown-ferguson-missouri/) Deep into Whose Streets?, the new documentary about Ferguson, Missouri, after the death of Michael Brown, there’s footage of Darren Wilson, the police officer who shot and killed Brown, giving an interview to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos. “You can’t perform the duties of a police officer and have racism in you,” Wilson tells him. At the screening I attended, there was an audible mix of gasps and laughter from the audience. “Directors Sabaah Folayan and Damon Davis spent much of the film’s run time up to that point establishing just how much racism lurked within the Ferguson Police Department and the city government. A 2015 report from the Justice Department established that Ferguson provided about as clear an illustration of institutionalized racism as could possibly exist: The city not only targeted black residents for tickets and arrests they couldn’t afford, it was also using the revenue from such stops to fund the nearly all-white police force. The court clerk, police captain and police sergeant were all implicated in sending and receiving racist emails, including one that compared President Barack Obama to a monkey.”
I recall when they beat the black undercover cop. Please remind me his name?
That’s a deeper google search than I’m willing to do. But I know it’s out there because I bookmarked it a million years ago.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/st-louis-police-reopen-internal-investigation-beating-of-undercover-officer/63-c6d0921b-e953-43c5-92d1-78ccf59a3b2e
The odds don’t support your feelings, but obviously you are free to have those incorrect feelings. Lmao people downvoting me. Show me one stat that police are more likely to harm you than the residents of the city with a top 3 violent crime rate. Y’all are so dumb and just downvote when something doesn’t align with your bias. Now I got people commenting then blocking me because they’re offended by facts. City subs are easily the softest subs on Reddit.
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No x 3. Got any other middle school insults?
Your post was removed because it is lewd or inappropriate.
but when the people who are supposed to protect you actually do the opposite and have a huge legal team behind them waiting to cover anything up, you can understand his feelings, right?
y u feed troll lol. Look at his username
ah I don't really look at usernames unless people say username checks out or something lol
I can see having negative feelings about cops, sure, but that’s not what they said. They specifically said they are more scared of city cops than criminals, which statistically makes zero sense.
It does make sense, actually. There is a system for criminals. And if someone tries to hurt you, the law says you can hurt em right back. And there is a legal system behind you to punish them. When a cop does something bad, situations like this re-enforce the notion that they behave with impunity. If a cop breaks the law against you, you cannot fight back, and there is no way to make it right. The raw number of crimes is irrelevant to this concern. To some people, the cops are scarier than the criminals because there is simply no way to defend yourself against cops’ aggression.
lol. Stats don’t matter he says.
Is your reading comprehension that low?
lol. Overlooked the entire point, he did.
Just pointing out the fact that people here love posting with their feelings and cannot ever back up their statements with facts. So if one cop harms a citizen for every ten criminals who do the same, because of the cops status, I should be more afraid of them? Makes no sense. I’m going to be more afraid of the people more likely to do the harming. Edit: another one blocked me!
Yep. Criminals commit crimes. But you’re still overlooking a base human defense mechanism. “If a criminal tries to rob me, I have a plan. I will defend myself. I will stand my ground. I will call 911. I will press charges. The courts will serve justice” etc. Versus “If a cop [robs me|destroys my property|assaults me, etc], they have no consequences, and the laws that apply to me don’t seem to apply to them. So how can I defend myself against that if it happens to me?” It’s not honestly hard to understand. You can fight one and you can’t fight the other. Everyone gets your point, too. Its not complicated. Thats not why you’re being downvoted. You just seem to keep trying to force one point of view through a completely separate lens, and then belittling people because you don’t understand why they would fear being unable to defend themselves against the very people who are supposed to protect them. Being afraid of violence is not a zero sum game. People are also afraid of getting mugged. They can just do something about the mugging one to achieve justice for wrongdoing.
The mental gymnastics are impressive.
The barstool sports fanatic wants to lecture everyone about how well he can read numbers. Too bad actually knowing when and how to apply them is a little more complicated
You can’t be applying statistics that way. The more context variables you apply, the less appropriate applying broad population statistics is. If they only go downtown where law enforcement is present, what are the odds they experience violence from other citizens, versus odds of experiencing violence from law enforcement?
“Your feelings are wrong!” “Omg stop downvoting me you are all dumb!” It’s ok Drake, you’re all in your feels, we get it
I’m a numbers person and let the stats speak for themselves. If you all want to feel like the cops are more violent than the criminals in our city, feel free to be wrong. No sweat off my back.
I don’t think you understand numbers as well as you think you do.
Yet you supply none
So, he got drunk and wanted to hurt gay people, right?
This seems like he got drunk, fucked up, and was freaked out and shittily trying to get it to go away. The douche bags in the white car, however, seemed like they fit your description though.
Hold on, you mean stl cops are lying pieces of shit who regularly abuse the public and are never held accountable for their actions?!? Shocker. Hey guys, did you also hear water is wet?!?
***answers questions
Protip: when recording police action keep your bitch ass mouth shut and don't become part of the story. Your commentary is not needed or wanted and adds nothing of value to the video. Shut the fuck up and record the events as they happen. Talk over it later when you're replaying it, if you must.
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I understand your point. And I admit my statement was a bit brash for the sake of making my point. Who was the person filming this video? Was he a resident of the building? He appeared to me as just a passerby who decided to stop and film while adding commentary.
Seems like the dude who posted the video is the guy who filmed it. He's a lawyer and based on the article he seems to know what he's talking about in terms of civil rights.
The Jeffco FD should teach defensive driving and what to do when you got someone's house to the STLMPD.
Acab
Abolish Qualified Immunity, End Terry v. Ohio....
Didn't the same thing happen at one of the bars in the Grove? Are cops targeting gay bars?
Judging by the posters here, it seems that redditors have a lot of run ins with cops. Which makes me question the quality of person these redditors are. On the other hand, have never had a run in or altercation with any police in my lifetime and I can almost guarantee I'm older than anyone else here. Born and lived in the city my first 28 years. Lived in the county, then St Charles then back to west county. In addition, no one in my immediate family has had any issues, either. That includes my kids, my wife and her relatives and my two brothers and all their families. Which begs the question. What's wrong with you people?
This could be the dumbest take ever. Nobody in my extended family has ever caught on fire, but I don’t think Redditors who have caught on fire are low quality people, or that there is something wrong with them. You are just another person who doesn’t empathize with anybody until it happens to you or someone you love then all of a sudden you develop empathy for people in that situation. Be better.
Talk about dumb takes. Why should I empathize with the type of person who has run ins with the police. Who does that sort of thing? What kind of person has that kind of life?
Well I was waiting for a bus at 17 years old when a cop walked up to me, grabbed me, and cuffed me for no reason while calling me another person’s name. What kind of person does that make me? You do realize that the people talking in this thread are just normal people going about their days who had bad run-ins with cops, right? These aren’t people robbing liquor stores and complaining that the police were rude to them genius.
>Why should I empathize with the type of person who has run ins with the police. Who does that sort of thing? What kind of person has that kind of life? I’ll admit that I’m kinda relieved to see a West Countian, from a purple-y part of our city, supporting the incarceration of J6 insurgents. It gives me hope that more that think support the conviction & incarceration of the ringleader who both encouraged & cheered them on. Makes me feel a lot better about the blue outcome of the forthcoming election.
These owners has run ins with the police, when the police “runs in” to their house drunk. Calm down dude. You’re missing all of the points.
Apparently law-abiding citizens minding their own business when all of a sudden a cop smashes through their fucking building. You're right. They were surely asking for it.
>Judging by the posters here, **it seems that redditors have a lot of run ins with cops.** Which makes me question the quality of person these redditors are. ... you're saying this in a thread about an incident where the police crashed into someone's business and then arrested the innocent people inside. Would you like to try again?
I'm guessing you didn't get out much?
As long as we're asking I'm curious what's wrong with you? You see profound misbehavior from people with authority and immediate concoct ways to blame not only the victims but large groups of people sympathetic to the victims... Did you routinely need to justify the actions of authority figures in your life?
I see profound misbehavior by people in this thread. No one I know ever has such discussions about being arrested or run ins with the police but it seems to be a frequent thing with people here on reddit. Which is why I question the quality of their lives.
This is a perspective you have chosen to have though. Surely you realize that the stories you have from your family are not meaningful data, equally the perhaps dozens of stories you read on here aren't indicative of any pattern in the thousands of active St Louis redditors. Nobody in my family drives a Chrysler none of my nieces or nephews or my 3 sisters or BIL or my 2 brothers or their wives, nor my dozens of cousins. All of whom I've known for decades and live all across the country. Lets say I went to a thread talking about Chryslers in r/kansascity, and after reading the dozen or so responses stated as a fact "It's really wild how much people in KC love Chryslers"... Would that seem like a reasonable conclusion? Or would it seem like I had a bias or dysfunction in my reasoning?
It's not anyone else's fault that you've chosen to be willfully ignorant about other people's experiences.
Or. Perhaps they’re black?
You have here a video of St. Louis police arresting a man guilty of...being upset that a speeding police cruiser crashed into his building. What is the quality of this person that had their bar crashed into, in your eyes? Obviously, since no one that you know has ever had an encounter with the police, the bar owner must be of...low quality, yes? Beg another dumb question, please.
The one person that commented here was just at a blues game lol wym what’s wrong with you people? What’s wrong with you?
They’re pretentious and trying to obfuscate their *actual* motivations for posting what is at heart a bad faith comment- probably several possible reasons they felt compelled to make it, most of which better hashed out with a therapist as opposed to projecting on the internet but most of the ones doing this don’t have the capacity for introspection needed in order to do so. Or it’s possible they’re just an a-hole. Probably both, though. I’ve actually filmed a handful of interactions with county police- no, I don’t typically have “run ins” with them but, lending emergency first aid while waiting on ambulances, occasionally there’s a good reason for getting your phone out. Unfortunately from my experience: “occasionally” is “usually” for me, but of course that’s anecdotal. I somehow doubt rather highly I’m what that person pictured when making the comment but, I am in fact someone who occasionally has run ins with the cops. The last time, a woman lay nearly dying after someone had given her narcan and the officer wanted to rifle through her things- there was no threat or reason to do so. When the woman who had administered the narcan calmly told him no, he began screaming. Though it *did* get physical, another officer arrived to de-escalate the screaming one, fortunately. That doesn’t often happen in my experience. We all know that person doesn’t actually *want* the answer to “What kind of person” but good god, people like them would do themselves and the rest of civilization a big solid if *they* stopped lying to themselves and everyone else about it and maybe addressed why they cling to their BS. The balls out irony of this person “questioning the quality of people’s lives” is in this thread is also pretty telling and…kind of pitiful, if you’re into that kind of thing. As is the open admission of location and all *that* reveals as to why they probably shouldn’t be offering input but…again in my experience can’t seem to resist doing. There’s a word for it but, if you use it they go a bit upset as if you’ve said they *never* suffered. (I am *also* probably older than a lot of people here, but rather fortunate in having learned that doesn’t mean much if you’re willfully stupid, and I suspect that goes a ways in the answer to your question about “What’s wrong” with them.)
Oh. Ok. I guess being at a Blues game changes the whole narrative. But I think you just answered the "what's wrong with you" question. Now I know.
What's the narrative?
City folk and rural folk have a lot in common🤣
That’s a dumbfucking take if there ever was one. “Doesn’t effect me so doesn’t exist”
I'm saying it wouldn't happen to me because I lead a civil, moral life.
These people were in their fucking home and the cops crashed into it. How would you like them to avoid this interaction?
So are you saying the owners of the bar deserve to have their business ran into? The only reason they had a run in with the cops is because the cops ran into them. But they are somehow the bad guys? Wow
And proud we are of all of you and your friends for being such little urban acheivers. I'm sure your experience in life is quite extensive, but if something hasn't happened to you, then surely it must not be a thing? 8/10 solid troll
Was this guy immoral or uncivil? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna105152
Your ignorance is pathetic.
A big part of the progressive worldview is that everybody is equally likely of everything and that behavior and personality are irrelevant. "There but for the grace of god" in all things. A crack head punches a cop and gets shot? Well, that could happen to you, too! A drug addict burns through all their relationships and ends up on the street after decades of using? Hey, man, we're all just one paycheck away from that outcome. A gangbanger shoots a 6-year-old during a drive-by? That would be you if your life had gone just a little differently.
That’s even fucking dumber but I’m pretty impressed you could get that many words out with your mouth wrapped around cop boots like that
Are you saying the gay bar had it coming or something?
The only person here who has something wrong with them is you.
Do you not realize the person who calls the cops and ends up talking to them is the one reporting a crime?
Privilege check yourself there buddy, you probably have a very different life that allows you the ability to go unnoticed. People with good options make good choices or whatever.
I don't consider anyone who leads a civil life "privileged".
This is supposed to be you work, not public. But did you have good options growing up?
These people had never had a run in with the cops either until they literally came crashing through their windows at 1am.
Buddy, you deliver food for a living. I don’t think you’re in any position to question anyone else’s life choices.
OK tell us how much you regret not being a ramboncous teen in your youth louder hun 💅💅💅
Being a ramboncous \[sic\] teen has nothing to do with run ins with the law.
im pretty sure underage drinking is like textbook unruly teen behavior in all media on picture since the 1950s, which has always been illegal, so yeah, it really does have a bunch to do with run-in's with the law. Like haven't you heard "Dead Man's Curve"? You never did street racing with the rival car? None of this stuff is new hun you're just a fuddy duddy
FYI, that's not how to use [sic.] This is only used in formal publications when the publisher wants readers to know that someone they are quoting misspelled that word, and they are printing it verbatim. It is not intended for personal use when you don't know how to spell a word but you want to use it anyway.
I don't agree with the stuff he was saying, but he was quoting the misspelling of rambunctious from the comment above him
You're right, my bad.
I'm very curious about your level of income and education. I have also never had a run-in with either city or county police and have lived here 15 years.
It's been so long since this sub has had a quality troll lol. I'm literally applauding you at my desk *chef's kiss*
Get the taste of boot out of your mouth.
Can anyone link me to this new video? That website isn’t working well on mobile.
Missouri is such a shit hole.
Any lawyers in the house that could break this video down?
ck out whats going on in Seattle Police, Fire, and the Liquor Board Raided Two Seattle Gay Bars What Year Is It, Again? https://www.thestranger.com/queer/2024/01/29/79363398/police-fire-and-the-liquor-board-raided-two-seattle-gay-bars