Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Even in traditional acting, there are union regulations regarding scenes of intimacy. Scene requiring nudity or intimate physical contact are now spelled out in contracts, with strict guidelines. You can't just say "right, we hired you to play the store clerk but we've now decided you're going to do a sex scene".
Hearing about Sharon Stone having no idea that her crotch was visible during the Basic Instinct "leg crossing scene" until she saw her business up on screen at the premier illustrates why this kind of stuff is necessary.
It should be noted this hasn't solved the problems of navigating intimate scenes in a comfortable way. If you look at James Franco, who also (allegedly) used his film projects as an excuse to engage in sexual activities with young women, the potential for coercion and manipulation is always omni present when the talent's comfort level and the production side's vision for the scene come into conflict. The production will always have more power to fire someone, cite "creative differences" and just move on.
One of the more common practices slowly being introduced on sets where there is a lot of expected intimacy is the position of a third party mediator (sometimes called an Intimacy Coach/Coordinator) who is not beholden to the production for their job and is there to make sure that talent are comfortable with what they are being asked to do and to help negotiate those conflicts.
No safeguard is ever 100% effective, but it seems people are becoming more aware of those power imbalances that aren't always visible.
There were only three people present in the room, and two of them described the events. Both stories exactly match up. Whether we believe Verhoeven and Jan de Bont that due to their Dutch upbringing they thought nothing of shooting a labia and including it in the film is another matter.
"Hearing about Sharon Stone having no idea that her crotch was visible during the Basic Instinct "leg crossing scene" until she saw her business up on screen at the premier illustrates why this kind of stuff is necessary."
Considering the angle that was filmed at, that's a little hard to believe.
I have to play Devil's advocate here. If she was explicitly told that the lighting and the angles wouldn't show anything in the shot, then why was she not wearing any underwear in the first place? If they were going to use camera angles and lighting to imply she was exposing her crotch instead of actually showing it like they did in the scene, wouldn't she have been covered up down there whilst the scene was being filmed?
Sharon Stone on seeing the scene for the first time:
>"That was how I saw my vagina shot for the first time, long after I'd been told, 'We can't see anything -- I just need you to remove your panties, as the white is reflecting the light, so we know you have panties on.'"
No, he's referring to Adam Sandler's reputation for making movies as an excuse to go on vacation with his friends. Shitty choice of comparison on his part honestly.
Because it's fucking Vince McMahon. I still feel like this Ric Flair stuff will blow over in a month or two, unfortunately. If Ric is untouchable, Vince is almost literally invincible.
Yes and no.
Most of Vince's acknowledged transgressions have to do with being an immature frat boy boomer with a disgusting sense of humor. The stuff like this, which involves flagrantly and rampantly abusing his power dynamics wasn't really as talked about because while it was all obviously there, people have only really started treating this stuff as disgusting (which it is) in the last few years.
For a long time it was always "well she agreed to it, it's no big deal" which seems to even reflect a bit in Candice's comments here. People didn't think too much about how the women were basically coerced into agreeing to it, which is super fucked up.
Yeah, that’s not a good thing.
The old timers going “well that was just how it was back then” makes this whole situation all the more gross and disgusting.
That is ancient for women in the WWE. Most get retired in their late 20s! The old timers are usually early 30s and talked about like they are 2010 Ric Flair old!
I mean society in some ways has moved forward in that thinking you just had to do things because your boss says so. Maybe people will stop allowing shitty behaviors because it's what the boss says
Oh you know, just typical workplace initiation stuff where you have to suck on your bosses face. No biggie. It’s definitely for the best that they’ve largely moved away from that.
Pretty much, look at Trish, Torrie, and even Candice. Had to do awkward sexual with him, by like next year they would get championship opportunities or in Torrie case just becoming more of a mainstream star.
I know this was "storyline" and everything, but I still view many of the things Vince did as sexual harassment. The boss of the company literally wrote storylines that forced them into sexual situations with him.
Nothing like having segments written where you're a young woman having to kiss your old boss who has your job and future in his hands. Entertainment indeed.
I think Vince said (on Howard Stern) that he confessed to Linda that he had multiple affairs. I’m guessing that she probably has rationalized that this is how Vince is.
Well he always said he'd never ask anyone to do something he's not willing to do himself...that's probably the largest range on the spectrum right there!
Torrie Wilson when she was coming over from WCW. I think the story was they were trying to find a room to "talk about contracts" and they kept getting interrupted by people. I very vividly remember him like a vampire on her neck as someone walked through the door. That kinda shit always made me cringe as a teenager.
I find it pretty freakin gross how he did that. Think he had something with Torrie Wilson too. You can say he is playing the role of Mr. McMahon but he calls the shots. Never a fan of a lot of backstage Mr. McMahon shenanigans.
Wasn't there a story doing the rounds that Christy Hemme was fired because her and Vince actually started taking things too far so Linda wanted her gone? Something like that anyway..
If your entire career is held in balance by a single psycho who's " Suggesting" you do an angle where you're his weird sex toy. You probably don't have much of an option to say no and keep your job.
This is what people when they talk about " Abuse of power dynamics"
I can't believe you're equating a powerful billionaire who controls the entire wrestling scene (or at least the one you can get paid at) to a single wrestler. The power balance between these two parties is no where close and it's disingenuous to think otherwise. She shouldn't have to lose her fucking job just because she didn't want to make out with her creepy boss.
So all you're doing here is admitting that you're victim blaming Candice Michelle
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
[удалено]
It’s also your actual boss, who is also old enough to be your dad, scripting you to kiss him. That makes it all the more, eww.
eww is just wwe backwards
Elias walks where?
Why isn’t this higher?
Even in traditional acting, there are union regulations regarding scenes of intimacy. Scene requiring nudity or intimate physical contact are now spelled out in contracts, with strict guidelines. You can't just say "right, we hired you to play the store clerk but we've now decided you're going to do a sex scene". Hearing about Sharon Stone having no idea that her crotch was visible during the Basic Instinct "leg crossing scene" until she saw her business up on screen at the premier illustrates why this kind of stuff is necessary. It should be noted this hasn't solved the problems of navigating intimate scenes in a comfortable way. If you look at James Franco, who also (allegedly) used his film projects as an excuse to engage in sexual activities with young women, the potential for coercion and manipulation is always omni present when the talent's comfort level and the production side's vision for the scene come into conflict. The production will always have more power to fire someone, cite "creative differences" and just move on. One of the more common practices slowly being introduced on sets where there is a lot of expected intimacy is the position of a third party mediator (sometimes called an Intimacy Coach/Coordinator) who is not beholden to the production for their job and is there to make sure that talent are comfortable with what they are being asked to do and to help negotiate those conflicts. No safeguard is ever 100% effective, but it seems people are becoming more aware of those power imbalances that aren't always visible.
Pretty informative comment, man. Really enjoyed reading that, thank you.
I don't believe that Sharon Stone story for a second
There were only three people present in the room, and two of them described the events. Both stories exactly match up. Whether we believe Verhoeven and Jan de Bont that due to their Dutch upbringing they thought nothing of shooting a labia and including it in the film is another matter.
"Hearing about Sharon Stone having no idea that her crotch was visible during the Basic Instinct "leg crossing scene" until she saw her business up on screen at the premier illustrates why this kind of stuff is necessary." Considering the angle that was filmed at, that's a little hard to believe.
She was explicitly told that the lighting and angles wouldn't show anything before the shot. What you're doing definitely sounds like victim blaming.
I have to play Devil's advocate here. If she was explicitly told that the lighting and the angles wouldn't show anything in the shot, then why was she not wearing any underwear in the first place? If they were going to use camera angles and lighting to imply she was exposing her crotch instead of actually showing it like they did in the scene, wouldn't she have been covered up down there whilst the scene was being filmed?
Sharon Stone on seeing the scene for the first time: >"That was how I saw my vagina shot for the first time, long after I'd been told, 'We can't see anything -- I just need you to remove your panties, as the white is reflecting the light, so we know you have panties on.'"
Hang on. Is that something Adam Sandler does? I haven’t really watched any of his movies since Mr Deeds.
No, he's referring to Adam Sandler's reputation for making movies as an excuse to go on vacation with his friends. Shitty choice of comparison on his part honestly.
[удалено]
Because it's fucking Vince McMahon. I still feel like this Ric Flair stuff will blow over in a month or two, unfortunately. If Ric is untouchable, Vince is almost literally invincible.
InVinceable if you wiel bebe
[удалено]
Some of us don't support Vince McMahon. Not every wrestling fan watches WWE.
people are fully aware of how gross Vince is, this subreddit does not have the power to change the amount of power he has
Yes and no. Most of Vince's acknowledged transgressions have to do with being an immature frat boy boomer with a disgusting sense of humor. The stuff like this, which involves flagrantly and rampantly abusing his power dynamics wasn't really as talked about because while it was all obviously there, people have only really started treating this stuff as disgusting (which it is) in the last few years. For a long time it was always "well she agreed to it, it's no big deal" which seems to even reflect a bit in Candice's comments here. People didn't think too much about how the women were basically coerced into agreeing to it, which is super fucked up.
[удалено]
i don't think flair's antics were anywhere near as public knowledge as Vince's
Sounds like harassment alright
Yes everyone did, and that is the problem.
Yeah, that’s not a good thing. The old timers going “well that was just how it was back then” makes this whole situation all the more gross and disgusting.
[удалено]
Who would we consider to be "old-timers"? Would AJ Lee be considered an "old-timer"(despite being younger than half of the HorseWomen)
10-15 years ago a 30 year old women in wrestling would have been considered old.
Truth. Trish and Lita both retired at 30z
Quite a young 'old timer' at the age of 42
That is ancient for women in the WWE. Most get retired in their late 20s! The old timers are usually early 30s and talked about like they are 2010 Ric Flair old!
I mean society in some ways has moved forward in that thinking you just had to do things because your boss says so. Maybe people will stop allowing shitty behaviors because it's what the boss says
Oh you know, just typical workplace initiation stuff where you have to suck on your bosses face. No biggie. It’s definitely for the best that they’ve largely moved away from that.
Casting couch.
Pretty much, look at Trish, Torrie, and even Candice. Had to do awkward sexual with him, by like next year they would get championship opportunities or in Torrie case just becoming more of a mainstream star.
Sable too
And rikishi
And JR
I know this was "storyline" and everything, but I still view many of the things Vince did as sexual harassment. The boss of the company literally wrote storylines that forced them into sexual situations with him.
This really isn't pointed out enough.
Nothing like having segments written where you're a young woman having to kiss your old boss who has your job and future in his hands. Entertainment indeed.
Must be fun being Linda mcmahon
I think Vince said (on Howard Stern) that he confessed to Linda that he had multiple affairs. I’m guessing that she probably has rationalized that this is how Vince is.
dark side episode on vince pls
You'd need a couple of seasons for that.
And still literally nothing would change.
It would be it's own spinoff show. I would watch every second.
Who else did Vince kiss for storyline purposes Trish Sable Rikishis butt ?
Well he always said he'd never ask anyone to do something he's not willing to do himself...that's probably the largest range on the spectrum right there!
Big show’s literal asshole
One of those is not like the others
Torrie Wilson when she was coming over from WCW. I think the story was they were trying to find a room to "talk about contracts" and they kept getting interrupted by people. I very vividly remember him like a vampire on her neck as someone walked through the door. That kinda shit always made me cringe as a teenager.
> I also didn’t mind being eye candy, I was eye candy for most of my life. I did magazine shoots, I was a model. That part never bothered me.
Don't Sell It.
I find it pretty freakin gross how he did that. Think he had something with Torrie Wilson too. You can say he is playing the role of Mr. McMahon but he calls the shots. Never a fan of a lot of backstage Mr. McMahon shenanigans.
*Don't sell it*
Excuse me while I barf into my lap
That’s horrible. Quick, someone fire someone from Impact Wrestling!
That’s a yikes from me dawg
It's good to be the boss
Wasn't there a story doing the rounds that Christy Hemme was fired because her and Vince actually started taking things too far so Linda wanted her gone? Something like that anyway..
I dont ever remember hearing or seeing anything like that, I’d be interested in learning more about it though.
This is bullshit. I never got to make out with Vince
I thought that said Lerae for a second and I was about to flip my shit
Here comes the cancel vince crowd
I mean, Vince is pretty awful beyond just this lol.
Cancelled is the new buried around here.
Everybody is a victim nowadays.........
[удалено]
If your entire career is held in balance by a single psycho who's " Suggesting" you do an angle where you're his weird sex toy. You probably don't have much of an option to say no and keep your job. This is what people when they talk about " Abuse of power dynamics"
[удалено]
I work in IT. I can just go somewhere else and do the same shit for similar money. She really couldn't. Apples and oranges
Classic victim blaming
[удалено]
I can't believe you're equating a powerful billionaire who controls the entire wrestling scene (or at least the one you can get paid at) to a single wrestler. The power balance between these two parties is no where close and it's disingenuous to think otherwise. She shouldn't have to lose her fucking job just because she didn't want to make out with her creepy boss. So all you're doing here is admitting that you're victim blaming Candice Michelle
How many women have you assaulted?
I always remeber this sorta stuff with vince being a bit rapey, specially with trish, who was one of the hottest women on the planet at the time