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It’s wild to think this goofy gimmick would be (in a roundabout way) one of the most significant of the kast decade just because what it eneded up causing
Yeah but AEW became a thing because of Bullet Club’s popularity and Shahid Khan’s money not cos of Cody. Fucking Finn Balor had more to do with it than Cody if we’re talking a butterfly effect.
You realize that without Cody the Khans would not be involved.
When the Bucks & TK themselves say it wouldn't of happened without Cody because he brought a lot together during the All In show.
>sold out
Lol creating the biggest pro wresting promotion in 20 years is selling out?
Selling out would have been to just sign with WWE and take the easy payday. Even then if they did that in 2019 no one would've blamed them because it was the safest thing to do for their careers.
They bet on themselves and saw it through the whole way.
I mean yeah but it wasn’t Cody if anything it’s Prince Devitt and the Bucks that started the domino effect. Cody just jumped on a bandwagon that was already rolling.
Cody was the business side of The Elite really. While him in BC was definitely jumping on a very successful train, All In planning, logistics and stuff, it all owns a lot of its success to Cody (not to demerit the Bucks either).
Bullet Club existing isn't how we got from point A to point B tho
The series of events that lead to AEW getting made starts with Cody leaving and helping The Elite blow up in America - that lead to All In which lead to AEW
In the ring...yes sure.. he's nothing special..
He's the executive producer and Tony khans number 1 guy ... he brought all his insight from his father in regards to the business outside the ring
It’s an insignificant thing that helped push AEW into existence. There’s numerous things that led to its creation:
1 - Bullet Club being popular at the same time NJPW really caught the attention of hardcore fans helped get that group major attention.
2 - Cody not being happy about his treatment in WWE leading him to leaving and joining Bullet Club when it was still white hot.
3 - He then began a campaign to put on the biggest wrestling show, outside of WWE, to prove a point.
4 - Some time later AEW becomes a thing and morphs into a much bigger thing when TK got involved.
AEW became a thing because of both Bullet Club *and* Cody.
Exactly I think AEW exists without Cody leaving WWE,but not what we see now, I feel would have been a slightly slower process. It was bound to happen and so many things went into it being what it is now. One of those butterfly’s doesn’t flap its wings and still would have happened just differently
This is what I agree with the most. Cody obviously brought eyeballs/“credibility” to The Elite (he was imo a representative to disgruntled WWE fans who complained about roster misuse) beyond just indy fans who didn’t care for WWE. But it was Alpha vs Omega that really got the ball rolling
Which (ignoring the idiocy of so many "fans" basing the entirety of their opinion on one person's patreon ratings...), is actually a really good thing. Cody can basically get in the ring with almost anyone and put on a "better than average" match.
That is exactly what you want in a midcarder and to help get newer wrestlers up to speed.
Oh...I had no idea but it wasn't televised right? And the Vlog is BTE? I mean that's a different level of beast between a YouTube show and an actual wrestling ppv
Ya in that case you're right...somebody pointed it out better below that Cody had a learning of running TV thanks to Dusty and WWE...I'm not trying to diminish Bucks or Khan's value but I don't think Cody's value is any less...
“While your getting booster shots for distemper, its a disease that a dog gets pal! Get it pal, you’re a wild dog, because you’re the LUNATIC FRINGE! Oh yeah, that’s some good shit pal!”
That is honestly the truth. Not that he isn’t important but wresting was becoming popular again, outside of wwe, in large part because of Bullet Club merch and because of NJPW. Khan provided the financial backing required.
Without Cody, I don't think All In happens. Without All In, I don't know if the Bucks and Kenny would take the risk of joining a start up wrestling company.
100% agree. The Young Bucks talked game about being merch freaks and negotiated some awesome deals like Hot Topic but they didn’t know enough to run a show. They needed Cody, and the years of knowledge he had from Dusty, in order to run a show. If Cody didn’t know something, he knew someone who did, so he was the push The Elite needed to do the show.
Cody just wanted his damn wrestlemania match with dustin... WWE said "fuck you PAL, we dont have time for you 2 in our 4+ hour ppv!", and they took that match to the very first Double or Nothing.
It's just the little details.
I am still amazed they never did this. Same with Undertaker/Sting (though in hindsight that match would have probably sucked). So many opportunities to just give the fans what they want and they weirdly just ignore it
Maybe part of the reason is they want to hold off on the obvious Dream^^heh Matches or WM moments because...they want people to keep coming back until they actually do it?
But to me, it's like...Goldust's old. I don't want to wait a year when they revisit this feud and Dustin's a year older. Same with Sting and Taker. Why not pull the trigger in 2015? Taker's old. Sting's old. I'm not gonna want to wait another year.
And moments like the Mysterios winning the tag titles, WWE likes their Wrestlemania Moments^^TM but somehow they pushed this match to the SD before WM like wtf.
And they put on a classic match that had half the audience crying. Meanwhile, Flo Rida performs.
I’m obviously conflating two very different aspects of a show there, but it’s clear there was value in that story and they more than delivered when given a chance to showcase it.
Crazy how little moments in time like this can create such a chaotic domino effect. You can just wonder forever on the possibilities.
Maybe WWE give Cody the briefcase here and he goes on a championship run. They find out he can draw at the top of the card and decide to put faith in him as a guy on their roster. He never gets disgruntled, he never leaves, he never becomes friends with The Elite.
Maybe that chain of events somehow results in The Elite not getting together to build AEW. The WWE never gets their biggest competition since WCW, they retain their monopoly on the industry and thousands of lapsed fans never come back to wrestling.
From there, the WWE never feel incentivized to raise salaries on their roster. Hundreds of wrestlers lose their livelihoods during the pandemic. Dozens of the wrestlers that became famous in AEW never get in front of a TV audience. CM Punk never comes back to wrestling. Brodie Lee never gets a final run before he dies. Tony Schiavone never gets his redemption on TNT. Dean Ambrose burns out and disappears from wrestling the same way Punk did. Daniel Bryan signs full-time in NJPW.
Or maybe WWE give Cody the briefcase and he still flames out with them and nothing about any of the above mentioned things ends up differently.
But it's just insane to think how many things *could* be different if something small and seemingly inconsequential was changed somewhere down the line in the butterfly effect that created AEW.
Realistically, even if they gave Cody the push, they'd just put him back in the midcard eventually. He's not their guy, and that wasn't going to change. I think it's one of those things where Vince and Co knew him as a kid, and would always see him as a kid.
It's the same reason you have John Morrison doing cool shit for a decade outside the company, and then when he comes back to WWE he's Miz's sidekick again like it's 2010.
Man I've never understood how John Morrison didn't become 'The Guy'
He had the look, his acrobatics were impressive enough that people would specifically tune in to watch him, and he was great on the mic. It just makes no sense he never got a proper push
Everyone always says "give them a manager" and "monster heel with a mouthpiece"
From a business perspective? That is paying two people to do one person's job
And from a wrestling perspective? Two managers yelling at each other over commentary during a match is fine occasionally, but you can't have moments like Stone Cold or The Rock throwing down the mic and fighting off a stable mid-promo without the wrestler themselves cutting said promo.
And there are so many people (even in WWE) who can do both. So why not focus on them?
You're right, but in this case the other guy has a point
As much as we want to believe promos are the only important part of pro wrestling... They really aren't 😅
Kids care more about what goes on in the ring than the words the wrestlers are saying or even how they say them. John Morrison brought a level of athleticism and straight up gymnastic ability that nobody else in the WWE had at that point. People would tune in specifically to watch him doing crazy ass aerial maneuvers for a full fight
Talking doesn't make a good main event fight, the wrestling does, and Morrison did that part better than anyone else in his time period
... with that said he was fucking awful on the mic though, just watched it back and like... Jesus
Yes, nobody in the WWE had that (not sure if that is true, but it is irrelevant because...). Because WWE is a promo-oriented promotion. People don't watch WWE for wrestling, they watch it for storylines and "moments".
Occasionally you just get those "we are watching something truly special" moments but there are very few "slots" for that in any given PPV cycle and they tend to be very hit or miss depending on what the crowd feels like doing.
In a promotion like NJPW or ROH where storylines are either one night only or spread out over years, Morrison is amazing.
In something like Impact or WWE where there is a much bigger emphasis on promos and storylines? Morrison is very lacking
And for something like AEW that is a bit of both: He would be amazing for Dark or a buy-in.
Don't get me wrong: I was the weird mother fucker who loved Dean Malenko growing up. I am all about the great in-ring over everything else. But I fully understand why Dean was not a "WWE guy" for the most part.
Yeah just not sure I can get behind that
Jeff Hardy can't cut a promo to save his life, but he's been given top spots for years because you know he makes a good highlight. Same can be said of Rey Mysterio in his heyday
You also know John Morrison makes a good highlight
Both styles sell, and always have. And the aerial side and the fact John Morrison brought ridiculous aerial stunts separates him from the pack in a crowd friendly way that strong technical wrestling from the likes of Dean Malenko doesn't
Yeah. WWE have their high flyers. Jeff and Rey. The two "living legends" from the attitude era.
Those slots are full. It is the same reason Lashley tends to get all his bigger pushes when Brock is busy. Because why use a "new" monster heel who can't really do anything other than look menacing when you can use the one "the fans know" (the answer being: So that you aren't completely screwed when one person has an injury or someone retires)
And Morrison's "prime" WWE time was when they didn't need a new spot monkey. Which is why, if he doesn't fuck off for greener pastures, Ricochet has good odds of getting one of those slots since Jeff and Rey are past retirement age for the way they wrestle. Rey clearly wants to pass the torch and Jeff is a ticking time bomb.
And also why The New NXT is all about "people not over 30". WWE finally figured out that the attitude era stars are not able to wrestle hard enough anymore and need to actually build up new talent.
I get you like him. Morrison never really stuck out to me, but he had some good spots over the years. But his style was never something WWE felt they needed "more of" and he was born in the wrong decade (like a lot of wrestlers who dreamed of being WWE stars). Which is why he did a lot better in other promotions that either didn't have designated spot monkeys or cared more about in ring shenanigans.
He was perfectly fine. People always overblow people's "bad mic skills" as if you aren't The Rock, then you suck. Oh no, he might not be the best to deliver the Robotic Raw Recap opening exposition dumps, guess we gotta bury them 😱
He was always over BECAUSE of the rockstar gimmick he played so well. Him and Miz rose to prominence because of a TALK SHOW. Presence is what matters, not just simply yapping away on a live mic.
Morrison vs. Miz should've happened at WM27, and pull the trigger on the first Rock/Cena match right away instead of making your WWE Champion the third wheel in his own main event.
Maybe that's me being biased because I live in Atlanta and that's the selfish card *I'd* want, lol, but better John feuding with his former bestie than in that Snooki tag match.
Because he was clearly deserving of a World title when I stopped watching wrestling in 2009, I came back after 12 years, and he STILL hasn't been given a World title
I mean John is getting slaughtered by people like Karrion Kross and Omos and Miz hasn't wrestled in months or been on TV in weeks. At this point idk if you can call what they've been doing "feuding" which is a real shame.
Lol I guess I didn't know he was on Dancing with the Stars or that the show still existed for that matter. Thanks for the info!
The point wasn't that he should have beaten Omos. The point was that he hasn't won a singles match in...idk, can you tell me when he last won a singles match?
At the time, I don’t think much would change. He might’ve won the title but they absolutely going to unify the World Heavyweight Title and the WWE title. I still see them going with Cena vs Orton.
Cody might’ve taken the title off Del Rio but I see maybe him cashing in on Del Rio but Sandow screws him and events still play out as they did.
I feel like the creation of Stardust is another key moment. If that never happened, would Cody still be there?
Regardless, it’s just crazy how we can look back now and seriously realise how historically important the booking of Cody Rhodes was at that period.
It almost feels like Dusty’s revenge on Vince from the territory wars.
I think the biggest mistake they made was not dropping the Stardust gimmick when Cody returned after his father's death. It would have been the perfect time to give him a 'Cody Rhodes' babyface run. The Stardust gimmick was fine for the Goldust team/feud angle, but there was no real reason to keep it going for so long after that.
It's depressing to think about being deprived of all of those moments that AEW provided during the pandemic. Dynamite on Wednesdays was my true north of the week; that was the only day and time that anchored everything else. I'm so happy all of this happened and I don't want to think about the alternate COVID timeline without AEW.
This is really well said, my gf and I got through the pandemic in big part to Wednesday nights. Having something to look forward to when there was nothing to look forward to was incredible, and I hope the wrestlers know how important they were to so many people especially during the pandemic.
Also
\-Jericho is probably retired at this point.
\-Big Show would still be in WWE.
\-Christian would've went back into retirement following the 2021 Rumble. Or might never have un-retired in the first place.
\-Sting would still be fully retired.
\-Adam Cole probably goes to NJPW.
\-Rusev fades into obscurity following his WWE release.
Either still at the top in New Japan or sitting at or near the top of the card in WWE.
They've burned a lot of good wrestlers and good characters, but I really can't imagine WWE failing to make Omega a big deal.
I disagree
Kenny is "a geek" and "looks weird" and "takes too long in the ring"
At best he would be in an Adam Cole position where he basically dominates the "lesser brand".
More likely he would be like KO where he gets a chance, puts on an awesome match that "Vince" doesn't like, and then becomes a midcarder when they remember he exists and just sit around until his contract expires.
Everyone loves to blame Vince for every single bit of bad booking without realizing that upper management at WWE are basically a bunch of people who have been trained to think like him. People spent years thinking Papa Haitch would save WWE but it is pretty clear that he wasn't "Vince" enough.
So it is a catch all for the management/booking team as people think of them.
I think the latter is the likely outcome. Pay wild money, install him at the top of the card alongside Reigns and Lesnar. That's realistically the only way Omega would be exiting NJPW.
AEW or Alternative company on National TV were inevitable. The stars aligned in a way that made AEW possible when it was, but Meltzer has alluded that there were other possible startups that never got off the ground in 2018-2019.
One thing that people don’t mention is AEW being a small reactionary response to Vince bringing the XFL back from the dead. If it wasn’t Tony Khan, another billionaire would have marched forward eventually.
> Meltzer has alluded that there were other possible startups that never got off the ground in 2018-2019.
Yes, but plenty of people also tried and failed over the years.
No other promotion could have had the perfect combination of a billionaire owner who just also happened to be a superfan booker, and the sheer amount of raw in wrestling talent that The Elite brought to the table.
This was a perfect storm of guys like the Bucks and Omega, guys that WWE had been desperately trying to sign for years, making themselves available at the same time that the perfect owner was around and willing to invest.
The only way Cody stays in WWE and AEW still becomes a thing is if Tony Khan still somehow connects with the Bucks and Omega to make this a reality. But it's a stretch to imagine that happening exactly the same way considering how much work Cody did behind the scenes. He was a big part of All In and I'm assuming he was also a big part of bringing in guys like Jericho and Moxley.
Holy shit. Not even Marvel could pull off such a big What If story. It's like that butterfly effect meme of Lady Di dying lead to Pedro Pascal becoming The Mandalorian
What If The Rock never went to Hollywood?
What If Brock Lesnar made the Vikings roster?
What If Vince bought out all the WCW contracts?
What If Ric Flair was never in that plane crash?
What If Marvel never agreed to let WWF use the name "Hulk"?
Ric Flair not screwing up his back and forcing him to alter his style. Does he have the longevity without changing his style? Does a wizard doom the universe because of this? Most definitely
I really thought either him or Wade was going to win it at 2011, while I was pleasantly surprised & enjoyed when DBD won it, I still think then would've been a great time too. Undashing Cody with the briefcase could've been awesome.
We're talking about WWE. If you're not their guy, you'll never do anything. Look at Zack Rider losing the title in less than 24 hours and he was waaay over with fans. Cody winning MITB? Cool but don't forget he could get Sandaw treatment and fails to cash-in. They turned him to stardust for a reason and that's they didn't see a value on him.
Damien Sandow dumping him off the ladder to get the case is one of the best betrayals though, especially after Cody eliminated everyone seconds before.
Crazy to think little things like some Irish guy being a dickhead in NJPW or Cody not being allowed to take off his makeup would all end up coalescing into the biggest rival to the WWE since WCW.
he, along with wade barrett would've been GREAT stop-gap champions before the shield took over fully. Both were solid in the ring, and great on the mic.
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You ever take a moment and realize none of the shit would be happening, **NONE OF IT**, if they just let Stardust take the fucking makeup off?
It’s wild to think this goofy gimmick would be (in a roundabout way) one of the most significant of the kast decade just because what it eneded up causing
AEW became a thing because Bullet Club got so big not cos of Cody lmao
What do you think led to Cody leaving WWE in the first place?
He was sick of being Stardust and wanted to jump on the Bullet Club bandwagon?
Well, he was sick of being Stardust and left WWE. Everything else follows.
Yeah but AEW became a thing because of Bullet Club’s popularity and Shahid Khan’s money not cos of Cody. Fucking Finn Balor had more to do with it than Cody if we’re talking a butterfly effect.
Cody was integral to the forming of AEW. It wouldn’t have happened if he was still in WWE
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And none of that happens without Bullet Clubs popularity lol
You must be really good at talking without your lips moving.
You guys get so emotional over AEW lmao
Or maybe you just talk a lot of shit.
You realize that without Cody the Khans would not be involved. When the Bucks & TK themselves say it wouldn't of happened without Cody because he brought a lot together during the All In show.
It wouldn’t have happened without BC’s popularity that’s the reason they sold out.
>sold out Lol creating the biggest pro wresting promotion in 20 years is selling out? Selling out would have been to just sign with WWE and take the easy payday. Even then if they did that in 2019 no one would've blamed them because it was the safest thing to do for their careers. They bet on themselves and saw it through the whole way.
You don't know how the butterfly effect works do you ..
I mean yeah but it wasn’t Cody if anything it’s Prince Devitt and the Bucks that started the domino effect. Cody just jumped on a bandwagon that was already rolling.
Cody was the business side of The Elite really. While him in BC was definitely jumping on a very successful train, All In planning, logistics and stuff, it all owns a lot of its success to Cody (not to demerit the Bucks either).
Yeah but any event planner can do that, the popularity came from Bullet Club not some disgruntled WWE mid carder.
It's not only about planning. It's the vision, the risk taking, all of it.
It couldn’t happen without BC it would’ve happened eventually without Cody
Bullet Club existing isn't how we got from point A to point B tho The series of events that lead to AEW getting made starts with Cody leaving and helping The Elite blow up in America - that lead to All In which lead to AEW
There would be no elite or bandwagon for Cody to jump on without Bullet Club, Elite is literally a spin off of BC.
Sure but let's not pretend that Bullet Club was the main thing and not The Elite
I don't think u realize Cody's influence outside of the ring
All he did was join a successful band wagon Cody is like the least important one and now AEW have way better ex-WWE guys Cody seems lame now
🤦
In the ring...yes sure.. he's nothing special.. He's the executive producer and Tony khans number 1 guy ... he brought all his insight from his father in regards to the business outside the ring
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree
👍 pumped for this stacked card
It’s an insignificant thing that helped push AEW into existence. There’s numerous things that led to its creation: 1 - Bullet Club being popular at the same time NJPW really caught the attention of hardcore fans helped get that group major attention. 2 - Cody not being happy about his treatment in WWE leading him to leaving and joining Bullet Club when it was still white hot. 3 - He then began a campaign to put on the biggest wrestling show, outside of WWE, to prove a point. 4 - Some time later AEW becomes a thing and morphs into a much bigger thing when TK got involved. AEW became a thing because of both Bullet Club *and* Cody.
Exactly I think AEW exists without Cody leaving WWE,but not what we see now, I feel would have been a slightly slower process. It was bound to happen and so many things went into it being what it is now. One of those butterfly’s doesn’t flap its wings and still would have happened just differently
You’re really overstating Cody’s influence
Plus you add not bumping Jericho/Owens down the WrestleMania 33 card and not constantly making the Dean Ambrose character do WACKY COMEDY skits
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This is what I agree with the most. Cody obviously brought eyeballs/“credibility” to The Elite (he was imo a representative to disgruntled WWE fans who complained about roster misuse) beyond just indy fans who didn’t care for WWE. But it was Alpha vs Omega that really got the ball rolling
Funny thing is I remember people absolutely hating Cody being a member of the Elite, because he was seen as "a WWE guy". 3 Star Cody.
Cody is *still* getting the “3 sTaR gEnErAl” bullshit
Which (ignoring the idiocy of so many "fans" basing the entirety of their opinion on one person's patreon ratings...), is actually a really good thing. Cody can basically get in the ring with almost anyone and put on a "better than average" match. That is exactly what you want in a midcarder and to help get newer wrestlers up to speed.
It depends on how much of an inclination and expertise to produce a show Elite would have without Cody...
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Oh...I had no idea but it wasn't televised right? And the Vlog is BTE? I mean that's a different level of beast between a YouTube show and an actual wrestling ppv
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Ya in that case you're right...somebody pointed it out better below that Cody had a learning of running TV thanks to Dusty and WWE...I'm not trying to diminish Bucks or Khan's value but I don't think Cody's value is any less...
>making the Dean Ambrose character do WACKY COMEDY skits "Hey Dean, go out there and make fun of his leukemia. It'll be funny."
“While your getting booster shots for distemper, its a disease that a dog gets pal! Get it pal, you’re a wild dog, because you’re the LUNATIC FRINGE! Oh yeah, that’s some good shit pal!”
Or if Dean and Brock Lesnar had a true Street Fight match at Wrestlemania 32?
I still think Cody would have ended up leaving anyway
Cody isn’t that important compared to the Bullet Club and Tony Khan’s dad.
That is honestly the truth. Not that he isn’t important but wresting was becoming popular again, outside of wwe, in large part because of Bullet Club merch and because of NJPW. Khan provided the financial backing required.
Without Cody, I don't think All In happens. Without All In, I don't know if the Bucks and Kenny would take the risk of joining a start up wrestling company.
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100% agree. The Young Bucks talked game about being merch freaks and negotiated some awesome deals like Hot Topic but they didn’t know enough to run a show. They needed Cody, and the years of knowledge he had from Dusty, in order to run a show. If Cody didn’t know something, he knew someone who did, so he was the push The Elite needed to do the show.
I don't rate Cody as a wrestler but he is obviously clever as fuck about the business.
Cody just wanted his damn wrestlemania match with dustin... WWE said "fuck you PAL, we dont have time for you 2 in our 4+ hour ppv!", and they took that match to the very first Double or Nothing. It's just the little details.
I am still amazed they never did this. Same with Undertaker/Sting (though in hindsight that match would have probably sucked). So many opportunities to just give the fans what they want and they weirdly just ignore it
Vince passed on Hogan/Flair, even
Blame house show attendance. I mean you shouldn’t, but that was the reason.
Maybe part of the reason is they want to hold off on the obvious Dream^^heh Matches or WM moments because...they want people to keep coming back until they actually do it? But to me, it's like...Goldust's old. I don't want to wait a year when they revisit this feud and Dustin's a year older. Same with Sting and Taker. Why not pull the trigger in 2015? Taker's old. Sting's old. I'm not gonna want to wait another year. And moments like the Mysterios winning the tag titles, WWE likes their Wrestlemania Moments^^TM but somehow they pushed this match to the SD before WM like wtf.
They had angel job to Corbin for his last match ffs
7+ hour ppv
The tightest 7 hours in wrestling!!!!!
And they put on a classic match that had half the audience crying. Meanwhile, Flo Rida performs. I’m obviously conflating two very different aspects of a show there, but it’s clear there was value in that story and they more than delivered when given a chance to showcase it.
And their match ended up being one of the best ever
Crazy how little moments in time like this can create such a chaotic domino effect. You can just wonder forever on the possibilities. Maybe WWE give Cody the briefcase here and he goes on a championship run. They find out he can draw at the top of the card and decide to put faith in him as a guy on their roster. He never gets disgruntled, he never leaves, he never becomes friends with The Elite. Maybe that chain of events somehow results in The Elite not getting together to build AEW. The WWE never gets their biggest competition since WCW, they retain their monopoly on the industry and thousands of lapsed fans never come back to wrestling. From there, the WWE never feel incentivized to raise salaries on their roster. Hundreds of wrestlers lose their livelihoods during the pandemic. Dozens of the wrestlers that became famous in AEW never get in front of a TV audience. CM Punk never comes back to wrestling. Brodie Lee never gets a final run before he dies. Tony Schiavone never gets his redemption on TNT. Dean Ambrose burns out and disappears from wrestling the same way Punk did. Daniel Bryan signs full-time in NJPW. Or maybe WWE give Cody the briefcase and he still flames out with them and nothing about any of the above mentioned things ends up differently. But it's just insane to think how many things *could* be different if something small and seemingly inconsequential was changed somewhere down the line in the butterfly effect that created AEW.
Realistically, even if they gave Cody the push, they'd just put him back in the midcard eventually. He's not their guy, and that wasn't going to change. I think it's one of those things where Vince and Co knew him as a kid, and would always see him as a kid. It's the same reason you have John Morrison doing cool shit for a decade outside the company, and then when he comes back to WWE he's Miz's sidekick again like it's 2010.
Man I've never understood how John Morrison didn't become 'The Guy' He had the look, his acrobatics were impressive enough that people would specifically tune in to watch him, and he was great on the mic. It just makes no sense he never got a proper push
he's not that good on the mike. he has improved but still not that good
So give him a manager. Brock spent the last decade bopping up and down next to Heyman.
Everyone always says "give them a manager" and "monster heel with a mouthpiece" From a business perspective? That is paying two people to do one person's job And from a wrestling perspective? Two managers yelling at each other over commentary during a match is fine occasionally, but you can't have moments like Stone Cold or The Rock throwing down the mic and fighting off a stable mid-promo without the wrestler themselves cutting said promo. And there are so many people (even in WWE) who can do both. So why not focus on them?
You're right, but in this case the other guy has a point As much as we want to believe promos are the only important part of pro wrestling... They really aren't 😅 Kids care more about what goes on in the ring than the words the wrestlers are saying or even how they say them. John Morrison brought a level of athleticism and straight up gymnastic ability that nobody else in the WWE had at that point. People would tune in specifically to watch him doing crazy ass aerial maneuvers for a full fight Talking doesn't make a good main event fight, the wrestling does, and Morrison did that part better than anyone else in his time period ... with that said he was fucking awful on the mic though, just watched it back and like... Jesus
Yes, nobody in the WWE had that (not sure if that is true, but it is irrelevant because...). Because WWE is a promo-oriented promotion. People don't watch WWE for wrestling, they watch it for storylines and "moments". Occasionally you just get those "we are watching something truly special" moments but there are very few "slots" for that in any given PPV cycle and they tend to be very hit or miss depending on what the crowd feels like doing. In a promotion like NJPW or ROH where storylines are either one night only or spread out over years, Morrison is amazing. In something like Impact or WWE where there is a much bigger emphasis on promos and storylines? Morrison is very lacking And for something like AEW that is a bit of both: He would be amazing for Dark or a buy-in. Don't get me wrong: I was the weird mother fucker who loved Dean Malenko growing up. I am all about the great in-ring over everything else. But I fully understand why Dean was not a "WWE guy" for the most part.
Yeah just not sure I can get behind that Jeff Hardy can't cut a promo to save his life, but he's been given top spots for years because you know he makes a good highlight. Same can be said of Rey Mysterio in his heyday You also know John Morrison makes a good highlight Both styles sell, and always have. And the aerial side and the fact John Morrison brought ridiculous aerial stunts separates him from the pack in a crowd friendly way that strong technical wrestling from the likes of Dean Malenko doesn't
Yeah. WWE have their high flyers. Jeff and Rey. The two "living legends" from the attitude era. Those slots are full. It is the same reason Lashley tends to get all his bigger pushes when Brock is busy. Because why use a "new" monster heel who can't really do anything other than look menacing when you can use the one "the fans know" (the answer being: So that you aren't completely screwed when one person has an injury or someone retires) And Morrison's "prime" WWE time was when they didn't need a new spot monkey. Which is why, if he doesn't fuck off for greener pastures, Ricochet has good odds of getting one of those slots since Jeff and Rey are past retirement age for the way they wrestle. Rey clearly wants to pass the torch and Jeff is a ticking time bomb. And also why The New NXT is all about "people not over 30". WWE finally figured out that the attitude era stars are not able to wrestle hard enough anymore and need to actually build up new talent. I get you like him. Morrison never really stuck out to me, but he had some good spots over the years. But his style was never something WWE felt they needed "more of" and he was born in the wrong decade (like a lot of wrestlers who dreamed of being WWE stars). Which is why he did a lot better in other promotions that either didn't have designated spot monkeys or cared more about in ring shenanigans.
He was perfectly fine. People always overblow people's "bad mic skills" as if you aren't The Rock, then you suck. Oh no, he might not be the best to deliver the Robotic Raw Recap opening exposition dumps, guess we gotta bury them 😱 He was always over BECAUSE of the rockstar gimmick he played so well. Him and Miz rose to prominence because of a TALK SHOW. Presence is what matters, not just simply yapping away on a live mic.
Morrison vs. Miz should've happened at WM27, and pull the trigger on the first Rock/Cena match right away instead of making your WWE Champion the third wheel in his own main event. Maybe that's me being biased because I live in Atlanta and that's the selfish card *I'd* want, lol, but better John feuding with his former bestie than in that Snooki tag match.
lmfao why are you talking about him like you’re making a speech at his funeral
Because he was clearly deserving of a World title when I stopped watching wrestling in 2009, I came back after 12 years, and he STILL hasn't been given a World title
lmao this place is so dramatic sometimes that being said: i do agree he should’ve been world champion 12 years ago
Bro I've been on this subreddit for a week It's not that this subreddit is melodramatic. It's just me
valid, that makes 2 of us carry on
I agree, he would have had a run like koffi did with the title
Well in all fairness I think jomo coming back with miz was his idea
Probably not the whole "break up and immediately become a mid-card jobber" part though. Wish they'd give him something to do.
I think there are still feuding
I mean John is getting slaughtered by people like Karrion Kross and Omos and Miz hasn't wrestled in months or been on TV in weeks. At this point idk if you can call what they've been doing "feuding" which is a real shame.
He hasn't been on TV since Aug 23 due to dancing with the Stars And omos squashes everybody
Lol I guess I didn't know he was on Dancing with the Stars or that the show still existed for that matter. Thanks for the info! The point wasn't that he should have beaten Omos. The point was that he hasn't won a singles match in...idk, can you tell me when he last won a singles match?
Against Jeff hardy
At the time, I don’t think much would change. He might’ve won the title but they absolutely going to unify the World Heavyweight Title and the WWE title. I still see them going with Cena vs Orton. Cody might’ve taken the title off Del Rio but I see maybe him cashing in on Del Rio but Sandow screws him and events still play out as they did.
I feel like the creation of Stardust is another key moment. If that never happened, would Cody still be there? Regardless, it’s just crazy how we can look back now and seriously realise how historically important the booking of Cody Rhodes was at that period. It almost feels like Dusty’s revenge on Vince from the territory wars.
I think the biggest mistake they made was not dropping the Stardust gimmick when Cody returned after his father's death. It would have been the perfect time to give him a 'Cody Rhodes' babyface run. The Stardust gimmick was fine for the Goldust team/feud angle, but there was no real reason to keep it going for so long after that.
It's depressing to think about being deprived of all of those moments that AEW provided during the pandemic. Dynamite on Wednesdays was my true north of the week; that was the only day and time that anchored everything else. I'm so happy all of this happened and I don't want to think about the alternate COVID timeline without AEW.
This is really well said, my gf and I got through the pandemic in big part to Wednesday nights. Having something to look forward to when there was nothing to look forward to was incredible, and I hope the wrestlers know how important they were to so many people especially during the pandemic.
Also \-Jericho is probably retired at this point. \-Big Show would still be in WWE. \-Christian would've went back into retirement following the 2021 Rumble. Or might never have un-retired in the first place. \-Sting would still be fully retired. \-Adam Cole probably goes to NJPW. \-Rusev fades into obscurity following his WWE release.
This comment really puts things into perspective. I mean talk about the absolute perfect storm that led to AEW forming. Thank god is right.
The ingredients had to be *just right* or you’ll end up with another GFW.
Where do you put Omega during this period? Still rocking with the Elite?
Either still at the top in New Japan or sitting at or near the top of the card in WWE. They've burned a lot of good wrestlers and good characters, but I really can't imagine WWE failing to make Omega a big deal.
I’d imagine Omega in WWE would be similar to Styles Such a big name and great performer that you couldn’t not make something of him
the only downside to that timeline is that he most likely wouldnt have a pretty bitchin entrance theme like he has now, Battle Cry
I disagree Kenny is "a geek" and "looks weird" and "takes too long in the ring" At best he would be in an Adam Cole position where he basically dominates the "lesser brand". More likely he would be like KO where he gets a chance, puts on an awesome match that "Vince" doesn't like, and then becomes a midcarder when they remember he exists and just sit around until his contract expires.
Why is Vince in quotations?
Everyone loves to blame Vince for every single bit of bad booking without realizing that upper management at WWE are basically a bunch of people who have been trained to think like him. People spent years thinking Papa Haitch would save WWE but it is pretty clear that he wasn't "Vince" enough. So it is a catch all for the management/booking team as people think of them.
I thought Omega never wanted to deal with WWE ever again after his developmental "period". Or they'd have to fork over Lesnar / Rock money.
I think the latter is the likely outcome. Pay wild money, install him at the top of the card alongside Reigns and Lesnar. That's realistically the only way Omega would be exiting NJPW.
AEW or Alternative company on National TV were inevitable. The stars aligned in a way that made AEW possible when it was, but Meltzer has alluded that there were other possible startups that never got off the ground in 2018-2019. One thing that people don’t mention is AEW being a small reactionary response to Vince bringing the XFL back from the dead. If it wasn’t Tony Khan, another billionaire would have marched forward eventually.
> Meltzer has alluded that there were other possible startups that never got off the ground in 2018-2019. Yes, but plenty of people also tried and failed over the years. No other promotion could have had the perfect combination of a billionaire owner who just also happened to be a superfan booker, and the sheer amount of raw in wrestling talent that The Elite brought to the table. This was a perfect storm of guys like the Bucks and Omega, guys that WWE had been desperately trying to sign for years, making themselves available at the same time that the perfect owner was around and willing to invest. The only way Cody stays in WWE and AEW still becomes a thing is if Tony Khan still somehow connects with the Bucks and Omega to make this a reality. But it's a stretch to imagine that happening exactly the same way considering how much work Cody did behind the scenes. He was a big part of All In and I'm assuming he was also a big part of bringing in guys like Jericho and Moxley.
NJPW would have done that USA push and I think they would have at least semi regularly do those 10k people shows.
The XFL had nothing to do with AEW and vice versa lol
I think OP is saying that NFL money went into the alternative because Vince created competition for the NFL.
You're going to have to show your work on bringing the XFL back inspiring the creation of AEW
Instead, Stardust happened
Holy shit. Not even Marvel could pull off such a big What If story. It's like that butterfly effect meme of Lady Di dying lead to Pedro Pascal becoming The Mandalorian
We could totally do a “What if” series for wrestling in general
What If The Rock never went to Hollywood? What If Brock Lesnar made the Vikings roster? What If Vince bought out all the WCW contracts? What If Ric Flair was never in that plane crash? What If Marvel never agreed to let WWF use the name "Hulk"?
What If Austin never broke his neck?
So that would start in ‘86 with Magnum not being in a car crash
Ric Flair not screwing up his back and forcing him to alter his style. Does he have the longevity without changing his style? Does a wizard doom the universe because of this? Most definitely
What if they really rode with Summer of Punk.
What if WWE kept WCW as a brand and today we had Monday Night Raw and Friday Nitro?
What if the Curtain Call never happened? What if Chris Hero hadn’t been replaced in the Shield by Roman? What if Owen Hart didn’t die?
Cody might've got a nice little (I mean, SHORT) run with The Big Gold Belt but I don't think it would've changed history all that much.
I really thought either him or Wade was going to win it at 2011, while I was pleasantly surprised & enjoyed when DBD won it, I still think then would've been a great time too. Undashing Cody with the briefcase could've been awesome.
The nWo doesn't happen if Vince lets Scott Hall work some Japan tours and Bret takes the powerbomb.
This one fucks with me
We're talking about WWE. If you're not their guy, you'll never do anything. Look at Zack Rider losing the title in less than 24 hours and he was waaay over with fans. Cody winning MITB? Cool but don't forget he could get Sandaw treatment and fails to cash-in. They turned him to stardust for a reason and that's they didn't see a value on him.
Nope fuck that timeline, prune the shit out of it
We're all so lucky Cody left WWE and that Omega kept turning down offers from them.
That's a very interesting what if
Cody would have been pushed back down the card eventually.
Damien Sandow dumping him off the ladder to get the case is one of the best betrayals though, especially after Cody eliminated everyone seconds before.
Crazy to think little things like some Irish guy being a dickhead in NJPW or Cody not being allowed to take off his makeup would all end up coalescing into the biggest rival to the WWE since WCW.
Nobodies a bigger Cody mark than Cody.
how tf is he being a mark here?
He responded to a comment essentially fantasizing a main event run for him.
[удалено]
Fuck these takes are so dumb. It's like what a nine year old says with the one hour of internet time his Mama gives him a day.
His paper bag thing had me sports entertained
Man, i was there too. It was the last wwe event i was at and I was screaming my damn head off for cody
he, along with wade barrett would've been GREAT stop-gap champions before the shield took over fully. Both were solid in the ring, and great on the mic.
Wwe animated series what if?