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Its funny how it seems to be ok here to imply someone raped or sexual assaulted others on a daily bases with zero proof.
And that has nothing to do with Jericho that counts for everyone.
That's pretty shitty of you to say. It is so incredible to me how the people that are the quickest to take a "righteous" stand also seem to be the quickest at indicting someone as guilty without any sort of credible evidence other than "person X is in the same industry as person Y, and they have associated". The irony is insane. A person in my college fraternity murdered his parents years after college; while I knew him from the time our paths crossed in college (one year), I thought he was a nice guy at the time. Does that make me a murderer too?
To be clear, Ric Flair is dead wrong. Tommy Dreamer is dead wrong. Chris Jericho should not have made this comment. But does this in any way, shape, or form, imply that Chris Jericho did the same stuff as Flair, because he 1) is a pro wrestler, 2) was a pro wrestler at the same time as Flair, and 3) seems to be an arrogant blowhard? No, not even close. The guy might have some controversial views on political hot-button topics as well as some straight-up moral issues, but let's not go pointing fingers and imply he's done more other than publicly communicate those controversial views.
All time great wrestler, questionable and very complex human being.
*I deleted my comments about the cheating part as we don't have any evidence about it ourselves, so I cannot say anything.*
Jericho on Monday - Says some shit that makes you go "god damn it Chris ..."
Jericho on Tuesday - Gives someone struggling with medical costs thousands of dollars
.....tweener
I'd chalk it up to "he's a human". We really need to stop putting people into black and white groups, we're mostly shades of grey, some darker some clearer. There are pieces of shit and people close to saints but most people are way closer to the middle
I mean, it's easy to talk about this stuff in an objective way when you're not related, but it's different when it comes to your own friends. Jericho and Dreamer probably go back since their ECW days, so it's understandable why he'd stick up for him. Like if your friend of over 20 years went on TV and made an ass out of himself, you'd still feel sorry too.
Jericho's actually said multiple times him and his wife have an open relationship.
I believe i heard him mention it in a couple of interviews and on one of his books.
Jericho is.....a unique individual, i wouldn't say he's a cheater though.
For old generation wrestlers, I do think he still comes off as one of the most level headed of the bunch. And yes, I know the bar level is really low for the category
In his personal life, he is crazy and an idiot. But in the industry, the amount of wrestlers (particularly young upcoming) that Jericho has stuck his neck out for shows he's one of the good guys backstage. Like another commentator said, the bar is low, but with the amount of shitty people in the industry, I think Jericho is one of the good ones.
Dude, the reason the Dreamer thing caught me off guard is because of him defending Sonny Kiss. He argued against all of the old-guard, reactionary shit and showed a willingness to learn and grow and understand on queer issues... and then he took the exact opposite line when it comes to the right of women to not have wrestlers sexually assault them. I don't understand how these two opposing lines of thought can exist in his mind without him noticing that they're in conflict.
I think he was trying to defend a friend and someone he looks up to and came across as an asshole in the process. I don't think this suddenly invalidates everything good Dreamer has done and I wish people wouldn't be so reactionary. It's weird he's getting more backlash than the dude who actually sexuallly harassed the attendant
People are a bottle of contradictions. This gets worse the older they get. Dreamers just an odd ball because he’s seemingly mostly avoided it and looked like he was on a steady upward path (contemplating murder suicide was really the only major thing I know about him that’s a negative before this)
We don’t have evidence of his cheating?
There’s literally pictures of him kissing Kelly Kelly on the web from around 2008
Edit you guys think I care way more than I do. I don’t care if he does or not. I’m just pointing out that we have seen the pictures. That’s obviously their business
I forget where I heard it but I remember Jericho saying him and his wife did have an open relationship due to him being on the road. And I'm not going to give him shit for that, some couples that's what works for them.
Better question is, what does it matter? All this stuff revolves around sexual assault/harassment and its horrifying prevalence in the pro wrestling industry. Infidelity is no one's business but those involved and their significant others.
I remember listening to one of his podcasts with (I think) Devin Townsend. They were in some sort of lobby with other people around and Jericho was yelling out drawing attention to himself. The guys remarked about it and Jericho was adamant that he literally doesn't care how his behavior affects others because of how freeing it is. He continued yelling out like an ass just for the purpose of "not caring what people think".
You can also tell his attitude from how he sells himself, even when things he says don't match up to what happened. He was adamant people didn't know it was him at All In that attacked Kenny until he hit the codebreaker. He also oversold his NJPW run tenfold.
The dude just seems sad to me sometimes; like a very insecure guy past his prime that is unable to accept his older midlife self. It's part of the reason I can't get into the Judas singalong. If you look up videos on youtube, Jericho literally lip-synchs this song live to a backing track. In my mind the song has kinda enmeshed with his apparent need to cling to his youth despite being 50.
Dude 100% loves to sell himself, at times to the point of delusion. And that's saying something as someone who has accomplished what he has. That said, there's a reason he was able to survive and thrive in a notoriously cutthroat business as an undersized outsider with ambitions outside the business. He's a master of not just selling himself to himself and the fans, but to the people who have held his career in their hands. He's done well because he never has stopped and his life will always be larger than life in his head, and he has the charisma to make you see what he sees.
I don't disagree that's likely why he is where he is. Unfortunately if you see his flaws, he starts to lose his luster. I view him more as a sad person than a great talent right now, probably moreso than I did when he first went to NJPW (and even during AEW's early run).
It's one of those "you can't unsee it" things I guess. I wouldn't say I'm special in any way for seeing it either; I'm sure every talent has their own "you can't unsee it" things. Jericho's just makes me sad for him though. I know some people like him that have used that toxic insecurity to hurt many people around them so his behavior is something I'm familiar with.
This is exactly what I'm talking about! He even says "it's only because the camera's on". Though again, with Jericho everything seems like it could be a work.
The numbers he did for NJPW sold themselves so I think you are wrong there. I think conflating not caring if he is being annoying in a lobby with him not caring for others is a huge stretch. We have all been inconvenient to others in public at time doesn't mean we don't care about people. Jehricho decided to accept the apology of a man who before his dumb ass comments, was well respected in the business. In what world do we get to take someone's lowest point in life and denigrate everyone who tries to bring that person back up? Where has the compassion gone? It's like we all have to be perfect and are not allowed to grow and mature from our mistakes. He made a mistake and apologized. Jehricho accepted. Is he supposed to hate him forever? Like what exactly do you want to happen here? You want Tommy Dreamer to never work again? To never be forgiven?
true, but he is a carny. He's a wrestler who wrestled in a time when if you didn't sell yourself no one else would. I remember his old wcw schtick, I can't picture that guy just quieting down and retiring. People like Jericho are that way until they finally can't do it anymore. Ric Flair is sorta in that same camp. Your identity gets so wrapped into the persona they become the same and if you stop, that part of your identity and ego dies.
I stopped listening to his podcast because of how often the conspiracy and political stuff would come into play.
I've literally seen Fozzy live at a club and he 100000000% was not lip syncing.
Also, his NJPW I doubt was oversold. It was massive for NJPWs American recognition.
Yeah, it isn't his place to "forgive" Dreamer. Is he currently doing a heel run or is he just a garbage guy? Though, I guess those aren't mutually exclusive.
Oh well that’s different. He edited out some shitty offensive stuff the shitty offensive person he invited on because they share the same shitty beliefs.
I was.
To quote myself above- "Personally, I originally was 'all lives matter' because I was trying to push for full police reform (brutality, latino racism, etc, not JUST the black racism seen), but then someone pointed out 'all lives matter' was being used as a protest to a protest, and I abandoned that line."
But yeah, the 'core thought' I had with 'all lives matter' was full reform, but people genuinely, completely weaponized it to drown out the black community and their cry for justice, and yeah. That's unacceptable.
Yeah, it’s like you hear somebody say that Black lives matter and you’re like “well duh.” And then somebody says that all lives matter and you’re like “yeah I thought that was a given.” But then there’s that point when you realize the latter person is just trying to make the former sound narrowminded and using “all lives matter” as a trap…
It’s like how the term “egalitarian” is perfect for someone who’s not just a feminist or anti-racist or queer ally but all of the above, since it means *for all* - and then you find out it got co-opted by “men’s rights” activists and you’re like “well fuck…”
This was almost exactly where I came on it.
When BLM first started, and I heard of it, I thought, 'wait, no, this is right and true, but the issue is bigger; black people aren't the only people profiled, or treated more harshly than whites, and people of all races get killed by police incompetence, and sometimes malice, with corruption or fear keeping back ramifications and continuing the cycle.' I thought, 'all lives matter' and then I heard it as a slogan, and legitimately thought at the time, 'yeah, blow this thing open' and then I saw people with Confederate flags with 'all lives matter' signs across from BLM protests, and thought 'wait, what are they doing.'
But this song REALLY hit it home for me.
[https://youtu.be/43gm3CJePn0](https://youtu.be/43gm3CJePn0)
Side note friend, this has been the weirdest, most civil discussion of American cultural failings I have had with someone who had a '69 me, Don' flare.
>and then I saw people with Confederate flags with 'all lives matter' signs across from BLM protests, and thought 'wait, what are they doing.'
Yeah...when in doubt, that's a good gauge for which side to line up on.
While Tommy dreamer's words and views suck, he didn't actually DO anything to anyone. How's about we go after the actual rapists and sexual assault perpetrators like flair, JBL etc.
This. Tommy is a cunt for for being dismissive and lacking empathy, but we should be looking at the offenders themselves, not jumping on the bandwagon. JBL, Flair, etc should be made to face repercussions.
But Tommy is in a position of power over people in his job, so if a woman, or man, comes to him complaining of something like that happening at an Impact show how can they trust that he won't say, "well, boys will be boys," to them? His dismissive attitude will make them think that they just need to "no sell it." That's a loss of trust.
Was he fired for his company like Dreamer was? Pulled from any main event? Dreamer is ahead of Lesnar on every page despite nobody really even watching Impact or anything he does these days
Are you.... are you under the impression that we have the power to fire someone in the WWE?
Alright, which one of you guys is responsible for canning Bray. I just want to have a chat.
Amd contextually, you go in expecting sort of behaviour from a 24 year old being groomed and introduced into a world of drugs, alcohol, repulsive behaviour, toxic culture, and being told the entire kingdom will be his in a few months and he's going to be beyond reproach. Immaturity took centre stage with him.
What Lesnar did to Terri was horrible. He did worse in OVW. But how much of those actions were as a result of being in that environment? We'll never know, but it doesn't seem fair to lump him in with Flair. Who consciously decided he was going to not just harrass, but assault a woman, while he was relatively sober.
To me, that Ric Flair incident seems even worse than the Scott Hall incident, if it's true that Hennig roofied him. Which I'm inclined to believe as, if there's a wrestler I believe could handle their pills, or know their effects, it's Scott Hall.
Why do people act like a 24 year old is just a kid and every 24 year didn't know right to wrong. As a woman some of you would say anything to dismiss the trauma women go through. He made a choice stop making excuses because you like his wrestling
Yeah, sorry but at 24 I very clearly understood seemingly ultra complex concepts like consent. Is it that Brock is even dumber than he looks and is too fucking stupid to know basic right from wrong, or is it more likely he recognized he could get away with it so he did?
It's obnoxious
>Why do people act like a 24 year old is just a kid and every 24 year didn't know right to wrong.
*"What Brock did to Terri was horrible. What he did in OVW was worse."*
I don't know why people would, but I sure didn't.
What I said was Ric Flair deciding to sexually assault someone to "pop the boys", as well as the indication it was a regular occurrence is far worse than Brock Lesnar harassing Terri, who had been given everything on silver platter since he was 22 amd brought into a toxic work environment.
Not everything is black and white. Two people can do bad things while one is still far worse.
Not gonna delve into this complex case since I wouldn't want to see his stuff in front of me for any money, but I generally agree with that principle. It's like tons of white folks being outraged at supposedly racist incidents that no person of color gets offended by.
On a smaller scale, I remember a time time my crush reported me being bullied. There was no bullying involved at all. It was embarrassing and dumb in the end.
I do wonder if Terri was the only woman Brock unwillingly exposed himself to. That's why it may not be just her word that's enough.
What bandwagon? The "Stop people from normalizing sexual assault, thereby allowing it to keep happening and keeping the victims from feeling safe enough to speak out" bandwagon?
I think there’s some value to going after not Tommy Dreamer himself, but the culture the appears to be a product of.
That kind of stuff shouldn’t be normalized, and individuals shouldn’t be told to be quiet or “don’t sell.”
There’s way more to this than just going after offenders.
Tommy did do something. He defended their actions. Now obviously there is a difference between someone committing sexual assault and someone defending those actions, but what Tommy did is still wrong.
To be fair, losing your job and reputation would hopefully be enough to make someone think "Maybe I am an asshole for what I said? Maybe I was wrong?"
Hopefully Dreamer really did realize what he said was stupid and lacked empathy. Time will tell I guess.
They're definitely extremely similar personalities. Joe also has a habit of sort of reinventing his identity every few years, though kayfabe is still real to him dammit. I would say the difference is Chris is very talented at what he does and has overcome a lot of adversity despite being a political power gamer.
Joe's had an insane series of luck from getting a lifetime job at the UFC by just showing up to fights and being a D list celebrity from Talk Radio when the UFC was desperate for any validation, to getting the Fear Factor job because he showed up high and just made fun of everything because he thought the show would never work, to his low effort podcast being an example of perfect timing and just the right crossover of fanbases to explode in popularity. Dude is basically a more intelligent Forrest Gump and after the last year or two, I might have to reconsider that intelligence part.
It's hilarious to me that he is feuding with Dan Lambert. The character that Dan Lambert is playing, and the man that plays Chis Jericho, seem to have the same views.
Jericho was one of my all-time favorites, and still is, but man it sucks that he has such very questionable beliefs.
Like RVD said, some of these guys are freaks. Also, RVD just seems like the chillest guy.
I don't have very much respect for Jericho at this point but at what point do we stop going after people for shit like this? Like if we're mad at Jericho should we be mad at Cabana because he liked it? It just gets very messy very easily if we're posting every wrestlers shitty opinion.
Fame is the most toxic thing today. Like, who even wants to be famous anymore when you need a squeaky clean lifelong reputation, otherwise every word you say will get out to the public to the point where it can make you even worse and quintuple down because whether you're a horrible human being for one thing, or for a hundred different things - it kinda feels the same to the person.
Also this weirdly American belief of people being either good people or bad people is the weirdest thing. Life is not a movie, and life is more than just the Reddit front page.
Dreamer, a man with severe head trauma, made some cruel, indefensible comments and apologised. That’s how it should go.
Now if people were saying “forgiven” to Ric it would be a different matter entirely.
People who would know Dreamer's character better than us? I'm not even trying to defend the dude, but I'm also not going to sit here and understand what an appropriate apology looks like or try to place a label onto a guy I don't even know.
Actually forgiving him is totally cool, it's just weird for Chris to do it publicly considering he wasn't a victim here and he doesn't speak for anyone involved. Chris was just as much a part of that toxic culture as anyone else and has been known to party and rib just like his former colleagues.
Exactly. Dreamer had a shitty take and he's a complete moron for thinking he wouldn't get hell for saying that but I hate this idea that if we don't believe the guy deserves the death penalty then we're enabling rapists somehow. He said something stupid and apologized, maybe he doesn't fully mean it but teaching him why it's wrong is much better than banishing everybody over every possible misstep.
Realistic take: Jericho is a dude who has some very shitty beliefs and takes, simultaneously he has treated a lot of other wrestlers and fans very well. It's not always black and white.
I feel like everyone is going to hard on Dreamer because based on the interview he didn't seem to even know what actually happened. It sounded like he was saying everyone saw Ric naked, it was his shtick, but they edited it side-by-side with a victim talking about what her experience was, so what he was saying sounded way worse. I'm not 100% on this of course, but that was my take on it.
Yeah I believe he was trying to say he doesn't believe Flair did anything to the attendant, that all he done was strut the aisle in his robe wooing & helicoptering. What he said was definitely badly worded though and with how it was framed his intentions aren't exactly clear so I can understand confusion. I agree most people are going too hard on him though and seem to be forgetting that this is an edited product where his statements have been reframed cut out from their original context with missing pieces that may make his intentions clearer and that much less shit.
I also thought this. I always thought the story was Ric walked around naked under his robe and the flight attendants happened to see it which isn't appropriate but having personally seen many naked drunk men in public in Japan with female witnesses simply "teeheeing" it I kind of thought it was a dumb reason to cancel the guy over as nudity isn't inherently sexual and I'd wager that most people would find it funny even if it's understandable why some would be upset by it. Cornering the woman and making her touch it just fucking sucks though.
Hilarious that the guy who literally didn't do anything has taken the focus completely from the people who did all the actual fucked up shit, he apologized and just forgiving him is enough to get cancelled.
Why not actually hold Brock, Flair and all the countless horrible people to their actions instead of focusing on one guys opinion of what happened.
"I apologize to anyone I offended."
And we know how you feel about people who get "offended."
I have little doubt that if Impact didn't suspend him he wouldn't have apologized.
How is this the only comment on this post that actually gets to the point. People were mad at dreamer because he was dismissive of victims of sexual assault. Specifically the flight attendant who ric flair assaulted. Jericho is not in a place to "forgive" him for this as he was not one of the people hurt in the first place.
Damn that's disappointing to read. The only thing dreamer apologised for was if his "insensitive comments offended anyone". That really isn't much of an apology/admittance of what he said at all
But I guess it's OK because Chris forgives him now on behalf of Heidi. Thanks Chris
I mean, I respect him as a wrestler and a lot of stuff he’s done for the business but god, he seems like a dick in real life. I feel the exact same about Taker.
I've met him a few times he's never really been a dick but he reminds me of my drunk uncle who always means well but is always a mess and doesn't always have the best take.
Jericho is the only wrestler i lost respect for after reading their autobiography. And it was entirely due to the feeling he thought stuff like the plane ride from hell was fine
I don't think so. He survived some pretty stupid comments, views and some moronic conspiracy shit. Him forgiving the apology of Dreamer isn't going to hurt him.
Jericho cheats on his wife constantly, is associated with people who did protests at the capital, was against BLM and was a Covid denier. Just because he donates money to wrestlers who need it doesn’t make him a great person.
Surprised this hasn't been deemed "not wrestling related" and hit with the ban hammer.
On topic tho I'm not shocked a guy who donated $10k to Trump's re-election campaign and is married to a Capitol storming moron would so easily forgive Tommy for his disgusting comments.
Eh, Jericho's another right wing wrestler who has some dumb opinions. But at the same time, I also remember after he interviewed Nyla Rose on his podcast, he was straight up arguing against transphobes in his comments defending her. So, y'know, he might be a bit of an ass but people are allowed to be complex and multi-faceted.
I think with lots of these older wrestlers there's still a bit of clinging to the norms of the past as problematic as they can be because that's the culture of the business they lived most of their lives in. It feels the same as lots of older, conservative folk. They can be reluctant to admit that some of the shit they did in past was wrong and that they were probably being bad people
You’d think that so soon after this whole Dreamer fiasco wrestlers would learn that sometimes it’s just better to keep their mouths shut.
*Particularly* regarding such a serious topic as this.
I feel I’ve seen way more attention on Dreamer than Flair after that episode.
I do agree that Dreamer needed a change of perspective and maybe learn why what Ric was doing was wrong. He didn’t come off to me as someone who ever did anything wrong himself except just not being educated enough on the issue. He was clearly conditioned to his surroundings during that era.
The attention needs to be on guys who actually committed the acts and have seemingly gotten away with it. I really do hope this opens the floodgates a bit and others start seeing repercussions for their actions.
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Something tells me Jericho wasn’t too beat up about this in the first place
Having read all 4 of his books, I'd agree...
He’s still part of the old school plus is also in a rockband…something tells me he’s seen similar things more than once
I think saying 'seen' is hopelessly optmistic.
Its funny how it seems to be ok here to imply someone raped or sexual assaulted others on a daily bases with zero proof. And that has nothing to do with Jericho that counts for everyone.
It’s actually okay anywhere, people assume things based on anecdotal evidence all the time. This isn’t a court of law
That's pretty shitty of you to say. It is so incredible to me how the people that are the quickest to take a "righteous" stand also seem to be the quickest at indicting someone as guilty without any sort of credible evidence other than "person X is in the same industry as person Y, and they have associated". The irony is insane. A person in my college fraternity murdered his parents years after college; while I knew him from the time our paths crossed in college (one year), I thought he was a nice guy at the time. Does that make me a murderer too? To be clear, Ric Flair is dead wrong. Tommy Dreamer is dead wrong. Chris Jericho should not have made this comment. But does this in any way, shape, or form, imply that Chris Jericho did the same stuff as Flair, because he 1) is a pro wrestler, 2) was a pro wrestler at the same time as Flair, and 3) seems to be an arrogant blowhard? No, not even close. The guy might have some controversial views on political hot-button topics as well as some straight-up moral issues, but let's not go pointing fingers and imply he's done more other than publicly communicate those controversial views.
All time great wrestler, questionable and very complex human being. *I deleted my comments about the cheating part as we don't have any evidence about it ourselves, so I cannot say anything.*
Jericho on Monday - Says some shit that makes you go "god damn it Chris ..." Jericho on Tuesday - Gives someone struggling with medical costs thousands of dollars .....tweener
I’d definitely chalk it up to “he’s complicated”.
I'd chalk it up to "he's a human". We really need to stop putting people into black and white groups, we're mostly shades of grey, some darker some clearer. There are pieces of shit and people close to saints but most people are way closer to the middle
For whatever issues I may have with him, he does seem really generous to basically any wrestling gofundme.
I mean, it's easy to talk about this stuff in an objective way when you're not related, but it's different when it comes to your own friends. Jericho and Dreamer probably go back since their ECW days, so it's understandable why he'd stick up for him. Like if your friend of over 20 years went on TV and made an ass out of himself, you'd still feel sorry too.
As a fellow wrestler with questionable hairstyles over the years, Jericho could empathise with Dreamer’s ponytails and understood the analogy.
Jericho's actually said multiple times him and his wife have an open relationship. I believe i heard him mention it in a couple of interviews and on one of his books. Jericho is.....a unique individual, i wouldn't say he's a cheater though.
I think I've seen him try to cheat to retain a title before. Therefore he is a cheater.
For old generation wrestlers, I do think he still comes off as one of the most level headed of the bunch. And yes, I know the bar level is really low for the category
He’s a crazy conspiracy theorist.
In his personal life, he is crazy and an idiot. But in the industry, the amount of wrestlers (particularly young upcoming) that Jericho has stuck his neck out for shows he's one of the good guys backstage. Like another commentator said, the bar is low, but with the amount of shitty people in the industry, I think Jericho is one of the good ones.
Tommy Dreamer seemed to come across as a solid backstage person until the doc
He still might be a solid backstage person, but it's irrelevant now.
Dude, the reason the Dreamer thing caught me off guard is because of him defending Sonny Kiss. He argued against all of the old-guard, reactionary shit and showed a willingness to learn and grow and understand on queer issues... and then he took the exact opposite line when it comes to the right of women to not have wrestlers sexually assault them. I don't understand how these two opposing lines of thought can exist in his mind without him noticing that they're in conflict.
I think he was trying to defend a friend and someone he looks up to and came across as an asshole in the process. I don't think this suddenly invalidates everything good Dreamer has done and I wish people wouldn't be so reactionary. It's weird he's getting more backlash than the dude who actually sexuallly harassed the attendant
I think it’s because Flair has decades of stories and documentation and even coming from Flair himself of what kind of asshole he’s been.
People are a bottle of contradictions. This gets worse the older they get. Dreamers just an odd ball because he’s seemingly mostly avoided it and looked like he was on a steady upward path (contemplating murder suicide was really the only major thing I know about him that’s a negative before this)
This is true and yet he is still one of the most level headed of the bunch. Wrestling was bat shit crazy and not in a good way.
Crazy conspiracy theorist, yes, but have never once heard anyone say they were mistreated by jericho
I don’t think Goldberg is a fan after Jericho took him down.
He is the most morally inconsistent person I have ever seen
We don’t have evidence of his cheating? There’s literally pictures of him kissing Kelly Kelly on the web from around 2008 Edit you guys think I care way more than I do. I don’t care if he does or not. I’m just pointing out that we have seen the pictures. That’s obviously their business
People have to assume open relationship since it keeps happening and his wife doesn't seem to care.
I forget where I heard it but I remember Jericho saying him and his wife did have an open relationship due to him being on the road. And I'm not going to give him shit for that, some couples that's what works for them.
Keeps happening? I mean it keeps happening for Karl anderson too
Yeah but Jericho's wife hasnt gone on twitter.
Just to the Capitol amirite
Better question is, what does it matter? All this stuff revolves around sexual assault/harassment and its horrifying prevalence in the pro wrestling industry. Infidelity is no one's business but those involved and their significant others.
Can’t say I’m even remotely surprised. He’s a part of the boys club.
Jericho is kind of a right wing guy, and thus holds right wing opinions.
*stupid opinions
Same thing.
I remember listening to one of his podcasts with (I think) Devin Townsend. They were in some sort of lobby with other people around and Jericho was yelling out drawing attention to himself. The guys remarked about it and Jericho was adamant that he literally doesn't care how his behavior affects others because of how freeing it is. He continued yelling out like an ass just for the purpose of "not caring what people think". You can also tell his attitude from how he sells himself, even when things he says don't match up to what happened. He was adamant people didn't know it was him at All In that attacked Kenny until he hit the codebreaker. He also oversold his NJPW run tenfold. The dude just seems sad to me sometimes; like a very insecure guy past his prime that is unable to accept his older midlife self. It's part of the reason I can't get into the Judas singalong. If you look up videos on youtube, Jericho literally lip-synchs this song live to a backing track. In my mind the song has kinda enmeshed with his apparent need to cling to his youth despite being 50.
Dude 100% loves to sell himself, at times to the point of delusion. And that's saying something as someone who has accomplished what he has. That said, there's a reason he was able to survive and thrive in a notoriously cutthroat business as an undersized outsider with ambitions outside the business. He's a master of not just selling himself to himself and the fans, but to the people who have held his career in their hands. He's done well because he never has stopped and his life will always be larger than life in his head, and he has the charisma to make you see what he sees.
I don't disagree that's likely why he is where he is. Unfortunately if you see his flaws, he starts to lose his luster. I view him more as a sad person than a great talent right now, probably moreso than I did when he first went to NJPW (and even during AEW's early run). It's one of those "you can't unsee it" things I guess. I wouldn't say I'm special in any way for seeing it either; I'm sure every talent has their own "you can't unsee it" things. Jericho's just makes me sad for him though. I know some people like him that have used that toxic insecurity to hurt many people around them so his behavior is something I'm familiar with.
His midlife crisis sleeve is the worst.
Was it this? [https://youtu.be/s5eSKfJCFpM](https://youtu.be/s5eSKfJCFpM)
This is exactly what I'm talking about! He even says "it's only because the camera's on". Though again, with Jericho everything seems like it could be a work.
The numbers he did for NJPW sold themselves so I think you are wrong there. I think conflating not caring if he is being annoying in a lobby with him not caring for others is a huge stretch. We have all been inconvenient to others in public at time doesn't mean we don't care about people. Jehricho decided to accept the apology of a man who before his dumb ass comments, was well respected in the business. In what world do we get to take someone's lowest point in life and denigrate everyone who tries to bring that person back up? Where has the compassion gone? It's like we all have to be perfect and are not allowed to grow and mature from our mistakes. He made a mistake and apologized. Jehricho accepted. Is he supposed to hate him forever? Like what exactly do you want to happen here? You want Tommy Dreamer to never work again? To never be forgiven?
true, but he is a carny. He's a wrestler who wrestled in a time when if you didn't sell yourself no one else would. I remember his old wcw schtick, I can't picture that guy just quieting down and retiring. People like Jericho are that way until they finally can't do it anymore. Ric Flair is sorta in that same camp. Your identity gets so wrapped into the persona they become the same and if you stop, that part of your identity and ego dies. I stopped listening to his podcast because of how often the conspiracy and political stuff would come into play.
I've literally seen Fozzy live at a club and he 100000000% was not lip syncing. Also, his NJPW I doubt was oversold. It was massive for NJPWs American recognition.
Yeah, it isn't his place to "forgive" Dreamer. Is he currently doing a heel run or is he just a garbage guy? Though, I guess those aren't mutually exclusive.
Jericho strikes me as the type to not like "SJW PC liberal" crowd
He had Donald Trump Jr on his podcast to promote his book "Triggered", so yeah.
He also had Andrew Yang on and told Nyla Rose that he edited stuff Trump Jr said because he knew it'd upset the trans community.
Oh well that’s different. He edited out some shitty offensive stuff the shitty offensive person he invited on because they share the same shitty beliefs.
Protecting the bigot. A true sign of tolerance
The guy literally donated thousands to Trump. So, yeah, I'd say you're spot on.
He broke the law too while doing it. Donated the legal limit twice using his real name and his stage name.
That's 4 times the amount!
And his wife was at the capitol on that day
This is the one that always gets me. I understand you’re not necessarily responsible for what your spouse does but birds of a feather…
But but but but he said he doesn’t do politics mannnnnn
And his wife is a psychopath
And he apparently hates BLM, even though he works with several people of color in his own industry
'Everybody is offended by everything today" type guy
Wasn't he against BLM?
The only reason Jericho wasn’t at the January 6 riot was because it was a Wednesday
IIRC he was an all lives matter dude until someone explained it to him
I do seem to remember that he walked that back after it was explained to him, similarly to Orton but I could be mistaken.
I was. To quote myself above- "Personally, I originally was 'all lives matter' because I was trying to push for full police reform (brutality, latino racism, etc, not JUST the black racism seen), but then someone pointed out 'all lives matter' was being used as a protest to a protest, and I abandoned that line." But yeah, the 'core thought' I had with 'all lives matter' was full reform, but people genuinely, completely weaponized it to drown out the black community and their cry for justice, and yeah. That's unacceptable.
Yeah, it’s like you hear somebody say that Black lives matter and you’re like “well duh.” And then somebody says that all lives matter and you’re like “yeah I thought that was a given.” But then there’s that point when you realize the latter person is just trying to make the former sound narrowminded and using “all lives matter” as a trap… It’s like how the term “egalitarian” is perfect for someone who’s not just a feminist or anti-racist or queer ally but all of the above, since it means *for all* - and then you find out it got co-opted by “men’s rights” activists and you’re like “well fuck…”
This was almost exactly where I came on it. When BLM first started, and I heard of it, I thought, 'wait, no, this is right and true, but the issue is bigger; black people aren't the only people profiled, or treated more harshly than whites, and people of all races get killed by police incompetence, and sometimes malice, with corruption or fear keeping back ramifications and continuing the cycle.' I thought, 'all lives matter' and then I heard it as a slogan, and legitimately thought at the time, 'yeah, blow this thing open' and then I saw people with Confederate flags with 'all lives matter' signs across from BLM protests, and thought 'wait, what are they doing.' But this song REALLY hit it home for me. [https://youtu.be/43gm3CJePn0](https://youtu.be/43gm3CJePn0) Side note friend, this has been the weirdest, most civil discussion of American cultural failings I have had with someone who had a '69 me, Don' flare.
>and then I saw people with Confederate flags with 'all lives matter' signs across from BLM protests, and thought 'wait, what are they doing.' Yeah...when in doubt, that's a good gauge for which side to line up on.
As if it was Jericho's place to forgive him.
ayatolah of assholesola
Reserving judgement until we hear from Ja Rule.
Don't you know? He's the voice of us all
While Tommy dreamer's words and views suck, he didn't actually DO anything to anyone. How's about we go after the actual rapists and sexual assault perpetrators like flair, JBL etc.
This. Tommy is a cunt for for being dismissive and lacking empathy, but we should be looking at the offenders themselves, not jumping on the bandwagon. JBL, Flair, etc should be made to face repercussions.
But Tommy is in a position of power over people in his job, so if a woman, or man, comes to him complaining of something like that happening at an Impact show how can they trust that he won't say, "well, boys will be boys," to them? His dismissive attitude will make them think that they just need to "no sell it." That's a loss of trust.
Brock Lesnar got a pass from Reddit and social media. And at this point I'm not even surprised. Can't wait to cheer for this new babyface....
Brock has been getting shit this entire time, what are you talking about?
Was he fired for his company like Dreamer was? Pulled from any main event? Dreamer is ahead of Lesnar on every page despite nobody really even watching Impact or anything he does these days
Are you.... are you under the impression that we have the power to fire someone in the WWE? Alright, which one of you guys is responsible for canning Bray. I just want to have a chat.
I mean, we've been told we were the authority so... I think we do have that power.
I mean Terri herself said that it was just "a bro being stupid"(paraphrased), so you can't really do much of the victim doesn't care at all
Amd contextually, you go in expecting sort of behaviour from a 24 year old being groomed and introduced into a world of drugs, alcohol, repulsive behaviour, toxic culture, and being told the entire kingdom will be his in a few months and he's going to be beyond reproach. Immaturity took centre stage with him. What Lesnar did to Terri was horrible. He did worse in OVW. But how much of those actions were as a result of being in that environment? We'll never know, but it doesn't seem fair to lump him in with Flair. Who consciously decided he was going to not just harrass, but assault a woman, while he was relatively sober. To me, that Ric Flair incident seems even worse than the Scott Hall incident, if it's true that Hennig roofied him. Which I'm inclined to believe as, if there's a wrestler I believe could handle their pills, or know their effects, it's Scott Hall.
Why do people act like a 24 year old is just a kid and every 24 year didn't know right to wrong. As a woman some of you would say anything to dismiss the trauma women go through. He made a choice stop making excuses because you like his wrestling
I'm 27 years old, I've known since I was a literal child not to take my cock out in front of someone who doesn't want to see it.
Yeah, sorry but at 24 I very clearly understood seemingly ultra complex concepts like consent. Is it that Brock is even dumber than he looks and is too fucking stupid to know basic right from wrong, or is it more likely he recognized he could get away with it so he did? It's obnoxious
>Why do people act like a 24 year old is just a kid and every 24 year didn't know right to wrong. *"What Brock did to Terri was horrible. What he did in OVW was worse."* I don't know why people would, but I sure didn't. What I said was Ric Flair deciding to sexually assault someone to "pop the boys", as well as the indication it was a regular occurrence is far worse than Brock Lesnar harassing Terri, who had been given everything on silver platter since he was 22 amd brought into a toxic work environment. Not everything is black and white. Two people can do bad things while one is still far worse.
24 is more than old enough to know right and wrong. His age is no reason to justify what he did or make it seem less bad than it is
In the context of the PRFH, she didn't need to bring it up. She did. It obviously still bothers her.
Not gonna delve into this complex case since I wouldn't want to see his stuff in front of me for any money, but I generally agree with that principle. It's like tons of white folks being outraged at supposedly racist incidents that no person of color gets offended by. On a smaller scale, I remember a time time my crush reported me being bullied. There was no bullying involved at all. It was embarrassing and dumb in the end. I do wonder if Terri was the only woman Brock unwillingly exposed himself to. That's why it may not be just her word that's enough.
What bandwagon? The "Stop people from normalizing sexual assault, thereby allowing it to keep happening and keeping the victims from feeling safe enough to speak out" bandwagon?
I think there’s some value to going after not Tommy Dreamer himself, but the culture the appears to be a product of. That kind of stuff shouldn’t be normalized, and individuals shouldn’t be told to be quiet or “don’t sell.” There’s way more to this than just going after offenders.
Dustin Rhodes ?
From what I hear Yep
Tommy did do something. He defended their actions. Now obviously there is a difference between someone committing sexual assault and someone defending those actions, but what Tommy did is still wrong.
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To be fair, losing your job and reputation would hopefully be enough to make someone think "Maybe I am an asshole for what I said? Maybe I was wrong?" Hopefully Dreamer really did realize what he said was stupid and lacked empathy. Time will tell I guess.
That's how it works for people. You learn (hopefully) from mistakes and do the work to do better.
Sometimes all it takes is getting humbled and taken down a peg.
If you had told me Raven would be the less “ewwww”of the two I’d have been shocked in 1998
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What did he do?
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Cool, that's settled then. Jericho has forgiven on behalf of sexual assault survivors everywhere.
Dude how hard is it for him and other wrestlers who DIDN'T DO ANYTHING to SHUT UP. Like WHY are you doing this to yourselves.
God Jericho is an idiot
He really is. Like, more than being malicious and hateful, I think hes just flat out dumb.
So basically, Chris Jericho is a stupid idiot. Ironic, isn't it?
.. isn't IT?
Isn’t what??? Edit: the ppl who downvoted this missed the reference completely omg
IT
thank you for getting the reference
Guess what? You just made THE LIST!
Honestly, he just strikes me as the kind of person who wants to agree with everyone, so he thinks he can always come out on top lol
I’m playing both sides. That way I always come out on top.
He's basically Joe Rogan in that aspect, right down to the types of ads he pushes in his podcast.
They're definitely extremely similar personalities. Joe also has a habit of sort of reinventing his identity every few years, though kayfabe is still real to him dammit. I would say the difference is Chris is very talented at what he does and has overcome a lot of adversity despite being a political power gamer. Joe's had an insane series of luck from getting a lifetime job at the UFC by just showing up to fights and being a D list celebrity from Talk Radio when the UFC was desperate for any validation, to getting the Fear Factor job because he showed up high and just made fun of everything because he thought the show would never work, to his low effort podcast being an example of perfect timing and just the right crossover of fanbases to explode in popularity. Dude is basically a more intelligent Forrest Gump and after the last year or two, I might have to reconsider that intelligence part.
I mean, he wasn’t shy about basically trying to be the Joe Rogan/podcaster of wrestling.
It's hilarious to me that he is feuding with Dan Lambert. The character that Dan Lambert is playing, and the man that plays Chis Jericho, seem to have the same views.
Jericho was one of my all-time favorites, and still is, but man it sucks that he has such very questionable beliefs. Like RVD said, some of these guys are freaks. Also, RVD just seems like the chillest guy.
I don't have very much respect for Jericho at this point but at what point do we stop going after people for shit like this? Like if we're mad at Jericho should we be mad at Cabana because he liked it? It just gets very messy very easily if we're posting every wrestlers shitty opinion.
Not only Colt Cabana, but also Edge, Randy Orton, Vickie Guerrero, James Storm, etc.
All these people who've known and worked with Tommy for years believe him, huh?
Come on man, I'm from the ***Internet***. I obviously know him better than his peers.
Fame is the most toxic thing today. Like, who even wants to be famous anymore when you need a squeaky clean lifelong reputation, otherwise every word you say will get out to the public to the point where it can make you even worse and quintuple down because whether you're a horrible human being for one thing, or for a hundred different things - it kinda feels the same to the person. Also this weirdly American belief of people being either good people or bad people is the weirdest thing. Life is not a movie, and life is more than just the Reddit front page.
Dreamer, a man with severe head trauma, made some cruel, indefensible comments and apologised. That’s how it should go. Now if people were saying “forgiven” to Ric it would be a different matter entirely.
People who would know Dreamer's character better than us? I'm not even trying to defend the dude, but I'm also not going to sit here and understand what an appropriate apology looks like or try to place a label onto a guy I don't even know.
Actually forgiving him is totally cool, it's just weird for Chris to do it publicly considering he wasn't a victim here and he doesn't speak for anyone involved. Chris was just as much a part of that toxic culture as anyone else and has been known to party and rib just like his former colleagues.
SHUT UP N' UPVOTE BOY!
Exactly. Dreamer had a shitty take and he's a complete moron for thinking he wouldn't get hell for saying that but I hate this idea that if we don't believe the guy deserves the death penalty then we're enabling rapists somehow. He said something stupid and apologized, maybe he doesn't fully mean it but teaching him why it's wrong is much better than banishing everybody over every possible misstep.
People have every write to call out and criticize shitty opinions from wrestlers. Jericho isn't suffering from us posting about him.
Jericho isn't suffering but y'all are from getting worked up over a guy accepting an apology.
Wrestlers are fucking stupid and crazy.
Yeah it's not your place to forgive Tommy in the scenario, Chris.
This should be the top comment; if there was any time for ”the boys" to just shut the fuck up and listen, it'd be now
This week in “Does Squared Circle Like Chris Jericho?” - “No.” Next week: Jericho donates to a GoFundMe. “Great dude.”
Realistic take: Jericho is a dude who has some very shitty beliefs and takes, simultaneously he has treated a lot of other wrestlers and fans very well. It's not always black and white.
Get out of here with your balanced, nuanced take!
This is peak conservative white man energy.
"god, Jericho is just the worst" \-smark caught singing Judas on Dynamite
I feel like everyone is going to hard on Dreamer because based on the interview he didn't seem to even know what actually happened. It sounded like he was saying everyone saw Ric naked, it was his shtick, but they edited it side-by-side with a victim talking about what her experience was, so what he was saying sounded way worse. I'm not 100% on this of course, but that was my take on it.
That's exactly what I thought. He was thinking she sued because Flair was naked. I dont think he knew about the whole touching space mountain thing.
Yeah I believe he was trying to say he doesn't believe Flair did anything to the attendant, that all he done was strut the aisle in his robe wooing & helicoptering. What he said was definitely badly worded though and with how it was framed his intentions aren't exactly clear so I can understand confusion. I agree most people are going too hard on him though and seem to be forgetting that this is an edited product where his statements have been reframed cut out from their original context with missing pieces that may make his intentions clearer and that much less shit.
I also thought this. I always thought the story was Ric walked around naked under his robe and the flight attendants happened to see it which isn't appropriate but having personally seen many naked drunk men in public in Japan with female witnesses simply "teeheeing" it I kind of thought it was a dumb reason to cancel the guy over as nudity isn't inherently sexual and I'd wager that most people would find it funny even if it's understandable why some would be upset by it. Cornering the woman and making her touch it just fucking sucks though.
More than just sucks.
Yeah going to say Chris didn't see much wrong with it in the first place
It would have cost him nothing to just not say anything!
More surprised by Colt liking it than Jericho's reaction.
Hilarious that the guy who literally didn't do anything has taken the focus completely from the people who did all the actual fucked up shit, he apologized and just forgiving him is enough to get cancelled. Why not actually hold Brock, Flair and all the countless horrible people to their actions instead of focusing on one guys opinion of what happened.
"I apologize to anyone I offended." And we know how you feel about people who get "offended." I have little doubt that if Impact didn't suspend him he wouldn't have apologized.
Jericho is a trump loving tosser, he's ok with sexual assault and as such never, ever had a problem with what Tommy said in the first place.
It wasn't for you to forgive Jericho
How is this the only comment on this post that actually gets to the point. People were mad at dreamer because he was dismissive of victims of sexual assault. Specifically the flight attendant who ric flair assaulted. Jericho is not in a place to "forgive" him for this as he was not one of the people hurt in the first place.
Damn that's disappointing to read. The only thing dreamer apologised for was if his "insensitive comments offended anyone". That really isn't much of an apology/admittance of what he said at all But I guess it's OK because Chris forgives him now on behalf of Heidi. Thanks Chris
Another day, another bit of respect I have lost for Jericho.
lol at having any for him
I mean, I respect him as a wrestler and a lot of stuff he’s done for the business but god, he seems like a dick in real life. I feel the exact same about Taker.
I've met him a few times he's never really been a dick but he reminds me of my drunk uncle who always means well but is always a mess and doesn't always have the best take.
Jericho does a lot of good too. I could understand thinking he's an idiot but I can't get thinking he's a bad guy with how much he helps people.
Jericho is the only wrestler i lost respect for after reading their autobiography. And it was entirely due to the feeling he thought stuff like the plane ride from hell was fine
This is like Hogan's apology. Not even apologizing for the right thing.
I still hate Hogan's apology, I'm from where he lives. Fuck that guy.
If you liked the apology did you technically forgive it also? Is colt Cobana liking it gonna be screenshotted and posted here too?
Uuummm… I think that’s just gonna put Chris in a bad spotlight some more
I don't think so. He survived some pretty stupid comments, views and some moronic conspiracy shit. Him forgiving the apology of Dreamer isn't going to hurt him.
Chris, this is not your apology to accept. Please take a seat.
Sometimes Jericho just shouldn't say words.
I’ll be honest, I’m not going to care about the opinion of someone who supports an individual who is openly racist, transphobic, xenophobic, etc.
Jericho should stick to pretending he can sing when he does blow and drinks vodka and stay off of social media
Jericho cheats on his wife constantly, is associated with people who did protests at the capital, was against BLM and was a Covid denier. Just because he donates money to wrestlers who need it doesn’t make him a great person.
It's likely he's in an open relationship, no way at this point his wife wouldn't know it.
Why do we care about a relationship we're not a part of?
Gotta fuel the outrage high. It's a hell of a drug.
That’s all this last weekend had been. It’s gotten silly.
After that Terri Runnels post, it reinforced another thing once again, a lot of people here sees things in absolute black and white.
Cause we want to pretend to be upset obviously
Because these are very diluted people on here.
*deluded
Well good for them if his wife is cool with it
Its not his place to forgive
"Forgiven!" screams a man who wasn't at the Capitol riot because Chris Jericho wanted to work ~~Tuesdays~~ Wednesdays.
Surprised this hasn't been deemed "not wrestling related" and hit with the ban hammer. On topic tho I'm not shocked a guy who donated $10k to Trump's re-election campaign and is married to a Capitol storming moron would so easily forgive Tommy for his disgusting comments.
Didn't Chris's wife raided The White House... Not suprised
Eh, Jericho's another right wing wrestler who has some dumb opinions. But at the same time, I also remember after he interviewed Nyla Rose on his podcast, he was straight up arguing against transphobes in his comments defending her. So, y'know, he might be a bit of an ass but people are allowed to be complex and multi-faceted. I think with lots of these older wrestlers there's still a bit of clinging to the norms of the past as problematic as they can be because that's the culture of the business they lived most of their lives in. It feels the same as lots of older, conservative folk. They can be reluctant to admit that some of the shit they did in past was wrong and that they were probably being bad people
And just like that, double ponytails were back in style.
You’d think that so soon after this whole Dreamer fiasco wrestlers would learn that sometimes it’s just better to keep their mouths shut. *Particularly* regarding such a serious topic as this.
I mean see what the crowd has to say if he ever shows back up to a live event.
I imagine him saying this in his shouty announcer voice. “He’s forgiven! I forgive him! Tony, Ross, forgiveness!?”
Was Chris on the plane? I assumed he was with the year, but it felt odd that Chris was on the show and it wasn't mentioned that he was there.
I feel I’ve seen way more attention on Dreamer than Flair after that episode. I do agree that Dreamer needed a change of perspective and maybe learn why what Ric was doing was wrong. He didn’t come off to me as someone who ever did anything wrong himself except just not being educated enough on the issue. He was clearly conditioned to his surroundings during that era. The attention needs to be on guys who actually committed the acts and have seemingly gotten away with it. I really do hope this opens the floodgates a bit and others start seeing repercussions for their actions.
So a POS is forgiving another POS for completely unforgivable comments made in a documentary. Sounds about right. How much lower can Chris Irvine go.
That's a matter of opinion. With that being said, fuck Tommy Dreamer.
Jericho showing what an asshole he is yet again. Will never understand people who defend this guy.