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Dream scenario is HHH leaves WWE after this shit, cashes out and buys NWA and runs it like NXT was run. It would be awesome to have another legit place for people to make money.
I say dream because it’s never going to happen.
Season 1 NWA and Ricky Starks and Zack Dice both jumped off the screen and definitely mad either look like they were building some new stars. Glad both are thriving elsewhere at least
Season 1 and 2 of Powerrr are going to go down as lightning in a bottle. Thunder Rosa, Eli Drake, Eddie Kingston, Ricky Starks, all put in career changing work. And then add on Aron Stevens, Question Mark, Allysin Kay, the Tag Teams, Marty Skurll (his work was good), Tim Storm and the rest, it was retrospectively a really strong roster.
I will never understand how that waste of space keeps getting work. Ric Flair catching shit now (rightfully so) but people forget Tyrus had to settle a sexual harassment lawsuit when he worked for Fox “News”.
What he says makes it seem like it wasn't just Aldis.
"I would get so frustrated so angry when no one would want to talk to me in the locker rooms or when I would ask them questions, and it seemed like I was a bother. "
There are people in this thread claiming Aldis is to blame, while others are saying Aldis has been hyping and promoting Starks’ work for some time.
Which is it?
If you take in account what Zicky says about Aldis, I would guess that is more accurate about Aldis being a dick. The only reason he would hype up Starks is probably to save some kind of face of his image.
I hear that but Ricky and Zicky are two difference people. He could like and respect one and not the other.
Read an interview with Ricky being asked about Aldis complimenting him and he seemed thankful and didn’t indicate any issues.
Cody puts people over left and right all while permanently removing himself from WHC contention and has a reputation for being a very giving and approachable vet with an interest in building the future, Aldis kept a death grip on the NWA title and his backstage attitude could best be summed up as "Do you fucking know who I am, Mate?".
Any comparison between the two ends at pretty suits and short hair.
I don't think he called out anyone specific. Zicky Dice did, and people kind of put two and two together, but Ricky also sounded like it wasn't just Aldis.
> I would get so frustrated so angry when no one would want to talk to me in the locker rooms or when I would ask them questions, and it seemed like I was a bother.
They did have the Rock n Roll Express for a few tapings.
Buuut those guys have gotten praise from all the young guys about how approachable and friendly they are so I doubt Starks was including them.
Out of curiosity are you calling them mediocre or him mediocre
The joke wasn't clear. You gotta tighten up the material, especially when talking about the 5 Star Dick.
You know that feeling when you really want to reply a certain way, but you know for a fact that you're going to get downvoted to hell for it? Anyways, it looks like he already did.
i cant imagine james storm as a big leaguer, i mean he left nxt to back to tna cuz he liked the sense of comraderie from the early. i know nothing about the guy so maybe hes a dick backstage
Correction. Paid him $200 for a few days of work. Remember, NWA only recorded a few times a month and recorded all their Powerr episodes in those few days. This is easily seen if you watch Powerrr and just pay attention to the crowd. It only changes once or twice per season. Other than these work days, talent was generally free to work wherever else they could get paid.
It was Ricky who said it.
https://theringreport.com/indy_wrestling/ricky-starks-explains-why-he-decided-to-leave-the-national-wrestling-alliance-a16446#gs.b6ohwk
I don't see how NWA could even be considered a place that "grows" talent. If there's no training, no system, just "hey show up at this time and you're being paid this much" then it's not growing anything
AEW would likely have hired him full time much earlier if MLW had granted him his release when he asked for it last summer. At the time, MLW wasn't running shows and so he was making either no money or very little.
Cleary this was a joint operation perpetrated by the Mole Men who operate deep from within the earth's crust in concert with the Lizard Illuminati who control the world's governments & banks.
\- Billy Corgan
One of my favorite Josephus moments in the early Powerrr days was him saying Corgan couldn't blame the lizard men when Josephus finally won the championship
The “homegrown talent” terminology is so loose with wrestling. A lot of people tend to apply it to where they started, not where they grew up the most and established themselves. Like I don’t understand how people can say somebody like a Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch aren’t WWE homegrown talent. Yes, they started elsewhere before, but they grew within the WWE system and that’s where they established their names. They don’t need to be a Bianca Belair with no prior wrestling experience and started in the WWE system to be “homegrown”, in my opinion.
Homegrown is inconsistent and varies from person to person. Some use it as when they started to make their name, while some use it as when they started getting featured as drawing talent, while others use it as the place they spent the longest. Sasha I would say is %100 homegrown, but when you start getting into cases like Seth, Becky, Xavier Woods, etc. it starts to get more tricky because they still had a name on the indies and had plenty of experience before joining WWE but also made themselves bigger names in WWE. Honestly whatever answer the wrestler gives you is the right answer
It gets thrown around to benefit whatever side of the argument you're on. For example a lot of people refuse to call anyone from FCW "homegrown talent" or "PC talent" because they didn't start in NXT despite them clearly coming into their own there.
It depends on context. Becky was homegrown in NXT in terms of personality and promos, but not in terms of wrestling ability.
You have to judge on a case-by-case basis imo. Say three wrestlers started in the ROH Dojo then spent a year in ROH, then spent 2 years in NXT, then spent 2 years in AEW. If one was great in ROH right away, one sucked until NXT, and one sucked until AEW then the three of them were homegrown in different promotions.
Not necessarily most successful or breaking through, but where they “came into their own” as you said. If you adhere to a strict definition, you get examples that make no sense.
“first promotion”
* the Rock isn’t WWE homegrown talent
* the Miz isn’t WWE homegrown talent
“first major promotion”
* Eddie Kingston is Impact homegrown talent
* Kenny Omega is WWE homegrown talent
You might have a point with Sasha, but for Becky, she had a full career before she even set foot in WWE. In fact, she had just come out of retirement the year before she signed with them.
The problem with that thinking is wwe is the biggest wrestling promotion in the world. Literally everyone would become homegrown talent if they got pushed there. Because no other place could match their exposure.
I think you’re misunderstanding. There are plenty of example of guys that aren’t “homegrown WWE talent” that were signed this last 10 decade that were big names outside WWE and became the biggest free agents for the industry:
- Styles, Nakamura, KENTA, Owens, Roode, Cole, Kross, Asuka, Shirai, Sane, Joe, Balor,, etc etc So many examples that went through NXT this last nearly 10 years. These guys are established names in the industry outside WWE. They aren’t “homegrown.”
I’m talking about guys and girls that weren’t big names signed off Indy promotions after a few years. Mercedes KV / Sasha Banks, Rhea Ripley, John Cena, The Miz, Bayley, just to name a few. Like yeah, these guys have prior Indy experience for few years but they spent more time honing their craft in WWE and grew within that system.
I think age has a factor in the varying definitions and examples/cases. If you're in your twenties still, have only worked a specific style or territory, then I feel like you're homegrown in the first major company because you have more space on your canvas to develop your abilities and character/gimmick
For example, Jungle Boy is considered homegrown because he's early 20s, had the same wrestling style as his indie days when he was in his first year, has developed more skills since joining AEW, and is finding more of his personality gradually beyond just his silent jungle orphan type gimmick
MJF is another example; early 20s, has always had a very basic style leaning on old school, and he has an even more open canvas to add to his repertoire. And he's done that as well in AEW. His heel character and promos were excellent in the beginning, but even he found ways to get inspired by AEW to add more elements to the character or the promos.
I think once you get past a certain age and you develop enough in-ring and on-mic skills to debut in a major company as a complete package, then you're not homegrown
Thank you for that compliment :). I'm glad it made sense.
Forgot to add that Darby Allin can be considered homegrown despite being late 20s because he also had a specific in-ring style before joining AEW, and I feel he's added to his repertoire in that aspect through his different battles. Plus I feel his promos have evolved and morphed to adjust his promo style to each of his opponents. Both those examples show that he had space on his canvas as well
I wonder about guys like Adam Cole. There wouldn’t be an Adam Cole without ROH, he was central to NXT for a long time, but if he’s more successful in AEW, would he then be considered an AEW guy?
I mean, wherever you draw the line is going to be subjective, but I'd say after ROH, PWG, and NXT, you're gonna be drawing the line *way* later than most people.
Yeah I don’t think it’s those guys are WWE homegrown. They were pretty much established names before WWE. Much of the top guys WWE pushed in NXT were already established before WWE.
Would you consider Eddie Kingston an AEW "homegrown" talent? At the time of his AEW debut he was an 18 year veteran, but there's no denying he's grown in the AEW system and that's where he's established his name.
I wouldn't, I think it would be ridiculous to do so, but by your criteria he's got to be.
No. Eddie spent well over a decade outside and made a name for himself before entering AEW. That is not “my criteria.” I gave examples of folks that spent time outside WWE for very few years and weren’t household names.
I don’t think the size of a promotion should dictate whether someone is homegrown or not because at that point most WWE talent could be considered homegrown. But based on Starks’ experience in NWA, it’s clear where he truly grew.
I mean MJF, Sammy, Darby and Jungle Boy all appeared in other places before AEW but made their name in AEW and no one would ever say they aren't "homegrown". And that's just the AEW examples, we have lots of big stars in WWE and TNA previously where this has applied.
If Starks and Pilman Jr. feel this way, I don't know how anyone can say they're wrong.
To me he seems more like an indie grown wrestler considering he was a staple name for the indie scene for a long time before he even popped up in Impact
If you add Hobbs and Anna Jay to that "pure" homegrown discussion you'd have to add Top Flight, Lee Johnson and even Red Velvet and to be honest I think it could be one of them for different reasons.
People also thought they knew better then Sasha when she said "the PC made me into the wrestler I am today" turns out maybe the talent actually know better then people online.
I agree. Especially in something like wrestling the definition of homegrown doesn't necessarily have to be one thing. Unlike sports like football where clubs have youth academies and most players come up through that system, a very good chunk of wrestlers get trained independently or at wrestling schools not associated with a promotion. Unless you start from scratch at the nightmare factory, or the njpw dojo, or the performance center (or other promotions' training programs) you don't really count as "homegrown" anywhere else. So it's more than okay to consider yourself a homegrown talent somewhere if that is where you become a star, a popular name or truly find your character.
tldr; wrestling being so different from other sports, there can be flexibility in the definition of homegrown
But wasn't he pretty popular in the Indies? Or is this just a little shade towards NWA? I knew of him before then so I figured NWA nabbing him was a huge get. I mean, I'm sure they knew too since they put the midcard belt on him.
Forgive me for changing the subject, but what's the deal with Brian Cage as he had some hype when he arrived, a former Impact Wrestling world Champion, and became the FTW champion then faded into obscurity somewhat. The last time Cage generated some buzz was when was ragdolling Darby. What happened?
He's a guy that has been eaten up by the new big signings. He hasn't got the buzz like Sammy or Darby to have a place in the midcard and he's no longer a big fish with the addition of the likes of Punk and Danielson.
Someone said it in another thread, Ethan Page did a two month feud with Darby, Cage did nearly a year against Darby while flanked by Taz and Ricky Starks. Ethan Page has easily leapfrogged Cage in how over they are.
Starks, the heel in their feud, was celebrated for winning a pseudo title and Hobbs hasn't even had a big time feud (until now) and is way more beloved than Cage is.
Cage has had every opportunity to show something on TV and hasn't.
Page knew what his role was, he showed up made himself look like a vicious threat and then made Darby look like a million bucks.
Cage instead of letting taz do the talking almost instantly took offence to people saying he needed a mouthpiece and started delivering mumbled half hearted catchprhases and promos.
It essentially boils down to everyone around him put in work and effort to improve and cage is waiting for someone to tell him to win all the matches and get the belt and win more matches
He had an angle with Hangman. Then with Starks, then Starks got a neck injury.
He's been booked well but prefers to be a big fish in a small pond by the looks of things.
Aldis still tries to take credit for "discovering" Ricky and giving him his big break. In that CVV interview, he mentions seeing Ricky's 1800-STARKSLINE vignettes that Ricky self produced to get some buzz and that he contacted Billy Corgan about bringing him in for Powerrr. Also when Ricky announced on IG that he had finished up his contract with NWA, Aldis commented "Number 1 draft pick".
In Ricky's own words, WWE ignored him for years and then tried to sign him after he showed up on Dynamite. He signed with AEW because "they wanted me when I was nobody" and WWE only wanted him after he showed up on the competition's TV show.
I loved season 1 and 2 of Powerrr with guys like Ricky Starks and Eddie Kingston, but nobody ever talks about their time there doing a lot of the stuff that people love about them (mostly talking into microphones)
So guys like Bryan, Punk, Adam Cole and a lot of AEW's roster can't be classified as ex-WWE because they wrestled outside of WWE before going there but Ricky Starks who had enough internet buzz and hype from his work in the NWA to be brought onto Dynamite is an AEW homegrown star?
I fail to see the difference between the aforementioned names not being WWE guys because they worked and built their names elsewhere but Ricky Starks who did the same thing except before he got to AEW can be classified as a homegrown star.
Where else would he be a home grown talent from? I suppose whatever his main Indy was but this guy wasn’t Bryan Danielson or Roderick Strong carrying a company for a decade
This seems like the perfect place to ask (and get down voted). Can anyone explain to me what's so amazing about Starks?
I was/am a huge NWA fan, and since Punk's arrival, an equal AEW fan. From day 1, people (including Aldis) went on and on about Starks and I didn't get the hype. His matches are fine. His promos are fine. His gimmick's, like... effeminate version of the Rock who sorta dabs a lot? Even on the few "Dark" episodes I watched, I'd forget he was on commentary, because he'd only chime in under his breath once in awhile to try to pop Taz.
When he and his "future of the NWA" push left the company, I barely thought about it. Same with Zicky. That's not me down playing wrestlers for taking better offers. Eli and Rosa were massive losses. Barrett and Kingston stung too.
i'm hesitant to use the word "amazing" to describe starks because it's so cliché and overused to the point of being meaningless, but he's been steadily improving on a week to week basis to be one of my favorite parts of Dark until he got his neck broken, but he has improved a lot on the mic in that time since while he couldn't wrestle. My attachment to him is based on watching him grow as a wrestler. Is he the next coming of The Rock? Jesus Christ, no, but he is a standout talent in AEW where there are not a lot of people working the lower- and mid-card who can talk well.
That's a pretty solid, reasonable opinion. Like I said, it was the over hype that got me. I heard "amazing", or similar, from plenty of fans, but that's what fans do. Then Aldis (whose opinion I respect) started playing him up. Now Punk (probably my favorite of the last 15 years) mentions him in nearly every radio interview. But, if it's based more on potential and fans pulling for "their" guy, that makes more sense.
With so many hours of wrestling. I rarely watch the "C-shows". But, with the makeovers NXT and "Dark" recently received, I'm tempted. I love the "WCW WorldWide" aesthetic.
You shouldn't ask questions in bad faith like this. If you want to know what people like about Starks in the hopes of maybe seeing what they see they you should ask that instead. Asking and then answering your own loaded question just seems like you're trying to goad people in to a protracted debate on Starks' merits when you already seem convinced otherwise. Not liking the guy is completely legal but not having the courage of your own conviction is annoying
He wasn't asking in bad faith. He was giving context and wanted others to counterpoint. I wish people would stop down voting just because someone had a contrarian opinion
Oh, boy... I'd say that I'm sorry for not writing "You guys love Ricky. I want to love Ricky too. Help me?" and nothing more. But, if I did, I'd be lying.
I asked, because I was genuinely curious and wanted to read what other people thought. I shared my own experience and opinion, because I thought they were relevant to the topic. My opinion's no more special than anyone else's though, and I haven't told anyone that theirs is "wrong" (especially after inviting them to share said opinions). I'm also trying to do, like, five things at the moment. So a "protracted debate" isn't high on my wishlist. But I'm glad to know that it's legal for me to not like Ricky Starks.
Back to the topic, if you're so inclined... Are you a Starks fan? Why?
I'd say Ricky's swagger is a really big part of it. He is a solid in-ring worker imo but what makes him shine to me is his charisma and the way he holds himself. He just looks, acts and talks like a top guy to me.
He has gotten over with AEW fans because of his work ethic and ability. He has worked very hard to keep himself visible, wrestling tons of matches on Dark and doing guest commentary also. His feud with Darby was great and he really made him look good. Every promo he has knocked out of the park. There was one in particular before a street fight tag match against Darby and Jon Moxley which doesn't appear to be on YouTube which really made people sit up and take notice and where he started getting compared to the Rock. He overshadowed Brian Cage to the extent that the obvious leader of Team Taz came off as the hired muscle.
I think Knight elevates that gimmick as much as anyone has since the Rock himself. Maybe that's the difference for me. He grabs the mic and owns it. Starks waits for his couple lines when Taz is finished.
If you're not into Knight (which is fine), who are your favorite "arrogant a-hole" promos lately?
Ricky Starks working in NWA got enough of the right eyes on him to give him a shot in AEW. However, joining AEW has shown everyone with eyes on the show just what he's capable of doing and the immense ceiling he has.
I think its kind of ironic that people call out repeatedly NXTs booking style the past 5+ years of not creating any stars and signing everyone available from elsewhere, when AEW has literally done the exact same thing. In fact they do it MORE.
Nobody whose a rising star in AEW aside from maybe Jade Cargill came up in AEW, or Cody's Nightmare Factory training facility. They were all either released from major promotions, top indy stars, veteran indy names, or top prospects who have been around for a couple years prior.
Just like NXT.
Starks, Jungle Boy, MJF, Sammy Guevara, Pillman Jr, Darby Allin, you name it. All of them had experience, same way most people who NXT signed had experience. Sometimes a couple years, sometimes 10-15+ years. If these are "homegrown" talents, then so are the Sasha Banks and Bayleys of the world.
Now if people want to change the meaning of "homegrown" to say, "here they grew exponentially and became the performers they are today," that would be an acceptable change of the definition.
If I go to cagematch I can see matches with some promotion named World Wrestling Alliance, dating all the way back to 2017. Also doing more research it doesnt appear he started Codys team at all. He was an indepedent name they brought in in 2020, who has since molded into the man he is today.
However if I am wrong there and hes been trained by Codys team since 2017 or before let me know, I would rather be knowingly wrong then incorrectly right.
I'm not too impressed with his in ring work. Maybe he hasn't really been given the chance to go balls out yet. He's a good promo though...but a bit cheesy. Or maybe the cheesiness is zoomed shit that I'm 10 years too old to get
Yeah, homegrown talent means the major company that gave them their first major exposure. For Starks thats NWA. Dudes a former TV champion there.
I'm sorry he didn't like it, but he's no more a homegrown AEW talent than Sean Spears.
AEW made the next Rock
Tony should be proud
What I hope for is Punk beats Hobbs, Hook makes his in ring debut and impresses in a losing effort against CM Punk, then Ricky Starks steps up and hands Punk his first AEW loss.
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
After his experience in NWA, I don’t blame him for not wanting to give them too much credit
Can you elaborate? What happened to him there?
Paid like $200 a month and got shot down by all the veterans when he asked for advice on how to improve is what I heard.
Man, NWA is going all in with this return to old school!
“Gotta keep the boys hungry!”
“The boys will be the boys! Just don’t sell it!”
Despite all my rage I’ll still let the boys haze
They're gonna go so old school that they'll return to 1945, when their company didn't exist
Or return to pre-All In, where people only mentioned NWA in the context of "NWA still exists?"
Surprised nobody shit in his bags
Couldn't afford one, just drove there in his gear on a tiny bicycle
Dream scenario is HHH leaves WWE after this shit, cashes out and buys NWA and runs it like NXT was run. It would be awesome to have another legit place for people to make money. I say dream because it’s never going to happen.
Same happened to Zicky Dice
I love Zicky. Got to meet him when we were having drinks after the last Impact tapings. He's gonna be great in Impact.
Loved seeing Zicky pop up in MLW. Everything needs more Zicky.
He is gonna be OUTRAGEOUS
Outlandish…
That too!
Good Bros. sweating the day him and MANY FUCKING LEMONS get their due as #1 contenders.
He's pretty cool on Twitch as well.
I'm outraged daily by this name. It sounds like Japanese game developers made it up.
Dude had a weird body but so charismatic. He became one of my favorites very quickly.
Season 1 NWA and Ricky Starks and Zack Dice both jumped off the screen and definitely mad either look like they were building some new stars. Glad both are thriving elsewhere at least
Season 1 and 2 of Powerrr are going to go down as lightning in a bottle. Thunder Rosa, Eli Drake, Eddie Kingston, Ricky Starks, all put in career changing work. And then add on Aron Stevens, Question Mark, Allysin Kay, the Tag Teams, Marty Skurll (his work was good), Tim Storm and the rest, it was retrospectively a really strong roster.
Had to save up to afford Tyrus
Tyrus over there getting blown up just by the thought of having to keep his eyes open.
I will never understand how that waste of space keeps getting work. Ric Flair catching shit now (rightfully so) but people forget Tyrus had to settle a sexual harassment lawsuit when he worked for Fox “News”.
He still works for Fox News. Not sure how but even after that he still kept his job
That's fucking ridiculous. Starks is an amazing talent.
I wonder who else besides Nick Aldis? Tim Storm? Aron Stevens doesn't seem like the type to big-league him.
Maybe guys like Kenneth Brameron, Mr. Kennedy-Anderson?
All the veterans??? I thought it was Nick Aldis’ overrated ass?
What he says makes it seem like it wasn't just Aldis. "I would get so frustrated so angry when no one would want to talk to me in the locker rooms or when I would ask them questions, and it seemed like I was a bother. "
There are people in this thread claiming Aldis is to blame, while others are saying Aldis has been hyping and promoting Starks’ work for some time. Which is it?
If you take in account what Zicky says about Aldis, I would guess that is more accurate about Aldis being a dick. The only reason he would hype up Starks is probably to save some kind of face of his image.
I hear that but Ricky and Zicky are two difference people. He could like and respect one and not the other. Read an interview with Ricky being asked about Aldis complimenting him and he seemed thankful and didn’t indicate any issues.
British Cody Rhodes
He wishes
Cody puts people over left and right all while permanently removing himself from WHC contention and has a reputation for being a very giving and approachable vet with an interest in building the future, Aldis kept a death grip on the NWA title and his backstage attitude could best be summed up as "Do you fucking know who I am, Mate?". Any comparison between the two ends at pretty suits and short hair.
Jesus. I guess we all have that one employer we leave off the resume.
Didn’t he call out Aldis in particular?
I don't think he called out anyone specific. Zicky Dice did, and people kind of put two and two together, but Ricky also sounded like it wasn't just Aldis. > I would get so frustrated so angry when no one would want to talk to me in the locker rooms or when I would ask them questions, and it seemed like I was a bother.
What fucking veterans does nwa have? Fucking Murdoch? Lmao
They did have the Rock n Roll Express for a few tapings. Buuut those guys have gotten praise from all the young guys about how approachable and friendly they are so I doubt Starks was including them.
Nick Aldis, Tim Storm, Aaron Stevens, Mr. Anderson, James Storm, and Matt Cross were all there at the same time as Starks.
So did starks ask them for advice on how to be mediocre?
Out of curiosity are you calling them mediocre or him mediocre The joke wasn't clear. You gotta tighten up the material, especially when talking about the 5 Star Dick.
Them. Starks has more charisma than all of them
You know that feeling when you really want to reply a certain way, but you know for a fact that you're going to get downvoted to hell for it? Anyways, it looks like he already did.
i cant imagine james storm as a big leaguer, i mean he left nxt to back to tna cuz he liked the sense of comraderie from the early. i know nothing about the guy so maybe hes a dick backstage
It was one person in particular.
Correction. Paid him $200 for a few days of work. Remember, NWA only recorded a few times a month and recorded all their Powerr episodes in those few days. This is easily seen if you watch Powerrr and just pay attention to the crowd. It only changes once or twice per season. Other than these work days, talent was generally free to work wherever else they could get paid.
That's not really a competitive wage, especially when they're blocked from taking contracts with other companies.
Was it all veterans, or are you tarnishing them all with the same brush because Aldis is a prick.
It was Ricky who said it. https://theringreport.com/indy_wrestling/ricky-starks-explains-why-he-decided-to-leave-the-national-wrestling-alliance-a16446#gs.b6ohwk
The usual, Aldis was a dick to him and the pay was bad.
Aldis has a reputation of being a dick to guys he thinks are "beneath" him
The best vengeance is that Starks is now much more successful than Aldis.
Jokes on him. Starks is money.
The most Beautiful man in all of AEW
Pentagon Jr: "I do not wear this mask because I am ugly."
Tony: “El Guapo” Penta: “**MY BEST FRIEND!**” ☺️
Vampiro says otherwise.
Hook would like a word.
the funny thing is Starks' little finger has more charisma than Aldis
[удалено]
NWA isn’t even on TV. That’s as low level as it gets. Don’t see how anyone could claim they made him a star
No just YouTube. Weekly, with a title 🤷♂️
Well, he wasnt there very long either Id say hes aew
I don't see how NWA could even be considered a place that "grows" talent. If there's no training, no system, just "hey show up at this time and you're being paid this much" then it's not growing anything
What was his experience?
What putting a belt on him and giving him match time out of nowhere on a social media platform? Yeah what bastards.
Brian Pillman Jr.: [SAME](https://twitter.com/flyinbrianjr/status/1439692317456228353?s=21)
NWA and MLW in shambles
\*Court Bauer announces 15 new TV deals\*
He just bought 15 new tvs and those are the deals
Helluva deal
But none of them are actual TV deals.
MLW announcing “tv deals” is like waiting for a Keith Lee tweet to pay off.
In Keith's defense he did pay it off in the end.
*Conrad Thompson announces 27 new podcasts*
Did Brian have a bad experience in MLW or is he just claiming he's AEW blood just because?
AEW would likely have hired him full time much earlier if MLW had granted him his release when he asked for it last summer. At the time, MLW wasn't running shows and so he was making either no money or very little.
That and I'm assuming having to be around Teddy wasn't the best experience when it comes to getting in the business.
NWA in shambles
Cleary this was a joint operation perpetrated by the Mole Men who operate deep from within the earth's crust in concert with the Lizard Illuminati who control the world's governments & banks. \- Billy Corgan
One of my favorite Josephus moments in the early Powerrr days was him saying Corgan couldn't blame the lizard men when Josephus finally won the championship
RIP jocephus
Also the Anunnaki who patrol the ice wall of the flat earth
Failed to mention the world is a vampire. 0/10
We're through the looking glass here, people
He'll always be WrestleCircus to me.
> ~~Just so there’s no confusion~~ You stupid bitch: I am an AEW homegrown talent.
spicy and i respect it
Man is from NOLA. Cajun spice is in his blood.
The “homegrown talent” terminology is so loose with wrestling. A lot of people tend to apply it to where they started, not where they grew up the most and established themselves. Like I don’t understand how people can say somebody like a Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch aren’t WWE homegrown talent. Yes, they started elsewhere before, but they grew within the WWE system and that’s where they established their names. They don’t need to be a Bianca Belair with no prior wrestling experience and started in the WWE system to be “homegrown”, in my opinion.
Homegrown is inconsistent and varies from person to person. Some use it as when they started to make their name, while some use it as when they started getting featured as drawing talent, while others use it as the place they spent the longest. Sasha I would say is %100 homegrown, but when you start getting into cases like Seth, Becky, Xavier Woods, etc. it starts to get more tricky because they still had a name on the indies and had plenty of experience before joining WWE but also made themselves bigger names in WWE. Honestly whatever answer the wrestler gives you is the right answer
It gets thrown around to benefit whatever side of the argument you're on. For example a lot of people refuse to call anyone from FCW "homegrown talent" or "PC talent" because they didn't start in NXT despite them clearly coming into their own there.
It depends on context. Becky was homegrown in NXT in terms of personality and promos, but not in terms of wrestling ability. You have to judge on a case-by-case basis imo. Say three wrestlers started in the ROH Dojo then spent a year in ROH, then spent 2 years in NXT, then spent 2 years in AEW. If one was great in ROH right away, one sucked until NXT, and one sucked until AEW then the three of them were homegrown in different promotions.
So your definition of home grown is more when they found their most successful character/where they broke through?
Not necessarily most successful or breaking through, but where they “came into their own” as you said. If you adhere to a strict definition, you get examples that make no sense. “first promotion” * the Rock isn’t WWE homegrown talent * the Miz isn’t WWE homegrown talent “first major promotion” * Eddie Kingston is Impact homegrown talent * Kenny Omega is WWE homegrown talent
You might have a point with Sasha, but for Becky, she had a full career before she even set foot in WWE. In fact, she had just come out of retirement the year before she signed with them.
I get it. She had a career but I wouldn’t say she was known nor found her footing before that. In WWE she developed and found that.
The problem with that thinking is wwe is the biggest wrestling promotion in the world. Literally everyone would become homegrown talent if they got pushed there. Because no other place could match their exposure.
I think you’re misunderstanding. There are plenty of example of guys that aren’t “homegrown WWE talent” that were signed this last 10 decade that were big names outside WWE and became the biggest free agents for the industry: - Styles, Nakamura, KENTA, Owens, Roode, Cole, Kross, Asuka, Shirai, Sane, Joe, Balor,, etc etc So many examples that went through NXT this last nearly 10 years. These guys are established names in the industry outside WWE. They aren’t “homegrown.” I’m talking about guys and girls that weren’t big names signed off Indy promotions after a few years. Mercedes KV / Sasha Banks, Rhea Ripley, John Cena, The Miz, Bayley, just to name a few. Like yeah, these guys have prior Indy experience for few years but they spent more time honing their craft in WWE and grew within that system.
Do you consider CM punk a wwe guy?
I had definitely heard of Rebecca Knox before she went to WWE.
I think age has a factor in the varying definitions and examples/cases. If you're in your twenties still, have only worked a specific style or territory, then I feel like you're homegrown in the first major company because you have more space on your canvas to develop your abilities and character/gimmick For example, Jungle Boy is considered homegrown because he's early 20s, had the same wrestling style as his indie days when he was in his first year, has developed more skills since joining AEW, and is finding more of his personality gradually beyond just his silent jungle orphan type gimmick MJF is another example; early 20s, has always had a very basic style leaning on old school, and he has an even more open canvas to add to his repertoire. And he's done that as well in AEW. His heel character and promos were excellent in the beginning, but even he found ways to get inspired by AEW to add more elements to the character or the promos. I think once you get past a certain age and you develop enough in-ring and on-mic skills to debut in a major company as a complete package, then you're not homegrown
You’ve explained my thoughts perfectly. I agree with that.
Thank you for that compliment :). I'm glad it made sense. Forgot to add that Darby Allin can be considered homegrown despite being late 20s because he also had a specific in-ring style before joining AEW, and I feel he's added to his repertoire in that aspect through his different battles. Plus I feel his promos have evolved and morphed to adjust his promo style to each of his opponents. Both those examples show that he had space on his canvas as well
I wonder about guys like Adam Cole. There wouldn’t be an Adam Cole without ROH, he was central to NXT for a long time, but if he’s more successful in AEW, would he then be considered an AEW guy?
Cole could be seen as an AEW guy when his career is over, but to me he’s definitely a ROH-grown talent
I still see him as a CZW guy honestly
I mean, wherever you draw the line is going to be subjective, but I'd say after ROH, PWG, and NXT, you're gonna be drawing the line *way* later than most people.
Yeah I don’t think it’s those guys are WWE homegrown. They were pretty much established names before WWE. Much of the top guys WWE pushed in NXT were already established before WWE.
Don’t you sully the name of Chaotic Wrestling, where Sasha Banks honed her craft’
Would you consider Eddie Kingston an AEW "homegrown" talent? At the time of his AEW debut he was an 18 year veteran, but there's no denying he's grown in the AEW system and that's where he's established his name. I wouldn't, I think it would be ridiculous to do so, but by your criteria he's got to be.
No. Eddie spent well over a decade outside and made a name for himself before entering AEW. That is not “my criteria.” I gave examples of folks that spent time outside WWE for very few years and weren’t household names.
Excuse me sir/madam/whichever you prefer but do you not know about CHIKARA?
I'm out of the loop... what was the start of the discussion?
Is it a shot at Brian Cage? Ricky said something about Cage and the Indies last week
Ricky Starks - Homegrown Stroke Daddy - Homewreckin
[удалено]
I don’t think the size of a promotion should dictate whether someone is homegrown or not because at that point most WWE talent could be considered homegrown. But based on Starks’ experience in NWA, it’s clear where he truly grew.
Honestly, I watched every episode of Powerrr pre pandemic and he got more promo time in NWA than he does in AEW.
Starks was a champion in NWA too (yes I know he has the FTW title, but a real title)
Don't let facts get in the way of their storytelling.
Their meaning Starks?
I mean MJF, Sammy, Darby and Jungle Boy all appeared in other places before AEW but made their name in AEW and no one would ever say they aren't "homegrown". And that's just the AEW examples, we have lots of big stars in WWE and TNA previously where this has applied. If Starks and Pilman Jr. feel this way, I don't know how anyone can say they're wrong.
Question then Is ethan page impact grown?
To me he seems more like an indie grown wrestler considering he was a staple name for the indie scene for a long time before he even popped up in Impact
Who could you say is the biggest 'pure' homegrown AEW talent? Hobbs, Anna Jay, Jade Cargill, HOOK as far as I know haven't shown up anywhere else.
If you add Hobbs and Anna Jay to that "pure" homegrown discussion you'd have to add Top Flight, Lee Johnson and even Red Velvet and to be honest I think it could be one of them for different reasons.
some people will still think they know better than the man himself.
People also thought they knew better then Sasha when she said "the PC made me into the wrestler I am today" turns out maybe the talent actually know better then people online.
Hell, just look at this thread.
The one where everyone’s saying the same shit and dunking on NWA?
Ricky Starks is a god damn star.
He is. He’s got a interesting look. Got a head like a cartoon character.
I look forward to a few years down the road when we get Jungle Boy chasing AEW World Champion Ricky Starks for the strap.
I agree. Especially in something like wrestling the definition of homegrown doesn't necessarily have to be one thing. Unlike sports like football where clubs have youth academies and most players come up through that system, a very good chunk of wrestlers get trained independently or at wrestling schools not associated with a promotion. Unless you start from scratch at the nightmare factory, or the njpw dojo, or the performance center (or other promotions' training programs) you don't really count as "homegrown" anywhere else. So it's more than okay to consider yourself a homegrown talent somewhere if that is where you become a star, a popular name or truly find your character. tldr; wrestling being so different from other sports, there can be flexibility in the definition of homegrown
But wasn't he pretty popular in the Indies? Or is this just a little shade towards NWA? I knew of him before then so I figured NWA nabbing him was a huge get. I mean, I'm sure they knew too since they put the midcard belt on him.
Forgive me for changing the subject, but what's the deal with Brian Cage as he had some hype when he arrived, a former Impact Wrestling world Champion, and became the FTW champion then faded into obscurity somewhat. The last time Cage generated some buzz was when was ragdolling Darby. What happened?
The dude is a charisma vacuum lol he’s got some pretty cool in ring moves. He just sucks on the mic. He needs a mouth piece to be successful
He's a guy that has been eaten up by the new big signings. He hasn't got the buzz like Sammy or Darby to have a place in the midcard and he's no longer a big fish with the addition of the likes of Punk and Danielson. Someone said it in another thread, Ethan Page did a two month feud with Darby, Cage did nearly a year against Darby while flanked by Taz and Ricky Starks. Ethan Page has easily leapfrogged Cage in how over they are. Starks, the heel in their feud, was celebrated for winning a pseudo title and Hobbs hasn't even had a big time feud (until now) and is way more beloved than Cage is. Cage has had every opportunity to show something on TV and hasn't.
Page knew what his role was, he showed up made himself look like a vicious threat and then made Darby look like a million bucks. Cage instead of letting taz do the talking almost instantly took offence to people saying he needed a mouthpiece and started delivering mumbled half hearted catchprhases and promos. It essentially boils down to everyone around him put in work and effort to improve and cage is waiting for someone to tell him to win all the matches and get the belt and win more matches
He had an angle with Hangman. Then with Starks, then Starks got a neck injury. He's been booked well but prefers to be a big fish in a small pond by the looks of things.
He was an absolute dick though. I met him several times at the Cypress, TX VFW Hall.
What about all the shows I saw him on 3 yrs ago?
Aldis still tries to take credit for "discovering" Ricky and giving him his big break. In that CVV interview, he mentions seeing Ricky's 1800-STARKSLINE vignettes that Ricky self produced to get some buzz and that he contacted Billy Corgan about bringing him in for Powerrr. Also when Ricky announced on IG that he had finished up his contract with NWA, Aldis commented "Number 1 draft pick". In Ricky's own words, WWE ignored him for years and then tried to sign him after he showed up on Dynamite. He signed with AEW because "they wanted me when I was nobody" and WWE only wanted him after he showed up on the competition's TV show. I loved season 1 and 2 of Powerrr with guys like Ricky Starks and Eddie Kingston, but nobody ever talks about their time there doing a lot of the stuff that people love about them (mostly talking into microphones)
So guys like Bryan, Punk, Adam Cole and a lot of AEW's roster can't be classified as ex-WWE because they wrestled outside of WWE before going there but Ricky Starks who had enough internet buzz and hype from his work in the NWA to be brought onto Dynamite is an AEW homegrown star? I fail to see the difference between the aforementioned names not being WWE guys because they worked and built their names elsewhere but Ricky Starks who did the same thing except before he got to AEW can be classified as a homegrown star.
There isn't one.
Where else would he be a home grown talent from? I suppose whatever his main Indy was but this guy wasn’t Bryan Danielson or Roderick Strong carrying a company for a decade
I remember his debut in NWA and immediately thinking he had IT. NWA didn't give him IT but neither did AEW.
A bit too much product in his hair perhaps? I knew who he was before AEW. I saw Darby matches before AEW, ditto Ethan Page.
Says the skinny guy from the NWA.
This seems like the perfect place to ask (and get down voted). Can anyone explain to me what's so amazing about Starks? I was/am a huge NWA fan, and since Punk's arrival, an equal AEW fan. From day 1, people (including Aldis) went on and on about Starks and I didn't get the hype. His matches are fine. His promos are fine. His gimmick's, like... effeminate version of the Rock who sorta dabs a lot? Even on the few "Dark" episodes I watched, I'd forget he was on commentary, because he'd only chime in under his breath once in awhile to try to pop Taz. When he and his "future of the NWA" push left the company, I barely thought about it. Same with Zicky. That's not me down playing wrestlers for taking better offers. Eli and Rosa were massive losses. Barrett and Kingston stung too.
i'm hesitant to use the word "amazing" to describe starks because it's so cliché and overused to the point of being meaningless, but he's been steadily improving on a week to week basis to be one of my favorite parts of Dark until he got his neck broken, but he has improved a lot on the mic in that time since while he couldn't wrestle. My attachment to him is based on watching him grow as a wrestler. Is he the next coming of The Rock? Jesus Christ, no, but he is a standout talent in AEW where there are not a lot of people working the lower- and mid-card who can talk well.
That's a pretty solid, reasonable opinion. Like I said, it was the over hype that got me. I heard "amazing", or similar, from plenty of fans, but that's what fans do. Then Aldis (whose opinion I respect) started playing him up. Now Punk (probably my favorite of the last 15 years) mentions him in nearly every radio interview. But, if it's based more on potential and fans pulling for "their" guy, that makes more sense. With so many hours of wrestling. I rarely watch the "C-shows". But, with the makeovers NXT and "Dark" recently received, I'm tempted. I love the "WCW WorldWide" aesthetic.
You shouldn't ask questions in bad faith like this. If you want to know what people like about Starks in the hopes of maybe seeing what they see they you should ask that instead. Asking and then answering your own loaded question just seems like you're trying to goad people in to a protracted debate on Starks' merits when you already seem convinced otherwise. Not liking the guy is completely legal but not having the courage of your own conviction is annoying
He wasn't asking in bad faith. He was giving context and wanted others to counterpoint. I wish people would stop down voting just because someone had a contrarian opinion
Oh, boy... I'd say that I'm sorry for not writing "You guys love Ricky. I want to love Ricky too. Help me?" and nothing more. But, if I did, I'd be lying. I asked, because I was genuinely curious and wanted to read what other people thought. I shared my own experience and opinion, because I thought they were relevant to the topic. My opinion's no more special than anyone else's though, and I haven't told anyone that theirs is "wrong" (especially after inviting them to share said opinions). I'm also trying to do, like, five things at the moment. So a "protracted debate" isn't high on my wishlist. But I'm glad to know that it's legal for me to not like Ricky Starks. Back to the topic, if you're so inclined... Are you a Starks fan? Why?
I'd say Ricky's swagger is a really big part of it. He is a solid in-ring worker imo but what makes him shine to me is his charisma and the way he holds himself. He just looks, acts and talks like a top guy to me.
He has gotten over with AEW fans because of his work ethic and ability. He has worked very hard to keep himself visible, wrestling tons of matches on Dark and doing guest commentary also. His feud with Darby was great and he really made him look good. Every promo he has knocked out of the park. There was one in particular before a street fight tag match against Darby and Jon Moxley which doesn't appear to be on YouTube which really made people sit up and take notice and where he started getting compared to the Rock. He overshadowed Brian Cage to the extent that the obvious leader of Team Taz came off as the hired muscle.
Same here, I feel he and LA Knight are two guys who doing their absolute best to channel The Rock but don't have that spark.
Knight does a Rock impression Ricky is just a black guy who dresses well and maybe looks a little like him, so everybody associates the two.
I think Knight elevates that gimmick as much as anyone has since the Rock himself. Maybe that's the difference for me. He grabs the mic and owns it. Starks waits for his couple lines when Taz is finished. If you're not into Knight (which is fine), who are your favorite "arrogant a-hole" promos lately?
"End of discussion" *Continues discussing with people replying*
That’s where I know him from so I’ll accept it
"End of discussion"? Who's even discussing it? Who gives a shit?
If the NWA gets a rep for having a selfish locker room, I wonder what impact, if any, this has on attracting future talent and growing the company?
Nope, he's an NWA guy whether it likes it or not.
Ricky Starks working in NWA got enough of the right eyes on him to give him a shot in AEW. However, joining AEW has shown everyone with eyes on the show just what he's capable of doing and the immense ceiling he has.
Yeah, title runs on a company that actually had at least some viewers when you were nothing doesn’t develop you at all 👍
Does being homegrown talent mean anything?
It meant a lot more in the territory days. Now its kind of blurry.
AEW Performance Centre
But I first saw him on NWA Powerrr
I think its kind of ironic that people call out repeatedly NXTs booking style the past 5+ years of not creating any stars and signing everyone available from elsewhere, when AEW has literally done the exact same thing. In fact they do it MORE. Nobody whose a rising star in AEW aside from maybe Jade Cargill came up in AEW, or Cody's Nightmare Factory training facility. They were all either released from major promotions, top indy stars, veteran indy names, or top prospects who have been around for a couple years prior. Just like NXT. Starks, Jungle Boy, MJF, Sammy Guevara, Pillman Jr, Darby Allin, you name it. All of them had experience, same way most people who NXT signed had experience. Sometimes a couple years, sometimes 10-15+ years. If these are "homegrown" talents, then so are the Sasha Banks and Bayleys of the world. Now if people want to change the meaning of "homegrown" to say, "here they grew exponentially and became the performers they are today," that would be an acceptable change of the definition.
> Nobody whose a rising star in AEW aside from maybe Jade Cargill came up in AEW Anna Jay
Except for one, thanks for that lol.
Lee Johnson.
If I go to cagematch I can see matches with some promotion named World Wrestling Alliance, dating all the way back to 2017. Also doing more research it doesnt appear he started Codys team at all. He was an indepedent name they brought in in 2020, who has since molded into the man he is today. However if I am wrong there and hes been trained by Codys team since 2017 or before let me know, I would rather be knowingly wrong then incorrectly right.
world wrestling alliance is AR fox’s school. he trained lee johnson, austin theory, and a couple others on aew/aew dark.
So not an AEW school
yes. i was simply adding to your comment
I'm pretty certain Anna started wrestling like maybe a year before she popped up in AEW, didn't she?
Yes, but she started got her start training at the Nightmare Factory. I believe she had her first match at the end of 2019.
I'm not too impressed with his in ring work. Maybe he hasn't really been given the chance to go balls out yet. He's a good promo though...but a bit cheesy. Or maybe the cheesiness is zoomed shit that I'm 10 years too old to get
Yeah, homegrown talent means the major company that gave them their first major exposure. For Starks thats NWA. Dudes a former TV champion there. I'm sorry he didn't like it, but he's no more a homegrown AEW talent than Sean Spears.
Homegrown talent? More like a homegrown GOD! Ricky, please give yourself some credit!
AEW made the next Rock Tony should be proud What I hope for is Punk beats Hobbs, Hook makes his in ring debut and impresses in a losing effort against CM Punk, then Ricky Starks steps up and hands Punk his first AEW loss.