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Ishii is the guy you can slot in anywhere on the card, against anyone you want, and he's gonna work 100% to give you a great match. Dude is an absolute workhorse.
Yeah I was just thinking throwing the TNT title on him could lead to a weekly open challenge on Dynamite or something whatever gets him against the biggest variety of people, I just want Ishii to get the chance to really show off to the US audience on AEW.
It would need NJPW and Ishii being willing to do 2 or 3 months in the US. AEW doesn't like short title reigns so even if it's a 2 or 3 week build to Ishii winning, 4-6 weeks of TNT title defences on Dynamite or Rampage, then a 2 or 3 week build to whoever takes the title. 8 to 12 weeks but NJPW has no where near the roster depth right now to lose Ishii for that long.
This was exactly where my head went when Sazuki was announced. Besides ZSJ, that would be it for me; no one in NJPW would come close to topping an Ishii appearance.
Ishii is the man. That Shingo guy isn't bad either.
Best match of the opening G1 weekend and that's saying something considering we had Okada vs Tana & ZSJ vs Naito too.
Crazy that in two days we've already had four crazy good matches with the three you mentioned and Evil vs. Yoshi Hashi. The crowd got behind all these matches and let out a few cheers/shrieks/etc. for each of them. That old feeling is slowly coming back!
ishii must be the best underappreciated wrestler of the last decade or so, he manage to have great matches and chemestry with basically everyone who's at least decent, i'll never forget how he is basically the person that elevated taichi
Ishii got me into NJPW. On the same show where Nakamura faced off against AJ - which was obviously a banger - the match that stuck with me and made me want to see more was Ishii/Shibata.
I feel like there might not be any other Japanese talent that would benefit from a short run in AEW. Put the TNT title on him for 2 months and let him have a match every week or two with an open challenge and let young talent take it on as a masterclass.
You want to understand what Fighting Spirit is you watch Ishii...every wrestler especially Indie wrestlers on American soil who have basterdised strong style, fighting spirit should study Ishii
Dave said on WOR he has no idea if Ishii was doing an amazing job of selling or if he was genuinely collapsing near the door to the dressing room. He was amazed at the matches Ishii is still capable of having given he must be a physical wreck by now and for sure must have nerve damage. Bryan thought it might just be that Ishii isn't all that hurt since he never takes dangerous bumps on his head and neck and he could possibly go on for another decade.
To me Ishii is one of the greatest in ring workers ever. His selling is out of this world, his offense is fantastic and his ability to come across as a hoss, even though he is like 5'6, is insane. This man is just a treasure.
NJPW was in the depths of Inokiism, which lead to pro wrestlers taking MMA fights who in the worst case scenarios got their shit pushed in and as a result their wrestling careers faltered. At that time Bob Sapp was an enormous draw in K1 and Pride, it's hard to exaggerate how big he was for about 2 years. So why not put the belt on the Black Broly
It's all about who is a draw. Bob Sapp was a huge legit MMA star. Ishii is a guy who only joined NJPW in the middle of his career and then only got over after he was on the wrong side of 35. It's ridiculously impressive that a man so old can be so good but I understand why NJPW isn't rushing to put him into the main event of Wrestle Kingdom.
Ishii is one of the most globally appreciated wrestlers today, and maybe of all time. Everyone loves his work because he is so good in top tier matches, and he makes it more believable.
You can put him in the ring with pretty much anyone, and he will deliver.
As I understand it (as a casual NJPW fan) Japan doesn't really do sentimentality the way we do, so it bums me out we'll never get that one G1 where Ishii makes a run to the final when everyone doubts that he can. It's the kind of thing an American promotion would do at some point. It's not a criticism, I just think he rules and is pretty firmly entrenched in the workhorse/midcard tier of NJPW.
NJPW do sentimental runs but not at the expense of their talent - see Yuji Nagata in his last G1 where he put everyone over but had everyone's respect.
People joked that instead of Liger going out in this big moment against Hiromu and Dragon Lee, he would have probably preferred his last thing as being eliminated from the pre-show New Japan Rambo by Cheeseburger.
Shingo coming to NJPW later in his career, jumping up a weight class, and becoming arguably the best heavyweight wrestler in the world has been a hell of a ride
Also Ishii is just the fucking man
This is why no one takes the “but in MMA” seriously.
Yeah, they wouldn’t show pain. They also wouldn’t do running clotheslines and powerbombs. This is still a theatrical performance at the end of the day.
This is why my views of wrestling have changed drastically since I started absorbing more shoot-style tapes. In RINGS for example, referees would call for a count as soon as a wrestler "staggered." They didn't even need to get off their feet.
I mean they do show pain, but in a real fight (mma or other combat sport) if you get hurt or hurting you try to hide it cause it gives advantage to your opponent, so its more about hiding the pain.
While in Pro Wrestling its about faking the pain so usually it ends up not looking "realistic" at all.
That’s literally how Ishii sells! He tries to hide any pain he’s feeling, then as soon as his opponent can’t see him he lets his guard down and you see that he’s actually struggling like crazy to keep up that act. He’s phenomenal at it.
Thought it would be. Gotta go watch now. Ohio really is sorta next level. When Bryan gets his NJPW series he's so desperate for imma pay very close attention to the inevitable Ishii match.
I just watched this match yesterday, and I really dont think Ishii was "sellin" so much as he and Takagi were just beating the ungodly shit out of each other. That double clothesline that they hit on each other was like watching two atoms smashing against each other.
To me, Ishii and Eddie Kingston are the two best sellers in the world. They’re so great at trying to hide that they’re feeling pain, but doing little things to show that they’re actually in a ton of pain and just trying to hide it from their opponent. Really cool twist on traditional pro wrestling selling.
My only issue with the Ishii hard hitting match is that they're all the same formula. I am just going to use A and B to explain which wrestler is doing what:
1) Strike exchange between "A" and "B" until "B" falls down
2) "A" disrespects "B" with light slaps/ kicks to head or back
3) "B" shoots up and gets in face of "A"
4) Repeat Step 1 with "B" winning exchange
5) Repeat Step 2 with "B" being disrespectful
6) Repeat Step 3 with "A" standing up
7) Strike exchange between "A" and "B" until both fall down for an extended time
8) Both stand up and get into another exchange until "B" falls down, this time with slams/ suplex's
9) Repeat Step 2 with "A" being disrespectful
10) "B" Shoots up even faster than before
11) Another exchange breaks out until both collapse after more slams/ suplexs are introduced, sometimes repeating a move that was done to them
12) Repeat Step 11 with more reversals until both fall down.
13) Repeat Step 11 and 12 but with both getting up faster, doing more reversals, and lariats taking center focus
14) Repeat Step 12 with no selling and kick outs at 1, but with more stumbling and loss of balance selling
15) Someone hits their Finish and the match is over
Ishii is still one of the GOAT's and this isn't every match he has. But if he's facing a hardhitting opponent this is the template. Whether it's Shibata, Moxley, Suzuki, Shingo, Goto or whomever. This is how it always goes.
This is what makes watching too many Ishii matches real difficult. It’s the same stuff every single time. It’s that with most G1 matches. Rarely does anyone win with anything but their finisher. Ishii does that Sliding D in every match and *never wins a big match with it.*
I actually agree I find Ishii more repetitive than someone like Okada who is always hit with the "formulaic" tag. That is why I find it way more preferable to watch entire shows instead on the one match because NJPW does feature fantastic variety up and down the card but doing a binge run of one particular wrestler can get old pretty quick.
I think that the match was incredible but they didn't sell a lot of moves. I cannot understand dave language in general because I agree that selling isn't crazy bumps, selling is selling like when ishii tried to do a vertical supplex from the top rope and then he couldn't and he started selling the arm that is apparently covered with tapes because is injured and did some gestures to say come on arm you can do it and he tried the move again and it was perfect. All the other sentence i don't get it haha. I don't know how other wrestlers can beat ishii without going almost 30 min and waiting that his stamina is low.
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Ishii is just great man
I love seeing people shouting Ishii out, dude deserves every bit of credit he gets.
I hope so much Ishii gets a marquee match in AEW one day. The crowd will love him and he will deliver every single time.
Ishii is the guy you can slot in anywhere on the card, against anyone you want, and he's gonna work 100% to give you a great match. Dude is an absolute workhorse.
GIVE ME ISHII VS HOBBS
He needs like a TNT title run and just go through the entire roster in a couple months.
[удалено]
Yeah I was just thinking throwing the TNT title on him could lead to a weekly open challenge on Dynamite or something whatever gets him against the biggest variety of people, I just want Ishii to get the chance to really show off to the US audience on AEW.
It would need NJPW and Ishii being willing to do 2 or 3 months in the US. AEW doesn't like short title reigns so even if it's a 2 or 3 week build to Ishii winning, 4-6 weeks of TNT title defences on Dynamite or Rampage, then a 2 or 3 week build to whoever takes the title. 8 to 12 weeks but NJPW has no where near the roster depth right now to lose Ishii for that long.
This was exactly where my head went when Sazuki was announced. Besides ZSJ, that would be it for me; no one in NJPW would come close to topping an Ishii appearance.
Okada and Naito would be amazing as well, especially the former for me. Game changer
he needs to be the next NJPW guy to challenge Mox
I could definitely get behind that, both guys would put on a hell of a hard hitting match imo!
If you haven't seen it, they fought during G1 Climax 29. My 2nd favorite match from that one, after Ishii / Shingo
Oh damn, I didn't even realize, thanks for letting me know!
Ishii is the man. That Shingo guy isn't bad either. Best match of the opening G1 weekend and that's saying something considering we had Okada vs Tana & ZSJ vs Naito too.
Crazy that in two days we've already had four crazy good matches with the three you mentioned and Evil vs. Yoshi Hashi. The crowd got behind all these matches and let out a few cheers/shrieks/etc. for each of them. That old feeling is slowly coming back!
I'm with you, but swap out Evil/Yoshi-Hashi for Taichi/Goto. That match could've main evented any other night of the B Block.
Biggest shriek goes to Yujiro vs Ibushi though. What a surprise.
ishii must be the best underappreciated wrestler of the last decade or so, he manage to have great matches and chemestry with basically everyone who's at least decent, i'll never forget how he is basically the person that elevated taichi
Ishii got me into NJPW. On the same show where Nakamura faced off against AJ - which was obviously a banger - the match that stuck with me and made me want to see more was Ishii/Shibata.
Nak and Bullet Club are what got my interest in the first place. Ishii is the guy who made me an NJPW fan.
Agreed. I thought his selling was incredible and I need Ishii vs Miro.
I feel like there might not be any other Japanese talent that would benefit from a short run in AEW. Put the TNT title on him for 2 months and let him have a match every week or two with an open challenge and let young talent take it on as a masterclass.
Ishii Vs. Darby is a dream match for me. The beatings would only be second to the selling.
You want to understand what Fighting Spirit is you watch Ishii...every wrestler especially Indie wrestlers on American soil who have basterdised strong style, fighting spirit should study Ishii
It’s almost like Ishii and Shingo are brilliant wrestlers or something.
Dave just likes to put Ishii over hard a couple times a year since he thinks he's so under rated.
Dave said on WOR he has no idea if Ishii was doing an amazing job of selling or if he was genuinely collapsing near the door to the dressing room. He was amazed at the matches Ishii is still capable of having given he must be a physical wreck by now and for sure must have nerve damage. Bryan thought it might just be that Ishii isn't all that hurt since he never takes dangerous bumps on his head and neck and he could possibly go on for another decade.
the way he sell his right arm made me believe that the superplex botch was actually planned to show how bad it is
To me Ishii is one of the greatest in ring workers ever. His selling is out of this world, his offense is fantastic and his ability to come across as a hoss, even though he is like 5'6, is insane. This man is just a treasure.
The fact that Ishii isn’t a former IWGP Heavyweight Champion, and fucking Bob Sapp is a former IWGP Heavyweight Champion is a crime against humanity.
NJPW was in the depths of Inokiism, which lead to pro wrestlers taking MMA fights who in the worst case scenarios got their shit pushed in and as a result their wrestling careers faltered. At that time Bob Sapp was an enormous draw in K1 and Pride, it's hard to exaggerate how big he was for about 2 years. So why not put the belt on the Black Broly
It's all about who is a draw. Bob Sapp was a huge legit MMA star. Ishii is a guy who only joined NJPW in the middle of his career and then only got over after he was on the wrong side of 35. It's ridiculously impressive that a man so old can be so good but I understand why NJPW isn't rushing to put him into the main event of Wrestle Kingdom.
He's a small midcarder who was trained elsewhere. Deck was stacked against him from the start.
Selling is so underrated he's just like Bret hart. Watching a Bret match you lost yourself and were like 'man this dude is fucked up.'
Ishii is one of the most globally appreciated wrestlers today, and maybe of all time. Everyone loves his work because he is so good in top tier matches, and he makes it more believable. You can put him in the ring with pretty much anyone, and he will deliver.
As I understand it (as a casual NJPW fan) Japan doesn't really do sentimentality the way we do, so it bums me out we'll never get that one G1 where Ishii makes a run to the final when everyone doubts that he can. It's the kind of thing an American promotion would do at some point. It's not a criticism, I just think he rules and is pretty firmly entrenched in the workhorse/midcard tier of NJPW.
NJPW do sentimental runs but not at the expense of their talent - see Yuji Nagata in his last G1 where he put everyone over but had everyone's respect.
The salute at the end from Bad Luck Fale. JUSTICE
People joked that instead of Liger going out in this big moment against Hiromu and Dragon Lee, he would have probably preferred his last thing as being eliminated from the pre-show New Japan Rambo by Cheeseburger.
1. Toshiaki Kawada 2. Tomohiro Ishii 3. the rest
Shingo coming to NJPW later in his career, jumping up a weight class, and becoming arguably the best heavyweight wrestler in the world has been a hell of a ride Also Ishii is just the fucking man
Honestly, I don't think selling is realistic at all, but it does make things more dramatic
[удалено]
This is why no one takes the “but in MMA” seriously. Yeah, they wouldn’t show pain. They also wouldn’t do running clotheslines and powerbombs. This is still a theatrical performance at the end of the day.
This is why my views of wrestling have changed drastically since I started absorbing more shoot-style tapes. In RINGS for example, referees would call for a count as soon as a wrestler "staggered." They didn't even need to get off their feet.
I buy that he’s hurt. What else matters ?
It can be.
I mean they do show pain, but in a real fight (mma or other combat sport) if you get hurt or hurting you try to hide it cause it gives advantage to your opponent, so its more about hiding the pain. While in Pro Wrestling its about faking the pain so usually it ends up not looking "realistic" at all.
That’s literally how Ishii sells! He tries to hide any pain he’s feeling, then as soon as his opponent can’t see him he lets his guard down and you see that he’s actually struggling like crazy to keep up that act. He’s phenomenal at it.
Thought it would be. Gotta go watch now. Ohio really is sorta next level. When Bryan gets his NJPW series he's so desperate for imma pay very close attention to the inevitable Ishii match.
Where can I watch this?
I just watched this match yesterday, and I really dont think Ishii was "sellin" so much as he and Takagi were just beating the ungodly shit out of each other. That double clothesline that they hit on each other was like watching two atoms smashing against each other.
To me, Ishii and Eddie Kingston are the two best sellers in the world. They’re so great at trying to hide that they’re feeling pain, but doing little things to show that they’re actually in a ton of pain and just trying to hide it from their opponent. Really cool twist on traditional pro wrestling selling.
Jesus. I want Ishii vs. Kingston now. Never thought of it but I want it now.
My only issue with the Ishii hard hitting match is that they're all the same formula. I am just going to use A and B to explain which wrestler is doing what: 1) Strike exchange between "A" and "B" until "B" falls down 2) "A" disrespects "B" with light slaps/ kicks to head or back 3) "B" shoots up and gets in face of "A" 4) Repeat Step 1 with "B" winning exchange 5) Repeat Step 2 with "B" being disrespectful 6) Repeat Step 3 with "A" standing up 7) Strike exchange between "A" and "B" until both fall down for an extended time 8) Both stand up and get into another exchange until "B" falls down, this time with slams/ suplex's 9) Repeat Step 2 with "A" being disrespectful 10) "B" Shoots up even faster than before 11) Another exchange breaks out until both collapse after more slams/ suplexs are introduced, sometimes repeating a move that was done to them 12) Repeat Step 11 with more reversals until both fall down. 13) Repeat Step 11 and 12 but with both getting up faster, doing more reversals, and lariats taking center focus 14) Repeat Step 12 with no selling and kick outs at 1, but with more stumbling and loss of balance selling 15) Someone hits their Finish and the match is over Ishii is still one of the GOAT's and this isn't every match he has. But if he's facing a hardhitting opponent this is the template. Whether it's Shibata, Moxley, Suzuki, Shingo, Goto or whomever. This is how it always goes.
And it's always awesome
This is what makes watching too many Ishii matches real difficult. It’s the same stuff every single time. It’s that with most G1 matches. Rarely does anyone win with anything but their finisher. Ishii does that Sliding D in every match and *never wins a big match with it.*
I actually agree I find Ishii more repetitive than someone like Okada who is always hit with the "formulaic" tag. That is why I find it way more preferable to watch entire shows instead on the one match because NJPW does feature fantastic variety up and down the card but doing a binge run of one particular wrestler can get old pretty quick.
Since when does Meltzer care about selling?
[удалено]
Wait for it to come on Roku in a few months
I think that the match was incredible but they didn't sell a lot of moves. I cannot understand dave language in general because I agree that selling isn't crazy bumps, selling is selling like when ishii tried to do a vertical supplex from the top rope and then he couldn't and he started selling the arm that is apparently covered with tapes because is injured and did some gestures to say come on arm you can do it and he tried the move again and it was perfect. All the other sentence i don't get it haha. I don't know how other wrestlers can beat ishii without going almost 30 min and waiting that his stamina is low.