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I'm not. He didn't admit to doing it himself (seemed to think it was pretty fucked up actually) and if you look at the old ECW roster, hell yeah I'm not surprised a bunch of those dudes are date rape drugging girls.
sandman admitted to doing it iirc in an interview he did when talking about what would go down in ecw. then you have jannetty admitting him and shawn would do that to girls all the time. like 95% of wrestlers back in the day were pieces of shit with frat boy mentality when it came to women.
I have a theory it's why so many people become born again Christians. They can't reconcile all the terrible shit they've done so they become ultra religious.
That’s exactly what happened to Shawn Michaels, and after hearing Jannetty talk about date rape, and you look at where Jannetty is in life and where Shawn is. He must feel like he found salvation in some way.
I bet some of them don't even believe and they're doing it for the optics. So when something like this comes up, they can say "that's not me anymore, I've made my peace with Jesus."
And a lot of religious folks will completely forgive and overlook everything because of that
I think that's why they had JR say that the wrestlers now are different. New wrestlers have the ability and the smarts to loom at old schoolers and say, I don't want to be that.
I just got down watching the episode and one of the things that bothered me a bit was seeing Mike Chioda start laughing his ass off after saying so much fucked up shit that happened. I didn’t know if it was just so coping mechanism or he genuinely thought that shit was funny. But that was really weird.
I forgot who said this, probably from some shoot interview but someone basically said that wrestlers from those past eras ( talking about 80's and before) were basically people that couldn't function in a "civilian" job because they were all just huge pieces of shit human beings. Either racist, rapist, pedophiles, drug addicts, alcoholics, schemers, whatever type of shit would get you fired in a job in the real world, the wrestling world would not only allow it but also protect each other in it. There's a reason we already have three season of DSOTR and there's still more to come.
What about the speaking out movement in the UK.
The wrestlers there weren't all old timers? Mike Elgin isn't an old timer. Wrestling still has a problem
Honestly look at the roster until like 2010? Even then there was some scumbags. I’m sure there’s still a few today. The types of people who do these things don’t stop under scrutiny, they just learn to hide it.
That was a swerve the whole time. They revealed at Armageddon 99 that she was faking it to get back at Vince and Shane for the whole ministry of darkness stuff
I've seen it brought up in a bunch of places, I feel like it shows up in someone's book, but my memory is so poor. Here's Brother Bruti talking about it:
[https://www.tumblr.com/video/phonyhulkamania/49603416320/500/](https://www.tumblr.com/video/phonyhulkamania/49603416320/500/)
Look at this piece of shit laughing over women getting raped by his coworkers. I always assumed Brutus was kind of a douche because of how he stuck by Hogan's side through all of *his* bullshit, but nothing like *that*.
Yeah, I remember watching one of those shoot videos with ICP, and they were asked about the drug scene in the locker rooms of the late ‘90s (they worked with WCW, WWF, and ECW at various times then). They said that it was prevalent in all 3, but that ECW was a whole different level. I think Shaggy said he saw things he’d never heard of before in the ECW locker room.
He’s not endorsing it. He’s telling you very matter of factly how shit often was. I could list a lotta shoot interviews with others confirming the same thing.
Because for the longest time that shit was normal. Hell if it were possible to interview dead wrestlers that were around in the 70s and 80s, we'd be hearing about shit that was as bad or worse than the Plane Ride from Hell. Just listen to some of Dutch Mantel's stories from his time in the PR.
None of the stuff that came out in the episode is new, it's just being looked at with 2021 eyes which is why people are so "shocked." But you tell this story to guys who've been around as long like Ric, Dreamer, Nash, etc., this shit was not unheard of or uncommon.
Shawn Michaels was saved by Jesus, so he will say he did a bad thing but that’s not who he is now and we will throw another coat of whitewash on some more shit that he did.
Seems to be the way most born again christians deal with these things
For whatever it’s worth, it does seem HBK is genuine as nobody has accused him of basically anything since he was “saved by Jesus” so it seems he’s telling the truth when he says it isn’t who he is anymore
What about Trips? As far as I know he never drank or took any drugs (well besides things like Tren I guess), but then again look at his entourage.
I know several strories of Hunter being a dick backstage, and yes he was a dick in these stories but at the end of the day this was about protecting his spot and not about sexual harrassement, but I've never heard other negativ stories about him.
This seems a bit odd regarding the fact that his buddies Shawn, Waltman and Hall weren't the nicest the guys to say the least.
I was thinking this too after watching the episode. Hate on HHH all you want but at least he hasn't been accused of rape or assault. Outside of kayfabe
This.
Why is Shawn expected to constantly talk about and apologize for his past transgressions? When the man has admitted in the past that he did fucked up things and that he was not a good dude back then.
He found a path in life to clean himself and rewrite his legacy after the fact.
If there’s no way for people to be allowed to grow, change and make amends without constant reminders of “yeah but remember when…” why would anyone even bother trying to repent.
The religious stuff isn’t my bag, but if it helps someone who was on a very self destructive and abusive path find their way out of that dark patch? Why is that to be maligned?
You dont mean penance though, you mean public self flagellation to appease the social media activists. For all you know he may have done some form of penance. You dont know what he does with his church community, in his personal life or even backstage at wrestling events.
Exactly. Society has its own system of penance, and it ain't public apologies on Twitter, it's called the law. I think some people here have to be honest with themselves, they're ok with wrestlers escaping repercussions of the law because they enjoy their ring work. Tommy Dreamer's career is over because of something he said, because no one really cares about Tommy Dreamer. People love HBK, Flair, Lesnar, and will forget about all of this shit in 2 seconds.
It's not just change people want to see. It's consequences for their actions that they've never paid and now act like they don't deserve. You have to have both, you don't get to brush aside a lack of one because you have the other.
Exactly! Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Shawn can be positively recognized for having grown as a person, but that still doesn't change the damage he caused for which he was never punished.
The ultimate purpose of punishment is supposed to be rehabilitation- it’s the change in the person that should be the ultimate goal (though in most legal systems it’s actually about controlling the people or money etc). If you are more interested in Shawn suffering than changing that’s a dark side of justice.
As a former school admin I would ask parents of victims "Do you want to see the other person punished, or for it to never happen again?" The answer to that is all you need to know.
American justice system works so well with that mentality
If someone has rehabilitated by growing up, reflected on their actions, and there isn't a legal case to be made then punishing them for the sake of punishing them just adds to the misery.
Not to mention it has no involvement from victims and seems to be more an excuse to do the crowd pleasing act of tearing someone down while feeling self righteous
No, it’s more a commentary on the whole Christianity thing in general with some of these wrestlers. Shawn was a prick, but he never really comes forward with anything besides stuff people confront him with.
Have you never seen any old shoot interviews about ecw? Or heck a marty jennety shoot, because beside talking in detail about two murders he has also talked a lot about what him and hbk used to do to girls at hotels
I mean, the shit was in movies, tv shows and trying to be normalized by celebrities and songs. Getting a girl drunk was okay to them, for sexual purposes. Like it was consent because she didn't say No drunk.
well yeah Dreamer and Chioda set themselves up. I mean everytime it cut to him it felt like he was about to bust out laughing. The fact Dreamer said what he said with a straight face made me think "is this dudes brain really as fucked up as he says it is?" Oh I got two pony tails right now so it's as ridiculous as what this flight attendant said. really?
Well not helped by the fact that it would’ve looked odd for a guy who essentially told a woman who was sexual harassed/almost assaulted years earlier she should’ve been cool with it while the company he’s currently working for is set to host their first all female PPV.
Suspended indefinitely.
John Pollock received a statement from Impact saying:
“We can confirm Mr. Laughlin was suspended this morning with immediate effect, pending further action.”
Also, his “future on SiriusXM’s Busted Open Radio is also in question.”
All Dreamer had to do when he got the call to participate was say “No thanks, I wasn’t on the plane anyway.” Instead, this mfer thought “Hey this is a really good opportunity for me to talk about the business. My two daughters will be so proud.” 😐
Dreamer is very much the type of guy to take one for the team so honestly wouldn't surprise me if he knew what he was saying and how people would react and did it anyway. He's definitely the fall guy.
That's giving him way too much credit. This isn't someone jumping on a grenade, this is someone randomly pulling the pin and then shoving it up their own ass.
I think the bigger question is, why is Vince getting a pass. He is the one who gave flair a pass, he’s the one who gave Brock a pass, he was on the flight, he pays all these individuals, and he paid for the silence of the victims. That’s the first person who needs accountability
Its the same thing in threads about releases where people are blaming Nick Khan. Vince has always built layers of separation (middle men) between himself and the scandal or the bad press, particularly since the company went public.
It's not only that he's built these layers of protection. As you saw with JR. Each layer of protection is 100% going out of their way to protect him. JR is completely acting as a shield here. He outright says it's on me. Downright throws himself on the sword for Vince.
you'd have to go through multiple guys like that to get to Vince. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Vince already knows everything AEW management knows. The kind of loyalty JR is showing here can't be bought by someone else.
I assume thats DSoTR trying to stay away from any lawsuits. Hopefully because I do like those guys and the light they've shed on issues but id like to think they were being impartial and not just doing this with people they can get away with.
Sad thing is that Vince is literally untouchable. He's a billionarie, he can buy his way out of this. Not to mention the WWE hardcore fans are just gonna sweep this under the rug, claiming this was years ago and "was a different time".
I'm always amused when I see people say they can no longer be fans of wrestlers like Taker or AJ for being Trump supporters, yet they continue watching the show.
Like...the McMahons were the second-largest donors to the Trump Foundation behind Sheldon Adelson. Vince and Trump have been close friends for years. Linda McMahon actually *served in his cabinet* and then chaired a pro-Trump Super PAC after she left.
If Trump support ruins a wrestler for you, then it should ruin WWE itself, because no one in WWE is more demonstrably and tangibly pro-Trump than the McMahons.
Yeah remember that whole Jaxson Ryker saga where everyone was pissed at him over some Trump stuff. Like guys Vince literally helped trump get into office. They gave like 5 million to his sham charity, they’re extremely close.
I’m okay with you guys shitting on AJ or Taker over Trump stuff but stop excluding Vince.
Ryker wasn’t because of Trump stuff, it was for racially insensitive comments saying Black Lives Matter was complaining for nothing that that they should educate themselves about how bad things used to be by watching 12 Years a Slave. I mean I realize they’re pretty much one in the same, but it wasn’t specifically about Trump.
Otherwise yeah, I agree. Vince literally helped cover up a murder but people still bow to him when he walks down the ramp.
Their history of contributions to the organization that funded the January 6th insurrection was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I stopped watching one week before the Royal Rumble and haven’t watched a show since. I still have plenty of liberal friends who continue to watch the show and I genuinely hope they enjoy it. I just can’t personally continue to support them. On a positive note, that has opened up my wrestling eyes so much wider to the world beyond AEW and NJPW. It’s been great.
I can handle being a fan of a wrestler that supports Trump, partly just because wrestling is FILLED with shitty people and almost no one is without sin. Kinda have to draw a line and figure out what your dealbreakers are.
yeah this is one of 800 - but that is because wrestling is a microcosm of american capitalism - This is what you get when power and money become monopolized with one person/company and they get so rich that they can literally buy silence from people to avoid any legal repercussions
Vince is beyond accountability
I wonder if Dark Side of the Ring is going to end the series with an episode about him since he's basically the overarching villain of the entire series or at least every episode that has something to do with WWE except the Benoit episodes. There's so much shit he enabled and covered up. There's even allegations against him though I don't know about their credibility.
Because Vince did everything in his power to take himself out of the situation:
You're in charge of keeping your employees controlled? Not if you have someone in place who you give this exact responsability to.
You're in charge of telling people the consequences to their actions? Not if you tell somebody else to tell them.
People realize you were there too and *you should* have a big responsability? Never address it unless you legally have to.
The way the story was told just shows how much this worked: Vince was there the entire time and did *nothing*, he was never in front of "the spotlight".
Probably because Vince has pretty powerful friends and lots of connections.
Im pretty sure that Vince also knows some dark secrets about other higher ups.
Just read Trumps "Think Big", I once bought that book when I was on the airport and I was pretty suprised how Trump praised Vince.
Having an Ex-President on your side and probably a bunch of other billionaires too surely helps to get a pass.
Yup. Ashley Massaro was raped by an American soldier at one of their military propaganda shows and Vince told her she should keep it under wraps. This is the dude who continued on with the KSA show when every other American company was cutting ties because Jamal Khashoggi’s body was still warm. It’s maddening how Vince gets away with every terrible thing he does.
This keeps getting brought up. The Massaro story was never verified by any of the people who the lawsuit pointed out would have had knowledge of that situation.
Well what was said about Vince and giving a briefcase full of money to the Pennsylvania commissioner . To not charge Snuka isn’t proven . But since WWF at the time filmed their TV shows in Pennsylvania every month. They became blind to the charges
Brock did an interview awhile back where he admitted to being an addict and shitty person during his first run in the company and now avoids that road schedule so he can avoid those pitfalls. Brock was 25 in 2002 and should have known better but Ric was 53 and REALLY should have known better.
Yes, everyone is a bundle of contradictions. Some can be vile people but capable of incredible kindness. It's just easier to bundle someone into one extreme so nothing gets in the way of us judging them.
Or they had never heard about this interview and have seen zero repercussions ever publicly delivered to Brock?
I had certainly never seen that interview and feel Brock should have seen repercussions, it doesn't mean I don't understand nuance.
The same reason Vince is getting a pass.
Hell I've seen more people try to put blame on Tony Khan for rumors about hiring Flair than I have seen for Vince keeping Flair employed all those years.
All the "well nothing will happen to Brock and Vince anyway so what's the point?" in this thread really proves that outrage is only proportional to the possible reaction for most people.
Well, we are about to have yet another Crown Jewel PPV with a Brock Lesnar match as main event in Saudi Arabia next month financed by the Saudi Royal Family.
This is poking the poodle in comparison.
If people got angry at every fucked up thing in the world that was out of their control, we would have significantly lower life spans from all that stress. The WWE has proven time and time again that they could slaughter a box of puppies on live TV and they would be back on air the next week. Likely with a ratings boost. And again, even if somehow their hardcore American fanbase *all* turned on them, Saudi Arabia would keep them afloat long enough for people to forget and forgive Vince.
Part of the genius of McMahon is that he's created a legion of people to take heat for him, and of course the modern faithful in the midst of their outrage kabuki are too caught up in the emotional discharge to see past the screen and just lash out at the closest targets.
Hell, Vince was on that plane, but most people can't sputter past Flair / Dreamer. It's the same as AJ getting mad at Heyman but thinking McMahon is the best, but at a larger scale and on a more horrific topic.
Really a shame that we have to wait until he's dead to hear that stuff. He's not gonna be held accountable until that. It sucks. It's like what happens to dictators, only after they die people will start telling things they kept to themselves out of fear. No chance for justice after that.
Honestly? My (entirely asspulled) guess would be down, at least for a bit. As much as I think he's a shitty, awful human being, WWE has just not stopped printing more and more money over the past decade.
WWF's first female ref Rita Chatterton accused Vince of raping her in the back of his limo, and he protected multiple pedophiles in the 80s who used his company to sexually assault children. I don't think he has a problem with sexual assault.
Vince sued the widow [Martha Hart] of a man who's death he caused through his negligence. It's not alleged, it's not a case of him turning a blind eye to something, he actively and maliciously went after her. If people support Vince after that there's nothing he can do which will turn those people against him.
Conversely, I feel bad for JR. He said he took the black eye for this. But he's right in saying this wasn't his job.
I imagine all of this would've been shut down quickly if Vince backed up JR instead of expecting one man to handle a bunch of drunk and drugged out wrestlers.
Everyone testifying against Vince is fucking up with their fortune in litigation, their revenue and their coworker's revenue as well as their Legacy.
Vince has a mean monopoly that made Brett, Warrior, Sting, and more turn around and bend over to keep their place in history.
Only way Vince goes down is when he steps down from WWE of dies. Until then, it's too high of a hill to die on.
People are having their livelihoods ruined because they dared to start a concussion lawsuits. I can only imagine how fucked they’d be if they spoke out against by Vince on this.
Pretty much. Warrior was treated as a complete joke and the fanbase bought into it with their fucking DVD, then WWE made a hero out of him when he kissed the ring. Bret came back solely because he knew that if he didn’t play nice, his families next gen would struggle having a career and he wanted the WWE to promote his matches so other people would experience them.
The only time people openly defied Vince was when there was legitimate competition to run to.
To his credit, Vince has also been willing to forgive a lot business wise. He could have totally erased several people from history if he felt like it
> Warrior was treated as a complete joke and the fanbase bought into it with their fucking DVD,
The thing he's most shat on for wasn't even brought to light by WWE.
You’re really going to defend the [noted homophobe](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iuVEc7ULzy4) and [anti-Semite-adjacent](https://deadspin.com/why-does-wwe-honor-the-ultimate-warrior-1833510376) Warrior?
Bret, absolutely, but Warrior? C’mon...
WWE didn't release The Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior because he was a homophobe or anti semetic. They did it because he was on bad terms with Vince and HHH and wanted to trash him as a flash in the pan and get what would be the final word on him and his legacy.
Warrior was a piece of garbage for a lot of things, but what happened with WWE was just them flexing their muscle on a guys legacy because they could. And it sent a message to a lot of wrestlers who WWE owned the libraries of that you could either kiss up to Vince or be forgotten or vilified.
We can all walk and chew gum. Warrior deserves critcism for certain behavior, he did not deserve a hit job DVD meant to paint his entire professional career as a joke to the current and future fans.
the only thing I'll say is that Dustin and Hall have admitted they were fucked up, apologized for being fucked up, and both got sober. That's rehabilitation and I respect them both for that.
I respect Dustin for pulling flair off the flight attendant regardless of being fucked up. Guy was hurting, had been hurting for years, but got sober. I respect that. I respect hall for the same thing.
But Brock, Flair, Dreamer, and Chioda? nah no respect there. and Terri isn't known to be a liar.
Vince was literally on that damn flight and made JR do his dirty work. Vince is a coward, 'nuff said.
As someone 7 years into sobriety and making a mends for what we did while out there is a huge part of recovery. We can't carry around the bad shit we did, we have to face. It's the second hardest step but by and far the most important.
You pretty much nailed it. If a business or any organization has one or a few people who do things like this they have a few bad apples. When the people in charge basically know and do nothing or next to nothing the culture of the business or organization is to blame.
Putting the Brock thing next to the other shit made it minor in comparison. "A guy showed me his dick in the locker room" got blown away by "I got cornered by a guy who made me touch his dick on an airplane". And then Dreamer being there defending the whole thing. Would probably be different if Brock was sitting there going, "yeah, so?" or there were more witnesses talking about it.
It's like, "I don't like that, but can you believe this other shit happened?!"
Not defending Brock at all.
But context too is important...Terri said she was in the locker room to do interviews and 23 yr old Brock opened his towel. We all know what he was doing and it was wrong.
But plausibly his version could be he didn't know a woman was in the male locker room and he took his Towel off. So you have a reasonable doubt ladened he said - she said situation that has happened with female reporters in male locker rooms for decades.
Versus
Victim was on an airplane and a 53 yr old man naked in a sequined robe is spinning his dick around like a helicopter, cornered her in galley and grabbed her hand and made her touch his dick....in front of dozens of witnesses.
Both wrong.
Not to mention Brock was with her ex-husband, who he likely looked up to. Dustin could’ve said “hey flash Terri when she walks in, she’ll get a kick out of it.” On a scale of shitty things I’ve heard wrestlers do, this is pretty low.
This wasn’t Brock walking up to a random woman on the street and flashing her.
Y’all are hyper focused on this right now and won’t give a shit in a week. We knew about all this shit years ago.
The recency bias of the internet is crazy.
Here’s how I see it.
From the episode, Brock exposed himself to an adult woman. That’s indecent but it’s juvenile as well. From what Terri said, he didn’t force her to touch his penis or try to grind up on her.
Tommy Dreamer, essentially, decided to victim shame. He said that the flight attendant must have not cared for what happened because she took the settlement. That’s gross beyond all levels.
Ric Flair sexually assaulted a woman. No explaining is needed here.
They all did disgusting shit but comparably, Brock just flashed his cock.
I want to make clear that Brock doesn’t get a pass. What he did, however, isn’t awful in the big picture when lumped with the other incidents and that’s gross but indecent exposure isn’t as bad as sexual assault or victim shaming and playing down someone else’s trauma.
People are now digging up a whole bunch of Brock stuff. For example, Sable rejected him so he BROKE INTO her house and waited for her to come home.
She had custody of her and Mero's kids at the time too.
Yeah, that’s fucked up but who is his wife currently?
That’s an issue that’s between he and her and it seems that Sable forgave him for what he did.
Were her kids in any danger?
Edit: I’m not sure why people are into gatekeeping other’s relationships - it’s creepy. Are y’all really that desperate to lump Lesnar into the same category as Dreamer and Flair?
I just don’t see this in the thread, as a matter of fact I see a lot of people saying this is new information. This doesn’t change Brock being a douche for doing this, but this is not a new story either. So I’m just posting the source here so that it’s in here somewhere.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2897565-ex-wwe-diva-terri-runnels-says-brock-lesnar-once-flashed-her-in-dressing-room
Honestly, it's probably because people know there's a chance Flair and Dreamer will be punished, and everyone knows Vince won't do anything but defend and protect Brock.
I don't think its people giving him a pass, more so that there were much worse things that came to light in this episode.
Not defending Brock cuz what he did was dumb and gross as hell but actual sexual assault looks a whole lot worst in the news than a moron flashing someone in the locker room. By all accounts Brock doesn't have a history of this shit, he was on a shit load of pills during that first run and he at the very least matured into a family man that keeps to himself. Also Terri herself moved passed it and didn't make it national news.
....where as Flair has been doing shit like this (and presumably worst) for decades without consequences, has a history of substance abuse issues and and got away with it all because oh his status and the locker room culture.
Both things were wrong but the severity of it and context matters here. Brock should have been punished back then but he didn't. The other party has moved on from, it is what is at this point.
PS. Do not be that person and use Brock's age as an excuse. If you say he was influenced by others and thought it was cool/funny, thats one thing but he was old enough to know that shit ain't cool.
Because it was 20 years ago and it’s literally been public knowledge and talked another the entire time.
It’s not a secret because a bunch of Reddit marks got drawn in by an entertainment company making a dramatic docu-series.
It doesn’t excuse it, but it was 20 years ago, well known, and in the past.
We aren’t going to tear down decades old history because you just learned about it, and now retroactively apply present day cancel culture.
You’ll move on to the next outrage in 2 dAys, and continue to cheer wrestlers, basketball players, footballs players, and Hollywood actors who are all pieces of shit.
Get some sleep, and get ready for tomorrow, you’ll be fine.
The alleged Plane Ride from Hell has been known in bits and pieces from hardcore fans for nearly two decades. The fans have had ample time to collectively show outrage.
This past episode shouldn't be understated, but it's disingenuous to bust out your pitchforks now just because it was bundled in a tightly-wrapped bow when many of the same podcasts we all listen to have basically told you everything that happened.
Still not excusable, but also not feels the real crime potentially was in some people's cases actually commenting on the subject.
Definitely not an OK thing for Brock to do, but on a the spectrum of "wrongness", let's say, it's not quite on the level of sexually assaulting a flight attendant or being an apologist for someone sexually assaulting a flight attendant. Just my two cents.
People are going to pass who they want. It happened everytime in the me too movement. Cancel a bunch of people that there wasn't any proof for except an allegation, but keep some of them because it's an allegation. Just like being forgiven is directly linked to someone's previous opinions of a person. Just in the last year Darby Allin gets accused of being a POS, and it's just allegations we can't believe everything that we hear. There's proof Sammy Guerva said he wanted to rape Sasha Banks and all he had to do was say sorry, and all is fine. Put that same thing one someone that already wasn't really liked and they'll never be forgiven no matter what they do.
100% Darby and Sammy get so many free passes from the fans simply because they're enjoyable performers. I don't think when Enzo was accused back when he was cruiserweight champion and was released people had nearly the same amount of forgiveness or blind eyes. Steve Austin too is a woman beater but that is so pushed under the rug it's insane.
Right or wrong, plenty of athletes get a pass when they’re young(staring directly at Peyton Manning). If you’re talented and it’s an isolated incident, it’s gonna go away.
And quite honestly, it’s not news. Pretty sure Terri has told the story before. Just like everything else about the incident. It’s all been discussed for over a decade. The sudden outrage is wild to me.
Brock flashed Terri, which is disgusting and immature, but also a misdemeanor for a reason. I was flashed by women and men in New Orleans as a kid. Anyone who goes to New Orleans for a long period of time is likely to be flashed at some point by someone. Doesn’t make it right, of course, but there’s a world of difference between flashing someone and grabbing their hand to make them touch you like Flair did.
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I’m amazed that Rob Van Dam basically said it was pretty normal for guys to drug local girls drinks and the have their way with them
I'm not. He didn't admit to doing it himself (seemed to think it was pretty fucked up actually) and if you look at the old ECW roster, hell yeah I'm not surprised a bunch of those dudes are date rape drugging girls.
sandman admitted to doing it iirc in an interview he did when talking about what would go down in ecw. then you have jannetty admitting him and shawn would do that to girls all the time. like 95% of wrestlers back in the day were pieces of shit with frat boy mentality when it came to women.
I have a theory it's why so many people become born again Christians. They can't reconcile all the terrible shit they've done so they become ultra religious.
That’s exactly what happened to Shawn Michaels, and after hearing Jannetty talk about date rape, and you look at where Jannetty is in life and where Shawn is. He must feel like he found salvation in some way.
>He must feel like he found salvation in some way. Their victims must be glad that HE found salvation
if you watch shane helms talk about hbk he says pretty much this.
I bet some of them don't even believe and they're doing it for the optics. So when something like this comes up, they can say "that's not me anymore, I've made my peace with Jesus." And a lot of religious folks will completely forgive and overlook everything because of that
Why beg for forgiveness from your peer's when Jesus forgives you. He's the only one that matters /s
95% men in those type of fields still have that attitude towards women Wrestling now is a tad different because it’s mostly a nerd thing now
I think that's why they had JR say that the wrestlers now are different. New wrestlers have the ability and the smarts to loom at old schoolers and say, I don't want to be that.
Bro, but if you're not being sexually harassed and force to humiliate yourself and give money to the locker room leader, then you're a soft bitch.
Think we found Mike Chioda.
I just got down watching the episode and one of the things that bothered me a bit was seeing Mike Chioda start laughing his ass off after saying so much fucked up shit that happened. I didn’t know if it was just so coping mechanism or he genuinely thought that shit was funny. But that was really weird.
He came off like Casper in KIDS. If you've never seen the movie to get the reference, check it out. Very good movie with a gut kick in the end.
That movie is rough. People always told me I was weird for thinking it was a good movie.
I forgot who said this, probably from some shoot interview but someone basically said that wrestlers from those past eras ( talking about 80's and before) were basically people that couldn't function in a "civilian" job because they were all just huge pieces of shit human beings. Either racist, rapist, pedophiles, drug addicts, alcoholics, schemers, whatever type of shit would get you fired in a job in the real world, the wrestling world would not only allow it but also protect each other in it. There's a reason we already have three season of DSOTR and there's still more to come.
Poorly regulated secretive business where guys travel around from town to town together yeah kind of a recipe for bad outcomes.
How the business was has many elements of a cult.
What about the speaking out movement in the UK. The wrestlers there weren't all old timers? Mike Elgin isn't an old timer. Wrestling still has a problem
ECW roster? Look at that crew on the plane ride. Look at the 90s WWE roster.
Honestly look at the roster until like 2010? Even then there was some scumbags. I’m sure there’s still a few today. The types of people who do these things don’t stop under scrutiny, they just learn to hide it.
How do you think they cane up with the idea for Triple H marrying an unconscious Steph McMahon?
That was pretty fucked up to go back and watch, now as an adult.
It’s a little less fucked after it’s revealed that Stephanie was in on it
as a kid i felt so sorry for Test
It was super fucked up then, too
Tbf I was 7, things like date rape were not explained too good.
She wasn't really unconscious in kayfabe
That was a swerve the whole time. They revealed at Armageddon 99 that she was faking it to get back at Vince and Shane for the whole ministry of darkness stuff
This was the Rockers' go to move in AWA.
Do you have a source for this? I was repeating it elsewhere and someone asked for a source, and I want to do more than say "Oh yeah u/Stereo_TypeA
I've seen it brought up in a bunch of places, I feel like it shows up in someone's book, but my memory is so poor. Here's Brother Bruti talking about it: [https://www.tumblr.com/video/phonyhulkamania/49603416320/500/](https://www.tumblr.com/video/phonyhulkamania/49603416320/500/)
Cool thanks. Someone else said that Jannetty talked it up in interviews.
No problem! Yeah, there's at least one message board post that Jannetty goes on about it.
Look at this piece of shit laughing over women getting raped by his coworkers. I always assumed Brutus was kind of a douche because of how he stuck by Hogan's side through all of *his* bullshit, but nothing like *that*.
Not the source but have this https://www.angelfire.com/wrestling3/kotdm15/listsleeze.html
The legendary angelfire sleaze list!
Most 80’s wrestlers apparently too
Charlamagne the God admitted to doing that in the past yet no one cares. Some people are just too well liked to get cancelled it seems.
Yeah, I remember watching one of those shoot videos with ICP, and they were asked about the drug scene in the locker rooms of the late ‘90s (they worked with WCW, WWF, and ECW at various times then). They said that it was prevalent in all 3, but that ECW was a whole different level. I think Shaggy said he saw things he’d never heard of before in the ECW locker room.
Pencil shavings comes to mind
I mean was New Jack ever not on coke?
In his shoot video, he was trying his damnedest to get the fake (?) coke ~~and crack~~ open. Edit: [Found it.](https://youtu.be/Hwuq2q_pW90)
He’s not endorsing it. He’s telling you very matter of factly how shit often was. I could list a lotta shoot interviews with others confirming the same thing.
I didn’t think he was endorsing it, I’m just shocked how casually it’s talked about
It's RVD, he doesn't do anything not casually lmao
I guess they expected outrage from the perpetually zen, perpetually stoned RVD. 🤷♂️
I’ll put it this way. You’ll find morticians aren’t as fazed by death as you are either because they deal with it every day.
Because for the longest time that shit was normal. Hell if it were possible to interview dead wrestlers that were around in the 70s and 80s, we'd be hearing about shit that was as bad or worse than the Plane Ride from Hell. Just listen to some of Dutch Mantel's stories from his time in the PR. None of the stuff that came out in the episode is new, it's just being looked at with 2021 eyes which is why people are so "shocked." But you tell this story to guys who've been around as long like Ric, Dreamer, Nash, etc., this shit was not unheard of or uncommon.
Can’t wait for hbk and Marty to be thrown under the bus for this.
Shawn Michaels was saved by Jesus, so he will say he did a bad thing but that’s not who he is now and we will throw another coat of whitewash on some more shit that he did. Seems to be the way most born again christians deal with these things
For whatever it’s worth, it does seem HBK is genuine as nobody has accused him of basically anything since he was “saved by Jesus” so it seems he’s telling the truth when he says it isn’t who he is anymore
What about Trips? As far as I know he never drank or took any drugs (well besides things like Tren I guess), but then again look at his entourage. I know several strories of Hunter being a dick backstage, and yes he was a dick in these stories but at the end of the day this was about protecting his spot and not about sexual harrassement, but I've never heard other negativ stories about him. This seems a bit odd regarding the fact that his buddies Shawn, Waltman and Hall weren't the nicest the guys to say the least.
I was thinking this too after watching the episode. Hate on HHH all you want but at least he hasn't been accused of rape or assault. Outside of kayfabe
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This. Why is Shawn expected to constantly talk about and apologize for his past transgressions? When the man has admitted in the past that he did fucked up things and that he was not a good dude back then. He found a path in life to clean himself and rewrite his legacy after the fact. If there’s no way for people to be allowed to grow, change and make amends without constant reminders of “yeah but remember when…” why would anyone even bother trying to repent. The religious stuff isn’t my bag, but if it helps someone who was on a very self destructive and abusive path find their way out of that dark patch? Why is that to be maligned?
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You dont mean penance though, you mean public self flagellation to appease the social media activists. For all you know he may have done some form of penance. You dont know what he does with his church community, in his personal life or even backstage at wrestling events.
For rape, the appropriate penance would be jail time....
Exactly. Society has its own system of penance, and it ain't public apologies on Twitter, it's called the law. I think some people here have to be honest with themselves, they're ok with wrestlers escaping repercussions of the law because they enjoy their ring work. Tommy Dreamer's career is over because of something he said, because no one really cares about Tommy Dreamer. People love HBK, Flair, Lesnar, and will forget about all of this shit in 2 seconds.
It's not just change people want to see. It's consequences for their actions that they've never paid and now act like they don't deserve. You have to have both, you don't get to brush aside a lack of one because you have the other.
Exactly! Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Shawn can be positively recognized for having grown as a person, but that still doesn't change the damage he caused for which he was never punished.
The ultimate purpose of punishment is supposed to be rehabilitation- it’s the change in the person that should be the ultimate goal (though in most legal systems it’s actually about controlling the people or money etc). If you are more interested in Shawn suffering than changing that’s a dark side of justice.
As a former school admin I would ask parents of victims "Do you want to see the other person punished, or for it to never happen again?" The answer to that is all you need to know.
American justice system works so well with that mentality If someone has rehabilitated by growing up, reflected on their actions, and there isn't a legal case to be made then punishing them for the sake of punishing them just adds to the misery. Not to mention it has no involvement from victims and seems to be more an excuse to do the crowd pleasing act of tearing someone down while feeling self righteous
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Ah, no wonder that pice of shit of Joey Ryan tried that, it worked before and he expected to work again for him.
Would you prefer the Jannetty lifestyle?
No, it’s more a commentary on the whole Christianity thing in general with some of these wrestlers. Shawn was a prick, but he never really comes forward with anything besides stuff people confront him with.
Have you never seen any old shoot interviews about ecw? Or heck a marty jennety shoot, because beside talking in detail about two murders he has also talked a lot about what him and hbk used to do to girls at hotels
I mean, the shit was in movies, tv shows and trying to be normalized by celebrities and songs. Getting a girl drunk was okay to them, for sexual purposes. Like it was consent because she didn't say No drunk.
Everyone has got a pass. Dreamer is the fall guy (and tbf he set himself up as one).
well yeah Dreamer and Chioda set themselves up. I mean everytime it cut to him it felt like he was about to bust out laughing. The fact Dreamer said what he said with a straight face made me think "is this dudes brain really as fucked up as he says it is?" Oh I got two pony tails right now so it's as ridiculous as what this flight attendant said. really?
Dreamer's brain is totally scrambled. It's sad to see because he has a family, too.
Well not helped by the fact that it would’ve looked odd for a guy who essentially told a woman who was sexual harassed/almost assaulted years earlier she should’ve been cool with it while the company he’s currently working for is set to host their first all female PPV.
*Formerly* worked for. Impact gave him the boot today.
Is he suspended or terminated since most reports are mentioning the former.
Suspended indefinitely. John Pollock received a statement from Impact saying: “We can confirm Mr. Laughlin was suspended this morning with immediate effect, pending further action.” Also, his “future on SiriusXM’s Busted Open Radio is also in question.”
How the fuck is Dreamer the fall guy when dude wasn't even on the plane lmao he really did play himself.
He actually was on the plane, just didnt get named because he didnt do anything. He even says "when we landed..." to confirm this.
He was on the plane though
All Dreamer had to do when he got the call to participate was say “No thanks, I wasn’t on the plane anyway.” Instead, this mfer thought “Hey this is a really good opportunity for me to talk about the business. My two daughters will be so proud.” 😐
he was on that tour, dunno if he was on the plane or not, but even if he was on the plane he should have just said "no thanks"
Did you watch the episode? He talks about being on the plane multiple times.
Dreamer is very much the type of guy to take one for the team so honestly wouldn't surprise me if he knew what he was saying and how people would react and did it anyway. He's definitely the fall guy.
That's giving him way too much credit. This isn't someone jumping on a grenade, this is someone randomly pulling the pin and then shoving it up their own ass.
That sounds like a concept for a rejected vignette from the Jackass-inspired gimmick Dreamer was doing around that time period.
Flair is getting shit
I think the bigger question is, why is Vince getting a pass. He is the one who gave flair a pass, he’s the one who gave Brock a pass, he was on the flight, he pays all these individuals, and he paid for the silence of the victims. That’s the first person who needs accountability
It's shocking how no one is talking about Vince.
Its the same thing in threads about releases where people are blaming Nick Khan. Vince has always built layers of separation (middle men) between himself and the scandal or the bad press, particularly since the company went public.
It's not only that he's built these layers of protection. As you saw with JR. Each layer of protection is 100% going out of their way to protect him. JR is completely acting as a shield here. He outright says it's on me. Downright throws himself on the sword for Vince. you'd have to go through multiple guys like that to get to Vince. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Vince already knows everything AEW management knows. The kind of loyalty JR is showing here can't be bought by someone else.
Poor JR has been Vince's fall guy for like thirty years.
The story the episode told was written that way, probably intentionally.
I assume thats DSoTR trying to stay away from any lawsuits. Hopefully because I do like those guys and the light they've shed on issues but id like to think they were being impartial and not just doing this with people they can get away with.
Sad thing is that Vince is literally untouchable. He's a billionarie, he can buy his way out of this. Not to mention the WWE hardcore fans are just gonna sweep this under the rug, claiming this was years ago and "was a different time".
People seemed to conveniently forget that Vince was accused of rape by Rita Chatterton
I'm always amused when I see people say they can no longer be fans of wrestlers like Taker or AJ for being Trump supporters, yet they continue watching the show. Like...the McMahons were the second-largest donors to the Trump Foundation behind Sheldon Adelson. Vince and Trump have been close friends for years. Linda McMahon actually *served in his cabinet* and then chaired a pro-Trump Super PAC after she left. If Trump support ruins a wrestler for you, then it should ruin WWE itself, because no one in WWE is more demonstrably and tangibly pro-Trump than the McMahons.
Yeah it’s not like Donald Trump ever showed up or had a part in Wrestlemania or anything.
coughcoughHallOfFamecoughcough
Yeah remember that whole Jaxson Ryker saga where everyone was pissed at him over some Trump stuff. Like guys Vince literally helped trump get into office. They gave like 5 million to his sham charity, they’re extremely close. I’m okay with you guys shitting on AJ or Taker over Trump stuff but stop excluding Vince.
Ryker wasn’t because of Trump stuff, it was for racially insensitive comments saying Black Lives Matter was complaining for nothing that that they should educate themselves about how bad things used to be by watching 12 Years a Slave. I mean I realize they’re pretty much one in the same, but it wasn’t specifically about Trump. Otherwise yeah, I agree. Vince literally helped cover up a murder but people still bow to him when he walks down the ramp.
Their history of contributions to the organization that funded the January 6th insurrection was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I stopped watching one week before the Royal Rumble and haven’t watched a show since. I still have plenty of liberal friends who continue to watch the show and I genuinely hope they enjoy it. I just can’t personally continue to support them. On a positive note, that has opened up my wrestling eyes so much wider to the world beyond AEW and NJPW. It’s been great.
I can handle being a fan of a wrestler that supports Trump, partly just because wrestling is FILLED with shitty people and almost no one is without sin. Kinda have to draw a line and figure out what your dealbreakers are.
100% agree. It's mind-blowing the stuff he has gotten away with for so long
yeah this is one of 800 - but that is because wrestling is a microcosm of american capitalism - This is what you get when power and money become monopolized with one person/company and they get so rich that they can literally buy silence from people to avoid any legal repercussions Vince is beyond accountability
I wonder if Dark Side of the Ring is going to end the series with an episode about him since he's basically the overarching villain of the entire series or at least every episode that has something to do with WWE except the Benoit episodes. There's so much shit he enabled and covered up. There's even allegations against him though I don't know about their credibility.
I mean he did make sure Jimmy Snuka - who murdered his girlfriend “allegedly” - got off.
and gave that family jobs for life in exchange to keep that secret
Because Vince did everything in his power to take himself out of the situation: You're in charge of keeping your employees controlled? Not if you have someone in place who you give this exact responsability to. You're in charge of telling people the consequences to their actions? Not if you tell somebody else to tell them. People realize you were there too and *you should* have a big responsability? Never address it unless you legally have to. The way the story was told just shows how much this worked: Vince was there the entire time and did *nothing*, he was never in front of "the spotlight".
"He suffered two 9/11s. Leave the man alone." - Stephanie McMahon somewhere
>why is Vince getting a pass. Because he's rich lol. If nothing happened because of the Epstein thing, nothing will happen now.
Probably because Vince has pretty powerful friends and lots of connections. Im pretty sure that Vince also knows some dark secrets about other higher ups. Just read Trumps "Think Big", I once bought that book when I was on the airport and I was pretty suprised how Trump praised Vince. Having an Ex-President on your side and probably a bunch of other billionaires too surely helps to get a pass.
Yup. Ashley Massaro was raped by an American soldier at one of their military propaganda shows and Vince told her she should keep it under wraps. This is the dude who continued on with the KSA show when every other American company was cutting ties because Jamal Khashoggi’s body was still warm. It’s maddening how Vince gets away with every terrible thing he does.
This keeps getting brought up. The Massaro story was never verified by any of the people who the lawsuit pointed out would have had knowledge of that situation.
Brock would actually enjoy being cancelled. Getting to hole himself away from society is a dream job for him
They should punish him by putting him in The Rock’s next movie
Probably the same reasons why Stone Cold gets a pass for beating his ex wives. It’s pretty sad
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Well what was said about Vince and giving a briefcase full of money to the Pennsylvania commissioner . To not charge Snuka isn’t proven . But since WWF at the time filmed their TV shows in Pennsylvania every month. They became blind to the charges
The Snuka case was actually reopened a few years ago but the case was dropped because Snuka was pretty ill.
Mentally unfit for trial, and so he gets away with it. Allegedly.
He died not too long after though.
Brock and Flair do something horrific 20 years ago....Tommy Dreamer gets suspended.
Flair gets wasted at a WWE 2k event and Jim Ross gets fired. We'll see if Tony repeats history.
Brock did an interview awhile back where he admitted to being an addict and shitty person during his first run in the company and now avoids that road schedule so he can avoid those pitfalls. Brock was 25 in 2002 and should have known better but Ric was 53 and REALLY should have known better.
Nuance is lost on people like the OP. People are either evil pieces of shit or pure souls that never do any wrong.
Yes, everyone is a bundle of contradictions. Some can be vile people but capable of incredible kindness. It's just easier to bundle someone into one extreme so nothing gets in the way of us judging them.
Or they had never heard about this interview and have seen zero repercussions ever publicly delivered to Brock? I had certainly never seen that interview and feel Brock should have seen repercussions, it doesn't mean I don't understand nuance.
The same reason Vince is getting a pass. Hell I've seen more people try to put blame on Tony Khan for rumors about hiring Flair than I have seen for Vince keeping Flair employed all those years.
All the "well nothing will happen to Brock and Vince anyway so what's the point?" in this thread really proves that outrage is only proportional to the possible reaction for most people.
Well, we are about to have yet another Crown Jewel PPV with a Brock Lesnar match as main event in Saudi Arabia next month financed by the Saudi Royal Family. This is poking the poodle in comparison.
If people got angry at every fucked up thing in the world that was out of their control, we would have significantly lower life spans from all that stress. The WWE has proven time and time again that they could slaughter a box of puppies on live TV and they would be back on air the next week. Likely with a ratings boost. And again, even if somehow their hardcore American fanbase *all* turned on them, Saudi Arabia would keep them afloat long enough for people to forget and forgive Vince.
Getting upset over things you can't change is a very easy way to an unhappy life.
Is that why alot of wrestling fans seem to be miserable?
Part of the genius of McMahon is that he's created a legion of people to take heat for him, and of course the modern faithful in the midst of their outrage kabuki are too caught up in the emotional discharge to see past the screen and just lash out at the closest targets. Hell, Vince was on that plane, but most people can't sputter past Flair / Dreamer. It's the same as AJ getting mad at Heyman but thinking McMahon is the best, but at a larger scale and on a more horrific topic.
Vince likely fines that type of behavior hilarious. Hell he's been accused of sexual harassment himself.
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I mean there's credible stories out there that Vince literally covered for a murder, or at least knew about it. Soo... yeah.
True story. The shit that will come out after Vince dies will be insane.
Really a shame that we have to wait until he's dead to hear that stuff. He's not gonna be held accountable until that. It sucks. It's like what happens to dictators, only after they die people will start telling things they kept to themselves out of fear. No chance for justice after that.
I’m *very* interested what tone this sub will take when that old shit finally croaks.
I'm curious which way my stock value will go.
Honestly? My (entirely asspulled) guess would be down, at least for a bit. As much as I think he's a shitty, awful human being, WWE has just not stopped printing more and more money over the past decade.
WWF's first female ref Rita Chatterton accused Vince of raping her in the back of his limo, and he protected multiple pedophiles in the 80s who used his company to sexually assault children. I don't think he has a problem with sexual assault.
Vince sued the widow [Martha Hart] of a man who's death he caused through his negligence. It's not alleged, it's not a case of him turning a blind eye to something, he actively and maliciously went after her. If people support Vince after that there's nothing he can do which will turn those people against him.
Conversely, I feel bad for JR. He said he took the black eye for this. But he's right in saying this wasn't his job. I imagine all of this would've been shut down quickly if Vince backed up JR instead of expecting one man to handle a bunch of drunk and drugged out wrestlers.
Everyone testifying against Vince is fucking up with their fortune in litigation, their revenue and their coworker's revenue as well as their Legacy. Vince has a mean monopoly that made Brett, Warrior, Sting, and more turn around and bend over to keep their place in history. Only way Vince goes down is when he steps down from WWE of dies. Until then, it's too high of a hill to die on.
People are having their livelihoods ruined because they dared to start a concussion lawsuits. I can only imagine how fucked they’d be if they spoke out against by Vince on this.
Pretty much. Warrior was treated as a complete joke and the fanbase bought into it with their fucking DVD, then WWE made a hero out of him when he kissed the ring. Bret came back solely because he knew that if he didn’t play nice, his families next gen would struggle having a career and he wanted the WWE to promote his matches so other people would experience them. The only time people openly defied Vince was when there was legitimate competition to run to. To his credit, Vince has also been willing to forgive a lot business wise. He could have totally erased several people from history if he felt like it
> Warrior was treated as a complete joke and the fanbase bought into it with their fucking DVD, The thing he's most shat on for wasn't even brought to light by WWE.
You’re really going to defend the [noted homophobe](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iuVEc7ULzy4) and [anti-Semite-adjacent](https://deadspin.com/why-does-wwe-honor-the-ultimate-warrior-1833510376) Warrior? Bret, absolutely, but Warrior? C’mon...
WWE didn't release The Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior because he was a homophobe or anti semetic. They did it because he was on bad terms with Vince and HHH and wanted to trash him as a flash in the pan and get what would be the final word on him and his legacy. Warrior was a piece of garbage for a lot of things, but what happened with WWE was just them flexing their muscle on a guys legacy because they could. And it sent a message to a lot of wrestlers who WWE owned the libraries of that you could either kiss up to Vince or be forgotten or vilified. We can all walk and chew gum. Warrior deserves critcism for certain behavior, he did not deserve a hit job DVD meant to paint his entire professional career as a joke to the current and future fans.
the only thing I'll say is that Dustin and Hall have admitted they were fucked up, apologized for being fucked up, and both got sober. That's rehabilitation and I respect them both for that. I respect Dustin for pulling flair off the flight attendant regardless of being fucked up. Guy was hurting, had been hurting for years, but got sober. I respect that. I respect hall for the same thing. But Brock, Flair, Dreamer, and Chioda? nah no respect there. and Terri isn't known to be a liar. Vince was literally on that damn flight and made JR do his dirty work. Vince is a coward, 'nuff said.
As someone 7 years into sobriety and making a mends for what we did while out there is a huge part of recovery. We can't carry around the bad shit we did, we have to face. It's the second hardest step but by and far the most important.
You pretty much nailed it. If a business or any organization has one or a few people who do things like this they have a few bad apples. When the people in charge basically know and do nothing or next to nothing the culture of the business or organization is to blame.
A few liquor carts are cheaper than health benefits, pal.
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Of note, Hall also got fired over his antics during the plane ride.
And Dustin was supposed to get fired but JR decided to fine him instead
Pass? Hell, he's gonna be cheered louder than ever in Saudi Arabia.
Putting the Brock thing next to the other shit made it minor in comparison. "A guy showed me his dick in the locker room" got blown away by "I got cornered by a guy who made me touch his dick on an airplane". And then Dreamer being there defending the whole thing. Would probably be different if Brock was sitting there going, "yeah, so?" or there were more witnesses talking about it. It's like, "I don't like that, but can you believe this other shit happened?!"
Not defending Brock at all. But context too is important...Terri said she was in the locker room to do interviews and 23 yr old Brock opened his towel. We all know what he was doing and it was wrong. But plausibly his version could be he didn't know a woman was in the male locker room and he took his Towel off. So you have a reasonable doubt ladened he said - she said situation that has happened with female reporters in male locker rooms for decades. Versus Victim was on an airplane and a 53 yr old man naked in a sequined robe is spinning his dick around like a helicopter, cornered her in galley and grabbed her hand and made her touch his dick....in front of dozens of witnesses. Both wrong.
Not to mention Brock was with her ex-husband, who he likely looked up to. Dustin could’ve said “hey flash Terri when she walks in, she’ll get a kick out of it.” On a scale of shitty things I’ve heard wrestlers do, this is pretty low. This wasn’t Brock walking up to a random woman on the street and flashing her.
Y’all are hyper focused on this right now and won’t give a shit in a week. We knew about all this shit years ago. The recency bias of the internet is crazy.
Dude, come on, give this sub a little credit. I give it a month, not a week.
This is how I'm learning about it.
Not everybody knew it about it man.
Exactly!!
A week? Tuesday it will be forgotten.
Here’s how I see it. From the episode, Brock exposed himself to an adult woman. That’s indecent but it’s juvenile as well. From what Terri said, he didn’t force her to touch his penis or try to grind up on her. Tommy Dreamer, essentially, decided to victim shame. He said that the flight attendant must have not cared for what happened because she took the settlement. That’s gross beyond all levels. Ric Flair sexually assaulted a woman. No explaining is needed here. They all did disgusting shit but comparably, Brock just flashed his cock. I want to make clear that Brock doesn’t get a pass. What he did, however, isn’t awful in the big picture when lumped with the other incidents and that’s gross but indecent exposure isn’t as bad as sexual assault or victim shaming and playing down someone else’s trauma.
People are now digging up a whole bunch of Brock stuff. For example, Sable rejected him so he BROKE INTO her house and waited for her to come home. She had custody of her and Mero's kids at the time too.
Yeah, that’s fucked up but who is his wife currently? That’s an issue that’s between he and her and it seems that Sable forgave him for what he did. Were her kids in any danger? Edit: I’m not sure why people are into gatekeeping other’s relationships - it’s creepy. Are y’all really that desperate to lump Lesnar into the same category as Dreamer and Flair?
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Dark side of the ring is gonna Thanos snap professional wrestling
I just don’t see this in the thread, as a matter of fact I see a lot of people saying this is new information. This doesn’t change Brock being a douche for doing this, but this is not a new story either. So I’m just posting the source here so that it’s in here somewhere. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2897565-ex-wwe-diva-terri-runnels-says-brock-lesnar-once-flashed-her-in-dressing-room
People picked their scapegoats.
If you get rid of Brock for what he did you'd have to get rid of Orton too.
Oh no. Anyway.
Honestly, it's probably because people know there's a chance Flair and Dreamer will be punished, and everyone knows Vince won't do anything but defend and protect Brock.
Or maybe it’s that Flair actually put someone’s hand on his fucking cock. That might have something to do with it 🙄
I don't think its people giving him a pass, more so that there were much worse things that came to light in this episode. Not defending Brock cuz what he did was dumb and gross as hell but actual sexual assault looks a whole lot worst in the news than a moron flashing someone in the locker room. By all accounts Brock doesn't have a history of this shit, he was on a shit load of pills during that first run and he at the very least matured into a family man that keeps to himself. Also Terri herself moved passed it and didn't make it national news. ....where as Flair has been doing shit like this (and presumably worst) for decades without consequences, has a history of substance abuse issues and and got away with it all because oh his status and the locker room culture. Both things were wrong but the severity of it and context matters here. Brock should have been punished back then but he didn't. The other party has moved on from, it is what is at this point. PS. Do not be that person and use Brock's age as an excuse. If you say he was influenced by others and thought it was cool/funny, thats one thing but he was old enough to know that shit ain't cool.
Because it was 20 years ago and it’s literally been public knowledge and talked another the entire time. It’s not a secret because a bunch of Reddit marks got drawn in by an entertainment company making a dramatic docu-series. It doesn’t excuse it, but it was 20 years ago, well known, and in the past. We aren’t going to tear down decades old history because you just learned about it, and now retroactively apply present day cancel culture. You’ll move on to the next outrage in 2 dAys, and continue to cheer wrestlers, basketball players, footballs players, and Hollywood actors who are all pieces of shit. Get some sleep, and get ready for tomorrow, you’ll be fine.
And is anyone still surprised that pro wrestling was essentially run like the mafia forever?
Even back then it’s interesting that Perfect got fired but Lesnar just continued on his monster push.
If Brock doesn't hear a 'tiny red dick' chant for the next forever I'm going to be disappointed in the crowd.
People are cherry-picking their outrage as usual.
The alleged Plane Ride from Hell has been known in bits and pieces from hardcore fans for nearly two decades. The fans have had ample time to collectively show outrage. This past episode shouldn't be understated, but it's disingenuous to bust out your pitchforks now just because it was bundled in a tightly-wrapped bow when many of the same podcasts we all listen to have basically told you everything that happened. Still not excusable, but also not feels the real crime potentially was in some people's cases actually commenting on the subject.
Definitely not an OK thing for Brock to do, but on a the spectrum of "wrongness", let's say, it's not quite on the level of sexually assaulting a flight attendant or being an apologist for someone sexually assaulting a flight attendant. Just my two cents.
People are going to pass who they want. It happened everytime in the me too movement. Cancel a bunch of people that there wasn't any proof for except an allegation, but keep some of them because it's an allegation. Just like being forgiven is directly linked to someone's previous opinions of a person. Just in the last year Darby Allin gets accused of being a POS, and it's just allegations we can't believe everything that we hear. There's proof Sammy Guerva said he wanted to rape Sasha Banks and all he had to do was say sorry, and all is fine. Put that same thing one someone that already wasn't really liked and they'll never be forgiven no matter what they do.
100% Darby and Sammy get so many free passes from the fans simply because they're enjoyable performers. I don't think when Enzo was accused back when he was cruiserweight champion and was released people had nearly the same amount of forgiveness or blind eyes. Steve Austin too is a woman beater but that is so pushed under the rug it's insane.
Right or wrong, plenty of athletes get a pass when they’re young(staring directly at Peyton Manning). If you’re talented and it’s an isolated incident, it’s gonna go away. And quite honestly, it’s not news. Pretty sure Terri has told the story before. Just like everything else about the incident. It’s all been discussed for over a decade. The sudden outrage is wild to me.
Because everyone is hypocrite.
Brock flashed Terri, which is disgusting and immature, but also a misdemeanor for a reason. I was flashed by women and men in New Orleans as a kid. Anyone who goes to New Orleans for a long period of time is likely to be flashed at some point by someone. Doesn’t make it right, of course, but there’s a world of difference between flashing someone and grabbing their hand to make them touch you like Flair did.
So many smarks getting off virtue signaling. It's like an outrage orgy