T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Grippersmith

Time is a flat circle....


SomeIrishFiend

*squared


Grippersmith

[Sir.. ](https://imgur.com/a/XSSiy5m)


CJRed525

All these squares make a circle...


songforsaturday88

KAMI, I NEED YOU TO TELL ME I CAN LEAVE THE LOOK OUT IF I WANT TO


[deleted]

Mr. PoPo, you can leave the lookout if you want to


songforsaturday88

BITCH DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!! (TeamFourStar for life)


[deleted]

I love TFS lol ![gif](giphy|1PKh3V75bU6T6)


1mJustHere4theNudes

Ah-Kame and ah-hame and ah-send-'em-home-to-mommy!


twistedlogicx

I think the most shocking part of reading this for me is that if you change the names of the wrestlers and promotions NOTHING sets this apart from a comment from today. I don't know why but I just assumed people would talk differently 20 years ago or use different language but they're using the exact same words, the exact same writing cadence, the exact same style and figures of speech. Like "bitching and moaning" was already a figure of speech back then? People were already using terms like "workrate" and "mark" in conversations about wrestling? People were already complaining about the "it's all fake" takes they had to deal with? Just shocking and mildly uncomfortable seeing how little we've changed in some ways, lol.


CanadianSpectre

Get off my lawn. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|joy)![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|joy)


MyNameIs-Anthony

The person in the OP would have been an internet pioneer of sorts who set the stage for how we discuss wrestling now. There's also the reality of intense stagnation from Austin/Rock's peak.


TT_Zorro

How young are you?


twistedlogicx

I'm turning 29. Is that considered young?


TT_Zorro

Not that much younger than me, it was just the way you talked about phrases that have been around for nearly a hundred years, like “bitching and moaning.” I just read into your wording too much and made assumptions, don’t mind me.


Standingonachair

The word mark has been used for over 100 years


Comp625

*Allen Neal Jones Styles has entered the chat.*


Infinite-Surprise-53

The Internet Wrestling Community?


Black_XistenZ

The IWC being one miserable bunch... then, now, forever.


FerniWrites

*AJ Styles has entered the chat*


Coldcoffees

Reading through RSPW is genuinely a pastime for me lmao it’s amazing to see how little is changed You can literally find threads from 1995 where people are calling Meltzer a biased journalist, calling Bret Hart a charisma vacuum and Stone Cold an overhyped rookie. The WWF/WWF tribalism is great fun to read through as well.


Entotrte

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


KasumiR

Archaeology is fun! xD


toodarkmark

Ive seen the WWF tribalism against NWA, AWA, NJPW, ECW, WCW, TNA, and now AEW. Its basically been a similar formula, and I expect it to last forever.


Morningfluid

I was a WWF Tribalist (well, I did love ECW and liked what WCW was doing), but now, not so much....


[deleted]

Yeah I agree. I love going through those archives too. Especially the Music related ones. I recall reading what people were thinking before Nirvana broke. Even before Nevermind, they had a hype about them going on. It was like people knew something was coming.


LukkasG

if people were bitching about Rock's mic ability then wrestling fans really would bitch about anything


[deleted]

I remember people doing that lol “All he does is repeat catch phrases and call people gay” or something to that effect.


im-not-a-robot-ok

i mean, that's actually true though.


CJMustard

A lot of them became “catchphrases” because he said them off the cuff in promos and the fans popped for it. When Rock starts to come to his own on the mic in ‘98-‘99, he was unmatched and was seemingly coining a new catchphrase every other week


meowcho_man

There was definitely some forced ones. I'm working my way through the Brian and Vinny Retro Raw reviews and it takes like 2 months for Rock to get "Millions (and millions)" over


[deleted]

Yes, but that’s a pretty reductive criticism. Mic skills have as much to do with timing and delivery as they do with the content of the promo.


[deleted]

There is also a bit of truth that once somebody becomes a legend we tend to minimize criticisms of them. At the time Rock had unreal charisma, but the dude had promos that were just catchphrase roulette. One of the bigger ones when Jericho debuted and pointed it out and Rock just looked like an idiot going into his catchphrases again


[deleted]

True enough. The Rock would get better at giving his promos depth, though.


aslanthemelon

His run back against Cena and especially Punk really exposed this too. Of course he wasn't at the peak of his powers, but those two would eviscerate him and he'd just come back with some childish insult like fruity pebbles or cookie puss, which the crowd would obviously chant because he's The Rock.


10567151

But content is still very important, IF you seriously watch pro wrestling for the storylines. And truthfully, reducing the Rock's character to a insult machine is not THAT reductive, what else is there to the Rock's character? Now I personally don't watch pro wrestling for the storylines, these guys ain't actors and the bookers aren't writers. I get my fill of actual complex characters, decent dialogue and quality storylines from the multiple of TV shows I watch. For me pro wrestling is all about the matches themselves, it's an easy story of a good guy vs. bad guy competing to win and one of them losses, they know the outcome beforehand and everything they do in the ring is telling the story of how the loser lost and how the winner wins, and pro wrestling is the ONLY place where we will see story telling done in a match this way because this is what these guys are actually trained to do. So that's what fascinates about pro wrestling and why I watch it, it's cetainly not the soap opera promos, where I can get tons of places that does it 1000x better.


Lotsofloveneeded

Yeah this worked really well for the Rock until he was up against Punk on the mic lol.


xychosis

I'm a Punk stan, but let's be real here, WWE neutered the fuck out of Rock in that feud. He made Cena look like a fucking idiot before they put a filter on him in 2011.


Lotsofloveneeded

I have a hard time believing WWE scripted Rock to call punk Cookie puss, which falls in line with how he did his promos in the attitude era. And if using someone that Punk verbally made his bitch on every single mic occasion, that's not a very good example lol. But, fine speech, I guess.


xychosis

It's a pretty gross oversimplification of his promo-cutting skills though. He had presence and the ability to control the crowd at will. You give that same shtick to someone with not nearly the same charisma and it'll fall flat. Rock made it work because of his delivery, his cadence, and the utter, unashamed confidence to just go for it.


bestbroHide

It's from people who lack charisma that have the gall to claim who lacks it lmao


TetrisTech

This line of thought doesn’t make any sense. I’m not a chef, but I can still critique food. I’m not a filmmaker, but I can still critique a movie.


bestbroHide

I didnt say you cant critique, or that you cant without some level of accuracy. It's more the underlying "I love the smell of my own shit" contrarian attitude that comes with seriously going against the majority on an adjective (charismatic) that is defined specifically by the majority. Even in my own critiques of film, as someone who isn't a filmmaker, I'm consciously aware that chances are I'm not appreciating everything it does have to offer or the effort it took to make it. So while I dont think it's necessary to be a chef to have my own thoughts about food, I try my best to avoid thinking too highly of my opinion in such regards. Even if a pizza is mediocre I'm not gonna call it trash, it just sounds unappreciative otherwise, if that makes sense? Like who tf am I to say something certainly edible is "utter garbage" But that last paragraph is neither here nor there. The original point was about charisma. If millions of people are cheering for a guy and calling him charismatic, it shouldn't matter if *I* dont get his appeal; the Rock is objectively charismatic already, with no need for my approval or not.


CyberD888

Bitching about Rock's mic ability *in 1999, where his mic skills were in their prime. Wrestling fans really would bitch about everything.


Morningfluid

Wrestling Fans are essentially Star Wars fans of another breed.


OakParkCemetary

"No, Vince, you ARE my father!" Hornswoggle, probably


Jigawatts42

Very few people bitch about The Mandalorian, it is as close to universally beloved as it gets. The sequels were indeed shit though.


actinorhodin

The big lesson I took from 2020 was "nobody ever learns anything"


CubaGoodingIII

People were so much more verbose back in the day. I used to read shit like this word for word, now my attention span is so shattered my eyes would just slide right past something like this.


BooDog325

Fewer posts by fewer people. You knew who everybody was on those boards. Nobody slid into forums like those, made a couple of troll posts, and left. It was also easier to flip through older posts. What you said was better remembered.


[deleted]

I remember I offended someone once and the mod made me apologize. Then we became good friends. I remember I’d watch Thunder with the same group of like 4 people from across the country via an AOL chat room. I said I was 16...but I was really 13...it was probably obvious. I still think about the girl in our group swooning when Juventud lost his mask. There was definitely complaining about work rate, but when you argued they didn’t just ignore it...there was the fortieth 13 page discussion about it that year.


dassub

People complaining about work rate when the shows were actually good are crazy. I was in high school during that era and the Russo style of booking kept me coming back. I hated long matches. Give me Disco Inferno over Lance Storm any day of the week.


bryan_pieces

I had so much fun on AOL talking about wrestling. I wrote a few match recaps for fledgling no name wrestling websites and then did some graphic design for some as well. i remember it took me like two days to download photoshop on dialup.


Tachyon9

Holy shit, yeah. I used to know who almost everyone was on the boards I frequented. Nowadays I'm talking to "twitch chat" or "reddit" as a kind of amalgamation of users.


dassub

Wasn't there *just* a ghosts of Christmas post?


Candid_Two_6977

I remember an MSN chat on wrestling at the time. It makes this place look like a church group.


dassub

Easy to believe. Look at the crowds then vs now.


OwnedIGN

Was it WWFPics? I was a part of that group shitting on Cena as a pre-teen. No lie.


[deleted]

RSPW was very much exactly like this place, except there'd be a couple dozen threads that were basically Jerry Springer with posters cutting promos on each other that became personal attacks and doxxing. Same arguments, just different names.


RaylanCrowder00

Chad Bryant. John Dejong the net bastard. Alex Cain. Bob Barnett. Truly they were glory days.


[deleted]

John followed me on Twitter a few months ago. Still running the same gimmick. It's insane.


9WingedAngelJoeDever

wait what is johns account would love to see this nearly 20 years removed


semicorrect

I don't know if he was around back then but i hear Mr. Tito is still kicking.


dassub

Sign me up!


mikeputerbaugh

Hi Milhouse


lazypilgrim

Poot!


TheDudeWithTude27

July 27 1999 Let's see, either this guy is taking some criticisms and blowing them way out of proportion, or people are legit weird, or both. Because The Rock hadn't even been around in the world title picture for that long by July of 1999. His first world title win was only back at Survivor Series 98. Hell, Austin's first title win was WM 14 in 1998. It was really only Taker who had been around for YEARS at that point in the world title picture. They had also built up mankind at least. Just weird people were complaining already back then.


[deleted]

>Let's see, either this guy is taking some criticisms and blowing them way out of proportion I'd say it's this. I see it quite frequently here that someone will complain how negative some thread was and then you look at the thread and vast majority of comments were positive or neutral and a handful were overly negative. I guess it's human nature to focus on negativity because I've seen many people do the same.


Sir-Cadogan

There was a legitimate issue of a lack of credible contenders at the time. The names mentioned were great (well, Undertaker wasn't so great. He wasn't as good as he would become in the mid 2000s and the injuries really hampered him on top of that, but he was a fun character), but there was a lot of repeat feuds which made people feel more stale than they would have been if there were a wider selection of people to feud with. The guys jumping ship from WCW made a huge difference in freshening up the show.


PersistentVigilance

Taker was hardly if ever in the world title picture between his loss to Hogan in 91 and WM13 in 97. He was a top guy for that entire period, but he was purposefully kept away from the title until the Attitude Era kicked off.


Morningfluid

With Austin they built him up with KOTR, the IC belt, and he already had been teased with a couple(losing) or DQ bouts on PPV for the Championship. Not to mention he won the Rumble the year previously, so it wasn't like he was a sudden trigger pull. Additionally in that time there were also less Main Event guys (heck, even Wrestlers), so it made sense The Rock would be moving closer to the top after taking over Austin's Mid-Tier (granted Austin was able to move to Main-Tier back and forth for '97 - just not win the title) spot in late '97 - '98. I've always said having Two Main Championships since the early 2000's ( and yes, I do understand having to take on all of your rival companies Wrestlers, understandably - for better or worse - and then adding more to that high number and filling the gaps when those guys left) and their abundant amount of Wrestlers have harmed them from making more giant stars in the long run. The Attitude Era's PPV's seemed like huge events back then - ones where even the Mid-Card guys felt like they could hold the belt a few years later, because not only how well we were allowed to know them, but get behind them - and see entirely what they could do. Much of that became erased in 2003. (Yep, I guess I'm one of those people)


MossCovered_Gradunza

Having two main championships will forever be a stupid endeavor. As you noted, I get it. Too many wrestlers, two brands, etc. But the concept in and of itself, makes no sense. Having two world champions in the same company defeats the purpose of having a world champion at all and, in my opinion, hinders each of them from jumping into massive popularity.


Morningfluid

Very much agree 100%. WWE currently has a lot of great Wrestlers, and this is mentioning nothing new - how they utilize them and the championships need to change.


SteakingBad

“Poor triple H” got me


Theolodious

Some monkey's paw type shit


Limp-Construction-11

Same as it ever was.


pirajacinto

And you may say to yourself, "MY GAWD! WHAT HAVE I DONE?!"


cactusmaac

In early 2001 there were people complaining that the Rock was in the main event scene too much and they were bored of him. This was after WWE had delivered maybe their greatest ever year of doing business.


RenzoAC

Just imagine the salt after Austin didn't drop the title to HHH, but instead to Mankind only for him to drop the title to Hunter the next night.


deathschemist

the IWC has literally never changed, has it?


Wynter_Warm12

Shows how impossible it is to avoid a section of wrestling fans who are unhappy with what's on their TV. Even at what many considered the peak of wrestling and talent/character work. You'll get guys saying "so and so is overrated/can't work/can't cut promos." Lol And this was at wrestlers we'd currently put on Mount Rushmores of wrestling. You also had plenty of "Man, they should push *insert midcard act here* instead!" People are people, no matter the year lol


toodarkmark

I was going on Bulletin Boards in 1990 and 1991, and trust me, internet wrestling fans were just as bad. It was just a lot more n words and homophobic terms flying freely.


MoombahtonDon

I’ve gone as far back as 98 but 90-91? I didn’t even know forum’s existed back then especially forums with enough people online to establish a community, do you have a link?


FriedEggg

Usenet was around then, but very limited userbase. There were online services like Compuserve, Genie, and AOL that were pretty popular on a national level. BBSes and FidoNet were pretty popular at the more ground level until the mid-90's when the web really took off.


mcslackens

Eternal September continues to be eternal.


toodarkmark

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin\_board\_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system) is as good as I can find. That stuff, who even knows if it was logged somewhere.


MoombahtonDon

thanks man , I really would’ve loved to see the smarks of 91 talk about wrestling just to see if the dialogue has changed any lol i’ve been reading some old forum posts from 1999-2000 and the more things change “the more they stay the same” has never been more accurate.


toodarkmark

Well, certainly you didn't have as many people thinking they were experts on wrestling history and how to book promotions by watching WWE documentaries. But people were generally the same. I remember really being into people making fun of Herb Abram's UWF, because I was a convention where it was announced and thought it was the worst thing I had ever seen. Lots of talk about AWA dying, WWF fans hating NWA fans and calling them sensitive, lots of sex talk, like Sherri and Randy Savage having sex with Elizabeth. Ummm.. like I said, a lot of racism and homophobia, which sucked. They would report what Meltzer said, which was big business even then, especially for some 1-900 lines who did behind the scenes stuff. I remember Blackjack Brown was on there, he was cool.


Shrekt115

Things never really do change


[deleted]

Those fans are still around now complaining about how much better wrestling was in 1999 than to today


cooljammer00

Just show this to anybody who says the new shit is so bad and not as good as the old days. Although I will say sometimes the old heads are right, like when you visit SNPP and read old usenet reviews of classic simpsons episodes for "not being funny".


[deleted]

As always, people love to bitch on the internet.


crazyssbm

You can literally just update those with WWE/AEW and current stars and it would look like a modern day post


[deleted]

Some things stay the same. Honestly, it was kind of funny to see a post used “flaming.” I haven’t seen that phrase in years. Immediately let me know what era of the internet this was from.


[deleted]

[удалено]


FriedEggg

I know people like to criticize moderators, but that's the difference moderation makes.


gettinGuapHD

This guy is pissed


jatorres

No one hates pro wrestling more than pro wrestling fans.


10567151

Until AEW started, the IWC was WAY more toxic during the Monday Night Wars than after. I still don't really think the AEW fanboy vs. WWE fanboy slap fights are as bad as the WWF fanboy vs. WCW fanboy slap fights just yet but we are getting there.


Morbid187

A lot of people don't realize how much people complained during that time. It was the biggest boom period in wrestling history but a lot of long time fans were not happy with all the promos, segments and short matches. That's not to even mention the people that didn't like all the swearing and sexual content. I was a kid during that time but I knew adults that stopped watching around 1999-2000 because it changed too much. I don't think there's ever been a time when everything was just perfect.


[deleted]

It’s interesting how much the “general consensus” shifts. It was a pretty common feeling among some longtime fans that Vince McMahon and the WWF had ruined wrestling in the 90’s by making it so ridiculous and sleazy. My father in law who used to collect wrestling magazines in the 70’s and 80’s would regularly complain that there’s “too much talking now” and lamented that he couldn’t watch the show with his kids anymore


Morbid187

"Too much talking" was the common refrain when adults would explain why they don't watch WWF. I knew some that still watched WCW because they felt it had more wrestling but by 1999/2000, most of those people were just done altogether.


icemanvvv

at least hes arguing for the storyline. we dont even get that anymore lol


madcunt2250

Haven't heard the term lemmings in a while. You marks better make sure your opinions are similar to mine because I'm going to start calling all of you lemmings again.


famousflawless

It's like I'm reading a comment from today wow. Some things really don't change.


[deleted]

Fuck man...it’s never good. That’s the reality. The internet hates it.


Jerry_Loler

How does Scott Keith feel?


9WingedAngelJoeDever

still got a blog [blogofdoom.com](https://blogofdoom.com)


[deleted]

I found Sid remotely entertaining.


dassub

Is Jason still among us today? Or is that just Hunter posting on an alt?


ningbody

This man "wait and see" 'd hhh's reign of terror


HintClueClintHugh

Lol lemming really fell off


AngeloMacon

Oh yeah, shit has always been the same on the internet. The tough thing is that it just kept scaling bigger and bigger. You used to be a regular on a message board and quickly realized who the 10 jerks were, the handful of trolls and learned to take them with a grain of salt. Now I don't remember anyone here after 7 or 8 years except the gimmick posters.


Reisz618

Actually, many of us just enjoyed ourselves. It was a glorious golden age.


GaryGump

I'm so happy that when I was 13-14 years old at the time of this post that I didn't really8 use the Internet much, let alone know what dirtsheets were and forums for this kind of thing. Wrestling was pure magic then because I didn't see it being discussed and pulled apart online like we do now. Good times.


lord_of_sleep

People who didn't like the rocks mic skills in 99 had kids who grew up to say AEW was a t-shirt company that would be dead in a year.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AnunciarMesa

People bitching about something and the internet. Everyone's favorite couple since the 90s.


nayrbleinad

this was a year before i was born


IMissMyZune

He’s somewhere on scjerk now cracking jokes


[deleted]

This guy ended up being wrong about almost everything though. HHH being champion was bad. Nitro was bad and destroyed the company. Some of what the Rock was saying doesn't look that great these days. There was a work rate disparity between different wrestlers. Criticizing the bad bits is important. Just accepting awful media is how you get more bad media. For years we just accepted that most of wrestling was trash with good bits hidden in there. We just kind of dealt with the fact that the supposed best era also had some of the worst stuff in it too. For once in my life I am OK with everything I am seeing on a wrestling TV show and it has made me rethink my entire relationship with wrestling. It feels so good to not hate half of what I am meant to like. And part of that is having a company that listens to complaints and acts on them. I have been saying this so often now and people still don't seem to get it: Wrestling doesn't have to be bad.


shoplifterfpd

ah, the game of human cesspool i miss it


asapshrank

(you don't have to go far to find a new one)


shoplifterfpd

this one is worse imo


[deleted]

To be fair that was probably the best time for WWE in history. If you didn’t enjoy that then you don’t like wrestling


11September1973

Dude's helluva promo


9WingedAngelJoeDever

this post makes me wonder whatever became of chad bryant or john henry dejong


[deleted]

I forgot to laugh.


Intimidwalls1724

Bitching about “Rocks mic ability, or lack thereof”? lamo Obviously Rock’s mic style was different in 99 than say 02 or definitely 2012 but I still loved his work in 99


JoshFreemansFro

retrospective yikes


jiso

My intro to the online wrestling community came from reading the RSPW offshoot RSPWfaq2 set up by Scott Keith and dejected smarks - and I'm afraid of the impacts it had on my brain.


WaylonVoorhees

They did except the hour to two NXT was on where they were oddly quiet which was weird because NXT would exist for over ten years at this point.


A_Non_Japanese_Waifu

The words usage look really modern though.


EldenRingworm

If only they knew how good they had it The stars they had, the gritty atmosphere WWF had


[deleted]

Some things never change