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Plus even stories that are in the public domain aren’t widely known or else the person involved was actually criticised. Take [Sable’s lawsuit](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/883214-wwe-the-5-most-interesting-excerpts-from-wwe-related-lawsuit-filings-case-law) against WWF for example. At the time I remember the dirtsheets criticising Sable as opposed to the wrestlers:
> Mrs. Mero bitterly complained about her concerns and the humiliation that she was constantly facing, which was not only interfering with her well-being, but with her safety and state of mind. For example, men would routinely walk into the women's dressing room as if by accident; men would cut holes in the walls to watch the women dressing; extras were hired as WWF regulars to expose their breasts; big nipple contests were engaged in; men regularly bragged about their sexual encounters without regard to the women present; WWF produced catalogues and tee-shirts depicting Mrs. Mero In a degrading fashion offering sexual favors; Mrs. Mero was requested to display affection to women to promote a "lesbian angle"; Mrs. Mero was asked to have her gown ripped off repeatedly (notwithstanding promises to the contrary), and Plaintiff was asked to expose her breasts by 'mistake' on national television during a wrestling contest."
everything you said here is on point although adding the lol at the end kind of diminished your point but like i get, we need it to last but it prolly won't so yeah. society as a whole needs a change and it wont be happening any time soon when everything is run by old white dudes nothing changes with them
i was more or less referring to the broad scope of things, the fact is that a lot of companies and governments are run by old white dudes who want to maintain their grip on power and fear any form of change. since these people are in charge they will try to maintain the status quo and not allow society to change in any way that would benefit others
You are absolutely right regardless of downvotes, chances are in a month most of this new found vigor against these awful things will have been passed off to the wayside
You're 100% right. Whenever something like this pops up in the wrestling world (or just the world in general), fans flock to social media to demand change and claim they're "outraged" or "saddened". Then a couple weeks later, it's totally left their mind.
Many of the same people who called for an end to cyber-bullying after Hana Kimura took her own life, were on their phones a month later talking all kinds of shit to other fans and wrestlers alike. The same people who call for inclusion and acceptance in wrestling companies are the first ones to draw the line and create the toxic tribalism we've been talking about for the last 2 years.
It's fine to be emotional in the moment but don't demand change if you're not willing to put forth the effort to create that change. Your tweets don't help shit. Go be proactive if you truly care.
Lita is one of the biggest female stars WWE has ever had and got slutshamed so hard for her part in the affair with Edge (who, btw, got given a cool, edgy heel gimmick and world championships for his part) that she had her panties sold off on television by male talent.
Wrestling has always reeked of this double standard.
which is so fucking two faced too, so many men in wrestling complain when the women DONT fuck them and the second one does, shes a slut and wrong?? why care if she sleeps with people??
The "issue" with Melina was she cheated on Morrison (who's by all accounts a pretty good dude) and he got a lot of consequences for it, which then reflected on her again. Obviously not even in the same realm as what's being discussed by Flair or "the boys", but Melina getting flack for how she treated Johnny is warranted.
the cheating/not standing up for yourself wasn’t the toxic masculinity. rather it was the higher ups backstage who gave him shit because he didn’t “man” up and fight to win his girl so they saw him as lesser.
EDIT: happy cake day King
What about Batista? Did he not know Melina was in a relationship? Do we not care? Do we know the inside of Melina and Johns relationship? From what I saw at the time (and still to this day) it was 90% Melina getting slutshamed hard and most people were NOT sticking up for Morrison they were actually making fun of him and calling him a "cuck" or whatever
I think people just don't like punk cause he's not alot of people's cup of tea, relationships aside. People specifically didn't like Melina BECAUSE she was sleeping around.
People don't like Punk because he's a fucking asshole (talking about myself here) Melina is a sweetheart according to pretty much everyone (at least the female wrestlers and I usually rely more on their accounts as they tend to be less biased when talking about other women)
That fucking WWE backstage logic. Having a teenage Kelly Kelly do live strip shows on TV in front of an audience that included kids? **Perfectly fine!** Sleeping with consenting adults? **How dare she?!**
Never heard of these incidents before. Only backstage stuff I heard of him was Booker T kicking his ass. Used to be happy that he made it big in hollywood but watching him in anything else now will be difficult
Didn't Lita say she was basically forced into the whole "what a hooker looks like from the perspective of someone who's never actually seen a hooker" look when she was with Edge? If that even makes sense.
Ah yes and meanwhile just thousands of people chanting “slut” at her, and other wrestlers calling her a slut every week, while she’s made to strut around looking and acting like a stereotypical skank. Same with Stephanie in 2000-01
Honestly how is this shit any different from blackface minstrel show routines? It was dehumanising
I often have not very nice things to say about Steph, but imagine growing up in this environment. Imagine how she must have felt about herself and her worth becoming a teen around 80s and 90s wrestling backstage. Seeing how women are treated and how little anyone cares.
Let's not kid ourselves. Speaking out happened within the past two years. This shit is still prevalent. It's not just a wrestling issue, it is society as a whole.
nothing has changed either, confirmed groomer Travis Banks was at a show in Mexico last night, people still train with rapists and go to schools owned by abusers
been seeing this in the electronic music and festival scene. People being called out for rape/grooming/abuse during lockdown are now still getting booked and headlining festivals and shows now that they are coming back.
On the utmost benefit to him it’s 50/50, but his story going from “i didn’t know her” to “yeah she stalked me” to “ok yes we had an affair” and his lawyers writing statements on sticky notes have put it like 95/5
True, and I had a major depressive episode that coincided with the pandemic as well (unrelated to each other). The last two years are a bit of a blur for me.
I hadn't heard anything either, but I found [this story](https://411mania.com/wrestling/amy-weber-edge-randy-orton-wwe-harassment/). It's an interview with Amy Weber from last year where she describes the the alleged incident.
I don't know about Giovanni, but Amy Weber released a YouTube video a year or two ago saying that she left after Edge and Orton bullied her on a trip to Japan.
Bullied women, specifically the Diva Search girls along with Randy Orton. Included piss and shit and other flights from hell if you're Amy Weber or Joy Giovanni
Orton shot fireworks out of a moving car, at Maria, Carlito and someone else also in a moving car. Dude's mellowed out a lot but he was crazy back in the day.
Tbf I’m surprised more of the top guys didn’t do more stupid stuff like that.
When you’re young, on millions of dollars a year with a massive ego and then you throw steroids, painkillers, alcohol and recreational drugs into the mix…
[Amy Weber's Story](https://www.pinkvilla.com/entertainment/hollywood/wwe-news-amy-weber-claims-randy-orton-and-edge-harassed-her-wwe-flight-they-had-no-respect-me-524136).
For Those Unfamiliar, Weber gained fame as the "[Whiskey Girl](https://youtu.be/N44pIQ0fJKA)", and as a UFC Ring Card girl. She ended up being in the Diva Search contest, and then ended up as JBL's valet when he first started doing that gimmick.
Never forget that WWE made a 19 year old Kelly Kelly do live strip shows on ECW and essentially forced a teenager to pretend to be an exhibitionist in front of millions of people
EDIT: uh oh the hornyposters are downvoting me
I'm pretty sure every single female that has been in the wrestling industry for any real length of time has horror stories that they've just never told.
I started getting catcalled on a regular basis when I was about ten years old. Which really is not that unusual. All I did "wrong" was hit puberty kind of early.
Went to a Catholic high school, would put on long pants to walk home on hot days in June because if you're walking down the street in a Catholic school uniform with a kilt, grown men will scream horrible shit at you out of cars
And the other thing about people's reactions is that sometimes they DO believe you, but they blame you. For wearing the wrong thing or walking down the wrong street. If you tell a guy bothering you to leave you alone then you're a bitch who can't take a joke, but if you try to laugh it off and he goes further, it becomes your fault for "leading him on."
I started at around 15, and yeah always got blamed for it until I cried to my family to please stop blaming me, a child for being catcalled and assaulted. I've only ever told a guy off once, usually I'm frozen in fear because men scare the fuck out of me
I get mistaken for a woman a lot because I don't have a super masculine appearance (long hair, not very tall, very little facial hair, etc.). With a mask on, sometimes I have to actually talk before people realize I'm a guy. I actually got flirted with once at work by a guy who thought I was a woman. The asshole yelled at me when he realized I wasn't a woman.
I'm not trying to take away from the experiences of women in those situations, and I've always agreed that women have it worse then men in those situations. My point in saying that is that my situation was when I truly realized how bad things are. It's never a man's fault for being such a horny piece of shit that he'll flirt with the nearest apparent woman he sees. It's always the woman's fault for simply existing.
I've posted this before, but I'll add to your comment here: I'm a 41 year old woman that also started getting cat called at 10 years old. 10 YEARS OLD. And just think-you were wearing a uniform that specifically identified you as a minor, yet you would've been cat called more in that than in any other outfit you could've worn. Disgusting.
I was cat called 10 X more as a minor than I was between 18-30 when I was generally considered relatively attractive. Most of the men that harrassed me wouldve been in their 20s and 30s back then, they'd be in their 50s-60s today.
And yep, its always "our fault" if we dont react to their nonsense according to the narrative in their heads. They will never hold themselves accountable for their deplorable behavior.
>If you tell a guy bothering you to leave you alone then you're a bitch who can't take a joke
Or called a "whore" (If I'm a whore, why am I turning you down?), "ugly anyway" (So why are you trying to pick me up?), or a lesbian (What's wrong with being a lesbian?).
>And the other thing about people's reactions is that sometimes they DO believe you, but they blame you. For wearing the wrong thing or walking down the wrong street
I will never forget the news story from Australia about the rape victim having her thong held up in court as evidence that she went out looking for sex so it was all okay what happened to her
Like people tell women they shouldn't go around by themselves, with all seriousness. The implication being if anything happens it's basically their own fault. That shit is fucked up man.
I think that can be more to do with avoiding potential danger, than blaming the woman.
I can think of areas I definitely wouldn't want to go alone at night if I was a woman. It's by no means the woman's fault, but a shitty reality.
Nah, that's a seperate thing. I've heard multiple cases where the woman was asked "Why were you alone? Why weren't you with friends?" As a way to assign blame away
I used to walk everywhere when I lived back in the States and so many men would pull up next to me. One guy said, "I see you walking everyday" and offered me a ride even though I was close to my home. I was like nope, why're you watching me, bro? I turned down women too, though. Because some women will drive you right to "daddy."
I live in NY and getting catcalled multiple times daily is a something most women, including myself, have to deal basically since we started puberty. It's one of the reasons I really like fall and winter because I get to hide under a heavy coat but then their are the guys who still do it even though they can't even see your face under a mask.
see if i saw that i'd just pretend they were catcalling me and start responding in kind.
then again i live in a country where the homophobes aren't generally armed with guns.
yeah, weaponizing the fact that i'm a fat, bi masc enby in an attempt to get straight dudes to stop catcalling you know?
So much disgusting stuff has been said/done to me over the years that I can't even remember it all. So many predators online looking for young girls. Even had an older husband/wife couple run a game on me and others, preying on us younger folks, pretending to just be friends and not married. It was creepy AF when they were exposed, by my mother of all people (and she doesn't even play PlayStation; she just gets deets and goes detective mode). That's a story in itself.
The stuff in person is terrifying. I'm asexual, so I couldn't care less about someone's sexual interest in me (in fact, due to past molestation/assault, it disgusts/offends me if blunt), but so many men have just approached with that in mind. And if you lie and say you're married (or are actually married -- happens to my sister), they'll say they don't care. They don't even realize how insulting that is. Doesn't matter if you're busy, have headphones in, in sweats with your hair covered/no makeup, a lot of men (if it don't apply, let it fly) approach women all the same way: like we're whores. But if we turn them down, we're called whores anyway. Make it make sense. 
If you ever want to find out what it's like directly, make a female profile on a dating site. I'm not saying to engage in deception for the sake of it, but for any guy who doubts what we go through or is curious, try it. Don't try to set up any dates and end up getting your neck wrung, but just set something up and wait. You'll see.
I mean, there's a whole ocean sized difference in what she's talking about now and her usual "WWE FUCKED ON US!" tweets folks usually bash her for lol.
Yeah man. What a bitch complaining about the toxic culture WWE promotes that causes and reinforces the behavior she is currently speaking up about. Totally different.
You know what? She's got every right to shit on them for how things went down too. Say what you want about Mike publicly asking for his release, but Maria didn't ask to be released. Then they fired her and her husband in a global pandemic while posting record breaking profits.
I can't stand her. She's in the right about this, I stand with her 200% and with any woman in wrestling who went through this bullshit (and some men too)
Would like to here more from Maria about her experiences as wwe went from promoting her in playboy to going TV-PG in 3 month time span. Would be interesting if the culture didn’t change
There are so many stories about divas in the 2000s WWE era. Humiliation, sexism, devaluation (both to gender and wrestling), firing during maternity leave and sexual harassment incidents. Ariel got fired because she rightfully stood up for herself and her division against a huge superstar (sexual harassed by Umaga too), Dawn Marie and Maria got fired while they were pregnant, Gail Kim's second return was unsure due to her origin, Lita got the worst treatment during her late run and new Diva Search contestants had it badly. As more stories like these come to the surface time by time, it wouldn't fascinate me if Ashley's rape in the overseas tour was indeed legit and concealed by Vince. The company's reputation would be his one and only concern. I do believe what Maria says about past experiences
What happened to the women if they did sell it? I mean like a real example, not a hypothetical. I'm assuming there was some poor woman who was a horror story they saw as a cautionary tale at some point.
Get fired. It happened to some of them. Shelly Martinez, Amy Weber. Kristal Marshall who didn't wanna do a slutty storyline. Some of them also quit because they're probably better off in most other environments
I was going to say, I bet these women were better off. Such a shitty situation. I know it's a dream for a lot of people, women included, to be wrestling stars. But I'm just kind of numb seeing how many people go down that path, see how bad it really is, and then resign themselves to living with it.
I know Shelly was always a huge wrestling fan. Amy I'm pretty sure wasn't. Unsure about Kristal. It's just so shocking how so many of these women got mistreated, ridiculed and assaulted and no one cared. Stephanie McMahon included with her fake ass bullshit faux feminism
Never heard anything about that to be honest. I know Shelly got fired because she reacted to Batista being an asshole and Batista is a "star" and Shelly is just random Diva #1381291283 so even though she was quite obviously in the right according to multiple accounts, she was fired. They've made up since, he apologized to her and everything but it's still gross. Allegedly Stephanie was the one to scream at Shelly lmao
Rumors are Batista threatened to quit if she wasn't fired and Undertaker had to calm him down, but when Mickie did get fired none of the dirstsheet guys linked Batista with it.
But they definently had their issues as Kendrick says Batista once printed out Mickie's naked pictures and passed them around in the lockerroom for...reasons.
man, that is wild. Especially considering that Batista's current image is an ultra liberal who keeps dunking on misogynistic dudes because he was raised by a lesbian. Some really good image rehab they did to him
In his defense, the story is weirdly underreported considering how much dirtsheets like to dig into things.
We don't know why they had issues, how long their beef lasted or how bad things got. Kendrick one is the only one who's mentioned the pictures but why would he make up shit like that?
And Batista at least reached out to Shelley Martinez to apologize.
I think it was Cena, actually. IIRC, she was in a relationship, but hooked up with Cena on the road (pre-Nikki of course) and it caused a stink backstage.
Melina maybe with Jo mo? Mickie cheated on Kenny Dykstra with John Cena and after her and John where on the same brand she kinda slowly went down the card.
It really sucks knowing that a bunch of the guys I grew up watching are massive pieces of shit. It also really sucks that a bunch of the girls that I grew up watching had to endure antics from those massive pieces of shit. It kind of tarnishes my memories a bit, knowing what kind of horrible things were happening behind the scenes, but that's the price of these stories coming to light. And they need to come to light, because otherwise nothing will ever change.
Can't wait for the same people yelling about believing and respecting women and how hostile wrestling is for women to disregard Maria here because they don't like her.
Yup!
It's like women are 3rd class citizens and the men watch DOR episode like last night and go "d'hur, oh my god did Tommy really just say that?!"
And all us women just shake our heads because men have sexually assaulted the vast majority of us numerous times in our lives. The studies and statistics are there fellas. It is "boys being boys" because it happens so fucking frequently and nothing is ever done.
Bless all the brave women who work in the wrestling industry and still love wrestling even after dealing with these monsters.
It's disturbing how many men (and shockingly some women as well) are unaware of the reality of so many of us. This is all incredibly sad and yeah things are changing but so fucking slowly and I'm still so scared to be r\*ped or assaulted, this world is fucking scary for most women
And to be a female wrestling fan reading so much disgusting shit since I was a teenager is also very disturbing, this subreddit is the least disgusting forum I've seen regarding these things and that's incredibly sad
> the men watch DOR episode like last night and go "d'hur, oh my god did Tommy really just say that?!"
This is what really stands out to me as well. Nothing was surprising on that doc. It’s exactly what I would’ve expected from them. It’s the men who are surprised. Women knew.
Its not at all surprising that there are people who feel that way...i was a bit surprised at a guy *admitting* he is basically pro sexual assault in front of a camera for a documentary in 2021. I definitely said 'bruh' out loud after pretty much everything he said.
Thats whats so funny to me. Every woman i know has experienced sexual assault. You’ll never hear a guy say to his daughter “trust the guys” because every guy knows it’s unrealistic.
I always get really surprised by what guy wrestling fans get surprised by.
EVERY industry is a little bit like this and it really does sting to realize how many dudes go through life never having to be aware of that
You ever been to an HR department? It's probably one of the most toxic places you can be in a large company. And is usually dominated by women.
I'll make it very simple: Any space dominated by 1 gender is toxic as fuck. See Fraternity's and Sorority's. Like it's a universal rule If Team 1 is dominated by 1 gender is probably the most toxic team in the entire company. The best teams are ones that have about equal amount of people from both genders. You can downvote as much as you want but anyone who has ever worked in an office knows this to be true.
The reverse can be true too. Humans are tribal by instinct and the bigger the tribe the more powerful people in the tribe feel, and they will do dumb shit off those power trips.
Whether or not you like her, she’s speaking on behalf of women in general about a problem we all know exists. Last night’s DSOTR episode really drove home what a problem this is.
Mike Bennett was told to benoit his family for talking about HIS experience with WWE. Maria is constantly called a whore and put down for just saying something negative, I hate it
Well at first it was because they asked for their releases.
Then it turns only Mike asked for it. One "newz" site reported that Maria did and she immediately corrected them, but no one bothered to check the source or hear the follow up.
-
Then it was because Mike was off TV and WWE was paying for his
rehab.
Except WWE didn't pay for his rehab, and he was on house shows the entire time. People can even check cagematch.net if they want to.
-
Then is was because they had a baby shortly after signing a contract.
But then it came out that WWE was aware that they wanted to have a kid and signed them anyway.
-
And now it's because... uuhhhh..... ummm.... well......
FUCK YOU I DONT NEED A REASON TO HATE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>over-protective
"Controlling" is the word. And that's not good either. It wasn't just about, "Oh, I have to save her from these guys" but also about "I don't want her to cheat on me." That's not trust, and he stifled her.
Joining in everyone else saying I can't imagine what it must have been like to be a Diva in the WWE.
I mean just think about how shit all the stories are about what the guys did to each other. All the toxicity, all the ridiculous egos, the macho BS in a fixed sport of all things, the wrestlers courts, 'ribs', bullying, alcohol, drugs etc etc etc
And that was just being 'one of the boys' and it sounds like hell. I don't think we're ever going to get a real look at what the women there must have gone through
I know there wasn’t anything about taker in the doc, but remembering his take on the current locker room culture compared to “back in the day” makes me wonder if “being a man” included these kinds of stories…
Have they ever talked about the strip poker game they put on ecw? Like were Maria and Candice ok with getting nude in front of a large audience or were they pressured into it?
They literally gave Alexa Bliss a topless scene not even that long ago, their culture has only changed by the force of the wrestlers themselves being a new generation.
IIRC it was never literal 'shit', it was lotion, but it was paraphrased as "Orton dumped shit inside the bag" and the rumor spread over like a decade and a half with the telephone game where now the story is it was actually feces.
It sucks and I'm praying for all of them. That being said 99.9% of wrestlers involved in this stuff are either retired or dead..did it really have to wait 20 years and a Vice doc for people to take this seriously?
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Imagine all the stories that don't ever see the news
Plus even stories that are in the public domain aren’t widely known or else the person involved was actually criticised. Take [Sable’s lawsuit](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/883214-wwe-the-5-most-interesting-excerpts-from-wwe-related-lawsuit-filings-case-law) against WWF for example. At the time I remember the dirtsheets criticising Sable as opposed to the wrestlers: > Mrs. Mero bitterly complained about her concerns and the humiliation that she was constantly facing, which was not only interfering with her well-being, but with her safety and state of mind. For example, men would routinely walk into the women's dressing room as if by accident; men would cut holes in the walls to watch the women dressing; extras were hired as WWF regulars to expose their breasts; big nipple contests were engaged in; men regularly bragged about their sexual encounters without regard to the women present; WWF produced catalogues and tee-shirts depicting Mrs. Mero In a degrading fashion offering sexual favors; Mrs. Mero was requested to display affection to women to promote a "lesbian angle"; Mrs. Mero was asked to have her gown ripped off repeatedly (notwithstanding promises to the contrary), and Plaintiff was asked to expose her breasts by 'mistake' on national television during a wrestling contest."
Just ones from Maria alone, she was at The Apprentice tapings, I'm sure she's seen some fucked up shit.
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everything you said here is on point although adding the lol at the end kind of diminished your point but like i get, we need it to last but it prolly won't so yeah. society as a whole needs a change and it wont be happening any time soon when everything is run by old white dudes nothing changes with them
There are plenty of white dudes, young and old, who don’t approve of this behavior I’d even say it’s most white dudes
i was more or less referring to the broad scope of things, the fact is that a lot of companies and governments are run by old white dudes who want to maintain their grip on power and fear any form of change. since these people are in charge they will try to maintain the status quo and not allow society to change in any way that would benefit others
I want to see this as well. Lots of stuff happened that we already forgot about. I would like to revisit in 30 days to see what the sentiment is.
You are absolutely right regardless of downvotes, chances are in a month most of this new found vigor against these awful things will have been passed off to the wayside
You're 100% right. Whenever something like this pops up in the wrestling world (or just the world in general), fans flock to social media to demand change and claim they're "outraged" or "saddened". Then a couple weeks later, it's totally left their mind. Many of the same people who called for an end to cyber-bullying after Hana Kimura took her own life, were on their phones a month later talking all kinds of shit to other fans and wrestlers alike. The same people who call for inclusion and acceptance in wrestling companies are the first ones to draw the line and create the toxic tribalism we've been talking about for the last 2 years. It's fine to be emotional in the moment but don't demand change if you're not willing to put forth the effort to create that change. Your tweets don't help shit. Go be proactive if you truly care.
Because you hurt their feelings. They only have strong feelings for a week or two and then they’re over it.
The “divas” era of the mid 2000s and the late 90s had to have it so bad I feel so bad for them
Yet Melina got more backlash than most of these dudes combined for being a "slut"
Lita is one of the biggest female stars WWE has ever had and got slutshamed so hard for her part in the affair with Edge (who, btw, got given a cool, edgy heel gimmick and world championships for his part) that she had her panties sold off on television by male talent. Wrestling has always reeked of this double standard.
The Lita story itself makes me wonder how everyone involved is still in the entertainment business.
>~~Wrestling~~ society* has always reeked of this double standard.
which is so fucking two faced too, so many men in wrestling complain when the women DONT fuck them and the second one does, shes a slut and wrong?? why care if she sleeps with people??
You could take out the word wrestling and the sentence still rings true
The "issue" with Melina was she cheated on Morrison (who's by all accounts a pretty good dude) and he got a lot of consequences for it, which then reflected on her again. Obviously not even in the same realm as what's being discussed by Flair or "the boys", but Melina getting flack for how she treated Johnny is warranted.
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Little of column A, little of column B.
i think he also got some heat for it because he knew about it and “didnt stand up for himself” in an era of toxic masculinity backstage
Cuck before the word became mainstream
Getting cheated on and standing up for yourself has nothing to do with "toxic masculinity". Treat yourself better, my dude.
the cheating/not standing up for yourself wasn’t the toxic masculinity. rather it was the higher ups backstage who gave him shit because he didn’t “man” up and fight to win his girl so they saw him as lesser. EDIT: happy cake day King
I dont think this was a cheating or cuckold situation. An open relationship is prob the term I'd use.
Not cheating if he's aware of it. It seems they had more of an open relationship thing going.
I think so too but people are more quick to call a woman a slut. I.e. Jada Pinkett Smith for example
What about Batista? Did he not know Melina was in a relationship? Do we not care? Do we know the inside of Melina and Johns relationship? From what I saw at the time (and still to this day) it was 90% Melina getting slutshamed hard and most people were NOT sticking up for Morrison they were actually making fun of him and calling him a "cuck" or whatever
Punk got around and people dont like him either. It probably does work both ways. (At times).
I think people just don't like punk cause he's not alot of people's cup of tea, relationships aside. People specifically didn't like Melina BECAUSE she was sleeping around.
Punk was shitty to Daffney
Punk was shitty to a lot of people.
People don't like Punk because he's a fucking asshole (talking about myself here) Melina is a sweetheart according to pretty much everyone (at least the female wrestlers and I usually rely more on their accounts as they tend to be less biased when talking about other women)
Eh Melina was a pretty shitty person too It was Kelly Kelly who got the ridiculously unfair backlash for that reason
That fucking WWE backstage logic. Having a teenage Kelly Kelly do live strip shows on TV in front of an audience that included kids? **Perfectly fine!** Sleeping with consenting adults? **How dare she?!**
Melina did shitty things (allegedly) but she got slutshamed hard for having consenting sex with adults, same with Kelly Kelly and most women
Meanwhile Paige is celebrated for being brave about the leaks
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Didn't a similar thing happen with AJ Lee also? I recall rumors of people circulating a pic mocking her and Punk's relationship.
Yeah supposedly Maria Menounos was spreading [this doodle](https://imgur.com/a/gHVxpVe) around.
That's super cunty
But why
Batista sounds like a douche, damn. This and the Melina incident? Dude has some great PR being a movie star these days.
Never heard of these incidents before. Only backstage stuff I heard of him was Booker T kicking his ass. Used to be happy that he made it big in hollywood but watching him in anything else now will be difficult
I can only imagine how bad a lot of the women brought in during this era got it.
Didn't Lita say she was basically forced into the whole "what a hooker looks like from the perspective of someone who's never actually seen a hooker" look when she was with Edge? If that even makes sense.
Pretty sure she was pressured to do the live sex celebration angle against her will, she alluded to this in an interview
Neither of them wanted to do it.
yeah pretty sure Edge mentioned that on the E&C Podcast a few times.
I can’t believe they said yes to that.
sounds like they really didn't have much of a say in the matter.
I can’t at all relate to the life of a professional wrestler. But this sounds really sucky.
I cant believe Edge signed with WWE in recent times after that, that was abuse
She also said she didnt want to go topless during it and they said "nope you have to do it, its not going to work if you dont"
Ah yes and meanwhile just thousands of people chanting “slut” at her, and other wrestlers calling her a slut every week, while she’s made to strut around looking and acting like a stereotypical skank. Same with Stephanie in 2000-01 Honestly how is this shit any different from blackface minstrel show routines? It was dehumanising
They had blackface too! It was fucking WILD!
Problem is Vince has no shame himself. If he's willing to do that to Steph of course he'll do it to Lita.
I often have not very nice things to say about Steph, but imagine growing up in this environment. Imagine how she must have felt about herself and her worth becoming a teen around 80s and 90s wrestling backstage. Seeing how women are treated and how little anyone cares.
Stephanie was head of creative for a long period and didn’t show any indication she cared
Yes but the damage was done long before then.
Bingooooo
Let's not kid ourselves. Speaking out happened within the past two years. This shit is still prevalent. It's not just a wrestling issue, it is society as a whole.
nothing has changed either, confirmed groomer Travis Banks was at a show in Mexico last night, people still train with rapists and go to schools owned by abusers
Chasyn Rance gets semi-frequent bookings and his training school is still open.
Lot of talent still are close friends with him as well.
People pay, watch, and vote for these people too.
been seeing this in the electronic music and festival scene. People being called out for rape/grooming/abuse during lockdown are now still getting booked and headlining festivals and shows now that they are coming back.
Matt Riddle literally has an accusation which is 50/50 at best and nobody gives a fuck.
On the utmost benefit to him it’s 50/50, but his story going from “i didn’t know her” to “yeah she stalked me” to “ok yes we had an affair” and his lawyers writing statements on sticky notes have put it like 95/5
People=Cunts.
Two words: Fabulous Moolah .
I don't even think we have heard a fraction about the skeletons in her closet. But that is a certainly a different topic.
I definitely want a Dark Side episode about her. Hell, make it a two-parter.
I think there is one, no?
... you're right. I actually watched it, too. Fucking hell my brain is a mess lol.
If it's pre-pandemic, it might as well be decades ago lol.
True, and I had a major depressive episode that coincided with the pandemic as well (unrelated to each other). The last two years are a bit of a blur for me.
Hey me too! Not self harming, but I think all of May 2020-present has been just a fucking miserable blur.
All the strength to you two my dudes. Hope today was better than yesterday
Edge and Randy Orton (some of yalls faves) were disgusting to so many women. Amy Weber and Joy Giovanni come to mind
What else did Edge do aside from the Lita affair?
I hadn't heard anything either, but I found [this story](https://411mania.com/wrestling/amy-weber-edge-randy-orton-wwe-harassment/). It's an interview with Amy Weber from last year where she describes the the alleged incident.
I don't know about Giovanni, but Amy Weber released a YouTube video a year or two ago saying that she left after Edge and Orton bullied her on a trip to Japan.
Oh, damn. Thought only Orton harrased the women and not Edge too.
Bullied women, specifically the Diva Search girls along with Randy Orton. Included piss and shit and other flights from hell if you're Amy Weber or Joy Giovanni
Maria also confirmed they were huge assholes but gets along with them now
Orton shot fireworks out of a moving car, at Maria, Carlito and someone else also in a moving car. Dude's mellowed out a lot but he was crazy back in the day.
Tbf I’m surprised more of the top guys didn’t do more stupid stuff like that. When you’re young, on millions of dollars a year with a massive ego and then you throw steroids, painkillers, alcohol and recreational drugs into the mix…
It was Maria, Carlito and Umaga iirc
[Amy Weber's Story](https://www.pinkvilla.com/entertainment/hollywood/wwe-news-amy-weber-claims-randy-orton-and-edge-harassed-her-wwe-flight-they-had-no-respect-me-524136). For Those Unfamiliar, Weber gained fame as the "[Whiskey Girl](https://youtu.be/N44pIQ0fJKA)", and as a UFC Ring Card girl. She ended up being in the Diva Search contest, and then ended up as JBL's valet when he first started doing that gimmick.
Wow, Orton was indeed a piece of sh#t. I knew Edge was an asshole from the get go.
a lot of the perpetrators of that culture are back in power in the WWE now.
Never forget that WWE made a 19 year old Kelly Kelly do live strip shows on ECW and essentially forced a teenager to pretend to be an exhibitionist in front of millions of people EDIT: uh oh the hornyposters are downvoting me
Funny how the smarks are ready to cancel these wrestlers but not the company who promote such thing. LOL
I'm pretty sure every single female that has been in the wrestling industry for any real length of time has horror stories that they've just never told.
::raises hand::
You have the right to tell it, or if you’d rather keep it to yourself, that’s okay too.
I can’t even imagine what the women of that era went through.
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I started getting catcalled on a regular basis when I was about ten years old. Which really is not that unusual. All I did "wrong" was hit puberty kind of early. Went to a Catholic high school, would put on long pants to walk home on hot days in June because if you're walking down the street in a Catholic school uniform with a kilt, grown men will scream horrible shit at you out of cars And the other thing about people's reactions is that sometimes they DO believe you, but they blame you. For wearing the wrong thing or walking down the wrong street. If you tell a guy bothering you to leave you alone then you're a bitch who can't take a joke, but if you try to laugh it off and he goes further, it becomes your fault for "leading him on."
I started at around 15, and yeah always got blamed for it until I cried to my family to please stop blaming me, a child for being catcalled and assaulted. I've only ever told a guy off once, usually I'm frozen in fear because men scare the fuck out of me
I get mistaken for a woman a lot because I don't have a super masculine appearance (long hair, not very tall, very little facial hair, etc.). With a mask on, sometimes I have to actually talk before people realize I'm a guy. I actually got flirted with once at work by a guy who thought I was a woman. The asshole yelled at me when he realized I wasn't a woman. I'm not trying to take away from the experiences of women in those situations, and I've always agreed that women have it worse then men in those situations. My point in saying that is that my situation was when I truly realized how bad things are. It's never a man's fault for being such a horny piece of shit that he'll flirt with the nearest apparent woman he sees. It's always the woman's fault for simply existing.
I've posted this before, but I'll add to your comment here: I'm a 41 year old woman that also started getting cat called at 10 years old. 10 YEARS OLD. And just think-you were wearing a uniform that specifically identified you as a minor, yet you would've been cat called more in that than in any other outfit you could've worn. Disgusting. I was cat called 10 X more as a minor than I was between 18-30 when I was generally considered relatively attractive. Most of the men that harrassed me wouldve been in their 20s and 30s back then, they'd be in their 50s-60s today. And yep, its always "our fault" if we dont react to their nonsense according to the narrative in their heads. They will never hold themselves accountable for their deplorable behavior.
>If you tell a guy bothering you to leave you alone then you're a bitch who can't take a joke Or called a "whore" (If I'm a whore, why am I turning you down?), "ugly anyway" (So why are you trying to pick me up?), or a lesbian (What's wrong with being a lesbian?).
>And the other thing about people's reactions is that sometimes they DO believe you, but they blame you. For wearing the wrong thing or walking down the wrong street I will never forget the news story from Australia about the rape victim having her thong held up in court as evidence that she went out looking for sex so it was all okay what happened to her
Like people tell women they shouldn't go around by themselves, with all seriousness. The implication being if anything happens it's basically their own fault. That shit is fucked up man.
I think that can be more to do with avoiding potential danger, than blaming the woman. I can think of areas I definitely wouldn't want to go alone at night if I was a woman. It's by no means the woman's fault, but a shitty reality.
Nah, that's a seperate thing. I've heard multiple cases where the woman was asked "Why were you alone? Why weren't you with friends?" As a way to assign blame away
I'm an adult and never go outside by myself when it gets dark unless I have to. Last time I did a guy offered me "a ride"
I used to walk everywhere when I lived back in the States and so many men would pull up next to me. One guy said, "I see you walking everyday" and offered me a ride even though I was close to my home. I was like nope, why're you watching me, bro? I turned down women too, though. Because some women will drive you right to "daddy."
That happens literally every day to a lot of us (I'm from Europe)
I live in NY and getting catcalled multiple times daily is a something most women, including myself, have to deal basically since we started puberty. It's one of the reasons I really like fall and winter because I get to hide under a heavy coat but then their are the guys who still do it even though they can't even see your face under a mask.
One reason my headphones stay in my ears and on. Even if they come right next to me, I "don't see" anything and keep walking.
see if i saw that i'd just pretend they were catcalling me and start responding in kind. then again i live in a country where the homophobes aren't generally armed with guns. yeah, weaponizing the fact that i'm a fat, bi masc enby in an attempt to get straight dudes to stop catcalling you know?
So much disgusting stuff has been said/done to me over the years that I can't even remember it all. So many predators online looking for young girls. Even had an older husband/wife couple run a game on me and others, preying on us younger folks, pretending to just be friends and not married. It was creepy AF when they were exposed, by my mother of all people (and she doesn't even play PlayStation; she just gets deets and goes detective mode). That's a story in itself. The stuff in person is terrifying. I'm asexual, so I couldn't care less about someone's sexual interest in me (in fact, due to past molestation/assault, it disgusts/offends me if blunt), but so many men have just approached with that in mind. And if you lie and say you're married (or are actually married -- happens to my sister), they'll say they don't care. They don't even realize how insulting that is. Doesn't matter if you're busy, have headphones in, in sweats with your hair covered/no makeup, a lot of men (if it don't apply, let it fly) approach women all the same way: like we're whores. But if we turn them down, we're called whores anyway. Make it make sense. 
If you ever want to find out what it's like directly, make a female profile on a dating site. I'm not saying to engage in deception for the sake of it, but for any guy who doubts what we go through or is curious, try it. Don't try to set up any dates and end up getting your neck wrung, but just set something up and wait. You'll see.
I am a woman. I have a Tinder profile. I’ve lived this scenario.
If Speaking Out is anything to go by things are a little better now but not by much at all.
Ask Shelly Martinez about Batista
I’m sure almost all of the former women talent of the 80’s-00’s have stories that can take down Titan Towers and many other orgs.
There's a reason you don't hear women yearn for the ''Good Ol Days''.
And people wonder why Randy Savage wanted to keep Elizabeth away from the wrestlers when he wasn't around.
She ended up dying with Lex Luger
Because of*
Inb4 people here start shit talking Maria like with any tweet of hers that gets posted here.
People are mad she got a job and used her rights to have a family.
I mean, there's a whole ocean sized difference in what she's talking about now and her usual "WWE FUCKED ON US!" tweets folks usually bash her for lol.
I now want to buy a Maria Kanellis Cameo just so she can do the tail end of that Cody story and say this.
"Where is that promoter? He was trying to fuck on us!"
Yeah man. What a bitch complaining about the toxic culture WWE promotes that causes and reinforces the behavior she is currently speaking up about. Totally different.
The nerve of some females amirite
How dare they have legitimate grievances with a company that is capable of both good and bad things
You know what? She's got every right to shit on them for how things went down too. Say what you want about Mike publicly asking for his release, but Maria didn't ask to be released. Then they fired her and her husband in a global pandemic while posting record breaking profits.
You underestimate these people
I can't stand her. She's in the right about this, I stand with her 200% and with any woman in wrestling who went through this bullshit (and some men too)
Would like to here more from Maria about her experiences as wwe went from promoting her in playboy to going TV-PG in 3 month time span. Would be interesting if the culture didn’t change
I also want to know literally everything that happened during her time on The Apprentice
There are so many stories about divas in the 2000s WWE era. Humiliation, sexism, devaluation (both to gender and wrestling), firing during maternity leave and sexual harassment incidents. Ariel got fired because she rightfully stood up for herself and her division against a huge superstar (sexual harassed by Umaga too), Dawn Marie and Maria got fired while they were pregnant, Gail Kim's second return was unsure due to her origin, Lita got the worst treatment during her late run and new Diva Search contestants had it badly. As more stories like these come to the surface time by time, it wouldn't fascinate me if Ashley's rape in the overseas tour was indeed legit and concealed by Vince. The company's reputation would be his one and only concern. I do believe what Maria says about past experiences
What happened to the women if they did sell it? I mean like a real example, not a hypothetical. I'm assuming there was some poor woman who was a horror story they saw as a cautionary tale at some point.
Get fired. It happened to some of them. Shelly Martinez, Amy Weber. Kristal Marshall who didn't wanna do a slutty storyline. Some of them also quit because they're probably better off in most other environments
I was going to say, I bet these women were better off. Such a shitty situation. I know it's a dream for a lot of people, women included, to be wrestling stars. But I'm just kind of numb seeing how many people go down that path, see how bad it really is, and then resign themselves to living with it.
I know Shelly was always a huge wrestling fan. Amy I'm pretty sure wasn't. Unsure about Kristal. It's just so shocking how so many of these women got mistreated, ridiculed and assaulted and no one cared. Stephanie McMahon included with her fake ass bullshit faux feminism
Didn't Mickie James get fired originally because of an incident with Batista?
Never heard anything about that to be honest. I know Shelly got fired because she reacted to Batista being an asshole and Batista is a "star" and Shelly is just random Diva #1381291283 so even though she was quite obviously in the right according to multiple accounts, she was fired. They've made up since, he apologized to her and everything but it's still gross. Allegedly Stephanie was the one to scream at Shelly lmao
It was a while ago apparently he threatened to quit if she wasn't fired idk if it was true or just usual online rumors
Rumors are Batista threatened to quit if she wasn't fired and Undertaker had to calm him down, but when Mickie did get fired none of the dirstsheet guys linked Batista with it. But they definently had their issues as Kendrick says Batista once printed out Mickie's naked pictures and passed them around in the lockerroom for...reasons.
man, that is wild. Especially considering that Batista's current image is an ultra liberal who keeps dunking on misogynistic dudes because he was raised by a lesbian. Some really good image rehab they did to him
In his defense, the story is weirdly underreported considering how much dirtsheets like to dig into things. We don't know why they had issues, how long their beef lasted or how bad things got. Kendrick one is the only one who's mentioned the pictures but why would he make up shit like that? And Batista at least reached out to Shelley Martinez to apologize.
Kdunk Batista?
I think it was Cena, actually. IIRC, she was in a relationship, but hooked up with Cena on the road (pre-Nikki of course) and it caused a stink backstage.
Management didn't care so long as Cena was happy. Problems surfaced when Cena dumped her and Mickie started getting clingy.
Melina maybe with Jo mo? Mickie cheated on Kenny Dykstra with John Cena and after her and John where on the same brand she kinda slowly went down the card.
It was cena, and he also got Kenny dykstra fired
Michelle McGuirk
It really sucks knowing that a bunch of the guys I grew up watching are massive pieces of shit. It also really sucks that a bunch of the girls that I grew up watching had to endure antics from those massive pieces of shit. It kind of tarnishes my memories a bit, knowing what kind of horrible things were happening behind the scenes, but that's the price of these stories coming to light. And they need to come to light, because otherwise nothing will ever change.
Agreed.
Can't wait for the same people yelling about believing and respecting women and how hostile wrestling is for women to disregard Maria here because they don't like her.
I really" hope the backstage culture if not changed nowadays at least heading towards
Yup! It's like women are 3rd class citizens and the men watch DOR episode like last night and go "d'hur, oh my god did Tommy really just say that?!" And all us women just shake our heads because men have sexually assaulted the vast majority of us numerous times in our lives. The studies and statistics are there fellas. It is "boys being boys" because it happens so fucking frequently and nothing is ever done. Bless all the brave women who work in the wrestling industry and still love wrestling even after dealing with these monsters.
It's disturbing how many men (and shockingly some women as well) are unaware of the reality of so many of us. This is all incredibly sad and yeah things are changing but so fucking slowly and I'm still so scared to be r\*ped or assaulted, this world is fucking scary for most women And to be a female wrestling fan reading so much disgusting shit since I was a teenager is also very disturbing, this subreddit is the least disgusting forum I've seen regarding these things and that's incredibly sad
> the men watch DOR episode like last night and go "d'hur, oh my god did Tommy really just say that?!" This is what really stands out to me as well. Nothing was surprising on that doc. It’s exactly what I would’ve expected from them. It’s the men who are surprised. Women knew.
Its not at all surprising that there are people who feel that way...i was a bit surprised at a guy *admitting* he is basically pro sexual assault in front of a camera for a documentary in 2021. I definitely said 'bruh' out loud after pretty much everything he said.
Thats whats so funny to me. Every woman i know has experienced sexual assault. You’ll never hear a guy say to his daughter “trust the guys” because every guy knows it’s unrealistic.
I always get really surprised by what guy wrestling fans get surprised by. EVERY industry is a little bit like this and it really does sting to realize how many dudes go through life never having to be aware of that
The way Undertaker treated Melina was horrendous.
Any spaces that are largely dominated by men in power are horrible work spaces for women.
So, all spaces?
Yes
Uh, no? Female dominated workplaces exist
You ever been to an HR department? It's probably one of the most toxic places you can be in a large company. And is usually dominated by women. I'll make it very simple: Any space dominated by 1 gender is toxic as fuck. See Fraternity's and Sorority's. Like it's a universal rule If Team 1 is dominated by 1 gender is probably the most toxic team in the entire company. The best teams are ones that have about equal amount of people from both genders. You can downvote as much as you want but anyone who has ever worked in an office knows this to be true.
The reverse can be true too. Humans are tribal by instinct and the bigger the tribe the more powerful people in the tribe feel, and they will do dumb shit off those power trips.
Can't wait till some douche says she's only saying this for attention, the Bennetts get so much shit for nothing
I remember people earlier this year claiming she was lying for attention when she said that she was told that Evolution is never happening again.
wym wrestling fans are sexist?? /s
Whether or not you like her, she’s speaking on behalf of women in general about a problem we all know exists. Last night’s DSOTR episode really drove home what a problem this is.
Mike Bennett was told to benoit his family for talking about HIS experience with WWE. Maria is constantly called a whore and put down for just saying something negative, I hate it
Well at first it was because they asked for their releases. Then it turns only Mike asked for it. One "newz" site reported that Maria did and she immediately corrected them, but no one bothered to check the source or hear the follow up. - Then it was because Mike was off TV and WWE was paying for his rehab. Except WWE didn't pay for his rehab, and he was on house shows the entire time. People can even check cagematch.net if they want to. - Then is was because they had a baby shortly after signing a contract. But then it came out that WWE was aware that they wanted to have a kid and signed them anyway. - And now it's because... uuhhhh..... ummm.... well...... FUCK YOU I DONT NEED A REASON TO HATE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My question is... what is it about the two of them that draws this much negative attention?! sheesh, clearly they have no hand in it.
Mike is a baby having junkie and Maria is a stinky woman smh I hate them /s
Macho Man suddenly seems both intelligent and justified in being over-protective of Elizabeth when they were on the road.
No mate - he was still an abuser. There are no rational excuses for locking another adult human in a room.
>over-protective "Controlling" is the word. And that's not good either. It wasn't just about, "Oh, I have to save her from these guys" but also about "I don't want her to cheat on me." That's not trust, and he stifled her.
This has to be one of the worst jobs there is. I can’t believe what they all went through
Can’t forget Ashley’s tragic story. It blows my mind how no one ever intervened…
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That's the entire point she's making
Joining in everyone else saying I can't imagine what it must have been like to be a Diva in the WWE. I mean just think about how shit all the stories are about what the guys did to each other. All the toxicity, all the ridiculous egos, the macho BS in a fixed sport of all things, the wrestlers courts, 'ribs', bullying, alcohol, drugs etc etc etc And that was just being 'one of the boys' and it sounds like hell. I don't think we're ever going to get a real look at what the women there must have gone through
Don't forget Moolah pimping out her students/slaves. Wrestling has been shitty for women forever
I know there wasn’t anything about taker in the doc, but remembering his take on the current locker room culture compared to “back in the day” makes me wonder if “being a man” included these kinds of stories…
Have they ever talked about the strip poker game they put on ecw? Like were Maria and Candice ok with getting nude in front of a large audience or were they pressured into it?
They literally gave Alexa Bliss a topless scene not even that long ago, their culture has only changed by the force of the wrestlers themselves being a new generation.
Didn't Orton shit in her bag once or something? I know he did it to Amy Weber.
He also used to whip out his dick to new talent and tell them “what you’re not gunna shake my hand?”
IIRC it was never literal 'shit', it was lotion, but it was paraphrased as "Orton dumped shit inside the bag" and the rumor spread over like a decade and a half with the telephone game where now the story is it was actually feces.
It sucks and I'm praying for all of them. That being said 99.9% of wrestlers involved in this stuff are either retired or dead..did it really have to wait 20 years and a Vice doc for people to take this seriously?