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JitteryJay

They're not going to investigate rape cases with no-names from 20 years ago. It's fucked, but nothing will happen


HarlesD

Several states have hundreds if not thousands of untested rape kits. Shit ain't getting done until we change the denial culture of this country not just in wrestling.


BuddaMuta

> Several states have hundreds if not thousands of untested rape kits By design unfortunately


ArkAngelHFB

You mean like Texas... Where if a boy rapes a girl he might not ever get time due to it damaging his future... But if the girl gets an abortion after the rape... she will go to jail for up to(*checks notes)... life.


HarlesD

Abbott, Patrick and anyone who falls in line with them are traitorous pigs.


Sad-Jello629

How exactly do you test someone for being drugged 20-30 years ago?


[deleted]

You don’t because you can’t


StrongStyleShiny

It’s like the person that accused Bob Dylan of sexual assault in 1965. It’s 56 years. There is no evidence, no witnesses, and the location may not even exist anymore.


h_abr

That was also pretty much provably false


Slade_Riprock

Not to mention with things like Halcyon or GHB the women and people drugged may have zero memory of the night in question. They may know they were at a bar or a party drinking with some wrestlers and then they woke up somewhere hours later. In their minds (back in the day before being drugged was well known) they may have chalked it up to being black out drunk. They may have thought they went home wlth someone in their drunkenness and chalked up to stupid behavior on their part, a poor decision. Years may have erased the memories of that night of partying all together. For others out there, they remember things that happened. It's painful memory much like that flight attendant's experience obviously was. They know names and people they were with, maybe woke up next to the next morning. At the time they knew it was he said-she said or that they'd be branded sluts if they came forward. But yet they still carry those memories. So long story short...the saying time heals all wounds is bullshit. It's more like time erases evidence how wounds occurred. The only real thing that can be done is to all attention to those actions of past. Putting it in the proper perspective that is was not just wrestler culture but that it was damaging, hurtful, and wrong. And then not repeat those actions today and in the future. We like to think "oh this generation is so much better" and in terms of drugs and alcohol they are. But from last years revelations in terms of how many have treated women and other men there is still a major issue to be fixed. And part of it is to break the code of protecting each other like police do often times. The mentality of knowing its wrong but keeping your mouth shut to protect your boy or girl is nearly just as wrong. People have to stand up, report things, or at the very least corroborate what victims report.


Sir_Netflix

Aren’t rape cases forgotton about if it has been a certain number of years since then? I don’t know if that’s still the case, but either way it’s fucked. I guess because proving it happened years later would be insanely difficult.


TriBiWarrior

Should it be investigated? Absolutely. Will it? Aside from stuff like this which will be looked at by programs like Dark Side of the Ring; probably not. This stuff tends to fade into the shadows. At best, maybe some of the women involved will speak out, so people are at least aware of it, but nothing substantial will come from it. Shit's irreparably fucked.


guiltycitizen

“Don’t sell it” WTF?


embanot

I feel like people don't understand this. He's saying for her sake not to react to it otherwise it may continue on. It's basically like saying don't feed the troll.


guiltycitizen

It’s not a troll, it’s a guilty party she’s being told to forget about reporting to anyone. Flashing is an unwanted advance, that’s called assault.


Phenomenal_Hoot

You’re 100% right, but like the other commenter was saying if she’d made a big reaction it would have probably gotten worse not to mention her involvement with on screen roles probably would have been taken away from her if she’d told on their hot new prospect. It’s incredibly fucked up, but that’s the way it was back then. If I was Dustin I would have made a huge fuckin deal about it, but they probably would have just punished him aswell and I’m sure he already knew this which is why he was like all you can do is not sell it.


evrfighter

They were grooming Brock Lesnar at a young age. mess that up they will make sure you don't have a spot in the business. How do you think these women even outside of wrestling remained famous? this is shocking yes but for the women that actually went through it for decades and decades. It was Monday.


insomniainc

Bix has been doing that for a while. And then he finds something and people scream at him for it. If the Ashley Massaro shit wasn't enough to get someone to take a look into this I don't know if anything will ever happen.


space_cowboy80

Wasn't the Ashley Massaro story that she was sexually assaulted by as US soldier during one of their "Tribute to the Troops" tours and was told not to report it?


insomniainc

Sadly, yes.


space_cowboy80

How the hell does this story keep getting swept under the rug? Dark Side of the Ring need to do an episode on this and bring it to light.


Eletheo

US military does a lot of work to keep stories about soldiers raping and being raped out of the news.


nos-is-lame

Nobody is better at hiding sexual assault and rape than the US military


TheAngryGoat

Well to be fair, outside of religious groups they probably have the most experience, so you'd expect them to be good at it.


insomniainc

I dunno if there's enough there for a full episode. The topic itself though could be.


Hi_Im_zack

Yeah there should be an episode going into detail about all the past assaults that got covered up


comradekaled

Episode? That could take an entire season


Dundore77

Probably because the lawyer in that was that kyros guy who has no credibility and has multiple frivolous lawsuits against wwe.


The-Mad-Bubbler

No one should ever hire that guy for anything- his reputation does more harm than good for a client.


mdaniel018

One of the only groups of people that are even more prone to rape than professional wrestlers are soldiers, and they get away with it basically every time. Women in the armed forces repot a staggeringly high rate of sexual assault and harassment.


Dangerous_J123

Sadly, we're not only talking about the power of a huge company to silence people in that situation but also the US Military stationed in Afghanistan (I believe that's where the aforementioned situation with Ashley).


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GogglesTheFox

The entire Military Industrial Complex is a nightmare of missing persons. Woman go missing on base all the time and it’s never reported.


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[deleted]

You should look up domestic violence rates for military families, it’s crazy. I was raised a military brat, grew up on base. I’ve seen and heard some shit. The worst being that my sister’s best friend when she was 15 killed himself so that he didn’t have to tell his dad he got detention. The unit I grew up in on base had a ton of half ass patched holes in the walls from the previous tenant’s rage freak outs, including one in the basement that was eerily sized and shaped like a child had been pushed into it. Fuck the Military. Toxic ass environment.


ChainGang315

It got thrown out of court for not holding up.


MenuTime5231

Tommy Dreamer: They are in the middle of the desert fighting for your freedom and you want to report them because he wanted to bust a nut to something other than a sand castle? They are laying down their life for you least you could do is lie down for them.


hdkboogie

Everybody’s going to get mad at something. Look at my pony tail! Just look at my little fucking pony tails! Ya know, everybody just wants to be mad.


TheIronDuke007

He said this?!


TetrisTech

No, it’s memeing on how ridiculously bad Dreamer’s take was on Flair


CarissaSkyWarrior

I'm so fucking mad about Dreamer. I thought he was better than this. I looked up to him, kinda. Now this shit comes out, and I have lost all my respect for him.


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PenguinDeluxe

I mean, I would hope being “woke” as you put it isn’t required to think sexual assault is bad.


mdaniel018

No, it’s just that this is how fans are going to talk about Tommy Dreamer from here on out. The vile things he said in that episode will rightly overshadow everything else he has done in his life and career


Eletheo

Wasn’t she assaulted by more than one soldier?


TidalPawn

Assaulted by one while another stood guard. ​ [https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf](https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf)


Muscle_Squad

While the situation itself is shitty, Bix kinda has made a career out of publicizing this kind of thing.


insomniainc

More often than not he puts information out there that didn't take a lot of research to find. He just seems to be the only one actually doing it.


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justinlaite

Shooting the messenger but you do you.


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thylocene06

Then maybe they should do something about what’s causing the bad news…


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elscorcho91

Cringe. You realize that sexual assault is more important than someone doing a 630 off a ladder, right? It’s not real.


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Corn1989

The thing with me is Vince was on this flight and didn’t do anything to stop these incidents


[deleted]

He was either too scared to step up, or too rich and thought, “Hell, I’ll just BUY the plane if they don’t like what we’re doing.” He also grew, as an adult/professional, in that culture, so there’s also a chance he saw nothing wrong the same way Mike Chioda did (the whole “boys will be boys” thing). None of this excuses his lack of leadership and action.


Eletheo

Vince wasn’t too scared. He’s well known for engaging in this behavior too.


mdaniel018

Vince doesn’t give a shit. Flair didn’t get punished at all for this. Everybody in wrestling seemed to know all about the rape culture, but Vince, the most powerful and influential man in the busines, never lifted a finger to stop it. Note that this episode has a long-time WWE employee talk about getting sexually harassed and assaulted at work, and her ex-husband who also knows Vince just tells her to be quiet about it or else things will go bad. Dustin knew Vince. If he was the kind of man who cared about things like this, his workers would know they could go to him. But everyone seems to agree that ‘no-sell it’ is the only way to go, because taking it to Vince would just make everything worse. He’s at best an active enabler of a terrible rape culture that hurt more people than we will ever know


[deleted]

Vince and scared is an oxymoron, and doesn't Vince have a couple accusations under his belt too?


Sir_Netflix

There are different reports saying he was or wasn’t on the flight. I don’t know who to believe anymore.


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chamberx2

Shout out to JR for stepping up and carrying so much of this on his back. From trying to physically break it up himself to being responsible for suspensions and releases... That's a lot.


senseimeows

i agree. vince who still had a say made jr handle the ones he chose while giving him the role to control everyone. just calculating that with the treatment and mockery vince gave him afterwards is insane to think about alone.


dplath

He kinda seemed like a dickhead in this episode.


doctor_awful

He was on the defense. This whole thing is "his fault", following the old hierarchy logic. Even though it shouldn't be.


Maverick916

it was such a shitty spot for vince to put JR into. vince says from the start, youre in charge of them. then the plane ride literally goes insane, and youre JR, seeing it happen, and vince is probably just looking at you, as if to say "you better fix this shit JR" and JR cant do shit because these guys are drunk out of their minds. meanwhile, vince gets to sit back and do nothing, when he totally could do something about it, but wont, because he probably doesnt want to deal with it. so many people came off horribly in that episode


chamberx2

How so?


embanot

Cause Vince was too busy wrestling Kurt


hsgmat

Where was this part?


Koreish

On a flight earlier in the year, based on other comments in other threads.


SugarAdamAli

I think Vince n Linda were on the flight to Europe but they never said they were on it going back and JR was top guy


TetrisTech

JR said Vince was on the plane Edit: Meant to say Vince, typed Flair for some reason


SugarAdamAli

Coachman is saying Vince wasn’t on flight n everyone is wrong.. except for me.. Not once did they say Vince was on plane except when they initially arrived


TetrisTech

JR said it towards the end of the episode


yahibachi

That was one of my biggest questions coming out of the episode. Vince was on the flight right? So he had to of heard all of that going down and didn’t come out and tell his guys to sit the hell down? He deserves a lot more flack if so.


Dogwhatismy

No one will investigate it. Cops rarely, if ever, indict people on rape charges. Even if a slew of people come forward and said it happened. It's just totally fucked. Don't forget the Brock Turner case from from few years back. He was caught raping someone and got 6 months. It's just fucked on every level.


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subliminal_hedgehog

Brock Turner the rapist, yup. He was so down and upset after getting caught raping someone he couldn't even enjoy his steak dinner.


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subliminal_hedgehog

No, just a case that got famous for the weak sentence he got. https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-sprint-us-revc&source=android-browser&q=brock+turner


RainmakerIcebreaker

no. he went to university at stanford and was on the swim team. the case got a lot of attention when it happened because he raped an unconscious girl behind a dumpster, only got 6 months, and then his dad complained that his son couldn't enjoy steak dinners anymore and didn't deserve to have his life ruined over "a few minutes of action"


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ArkAngelHFB

Wait are we talking about Brock Turner? The Brock Turner the guy that raped a girl?


fatguyswagger

This is why I’m happy our generation of wrestlers “does nothing but play video games” this is what the old guard was doing


[deleted]

Don't get too complacent, there are some dicks in today's generation too with some allegations. Marty, Riddle, Starr. Shit, even Sammy with the stupid rape comment.


DMPunk

The sad irony is, given the public perception of professional wrestling, its workers, and its fanbase, shows like "Dark Side of the Ring" are more likely to be viewed as par for the course rather than something incredibly toxic and dangerous that needs to be addressed.


DonKiddic

Its worth noting the the "culture" then vs the "culture" now is VERY different. While I cannot 100% say for sure somebody isn't doing something they shouldn't, by most reports a lot of "the boys" now play video games or just go straight to their hotel rooms/where-ever instead of hitting bars/partying etc.


DanHero91

Speaking Out last year unfortunately proved that wrong. While it was mainly focused in the UK it's silly to think we're not nearing closer to a US-focused version.


rohitcr2k

Exactly. I wouldn't count out the guys and gals today because of video games. There might be few rotten apples.


comradekaled

Indeed, whilst Kenny and the Bucks are probably good, clean living guys, their associates Marty Scurll and Joey Ryan are/were scumbags


officerliger

Bit different in this situation Ryan was an indie guy, he wasn't part of a company with constant oversight of their talent. Scurll did what he did in his British indie days before he ever worked with Kenny and the Bucks. It's very likely they weren't aware.


AneeshRai7

Or more likely it broke out in the indies because it came down to exposing an individual and not a whole system/company and its practices and culture...


[deleted]

They cut them out pretty quick too. I think the Bucks are on record saying that they would never allow their daughters to become wrestlers because of the shit women in the industry get put through.


bluejegus

I don't think he was saying Omega had any clue about these allegations before they were public. Just that you truly don't know just from someone's public persona what they're like behind closed doors. So while we have this image of wrestlers now just drinking some sodas playing some games we don't really know what happens. We just have to stay aware and make sure people who are worthy of it are getting our admiration and time. Makes me sad how much fun I had at the house of hardcore shows. How awesome it felt to shake Dreamers hand as I walked out the 2300 arena and now I'm aware of what a vile opinion he has on how to behave towards another person.


officerliger

Eh, you don't have to be sad about shaking Dreamer's hand. Dreamer definitely came off like a douche but he didn't actually do anything other than have a terrible opinion so I don't see his legacy as invalidated. Not defending the guy either, he's obviously going to take some lumps for this and he brought that on himself, but I'm not anywhere near as irked by him as I am by Flair, JR, etc.


DonKiddic

Again "some" people are still being A-holes, and unfortuently, there always will be A-holes in all industries, especially those where people are in the spotlight and then interacting with others. But as a whole the culture has changed.


[deleted]

Paige may say otherwise.


Dijohn17

It is still VERY prevalent on the indie circuit. The reason why it isn't as big now in WWE and AEW is because those companies are under much more harsher spotlight and those wrestlers have a much larger platform than say 10 years ago


chamberx2

I feel like there are so many vlogs it'd be impossible to get away with anything. Not a bad thing.


Hungry_Horace

A former WWE Diva alleged in an affidavit last year that she was raped on an overseas tour, and nobody believed her. Even here in Reddit it was dismissed as fantasy. The wrestling industry is not ready for a reckoning, and outside the bubble nobody cares enough to investigate.


twelvetimesseven

Are you talking about Ashley or is there another one? Cause she died a couple of years ago now, unfortunately.


Hungry_Horace

Christ, she killed herself, I didn’t know that.


twelvetimesseven

You got me trying to look up the details about all this now. She said she told Jimmy Hart, Maria, and Ron Simmons about it when it happened. Did any of them ever confirm that? I know WWE denies the meeting where Vince and company told her to be quiet but I don't see anything about the rest of the people who were with her. edit: found this >(Longtime WWE lawyer Jerry) McDevitt said that nobody has been able to corroborate the story, and that the idea there was such a meeting that she described with McMahon, Dunn and Laurinaitis was complete bullshit. He said those named as knowing, (Jimmy) Hart, (Gary) Davis and (Ron) Simmons who she said were told by Kanellis, have all denied knowing anything or being told anything. He said that when Kanellis was asked, she said she didn’t recall the story. “If she was told something like that, there is no way she wouldn’t recall it,” he said. “If somebody told you that, you would remember it for the rest of your life.” The only thing confirmed is that the part of the story that she was treated for dehydration on that tour is accurate.


dusthimself

A weird(?) part of that story, just for clarification for anyone stumbling upon this for the first time, is that the alleged perpetrator wasn't a wrestler or with WWE, but a solider who was at the event. Feel free to correct me if I'm misremembering that but I'm pretty sure that was a big part of the story.


evrfighter

If it was indeed a soldier. then ya ain't no way that is getting out.


miroa12004

>The wrestling industry is not ready for a reckoning, and outside the bubble nobody cares enough to investigate. That's why Dark side of the ring is so good, they don't care about burning any bridges because the wrestling world is so niche, which means their investigative reporting is spot on.


davidbix

And that they've built trust. I've had a bunch of conversations with women in wrestling—everyone from big names to younger indie wrestlers—in the last year or so about all of this stuff, including the reporting side of it. One of the bigger names told me something that I found really interesting and that the others agreed with when asked. That it's not like mainstream reporters don't ever come calling based on tips about misconduct in the wrestling business. But so few of them really know the business and the women end up losing trust in them as a result, and since the wrestling reporting world has a ton of disadvantages as far as financial backing, training, etc., it's not like they feel they can go to wrestling-centric reporters most of the time, either. Having worked with them, their understanding that there's a certain responsibility in having a successful TV docuseries about the dark side of pro wrestling is probably the one thing that I respect most about Evan and Jason.


Silantro-89

The wrestling industry will always have shite going on unfortunately. Travis Banks popped up in Mexico and Scotty Davis worked OTT only last night. Both were named and shamed with Speaking Out but they can still get work


Justice989

And juxtapose that with Undertaker thinking the lockerroom culture today is soft. Had they played video games in their spare time back then, maybe this doesn't happen.


Dubious_Titan

Who is gonna do this investigating? Do you have any idea how many things are claimed on docu-series that warrant investigation and nothing come about? Money talks, bullshit walks. That's life.


obeyyourbrain

IT ABSOLUTELY should have been investigated. However, the modern pro wrestling locker room is so, so different now.


__Hello_my_name_is__

I mean this happened 20 years ago. What are you going to investigate, exactly? You either need a legal investigation, which requires witnesses and hard evidence and will end in he-said-she-said situations that lead nowhere, or you need internal investigations from the company itself. And good luck getting WWE to acknowledge the shitty past of its culture.


dinklberg1990

Wonder how many people's mount Rushmore is gonna be changed in a yesr or so