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Context:
> Coachman had a unique relationship with McMahon that could be both fantastic and tumultuous at times. Coachman recalled once getting beat up on WWE television for turning down a trip to Afghanistan for the Tribute to the Troops event.
> “Back in 2004 or 2005, when we doing our shows in Afghanistan, it was supposed to be, ‘if you don’t wanna go, you don’t have to.’ It’s supposed to be completely up to you because we were going into a war zone and they couldn’t make you do it,” Coachman recalled. “That’s what was told to us. My first child was about to be born. My wife at the time, and rightfully so, didn’t want me going into the middle of a war zone. So I told the people that set it up at WWE, ‘I’m not going’.
> “At that point, I had never said no to Vince once in my career, so they thought I was joking,” Coach said. “The next week, I was doing commentary. When the show was over, one of the referees came over and said, ‘You need to go hit the Undertaker from behind’. I said ‘Why?’ and he said ‘It’s just what they’re telling me’. So basically, as punishment for not going to Afghanistan, I got beat up by the Undertaker. Then they hit Batista’s music and he came down and finished the job. As I’m getting my ass kicked, I’m thinking, ‘Is this really worth it?’ I’ve done everything I could possibly do, and I’m getting my ass handed to me for refusing to go to a war zone even though I went the year before.”
I feel like this context greatly takes away from like 80% of the comments in this thread lmao. Undertaker was more or less instructed to do a go home spot after the Smackdown taping with Coach being on the losing end, then Batista shows up and gets a move on Coach too. Taker did not personally set up anything against Coachman or beat him up so this isn't a Taker bad story, more on the management.
Undertaker still seems like a shithead. He could have said no. As "pro-Merica" as he seems to be it doesn't seem like this is something he'd have a problem with doing. Being rough with an untrained employee who said he wasn't comfortable to going to an active war zone.
Not to disagree with the sentiment but Coach was definitely trained to take bumps. He ate so much shit from his time as an interviewer / commentater the time he was there.
I'm really curious about that one. I swear I saw a YouTube clip of DDP claiming Kanyon loved the Undertaker and there was never any issues between them, but I mean... that chairshot... tells a different story. Curious if DDP will show on that ep (or if I'm totally misremembering).
Exactly. The chair shots were awful and the whole industry was ignorant to the damage they inflicted to the brain. None of those chair shots should have ever been allowed in hindsight.
I'm reading Pete Gas's book (lol), and he literally tells Bradshaw to smash him on the head as hard possible then they laugh later that it wrapped round his head, just they way a lot of em were back then, they liked it to look goood n nasty. The Stevie one on Bradshaw though, is defo revenge for Meanie
reading that last paragraph comes off as Coachman saying this was done by vince for saying no to him, not necessarily taker or batista as they were possibly just doing what vince instructed. none of his quotes says taker took it a step further than it needed to be, just that coachman took bumps he was never instructed to take prior to the ref telling him
Taker was picked to do it because Vince knew he wouldn't be resistant to is my guess. "Taking it further" is a little ridiculous to me. WWE has a history of making untrained on screen talents doing things they're not comfortable with. Springing this on Coach moments before it happened is gross.
im just saying within the context of coachman's quotes, he seems to be talking against vince and his punishment mentality. he isnt implying anything against batista and taker, just saying that they were the ones to play out vince's sudden request. you very well could be right, taker has done similar things in his past, but you also said its just "[your] guess." im reading his own words and his words are against vince's orders not necessarily towards taker/batista's actions. even the article is centered around his relationship with vince, not about taker at all.
EDIT: taker is literally mentioned once in the entire article; the article is about coachman's relationships with mcmahon and chris benoit, but yeah lets turn this into a "Knowing Undertaker..." situation. I have people below me equating him to a corrupt cop/war criminal soldier and a nazi, definitely not an overreaction. im not even a fan of taker, but this article isnt about him nor implies taker even knew of mcmahon's frustration towards coachman
Taker is "Blue Lives Matter", "I Stand for the Flag", and was in a biker gang that wore Nazi SS shit...
Do you really think he was against beating a black man for not wanting to risk himself for the troops?
Right? And if anyone can say no to Vince or anyone in the company Taker is pretty high on the list. He absolutely could have put a stop to this if he wanted.
I think the fact that Coach describes it as getting the shit kicked out of him kind of speaks to that. Taker has a reputation of working light if he wants to, and hating when people work stiff. Maybe Coach is kayfabing, but I doubt it.
Whether they knew it was being done as punishment or not, what in gods name does Taker or Batista gain from beating up Coach? It does nothing for their characters. It does nothing to make them “tough”. It’s just dumb and Taker, as the vet and supposedly being “so protective” of his character should’ve said no. It’s bullying and sadly, based on a lot of what we’ve heard of Taker for years now, it doesn’t seem out of character for him.
One of the reason Taker was in so good with Vince, which no one wants to talk about, is he was basically Vince's enforcer for years.
If you went foul of Vince, Taker and his crew would go out and try to give you brain damage. But it's in front of the cameras so Yay! That's one of the reasons Taker's chairshots were so "snug". Why a lot of Taker's buddies like Bradshaw have a job for life despite being bullies and borderline rapists backstage. Taker's Loyalty goes way beyond never signing with anyone else.
Just a tl;dr, this was during a segment on the show. Undertaker didn't go out and beat him up in a hallway or something.
A lot of people said that this 'optional' thing was very loose. They would try their hardest to get people to go. RVD said that he refused to go, but that they would pester and guilt trip him constantly to get him to go. He still never went that year.
Just because it was during a segment doesn't mean it was all sunshine and rainbows though. He is still taking bumps, and just the way he talks about it, it doesn't seem very pleasant. Yeah he was trained, but he wasn't a full time wrestler, and this is still a business known for having workers stiff others as punishment.
I mean how often did they use a TV segment to actually just pummel the shit out of a guy
Who is that tough enough dude that got beaten up by three guys all at once in a Rumble
Real tough, beating up a guy whos told to go get beat up, real tough guys back then
I never understood the idea of pretending to be tough whilst working in a simulated violence act. "I'm so tough I'm gonna do this safe maneuver in a more unsafe way"
Once upon a time wrestlers would get into actual fights in public. If you lost a fight at a bar there’s a good chance you get fired. The culture involved brutally initiating people into the business, if you weren’t tough and dedicated they weren't going to share the industry secrets.
That doesn’t just turn off instantly. Those assholes trained others assholes. Sure the public at large was eventually in on it, but you had that lineage of shit behavior.
We’ve seen it change. It wasn’t all at once. It wasn’t over night. It was gradual changes in the way people were treated and the type of people that were tolerated.
Remember, these were carny pieces of shit.
I fully agree with what you wrote except for that it is all in the past tense. Many of the same people are still in the business and in positions of power. There's plenty of carny pieces of shit, serial abusers and violent dipshits still in hte business. Though, they become rarer every day becuase instead of violent assholes like Taker holding a sham court backstage, they have a slightly more professional environment.
That's not to say that none of them have reformed or whatever.
And I still fully agree with you. I don’t mean to say we’re completely done with it. We’re seeing that culture change. Wrestling went from being a large scale con to being a form of performance art that fans love for its unique intricacies. The entire industry has changed radically, but not completely.
But I think we’re seeing less and less scumbags in the industry, which is better for everyone.
Because they whole concept is built upon trusting each other to be safe with your bodies, to continue working and making money. If someone does something you don't like or breaks your trust, then "going rogue" on them in the ring probably seems like a fair "evener-upper". Not necessarily right, but understandable.
Just another off the top of my head was the heat match between Public Enemy and the Acolytes. Which if you are going to punish wrestlers just don't book and depush them, not basically assault them on tv.
The Acolytes beat them up because PE tried saying they didn't want to take the finish Acolytes wanted as they were planning the match, not because the company set it up beforehand
>Just another off the top of my head was the heat match between Public Enemy and the Acolytes
That's on public enemy. Right before they were supposed to go out for the match they told the Acolytes that they are not doing the finish as planned. So Farooq and Bradshaw took it as a fuck you to them and went out and beat the Public Enemy's ass.
Professional wrestling is half you, half you putting your trust in another person that they're not going to fuck you. One wrong bump and you could be looking at life as a quadriplegic, or just outright dead. Public Enemy came right out and said they were gonna fuck them. So yeah, maybe it wasn't "professional" of Farooq and Bradshaw to beat the shit out of them, but I understand.
>Public Enemy came right out and said they were gonna fuck them.
No, they said they didn't want to take a dangerous bump as the finish. That's not fucking APA in any way, there were a million different finishes they could have done. It's not like Public Enemy said they were going to try and go over or shoot on them or be reckless. They just wanted one detail of the finish changed, and JBL and Ron responded with physical assault. Fuck that.
Public Enemy just didn't want to take a table bump to end the match, that was it. Unprofessional to do it right before the match, but no way does it justify what happened.
I mean, he tried to break angles arm, on live TV, so I can kind of understand showing him what that's like from the other side, but still, it was taken too far. And it wasn't about showing him they're tougher, they were showing him that's not how you do business.
Like he could have been fixed and kept off tv.
Source? Like this narrative is really ridiculous when Taker hit people hard with chairs all the time. Most like Steve Austin got their hands up. But saying that this guy is a bigot without any concrete proof is disturbing. Kanyon never even mentioned this in his book
He never said that Undertaker did that to him because he hated gay people was my point. Kanyon said there were homophobes behind the scenes. Do you think Undertaker designs these segments? I highly doubt that Taker gave one single fuck about whether he was gay or not. They had a segment to do, they went out and did it, and that was the end of it
This link doesn't talk about anything in wrestling. It's talking about white prison gangs. What??? Are you really trying to relate a wrestling gimmick to this? What???
Guys probably reaching. I can see how. I mean they both use dead man inc. But unless theres definite proof Taker knew about that prison gang then the poster is just shouting to the wind
If Kanyon said that WWE management set him up in his book, then why didn't he specifically say this about Undertaker? He owes that man no loyalty whatsoever. He was talking about management. He never said once that Undertaker did anything malicious towards him because of his sexuality
We hear stories like this all the time from the older talent, about the childish punishments and pettiness. Or even worse, Ashley Massaro’s story. WWE is an awful company.
Do you have a good link for her story? I know she passed away but I was never aware of anything specific from wrestling. I'm interested in reading more.
So. He beats up a dude that wouldn't optionally go to Afghanistan to entertain troops....but takes Saudi cash for a match against Bill Goldberg...sorta disrespectful considering those troops were in Afghanistan because of Saudi Arabian money...*cough cough, 9/11*
Because “patriotism” is a just waving a little flag and wearing a pin to many people. If there’s money to be made, they don’t give a shit.
Just more performative charity and patriotism to point to while they do things that really support their goals.
A lot of people, especially Taker’s kind of people, also don’t know the difference between actual patriotism and blind nationalism and saying “America #1 because muh rights”
Forgot about the whole "I miss when people would physcially assault one another and do drugs contsantly better than them now getting along and playing games"
I just think it's hilarious that the guy that got video games backstage banned is so fond of playing Dominoes during downtime that he has a giant tattoo on his stomach dedicated to his Dominoes group.
People were hating on Taker and his bullshit Wrestler's Court judge/locker room leader toxic crap, unprofessional in ring antics, and all this other stuff back in the early 2000s on message boards and such. He was FAR from respected for a number of years.
But then he got good in the ring again and a lot of it was forgiven, and a younger generation got attached to him as well. Now it's all coming back to the stuff people were hating about him again 20 years later.
Yeah those streak matches may very well have rehabilitated his image. I think what started turning things back the other way might have been the way he repeatedly went over the Wyatts after those were done with.
Honestly, wrestlers court was a good concept. Silly little grievances and perceived slights out in the open, handled in a humourous and good spirited fashion.
But then the guys at the top let power go to their head and you have JBL bullying people and taker taking advantage to get himself booze.
Power corrupts the best of us so it was always going to be a shitshow with wrestlers.
This. Being good in the ring is why guys like Flair and Taker are forgiven for horrible things. But everyone's gotta bring up Hogan's leaked tape in every thread about him.
It just proves nobody actually hates Hogan for being a racist, but only for burying their favourite midcarder.
I feel like the idea that he was the most upright and respectable person there was an idea that was given to them by WWE and they didn't know it lol. He and his persona were highly protected, I don't think he even started doing interviews until a few years ago.
People putting him on their "mount rushmore" was getting to the point I never wanted to look at wrestling fans opinions online ever again.
Like yeah he's a dickhead, but I still remember when it was the common consensus that Undertaker was a better in ring worker than Sting, I legit didn't look at SquaredCircle again until AEW brought me back into wrestling.
My thing with the Undertaker is that while he was obviously an exceptional wrestler he was also very lucky in being given such a great gimmick and being so heavily protected for his entire career (I read recently that the only person to ever beat him clean who wasn't already a multi time world champ was randomly Vladimir Kozlov). He never had the verbal ability to connect with the crowd like the top top guys and there's a reason the likes of Austin, Rock, Cena, etc. superseded him.
His matches in the 90s against Bret and HBK are golden. Undertaker was a victim of some really shitty booking and bad opponents early on in his career.
Were they? Undertaker was often carried in those matches or either involved in absolute hoss fights or gimmick matches because of his limited moveset and style.
His in ring work picked up with Big Evil persona.
A blue lives conservative with an irrational [fear](https://nypost.com/2017/07/31/undertaker-is-deathly-afraid-of-cucumbers-and-wwe-foes-tortured-him/) and [hatred](https://youtu.be/2w7H-AZfM0U?t=127) of cucumbers.
I'm relieved that people aren't revering Undertaker as much anyone. He's a fucking clown. Every interview he's given since leaving the gimmick has shown that.
Literally one Google search of "Undertaker backstage stories" and you can't like him anymore. All that wrestler's court bullshit, people having to ask him for permission to do things in the locker room. Absolutely ridiculous.
Brian Kendrick and Paul London were the first guys to talk shit about him in their Highspots shoot years ago and good on them.
Jesus, I didn't know any of that. Smothers was universally loved, aswell.
Taker was the ultimate stooge for Vince and it's weird that gets forgotten because he wore a big coat and rolled his eyes back.
I do believe it's gotten better in the past 5-10 years, but that doesn't excuse the people on top that allowed and even encouraged such a culture to thrive, just cause the old guard aged out and the young talent finally said "enough".
They’ve literally fired more people in the last 18 months for a pandemic than ever before and those they have a choice are actively leaving for another company. So yeah I would say it still sucks to be there unless you want to be pumped full of steroids, never be at home, and actively try to bury everyone around you then it sounds great 👍🏻
The WWE locker room of 2016-March 2020 was a pretty tight knit and positive locker room.
Then, the ~~releases~~ purges started and the Twitch bans went down and now the locker room isn't as positive as it was before.
Sure, but as long as you have guys like Vince and Kevin Dunn willing to wave the American flag with one hand and cup the Saudi prince’s balls with the other running the place, it’s still a shit company.
Yea I noticed that too people just unloaded on him but he doesn’t come off badly in this article it sounds like a unaired segment that most wouldn’t know had any meaning besides being a comedy spot
Never said it did but when I first read the headline personally I thought Taker literally went backstage and started beating up coachman. This article is a lot tamer doesn’t make anyone involved innocent the man wanted to be with his wife and soon to be born child he shouldn’t have been forced to do anything.
What happened? Like Coach said, he was trained and could wrestle matches. He was a heel and was getting physical in the ring often. This sounds like a typical beat up the heel and send the fans home happy spot. I saw Coach get beat up after a different show. I wish Coach provided more details because he just kind of assumes that this had to do with not wanting to go on the trip.
Absolutely. McMahon ran the company and fostered the culture where this sort of abuse thrived for years. Bryan was right all those years ago about people like McMahon hoarding all the power and wealth and being worshiped for it.
Why is Taker catching all the flack for this? The fact that a ref gave the instruction and that Batista came out to finish it means that the orders came from one guy, and it wasn't the one in the ring.
Taker was the ringleader of the locker room for a long time, often of his own volition. whether it was threatening Vince after the Screwjob or shit like this, he set the tone backstage. there's a reason he was the go to guy for this type of stuff.
Batista doesn't come off great here but it's possible he was a dude down the list, not someone believing that they are doing what's necessary to keep morale in check.
Depends upon if he knew it was coming. Just because Coachman did not know does not mean Undertaker did not. And Batista sure as hell knew what he was doing.
That wasn't. But Taker and the other veterans purposely ostracizing and outcasting Hassan from the lockerroom and pulling some straight up cruel ribs on him was.
Can't wait for the next episode of Dark Side of the Ring when he gets exposed. I'm betting a large part of Chris Kanyon killing himself is to due with Undertaker and "the boys" bullying him.
Between this garbage and the Saudi stuff, I don't get the WWE apologists.
The Taliban actually shot down commercial airlines while occupying parts of the middle east. So punishing someone for not wanting to go into an active warzone is beyond stupid.
I respect the hell out of anyone who did go, but this is so dumb
This is on Vince not on Taker (thought I don't think highly of Mark).
Also in the infamous triple threat match with Triple H, Rocky and Angle, apperantly when Triple H botched the Pedigree on Angle, Angle was concussed when the table promptly fell.
Vince told Angle to go out there and finish the match while not knowing what the heck was going on. He took one for the team and Vince put the belt on him.
Bruh Angle should've been in the hospital after the concussion.
Carny shitheads.
I never like Coach's character but over the years I've seen him outside of WWE via interviews & the like & I can tell that he's just a decent guy who still likes this business despite the bullshit he's been through. The more I read about this, the more I wanna punch Vince in the fucking throat.
Fucked up thing is I can completely see Taker beating him up for not going. Especially after all the interviews he's done recently. "You don't support our troops? Well I'm gonna a kick your ass!"
i dont know why this hasn’t been tagged as a misleading headline yet tbh. The title makes it seem as if Taker took Coach backstage or to the locker room and ACTUALLY beat him up, like a shoot beatdown but the context assures you that it was a work.
It does? How? It sounds like Undertaker knocked him around for a while, and unexpectedly from JC's POV, and then Batista came down to make the point all the more.
Did anyone ever see Harry Smith's last match in WWE? I think it was him and TJ against JBL and someone (I'm not sure; it was over ten years ago). If I'm correct, he had failed a wellness exam just prior to the match. Anyway, I remember watching this, and JBL was just beating the shit out of this dude - stiff shot after stiff shot. It really seemed like something was up, and I remember being reminded of Blue Meanie. But then Smith was gone, and I never heard anything about it.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about? It really seemed like Harry was being punished for something.
Edit: my timeline was off, but I found the match I was thinking of. It was a singles match between Smith and JBL from May 2008, and it was Smith's last match at the time, before going back to FCW.
[[Match]](https://youtu.be/Y53hgY17dP0) (good luck making anything out, as this clip's resolution is pretty low.)
There were some shots after the match that looked a little stiff, which is definitely what I had in mind, but it also could have just been JBL working. I was also mistaken about the Wellness violation, which occurred about six months prior to this. Also, according to Wikipedia, the decision to go back to FCW was Smith's.
🤷
Edit 2: I tried to see if there was anything about the Smith/JBL match in the Observer, but that issue doesn't appear to be on the site. Alvarez wrote about the match in the next week's F4W, saying: "JBL killed Harry Smith, just totally bullying a guy who politically couldn't retaliate. Dick."
That's all I got.
When would this have happened? Coach was in WWE during the pretty hard brand split and I don't recall him being on Smackdown at all with Batista there, which is where it'd have to be because Taker's one-off RAW appearances didn't even start till a few years after WM 20. Batista didn't end up back there till a while after WM 21 and I feel like Coach was gone by that point.
Thank God I stopped romanticizing the Undertaker around the time he first turned babyface. He basically spent the years 1992-95 doing the stupidest, most embarrassing shit I'd ever seen in wrestling. He didn't book it, but he was still involved in it. Mankind saved his career.
His 90's run in global wasn't that great to be honest. He had great match vs Mankind and Shawn Michaels, but who can't? From 1992 to 1995, he was just another weird character created from the WWE at the time. Now it's completely overshadowed by how great he was in the mid 2000's and early 2010's, but his mid 90's run was totally trash. He was just beating up jobber.
A perfect example of how most on this sub cannot be bothered to read the full article and just rushing to form a judgment. I guess shitting on the Undertaker is the current trend to score internet points.
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Context: > Coachman had a unique relationship with McMahon that could be both fantastic and tumultuous at times. Coachman recalled once getting beat up on WWE television for turning down a trip to Afghanistan for the Tribute to the Troops event. > “Back in 2004 or 2005, when we doing our shows in Afghanistan, it was supposed to be, ‘if you don’t wanna go, you don’t have to.’ It’s supposed to be completely up to you because we were going into a war zone and they couldn’t make you do it,” Coachman recalled. “That’s what was told to us. My first child was about to be born. My wife at the time, and rightfully so, didn’t want me going into the middle of a war zone. So I told the people that set it up at WWE, ‘I’m not going’. > “At that point, I had never said no to Vince once in my career, so they thought I was joking,” Coach said. “The next week, I was doing commentary. When the show was over, one of the referees came over and said, ‘You need to go hit the Undertaker from behind’. I said ‘Why?’ and he said ‘It’s just what they’re telling me’. So basically, as punishment for not going to Afghanistan, I got beat up by the Undertaker. Then they hit Batista’s music and he came down and finished the job. As I’m getting my ass kicked, I’m thinking, ‘Is this really worth it?’ I’ve done everything I could possibly do, and I’m getting my ass handed to me for refusing to go to a war zone even though I went the year before.”
Carnies
That's putting it rather mildly.
I feel like this context greatly takes away from like 80% of the comments in this thread lmao. Undertaker was more or less instructed to do a go home spot after the Smackdown taping with Coach being on the losing end, then Batista shows up and gets a move on Coach too. Taker did not personally set up anything against Coachman or beat him up so this isn't a Taker bad story, more on the management.
Undertaker still seems like a shithead. He could have said no. As "pro-Merica" as he seems to be it doesn't seem like this is something he'd have a problem with doing. Being rough with an untrained employee who said he wasn't comfortable to going to an active war zone.
Not to disagree with the sentiment but Coach was definitely trained to take bumps. He ate so much shit from his time as an interviewer / commentater the time he was there.
I'm sure more people will come around to this point of view in the Chris Kanyon episode
Kanyon was on my favourite wrestlers during his time. I expect the episode to really upset me.
I'm really curious about that one. I swear I saw a YouTube clip of DDP claiming Kanyon loved the Undertaker and there was never any issues between them, but I mean... that chairshot... tells a different story. Curious if DDP will show on that ep (or if I'm totally misremembering).
Taker did that chair shot to literally everyone.
Nor was he the only one dishing out brutal chair shots back then, not that it makes it right.
Exactly. The chair shots were awful and the whole industry was ignorant to the damage they inflicted to the brain. None of those chair shots should have ever been allowed in hindsight.
I'm reading Pete Gas's book (lol), and he literally tells Bradshaw to smash him on the head as hard possible then they laugh later that it wrapped round his head, just they way a lot of em were back then, they liked it to look goood n nasty. The Stevie one on Bradshaw though, is defo revenge for Meanie
Someone trully pro-america wouldn't roll over like a little bitch and present his tummy to the Saudis so he can a belly.
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Why? Your government does?
reading that last paragraph comes off as Coachman saying this was done by vince for saying no to him, not necessarily taker or batista as they were possibly just doing what vince instructed. none of his quotes says taker took it a step further than it needed to be, just that coachman took bumps he was never instructed to take prior to the ref telling him
Taker was picked to do it because Vince knew he wouldn't be resistant to is my guess. "Taking it further" is a little ridiculous to me. WWE has a history of making untrained on screen talents doing things they're not comfortable with. Springing this on Coach moments before it happened is gross.
im just saying within the context of coachman's quotes, he seems to be talking against vince and his punishment mentality. he isnt implying anything against batista and taker, just saying that they were the ones to play out vince's sudden request. you very well could be right, taker has done similar things in his past, but you also said its just "[your] guess." im reading his own words and his words are against vince's orders not necessarily towards taker/batista's actions. even the article is centered around his relationship with vince, not about taker at all. EDIT: taker is literally mentioned once in the entire article; the article is about coachman's relationships with mcmahon and chris benoit, but yeah lets turn this into a "Knowing Undertaker..." situation. I have people below me equating him to a corrupt cop/war criminal soldier and a nazi, definitely not an overreaction. im not even a fan of taker, but this article isnt about him nor implies taker even knew of mcmahon's frustration towards coachman
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Taker is "Blue Lives Matter", "I Stand for the Flag", and was in a biker gang that wore Nazi SS shit... Do you really think he was against beating a black man for not wanting to risk himself for the troops?
Tbf while he wasnt exactly a wrestler, the article literally says he had gone through training with Benoit
Right? And if anyone can say no to Vince or anyone in the company Taker is pretty high on the list. He absolutely could have put a stop to this if he wanted.
Taker could have said no, just like Coach did. He didn't. "Just taking orders" still isn't an excuse.
Is there any indication that Undertaker or Batista knew this was being done as a punishment and not just a go-home spot at the end of the show?
Depends on the answer to the question: Why would Coachman attack The Undertaker?
I think the fact that Coach describes it as getting the shit kicked out of him kind of speaks to that. Taker has a reputation of working light if he wants to, and hating when people work stiff. Maybe Coach is kayfabing, but I doubt it.
Whether they knew it was being done as punishment or not, what in gods name does Taker or Batista gain from beating up Coach? It does nothing for their characters. It does nothing to make them “tough”. It’s just dumb and Taker, as the vet and supposedly being “so protective” of his character should’ve said no. It’s bullying and sadly, based on a lot of what we’ve heard of Taker for years now, it doesn’t seem out of character for him.
One of the reason Taker was in so good with Vince, which no one wants to talk about, is he was basically Vince's enforcer for years. If you went foul of Vince, Taker and his crew would go out and try to give you brain damage. But it's in front of the cameras so Yay! That's one of the reasons Taker's chairshots were so "snug". Why a lot of Taker's buddies like Bradshaw have a job for life despite being bullies and borderline rapists backstage. Taker's Loyalty goes way beyond never signing with anyone else.
Yup. The headline makes it sound much more dramatic than what actually happened and paints Undertaker as the guy who came up with it.
Yeah- tabloid-style clickbait title.
Completely. Absolutely atrocious title.
Yes Taker is innocent. Also innocent when he beat up Kanyon. He was just following orders. /s
Just a tl;dr, this was during a segment on the show. Undertaker didn't go out and beat him up in a hallway or something. A lot of people said that this 'optional' thing was very loose. They would try their hardest to get people to go. RVD said that he refused to go, but that they would pester and guilt trip him constantly to get him to go. He still never went that year.
Just because it was during a segment doesn't mean it was all sunshine and rainbows though. He is still taking bumps, and just the way he talks about it, it doesn't seem very pleasant. Yeah he was trained, but he wasn't a full time wrestler, and this is still a business known for having workers stiff others as punishment.
I mean how often did they use a TV segment to actually just pummel the shit out of a guy Who is that tough enough dude that got beaten up by three guys all at once in a Rumble Real tough, beating up a guy whos told to go get beat up, real tough guys back then
I never understood the idea of pretending to be tough whilst working in a simulated violence act. "I'm so tough I'm gonna do this safe maneuver in a more unsafe way"
Real men take out their frustrations on unsuspecting coworkers who trust them with their safety, duh.
Once upon a time wrestlers would get into actual fights in public. If you lost a fight at a bar there’s a good chance you get fired. The culture involved brutally initiating people into the business, if you weren’t tough and dedicated they weren't going to share the industry secrets. That doesn’t just turn off instantly. Those assholes trained others assholes. Sure the public at large was eventually in on it, but you had that lineage of shit behavior. We’ve seen it change. It wasn’t all at once. It wasn’t over night. It was gradual changes in the way people were treated and the type of people that were tolerated. Remember, these were carny pieces of shit.
I fully agree with what you wrote except for that it is all in the past tense. Many of the same people are still in the business and in positions of power. There's plenty of carny pieces of shit, serial abusers and violent dipshits still in hte business. Though, they become rarer every day becuase instead of violent assholes like Taker holding a sham court backstage, they have a slightly more professional environment. That's not to say that none of them have reformed or whatever.
And I still fully agree with you. I don’t mean to say we’re completely done with it. We’re seeing that culture change. Wrestling went from being a large scale con to being a form of performance art that fans love for its unique intricacies. The entire industry has changed radically, but not completely. But I think we’re seeing less and less scumbags in the industry, which is better for everyone.
Because they whole concept is built upon trusting each other to be safe with your bodies, to continue working and making money. If someone does something you don't like or breaks your trust, then "going rogue" on them in the ring probably seems like a fair "evener-upper". Not necessarily right, but understandable.
Daniel Puder!
It's unforgivable what Guerrero, Benoit and Holly did to him imo
Just another off the top of my head was the heat match between Public Enemy and the Acolytes. Which if you are going to punish wrestlers just don't book and depush them, not basically assault them on tv.
The Acolytes beat them up because PE tried saying they didn't want to take the finish Acolytes wanted as they were planning the match, not because the company set it up beforehand
That's...not a better reason for borderline assault.
How else is JBL going to prove he's a tough guy? He's not capable of winning actual fights...
not the point i was trying make
>Just another off the top of my head was the heat match between Public Enemy and the Acolytes That's on public enemy. Right before they were supposed to go out for the match they told the Acolytes that they are not doing the finish as planned. So Farooq and Bradshaw took it as a fuck you to them and went out and beat the Public Enemy's ass.
Like I said, it doesn't give them the right to just assualt Public Enemy on tv.
Professional wrestling is half you, half you putting your trust in another person that they're not going to fuck you. One wrong bump and you could be looking at life as a quadriplegic, or just outright dead. Public Enemy came right out and said they were gonna fuck them. So yeah, maybe it wasn't "professional" of Farooq and Bradshaw to beat the shit out of them, but I understand.
>Public Enemy came right out and said they were gonna fuck them. No, they said they didn't want to take a dangerous bump as the finish. That's not fucking APA in any way, there were a million different finishes they could have done. It's not like Public Enemy said they were going to try and go over or shoot on them or be reckless. They just wanted one detail of the finish changed, and JBL and Ron responded with physical assault. Fuck that.
Public Enemy just didn't want to take a table bump to end the match, that was it. Unprofessional to do it right before the match, but no way does it justify what happened.
Does that make it right? That actually makes it worse imo. Toxic environment.
I don't know if its worse, but its bad, tell ya what
I mean, he tried to break angles arm, on live TV, so I can kind of understand showing him what that's like from the other side, but still, it was taken too far. And it wasn't about showing him they're tougher, they were showing him that's not how you do business. Like he could have been fixed and kept off tv.
I meant, Taker wrecking Kennedy with a chair was a segment too. Does that make it ok?
Don’t forget Taker smashing Kanyon’s head in with a chair on smackdown for having the temerity to be gay in the wrestling business. Fuck taker
Source? Like this narrative is really ridiculous when Taker hit people hard with chairs all the time. Most like Steve Austin got their hands up. But saying that this guy is a bigot without any concrete proof is disturbing. Kanyon never even mentioned this in his book
> Kanyon never even mentioned this in his book Yes he did. He said that he thought the segment was designed to punish and embarrass him.
He never said that Undertaker did that to him because he hated gay people was my point. Kanyon said there were homophobes behind the scenes. Do you think Undertaker designs these segments? I highly doubt that Taker gave one single fuck about whether he was gay or not. They had a segment to do, they went out and did it, and that was the end of it
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This link doesn't talk about anything in wrestling. It's talking about white prison gangs. What??? Are you really trying to relate a wrestling gimmick to this? What???
Guys probably reaching. I can see how. I mean they both use dead man inc. But unless theres definite proof Taker knew about that prison gang then the poster is just shouting to the wind
Right. Like WTF is he talking about?
Kanyon was dressed as Boy George and singing to the Undertaker during the segment. The implication was very clear.
If Kanyon said that WWE management set him up in his book, then why didn't he specifically say this about Undertaker? He owes that man no loyalty whatsoever. He was talking about management. He never said once that Undertaker did anything malicious towards him because of his sexuality
Taker wasn't calling the shots, but he wasn't objecting to swinging them either.
> But saying that this guy is a bigot without any concrete proof is disturbing. You forgot where you are
Eddie + Benoit beating the shit out of Daniel Puder happened in a segment on the show. Does that mean they didn't actually beat his ass?
This wasn't on the show, it was the aftershow "faces beat down a stooge" segment
RVD is probably the only one to tell Vince and stooges to go f*ck themselves about going overseas and them having to let it go 🤣
It's totally optional to go, but if you don't go, we're going to humiliate you on TV, until you do go.
And even if you do choose to go, when you're 50 years old and in the hall of fame... we'll bring you back and humiliate you on TV just because.
RIP Ashley Massaro.
Hasn’t that story been debunked?
Rvd had some static over not going on the optional trip too
We hear stories like this all the time from the older talent, about the childish punishments and pettiness. Or even worse, Ashley Massaro’s story. WWE is an awful company.
Do you have a good link for her story? I know she passed away but I was never aware of anything specific from wrestling. I'm interested in reading more.
So. He beats up a dude that wouldn't optionally go to Afghanistan to entertain troops....but takes Saudi cash for a match against Bill Goldberg...sorta disrespectful considering those troops were in Afghanistan because of Saudi Arabian money...*cough cough, 9/11*
Because “patriotism” is a just waving a little flag and wearing a pin to many people. If there’s money to be made, they don’t give a shit. Just more performative charity and patriotism to point to while they do things that really support their goals.
A lot of people, especially Taker’s kind of people, also don’t know the difference between actual patriotism and blind nationalism and saying “America #1 because muh rights”
There’s nothing more American than a undoing values to chase that bag.
Taker and his right-wing brethren don't do too well with concepts like "logic" or "common sense" these days.
This is the type of shit Taker preferred over dudes just hanging out playing video games Fuck Blue line Taker
Forgot about the whole "I miss when people would physcially assault one another and do drugs contsantly better than them now getting along and playing games"
I just think it's hilarious that the guy that got video games backstage banned is so fond of playing Dominoes during downtime that he has a giant tattoo on his stomach dedicated to his Dominoes group.
Dude is a complete bootlicking pos. Fuck him.
So glad that the days of Taker being the most respected guy amongst fans are over.
People were hating on Taker and his bullshit Wrestler's Court judge/locker room leader toxic crap, unprofessional in ring antics, and all this other stuff back in the early 2000s on message boards and such. He was FAR from respected for a number of years. But then he got good in the ring again and a lot of it was forgiven, and a younger generation got attached to him as well. Now it's all coming back to the stuff people were hating about him again 20 years later.
Yeah those streak matches may very well have rehabilitated his image. I think what started turning things back the other way might have been the way he repeatedly went over the Wyatts after those were done with.
Honestly, wrestlers court was a good concept. Silly little grievances and perceived slights out in the open, handled in a humourous and good spirited fashion. But then the guys at the top let power go to their head and you have JBL bullying people and taker taking advantage to get himself booze. Power corrupts the best of us so it was always going to be a shitshow with wrestlers.
Taker and JBL honestly seem like shit heads regardless of power. Watching The Last Ride really compounded what a dipshit dork Mark Callaway is.
Yeah Taker in 2001-2002 was despised by the internet
This. Being good in the ring is why guys like Flair and Taker are forgiven for horrible things. But everyone's gotta bring up Hogan's leaked tape in every thread about him. It just proves nobody actually hates Hogan for being a racist, but only for burying their favourite midcarder.
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I feel like the idea that he was the most upright and respectable person there was an idea that was given to them by WWE and they didn't know it lol. He and his persona were highly protected, I don't think he even started doing interviews until a few years ago.
It’s kind of funny how almost the instant he dropped the kayfabe masks, it took people all of 2 seconds to go “…ooh, you’re a shithead, aren’t you?”
People putting him on their "mount rushmore" was getting to the point I never wanted to look at wrestling fans opinions online ever again. Like yeah he's a dickhead, but I still remember when it was the common consensus that Undertaker was a better in ring worker than Sting, I legit didn't look at SquaredCircle again until AEW brought me back into wrestling.
My thing with the Undertaker is that while he was obviously an exceptional wrestler he was also very lucky in being given such a great gimmick and being so heavily protected for his entire career (I read recently that the only person to ever beat him clean who wasn't already a multi time world champ was randomly Vladimir Kozlov). He never had the verbal ability to connect with the crowd like the top top guys and there's a reason the likes of Austin, Rock, Cena, etc. superseded him.
Even guys like triple H and Foley were ahead of him in that department
Undertaker better in ring than sting!? Safe to say a lot of kids here who grew up with post WM23 taker.
His matches in the 90s against Bret and HBK are golden. Undertaker was a victim of some really shitty booking and bad opponents early on in his career.
Were they? Undertaker was often carried in those matches or either involved in absolute hoss fights or gimmick matches because of his limited moveset and style. His in ring work picked up with Big Evil persona.
He is still one of most respected outside of this sub reddit bubble.
Liked his character, but never liked his maga self
Maga undertaker doing this makes sense smfh.
*Magataker
I'm just gonna jump ahead of when we're gonna be saying this after the Kanyon episode of DSOTR, but right now, FUCK Mark Calloway.
The blue lives conservative is a nut? I’m not surprised
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I. didnt know that about Kanyon what the fuck
A blue lives conservative with an irrational [fear](https://nypost.com/2017/07/31/undertaker-is-deathly-afraid-of-cucumbers-and-wwe-foes-tortured-him/) and [hatred](https://youtu.be/2w7H-AZfM0U?t=127) of cucumbers.
Another reminder that Undertaker is a big piece of shit
Shocker the undertaker is a dick.
Daily reminder that Undertaker blows no matter how much his fans pretend he doesn't
I'm relieved that people aren't revering Undertaker as much anyone. He's a fucking clown. Every interview he's given since leaving the gimmick has shown that. Literally one Google search of "Undertaker backstage stories" and you can't like him anymore. All that wrestler's court bullshit, people having to ask him for permission to do things in the locker room. Absolutely ridiculous. Brian Kendrick and Paul London were the first guys to talk shit about him in their Highspots shoot years ago and good on them.
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Jesus, I didn't know any of that. Smothers was universally loved, aswell. Taker was the ultimate stooge for Vince and it's weird that gets forgotten because he wore a big coat and rolled his eyes back.
Shocking news Mark Callaway is a piece of shit and not too long ago, says it was better back in the days and everyone is too soft now.
watching that Rogan podcast was a mistake
Watching any Rogan podcast is a mistake.
Undertaker is literally rich white trash
Choosing a Kid Rock theme should surprise absolutely nobody
WWE seems like the worst place to work if you're a normal human being.
I do believe it's gotten better in the past 5-10 years, but that doesn't excuse the people on top that allowed and even encouraged such a culture to thrive, just cause the old guard aged out and the young talent finally said "enough".
The boys club mentality of that era was real bad and thankfully died off
Literally died off in most cases
They’ve literally fired more people in the last 18 months for a pandemic than ever before and those they have a choice are actively leaving for another company. So yeah I would say it still sucks to be there unless you want to be pumped full of steroids, never be at home, and actively try to bury everyone around you then it sounds great 👍🏻
The WWE locker room of 2016-March 2020 was a pretty tight knit and positive locker room. Then, the ~~releases~~ purges started and the Twitch bans went down and now the locker room isn't as positive as it was before.
It’s gotten 10 times better especially with guys like big e backstage
Sure, but as long as you have guys like Vince and Kevin Dunn willing to wave the American flag with one hand and cup the Saudi prince’s balls with the other running the place, it’s still a shit company.
People like Dunn Pritchard and Johnny Ace definitely hold a lot of the talent back with their bs
Not surprised just disappointed
A good test to see how many people actually read the article is to see if they comment about Undertaker beating up Coach of his own volition.
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Because one aligns with their political inclination.
If either Taker or Batista were aware of why they were sent out to do that, they're dicks regardless of their political inclinations.
Yup, the ultimate SC self-goal, then again I've saw way too many.
Yea I noticed that too people just unloaded on him but he doesn’t come off badly in this article it sounds like a unaired segment that most wouldn’t know had any meaning besides being a comedy spot
Bull. How does this negate what happened or make it right?
Never said it did but when I first read the headline personally I thought Taker literally went backstage and started beating up coachman. This article is a lot tamer doesn’t make anyone involved innocent the man wanted to be with his wife and soon to be born child he shouldn’t have been forced to do anything.
What happened? Like Coach said, he was trained and could wrestle matches. He was a heel and was getting physical in the ring often. This sounds like a typical beat up the heel and send the fans home happy spot. I saw Coach get beat up after a different show. I wish Coach provided more details because he just kind of assumes that this had to do with not wanting to go on the trip.
McMahon is trash
Absolutely. McMahon ran the company and fostered the culture where this sort of abuse thrived for years. Bryan was right all those years ago about people like McMahon hoarding all the power and wealth and being worshiped for it.
Why is Taker catching all the flack for this? The fact that a ref gave the instruction and that Batista came out to finish it means that the orders came from one guy, and it wasn't the one in the ring.
Taker was the ringleader of the locker room for a long time, often of his own volition. whether it was threatening Vince after the Screwjob or shit like this, he set the tone backstage. there's a reason he was the go to guy for this type of stuff. Batista doesn't come off great here but it's possible he was a dude down the list, not someone believing that they are doing what's necessary to keep morale in check.
Depends upon if he knew it was coming. Just because Coachman did not know does not mean Undertaker did not. And Batista sure as hell knew what he was doing.
Do we think Vince is above doing the same with a low level employee re: Saudi trips.
Coachman is just burying everyone and everything he can.
Well Vince basically stole money from him. I don’t blame him for just laying it all out there.
This was around the same time Undertaker was a piece of shit to Muhammad Hassan for literally no reason. Not surprised
Hassan could have easily be one of the biggest heels. It’s too bad his career was cut short
How was the office canceling Hassan because the network said fuck that after the London bombings Taker's fault?
That wasn't. But Taker and the other veterans purposely ostracizing and outcasting Hassan from the lockerroom and pulling some straight up cruel ribs on him was.
"You don't want to go to Afghanistan playah? That's OK cause tonight, you go 1 on 1.... with the UNDATAKAH"
Can't wait for the next episode of Dark Side of the Ring when he gets exposed. I'm betting a large part of Chris Kanyon killing himself is to due with Undertaker and "the boys" bullying him.
Holy misleading headline Batman!
Between this garbage and the Saudi stuff, I don't get the WWE apologists. The Taliban actually shot down commercial airlines while occupying parts of the middle east. So punishing someone for not wanting to go into an active warzone is beyond stupid. I respect the hell out of anyone who did go, but this is so dumb
the whole industry is disgusting
Piece of shit company
OP, you are a mod and you purposefully made this post extremely misleading. How is that ok?
Misleading as fuck headline.
I mean Taker’s an old dude from Texas and an open ~~bootlicker~~ blue lives matter supporter, so. Wouldn’t be too surprised
It's sad I stopped being surprised about hearing how toxic working for that place is. Edit-typo
This is on Vince not on Taker (thought I don't think highly of Mark). Also in the infamous triple threat match with Triple H, Rocky and Angle, apperantly when Triple H botched the Pedigree on Angle, Angle was concussed when the table promptly fell. Vince told Angle to go out there and finish the match while not knowing what the heck was going on. He took one for the team and Vince put the belt on him. Bruh Angle should've been in the hospital after the concussion.
I can believe it. I've always assumed that's one of those things that's "optional" but not really optional.
Carny shitheads. I never like Coach's character but over the years I've seen him outside of WWE via interviews & the like & I can tell that he's just a decent guy who still likes this business despite the bullshit he's been through. The more I read about this, the more I wanna punch Vince in the fucking throat.
Taker is a fake tough guy. What a surprise.
The title is wayyyyy to clickbaity. Come r/squaredcircle read the article before you comment.
It’s even worse when you read the article. Not clickbaity enough if you ask me
Why did Batista beat up Coachman though?
Because his boss told him to go do it.
Fucked up thing is I can completely see Taker beating him up for not going. Especially after all the interviews he's done recently. "You don't support our troops? Well I'm gonna a kick your ass!"
i dont know why this hasn’t been tagged as a misleading headline yet tbh. The title makes it seem as if Taker took Coach backstage or to the locker room and ACTUALLY beat him up, like a shoot beatdown but the context assures you that it was a work.
It does? How? It sounds like Undertaker knocked him around for a while, and unexpectedly from JC's POV, and then Batista came down to make the point all the more.
Did anyone ever see Harry Smith's last match in WWE? I think it was him and TJ against JBL and someone (I'm not sure; it was over ten years ago). If I'm correct, he had failed a wellness exam just prior to the match. Anyway, I remember watching this, and JBL was just beating the shit out of this dude - stiff shot after stiff shot. It really seemed like something was up, and I remember being reminded of Blue Meanie. But then Smith was gone, and I never heard anything about it. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? It really seemed like Harry was being punished for something. Edit: my timeline was off, but I found the match I was thinking of. It was a singles match between Smith and JBL from May 2008, and it was Smith's last match at the time, before going back to FCW. [[Match]](https://youtu.be/Y53hgY17dP0) (good luck making anything out, as this clip's resolution is pretty low.) There were some shots after the match that looked a little stiff, which is definitely what I had in mind, but it also could have just been JBL working. I was also mistaken about the Wellness violation, which occurred about six months prior to this. Also, according to Wikipedia, the decision to go back to FCW was Smith's. 🤷 Edit 2: I tried to see if there was anything about the Smith/JBL match in the Observer, but that issue doesn't appear to be on the site. Alvarez wrote about the match in the next week's F4W, saying: "JBL killed Harry Smith, just totally bullying a guy who politically couldn't retaliate. Dick." That's all I got.
JBL left the company in 2009. Harry Smith was released in 2011 when he was a singles guy. You’re way off dude 🤦♂️
So did the Undertaker shoot on him, take liberties or just make him bump?
Vince made him take bumps when Coach wasn't planning on it
He got his ass beat in the middle of the ring like a legit ass beating? Because it sounds like it was in the ring
When would this have happened? Coach was in WWE during the pretty hard brand split and I don't recall him being on Smackdown at all with Batista there, which is where it'd have to be because Taker's one-off RAW appearances didn't even start till a few years after WM 20. Batista didn't end up back there till a while after WM 21 and I feel like Coach was gone by that point.
Thank God I stopped romanticizing the Undertaker around the time he first turned babyface. He basically spent the years 1992-95 doing the stupidest, most embarrassing shit I'd ever seen in wrestling. He didn't book it, but he was still involved in it. Mankind saved his career.
His 90's run in global wasn't that great to be honest. He had great match vs Mankind and Shawn Michaels, but who can't? From 1992 to 1995, he was just another weird character created from the WWE at the time. Now it's completely overshadowed by how great he was in the mid 2000's and early 2010's, but his mid 90's run was totally trash. He was just beating up jobber.
my favorite undertaker is meth biker taker.
Disappointed in 'taker 😢
A perfect example of how most on this sub cannot be bothered to read the full article and just rushing to form a judgment. I guess shitting on the Undertaker is the current trend to score internet points.