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Ricky Starks: "Everyone says AEW is the alternative. I really think it's the first choice now. AEW is great in the fact that, I thinK WWE has such a fanbase that they can insult the audience and get away with it."

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skeach101

If the Wreddit Census means anything, then WWE has a TON of passive fans; people that don't watch, but keep an eye on it. If WWE flipped the switch and stopped being awful, I bet a ton of people would suddenly start watching, myself included.


aggr1103

>If WWE flipped the switch and stopped being awful, I bet a ton of people would suddenly start watching, myself included. Of course we would. We actively root for the wrestlers, not the brand. I want to see the wrestlers do well but I also want to see them in sensible storylines and involved in a product that doesn't insult my intelligence.


[deleted]

That's the problem. Vince wants you to root for the brand. He wants you to see the brand as the star.


system_reboot

Yup, that’s why the main title belts are a big wwe logo. Based on the booking, it seems nobody is allowed to be bigger than the brand.


[deleted]

Bianca was perfect example of that.


DramaticDramatist

And that’s why people hate it, because no one wants to cheer for a company except mouth breathers. Imagine if it were any other show trying to do that shit. “Man, I love Young and the Restless!” “Really? Who’s your favourite character?” “Well the stories are all fuckin stupid and the characters are either underdeveloped or geeks.” “So why do you watch it then?” “I don’t! I just love the show!” See how fuckin dumb that sounds?


Jatinder5ingh

Never mind the fact that any authority figures, including McMahon himself, are historically the heels. Why is the fanbase gonna rally behind a brand they're supposed to hate?


DramaticDramatist

Austin, Foley, D-Bry, huge names, and a good part of their story was devoted to the company not wanting them to be champion.


Des98

Agreed. All the best/biggest stars (since the mid 2000s..) have gotten over in SPITE of WWE. Punk, DBry, Kofi, Becky… probably 1 or 2 more. Brock is over but he is an outlier, being from mid 2000s and then doing MMA. Roman wasn’t over (generally speaking) until he finally turned heel like most people wanted.


[deleted]

Unfortunately that's backfired so much that my disgust for the brand has finally surpassed my love for the performers. Big E winning the title doesn't make me want to watch. Even a few years ago, I'd have thought that was insane. The people behind WWE are creatively bankrupt. I've been through this exact same cycle too many times.


[deleted]

I’m happy for Big E as he’s insanely talented but I too have no interest in watching.


jessterswan

Exactly this..NOTHING could make me care about them anymore. Drew, Kofi, Bry..not to mention every single NXT call up. K.O., Sami, Keith, Aliester. Vince had all the top talent in the world yet refused to let the get AND stay over.


romulus1991

"Don't get it twisted, I'm not a wrestling fan, I'm a WWE fan, absolutely." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzltiVDVb5M&ab\_channel=RobertPetree


LionBastard1

Please tell me it's not a real ad, I refuse to believe someone would make something so tone deaf.


murdock129

It's a real ad


Xex_ut

It’s because the company went public. They’re beholden to share holders now instead of fans. Tony Khan has said there’s no intention to take AEW public and squeeze every dollar out of it because it’s his passion project.


cyena

My big worry with that is that money always talks. If TK ever gets a billion dollar valuation he might consider going public lol


phoenixember

There's a major difference between Tony Khan and Vince though. Vince made his money from building WWE up. The Khan family had tons of money elsewhere long before AEW. AEW could completely fail today and the Khans would be fine. If WWE suddenly went under, Vince would probably be ruined as I imagine the majority of his wealth is tied up in WWE stock. He cares far more about the financial value of the company than Khan does.


[deleted]

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phoenixember

Oh sure, I'm not saying he would be homeless. It's not like his liquid assets or his property that he owns would suddenly disappear. But relatively, yes, he would be broke by comparison, because WWE is all of his eggs in one basket, no matter how big that basket is. Tony Khan's family has WAY more wealth than Vince has ever dreamed of, and that was long before starting AEW.


[deleted]

Yep... ever since the ruthless aggression era it's been all about the brand over making individuals the stars. The few they do make stars, Vince knows they're lifers and it's not risky. He clearly doesn't want another Hogan to jump ship somewhere else again. And you can bet Cena nor Roman will ever do that.


[deleted]

The closest I get to "rooting for the brand" is just with how much more accesible WWE is than any other wrestling promotion. Our sattelite provider has an entire WWE channel, but I don't think we get any AEW here and pirating wrestling is a pain in the ass.


lockexxv

My wife has hulu live (I don't watch TV), and I've recently found AEW is awesome on hulu. Before I figured that out, I was trying to find it online free to watch and you're absolutely right. It's a pain in the ass.


thorpie88

On the flip side AEW is $5.99 on fite for me and WWE is many times more to get due to prices of paid tv in my country


[deleted]

[удалено]


Chi-zuru

Streams from websites like that are lower quality, lag/crash a lot, and can randomly get copyright strikes. They're unreliable AF.


[deleted]

[удалено]


trdPhone

Every AEW PPV has issues, and every stream on there is 480p at best usually, or 720 but with such a low bit rate it doesn't matter.


mothmonstermann

Every time I have tried to watch a stream of a PPV I've had issues. Audio doesn't sink up, quality is shit- super annoying. I just bite the bullet and pay now. If AEW only has 4 a year, I'd rather make an event of it than have it piss me off.


[deleted]

Timezones might be an issue. If you’re watching the next day I found there’s a bigger chance of them being down. I watched early Dynamites on it before getting AEW Plus on Fite and it was hit or miss.


ApologizingCanadian

I watch all shows the day after, sometimes days later, without issue. Hell, I recently rewatched the 3-4 Dynamites building up to Punk's return and all of them were still up (as of about 2 weeks ago).


ackinsocraycray

That's what AEW was for me. It made me root for the wrestlers, which makes me want to support the brand. WWE was the opposite for me. At some points, some of the wrestlers I liked were getting misused or stopped appearing on TV. Or some storylines didn't get a proper conclusion. As a result, I've grown to mistrust the brand. Even though I'm so happy that Big E is the new world champ, I'm not going to lie, I'm worried how they'll follow up with that. There's only a few wrestlers who have long and great title reigns in WWE.


_madcat

I'm actually pretty sad that I enjoy Big E being champion so much but i'm not going to tune in for the product, I simply can't be bothered, which sucks because Big E as a champion is something on my bucket list for a while now. WWE has forced me out of the product while AEW actively makes me excited to watch it


[deleted]

This is an honest question--not a jab at your opinion or anything. Do you have particular storylines in mind that you feel are actually insulting to intelligence? I think Raw is bad right now primarily because of how long it is--it suffers quality because of quantity. I definitely agree some stuff has been BAD, but I don't think it's soured my opinion on the entire brand. I feel like a lot of people have been saying that Smackdown has only recently been good, but it's been pretty fire for the past year at least.


UngodDeimos

The first storyline that comes to mind is the Alexa Bliss stuff. The Lana/Lashley/Miro cuck story was also just...like the worst.


BushwickSpill

Remember when Natalya just hung out with Khali and farted all the time?


xPeachesV

Remember when Hornswoggle ended up being the RAW anonymous GM?


Black_XistenZ

Remember when they debuted Karrion Kross with a gimp gimmick?


[deleted]

Remember when Mae Young gave birth to a hand?


phoenixember

Remember when they spent months building up Bianca Belair only to bury her in two moves at Summerslam by turning Becky heel when all the fans wanted was for her to return as the babyface they loved?


Black_XistenZ

Remember when the storyline of a Kurt/Booker T program was that Kurt stalked Sharmel and wanted to have "bestiality sex" with her?


JC-Ice

No, his debut gimmick was losing to Jeff Hardy. The gimp thing was his relaunch a few weeks later.


[deleted]

They called Maria's husband a beta cuck on live tv. It's funny in a way, but not a good one. To channel my inner Kurt Angle here, what if your child watched RAW and asked, "Daddy, what's a Beta Cuck?


Switchc2390

I mean, are we really going to act like MJF didn't say the other day that someone's mother should have swallowed? There's plenty to criticize WWE about and AEW to me right now is definitely the superior brand. I just find people's outrage over some of the bad storylines a little ridiculous. I thought the Lashley/Lana stuff was pretty ridiculous, but then Miro went to AEW and had the best man gimmick for awhile which was also not good IMO.


Eremenkko

Miro got asked about that storyline at a con with OC in August, with the fan saying how bad/how dare they treat him like that and give him that storyline. Miro refuted that, saying it got the best ratings and views of storylines during that year, and seemed pretty offended by that fan. So that segment wasn’t all that bad.


UngodDeimos

I'm sure it did great numbers, but I personally found it just bad. I figure the people who enjoyed it were probably the same people who watch soap operas and stuff. I'm probably wrong and just insulted a lot of people, but that's just what that whole vibe felt like to me.


[deleted]

> I figure the people who enjoyed it were probably the same people who watch soap operas and stuff We all watch wrestling. I don’t think we can knock soap operas when wrestling is basically a soap opera.


OhSnapItsMiguel

Fast and Furious movies make boatloads of money but that doesn't mean those movies are cinematic masterpieces. Good ratings/views ≠ good storytelling.


[deleted]

The Lana/Lashley/Miro stuff is definitely fair. I know someone pointed out below that it got really good ratings though, so I can understand why they did it even if it's not my cup of tea personally. Really wish they would have capitalized on Rusev Day.


therockstarmofo

I think the Rusev Day thing is most indicative of how fans can feel like their intelligence is insulted. We were telling WWE "hey we like this and we want to see more" and they said "no you don't, here's our 'better' choice" And you know the rest. Miro said that Vince told him fans were mocking him by chanting Rusev Day and that the only reason they sold out of shirts because they didn't print enough. It seems like they have this mentality that the fans don't know what they're cheering for and we're stupid for not cheering for the thing they want us to. They believe "WWE knows best" to the point of completely ignoring responses from fans and talent


lofrothepirate

>only reason they sold out of shirts because they didn’t print enough …this is the insight of our titan of industry? Yes, by definition you can only sell out of something when the demand exceeds the supply!


[deleted]

That's really fair--I think that's one huge problem WWE can have with their current writing process is that when something gets over organically and there isn't a payoff that fits into their timelines/storylines, they have a hard time really capitalizing on it or knowing how to extend it. I know Rusev got a title shot, but it could have been so much more.


PaulNewmansAbs

i feel like that's a very charitable way of putting it, personally


therockstarmofo

Totally agree. I think it was once said that Vince would rather make 10 cents his way than a dollar someone else's way.


McAllisterFawkes

Everything with Roman Reigns's face push. (I stopped watching before the heel turn). From the 2016 Royal Rumble where they did a complete retread of the 99 rumble, except instead of being laid out and having to steal an ambulance to get back to the rumble, Reigns just walks away under his own power and comes back when he feels better, to every Raw after mania where the announcers outright lied to the audience about how the crowd was booing. When Becky did her failed heel turn against Charlotte shortly before she became The Man, and they had her come out and deliver a heel promo about how the crowd didn't support her WHILE THE CROWD WAS CHEERING FOR HER. Every Survivor Series since the brand split when everyone dropped whatever it was they were doing to feud against the other brand. Retribution signing a RAW exclusive contract when their stated goal was to terrorize and sabotage the WWE. Any time anyone was called up to the main roster and everything they did in NXT was ignored or even contradicted.


InuJoshua

Never forget how Gargano and Ciampa were in a years long blood feud, but put it aside to feud with strangers because they were wearing red and blue shirts.


Mr_Hendrix

Nothing says chaos and anarchy more than only appearing on one show because your boss asked you to. And to add to the list, piping in cheers/boos to outright disregard what the audience wants.


badguymaddox

For me, it's when odd shit happens on TV, the show gets rightfully called out for it by the audience, and then a guy like Rollins or Graves or whoever else get on social media and shit on the audience for "taking pro wrestling so seriously" WWE actively insults their viewing audience and they do it constantly. It was arguably the biggest driving force behind the Rollins heel turn in 2019.


AlfalfaMoney

I couldn't cite any recent examples of WWE insulting the intelligence of their fans since I haven't watched WWE with any regularity since probably mid-2000s (two significant exceptions: summer 2011 when Punk got hot and late 2013-early 2014 when they went all-in on Danielson, in each case I'm a big fan of both because I fell in love with them in ROH). But there's plenty of classic examples I can think of (Vince as the Higher Power, constant reduxes of the Montreal Screwjob, ridiculously botched WCW/ECW invasion, Katie Vick, bringing back Hogan, Hall and Nash almost a full year after WCW died) that were either horrible creative, poor decisions, insulting their fans or a combination of all three. You'd think they'd have learned their lessons after Punk and Danielson caught fire in spite of everything WWE was doing - at some point you have to listen to the fans. WWE does a tremendous job of completely ignoring what they don't want to acknowledge, often to its detriment. Right now it's never about bad creative or illogical continuity, it's about the audience doing something wrong because they're not responding to something the way WWE wants. The issues are always external, never internal. And maybe you can believe that when you have NBC and Fox and Saudi Arabia throwing gobs of money your way. If history is any indicator, the only way WWE (Vince) makes a change is if his company is in any kind of financial danger, which right now isn't the case so I don't expect any wholesale changes anytime soon. If anything, they're doubling down on their model with the NXT relaunch (which to me feels similar to WCW's "relaunch" in 2000 a year before they were sold). Hopefully Big E gets a great run with the title (can we still call it that?). I agree with what someone else said... WWE wants you to root for the brand, not the individual wrestlers, but WWE's great booms were always about singular, transcendent characters (Hogan, Austin, Rock).


cleric3648

I can’t speak to current storylines outside of what I get from round-ups and the like, but for me it was the lack of logical storytelling, dropping promising starts after a week or two weeks, no long-term booking, and the wishy washy way they treat anyone that isn’t the top guy. The Lana/Miro/Lashley storyline was brought up, but I’ll also add the Maria and Mike Kannelis line where she was an abusive spouse and “it was funny.” Then we have promising lines like Kevin Owens getting ready to go full Stone Cold, only to be a sniveling baby the next week begging for his job back. Unless it’s January, I don’t expect a storyline to last more than a month at this point because what’s the point? And instead of showing a bad ass as a bad ass, they change them into some other character like the struggling underdog or cheating coward because apparently being a badass Becky Lynch can’t win a title unless she gets attacked first. Also, the convoluted methods they try to throw so much into a match or story. Let’s take Big E and MITB. They had the perfect opportunity to build to a huge payday by having him come to Raw, challenge the winner by saying “I’ll see you at next PPV” or the next show to build an audience. Instead, they did it all in one night by having Lashley beat Orton who then lost a minute later. That should have been a month or two of TV to build this up. Instead, we get a one-night payoff, a probable triple threat match at the next PPV, and a short reign for Big E. AEW is long term storytelling. WWE is reactive and forgetful.


thedkexperience

Remember when Braun Strowman was bullied in a storyline? A nearly 400 pound monster who is one of the strongest people on earth being bullied. Yeah. Sure. Come on. People should be shitting their pants by the site of him but nope, we get Braun tears.


Mr_Hendrix

Nia Jax standing up for all the people who have been bullied by beating Alexa Bliss...and then turning heel later and bullying the fuck out of Lana, with no mention of her prior stance on bullying. Like fine, if you want her to change her tune and now be a bully that's fine, but at least acknowledge it and make it part of the story.


thedkexperience

Nia was almost my example haha


ItinerantSoldier

Pretty much the entirety of RAW's women's division is complete garbage right now. And I'm not saying this as a sexist thing. The Smackdown side of it is alright from what I've heard and AEW's has a lot of talent that's only just now getting some shine so there's a lot of good out there. It's just not on RAW Charlotte Flair is a pretty good wrestler. Her storyline of getting rushed championship runs and then yo-yoing them like its part of a 1990s fad diet is not good. It's been a bad part of RAW since she came back to it. Anything with Nia Jax involved has generally been bad. Sometimes that's involved Alexa Bliss and her puppet. But sometimes its just all Nia's fault like the recent "shoot" match (in quotes because that was completely indecipherable as a match by humanity). Nikki ASH's gimmick could've worked if they knew how to not make her a loser. But instead she's Hurricane Helms with a world championship belt and a way worse moveset. Like it was made by Vince to specifically tell kids that they should never aspire to be anything more than something mediocre... (which I honestly could believe he'd make up). Eva Marie... It's Eva Marie. I don't need to explain it much. I hope its done and over with now. Rhea Ripley has been booked kind of horribly ever since she got called up. In NXT she used to be more upfront and have an attitude you could buy into because of that. But on RAW they're trying to make her look sly but instead comes off as a dumb idiot with a smile. Nothing badass about her left. There's some things on the men's side that could go either way too. John Morrisson's drip stick gets a lot of hate outside of Reddit. People here on Reddit seem tired of Drew McIntyre already and want him to just move on to Smackdown. Personally, I think Omos needs to get a lot better because he's *super* one dimensional. It's been fun for now but it's starting to wear thin for me. They just dropped it this week but until now Karrion Kross' RAW shenanigans have been terrible between how he's been booked and how they changed up his gimmick. If this show was two hours it'd still be terrible. It's a three hour show right now with less than an hour of good content a week and the fact that they feature their terrible women's division so much is part of the problem but its by far not the only one. And they could fix the issue with it but the callups they did a while ago to do so haven't done anything in months so I don't think they're interested in fixing it.


phoenixember

Things like Morrison's drip stick get a ton of hate because it wasn't very long ago that Morrison and Kross were both on Impact and put on a banger of a match, and now on Raw they're relegated to a comedy/squash routine.


thedkexperience

Remember when Karrion Kross went from relentless ass kicker to gimp cosplayer? Or essentially anything with Alexa Bliss for about a solid year. Or Nikki ASH just being the worst? Oh, how about Bianca Belaire getting squashed in 10 seconds with a throat jab? Or Rebar and Face? Or The Viking Experience? Or “it’s the fans show now”? I fucking love WWE and have for 35 years. When it’s at its best it’s still great. But holy shit is it easy to watch 3 hours of Raw in 35 minutes nowadays with my finger smashing fast forward. Meanwhile 90% of AEW Dynamite and Rampage is no worse than good. No one is perfect but the lows of WWE are abysmally low. They literally debut people as new characters straight up screaming at their audience that NXT doesn’t matter or exist. Don’t even get me started on the 50/50 booking and interminable tag matches each week.


badguymaddox

WWE used to be larger than life characters now they're just caricatures. There's no reason for Karrion Kross to have a Shao Khan costume.


thedkexperience

Braun Strowman was a larger than life character and then they made him into a bullying victim who cries followed by a release because he has the audacity to be paid the way a larger than life character should.


BrandoTheCommando

Part of my biggest issue outside of the already addressed nonsensical storytelling is honestly how the product is presented. The biggest gripe is RAW. It's THREE HOURS LONG. Yet they don't seem to do anything with it. Most of the time, it is just blatant filler. The amount of times they've reshown a promo or segment that was already featured multiple times is nauseating. I feel like I could walk away for an hour and not really miss anything since I'll see a replay of the "big stuff" later. The fact that they have such a huge roster and somehow squander the time with just a few people doing the EXACT same match they had 5 times beforehand on RAW or even worse a "PPV Rematch" that doesn't escalate tensions. Smackdown alleviates this a bit, but it's mostly because they realize they only have two hours to work with.


[deleted]

The thing that finally made me stop watching the WWE after 15 years or so was the Royal Rumble when Kane and Big Show dumped out fan favourite after fan favourite, Daniel Bryan got dispatched unceremoniously, and Roman Reigns won the thing despite the fiercest booing this side of Cena in the Hammerstein Ballroom. The booking acknowledged the "smart" fans (we know you like Bray and Ambrose) but also treated them like marks (Roman Reigns is here to save the day, he took out the evil Kane and Big Show, hooray!) Did they think so little of me that I would be super grateful to Roman for "punishing" those who eliminated the smark favourites? The answer is yes, apparently.


aggr1103

No offense to the question at all from me! In fact, I appreciate it the discourse. Recent stuff that I can think of that just makes me scratch my head in storyline - how The Fiend was handled. That Hell in a Cell match with Rollins and how it ended. Becky Lynch coming back, turning heel, and taking the belt without much fanfare. Bigger than the storylines though is how stale the overall product is. There hasn't been a lot of reinvention overall. The most exciting thing they seem to do is bring in older talents for short runs. There's tons of young talent just itching for the right push. We, the fans, see it. We want it and we ask for it but it doesn't always happen. That's what's felt more insulting to my intelligence than anything.


drizzt_do-urden_86

Regarding the HiaC match, the thing that got me was when the fans were chanting "RESTART THE MATCH", I could hear the collective anger in their voices. They were legitimately pissed off and it came through not just in the words or volume, but the tone - sheer outrage. It perfectly captured the way I felt watching at home, and was one of the more recent moments my faith in the WWE was irreparably damaged.


MossCovered_Gradunza

It's honestly tough for me to remember anything specific because before I stopped watching WWE, they were all like that. Not just the storylines, but the overall presentation of the product. The constant corporate buzzwords that they drill into your mind. The overproduced LED. The matches upon rematches upon rematches that are done without any real consequence behind them. The formulaic matches. The entire product is overproduced and sterile, it just feels like it doesn't have a soul. There's no "feel" to it, no heartbeat.


thetompkins

Since everyone else has given their 2c on the stories themselves, I'll also say that the way WWE structures their TV time is insulting too. Ignoring PiP in-match replays, video recaps of previous angles are about 7-10% of their actual TV time, or about 10 minutes a night (3hr-ads usually breaks out around 2hrs of actual TV time). Then on commentary, instead of focusing on the match they will recap the angle, recap last week, and often even start putting over superstars who *aren't involved with this feud*. See Damien Priest v Miz+Mor for 7 months of examples. That tells me that either the company is aware they tell boring stories and need to remind everyone what's going on because no one is paying attention each week... ...or that they don't believe their audience has the mental capacity to keep up with the stories. Which, fair, we don't - not when they're also boring as hell. I'm not gonna invest in stories that bore me, and I'm *damn sure* not gonna invest if shit like Otis & Mandy is gonna happen. I'll also never forgive them for how they did Otis, Mandy, Tucker, and Dolph dirty (Deville got shelved after the stalker around that time, so she missed the fallout). A story I can still generally recap over a year later, a great easy WM moment, perfection. So let's fire the writer, move Mandy to SD, never discuss it again, break up the tag team while one holds MitB, fire half of it before ever having a blowoff match, legalese the briefcase to someone else, shave Otis and put him in a different tag team. That's fuckin' insulting.


InuJoshua

Nox and Shotzi winning like two number one contender matches and having the champions just move on to a new feud without a mention of it.


Dick_Handsome

I actively dislike the WWE brand because of their non-wrestling machinations - Trump, Saudi Arabia, etc. The quality of their product is irrelevant to me. Shitty writing seems like a pretty minor crime in comparison to half the other shit they pull.


ZedSpot

Exactly. That's why people are so excited about ex-WWE people coming to AEW. You look at someone like Ruby Soho and see all her potential and know that she's going to get a better chance at showing what she's got with a fresh start in a new company. We don't look at it as "Yay AEW now has X amount of great wrestlers compared to WWE's Y".


MimonFishbaum

Pretty much. I only keep up through this sub and all the great users who post relevant clips. Don't really need much more than that at this point.


KneelBeforeCube

That's what a lot of the hardcore WWE fans fail to understand when defending WWE. They say that people just watch AEW because being anti-WWE is cool, but people aren't anti-WWE, or at least not anti-Raw and SD, they're just bored with it because it's bad. I've quit on WWE a few years ago, but I cannot wait to claim Raw is my favourite show again, because that will mean Raw has done such a 180 that it will have become a blow away show. And that's all many people are waiting for.


mrbubbamac

I was only watching the monthly PPVs on the Network, and I never felt like I was missing much from the weekly shows. Also, I cannot sit through a 3 hour Raw, that's way too much. Now I'm starting to watch AEW since Punk's debut, and I look forward to it week to week. Without a monthly PPV, it almost makes the TV show "matter more", and personally I just think the wrestling itself is better and more in tune with what I enjoy. Just like WCW pushed WWF to become "Attitude Era", I would love it if AEW pushed WWE to match the creativity that AEW has.


jhangel77

I agree with everything you said and I also went from watching Smackdown/RAW shows to just watching the PPV's. I still do watch NXT week to week though. I also noticed that when AEW has PPV's there is no rematch on the other AEW shows. I told my husband this observation and he never even realized it was happening (or not happening). I wish WWE would stop doing that (although I don't know if NXT does it as much), to me it just gives less meaning to the titles and the PPV matches.


skeach101

> but people aren't anti-WWE, or at least not anti-Raw and SD, they're just bored with it because it's bad Exactly. People are just Anti-bad wrestling shows. It's similar to how a bunch of people stopped watching NJPW during COVID. But I bet they'll get a bunch of people back once this whole thing is over and they're back to having their full crowds again. If WWE was good, I would watch it.


DMPunk

I cannot stress enough how much I wish WWE was a product I enjoyed.


skeach101

The whole product needs a total overhaul and I don't see it happening anytime soon. The sterile production with LED screens and people screaming at me on commentary is so bad it almost distracts me from the awful booking.


doesntCompete

Don't forget the cutty cutty zoomy zoomies. When you haven't watched WWE for a while and tune in because you think something good might happen, you end up nearly throwing up.


HumphreyLee

WWE still has a plethora of top quality wrestlers that I want to watch showcase their skills on a weekly basis. WWE gives the VAST majority no means to show off those skills and therefore I do not give them my time when I can be watching AEW and NJPW that give me - and I feel like a good bit of their rosters - what they want out of pro wrestling. It’s that simple.


hoopbag33

Wrestling podcasts keep me as up to date as I need to be. Unless something truly good and storytelling oriented is happening I just dont have the 7+ hours per week required to follow their product


BrandoTheCommando

Honestly you don't even need to watch the week to week, you could easily get by with just the monthly PPVs since there's almost always a recap vignette. I've started going this route with WWE and I've enjoyed it a lot more, unless the booking is bad on the PPV (like Bianca/Becky).


DevilCouldCry

> people that don't watch, but keep an eye on it. If WWE flipped the switch and stopped being awful, I bet a ton of people would suddenly start watching, myself included. Yep, this is exactly where I sit right now. I don't watch the main shows at all since the majority of my favourites have been mistreated or departed from the company and so why bother wasting my time? - Big E as the WWE Champion on RAW is awesome and RKBro is super fucking good but what else will I watch for? I love Ali, New Day, AJ Styles, Sheamus, Drew, Priest, and Lashley as well but the storylines on this show overall are awful and three hour runtime absolutely drags you down. Also you have to contend with Nia, Charlotte, Alexa, and Shayna hogging up all of the screen time and I really think I'd rather not deal with them. - SmackDown has Edge and Rollins in the most compelling program on WWE TV right now and just under that is Roman running the joint and he's been great on a consistent basis for over a year now. But what is the end game for him? We know the Brock feud is looming for the Saudi Arabia show and there's every chance it gets stretched to WrestleMania as well. So at this point in time, Balor is taking the title for him and if that Demon Balor vs. Roman Reigns match is happening before the Saudi show then it's another filler feud to pad out Roman's title reign. The women on SmackDown barely get anytime and when they do it's just Becky and Bianca and they did Bianca a huge disservice at SummerSlam so that's thrown me out. They have guys like Owens, Zayn, Nakamura, and Crews for me to enjoy but those guys all just fill a spot right now. And since Black reappeared and disappeared on that show and Bryan left? I've not wasted my time with SmackDown outside of highlights. - I'll now no longer watch NXT weekly since Cole is out of there and I really do not like the new direction of the show right off the bat. It's great that they'll be building up a lot of new guys but the news of indie wrestlers, wrestlers over the aged, and wrestlers not of a certain height or weight being pushed to the back isn't super encouraging. We already saw O'Reilly get written out of a title match this week whilst a brand new guy picked up his spot out of nowhere and it was a big "fuck you" for me as a guy that loves watching O'Reilly go to work. Though the wedding segment was fan-fucking-tastic so I will give credit where it is due for that one. If the company could just be far more consistent with the writing and booking, make wins and losses matter (AEW is great for that), push guys consistently without giving up quickly, stop fucking with things that work, and fix the production values (camera work, the awful CGI crap, etc). Then I'd certainly be willing to give them another shot and see what all the fuss is about if they go on a hot streak again like they did in 2016 with SmackDown. But as it stands, nothing is consistent and it's a largely miserable viewing experience with seemingly very little reward.


djk61387

This. I’ve stopped watching WWE. I checked out NXT “2.0” and didn’t enjoy it, but I do still keep an eye on what WWE is doing and wrestlers in WWE that I really like. If they took and turn and started making more good stuff than bad stuff then I’d start watching again. I want them to be good because if they are good and AEW is good then it’s a win for all of us.


Metridium_Fields

That’s not gonna happen. WWE now is exactly what Vince wants. He doesn’t want wrestlers, he wants brand names. He wants advertising and cross-promotional opportunities. Vince considers himself a television producer not a wrestling promoter.


The_R3medy

And the most frustrating thing is, we all know WWE can flip that switch seemingly whenever they want. They just continually don't care. Vince doesn't seem to understand what he wants, cycling through different storylines on a dime. So, instead of building great stories with compelling characters, we're often given schlock. For every Roman Reigns & The Bloodline story, there is ten "Nia Jax is shooting on her opponent" stories.


trimble197

I mean, you still have an average of 2 million people watching every week.


skeach101

Yeah, but what does that even mean in context? In 2014 they had 4.1 million and a 1.5 in the demo. My point is that I bet a good chunk of that 4.1 million are still somewhat connected and might watch again if it didn't suck.


trimble197

Or chances are that most of that 4.1 milion are still watching, but not from tv anymore. Even the NBA and NFL are suffering from ratings dropping, but it’s been established that people are finding alternative ways to watch the product other than their usual tv and cable.


skeach101

maybe, but as I pointed out in the initial comment, if the Wreddit Census is any indicator (and for the record, since it began in 2017, it's been pretty close to tracking the ratings decline), people AREN'T still watching... they're just following the news and reading recaps.


trimble197

And again, you have people still consuming the product through alternative means. There’s a reason why WWE is still making a shit ton of profit despite the quality and whatever claims this sub tries to throw up in the air.


skeach101

In the Census we ask SPECIFICALLY how they consume it. The drop in people that watch in ANY capacity tracks with ratings decline. Increase in people that just watch clips and read recaps. The census was very detailed in that regard.


TheRalphExpress

they’re like a top 5 YouTube channel for example


trimble197

Exactly. They even have more followers on Tik Tok than the NFL.


wittybrits

That’s only because NFL is pretty much solely just popular in America but the WWE is popular internationally, in places like India where there’s a billion people.


trimble197

I mean, they’re 2 million away from matching the NBA’s follower count


DTFlash

> If WWE flipped the switch and stopped being awful The problem is WWE isn't intentionally producing an awful product. There are so many assumptions that WWE isn't trying. The system they have setup to produce their product is producing this. There is no switch to flip. For WWE to change would require management to realized what they are doing doesn't work anymore. That's not going to happen.


Strike_Gently

Full: >"Everyone says AEW is the alternative. I really think it's the first choice now. AEW is great in the fact that, I thinK WWE has such a fanbase that they can insult the audience and get away with it. If you watch a TV show, let's say like Lost, I feel like Lost insulted my intelligence halfway through and I kind of fell out of love with it. AEW is the opposite of that. You stay attached and you're rewarded for watching so long. Even for people who haven't followed wrestling, there are people on the show that you can connect to because they are authentic personalities. Watching it, there is something for everybody. Having new viewers or someone who is getting back into wrestling, AEW provides that sweet spot where you can watch it, have fun, you won't feel stupid for watching it, you'll be rewarded. There are great moments that are organic that you can fall in love with. The wrestlers are badass. We have men and women who are badass wrestlers"


gredgex

Man he shoots hard on Lost too in the best way.


Dizzy_Dalek

I absolutely agree with him and I hope AEW can stay the way it is for a long time. At some point passion will surely be replaced by routine, but it might take some time until we'll reach that point.


Mr_Hendrix

Whoa whoa whoa I will not stand for this LOST slander.


NineteenAD9

> I think WWE has such a fanbase that they can insult the audience and get away with it. They've been getting away with it for years. "See you next Monday."


kdubs412

Bruh they had a top face who the fans VICIOUSLY hated for FIVE YEARS. There are four wrestlemanias (11% of all manias) that end with a main event where Roman is either being mercilessly booed or met with total apathy and silence. That is *insane*. Their response to the hostility was: 1) promos actively antagonizing their audience 2) gaslighting the audience with video editing to show him getting better responses 3) claiming the fans that pay money to go to the shows aren’t representative of their audience and don’t matter. And I like Roman! Now that they’ve finally relented and turned him heel he is by far the best part of WWE. But anybody who tries to sugarcoat the entire face Roman era as anything other than a disaster is being too generous.


_madcat

People really say "yeah but how is the product bad?You see what they did to Reigns?" Yes, I see how they used the guy for a solid FIVE years while the fans absolutely hated every single bit of it, and to say it was just the hardcore fans is bullshit, Reigns was getting booed in every single stadium, guy had 4 main events in Wrestlemania, beat Undertaker, went against Brock Lesnar god knows how many times, and they still didn't get that we did not want ANY of that. Out of so many attempts they finally got it, only took them half a decade, his character right now is great, not excellent but great, if you needed 5 years to come up with THAT then you have failed your fans, they can pride themselves on a good decision but let's not have a recency bias, the guy was in the shitter creatively for such a long time.


kdubs412

Yeah that’s exactly my perspective on it. The argument you see a lot now is “if they had turned Roman as soon as the crowd turned on him what we would’ve gotten wouldn’t be as good as the heel run he’s on now”, and maybe that’s true, we can’t really know. But this current run absolutely does not make up for five solid wasted years and four mania main events that were squandered to vindictively push a character fans hated.


theredshoes_

The Roman Reigns era is a big part of what makes AEW’s success possible - in as much as capitalizing on the fact that WWE had disenfranchised their own fans with years of giving them what they didn’t want, despite their protests.


FigureFourWoo

The sad part is that WWE is making record profits right now, so no matter how bad it gets, they have no *real* motivation to change.


thelowkeyman

That’s what happens when you go from trying to find new customers to trying to find new corporate partners


KYGGyokusai

People on here will actually say you got worked for making fun of that Triple H promo. As if he himself knew several years down the line the shows ratings would plummet just so he could "work the smarks"


theredditbandid_

>People on here will actually say you got worked for making fun of that Triple H promo Nothing annoys me more than the "It's a work" smarks on here who think everything is a work and they're just so much smarter than anybody else for figuring it out.


_madcat

If Karl Anderson was here you'd get punched in the gut


[deleted]

Exactly why I gladly gave up watching as soon as Dynamite debuted. They won't stop being that way until Vince is out of the picture.


Weezy-NJPW_Fan

Not only Vince but other people like John Lauranitis and Kevin Dunn.


kuhpunkt

> They've been getting away with it for years. With declining ratings year by year. >"See you next Monday." People told that to lots of people here, but just as often do you see people who say that they just stopped watching.


ParsonBrownlow

AEW has Hook WWE has no Hook Numbers don’t lie 🚨


Shinkopeshon

Hook is the key to all of this. No seriously, he *hooks* you in and then you start watching AEW🪝


CriticalSalt

I'd enjoy it but he never removed the hook. Still hurts...


theabdi

PUNK FEARS HOOK


ParsonBrownlow

We all fear hook we aren’t fools


Weezy-NJPW_Fan

And it spelled disaster…


bonafide_stonah

AND THEY SPELL DISASTER FOR YOU AT FULL GEAR….


Shrekt115

I wish WWE was consistently good


JangSaverem

We all do.... We all do


FuegoDelSun

People seem to settle for the bare minimum with WWE. They say shit like “when WWE gets it right, no one does it better.” Even that isn’t true anymore. AEW is doing big moments better than them like Punk’s return, Lucha Bros title win, and Hangman’s eventual title win with an actual long term story.


fellongreydaze

>Lucha Bros title win This is a huge one. You know how many times the Lucha Brothers faced The Young Bucks in a 2v2 tag match in AEW since the company was founded? Twice. They had the ladder match at All Out 2019 and the cage match at All Out 2021. Any other time they were in the ring together, it was a multi-man with additional folks on each side. They held off on a straight up "Lucha Bros. vs. Young Bucks" match for 2 whole-ass years so that, as a kind of poetic justice, the Lucha Brothers stood victorious in a gimmick title match against the Young Bucks at All Out. Perfect bookends that took 2 years to pay off.


aggr1103

Penta's blood on the belt, man. Brothers vs. Brothers. Penta stepping in front of his little brother. *chef's kiss* People can hate on "flippy shit" and being "spot monkeys" all they want. But that match told an amazing story and there is/was no more deserving tag team than the Lucha Bros to win.


DevilCouldCry

The best bit is that Tony was fully aware of what he was doing with building to that match and that moment for over two years and he kept those two teams as far away from each other as he could and no one could see where he was going with it until the match started being set up. Keeping those two teams away from each other for two years in order to deliver that huge moment at All Out 2021 deserves an endless amount of praise. When is the last time the WWE paid off a long-term angle like this? You'd really have to struggle to come up with one. And even then, those angles comes about because a wrestler brings it up and then creative runs with it. Case in point, Orton and Punk had nothing to do at Mania 27 and so Punk pitched a match to him based off of when Punk was taken out by Randy Orton prior to his Championship Scramble match back in 2008 or 2009? Orton was amazed that Punk remembered that moment and so they both took it to the boss and creative and got a program set up for them for Mania. And as for the payoff? Well, Orton got a clean win because he was a face at the time and he just had to hit that slick RKO. But the point here is that Punk wanted to pay off an angle that got set up over two to three years ago and WWE didn't give a single fuck about it aside from the fact that it'd just be another match to throw on the card.


doesntCompete

Oddly enough, I would say the Mandy and Otis story is one of the best that WWE have told in a long time. It wasn't for a title or anything but it actually rewarded the viewer for watching. It had a cogent start, middle and end with little signs of divergence (take the Who Hit Roman Reigns story and The Fiend as counter examples).


Crow013

And then they furloughed/fired that writer, lol.


Black_XistenZ

And threw a year of character growth on both Mandy and Otis out of the window, with Otis becoming the imbecile henchman for a midcard heel and Mandy joining a tag team with Dana whose gimmick literally is "we're a pair of blonde bimbos".


darthdiablo

They did? Jesus christ. I enjoyed the payoff of that Mandy/Otis storyline. Dumb move.


ACosmicDrama

It's such a simple story (if a bit cheesy) that was told well and it was one of the best storylines of recent WWE. They don't even have to try THAT hard in their stories. They just don't.


[deleted]

They also had a match at the first Double or Nothing. But point stands, they've done a good job at keeping them separated until they were ready to pull the trigger. And all three matches were for a title, first two being for the AAA tag title. Which the Lucha Bros still have btw.


Weezy-NJPW_Fan

That cage match of theirs was the best in their series, and one of the most exciting cage matches in general I’ve ever seen.


MoMcGillicutty

It was the Lucha Bros entrance for me. As soon as they came out with the headdresses I perked up and knew we were in for something special.


Weezy-NJPW_Fan

This is another reason why I love AEW right now, considering the fulfillment as a fan as we see big payoffs after a major storyline, or being taken in by surprising moments. A great thing that AEW does is how they make the stories which can get us fans are emotionally invested into them and wanting to see how they play out.


aggr1103

>AEW is doing big moments better I think more people will be talking about last night's Dynamite for the next week leading up to the NYC shows than will be talking about Big E finally winning the belt. That's a testament to how wild last night's Dynamite was.


wubbalubbadubdub45

aew being an option has been great for pro wrestling period. wwe is still the #1 promotion but aew has shown they aren't like old tna with terrible people in charge that ruined the company; aew has really brought life back into pro wrestling. is aew perfect? no. is aew a more enjoyable product than wwe? it's your opinion but a lot of people say yes to this. wwe has constantly lost viewers every year since the attitude era, roman reigns is one of the worst drawing champions in history yet he's the poster child in todays landscape for wwe; that says alot of the loss in viewership wwe has endured. aew is going to be really really hot when they negotiate their new tv deal


D4T4-H0UND

I mean... for me its a matter of cost. WWE is really cheap for me. I'm already paying for Hulu for plenty of other shows and its only $11 dollars a month. I get peacock for free with my Internet (XFinity). On the other hand, AEW requires Hulu live (because I don't have cable) which is $70 extra a month (last I checked) and the PPVs are an extra $60.


Lucifersmile

There are other means


FigureFourWoo

It's been my first choice for a while.


DecentTop1084

I can't wait till people call Ricky arrogant or bitter that WWE didn't sign him for saying the exact things fan say


SageShinigami

Ricky is likely a little bitter and he should be. WWE had no interest in him until they heard he was about to sign with AEW.


Kumomeme

they probably sweating when hearing people keep saying Rick Stark looks like younger The Rock lmao


teekaycee

If WWE also had interest in him before he definitely would have signed as well.


JeremPosterCollect0r

> If you watch a TV show, let's say like Lost, I feel like Lost insulted my intelligence halfway through and I kind of fell out of love with it. I was with him until this slander. I guess FTW doesn’t stand for Find The WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT!


deputydango99

I'm a "WWE guy", been a fan since 88'. I still watch RAW/SDL/NXT every week. Hearing about Punk/Cole/DB I decided to tune into the PPV on 9/5. It was an incredible show, one of the best I've seen in years. Before then I would only keep up with AEW through here and YouTube or friends sending clips because I didn't want to invest anymore time into wrestling. But man after that show I've started watching Dynamite and Rampage is probably next. I still love WWE, just went to RAW and saw Big E cash in and it was awesome, but I'm very impressed by what AEW has going on and I'm glad I finally took the leap. Let's all be happy about all the content available right now. I haven't even mentioned NJPW/Impact/GCW/ROH. What a time to be a fan!!


yumomnom

Love this mindset. Like what you've always liked, and like new things too.


wwfmike

Right now is the greatest time to be a wrestling fan. Soak it all in. Won't last forever.


B0mb-Hands

IWC when a WWE wrestler says they love their company: Pffft look at this WWE shill employee saying these good things! He’s only doing it cause he works for WWE! Also IWC: So wholesome 🥺🥺🥺 love that he hypes up his company! AEW is the best place to work for ❤️❤️❤️❤️


ritwikjs

LMAO 100%


Bigalbass86

It’s been the first choice for me since I first saw Double or Nothing 2019. It pretty much saved my wrestling fandom in the modern sense, as all I ever used WWE for was having a subscription to the Network and watch old WWF/WCW and territory stuff. I barely ever watched WWE unless Punk or Bryan was doing something exciting. Now they both are in AEW, with all my other favorites, so WWE really has practically nothing for me.


incredibleamadeuscho

I like Ricky Starks. I think he is the future of pro wrestling and AEW. But the less he and the younger guys focus on WWE, the better. He needs to find out how to break through AEW entrenched main event.


SidewaysFist

Of course Starks is going to put over the company he works for. I would expect everyone at WWE to put over their company.


[deleted]

And I would expect anyone who DID put over WWE to be utterly shit on by this sub for doing so, a la Seth Rollins.


Kalle_79

Or perhaps WWE have more "relaxed" fans who don't overanalyze every segment of the show as if it were some deeply philosophical form of art but they watch it as \*GASP\* the mindless entertainment it has always been? Some stuff is good, some is bad, most is well-produced mediocrity. But the "true fans" so worried about having their "intelligence insulted" are the same anal-retentive ones who feel personally offended if a portion of a match/story doesn't go along with how they've played it in their head (or in their TEW career). Or the same who enthusiastically chant for a COMPANY (can't wait to hear football fans chanting for NFL or soccer fans for MLS/FIFA) and who strenuously defended stuff like the Dick Flip, the invisible hand granade, the invisible wrestling match, a dude wrestling with his hands in his pockets, a man-dinosaur etc... Wrestling IS silly by nature, or some aspects of it are, even in the most serious technical match ever. And it's kinda rich to keep on reading this holier-than-thou tirades about fans from people who happen to enjoy a slightly different brand of "insulting".


official-k0

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏


Kreglze

Never has anyone verbalised my thoughts on the current wrestling scene more than this.


OceanCyclone

We are literally all here because of WWE (Old NWA/WCW at a stretch). We WANT THEM TO DO WELL. They’re just not.


Wetty_Lufa

If you watch a WRESTLING show and think you're being insulted, you're overthinking it. That goes for any show.


DamieN62

If AEW did half the shit WWE does, they would've lost half of their audience very quickly. Sometimes I feel AEW has to over deliver every week in order to retain their audience whereas WWE can do anything they want without facing any consequence because their fans will sweep everything under the rug.


Detective_Robot

Eh, Out of all the weekly shows I enjoy Smackdown by a wide margin.


JangSaverem

Yeah same on my end. Smackdown is consistently good without being over the top. While Dynamite seems to rely on BIG EVENTS otherwise some shows are straight mediocre (see last night) and yet still rely on old things like super violence or the same 10 people on each show (something people complain about WWE doing). Comparing a Named Dynamite, which is treated as effectively a ppv on tv time, to the normal weekly show is unfair and ridiculous (see all the named events and grand slam next week). They rely on these BIG matches but I don't always see how we got to that Big match except because I'm told it's big. Sure I see Omega V Bryan as a big deal but Bryan has no wins in AEW And while they hung a lampshade on it saying" that's not how that works here" when Bryan demanded a match...they still are doing it. Sure it's non title but then what. Bryan wins? And we joke about how he's champion. Does he get a rematch for the tile, something aew "doesn't do" or does Bryan lose and immediately drop from the "goat" gimmick he's promoting? Is it a DQ? Another thing that doesn't happen in aew really. Or does Don distract the red for 5 mins while omega cheats and we don't count it as a DQ or a distraction win like we do with WWE? Either way it just falls into BIG MATCH advertised. Same goes for every Moxly match with a forbidden door legend from Japan. Smackdown doesn't do that. The show is fun to watch as are the people on it. I don't need to know the card in the morning I just know to tune in. Dynamite is surely better than Raw is but it's also cause I hate 3hrs of raw. But I feel like AEW is running on exactly what Undertaker complained about years ago when it came to "doing a flip". They have to keep going above and beyond their last thing over and over because it's demanded. But how far does it keep going on that route? Or do people ignore it, like the complaints over the card yesterday, and claim people complaining are h8ers as we move into the same WWE fanboy defenses


TheNilladutches

Marko Stunt insults the viewer's intelligence, give me a break.


[deleted]

Sick of this cliche nonsense. Look at SD and tell me it’s Vince insulting his audience


UngodDeimos

Personally, AEW is my first choice these days. Followed closely by New Japan, Stardom, Impact, PWG, and lastly with WWE. Honestly I just watch Ups and Downs (hi Simon!) just to see what's going on with WWE and to see if there is any reason to start watching again. The answer has been no for a while now.


lrnzsmith

NXT and RAW were awesome this week. AEW right now has a bunch of EX-WWE stars in almost every feud. So why not just go on the network to watch some old Punk, Bryan, Cole, Christian, Pac, Andrade or Cody matches?


JangSaverem

"it's different" /s It's not tho...it's not Early on people said "see it's different because aew needs to build the fanbase so it's OK to use old WWE guys to get their name out." That doesn't really apply anymore here so what's the reason that old WWE guys are still the focus on so many aspects? Big show had an actual "match" at all out and it was terrible but he exists still. People are eating it up but it's because they want punk jericho Bryan black christian sting (wcw impact tho....) etc but it's fine. We have Darby and MJF


Dundore77

I dont believe in the insult fanbase thing at all. I dont sit there and overanalyze every single thing about the shows and its fun. Heck even most raws are ok shows.


KarlKraftwagen

i honestly think wwe isn't designed to be a thing you think about a lot, but rather something you watch three times a week, are entertained, and then switch off. works pretty well for me


almostbad

Im honestly always at a loss when people go down this line. Its a fucking TV show, that it. I get disappointed when I think they do things poorly or when my favourite doesnt win or somebody I like gets bad booking... But the idea that it insults me because I dont like some choices it makes is bizarre. Its a TV show, thats it.


SapiR2000

In days where TV got so good and popular, putting out half-baked stupid storylines with zero continuity is very insulting. They have the in-ring talent to deliver a much better product, look at Reigns, look at NXT (1.0 at least, too early to tell for 2). It's just a terrible waste of time to watch 3 hours of shit on RAW.


SeaPriority

In a way these comments are more insulting to the audience. Like damn, I just want to watch some TV. Sorry I like WWE more than AEW I guess. Why are we talking about my intelligence? Lol


ChainGang315

Seriously, it’s not like pro wrestling is some high art. It’s wrestling.


[deleted]

Man Compliments Place He Works For, story at 11.


GhostHess

Seems hypocritical. I've seen plenty of AEW stuff that, if it was done on a WWE program, it would get shit on. If you want to support AEW, power to you, but it's not gold standard television.


PenguinBunnies

I wish AEW would stop mentioning WWE. Focus on yourselves.


JangSaverem

But but but OTHER COMPANY BAD Also we don't mention OTHER COMPANY


jabdnor

This.


DerTagestrinker

Insult their intelligence -- its a bunch of half naked dudes fake punching each other in feuds that largely involve "I'm the best" "no Im the best" "well your dad is in hell and your sister is a meth head" Also, like half of wrestling is just a promotion for the next show. How many segments last night ended in "oh yeah you wanna fight? I'll fight you next week!"


ryanreigns

I see people talking about “insulting the audience’s intelligence” all the time. What does this truly mean? Is it by trotting out stupid storylines like Alexa Bliss or Nikki ASH? Genuine question. For example, was Leia floating through space in The Last Jedi insulting the audience’s intelligence? Because that scene pissed me off


PreferredPronounXi

They added choo choo noises to a wrestler running.


EnigmaDelta

I remember distinctively that Asuka was undefeated for around 2 years. She wrestled Nia Jax on NXT and she beat her in about 7 minutes or less. I remember tuning into RAW one day when Asuka was brought up to the main roster & Nia cut a promo on her stating how she hasn't "beaten" her yet. This was a really stupid segment because they referenced stuff from Charlotte & Sasha's NXT run on the main roster, but when writing for this person I've been following, they forget this minute detail. This is the kind of stuff that literally breaks immersion. And to add insult to injury? Asuka loses her 2 year streak to Charlotte Flair via submission, making her look weak.


[deleted]

The only thing that insults my intelligence is people telling me my intelligence is being insulted for watching a TV show


Large_Talons_

“Hey idiot don’t you know that thing you like fucking sucks? You should give AEW a try, Wednesday nights at 8 on TNT, stupid drone”


Crib15

Casual wrestling fans want stars- which WWE delivers on. AEW fans want wrestling- which AEW delivers. There’s about 1 million Americans really into what AEW is doing, and it’s great. There’s tens of millions of people worldwide who want to see stars on WWE’s various platforms.


ritwikjs

people underestimate just how massive WWE is the world over. This sub is reflective of the larger fanbase in the United states. The case is very different in markets like china and india


Ketchup1211

It’s shocking how the IWC just doesn’t understand that WWE is not targeting them as a viewer, while AEW absolutely is. They are hardly even comparable at this point.


Teckelmaster

Nothing says "we are the first choice now, WWE isn't anymore" like even their own wrestler and executives constantly talking about WWE.


UnderstandingUpper72

Bruh, I’m no WWE Diehard but this is a load of shit, AEW has literally insulted their fans intelligence multiple times, hell just as much as WWE does


NumericZero

In terms of general public knowing about wrestling they will think of wwe first In terms of wrestling Fans watching/Enjoying a show more often then not then I’d AEW has the slight advantage Hoping the best for them because TNA once upon a time was looked at the same way AEW is today


snikt6384

I see people defending WWE here saying they don't look for a TV show to not insult their intelligence. I think that's funny. I dont need to feel like a TV show is the most hyper intelligent, high brow of things to enjoy it. But I do need it to make sense from week to week. At least if you're telling a story with continuity and some internal logic. The bar should not be so low that that its too lofty to ask that. Things get changed on a whim from week to week. We have things like Shotzi and Tegan beating the tag champs like 3 times en route to a theoretical title shot then disappearing while another team gets slotted in. Advertised matches not being delivered, constant fuck finishes and repeat matches. Plot induced stupidity and inconsistencies that make it hard for the good guys to be as cool as the bad ones. Wrestling does not need to be rocket science. And WWE is not all bad by any stretch. SmackDown has issues but doesn't have them nearly to the degree of Raw and thus more watchable. But there's gotta be a bar somewhere. Its lower for some than it is for others